Xernoton
Xernoton
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Overtuned mostly implies overpowered. However, I use the term overtuned to describe something that is only off in numbers and not by design.
For example I consider Blight as overtuned but not broken by design while I see Nurse as straight up overpowered. I can't see a way for her to keep her power the way it is and only modify numbers as a way to balance her.
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@Dream_Whisper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3498361#Comment_3498361
In a way, I agree... but in a another... I think they need one more hand holding, but not in a form of a perk as a basekit.
I would simply just add a communication wheel, just so I can send a message to my teammates about what I am doing and what they need to be doing. It can be simple pre recorded messages like "Hey, I am doing a Genator!" "The Killer is chasing me, go work on Generators or go save the teammate on hook!" Stuff like that.
Personal, I don't like good swfs stacking meta perks myself; but I also despise bad teammates whom are not pulling their weight and dragging everyone in the game down by playing badly or rage quiting on first down/hook.
That is something that I completely agree with. And I don't consider that hand holding but a tool. It's not gonna do anything for you but you have to use it in order to raise your efficiency. I think that could really improve the solo queue experience a bit. And remind some people that they do not play a 1v1.
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Just say what you mean: "Nerf killers, please."
That is what it will come down to. They will not go the route you suggested because that would be highly abusable and problematic on some maps.
It will come eventually but until then you have a guaranteed exchange when someone comes to rescue you. As long as it's not a Bubba...
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I'm suprised they didn't kill DH to be honest. It took them 6 years to nerf it and then another 6 months to finally get it out of the meta.
And it will not return. The devs aren't stupid. They wouldn't make such a monumental mistake. DH is still a fine perk. It's just not the deciding factor of the killer's first chase anymore.
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I would be happier, if instead of 3 bad abilities (teleport, snares and pallets) he had 1 decent ability.
But that is not going to happen. So yeah, why not? He is so pathetic that it really couldn't hurt.
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@[Deleted User] said:
More content...just what this game needs 😮💨
Honestly the game does need it. We are still in a bit of pickle with the whole Wesker situation...
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@ThiccClaud said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3498880#Comment_3498880
Just kill the bot first lol
In other words: "Tunnel the bot."
Great suggestion. I bet survivors will really appreciate that. They didn't just get screwed by their own team mate but now the killer gets in on the fun.
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I have denied quite a few glyphs on accident. When you get close to the survivor you don't think about why you got so close but you hit them. Because you're on the clock and you have to save time where you can.
And when you realize that that survivor actually did a glyph it's already too late. Basically you swing first and think later. It's nothing personal, just unlucky.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3498361#Comment_3498361
Survivors have enough hand holding in the game now and there are perks that help with solo queue issues specifically.
yes but you should not need equip perks to play the survivor role. that is the issue. still think global bond would be good change. The UI does help for some stuff but seeing teammate aura is just better.
It's not a problem with the game. You don't need to run these perks. They just happen to help with these specific issues. If I could be bothered to keep track of my fellow survivors I wouldn't use Bond myself. But I can't. So I'll stick with it.
Global Bond as a base kit addition is an absolutely atrocious idea. Because it also tells you what ressources are depleted, the killer's location and what gens are worked on. I use a build with 2 perks only for that and the value I get out of it is insanse. Bond + Open Handed + Windows of Opportunity is a great combination. Try it.
You cannot have that much information at 0 cost. The game should not play itself. You should still have to keep track of some things yourself. This would be even worse than SWFs. Because SWFs can only communicate approximate positions and at least they have to do something to spread that information as opposed to the game just handing it to them.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3498972#Comment_3498972
It's worth mentioning that we're talking about an extreme minority of the killer roster if we're talking about M1 killers with zero tools for a safe tile. Almost every killer on the roster has a power that can directly lead to a hit or force the pallet down quickly. These scenarios often get discussed as if every killer on the roster outside of Nurse is Myers or Legion.
Oh definitely. But Sadako, Myers, Pig, Trapper (you cannot trap everything, you are not Hag), Legion, Freddy (technically has his snares but they're mostly useless) and to a degree Oni and Ghostface exist. With all of them you'll find yourself in positions where you don't have anything to help you in chase eventually. And that's where the problems begin.
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What about Red Forest? Or Toba Landing? From a visual point, I think both are great.
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@Sharby said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3498942#Comment_3498942
If the Survivor knows how to do checkspots properly then yes they are playing well? There are a ton of people that lose mindgames at shack. Its definitely not common at all for a survivor to be good at mindgames.
There are also plenty of tools an M1 killer can use to shut down a tile, Bamboozle is one of them. Proper Red Stain management also comes into play as well. Respectfully, saying there's nothing you can do is just an admission of being lacking.
Bruteforcing through a tile should always be a last resort unless its done strategically I.E, you know the Survivor panic drops a lot so you force them into god pallet loops to get rid of them early. But that has nothing to do with losing mindgames and everything to do with playing the map intelligently, knowing when it call it quits on a chase is part of being a good killer player. If you're playing vs someone really good you shouldn't be chasing at shack anyways unless its in your 3-gen.
Red stain management is just a different term for mind games. If it doesn't work, then it doesn't work. And there are a lot of survivors that know how to play safe loops. They are playing well but really at that point the killer themself cannot play "good". Because they don't have an option to play good. Other than, again, brute forcing the loop.
Killers cannot move through walls or fly (other than Nurse of course). If the killer can be seen, then the red stain is does nothing and mind gaming solely relies on the survivor being bad. Again, shack is a great example for that. As well as many tiles on the Azarov's maps.
Of course perks like Bamboozle exist but keep in mind that most M1 killers rely on STBFL to keep chases short (or suffer from 15+ seconds of Shift + W after a hit) and the killer's perk slots are highly limited. I think we can all agree that perks shouldn't be band aid fixes for poor game design. Otherwise, why is BT base kit then?
And really, how is Bamboozle any different from brute forcing the loop, which you said should be a last resort. You know there is no way to outplay the loop, so you shut it down and move chase to the next loop.
Saying the killer shouldn't chase a good survivor in a safe loop is basically the equivalent of saying the killer shouldn't chase too much on survivor sided maps when they face good survivors. Which only leaves camping as an alternative...
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And what do you expect them to do about this? Everything I can come up with is also going to reward survivors for mindless gen rush. Which should not happen.
Don't get me wrong, I hate 3 genning killers as much as the next person but 3 gens that are created by the survivors should not be nerfed.
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@Sharby said:
Are you supposed to be able to do something against someone outplaying you at every turn?
Interesting take. But can you really call it outplaying, if the survivor simply knows where to wait and watch out? Because at that point there is no right play for the average M1 killer other than brute forcing and hoping the others will mess up.
There are tiles that cannot be mind gamed. Shack is one great example. In the hands of someone capable the killer has no chance to outplay the survivor. Mainly because the killer can be seen everywhere and there is a literal safe spot for survivors to wait at. That has nothing to do with the killer not using the "right" mind game. Because there is none.
There are a lot of loops in the game where your best play as killer is to just brute force your way through the ressources until you can eventually get a hit.
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Wow. Someone is playing at high MMR.
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Freddy and Myers, please!
Myers is not the unstoppable killing machine we all know and love from the movies but instead he is slow and the only killer in the game that can run out of his power.
Freddy is depressing. Every time a Freddy is teabagged, somewhere in this world a puppy dies.
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It doesn't need to be an entirely different game mode. If they ever decided to add that option I'd use it either way.
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Hag, Pig, Sadako, Freddy. As far as I know they are all more or less the same height. Maybe Pig and Freddy are a little taller.
I wouldn't play a killer with a POV similar to Victor's. You can hardly see anything when you are that small and corn blindness is a thing...
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Solo queue is not the problem. The problem is survivors that won't pull their weight. And you can't fix that no matter how you buff solo survivors. You only break the game in the process by making good groups much stronger and leaving bad groups in the dust.
That baby Claudette, that is busy self-caring in her corner is not going to be a better team mate, if you give her access to better perks. And if she miraculously does, isn't that kind of unfair?
Survivors have enough hand holding in the game now and there are perks that help with solo queue issues specifically.
When you try to help solo queue, where do you draw the line? Is a 2 people SWF and 2 solos still considered solo queue? What about 3 people in a SWF and 1 solo? Or 2 duos? What if they don't communicate via Discord?
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The red stain is fine as is. It's part of the skill ceiling for killers to hide it effectively and use it to mind game.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3498236#Comment_3498236
Unfortunately that's not gonna be possible for everyone. My little switch ain't recording a thing, lol.
I mean technically you do have a record function on the switch too. It's just not going to be sufficient posting a bunch 30 seconds clips.
Anyways, I play on pc and I have never recorded my games. And to be frank, that shouldn't be expected. BHVR could track these things ingame (they even do it for skillchecks etc.) but for some reason they still don't. After 7 years.
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Yeah, I think I'll pass. I played her like 5 times for archives and I'll happily ignore this killer's existence until her inevitable rework. To me she was neither fun nor interesting. It felt like I could just turn off my brain and play on autopilot and while that might be fun and interesting for some, I was bored to hell.
Also, I get triggered by the sound of her drones. Don't know why but for some reason this sound alone is enough for me to despise her.
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@DavidHypnos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3497188#Comment_3497188
Getting hit with SB either happens at the beginning before you get distance, if you run into the killer, or try to loop and it doesn’t work out. If everyone moved at 6 m/s they’d never have to fear the killer.
Trust me, there are survivors that would still manage to get hit. I have seen weirder things happen.
I even witnessed a blatant cheater dying.
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And make the problem even worse in the process. Bots aren't a substitute for real players.
How about instead of allowing free ways out of the match we actually hold players acountable for queueing up? I can only repeat myself but if you don't want to play the game, then don't play the game.
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Knight and Dull Merchant suffer from entirely different things than Singularity. Singularity is supposedly quite strong. Although its skill floor is so high that you might as well play a different killer and get better results overall. Even Nurse is easier than that killer.
But overall you aren't wrong. BHVR missed the mark yet again. I'd hope for the next chapter but after seeing what they did with Sadako I'm less than optimistic.
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Her name begins with Dull and ends with Merchant.
Sometimes I wish I could just face camp her instead of the survivors...
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@DavidHypnos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3496830#Comment_3496830
If survivors moved at 150% base speed Claudette wouldn’t need to heal, Dwight wouldn’t need to hide, and Meg wouldn’t get hooked. You gotta chill with the hyperbole there.
Anyway, while I do see a lot of stupid and selfish plays in solo queue you have to remember that everyone makes mistakes and in this game mistakes hurt way more on the survivor side. The biggest issue people have in solo is communication. Personally, I don’t think solo queue is as bad as everyone says it is - most instances that are truly awful are indeed due to very inexperienced players or people who are either just miserable or make really bad decisions. That being said, it does get the short end of the stick when it comes to balance changes which, overall, isn’t very fair given that the majority of the player base is solo queue. SWF might be above killer, but solo queue is far below it.
Are you telling me you have never seen anyone get hit with an active SB? These survivors do exist (mostly in low MMR but also in mid and supposedly high MMR) And no matter how broken survivors are, that Dwight will still hide in lockers because he thinks the killer is scary and might find him otherwise. Decent survivors don't make these kinds of mistakes.
That's why I called it a skill issue. Decent survivors are more likely going to act like that Meg or Nea. And both can ruin an otherwise perfectly balanced match completely on their own. That's why you can't fix this problem. One person plays like it's a single player game and doesn't pull their weight and suddenly the game goes south.
Most solo players don't seem to understand that they are part of a team. That means they'll win either as a team or not at all. Communication is not needed to win in this game as long as the overall coordination works. And there are perks for that. Like Bond. I run it in all my solo queue matches and it is absolutely worth the perk slot. You see the locations of other survivors, get info on the killer's location thanks to the HUD, know which gens are being worked on and can break a 3 gen before it becomes an issue. Combine that with Open Handed, Windows of Opportunity and an exhaustion perk of your choice and you have a pretty good build that solves most issues you might encounter in solo queue and a pretty good chasing build too.
The only way to balance solo queue a bit better is to add something like Bond to the survivors' base kit. But even then you will see people running the killer into their team mates on purpose. No matter what you do, solo queue will remain in a bad state. Because for once this is not the game's fault but the players'. BHVR can't balance the game for inexperienced players. Because that makes experienced players almost invulnerable.
The hook grab change has been out for only a few days and I already see some people rush the hook to get their Deliverance. Something like that will not happen with inexperienced players but it does happen with those that are actually familiar with how the game works.
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Solo queue is not that bad. Most bad things in solo queue happen due to either a skill issue or players being jerks. You cannot fix bad players.
Even if survivors moved at 150% base speed, had Unbreakable, DH, old SB and DS base kit, as well as 200 pallets and windows per map that wouldn't stop the Claudette from self-caring in a corner, the Dwight from hiding in a locker all game, Nea being too busy teabagging the killer to do a gen and the Meg that is about to hook suicide because the killer dared to mindgame her. And if they somehow managed to buff survivors to a point where solos can play that stupid and reckless and still win, imagine what that would do to even somewhat ok-ish groups.
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Steam. I always play with crossplay on so I get easier games because all console players are bad at the game.
Just kidding. I get faster matches that way and don't really care about which platform others play on.
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No one can tell you why that killer camped at 3 gens. But I can tell you why a killer would camp. Because it's their best play in many situations.
When a killer camps they can guarantee themself a hook stage in less than 60 seconds. M1 killers are lucky, if they can end their chases in under 40 seconds against survivors that do the bare minimum of dropping some pallets and running in a straight line. It's even worse when survivors are actually good in chase. Add in the time for map traversal, picking up the survivor and hooking them and the fact that the killer than gets a hook stage on a different survivor and you see why camping is the more appealing option.
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If you are going to cleanse, do it in a way that is inconvenient to her. Some fountains are on the edge of the map and for the Plague to go there to get her power it, she wastes a lot of time.
There is also another option that might be hard in solo queue though. Overcleasing works pretty well too. Especially when you know she can't infect you immediately again.
Otherwise it is too risky to cleanse against her. You might be healthy after that but it won't take her long to infect you again and your team mates might get caught with Corrupt Purge while they are broken, which always results in quick downs.
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3492327#Comment_3492327
Remember console cannot use M&K it's not supported for DBD. So no flicking, and also the camera turns slower than PC, even at 100% sensitivity on the controller.
I know but this is more a problem with the game than it is with Blight. Flicks are not a tech. The fact that you can't do it so well on console doesn't change that.
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@EmmaFrostyEyes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3490877#Comment_3490877
Freddy needs buffs thats the issue. Adrenaline is fine
You aren't completely wrong but even if they buffed him, Adrenaline would still deactivate his power. That is not fair.
You pop the gens and then you not only get all the benefits of Adrenaline but you also reduce Freddy to a M1 killer with absolutely no power. Not even Trapper has that kind of weakness. He needs a complete rework to fix this. And that is likely not going to happen.
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Great. We need more Weskers. Survivors love to play against 50 Weskers in a row.
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Flicks aren't a tech. You can do this with normal mouse sensitivity (even I can do it). You just have to know how they work. It is not quite as straight forward as you may think.
If a killer is bad on console that is not a pc issue but a console issue. And unfortunately there is no easy solution for that. Removing flicks will end up killing Blight. We do not need even less viable and fun killers. The more killers you ruin the higher Wesker's pick rate goes (best case scenario). Or you don't have many people playing killer at all and get to enjoy 15 minutes survivor queues again (worst case scenario).
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After seeing their most recent "balance changes" I honestly dread it. They said they didn't want this to affect 3 gens that were created by accident. But I have my doubts that this will be possible.
I reckon it will be something like extra repair speed.
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@TheArbiter said:
Yes listen to OP deliverance is bad, never run it *sweats nervously as a killer main*
I swear self-care is super strong. I run it every game in my survivor matches. *tries to suppress laughter*
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Can't wait to see the first bot disconnect against a Dull Merchant.
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Simple answer: They can't fix it. It's latency.
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I guess Wesker's pick rate wasn't high enough yet, so now we destroy weaker killers.
The people that actually played this killer will have little reason to continue doing so. And for others... Why would you pick Sadako of all killers? She is an inferior, straight forward, skillless version of Dredge now.
Sadako officially got Freddied.
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A perk that is ALWAYS used in by comp teams is bad... Guess they didn't get the memo yet.
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@jesterkind said:
I've seen a lot of people say that new Sadako has less skill expression, and I don't understand that even slightly. If anything, if there's a problem with Sadako after these changes, it's that she requires too much skill expression.
You have to showcase a ton of map awareness to utilise Sadako properly. You need to know exactly where the survivors are, when they've picked up a tape, which direction they're running to insert that tape, and you need to position yourself to actually take advantage of those things. The changes that make tape interruptions matter boost her skill expression massively.
Genuinely, what skill expression did Sadako players even lose? I don't consider slug-for-Condemned to be particularly skill expressive, and nor is teleporting aimlessly within ten seconds of emerging, so... what's lost here?
The changes aren't perfect but they're definitely an improvement, and to compare them to Old Freddy is especially off the mark. That killer fundamentally changed, Sadako hasn't.
There were many players that played her without the Ring Drawing and didn't need to slug for her condemned play style to work. That was a skill expression because they had to chase survivors into TVs, predict when to teleport, keep track of all condemned stacks and figure out TV the survivor would have to run to. That is ALL GONE. What is left is: "Just teleport, bro. It won't do anything but hey..."
They literally Freddied her! Like, why would you play her now? There is 0 reason for anyone to pick her over any other killer. She doesn't have anything special about her anymore. Teleporting is nothing unique, playing for condemned moris will no longer be a thing regardless of how you try to achieve that, her good addons were butchered, her chase power was and is still a steaming pile of garbage and they reduced her lethality even further with the tapes no longer applying condemned stacks to the whole team when you hook someone. That is 100% a bad decision. Not only that. It is downright stupid! Yes BHVR, I am calling this decision stupid.
This is effectively a nerf for anyone, who invested time into mastering a weak killer to make them stronger. If this is what BHVR's reworks are going to be like, then please for the love of the entity, don't EVER rework a killer again. They already have a problem named Wesker and now they make it worse. The less killers there are that anyone would even think about playing, the more the other killers will be played! And that is the best case scenario. Worst case, people are going to stop playing, which means less money for future content.
Really, BHVR messed up horrendously on this front and they deserve the negative feedback they will get these next days. Next time, save yourselves some time and just make number changes. If you are going to destroy a killer regardless, then that is the easier way.
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They did. Not sure about Hubris but dream pallets used to work with Spirit Fury too.
I guess there is not much harm in beating a dead horse.
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I know what you mean but I think it goes both ways. Survivors and killers alike gaslight themselves into thinking the other side is only there to ruin their fun. It happens especially when players think they are better than they actually are.
I had 1 self proclaimed comp SWF that were calling me out for being the most toxic killer in this game for slugging (not killing the Meg that dead zoned herself immediately), tunneling (hitting the Ace that body blocked me with OTR) and camping. To be fair I didn't immediately disappear from the map, so that part about camping has some truth to it. These guys weren't crazy good. Not bad but definitely not comp level.
I also remember a different game where the survivors were trying to play nice and get my attention via loud noise notification. I misunderstood the situation and thought they were trying to bully me. Took me a while to realize, that I had jumped the gun and by that time I had already killed 1 of them. Luckily these guys were pretty chill about it.
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Plague is a bit stressful. Very strong but stressful none the less.
Freddy... Has little to offer. Like, why would you play Freddy of all killers? Unless it's for being Freddy.
Doctor is in a weird spot. He isn't bad and he can certainly win a lot of games but with gen speeds being the way they are and some of his better perks not being as good anymore he is kind of stuck in the middle.
Blight, Nurse, Wesker and Spirit all have 1 thing in common. They are extremely strong on top of having rather unique powers. And 2 of them are mechanically fun on top of that.
BHVR don't prioritize improving existing killers as much as many of us would like. But to be honest that is understandable. They won't make a lot of money by reworking killers that everyone already has.
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@Xendritch said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3490888#Comment_3490888
The SM could only stall that long for a couple specific reasons.
- Shotgun Speakers for silent skill checks which should be changed and is in this version. This makes oppression much less likely to gain value with overcharge
- The value of eruption was underappreciated in the team eternal game, they could get it consistently due to the lock on exposed mechanic so everyone was always one shot. This again would not be possible in this version due to that being scrapped in this version because could gens be camped yeah sure but as long as people are healing up that isn't gonna lead to much.
Yes the SM player will always know how where people are but that's literally her power, she's a tracking killer and it's not any worse than what a plague or artist could do.
Uhm, did we watch the same game? That guy got like 4 downs the entire match. 2 of them before the 3 genning really started. So Eruption didn't do much here. It was mostly Overcharge + Oppression + Shotgun Speakers.
I don't know how this game would have gone against a normal public team without Shotgun Speakers (though I have a pretty good idea given how most survivors react to SM). Maybe this would have made all the difference, maybe it would have ended the same way (assuming nobody disconnected).
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@GHOSTfaceP3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3490895#Comment_3490895
Maybe dbd isn't for you then? Bc that's not normal lol no offense, I play to have fun 🤷♀️
I'd say 31/32nd are for me. It's just this 1 little thing that I absolutely despise.
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@GHOSTfaceP3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3490685#Comment_3490685
I only play in public games
In that case, no offense but I hope you don't play too much. Because I don't want to end up playing against you. And I wouldn't wish that on anyone else for that matter.
Nothing personal, but playing against Dull Merchant makes me want to bang my head against a wall.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3490779#Comment_3490779
Lock On is the Exposed effect, not the Haste effect. The Haste comes from them being tracked on her little tracker pad, whether it's from being inside an Active Drone radius or from a Claw Trap.
@Xendritch said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3490779#Comment_3490779
The haste isn't attached to her lock on it's attached to how many survivors are trackable so it's not going anywhere.
As far as 3 genning every mobility killer can check every gen in a 3 gen as much as they want and Artist can send crows and all the gens like saying only SM can 3 gen well is goofy.
It seems I was wrong. Thanks for correcting me on that.
With this in mind, your rework might actually improve her after all. Still, I worry that she will be almost as oppressive in 3 gens as she is now. We have all seen the game against Team Eternal.
The SM didn't need any hooks to delay the survivors because they could hardly work on gens for longer than 5 seconds before they would need to leave again. Otherwise they would get hit and go down. So they had to leave way in advance every time.
With a high mobility killer there is always a short break before they can come back or attack you. With SM that isn't really the case. And that is only if the team can ignore the drones, which isn't the case for every team.
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@Xendritch said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3490729#Comment_3490729
This is where I think the community gets a little bit hysterical over SM and loses perspective. SM is not the only killer that can 3 gen literally every killer can 3 gen this just makes it so that she can't make the game last 50 minutes. Also her chase potential would not be that bad with these changes it would basically make her 8-10% faster than survivors and undetectable which is a massive deal in chase. It also gives her the ability to hit and run like wraith so no it would not force her toplay like she does now.
Actually, that is not right. This is a down grade of her chase potential. Right now, she has an inbuilt haste effect. By removing the lock on from her drones, you automatically remove that as well.
The main problem with SM is, that she forces survivors to leave gens way earlier than they normally would. If they don't do that, then they get hit / downed. This is what makes her 3 gen strategy so oppressive. Apart from always knowing when what gen is being worked on.