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Alternatively. Keep the movement speed and the endurance as it is. However Survivors do gens slower by 5% for every injured Survivor with MFT. Stacks up to 20%
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You’re thinking from a 1v1 perspective
The game is 1v4.
When everyone starts bringing the same loadout, it becomes a problem
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If you’re nothing without MFT then you shouldn’t have it.
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I bet unrelenting would be nerfed if enough people complained about it.
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Not touching the movement speed aspect of MFT would mean that devs would have to rework old maps because they were not designed for Survivors to run around at a minimum of 103% movement speed almost all the time without any activation condition.
Obviously changing MFT is easier than reworking all of the previous maps.
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Games like this are always a reminder to not play nice for the sake of the other side. Because clearly they did not intend to play nice
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Well deserved nerf. Not much else needed to be said
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Trickster changes were unexpected but welcome.
Garden of busted main building getting toned down and shrunk in size is good
The new changes to MFT is a nerf from a general perspective. However there is potential for it in the form of combinations with Deadhard/OTR/Buckle up + FTP combo.
I would say butchering the perk would be if BHVR completely removed the movement speed boost from the perk but they merely made the activation requirement harder. The perk also now has a change in synergy with exhaustion perks. Previously Survivors would use the 3% to get to safe loops and only use Dead hard when cornered to extend the chase, now it is the opposite. This also means a Survivor getting hit immediately after unhooked would get to use exhaustibles such as Lithe/SB and get the 3% haste before and after being exhausted.
This change also reduces the value from running Resilience + MFT + Hope, which incentivized not healing and is a pretty common combination I see on survivors.
Lithe/SB/ Dead Hard+ Off the Record+ MFT would be a decent perk combination for the average solo queuer who doesnt want to get tunneled immediately. While it won’t stop a fixated tunneler, it will waste a lot of the Killer’s time.
While it is still a nerf, it is not a end of the world unusable nerf like DH or Ruin.
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All the arguments against not punishing people who suicide on hook literally make no sense ranging from Assym special snowflake to people being penalized for leaving will turn many players off and reduce the playerbase
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I don’t see why I need to care for Survivors’ fun at the expense of mine.
I also don’t expect the Killer to not tunnel me when I play Survivor.
MMR doesn’t make sense and devs fixing lobby dodging will not fix it or they would have done it long ago.
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Camping in the endgame is bad play now?
Ridiculous. What else is the Killer supposed to do then?
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I encountered a cheater with instant flashlight blinds who got two flashlight saves off me. Cut to endgame and all the cheater was holding was the default event flashlight with no addons. Not to mention this cheater didn’t scream even within my TR with Ultimate Weapon active (No Calm Spirit endgame).
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7 years and they can’t give individual buttons for different actions or perk activators
QOL at its best
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Tail is still buggy. I’ve hit a Survivor in the chest setting up a turret and the game decides that it isn’t a hit.
Turret hitboxes are still wonky.
That’s your iconic license in a nutshell.
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Waste of time to enter the void as Killer. Survivor gets to waste more time running into the rift and out again since LOS blocker.
Sudden Camera changes (Sadako teleport, Alien coming out of tunnels) is always disorienting and every Killer has to deal with it now.
The Anniversary event was way better.
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MFT does open up the opportunity for stupid plays. I ran an uncloaked Wraith around a log in Yamaoka 3 times and he missed his lunge attack twice because of MFT. This was not some baby Wraith, just your average player who tried not to tunnel.
Stupid plays like this really shouldn’t exist and work.
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I report them and move on. Whether BHVR bothers to look at the report or not is their responsibility. If BHVR doesn’t take action, they’re no different from these toxic survivors by not condoning their actions. They are a company and they have to enforce the culture/environment of the game they created, not the players.
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Team Aura perks would help for that. The Wraith players were probably preparing for the next patch where slugging 2-3 Survivors first before hooking is a better way to solidify pressure.
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Japanese Twitch community has a Semi SWF system where viewers can swf with the streamer based on a rotation system. Said viewers can join a discord voice channel but they are muted and can hear the streamer communicate. This means that it is harder for viewers to rely on communicating their need for heals and it makes more sense to just heal themself if the need arises. This is where Self Care + Botany comes into play. Fewer players also suicide on hook as well because of said system.
The attitude towards camping and tunneling is also much more neutral as compared to the almost hostile attitude that english speaking players tend to have in general against players that employ such tactics. I see more calls from Japanese players on their social media accounts to think of casual Killer players especially when things like AFC/Survivor UI were announced as it leads to more handholding for Survivors.
I may be biased because I spend more time watching/playing/interacting with said community than the English DBD community but I definitely agree with their takes over the people crying in this forum or on twitter about getting camped or tunneled out. At the very least a good portion of the Japanese community will acknowledge that tunneling and camping is a part of the game and if their team lost because of it, it was because they did poorly in chase rather than pointing fingers at the Killer and shouting for nerfs. That outlook is far more positive than complaining about A being too strong and moving on to complain about B after A gets gutted by the devs.
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People complaining about tunneling and the Killer playing unfair despite body blocking after being unhooked is a prime example of wanting their cake and eating it too.
A hook save should always carry some degree of risk, the changes to hook grabs and the upcoming AFC has already reduced some of this risk. I wouldn’t be surprised if those who think that hook saves should be 100% uncontested will proceed to complain about proxy camping next.
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Report then, hope they get banned.
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Sloppy shouldn’t be nerfed. The point of slow heals was to compensate for the gen kick nerfs. The Survivor either takes the time to heal up so they don’t go down, or they do gens injured and risk going down. There is actual risk/reward in such situations.
Knowing devs, their idea of balance is to completely obliterate a perk instead of minor tweaks like reducing the time taken to heal from mangled by 2-3 seconds. That’s not balance, that’s just nerfing whatever is strong.
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And some people thought that MFT was just going to be like Reassurance in pick rate a few months back.
What a joke.
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This kind of behavior will just lower the skill level of Survivors over time if the majority is conditioned to just dc when things don’t go their way.
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Dead by basekit
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It would be pretty amusing after the official statement about them “looking into MFT” and all they did was reduce the haste speed by 1%
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I mainly only play Killers for dailies these days.
When I do play Killer for more than one match, it’s usually Freddy/Sadako and Wraith.
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Windows, MFT/Exhaustion perk, Resilience/Distortion/OTR, Calm Spirit
With AFC coming up soon, players who aren’t using Killers capable of 12 hook games consistently will either play:
1) Hit and Run
2) Proxy Camp
3) Snowball chain reaction with slugging and information perks
The counters against Hit and Run will either consist of early greeding of resources + healing consistently or forego healing and loop really well when caught doing a gen.
For proxy camp, Killers will eventually figure out how far they need to be from the hook. Ultimate weapon would let them be alerted of anyone being stealthy near the hook and get the proxy down or injure said survivor and scare them away, forcing another healthy survivor to come in for the rescue. Calm Spirit and Distortion prevents this.
For snowball chain reaction via slugging. One popular iteration is STBFL, Rapid Brutality and Infectious Fright. Calm Spirit and Distortion will help to confuse the Killer. As DBD is more of a chase meta than stealth, playing stealth can throw off your average Killer especially when they rely on information perks.
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I was under the impression that the Sadako rework was also motivated by Nicolas Cage. It seems kind of coincidental that he brings up Sadako out of all the Killers in DBD and Sadako gets a rework out of the blue at the same time too.
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What your addons and perks apart from jolt OP?
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@NewPlayer100102 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3551290#Comment_3551290
I tried this... A lot of times.
You can literally be looped for near to forever with rapid brutality, around seeming simple objects, like cars.
I want to like this perk, I can't make use of it as it is.
I’ve been running it on Killers who use their power in chase such as Pinhead and Clown. The impact is not huge especially early on in the game, but once you rack up the stacks and the Survivor decides to do a 360 to confuse you, they make no distance. If the Survivors you went up against had MFT/hope etc and you has a low amount of stacks, the combo barely does anything yes.
I think a proper counter would be Genetic Limits if the endurance effect did not activate when exhausted, but that’s a dream for now.
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@CatnipLove said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3553186#Comment_3553186
If you are in an environment that makes you angry on a regular basis you have to either modify your way of thinking, change the environment or remove yourself from it. There's no point in soaking up the toxicity, venting it and then going back to the loop.
You can't change the enviornment. People online are always going to be the worst kind of people to interact with, the best you can do is not contribute to it. So you either adapt your thinking or remove yourself from it. Only those two are realistically achievable.
Humans are not perfect beings, a person who has had a losing streak and a person who just started their first game and lost, which do you think will have a bigger impact mentally?
Different people have different ways of relieving stress, removing themselves from the situation may not necessarily get rid of the frustration accumulated from the loss. There is no rule against using a strong perk or addon combo, so let the player do as they see fit?
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Most of the time these survivors are carried by their perks or their swf on comms. The ignoring part only works if you’re not frustrated. If you are, bottling it up makes it worse, expand your frustration somewhere else. If you need to bring your most sweatiest build in the next game to relieve your frustration, do it.
Those perks and add ons are in the game for a reason so use them.
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@Saiph said:
The level of overreaction from killer OTPs to this thread is honestly embarrassing.
If you watch killer streamers, they don't need tunneling to win the vast majority of their games. In fact, most of them explicitly choose to not tunnel, because it's a stupid cheese strat that everyone knows works disproportionately well against solos and actively contributes to shrinking the playerbase.
Tunneling the weak link doesn't even teach you how to play properly, because it'll make you drop a lot of chases and instead of practicing vs. the good players of your lobby you'll just learn how to beat the weakest one as fast as possible. In contrast, killers who don't tunnel will practice 12 chases per game against all kinds of players and get much better at the game than you. I guess it's satisfying to get free wins at first but it'll raise your MMR to oblivion, then you'll complain about SWFs because suddenly you're facing 4 good players and can't win a single chase and they bodyblock to prevent you from tunneling.
I don't know a single top player who opposes against the DS duration nerf being at least partially reverted, killer or survivor. It's only on these forums that you see people defend tunneling or claim nonsense like "BHVR already nerfed tunneling with basekit BT" (guess what genius, the same update that gave basekit BT, nerfed DS, so it's a straight buff to tunneling because before you could have BT + DS, and now you only have BT).
And yes, it is needed against competitive players, but you are not facing those say more than 1/10 matches.
You come from the perspective that casual solos needs to be brought up so that they will continue to play the game, but what about casual Killers that play the game? They definitely won’t play like the killer streamers you watch.
If they come to the forums asking for changes, what’s your reply going to be to them? Get good? Learn to play? What’s stopping them from quitting DBD or switching to Survivor? Every 4 Survivors needs one Killer to start the game. Do you have confidence that casual players will continue to play Killer if they start having harder and stressful matches?
As for the more experienced Killers who are supposed to be matching with the experienced 4man swf and comp players, what happens when they stop playing Killer too? The game grabs the next best thing aka the casual Killers who take a beating. Sure they may only appear 1 out of 10 games, but someone needs to fill the roster when they do play, but are there enough Killers who can and want to play against them?
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I’m not even sure if devs will do a good job with the rebalancing. Red forest still feels the same overall despite the “rework”
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@[Deleted User] said:
The problem is that murderers are deprived of the right to choose. The rights that I want to remind you were guaranteed even when the game was created.
https://youtu.be/72RK5FO6iMs?si=HB7_aAvAsn58Gfmt
I have always followed the precepts of this wise man. After all, how else can I play with the people who send me to the Garden of Joy.
But these are all minor things. The main question is this. Who will we play slug on? We cannot avoid the update, so we must get together and create the most effective slug method. Doctor, Legion, Artist and Plague already at least look promising for the slug. You just need to be a little creative.
Bubba facecamp got nerfed so Bubba pulls out Knock out from his arsenal.
Even in a team with comms, there will be some delay in communicating their downed location unless the team is very familiar with the map or using clock callouts.
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Run secondary objectives, slug more. Tunnel if you need to. Especially with AFC coming up, snowball builds will probably see more use than the traditional chase - down - hook playstyle
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1) Decide if DBD is a competitive or casual party game first. Talking about balance before deciding on this is moot.
If the game is competitive:
2) Voice chat and Chat wheel for Survivors. Solo Queue is now essentially swf, whether players choose to use it or not is on them.
3) Balance the game based on swf vs Killer.
4) Cosmetic/Rewards from Leaderboard rankings
If the game is casual:
2) Remove SBMM
3) Add an AI director to swing things around if either side gets the advantage very early on.
4) Add other game modes like 2 v 8, get the flag etc
If BHVR wants the best of both worlds then they will just have to go back to slapping band aid fixes on current problems and come up with even more band aid fixes for new problems created from prior band aid fixes.
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Archive challenges exist.
Another reason why Solo Queue can be a trollfest is because someone loaded in with the intention to cleanse totems, open chests or do glyphs over escaping.
Before killing the player for not participating, you might want to look at BHVR for implementing all these silly challenges like take glyph from spot A to B which happens to be across the map.
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Implementing that would lower the skill level of Survivors over time. Veteran players aside, there is lesser motivation to improve in chase or decision making if there are mechanics to bail the player out when they mess up.
People complain about tunneling or camping early on in the game but that doesn’t excuse the fact that they lost their first chase early on as well because they were caught in a bad position/greeded resources/lost a mindgame. I think more people would improve at chase if they played each chase like it was their last. Why else is predropping so strong in comp?
Nonetheless if lowering the overall skill level of Survivors is the goal of the devs then yes it should be implemented.
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@kermit_snacc_choke said:
Bro ive had so many sadako games as a survivor just now, and everytime the sadako is running the strat of:
- spam tp so everyone builds condemn
- run iri tape + comb to prevent carrying a tape safely across the map as she will always know where you are
i died within the first 5 mins each match bcs she would find me and chase me, only to just tp to the nearest tv and chase me again and rinse and repeat until i was fully condemned. and i couldnt do anything cuz she would either just tunnel me out the game if i let her hook me or continue tp spam
all that was needed was to nerf ring drawing to its current state, rather than have this global condemned mechanic + make reikos watch basekit so she actually has a viable anti-loop instead of having to rely on this bs
If you think that previous Sadako with Reiko’s watch basekit and ring drawing nerfed would make her feel better to play, you’re sadly mistaken. The issue with Sadako has always been the tv cooldowns, not anti loop.
Old Sadako was so weak because her tv cooldowns were too long making it hard to keep up constant Condemn pressure. Thankfully the devs noticed this and changed the numbers on her post PTB version. While the current version can be oppressive especially in solo queue, once more people get used to playing against her, it will be much more manegable.
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STBFL + Rapid Brutality lessens the impact if you are a M1 Killer
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I actually hope it’s not Predator, Jason or Slenderman is fine.
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Devs seem to be ok with slugging so I see no reason to not do it. If hook becomes a hassle then slugging 2-3 Survivors before hooking makes more sense
Rapid Brutality + STBFL + Infectious Fright/Ultimate Weapon + Knock Out for M1 Killers
There’s anti slug builds for Survivors so the meta can switch to that it the needed arises.
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I half expect the people being against individual hook states UI for Killers to come out and say that Auras shouldn’t be color customizable because Survivor auras being able to “blend in” with Generator auras should be part of the game.
That might be the reason why Killer has gotten so little over 7 years in the QOL department.
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Is this just a case of finding new Killer perks to complain about?
Plaything and Penti aren’t even picked that often as compared to other perks
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This is the wrong game to be competitive in because the developers can’t make up their mind if they want it to be competitive or casual, leaving it in an ambiguous state.
FPS or fighting games would be a better expression of your competitive nature. I believe you would be happier playing games of those nature than DBD.
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No
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@Icaurs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3550064#Comment_3550064
So the FOV slider is a more serous issue because certain FOV can affect people's motion, and is something that should be addressed but again took how many years for colour blind feature, so.. sit back because it might be awhile.
I don't know why killer's would need induvial hook counters. It doesn't really offer much of a benefit and even it does, you can just keep track. It's a good way of separating experienced players form the inexperienced.
Basekit early gen slowdown is bad. Killer's are in a good spot, they don't need anything to strengthen them. I support the idea of an optional second objective for survivors. This may help slow down matches by rewarding survivors for not focusing on gens completely. Things like glyphs ect.
basekit bt and the anti camp were less quality of life improvements and more gameplay changes made to discourage certain strategies. I can't blame the killer base for this honestly the devs have flip flopped hard on their stance. First it was ok, then it was bad, then it was ok again. They have now decided it is not ok and are now trying to end this strategy. It's different then simple quality of life when actual gameplay is being affected.
As for the HUD.. I mean do you want a new killer Hud? I think the current killer Hud is perfect and personally prefer the old survivor Hud. The new Hud was an attempt to try to create more of a balance between swf and solo q.
Which is again why this post confuses me, killers got an entire new killer roughly a month ago and is also a good one.
Just addressing your point about individual hook counters, it makes it easier to determine who to hook for hook token perks such as NWO and Pain Resonance. Knowing a Survivor is on death hook also means the Killer can hook the Survivor on a normal hook instead of a Scourge hook. This is on a casual level across the board.
On a higher gameplay level, it can be used to track hookstates for 2 survivors. Tunneling only one Survivor can backfire if that Survivor has anti tunnel perks or is good at looping since it gives the other 3 Survivors the freedom to do gens or bodyblock. On the other hand , blindly chasing and hooking anyone the Killer sees is also a recipe for disaster since there are 4 survivors in game for a longer period of time.
One other strategy I’ve seen is focusing hook states exclusively on two Survivor and tunnel either one out of the game depending on convenience. That way the Killer can fallback on the other survivor if the first hooked survivor proves to be hard to catch in chase and the second hooked survivor would be hesitant to go for risky plays especially if they are on death hook.
I have yet to see another other argument for not adding individual hookstates apart from “Killers should remember who they hooked”.
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@Firellius said:
Feels like 95% of the complaints are 'why don't killers get any QoL!?' and the remaining 5% mention an FoV slider.
You can't just cry about deserving something every tire the devs plug another blatant hole in survivor gameplay without bringing at least some suggestions for what it is you'd like to see.
Hook state indicator per Survivor, bonus points if the UI tells me which Survivors I need to hook for hook token perks like NWO and Pain Resonance.
Allowing aura color customization for Gens and Survivors.
Mini directionable bubble for the closest hook so that Killers don’t spend time walking around carrying a survivor before realizing there was a hook behind them all along.
Different button for activating perks or powers like Coup and Myers Tier 3
Allowing for chase music volume to be adjustable.