WeirdHexButOk
WeirdHexButOk
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I love the idea of a sound queue notifying you that some generator stopped regressing. However, I feel like balancing that kind of information would require an entirely new perk. We could create a token-based system to limit how often we are rewarded with a notification.
In order to make the perk "fair for all", it will only activate when 4/3/2 or more generators are currently being worked on.
You start the match with 0/1/2 tokens; basic attacks gain 2 stacks; special attacks gain 1 stack, up to .
Any time a generator starts regressing, loose 1 stack and hear a sound queue.
Not only would this perk reward pressure spread into multiple different generators, but it would also reward the killer's base-kit skill and special attack skill. This kind of perk would pair perfectly with Surveillance, Pain Res, Surge, Oppression, Ruin. -
@WeirdHexButOk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4101061#Comment_4101061
Haste, Boons, Hexes, and elusive all count as status effects. Some killer powers and addons also count. If you combine perks 1,2,5, and the reworked Overwhelming Presence; you could punish survivors with exhaustion perks. Even if they don't bring exhaustion perks, most killers have some sort of exhaustion addon. The only reason the perk rework applies hindered to blinded survivors is so that survivors reach the 5 status effects required to activate perk #5. With this build, if a survivor uses an exhaustion perk within 32 meters, they will gain haste, exhausted, oblivious, blindness, hindered, exposed, and their aura will be revealed for 12 seconds.
It's a similar idea behind perks 3 and 4. You are sacrificing your power in exchange for status effects and a potential insta down. Just remember that perk #3 can apply to multiple different survivors as long as the perk is active.
The most fun part of these perks is the potential to spread 6 different status effects to multiple survivors. I am aware that vigil might counter these perks, but vigil is gonna be strong regardless. Vigil needing a nerf is a whole other topic. They really need to split Vigil into 4 separate perks.
Wow, ok so they did end up gutting vigil… Hopefully this means they'll add more fun status effect perks/powers!
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I love the idea; but sadly, certain killers with specific, niche, builds would turn this hex rework into a new meta that everyone would complain about. This rework seems more geared towards M1 killers, which I love playing btw. However, Special attack killers would 100% bully and dominate survivors, making the game more unbalanced than it already is.
Consider updating your idea with special attack killers in mind; and remember, there are a lot of them. -
@crogers271 said:
Perk 1: If the survivor knows what they are doing, when they become oblivious, they know the killer is 32 m away, defeating the point of being oblivious.
Perk 2: I don't know if we need to stack blindness on top of oblivious. This seems either useless or broken against soloq depending on how frequently oblivious can be put in. Blindness is already a troublesome stat given the vast difference between SWFs and soloq on how much it hurts.
Perk 3: Tier 1 is fine, but I don't really like the idea of helping out bloodlust. Tier 2 seems meaningless. Tier 3, no, that's just silly.
Perk 4: I don't think we should mess around with how fast bloodlust is gained.
Perk Rework: So they are blind and hindered? What are they supposed to do?
Perk 5: Again, this seems to be either useless or broken depending on what killers/perks come out in the future. Also a killer would likely heavily invest into their build to pull it off, and if the survivors have Vigil they are in a lot of trouble.
Haste, Boons, Hexes, and elusive all count as status effects. Some killer powers and addons also count. If you combine perks 1,2,5, and the reworked Overwhelming Presence; you could punish survivors with exhaustion perks. Even if they don't bring exhaustion perks, most killers have some sort of exhaustion addon. The only reason the perk rework applies hindered to blinded survivors is so that survivors reach the 5 status effects required to activate perk #5. With this build, if a survivor uses an exhaustion perk within 32 meters, they will gain haste, exhausted, oblivious, blindness, hindered, exposed, and their aura will be revealed for 12 seconds.
It's a similar idea behind perks 3 and 4. You are sacrificing your power in exchange for status effects and a potential insta down. Just remember that perk #3 can apply to multiple different survivors as long as the perk is active.
The most fun part of these perks is the potential to spread 6 different status effects to multiple survivors. I am aware that vigil might counter these perks, but vigil is gonna be strong regardless. Vigil needing a nerf is a whole other topic. They really need to split Vigil into 4 separate perks.
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I must have miss-timed it then… It's a deceivingly long animation. Thank you guys, did not know this.
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I've been wondering the same thing! Although, I highly doubt they will let us change the color of auras that are overridden by certain perks. For example, perks like eruption, call of brine, or surveillance change the default gen color after you damage it. I have always disliked how eruption and surveillance don't have the best synergy because the generator remains yellow even if it has stopped regressing, the generator will only turn white after you've downed someone.
That being said, I believe that the developers did this on purpose as a kind of "mini nerf" for bringing multiple "op" gen regression perks. On the other hand, lots of other gen regression perks have no such nerfs and can be used together despite being strong. If by some miracle they do allow us to change the color of all these perks, they would need to add a customizable color setting for each and every perk which overrides default auras; and I highly doubt they'll do that. At the very least I hope they will let us change the color of killer items.
As for auras with dynamic intensities: I hope they set the color to your chosen default and increase its brightness over time.
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@AssortedSorting You're right, my original post was made quickly and without much thought; that's because I have a job and a life outside of this forum. Anyway, your explanation seems much more thought out than mine. I especially like your category descriptors like "Mobility" and "Lethality"; that's exactly what I was trying to get at. Finally, I think all perks in the roster should have an opportunity to show up; even if they're "low-tier". My original idea was: if you're at an advantage you should only be presented with low-tier perks; if you're at a disadvantage you should be presented with higher-tier perks to choose from. Yes, that is a vague description and I'm not too sure how to balance nor design it beyond that; but thank God it's not my job to figure it out either. I'm just hoping someone at BHVR will take my free ideas as inspiration to come up with even better ideas of their own. Thank you for your constructive criticism.
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Ok, I have since checked the official stats tracker. It does indeed show the loadouts of all players within the previous 10 matches. However, I see no option to report any individuals through the stats website, it doesn't even show their usernames. What's the point of using the stats tracker as a "cheater detecting" tool if they're not going to let you actually report them? They really need to add a reporting feature to the stats tracker; either that or they need to display the killer's loadout post-match if everyone disconnects. Obviously, the former option is more preferable for reasons others have stated within this discussion itself.
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@moputopia I was completely unaware of that resource, thank you for sharing this with me! I can't believe I've never heard of an official stats tracker for this game. I will use the official DBD statistics tracker from now on.
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@CompetitifDBD said:
If you dc, you're willingly leaving a match early. You don't deserve to see anything, thats your punishment for not sticking out a match.
You can also check the Stat Tracker when the match is completed. That tells you what perks, items and add ons people had
What's a stat tracker? I'm assuming you're talking about the end game score board, which also shows all player perks. If so, you would know that the killer's loadout is hidden until all survivors (including bots) are dead or sacrificed, it doesn't reveal the killer's loadout if ALL FOUR survivors DC; and that's what I have an issue with.
Deducing the killer's loadout is a huge aspect of the game, and it is required to come up with a counterattack as survivor. That being said, I can't tell you how many times I've kept a mental track of what perks and add-ons the killer is using, only to reach the stat tracker surprised that the killer did not have a specific perk equipped despite demonstrating their ability to use it during a match. I've been playing this game for almost 5 years; I've reported dozens of blatant cheaters and almost every single one has been banned. My main issue is that I don't want to waste the developer's time by filing tons of erroneous reports; therefore, displaying the killer's loadout once ALL FOUR survivors disconnect would help prevent wrongful accusations.
I can't help but notice you completely avoided my argument revolving around subtle cheating killers. You can't just pretend like subtle cheating is non-existent, it has been a persistent issue with this game ever since BHVR decided to make DBD free for a day. I'm sorry, but your response sounds like a lazy excuse to avoid catching and reporting subtle cheaters to me. At the end of the day, I am only looking to improve the game and make it fun and fair for everyone.
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Ok… I get it. Gen Rushing beats Face Camping; yippee. But that's besides my main point; and so… regardless of all that, the following quote sums up my thoughts exactly:
@MarbleThrone said:
Either all killers should be able to use power near a hooked survivor, or none of them.
No cherry picking, no blindfolded pointing fingers saying 'you can but you can't', none of that.
All or nothing. -
@Sleem said:
I think being able to gamble the outcome is a good idea, but it needs to function in such a way that doesn't lead to one side throwing just to win bets.
But everyone's classification of winning is different so it would be a slippery slope in my opinion.
I guess each wager could be limited to a relatively "normal" or "fair" amount of bp. For competition's sake, I'd like to be able to bet 1 million bp if I could.
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I've heard people mention this is a cheat or hack that can be triggered at will by bad actors. Now I'm thinking maybe it's an exploit.
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I think a feature like this would make the game much more interesting for long time players and new ones as well! Not to mention it would encourage competition, cooperation, and coordination in survivors. On the other hand, this feature could allow killers to trick or lure survivors into focusing on side-objectives or wasting time in general. Of course, either party could take a risk in an attempt to bluff the other out with their own wagers. For example, a killer could say "I bet 50,000 bloodpoints you can't open or rummage through 6 chests" (bold numbers are customizable). In this scenario, the killer could bring a cut coin to prevent the survivor(s) from completing this challenge at all (only 3 chests spawn by default); but this can be countered if the survivor brings a shiny coin with the right perks. I mean, imagine the possibilities.
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In my opinion, if a survivor makes it behind a wall before the ghoul reaches them with a special attack, the attack should not do damage. Of course, the ghoul would still gain some distance and even slow the survivor down for a bit, but the damage should be prevented. This change would make his special attack a free hit but only in open spaces, through windows, and other low obstacles. I would even go as far as to say that crouching near low obstacles should prevent his special attack from connecting, just like the Nemesis (but that's debatable). This change would provide survivors with some sort of counterplay to his special attack, one which would require quick thinking and skill.
That being said, I think the biggest issue with this killer is his ability to manually cancel his power and its extremely short cooldown thereafter. For most people, this seems to be the most frustrating aspect of his power because he can already get free injures + deep wound base-kit. The best solution for both sides would be to nerf his base-kit manual cooldown and rework one of his rare addons to buff it slightly. Even with the reworked addon, his manual cooldown should not be as short as it is now. Also, why does his special attack even apply deep wound base-kit? They should turn that into an uncommon addon, his power is already strong enough without it.
If they implemented even one of these changes, I'm sure the ghoul would feel much more balanced. I've tried many different builds, and by far exhaustion perks + windows of opportunity + flashlights seem like the best counter to him. But even with all that, a lot of maps have huge dead zones, hardly any windows, or they're just very small and pallets get burned through. I've noticed smaller maps feel extremely unfair when going against this killer, especially when he's enraged. In short, yes, he could use a nerf or two…
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@Devil_hit11 said:
it sounds like a killer that would indirect pseudo mori players. similar to 2.0 sadako, the amount of life that survivor would have would not be off condemn curse stacks but would directly be related to survivor's bleed out timer.
I particularly like the exposed aspect part of the ability where you earn expose hits by being successful with special ability. my only critic is that the power might need some map traversal in its ability. Looking at Oni and Twins, both of those killer have some faster movement speed and mobility in their kit so that they can more easily bounce from survivor to survivor. Maybe the Soul reaper can turn into Phantom ghost where you cannot attack, see survivors and you move faster(130% m/s), survivors that you attacked leave orbs on the floor in the Ghost world. you can teleport to the orbs and each time you pick up an orb, you gain a stack of rage. When the orb is picked up, the reaper exits the ghost world and ghost's world ability goes on cooldown. Say 25 seconds. there is say a max of 20 orbs in floor.
So as you hit & run people with special attack, you gain map mobility as the trial progresses. The ghost world would work similar to spirit phase-walk but it would have an unlimited duration.
The idea is cool but any time BVHR invents some slugging type killer, they put weird drawbacks on the killer…. like Victor being kidnap for 30 seconds or Oni loses -8 seconds of his power gauge every time he downs someone making the killer less fun :(
Yeah… At the end of the day, this would be a slugging type killer, which I know many people will dislike.
And I agree, the lack of a map traversal ability would make this killer difficult to land his power and apply pressure. I was thinking maybe the addon which triples special attack lunge distance, speed, and cooldown could become basekit. Or maybe you could simply gain 10% haste while enraged as basekit.
I'm sure there's other options but I just didn't want this character to become too similar to existing killers. Honestly, I feel like a similar bleed-out mechanic could be implemented into the Legion's power but I doubt the devs would want to rework him again. Even some of the Soul Reaper's addon ideas were inspired by the Legion's existing addons.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3808419#Comment_3808419
cenobite can camp right now with engineer fang. you can injure someone from very long range actually, recover and m1. downed from heathy to injured. face-camp/proxy camping cenobite is very dangerous if he has engineer fang. it completely delete his actual 1vs1 chase potencial but camping is surely there. original pain doesn't allow you to prevent hook but you can tunnel through BT like no one cares.
Yeah… I think more of his addons should change the behavior of the Lament Configuration in new, but balanced, ways.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3808419#Comment_3808419
So your solution to a Pinhead nerf, is to punish doctor players, for a thing most if not all other killers can do as good or better?
I was just being sarcastic to get your attention, especially now that they've announced he's getting some changes soon. Of course, they should remove his deep wound add-on which promotes camping and tunneling. In exchange, they should bring back his ability to prevent hook actions; they can balance this further by only summoning one extra chain if successful.
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@Zuiphrode said:
His power's entire thing is literally "interrupt someone's actions for 2.5 seconds".
Just like Pinhead's power…
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Well, if it's so easy to dodge, how come they removed this from the Cenobite's power? That's all what I want to know.
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I'm more upset because they removed this from the Cenobite's power, and only him.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Any decent huntress can do the same if the scenario is camping, and she will even down you for trying to unhook. Same with nurse, billy, blight, wesker and bubba perhaps even more killers..
Except for the Cenobite.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I like your creativity, however these type of threads belong in the Feedback & Suggestions sub forum and not General Discussions. It will likely be moved.
Though I hope you get some solid feedback from others 👍
Yeah, it moved. Honestly, I wish I knew more about how his power works. I'm not sure about how the box's cooldown works in the live game.
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I've encountered plenty of blatant cheaters lately. I try my best to report them, and I love receiving notification that they've been banned. I can only imagine how many subtle cheaters are out there. There are plenty of times it's impossible to tell if they're just lagging or actually speed hacking. Other times, there's just one survivor cheating but they make it look like others are cheating. What's more concerning is that what happened to Apex Legends might come over to DBD. Where they can literally modify a user's files through the game and even install files. I've gone as far as to uninstall Apex Legends for this reason. I'd hate to do the same for DBD.
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If DBD falls for an attack similar to those in Apex Legends, I'm uninstalling. They can literally download files onto your computer through Apex.
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Honestly, I don't think this should be a top priority for the devs. Hillbilly and Blight are very strong outside of this niche tech. Although it sucks for Demos.
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Pinhead can't injure survivors with his power alone when he doesn't have engineer's fang. If you read the perk description for both save the best for last and play with your food, you'll see that they're working as intended. Personally, I disagree with how save the best for last is intended to work. In my opinion, stbfl shouldn't remove stacks If a survivor isn't injured as a result of special attacks.
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Right, a hindered survivor only affects the speed difference between them and the killer, regardless of the killer's speed. Also, purple bottles do 10% hindered? I thought it was 5% this whole time, oops. After all is said and done, I want to circle back to the meme-clown-haste build from my original post. In a best-case scenario, the haste equation should look like this:
115% (default clown speed) x 110% (yellow bottle) x 105% (batteries included) x 105% (one stack of pwyf or rapid brutality) x 103% (gin bottle) x 102% (soda bottle) = 146.5% or 5.86 m/s
Then, if you use a purple bottle to hinder a survivor, the speed difference would be:
146.5% - 90% = 56.5% or 2.26 m/s
Now that I think about it, replacing the soda bottle with flask of bleach might be better. The addons says "additional 4%" so I'm assuming that would make survivors 86% hindered. If so, it would increase the speed differential slightly. All of that combined with a dead dawg saloon offering (one of the smallest maps) and stbfl would solidify this as a meme build. Similar to scratch mirror Myers with a Lery's offering. In hindsight, this type of build doesn't need a nerf since it's very situational (speed isn't guaranteed outside of bottles). Even the best-case scenario described above requires a specific playstyle which is not always achievable. This build could be countered even if only one survivor brings a sacrificial ward, any map offering, prevents a 3-gen scenario (deja-vu), and if the obsession takes protection hits.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3692583#Comment_3692583
I factored in the 115% of the survivor movement speed for Clown as the third multiplyer, so that makes no difference. You'll often see people refer to 4.6 m/s killers as 115% killers because that's their movement speed relative to a survivor's speed.
Each modifyer is calculated on their own and then multiplied. 115% for the killer's movement speed, 3x5%+100% for the 3 stacks of PWYF and of course the 100%+10% for the yellow bottle.
So we get: PWYF modifyer x yellow bottle modifyer x killer speed modifyer relative to to the survivor = 115% x 110% x 115% = 145%. Now we multiply it with the reference speed of 4.0 m/s as 100% and get 5.8 m/s.
The 0.6 m/s speed difference between killers and survivors is indeed affected by the modifyers. Hillbilly's old 9.2 m/s speed for example came from his base movement speed being doubled. So his speed was calculated with 200% x 115% = 230%. If they had calculated it with the 100% reference (without considering the speed difference), then it would have been 200% x 100% + 15% = 215% = 8.6 m/s. So the devs consider the total speed and apply the modifyers to that.
I will admit: the part about PFYW could be (100%+5%)^n with n = number of PWYF stacks too but I believe I read somewhere that this is actually added up instead of being multiplied. In case of 3 stacks this would mean roughly 115.7%, so it wouldn't make a big difference anyway but I feel like I should mention it regardless.
Thank you for taking the time to explain all of this, I understand it much better now. If I use the Clown's base-kit bottles, without pwyf, would the equation look like this:
115% (default clown speed) x 110% (yellow bottle) x 105% (purple bottle) x 4 m/s (default survivor running speed) = 5.31 m/s (clown speed with haste and hindered survivor)
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@Xernoton said:
This is a non issue. Even getting 1 stack already takes quite a bit of work because you need to find the obsession and start a chase with them. For a killer like Clown, who has no mobility, this is a big time investment. Not to mention a perk they cannot use for something else. Like slowdown.
To fix this you could bring Nemesis but even that has a lot of counterplay and it's 2 perks wasted at that point. It doesn't get better, if you use more perks for that and getting more than 1 stack of PWYF on Clown takes forever. You'll easily spend 30 seconds just chasing and getting stacks without actually hitting or downing anyone. On top of the time it takes to even find the obsession. Then you still need to chase, which takes about another 15 seconds at best. So your chase takes about 45 seconds and now you have 1 stack left. That is terrible.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3692471#Comment_3692471
Your math is off. Movement speed modifyers are not added but multiplied.
So for Clowns max movement speed you get: (3x5%+100%) x (100% + 10%) x 115% = 145% = 5.8 m/s, which sounds very impressive on paper but is actually not that good considering it takes a lot of set up and is reduced as soon as you land a hit or the yellow bottle effect wears off.
This is the first time I'm hearing about this. Btw, I think you accidentally multiplied 145% by 4.00 (survivor speed) instead of 4.60 (clown speed); unless speed modifiers also override the killer's base movement speed to 4.00 (idk, now I'm confused). Also, I'm assuming 3x5%+100% represents pwyf stacks, but I'm not sure where you're getting 100%+10% or 115%. Please enlighten me, this math ain't mathing.
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@fulltonon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3692299#Comment_3692299
Clown is meant to be used with haste AND slow, not just one.
You're right, I forgot to take that into account before. If we consider purple bottles as haste for the clown, that will make him 32% faster than the survivor. You can use the following equation to determine any killer's speed with various haste percentages (you should try it):
Base-kit haste in addition to killer speed: 10% yellow + 5% purple + 100% = 115% → 1.15 Default clown speed: 4.60 m/s Clown speed with bottle haste: 1.15 * 4.60 m/s = 5.29 m/s Running Survivor Speed: 4.00 m/s Difference between clown speed relative to survivor speed: (5.29 / 4.00) - 1.00 = 0.3225 → 32%
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@mizark3 said:
Imagine if you could damage someone by filling up a bar on the Survivor with your M2 that also applied Broken when injuring them, and that Killer also didn't lose PWYF stacks when using that M2. That would be crazy and even more broken.
Clown used to drop PWYF stacks on bottle toss, so I think its a bug. You should probably report it as a bug thread instead.
Sounds like something the Plague would be capable of. Though, I'm not sure if that's how it works, I haven't unlocked her yet.
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@bjorksnas said:
Clown isn't the best user of PWYF the killers with instant downs who don't lose stacks for mobility are because they can use stacks more efficiently or need a hit to get the ball rolling, id say oni / bubba / myers use it better than clown can ever hope to
I actually never play as those killers so I wasn't sure how pwyf interacts with them. Why should insta down killers with mobility benefit more from extra speed when slower killers could use the boost?
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@fulltonon said:
Who even needs PWYF when clown can like 50% faster than survivors BASEKIT?
It doesn't matter if power not loses PWYF stack, ultimately you have to hit twice to get a down, and every killer except one shotters are pretty much bad user of PWYF.
Basekit yellow bottles provide 10% haste. That would make the Clown 26.5% faster than survivors, not 50%. However, by using the build described in my original post, you can become almost 40% faster than survivors with the Clown.
This is why I think reworking the clown and the cenobite's powers into different special attacks might be a balanced nerf to such a speed build. Although, this is probably too much to ask for.
The main idea here is that, pwyf and/or killer powers should be buffed/reworked to favor m1 killers who also lack speed. Admittedly, my solution might not be the best but I'm open to ideas.
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@Snowbawlzzz said:
A clown that runs both invigoration addons + PWYF is essentially putting all his eggs in one basket, and it's a meme build. That Clown would do much better running cigar box + garish makeup kit or bleach + chloroform with slowdown perks.
But meme builds are fun lol. In my experience, off-meta builds throw people off most of the time. Isn't that healthy for any game?
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@Ohyakno said:
Clown doesn't have the time to find the obsession and lose chase with them multiple times. This is just theory crafting. Clown gets spooky scary 135% haste or whatever. Then he gets 130% haste or when he hits someone. Then 125. Then 120. He's still vulnerable to predropping, camping pallet like always. Like when's the last time you even saw PWYF? I've literally only ever seen it on Myers. Why would you want to further nerf an already niche perk?
And what do you mean 15% haste "for free"? You're using addon slots. That's not free. You'd have to forgo his best add-ons to run a bizzare niche chasing build.
Like I said, I've tested this Clown build in public matches. I'm not theorizing, I'm explaining how most of my matches went. That's what I meant when I said, "On average, you're more likely to only gain 20 to 25% haste with this build". That's 15% from his bottles + maybe one stack of 5% from pwyf, and maybe 5% from batteries included. Also, I completely forgot to mention that his purple bottles do about 5% hindered on survivors, that might as well be a 5% haste for Clown on top of everything else.
If a survivor pre-drops a pallet at the start of the game, you can drop a yellow bottle on it, kick it, and catch up with the equivalent of tier 3 bloodlust (despite having kicked the pallet), or drop chase to pressure a 3 gen. If you always hook a survivor near a 3 gen, you're basically guaranteed to gain pwyf or stbfl stacks. If someone leads you away from the 3 gen, you can use batteries included to gain 5% haste to get a hit or down. You can also drop chase with the obsession quicker by using yellow bottles and you don't lose pwyf stacks for kicking pallets.
Also, I don't think you realize just how much 15% haste by itself actually is on a 4.6 killer. You can consistently use his bottles right before starting chase, kicking a pallet, wall, generator, or picking up a survivor. He doesn't even need to find a locker to reload, that's what I mean by "for free". Most other killers can't even reach a total of 15% haste at any point in time, let alone 35%.
Don't even get me started on Myers, he deserves a separate discussion.
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I like this idea. I think it should activate within 24 meters from the exit and should last for 15 seconds. This perk, by itself, would basically guarantee one final hook and maybe a slug on the side. In my opinion, this effect should only apply to the nearest exit gate, not both.
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If you turn on mute focus in the audio settings, you can quickly double tap the windows key to mute the entire scream. You'd just need to time it right.