Xernoton
Xernoton
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3697823#Comment_3697823
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3697831#Comment_3697831
According to the stats it’s difficult to play survivor against any killer. 😆
DBD is a difficult game. So I would say that both are true. They aren't mutually exclusive.
However, both sides can stack so many things in their advantage, that the game becomes a lot easier. Meaning, you could play in a full SWF, send yourself to GoJ (or the new map, which is still fine-ish) and bring the strongest possible perks and items and 3 patrified oaks to make sure the killer will spend even more time hooking. Or you play Skull Merchant (I only picked SM because I conceive her as pretty easy) on Midwich with the best possible build and addons and tunnel someone immediately.
I also find it a bit difficult to call solo queue hard, based on the results alone, because there are a lot of things out of your control. So it's not like you could always just play better yourself and win. Even if you were to play on tournament level, you would still lose against an average killer, if your 3 team mates have an aversion to gens and also go down in seconds.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3697744#Comment_3697744
It IS tunneling, but it's justified tunneling, you know? There's a distinction.
You are going after the Survivor you hooked last, which is tunneling, but they're forcing your hand.
That's just semantics. I don't consider it tunneling because in my opinion, tunneling is a killer's conscious decision to go for the same survivor again. But in this case, someone else has made the decision for them.
It comes down to the same thing but it imposes the question, if anti tunneling features should should protect you in that situation.
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I have a suggestion to make. You asked how many times we think we are tunneled. This however brings the problem, that we are only 1 of 4 survivors, that could all be tunneled, so the percentage should be lower than in actuality.
If you want the actual numbers, then it would be better to phrase it as: How often do you think killers tunnel?
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On some perks and addons it would make sense. On others like Nowhere To Hide or BBQ it would probably reduce their strength too much. You'd only get value out of BBQ once because then everyone knows to expect it and will counter it by either sitting behind a gen or going into a locker for a few seconds. Nowhere To Hide would only work between 1-4 times (depending on how many survivors play in a SWF), which would also nerf it for no reason.
So I'm on the fence about this.
Maybe it could be added in some specific cases. But for the most part, I feel it's good that everyone has to try and deduce what perks their opponent is using.
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If they hadn't added FOMO cosmetics, I would have argued that it's probably a bit of both.
Now the FOMO aspect is not a strong argument anymore. At least, this would be something that you can get at any time. They also added the red backgrounds as a reward for prestiging characters before the grind rework. That was also FOMO but they didn't have an issue with that. So I find it hard to find any other reason than: "It makes no money."
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You seem to ignore that there is currently a glitch, that makes this much stronger than it should be. I specifically asked for counterplay and your answer was that it's fine because not many people can do it.
If that argument actually worked, than we could justify Huntress instantly killing survivors as long as she threw the hatchet more than 30 metres far. Only very few players can actually hit these but somehow I reckon it would still be wrong to implement this.
This would also apply to Omega Blink Nurse. Or Starstruck Nurse on Midwich. Why did we nerf her again? Ahhh, yes. Counterplay. Or the lack of which for that matter.
It doesn't matter how good you are, there should always be the possibility for someone to play better. Otherwise you can become completely unbeatable. Does that sound fair to you? That's why counterplay is important. If staring at a wall actually worked, I'd be mostly fine with flashbangs (although sound occlusion for flashbangs should be fixed as well).
Also, cool it with the us vs. them. It's not that deep and it makes it seem like you play survivor only, which means, you don't know the full the picture. I play more killer than survivor but when I see an issue with killers or killer perks, I want it to be fixed too. Like for example Knock Out. I consider this one of the most unhealthy perks in the game. It completely destroys solo survivors and it promotes the most disgusting play style (hardcore slugging until all 4 are down at the same time). But it's 1 of the 2 counters to this issue, so we can't really rework it either, can we?
I am willing to ignore the thinly veiled passive aggressiveness in that last 3rd as long as you cool it with the attitude. I'm pretty sure this is against forum rules too. The problem with a flashbang save is not that you will never down that person again. It's that all the progress you made in the last 45 seconds (chase time the devs balance for) is negated. When you already play the role that has less time. This is undisputable. The game is balanced around slowdown perks for killers because it is completely unrealistic to win chases quicker than the gens pop.
Coming back to your point; you get blinded and stunned, now the survivor with Background Player is gone (they still have time left to get out of there) and the other has made enough distance to last 20 seconds more at the very least. If that happens once per game, who cares. You can still beat that, if you play good enough. What if this happens multiple times? Or what if there is even a thread for this to happen multiple times? Then you need to counter it. Even if you had 4 × Pop Goes The Weasel, it wouldn't matter. Because it doesn't work without a hook. That's how strong a flashlight save is.
Now, we're back to the same question: How do you counter this? Lightborn? Solid. Now, I need to equip Lightborn every single game? Really? We already had such a situation with BT and it was included into the survivor's base kit for that exact reason. Base kit Lightborn however would remove the entire blind mechanic, which is not a good idea. So that's not an option. Now the killer has 3 perks and Lightborn just so that they can counter blinds. Then the pickrate of flashbangs will go down, which makes the perk useless again but the killer still can't use something else because there is a chance that it's in the game and without Lightborn the game can be lost in the lobby already. This is the same as with tunneling, which many of us have argued needs to be addressed on a base kit level again.
I have played the game for long enough to see both extremes. Times when the game was horrible for survivors and times when the game was horrible for killers. If you want an example, just ask. So my goal is not to remove fun or strength from the survivor role but to make this whole thing fair. Which currently it isn't. I prefer my queue times low, so if you don't believe me that I play survivor enough to care about the role, then you can still believe, I do not want to wait 20+ minutes for a game. Btw, this had already happened for survivor queue times in 2021. So this is not even an overexaggeration.
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Don't be a jerk (that's for playing multiplayer games in general), assume your team mates will make mistakes (otherwise you set yourself up for disappointment), don't expect anyone to play the way you want them to (as long as it doesn't include exploits, they are allowed to play in whichever way the want) and remember that it's a team effort.
You will not win the 1v1 against the killer because you literally can't. But as a survivor you have strength in numbers, which can really work in your favor.
Most important though, find your own fun. As long as you're having fun, you're already winning.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3697949#Comment_3697949
That you can get hit by him even if you are on his side or that you get slammed into nothing. (And I dont mean that an object is nearby and it just looks janky, I had situations where I got slammed into thin air)
Thanks. The part about his slams is weird indeed. There are times when you get slammed into nothing and other times he trows you into a tree and you don't take damage. I hope that can be fixed (even more so, now that they have fixed Blight's hitboxes).
The part about him grabbing you, when you are on his side, I have not yet experienced in any way that I could be sure wasn't due to latency. So, I'm not sure, if that's a problem with Wesker. If it is, then I'd like to see that fixed too as long as we don't go back to Wesker rushing right through survivors (like on release). If it is due to latency, then I really doubt it can be fixed completely.
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I'd argue that stressful ⇒ difficult. Maybe not mechanically (depends on the killer, of course) but definitely in the sense, that you need to stay calm or you will play worse and lose as a result.
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@C3Tooth said:
Just a problem of mismatching. What do you say about Nurse 4K at 5 Gens? Yes, mismatching. Or killers dont realize its difficult to play survivor against strong killers?
There is nothing wrong when an average killer lose to strong teams.
Agreed. Although, sometimes it does not matter whether or not you're average or good because your loss was already decided in the lobby when everyone picked their loadouts.
You could be the most insane survivor of all time but against Starstruck Nurse on Midwich, there was nothing much that could be done (I'm glad that is a thing of the past). The same could be said for some of the weaker killers. You can perform good with all of them but you will not be able to make up for their lack of power by equipping meta perks, when you play against the strongest teams the game has to offer.
Obviously most of us aren't in that very unfortunate position (I assume most of us aren't "high MMR monsters") but it still doesn't feel great when you need to play A LOT better than your opponent just to have a chance. Take Freddy and Trapper for example. You don't have much to actually get good with so their counterplay remains relatively straight forward and simple (note, that I do not call it easy).
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@Aven_Fallen said:
The only things that are annoying on Wesker are his lose definition of a Hitbox and his tunneling potential. At the very least the tunneling potential can be worked on and it should be worked on.
I agree on the tunneling part.
But what do you mean by "lose definition of a Hitbox"?
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This has nothing to do with "strong survivors". You could make a similar argument for range + recharge (aka Omega Blink) Nurse. Yes, they play good. But does that rectify a complete lack of counterplay? I don't think so. Because that would imply, that once they reach a certain level, they have earned the right to always win no matter how good their opponent.
The problem with flashbangs is that they have literally no counterplay due to a glitch and Background Player working the way it currently does. You can be on the other half of the map and still plant the flashbang under the killers feet during their animation. Staring at a wall does not work against this either because survivors can glitch themselves into the killer during the pick up animation and plant the flashbang.
I assume you didn't know about this because you're saying that killers should "git gud", when against this there are only 2 possible counters. Either you slug them ("dirty killer tactic") or you use Lightborn, which most survivors don't really like either because it makes their items and sometimes perks completely useless. Basically, the only 2 possible counters that I know off, will not be appreciated.
In the off chance you did actually know about the glitch, I would really like to know, how you propose op or any other killer player counter this.
@vBlossom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3697924#Comment_3697924
Exactly, they got carried to high MMR in which they shouldn't be by constantly doing 4K's via using OP builds on killers and when they are facing "sweaty SWFs" instead of "silly-chill ones" they are demanding nerfs on forum 😂
So it's fine for survivors to glitch themselves into the killer during the pick up animation and plant a flashbang under their feet with 0 counterplay? Nah. That doesn't sound right. The only counterplay you have against flashbangs (facing a wall) doesn't work against this. So it is literally uncounterable without Lightborn and all because of an exploit.
Have you played as or against PTB Twins? Because they have just as much counterplay. For some reason I don't think any of us want that to go to live though.
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So far I have found 2 counters. Lightborn and Knock Out. If you really want to hook them, then Lightborn helps against flashbangs but they can still adapt and go down under pallets, so that a team mate with Background Player can save them.
Knock Out on the other hand can work, if you're trying to slug them all before picking up. The blindness will not do much against a SWF but the slower recovery and crawling speed still help. Do this on a killer that can get quick M1s (like Wraith or Doctor) and you can still slug all of them. Make sure the Unbreakables are out of the way before you pick them up and take self unhooks into account and it should work. I tried this a few times with Sloppy Butcherer, Nurse's Calling and Surge and it works much better than I anticipated.
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@NekoGamerX said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3696807#Comment_3696807
you don't have to be like that but this is dbd so keep it up I guess…
also I don't main her and like to see you do with out fail.
It was a joke. Only about 3 people in the entire world can hit those. It's stupid, that this achievement is so hard to get on console and it honestly doesn't make much sense because it's arguably even harder to aim with a controller.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3697622#Comment_3697622
Seems like you had some difficult trials, my friend.
Unfortunately, this is the current reality with Freddy. I'd love to have some special trick to share, but I don't have much to offer. Unless I talked about Old Freddy, that is.
Perhaps you can add a map offering on top of everything you're already using. It is risky, but it might help.
Thanks. I'll give this another shot tomorrow. Maybe I'll have better luck then.
I played a few matches Huntress because against her Shift + W doesn't work very well and it's refreshing. Also, for some obscure reason I can suddenly hit hatchets on survivors that do not stand still. This is a big deal for me because usually I couldn't hit a wall from 6 metres away. 😂
When we get old Freddy back, you'll be the first I come to for advise.
@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3697622#Comment_3697622
Hmmm. Can we chat about Sloppy for a moment? Do killers find this that useful? With as many resil users and such are, I just wanted to chat a bit about it for insight. ty!
I don't use it a lot (and when I do, then only on Freddy, Wraith and Doctor) so take this with a grain of salt. But from what I've seen in normal games it's not much worse than before the nerf. Mostly they will either heal right after an unhook when Sloppy is still active or they'll stay injured just as before. The good thing is that Wraith and Doctor are killers you don't really want to stay injured against because both of them can get quick hits with a little bit of luck. So staying injured to get more value out of Reslience is pretty risky against them.
For Freddy… Well, it's Freddy. He's not the powerhouse he used to be and it's not really hard to stay awake so you'll know exactly when he's coming. So for the most part, you won't catch a lot of people off guard with him (at least without any additional perks for it), which means Resilience will work pretty well. Especially since he will also have to play pure M1 killer as long as you can stay awake, which makes the faster vaults really hurt.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3697505#Comment_3697505
Yes but a META in and of itself isn’t bad. Every game (even PvE) has some sort of META. Weakening perks to disrupt the (survivor) meta just creates a game all survivors reliably have are map resources, which are also shrinking. I think people forget killers have supernatural abilities and perks. Survivors just have perks.
I agree that meta is nothing bad. But it's definitely not a good thing when the meta pushes everything else away. Would you like to see more Pain Res + Pop? I wouldn't. I also don't want to see more of the same perks on survivors. But for more perk variety, it's not enough to buff something else. Because in order for that something else to be picked over the existing meta it would need to be even stronger. Meaning, you now have just as many meta perks as before with one former meta perk disappearing into the void.
There need to be more perks that are good but not always perfectly reliable. Otherwise, why pick something else unless it's even better?
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@GeneralV said:
Well, I'll try to ignore this thing happening above to give ya a good answer, my friend.
Unfortunately, there is no ancient knowledge to help with Freddy, not this time. This isn't a scenario like the one seen with Old Freddy, where he was incorrectly regarded as the weakest killer in the game because many players just didn't realize his potential. This time, Freddy has very little going for him.
As @ArkInk said, Red Paint Brush will help ya with your first chase, because he will be harder to detect at the beginning of the match and your power will be available as soon as the first chase starts. Brutal Strength can help you deal with pallets and Corrupt Intervention can buy you time, but overall there isn't much that can be done.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3697560#Comment_3697560
Thank you for mentioning me, my friend. I wish I had a good trick to share.
Thank you, friend. I picked Freddy because I wanted to keep my M1 killer gameplay sharp and I only needed an excuse to play him again (I love his animations) but sadly I can't really practice M1 killer gameplay, if I can't even catch up to the survivors.
I'll try the Paintbrush, Corrupt Intervention, Brutal Strength, Sloppy and Plaything for a few games. Maybe it helps. Or I'll switch one of them for STBFL.
Update:
Game 1: FTP + Buckle Up x 1, Background Player x 3. It did not work out. All 4 were deliberately going down under pallets just so they could be saved by a team mate with Background Player. I tried to slug them all before hooking but well… It's Freddy.
Game 2: SB x 3, Lithe x 1, WoO x 3. I think they might have been solo. The game sent me to Gas Heaven. Again. I got 7 hooks by the time the game was over. So it worked pretty well. Sadly the Shift + W only stopped twice when I got survivors to run into snares with the brown blindness addon.
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@ArkInk said:
Ignoring the bigot up top, the best strat for holding W in my experience with Freddy is Sloppy and a new target. Paint Brush starting all survivors asleep gives you some stealth to get the ball rolling for a few hits, and you get TP faster along with the Skillcheck effect of the addon. The Oblivious effect asleep survivors get generally tends to ward them off objectives if they're injured in my experience. If you really want to twist the Knife, Plaything adds another layer of stealth and a side objective, it can quickly become overwhelming for a lot of players.
I would ban them from this thread if I could.
Thanks for your suggestion. I'll take anything at this point. 😅 Though I don't feel like the Oblivious effect does much for me (admittedly, I don't use the Paintbrush so they're mostly awake).
The Plaything build sounds exactly like my kind of stuff. I love picking a gimmick and then overcommitting to it to the point it becomes ridiculous.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3697360#Comment_3697360
Great so he just cuts you off instead and you still don't make it anywhere, more boring but same result... You cannot always expect a chance to come out on top, some times all odds are just against you, does not mean that in other situations hug tech isnt a great addition to his kit and offers more interactions.
That is a good point and I'm not saying that Hug Tech should never be a thing but with Blight's strength, I feel like it just pushes him over the edge. I think Blight is already so strong with bump logic that anything that makes even stronger is simply too much. We'll see how Blight will do on live servers but I think it will be fine.
I regret that a part of his skill expression will have to be deleted but something had to be nerfed still and with the developers setting precedent of fixing techs for the sake of fixing techs, I think this is the right move.
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@Nebula said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3697282#Comment_3697282
I mean I’d argue the majority of the cast have good chase powers and unless the pallet is completely safe, which there are a noticeable amount less of, just don’t break the pallet and you don’t let them get distance. And if they are just quite literally pre-dropping and running as far away as possible, you probably shouldn’t commit them unless you want to go on a world tour.
Especially with Freddy too, just don’t break the pallet, place a snare and depending on RNG or where they’re at you have a good chance of getting a hit.
IMO, you vastly overestimate WoO’s impact on the game. It doesn’t run tiles for you, just gets you there, which the majority of players can do with or without it. And the players that truly crutch on it and just “run to yellow” as you say, are probably not good in chase anyways.
[…] just don’t break the pallet and you don’t let them get distance.
Believe me, I try. But even just the extra distance that it takes you to walk around it is enough for them to make another 20 metres, then repeat. Or they come back to that pallet later to use Lithe, which causes the same issue. You don't catch up to them.
And if they are just quite literally pre-dropping and running as far away as possible, you probably shouldn’t commit them unless you want to go on a world tour.
I get that but the problem is that every survivor can do that with pretty much no effort. And it's how my last couple games have all been going. Granted, I played Freddy but just the power of Shift + W amazes me. It's not even that I don't have anything in a loop because I don't actually get to play around loops.
IMO, you vastly overestimate WoO’s impact on the game.
That is entirely possible. Though I doubt it because in most cases I can tell who does and doesn't have WoO just by the way they're playing. So I reckon, I do feel the direct impact of WoO.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3697303#Comment_3697303
I’d argue the point of perks is to give a competitive edge. Niche perks are bad designs because their effects are inconsistent and unpredictable. Most players should select their perks by how reliably those perks contribute to winning a match.
That's how perks become as overused as DH in its prime. If a perk is 100% reliable, then there is no reason to use anything else unless it's even stronger. So you create a meta that is very narrow in that only very few perks are ever used. This is what we see on the killer meta right now. Pain Res + Pop are very consistent perks and there is absolutely no reason to use anything different. Even though there are a lot of good options.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3697424#Comment_3697424
Disagree.
BHVR uses perks as band-aids for bad game design.
For tunneling? Yeah. And I don't like that either. For M1 killers? Yeah. Try playing without STBFL and see how that goes. That's bad design.
However in this case, there were more than enough possible ways to counter slugging. UB was just one of them. There is only form of slugging that I consider problematic and that involves the number 1 slugging perk, Knock Out. But in that case, even UB won't help you.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3697405#Comment_3697405
It's not one out of sixteen perks, it's one out of four. Survivors can't be considered a team.
You can only bring four perks, and by taking a precautionary perk like UB, it's likely you'll be handicapped elsewhere. I do not like this more modern DBD idea of needing to run perks to have a chance at an enjoyable experience.
Takes out build variety and you never see silly builds anymore, because it's not worth it.
Perks are specifically designed to help you out where you struggle. I agree that no perk should be an absolute necessity (like BT or Shadowborn) but that's not the case for UB. It's just one of many things, that would have helped here. I would have made the same argument for exhaustion perks, if they had just played bad in chase. Or to bring an info perk, if they as a killer and could not find survivors.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3697272#Comment_3697272
To be fair, to take away his Lethal value, every Survivor would need to split up and run in separate directions.
Likewise, running UB would require prior knowledge of the Billy wanting to four man slug. It's usually a dead slot, because tunneling is more lucrative than slugging, at the moment. I also don't think it would've changed anything.
To be fair, to take away his Lethal value, every Survivor would need to split up and run in separate directions.
Which is something that should be done against insta down killers anyway. Running around them just gives them a chance to down more people and you, as a survivor, know that. Also, it would be enough for 1 person to just make distance somewhere else for this extreme case to not work out, since they could come back and pick up a slug when the killer is somewhere else. But all of them remained in the general area.
I think 1 out of 16 perks used for UB isn't too much, is it? Yes, you don't know if someone else has it (different issue, that DBD Mobile already solved) but generally speaking you could use it as a pre caution.
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Deep wounds were designed to give survivors something to do with absolute high priority. Meaning, you will not sit on a gen. You will likely not heal someone else first (although it's not a big deal, if it happens) and it also takes longer for you to be healed when deep wounds are inflicted because you first need to mend.
That's all this is supposed to do. It's not meant to give the killer free downs (PTB Legion showed players that this is not a good idea) and and you're not meant to mend in the killer's face. Deep wounds also counter the Endurance effect, so if you have a medkit with a Styptic Agent, too bad. You won't get to use it while in deep wound. The same goes for DH.
By the way, you can still mend even if you're broken because mending isn't counted as a healing action and the broken status effect only stops healing actions on you. There are even ways to be healthy and broken at the same time.
To that degree deep wounds and mending work perfectly fine.
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I think the AFC is fine but hook grabs should make a return (though that might need some more adjustments to the AFC to balance it out). It added a bit of risk and mind gaming to the otherwise very straight forward unhook mechanic. I get that face camping wasn't great but knowing that there's no way survivors can be punished for playing reckless in that situation, other than tunneling is not great.
You cannot punish the survivor that actually made the mistake but only the one coming off the hook, which just feels very wrong. This has led to many of my team mates unhooking me immeditaley right next to the killer and me getting tunneled as a consequence. In that situation even DS won't help, since the first half of the chase basically doesn't happen. Blame the killer all you like but in that situation, why wouldn't they tunnel? Preventing the unhook doesn't work and the killer is not obligated to let survivors get away with playing stupid. We don't expect survivors to stop doing gens because the killer went in the wrong direction either.
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@_Onyx_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3696904#Comment_3696904
Mnk?
Whenever I hear someone say this killer is boring without a reason, it makes me think that they haven't really put much thought into what The Unknown brings to DBD. Its kit is so versatile and completely counterable too. Its the most balanced Killer they have ever made, yet it's a high A tier Killer.
BHVR, if they did it by accident or purposely tried to make it this way, did an amazing job with this killer.
Most balanced and completely counterable? Nah. Not really. Unknown does have some pretty uncounterable scenarios. Like having a Hallucination in a loop. There's nothing you can do to avoid a hit there, if they don't mess up and it's also possible for them to wait in that loop until a Hallucination is placed. That's really not a nice feeling to play against since it basically makes them a stronger Dredge in that loop. It's also something that makes this killer less interesting for me to play as because I know that I often have the option to just wait and place a Hallucination instead of actually playing around with the UVX.
I don't really like playing as Unknown either. I find it kind of boring for the most part and the only real interesting thing about the killer for me is the bouncing projectile. That's something different. But everything else, I don't really like. Hitting survivors through walls also feels pretty wrong to me.
The visual design in my opinion is more goofy than anything else.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3697342#Comment_3697342
I mean when Blight prepares a hug tech you as survivor can tell fairly easily and most of the time react to it, sure some tiles are basically auto loses, but not every tile can be safe...
I get that but I don't think lose-lose situations are great when they can be created relatively easy. The survivor didn't make it to a better loop, now they get hit with nothing they can do. Great. I think it's just too much for a killer that is already so strong.
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For Hug Tech, I think it was just something that pushed Blight up too much. I'm not a good Blight player but even I can do some Hug Techs and get hits I would never get with bump logic. There are also some loops where it leaves the survivor with absolutely no counterplay, which I don't think is good. However, I see where you're coming from. It's part of Blight's skill expression and for that reason it's kind of sad that it has to go.
Stagger Vaults were quite problematic. I saw a video of some guy doing it around Mother's Dwelling's main building against some killers and even the 4.6 m/s killers lost chase, which turned it into an infinite. I'm not sure the killers played this perfectly since I didn't see it from their PoV but even the possibility that it might turn some buldings into infinites is dangerous.
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Do you not see how it's a bad thing, that you cannot play without this perk?
Old WoO had a cooldown but it would help you learn maps. I don't think anyone wants it to be completely deleted but adding a cooldown (or reverting the buff) would be appropriate. You would still know where to go but the perk would go on a cooldown after a while, incentivising you to memorise 1 or 2 nearby loops to go to and then you'd get it back. This would also teach you maps and eventually you would be able to play without it.
That's not the case for WoO as it is now because you have absolutely no reason to learn maps. But it's part of the survivor skill expression to learn map layouts. You don't need to have every loop memorised but a general idea of where to go isn't too much, is it? And if you don't play the game enough to get on that level (no shame in that), then you should be put against killers that are equally unexperienced.
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I agree. It's the same issue as 3gens in reverse. I remember a game against a 4 people SWF that all used Distortion and Calm Spirit and did nothing but hide. It took me about 15 minutes to get a single hook. Eventually I lost sight of them again (yeah, yeah, skill issue, I know) and didn't find another survivor. I went afk because I did not queue up to be held hostage and ended up getting disconnected by the game. Which is particularly weird because there is no such thing for afk survivors.
They have not addressed the issue yet (probably because it's relatively rare) but something really should be done. Give the killer killer instinct on one survivor with the least hook stages after not being in chase for 2+ minutes and end it when the chase starts. That way you couldn't really use it to win the match but it would still tackle the issue while also ignoring perks.
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Don't say that! I like not having to care about the main building when I play killer.
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
Ultimate Weapon, tunnelling, survivors who don't leave when the match is over and 3-4 slowdown builds.
But at present Ultimate Weapon makes me rage, I know it is irrational in the big scheme of things but Ultimate Weapon irritates me no end
I guess, it's somewhat similar to how I feel about DH. I do not consider this perk problematic anymore but I also never want to see it again.
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It's probably their FoV. It looks like in the video they use a higher FoV than normal and this tends to make it look like you move faster. At 1:34 you also see them place a trap, which grants the Trapper a Haste effect for a few seconds.
You can adjust your FoV in the Beta settings, if I'm not mistaken.
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@fussy said:
How about 3 swf in a row with 3-4 Adrens/Resi and map offering? I wonder why I don't play 4 slowdown tunnel Nurse/ 4 aura Midwich Nurse after games like these. Same level of braindeadness.
Ouch. I get that.
I mean, I'm happy for people having fun with their friends but after a while, that is not that nice to play against.
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@Ayodam said:
You all made mistakes which have been pointed out but I disagree with the suggestion that you should have used specific perks to counter the slugging. You can’t really know that a killer is going to slug before they do. I would say it isn’t even a common playstyle. Bringing perks to potentially counter that could be a waste of a perk slot.
You can’t really know that a killer is going to slug before they do.
Fair but that's kind of the point of most perks, isn't it? To counter things that may or may not happen. Distortion is another example of this. So is the Blast Mine or Mind Breaker (the main strength is to counter exhaustion perks, which may or may not be in the game), technically Undying (you can ignore most hex perks and get through), Shattered Hope and Enduring.
I think that some of them could probably use some additional effects, so that they don't become completely useless when the situation they are supposed to counter doesn't occur but we already see what happens when some perks always work. They are overused. For example Pop and Pain Res. Even BBQ to a degree and that hurts me to say because it's my favorite perk. The same goes for Lithe and SB as well as WoO etc.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3697282#Comment_3697282
I mean why are you playing Freddy anyway ^^
Not like you have a decent power anyway ^^
I like his animations for whatever reason. Seeing him wiggle his fingers is weirdly satisfying. I also noticed I have become a bit rusty with M1 killer gameplay (side effect of playing Billy for so long).
Also, I enjoy a good challenge every now and then and pallet Freddy is about as challenging as it gets.
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@Man_of_triangles said:
Do you really want to go back to the days when there were only a few viable killers even against solo queue players?
That was not the point of the video.
Balancing is good as long as the game remains fun. We have some killers that are balanced but really not fun to play and also some that are balanced but really not fun to play against. The game has also shifted away from the interactive part between killer and survivor and more towards minimising interaction to the bare minimum. That means it's more effective for survivors to smash gens so the game is over before they get chased / hooked / killed instead of actually delaying the killer and for the killer it's more effective to eliminate one person early on and then steamroll the rest.
This is one of the reasons why we see even more slowdown than a few years back. Because survivors don't try to outlast the killer anymore but to outspeed them (which is a natural consequence of some of the balancing decisions the devs have made and we players pushed for).
Having strong killers in the game is not a bad thing and in that regard the devs have done a good job. Most killers are pretty good now. But the meta changes have brought with them a change in the gameplay loop, that I would prefer reverted. This however is probably not going to happen because for that, they'd need to make extensive changes to survivors and revert some map reworks that arguably made them more fair as well.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3697269#Comment_3697269
Would not go that far... You still need to evaluate whether not the yellow is bad or decent... But let's say it is easier.. And also sometimes pallets get destroyed so fast you won't notice with any means only.
[…] You still need to evaluate whether not the yellow is bad or decent. […]
Against killers with decent chase powers? Maybe. Though even then often enough it pays to simply drop the yellow and use that little bit of extra distance to make for a stronger yellow.
Against M1 killers? Hell no. Drop the yellow (or don't, they won't catch up any time soon anyway) and make more distance until eventually you have no choice but to camp yellow. Then drop yellow on the killer's head and run to next yellow.
Before yesterday, I would have been more inclined to agree but my lord, the Shift + W is strong in some people. Against Freddy no less. I can definitely see how you absolutely cannot loop against a M1 killer and this is your only counterplay.
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@okaayletsgoo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3697059#Comment_3697059
Solo q bud. And yes rocked by a billy not playing the game as intended. Leaving no time to do anything but scramble.
Who is to say that this is not intended? This doesn't fall in any category for a report and the objective of the killer is not to get hooks but only kills. For all we know this could be just as intended as survivors doing gens.
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There was absolutely nothing you could do.
Because spreading out to take away all the info he obviously got from Lethal Pursuer is not an option. Neither is running Unbreakable, running towards a safe loop, crawling somewhere else, actual looping, or picking up the slugs when he isn't right next to them. These are not at all possible ways to avoid something like this.
Honestly, there was only one real issue in that video and that was Ada getting screwed because she played on a controller. Devs, please! This is not ok. Console players should not be punished by bad controls.
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Because WoO is an autopilot. You turn off your brain and play "Run to Yellow". With AMN you'd need to put some thought into it because you only see dropped pallets and no windows.
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I agree with quite a few things she mentioned.
Especially the part about skill expression being removed is sad. It makes the game so much more predictable. I could understand that they looked at the light burn mechanic again and even removing it from Wraith would have been fine in my opinion, since he didn't really need it to begin with. But against Nurse, Artist and Hag it was an interesting counter and it felt pretty fair. Not to mention, they removed flashlight interactions from these killers for consistency reasons but then kept it on Nemesis? Real consistent, devs.
Somewhere along the way, the devs have missed the mark when it comes to removing problematic things but keeping fun things. Locker safes could be considered part of the former, light burns part of the latter.
It also seems the devs can't really decide, if they want the game to be competitive or accessible to everyone. It can't be both. Not when you have such a huge amount of different mechanics, maps and perks. On one hand, they remove a bunch of stuff that could give one side an advantage, if done correctly to decrease the impact of skill difference and on the other they try to balance the game around a 60% kill rate.
Which is also something she mentioned as being an issue and I agree. The results don't matter as much as the actual game. I'd rather have a lower kill rate, if it meant the game would go back to 2021's play styles. I saw a lot less pre dropping and Shift + W or hardcore tunneling at 5 gens back then. I have seen people throw entire games just to stick to these play styles and yeah, you can beat them (given the right loadout). But it's not enjoyable. And that's the problem. You can have the most balanced game of all time but if it's not enjoyable to play, then it's dead anyway.
The PTB doesn't help. Twins are horribly overpowered, Haddonfield is basically a complete dead zone and what have they done with DS?! They said, they would put some more tiles on the streets of Haddonfield but it seems they forgot to actually allow the pallets to spawn. This is not what any of us asked for. We wanted the houses to be more fair for killers and the streets to be more interactive for survivors. Meaning more loops on the streets (maybe a few windows too because otherwise we'll see people run from pallet to pallet and pre drop everything which will only combine different issues and amplify them).
The DS buff was promising but what in the world have they done with this animation? Now it's even worse than before. I thought it would only have like a short animation and then stun the killer for 5 seconds but here we are. I feel like we're back in 5.5.0 when they nerfed the Twins' Toy Sword for no reason. The year started promising but now I'm really not looking forward to the next patches anymore.
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Skill issue. Just hit those orbital strikes, baby killer.
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Killer: Lethal, BBQ, Brutal Strength, STBFL
The perfect build to say "screw you, I'm playing pallet Freddy". You'll probably lose but you'll have a good time regardless.
Survivor: Bond, Lithe, Open Handed, We'll Make It
It has a bit of everything and the combination of Bond + Open Handed is so addictive.
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It could make for an interesting perk, if you could switch hook stages with another survivor. Of course both survivors would need to agree and maybe it should make the survivor that took the hook stage the obsession just so that the killer can have some idea of what actually happened when they hook the other survivor 2 more times and they don't die.
There would probably need to be some additional upsides for the perk to be good but it could be a pretty interesting anti tunnel perk.
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Freddy needs a rework. Desperately. Ever since his initial rework the devs failed to hit the sweet spot between broken and weak when it comes to Freddy.
He went from a killer many considered weak to a killer that was considered to rival Nurse in strength and now he has fallen pretty low. He is unimaginative, uninspired, weak, feels like a watered down version of other killers and is the one killer that is punished for hooking and killing survivors. Sure, devs, I'll just start killing survivors without hooking them. All at the same time. The problem is, nobody will like to play against a hardcore slugging killer.
He only has a chase power when survivors are asleep, which is not exactly hard to avoid. And even then, his snares aren't great. They're Clown's purple bottles in worse with less versatility since he can't throw them over a large range. Clown even has the yellow bottles on top of that. Freddy's teleport has a huge cooldown and it only gets worse as the game progresses. He starts the game with no power and he ends it with almost no power. That's 1 good thing about the Adrenaline nerf though. At least Freddy will no longer be countered by it.
I play him somewhat regularly because I've come to love his animations but my lord, you feel the lack of power.
@GeneralV probably has some more insight on this topic.
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Hillbilly on a good day:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpnW68Q8ltcHillbilly on a bad day:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqbQuypKCCUOne of these 2 always fits the mood.
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I'd rather not. I hate playing against bots because it's so boring and predictable and I don't like playing with bots either because they're not the smartest. I once saw bot run into the basement to get an unhook, then run up again and into the killer without actually getting the unhook first.
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@HerInfernalMajesty said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/410546/about-mmr
I remember talking to you about this a little while ago about how the mmr system has moments where it “breathes”- in that each ladder (survivor ladder and killer ladder) sometimes grind past eachother or go up and down with each other but at separate rates. This could very well be why some games just feel so off and strange. When you couple this phenomenon with people playing different than they usually do plus adding people prioritizing challenges it will lead to clumps in certain mmr ranges that need to be equalized. This sometimes will creat a reverberation effect at the top and low ends which naturally create bounce back effects.
It’s like imagining mmr like water sloshing back and forth in a container except do it twice one for survivor and one for killer.
Because of this it is very difficult to know where in the ladder you actually reside. Which for me is a little bit futile in trying to figure out. My best advice to anyone is to first find a way of playing that is fun for you. After that the mmr system will (mostly) work to legitimize your playstyle into a 60% killrate.
When it comes to making judgements based off of mmr it is very difficult and almost impossible since we are never shown our mmr and since the system always tries to place you where you belong based off of your playstyle. Because of this a player can run into situations where they think the game is very easy because they “win” so much when in reality they are just being kept within their average/lower mmr range. The reverse is also true, good players may not feel as good because they lose more than they should but that’s because they are above the soft cap.
Overall it’s an interesting system one that I believe ultimately is a benefit but it definitely comes with its own baggage.
As for the badge system, yes it absolutely needs to change. Too many newer (and sometimes veteran) players equate experience with raw skill. There is a small correlation that experience translates into skill but not as much as people think. The badge system and scoring should stay the same under the hood but it needs to be redressed. Call it a “Killer’s bloodbook/killbook” or something and for Survivor make it like a punch card or something like that. Just make it an obvious bonus separate from any kind of skill report card. People will still conflate it with skill but it’s a start.
Thank you for the cookie 🍪 it was delicious.
Overall it's an interesting system one that I believe ultimately is a benefit but it definitely comes with its own baggage.
I agree. MMR by now really isn't so horrible anymore. At least the overall match quality is fine.
I would still like the devs to be more transparent about how the matchmaking works, especially in-game and make a few adjustments to how MMR is calculated or change the rewards for kills / escapes vs. actual performance. The most god like survivor in the world that loops the PTB Twins for 5 gens (not that that's realistic) and then dies barely gets anything out of the game, while their team mates get the objective points (not many but still quite a few) and the escape points. So they are likely to go out with more points, have their MMR raised and be considered the better players than the 1 that actually did the heavy work.
I feel that this is also part of the reason many solo queue matches feel as unbalanced. Because 4 survivors that aren't good in chase but can do gens will mostly not have a good time against even average killers.
Too many newer (and sometimes veteran) players equate experience with raw skill.
This is something I have seen especially veteran players do. You can go look for some streamers and they will often think, they are super good at the game, when in reality they might only be super good at some aspects of it and pretty bad at others.
I for one believe to be somewhat decent with Hillbilly but put me on Huntress and I'll struggle to hit a survivor on a gen with a homing hatchet. I know this might be controversial but even Otzdarve isn't a god as and against all killers. He plays fairly well for the most part but it is obvious that he doesn't understand some killers as the people that main them do. The same goes for other content creators and players too.
I mostly break the game down into 2 key components:
- The 1v1, which is basic chasing and all that is included.
- The 1v4, which includes the decision making, prioritisation, positioning etc.
Especially the second part is something that only comes from experience. I'm not an amazingly skilled player when it comes to mechanics (took me a looot of time to learn Billy and I still have much to learn) but after a few thousand hours in the game I believe that I can win many of my matches just from keeping track of survivors, smart chasing (I.e. chasing survivors into dead zones), cutting survivors off etc. and it's something that I see on other experienced players as well.
Thank you for the cookie 🍪 it was delicious.
You deserved it for reading through that all. 😉