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To really incentivize going for that 4th Survivor, the effort required/reward needs to be huge. Either debuff the Survivor(Killer instinct reveal, exposed, windows or pallets get destroyed or blocked every 3 vaults etc), or have a high payoff like undoing 1 completed gen.
Like wise, if someone gets tunneled out before all 4 survivors are hooked at least once, the survivors gets 1 completed gen for free or the Killer gets debuffed (Aura is revealed to Survivors for some time/debuff to actions like attack animation/power cooldown/breaking speed/stun duration etc)
The reward from spreading hooks and punishment for tunneling one Survivor out first needs to be substantial or people will just ignore it and push past the minor incentives or restrictions.
People have been arguing that Killers should be properly rewarded for not tunneling apart from just getting a hookstate lol while others have called for Killers to be severely punished for tunneling.
How about both? Implementing a substantial incentive and damaging punishment would give Killer players double the reason to not tunnel and be properly rewarded for spreading hooks
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Drop this suggestion again when the devs decide if DBD should be a competitive or party game.
Their refusal to set a clear direction is the reason why arguments like this will never be resolved. Some people play this game competitively, some don’t. There is no right answer at the moment and everyone is lumped into the same queue.
Tunneling could be a bannable offense, harsher measures could be implemented too. Why are devs just implementing bandaids? Because they don’t want to turn people off from playing Killer when the role distribution isn’t even stable yet.
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A Trapper/Hag stands no chance against a SWF as they can call out the location of traps on comms, so they should only be matched against Solo Queue squads
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Nerfing the perk can’t save your team if your team mate goes down in 10 seconds.
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Default dbd is too dark. I have no desire to strain my eyes just because someone else wants a “fair game” lol.
Implementing this would encourage more people to play blendettes and crouch in tall grass waiting for hatch and wasting everyone’s time.
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Scourge hook spawns are unreliable
If it worked on normal hooks with slightly reduced gen repair debuff, the perk would be golden
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3586435#Comment_3586435
It is not the same. You dont need Gen/Hook, your Hex, other survivors' aura in chase. You vision is only on the chased survivor.
Why is Boil over hook aura annoying? Because you need it when you hook a survivor. Image the perk if they remove the wiggle buff effect but totally removing hook aura. Does it sound fine on killers? Struggle to find hook everytime they want to?
I would like a perk on survivor that if killer hooks them, killers will get Blind status for 30sec.
Thats why I think of this perk, after a hook, most killers needed aura is Gens, being denied
I have played against Residual and it is annoying. If it were to activate on a hook, even with a long cooldown implemented, a 4 man squad running the same perk would shut down a Killer running an Aura reading build. Do you actually think that’s a good thing?
So what would the Killer do in response? Bring more Aura reading perks? No, they would bring gen defense or “unfair” perks that assist in tunneling. Because if the Killer can’t even see the gens because of Blindness, they won’t even know where to patrol let alone find other Survivors. That means more proxy camping and tunneling. Then survivors would cry and scratch their head wondering Killers aren’t bringing information perks and leaving the hook.
That’s why Residual Manifest is tagged to blinds. The Killer can bring lightborn to avoid it, look at walls, bring franklins to disable flashlights etc.
Your perk suggestion would give even the Killers who dont tunnel and leave the hook less incentive to leave because they don’t know where to go.
As for Boil Over, it can be worked around by looking around for hooks before picking or dropping the Survivor and leaving them slugged if no hooks are nearby. Once again, if the aura blocking effect of Boil Over was much more easily applied/common, what would Killer players do? Walk till the Survivor wriggles free? They would leave them slugged, and we’ll get more cries of slugging and for BHVR to implement basekit Unbreakable.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3586415#Comment_3586415
Even with a perk that allow killers to sprint at Blight speed. Doctor is still not as broken as Blight.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/BEG2WJZVIULH/image.png
I would like a perk on survivor that if killer hooks them, killers will get Blind status for 30sec. Then Im sure killers understand how annoying Blindness status is for survivors.
The constant Blindness that deny over 20 survivor' perks is one thing. But the biggest problem is deny the aura from slugged and hooked teammates, those are build-in aura for a reason.
It’s called Residual Manifest. You don’t even need to get hooked to activate it, you just have to blind the Killer. There’s even a guaranteed flashlight from the chest!
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OP is either just baiting, or had a bad match and came to the forums to vent.
Everytime someone drops a sweeping statement like “If the Killer was skilled, they wouldn’t need to tunnel!”, chances are when pressed how specifically the Killer could win without tunneling in various scenarios or maps, they have no proper comeback.
Bonus points if they talk about how they got tunneled asap but makes no mention of how long their chases lasted.
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Would you say the tunneling would be justified if 3 gens were completed by the time you got unhooked?
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Game needs to decide if it wants to cater to a competitive or casual mindset and tune the game accordingly. Devs are trying to appeal to the largest possible population to maximize profits. Sure it’s their game and they can get away with it. But there will be no end to the amount of band aids they have to slap on the game constantly.
A lot of questions and problems can be solved relatively easily once devs pick a side.
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@BenSanderson55 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3586272#Comment_3586272
That is if gens are being done also not an EZ 5 gen chase. A lot depends on the map and map rng. Also if you're not running windows SOLOQ randoms could of dropped pallets not aware of. Doesnt matter how good you are in chase if gens arent getting done, in a deadzone especially when killer is always faster and has basekit deadhard for distance with 3 sec exhaustion AKA lunge.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3586277#Comment_3586277
Rarely do I see a baby killer not get a down, by baby I dont necessarily mean it's there first match ever, just a lot of killers play like babies even if they aren't
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3586278#Comment_3586278
No COMMS bro, even if they do that can easily three gen, and before you say "deja-vu" that doesn't prevent your random teammates from doing the gens they want to do.
Semantics aside, if their strategy pays off like what you are saying, are they really as inexperienced as what you are describing them to be?
@BenSanderson55 said:
I like how no one asks whats preventing baby survivor from looping multiple gens? LMAO Certainly you all seem very sure of yourselves you'd address this too or is it just the same old forum still overrun by killer mains?
A baby survivor could equip Windows and run from pallet to pallet predropping. That strategy is quite popular in comps too. That would waste a lot of the Killer’s time especially if the other 3 Survivors are gen efficient. Naturally if one Survivor employs this strategy but the other 3 Survivors are crouching in the map or cleansing totems, the Killer is not going to lose 3 gens by the first down.
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Baby Killers still need to get the first down in order to slug/tunnel/camp etc
If said Baby Killer was able to get this first down early enough to capitalize on, the Survivor who went down also needs to accept that their misplay led to an early down so that the Killer had time to tunnel/camp. The other Survivors also share the blame for not being more efficient on gens/trying to take chase early if they were more skilled in chase.
It’s not one sided.
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Doesn’t the perk encourage more interaction in the form of letting Killers start chases earlier? If the perk is such an issue, just run Calm Spirit. Aura perks have existed for so long and people have already accepted that running distortion alleviates this issue. I don’t see why the same can’t be done for Screams.
Devs could also remove the debuff speed to cleansing totems/opening chests for Calm Spirit too.
Nowhere to Hide was complained about quite a bit at the start but people have also learnt to play around it and not crouch near gens when the Killer comes.
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They fixed scratch marks for a few patches sometimes back.
Then they broke them again. Literally basekit lightweight on indoors map
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I think the totem should be blocked for the first 30-40 seconds. This prevents situations whereby the totem spawns next to a Survivor while the Killer is on the other side of the map and gets cleansed before the Killer makes their way over to secure the totem.
If there is no dull totem, the gens will just be blocked for the default 30-40 seconds
Otherwise, good idea.
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After reading the comments, it feels like some people think that if the Survivors managed to repair all gens, they deserve a 4 man out too although they don’t say it.
If played poorly, the Killer can easily snowball with 1-2 people going down in order to bodyblock or rescue a Survivor solely because of STBFL. I have comeback from a match solely because I had stbfl and 2 Survivors dive bombed a hooked Survivor.
To some people, they probably think this is unfair because they spent all the time doing gens and looping the Killer the whole game and end up failing to escape because of one perk and altruistic plays. Clearly no one would fault themselves for Altruistic plays so the perk gets the blame.
I wouldn’t be surprised if people also dislike the perk because it has the same potential as No One Escapes Death but can be used throughout the match.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3584790#Comment_3584790
You check profiles?
it’s a habit from back when cheaters were more rampant.
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Sounds like you shouldn’t be playing Survivor, or solo queue at the very least.
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If STBFL made these Killers weaker, people would stop running the perk over time.
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I’ve come across a 4 man who ignored all generators and cleansed 4 out of 5 dull totems at the start of the game
I was playing Plague with Corrupt, Plaything, Pentimento and Deadlock.
I ended up getting no value out of Plaything because there were hardly any dull totems left when I got to hooking them.
Games like this really make you question if it was pure coincidence that the team decided to cleanse totems first over touching gens or they knew my build and decided to counter Plaything by cleansing the totems first.
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P100s is one thing.
It’s another to get a 6k hour Survivor in Lobby when I’m just doing a daily on my less experienced Killers. I’m just here to do a daily and log out on some days.
Not to mention some P100s I’ve encountered turned out to be cheaters (P100 with 50 hours played).
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Too much ways for Survivors to counterplay Hux.
1) EMPs (There needs to be a hard cap on the amount of EMPs or make it only capable of disabling one infection and one pod maximum per use)
2) LOS blockers where even one pixel of foilage can block slipstream via his pods
3) Survivor getting a visual cue that they are being locked on so they can find cover behind one pixel (Why does this even exist?)
Either one of the above needs to be tuned down.
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Or maybe the actual reality is that solo queue will always be the lowest on the pecking order.
Devs have access to the statistics.
They know how many people play solo queue, how many people duo, trio, 4 stack. They know the win rate for these groups individually as compared to solo queue. They know how much potential revenue each group brings to the company.
Maybe BHVR recognizes that the overall win rate for solo queue needs to be lower to compensate for the win rate of swf. Maybe their numbers show that swf brings more revenue to the game than solo queue so pleasing swf is a more profitable venture. Hence it feels like devs are dragging their feet on closing this gap.
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Stbfl taps on team play. Kinda like how the Obsession should be doing the healing and unhooking when dying light is in play.
Maybe giving the Obsession a notification that the Killer has stbfl like dying light and Dissolution would encourage counterplay rather than just taking the lazy way out and nerf the numbers?
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SB and Lithe is fine.
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The combo is still overtuned regardless of the state of the game.
Either an Endurance duration nerf or status debuffs would be warranted.
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Cost benefit analysis.
Complex Killers should get more benefit when executed correctly.
Larry has complexity but the benefits from using him aren’t anything to boast about
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Until BHVR makes hooks over kills more beneficial, there isn’t a point to not tunnel when the need arises.
Also I’ll say it again but complaining about Alien Instinct is just lol
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I stopped reading at Alien Instinct, Jolt, FTD and Pain reso being toxic
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I think giving information like basekit Kindred to solo queue players is fine. Not sure why swf players would have to throw a fit if they don’t get basekit implementations like this. If anything, I would say the current HUD could also be removed for swf but people would cry foul over that.
In order for solo queue to be closer to swf, solo queue needs to get some changes that swf does not have access to. Giving both groups the same thing will still result in the disparity between both groups.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3581804#Comment_3581804
I’d like to point out that before MFT survivors had the weakened healing and still weren’t healing. MFT wasn’t the cause. Survivors prioritized gens because healing was nerfed & it’s just way smarter to push through gens than waste time trying to heal.
Yes, confident Survivors would continue to push gens because they know they could loop the Killer for a bit even if they got caught.
Survivors less confident in chase had a bit of boost to get to a pallet or window with MFT + Resilience, not to mention the boost to gen repair, which incentivized not healing. Once these Survivors start losing more chases because of greeding gens, they will opt to heal over rushing gens.
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Playing Killers that give side objectives to Survivors helps a bit like Sadako, Pinhead, Wesker etc.
The intended slowdown that devs had for Killers was spreading injuries and Survivors spending time to heal each other. This was somewhat nullified by MFT + Resilience, meaning Survivors ignored healing to do gens faster.
With the upcoming MFT changes. Survivors who are less confident about their chase capability without the 3% unconditional haste boost will probably opt to heal before doing gens.
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I would say Sadako and Xeno, since it can get slightly disorienting after coming out of a tv/tunnel
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@CrimsonMothKing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3581133#Comment_3581133
I see where you're coming from, but one thing you need to remember, is that you still have Nemesis. If C becomes the Obsession before you hook B. C is revealed and oblivious, and once you hook B, is also exposed.
I agree with Remember Me, I was just trying to think of perks that could synergise, someone said that Rancor could be good.
But yeah, just having this build where you are constantly after a new target could be really fun, especially as you gain a bonus for hooking the target and getting a new one.
Fair Point. With that being said though, if you could end chases fast enough or find the new Obsession before Furtive Chase runs out, I think Friends, Furtive Chase and a duo of Pain Resonance/No Way Out or even Grim Embrace might be a well balanced loadout on various non stealth Killers.
Since the random switching of Obsession will incentivize the Killer to go for someone regardless of Hook stages, the game will eventually reach a point where the Killer will have hooked 3 or all 4 Survivors at least once. Pain Resonance and No Way Out doesn’t need much justification as they are solid perks. I included Grim Embrace because of the 6 second aura reading on the Obsession.
If devs really wanted to push the game towards the direction of getting hooks on every Survivor at least once before killing off someone, it would be nice if they coded Friends to assign the new Obsession status to the Survivor with the least hook states.
My issue with hook token related perks has always been a lack of clear indication of who you have or haven’t hooked. Little changes like this would encourage some players to go for more chases as there is incentive and direction for doing so.
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i had similar thoughts on the potential synergy when I saw the perk. The only issue I have with the combo is:
1) You chase and hook A who is the Obsession.
2) B becomes the Obsession because of Friends Perk. You chase B
3) C unhooks A. C becomes the Obsession becomes of Furtive Chase. If you have not downed and hooked B yet, after you do so, Friends will tell you where C is but you get no Furtive Chase value from hooking B.
The minor annoyance is that you will only get value from Furtive Chase only every two hooks unless you can down and hook B before A gets unhooked by C. Otherwise, it is a good Obsession focused combo IMO
Remember Me can be a double edged sword. Because of the constant Obsession switching, you might end up letting the Obsession get access to the exit gates for free and they are not affected by the gate opening penalty.
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@MoNosEmpire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3580672#Comment_3580672
I mean, I wanted to keep it short and to the point without wasting time since I said at the start of this topic I wanted the subject to be kept to the point. I used to be #167 wraith in the world for apex, I see things the average gamer doesn't, I shouldn't need to elaborate a third time. Lets just leave it at that mate.
I might look to you if we were discussing Wraith in Apex, but I think I would rather listen to the opinions of Nurse mains when it comes to tweaking Nurse lol.
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Let me guess.
MFT enjoyer?
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@JaxHampster said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3580698#Comment_3580698
I asked them throughout a few months when I first heard of him l. Ice seen at least 1000 through various social media's saying hoe disappointed they are of thr new chapter
You found 1000 posts being unhappy about the new chapter being Chucky within a day?
Your social media scrolling skills must be legendary with a L
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@JPLongstreet said:
They've made it very clear they wish all players in either role to run whatever load outs they want to. So I don't ever see them limiting perks, items, add-ons etc. or any crazy tourney limitations at all. So that's out imo.
Straight up removing SWF is also not an option, as it would definitely wreak queue times and likely kill off this game. So nope here too.
They seem to be targeting MMR, and making changes to ensure their system has its best chance to make fair-ish trials. With the recent tests they're looking at the lobbies themselves and when effects of lobby shopping.
Perhaps removing pre-game prestiges needs to happen? Perhaps what is seen and clickable in the lobbies needs to change? The basic idea I believe is to ensure the relative skill levels of the survs (solos or not) get matched with a killer who can handle them. Going after the dodging makes sense to help with that.
That is with the assumption that the discrepancy in fair matchmaking is solely due to lobby dodging.
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In game chat restricted to Survivors is also fine, the option to mute etc could also be implemented.
One main advantage that swf has is comms. Give that to Solo queue. If players don’t want to use it, that’s on them. As long as SWF and Solo Queue have different game experiences, this game cannot be balanced to satisfy both.
Currently SWF, Killer and Solo Queue all make up one triangle. Buffing solo queue will indirectly still buff swf. Nerfing swf is also out of the question as shared by many people here. Giving ingame comms to Surv means that devs can treat Survivor as a whole instead of Solo Queue and SWF when balancing the game.
Expecting devs to somehow put up non voice implementations that will put solo queue on similar footing with swf is not impossible, but it takes a lot of fine tuning and tweaking. BHVR’s track record of balancing stuff doesn’t give reassurance that they are able to pull this off. Giving comms to all Survivors is much easier
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Even if said swf are your casual teams, anyone with a bit of game knowledge can call out things like Spirit Fury, Coup, Bamboozle. Thus instead of catching each survivor “off guard” with those perks to get a hit, the Killer only catches one person with Spirit Fury and the rest of the players pre drop for the rest of the game. As much as some people like to parrot the liner about most swf being casual, that doesn’t mean said swf are players with limited game knowledge.
Small things like this also play a part in influencing the outcome of a match.
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That is a way to balance the game for Survivors as one entity vs Killer instead of Solo Queue and Swf vs Killer.
However people don’t like that too.
People want things to be better but they also don’t want the status quo to change.
So the alternative is lobby dodging.
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i would argue that if current MFT is fine, then pre nerf Thanataphobia should be brought back. If getting injured justifies a permanent 3% speed boost then a high gen repair speed decrease for spreading injuries is well deserved.
While the Blindness on Ultimate Weapon could be removed, the tracking merely informs the Killer of where a Survivor is so that the chase can begin. If the Survivor isn’t good at chase, then obviously they are going to call Ultimate Weapon overpowered because they are relying on stealth to play the game. Is hiding and minimizing interaction with the Killer really that fun especially in 2023 DBD?
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10-12 hook games without tunneling happen if the Survivors are less experienced/weaker players than the Killer. However when the Survivors are much more closer in terms of Skill level, there is lesser room for mistakes as Killer. An unfavorable map/swf comms/bnp tollboxes or syptic medkits are more likely to sway the game in the Survivors’ favor unless someone messes up really bad.
For example, I do double/triple vaults on Shack window occasionally as Killer. If I see a Killer do that when I play Survivor, I know I would just leave shack altogether. That doesn’t make me a more experienced player than the Killer, I have a similar knowledge/experience level as them which led to me buying more time in chase.
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That’s why I screen steam profiles before a game. Anyone who has been banned before = leave lobby
If I can’t trust the game to be cheater free, I’ll do my own filtering to minimize the amount of potential cheaters I get.
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@Astel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3577808#Comment_3577808
I momentarily thought of the hag
Maybe some people will still call a power-less addon-less Hag unfun because she can mindgame some loops due to her height.
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People don’t want Killer with greater diversity.
They want a 32m TR 110ms Killer with no power that they can loop through pallet after pallet.
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You need to pick your words better OP.
Talking down to others by saying they should be “thankful” for being able to catch Survivors might work if you were some established authority on dbd and even then you would still sound condescending.
Also 2023 DBD isn’t perfect by any means. The moment game developers think they’ve perfected their game and can rest on their laurels is the moment the game starts becoming stagnant. DBD hasn’t even reached a point where devs can afford to be complacent. While the game has gotten better since its earlier iterations, it can be better. A good chunk of the active playerbase probably weren’t even around to experience how “unplayable” it was back then.