VomitMommy
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@mikewelk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3589804#Comment_3589804
You haven't asked for any. Funnily enough I mentioned a change with the lock on meter requiring an extra token but that went over your head. It is hard to win against her, unless you have a SWF then that's another story.
Yeah, I mainly talk about SWF, because that's what you should balance around in my opinion.
If SWF can do it, then you should ask how to improve soloQ in away that it can also win more reliably.
Solution is not to nerf any killer you don't like to face as soloQ.
requiring an extra token
That doesn't fix any of your chase issues, It also doesn't make it more fun in any way. It just makes her power worse.
How is that good change exactly?
But sure, we can make it require 1 more token, but display number of tokens each survivor has so Skull merchant can play around it.
You haven't asked for any.
I have asked so many questions to be ignored. You even denied to want her deleted at start...
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3589750#Comment_3589750
Every killer is balanced around solo queue. If they were balanced around the top 1% SWF, no one would play the game.
killer should be balanced around top 1%. if the top 1% can escape skull merchant than you can escape skull merchant because if your a lower % player, you will not face top % skull merchant player. for example, if your 90% player, you will face 90% skull merchant players which makes mistakes. this is refer to as trickle down balance.
Also. congrats on assuming my skill and playstyle, was waiting for it. I do leave loops because I know how to waste time with her, my solo queue team doesn't. It's not my only argument, it's just the only part of the discussion you read.
The game is balanced around 4vs1. if your team is no good and plays poorly, it is not killer fault. The killer is just capitalize off weak-links. you only deserve escape if your teammate also play well.
Never heard term "trickle down balance" before, but it was interesting to look into it. Thanks for that.
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@mikewelk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3589770#Comment_3589770
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/17FVEDUZL54S/image.png
I'll just leave this here. If she's so perfect as you make her out to be, explain this. Most unfun killer to face, the second worst being Knight at 54% always boring.
So what? You think this change anything?
Boring is not a major issue that should lead to nerfs. It can lead to rework, but not really straight nerfs.
- It's not hard to win against her
- She can't lock you in game for 1 hour
Most if it is still after effect from her previous version anyway.
It's simple, do you have any solution how to make her fun for you while still keep her viable?
I haven't seen any suggestion how to change her except you wish to delete her...
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@mikewelk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3589671#Comment_3589671
Plague and Skull Merchant are completely different. Let's not go down that alley. With the exposed she did have, you would just W key away unless you were injured because it wouldn't affect you. Now it doesn't matter whether you're injured or not, the drones will have an effect on you.
Does undetectable not work on certain maps? You might want to report that in the bug section.
Every killer is balanced around solo queue. If they were balanced around the top 1% SWF, no one would play the game. That's just the truth. Pinhead isn't that crazy to face on solo queue, yes it is boring but I like facing him. I think everyone most would agree that Pinhead is a better killer to face than Skull Merchant.
The main element of DBD is the chasing. It puts you in a 1v1 scenario vs the killer and its where skill and mindgames come into play. That's not possible with Skull Merchant because there is no skill involved. It makes the most fun part of DBD boring, unless doing generators excites you more. The game also doesn't have to be enjoyable for you so don't come at me with such a remark.
Also. congrats on assuming my skill and playstyle, was waiting for it. I do leave loops because I know how to waste time with her, my solo queue team doesn't. It's not my only argument, it's just the only part of the discussion you read. Remember when you told me those two counterplays? Those were alreaady mentioned in my discussion. You didn't read it at all, only what you liked.
you would just W key away unless you were injured because it wouldn't affect you
suddely it's just W key away... I thought that's your whole issue
Does undetectable not work on certain maps?
No, it doesn't work well on open maps. So what I don't have TR when they can see me... effectivness changes a lot based on specific map
Every killer is balanced around solo queue.
and when did you get that idea? What changes made you think this game is balanced around soloQ? Sadako rework seems soloQ friendly to you?
That's not possible with Skull Merchant because there is no skill involved.
Her chase is not really that strong anymore, she would not get even into top 5 for 1v1 killers.
I have played mainly chase merchant before her nerfs, you know why it was way better? Totems. Blood warden, or devour hope gave survivors no chance. Well guess what, she can't defend totems at all now. That was nerfed into the ground -> another thing that got way worse.
It's not really hard to get long chase against her. She is still just M1 killer, her hindred takes forever to get, unless you tagged survivor multiple times before you commit to the chase.
She can't bypass pallets, she can't get over windows. All those resources work against her.
you told me those two counterplays? Those were alreaady mentioned in my discussion. You didn't read it at all, only what you liked.
Really? You ask the question -> I answer. Then you complain it's something you knew? It's not my fault you don't like the answer :D
Of course I read your whole post, but you should just ask correct questions.
congrats on assuming my skill and playstyle, was waiting for it
When exactly did I say that?
30 seconds is generic, you shouldn't get down faster than that against most killers. That works for everyone.
You don't like to leave loop? Well, you said it multiple times. Not really assuming...
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3589677#Comment_3589677
STBFL is common because it is an M1 Killers dream perk. It helps shave all the worthless time in chase, and allows for double hits when the Survivor misplays (bad drop angles or runs into a wall or more).
If you notice them you take the free hit. That forces them to now spend 16 real time/32 gen seconds healing after they walk over to find someone to heal them. Now you also have the choice of the 2 injured Survivors as to who you want to chase. The chase got longer by taking the free hit, but it got longer by less than the gen progress was lost by the Survivors by having the person shadow the chase and run back and forth to get healed.
If 3 people simply did gens, you have (chase time x 3) gen seconds. If you have a FTP+BU user (successfully using it), you have (chase time x 2) + an additional chase time x 1, with the added risk of a snowball potential on the Survivor side by having an extra injury, and a grouped gen once they heal (60s later). In the best case the Survivors tie on gen times, (and prevents an early tunneled kill), but in most cases they lose health states for no (long-term) beneficial reason.
The only circumstance I agree it can be powerful is when people are using it to prevent an early tunnel kill. I go for 6-8 hooks before my first kill though, so I view nothing of value being lost. It helps to improve Killer skill to delay the first kill as long as possible, and it lets Survivors play the game longer, so unless the match is played for money, its a win-win to not tunnel.
I mean, do you think flashlight save / bodyblocking is worth it in DBD?
I would say yes.
Buckle up + for the people makes it guaranteed to happen.
Thing is when we used it in few games, we basically used it to save resources. Basically instead of dropping shack pallet, survivor greed it like crazy and when got downed we saved with FTP.
Of course it doesn't work when survivor waits there for a minute watching you chase, but that survivor nearby means I don't have to care about getting downed and can just greed everything and killer can't really stop it.
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@UndeddJester said:
I want to preface by saying I actually do like Skull Merchant personally.
I do however feel the combined effect of Hindered and Haste is a bit too much, and makes SMs kit feel cluttered, as if effects were stapled on until she finally became strong... and unfortunately haste is an easy way to make something powerful.
Being scanned by a drone while claw trapped needs something for it to be meaningful, but 10% Hindered is a pretty gross feeling to be hit by, an when it hits in conjunction with a minimum of a 3% haste boost to Skull Merchant, its a near guaranteed 13% swing, and that is pretty awful to be hit by, whether it was genuinely earned or not.
Not sure what could be done instead really that would be a worthwhile punishment for running into drone though that doesn't feel incredibly cheap. Maybe just SM gets an additonal 5% boost, so at least it is SM catching the survivor instead it breaking their ankles?
sure, wouldn't mind to zoom more.
Issue is there needs to be something so survivors can't completely ignore her drones while injured.
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Or they could implement ingame statistics. Like most games do. I would love to compare my killers.
You already have websites that can do it, so information is clearly there.
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That's the most useless perk I have ever seen.
Current version works as anti stealth too.
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@mizark3 said:
It certainly is annoying, but is super easy to deal with in the vast majority of circumstances.
- It can't be used if the Survivor is injured, so spreading pressure protects the Killer from an unwanted pickup.
- If the rescuing Surv is shadowing the chase the entire time, the Killer has 33% gen slowdown. That's better than Pentimento.
- The rescuing Survivor has to run during the hit CD of 2.7s, or reach ~11m distance. Outside of Ripley's Light Step, they can be seen and heard (only seen with Light Step), and most times give a free hit in the attempt (either during or prior).
- Even in the worst case scenario of the combo going off, the Killer still gets to hit one of them to prevent any other Endurance effect, and the FTP user can't heal for 60s to use it again. As such, simply hit the originally downed Surv after pickup and down them in chase normally again. Alternatively bodyblock windows/pallets/chokepoints and get a free hit or 2. If a Killer is taking ~80s (Broken+Heal timer) to down a single health state in chase, they have greater problems than this combo.
Should it exist? No. Is it a problem? Also no (assuming the Killer has a modicum of skill/functioning brain).
Kinda an issue is it's lose lose scenerio.
Let's say I notice survivor behind me, what can I do?
- ignore them and commit to down -> they get easy save with For the people, now I have to either wait 10 seconds and hope for the best, or hit them for mending
- turn around to injure them -> that's basically bodyblock, where they didn't even need correct position
Doesn't matter what you do, your chase just got longer because of it.
That's why STBFL is used so much lately, it's simply best thing we have against it.
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@saintjimmy456 said:
After complaining about Prove Thyself, the devs reduced its strength.
After complaining about Brand New Part, the devs reduced its strength.
After complaining about Dead Hard, devs reduced its strength.
After complaining about Made For This, devs are about to reduce its strength.
They released Xeno which destroyed survivors so bad it was the focus of every topic for like 2 solid months.
They're just about to release a new killer that some pros are saying is one of the strongest to ever be put in the game.
"This game has become SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO survivor sided it's BS." 😂
Brand new part didn't really get worse. It got from 30s to 26s on gen, but new effect basically reduce effectivness of any killer slowdown. So in some situations, it's better. I wouldn't call that a nerf.
4 seconds as trade off for 10% nerf on any killer slowdown for that gen sounds good to me.
They released Xeno which destroyed survivors so bad it was the focus of every topic for like 2 solid months.
So wanna talk about current state of Xeno too? Not really popular killer anymore after his nerfs...
After complaining about Made For This,
So two months of Xeno were terrible, but this is fine... You know, 5 months of faster survivors.
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@mikewelk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3589036#Comment_3589036
Her drones can injure AND hinder survivors for a easy follow-up hit that you can predict very easily by the beam's placement and the HUD (for tracker progress), she gets undetectable which allows stealthy maneuvers out of seemingly no where, the undetectable helps with mind-games, etc. I'm too tired right now to provide an entire list but these are ones you cannot even deny are buffs.
Her drones can injure you, if you let them. It's nothing she can really force. It give you speed boost, unlike Plague.
It's way worse than exposed she used to have. You could not afford to stay there, not even on different floor. You simply had to leave, otherwise you are dead. It's not the case with current drone, you can play around it.
So it is still worse than used to be...
As I said only thing that improved is her stealth, which is map dependant thing.
Most of the playerbase are solo queue. You cannot expect them to do much, let alone that.
So what? No killer should be balanced around soloQ. You think Skull merchant is bad for soloQ? Pinhead might want to talk about that. That topic would be how to improve soloQ, not nerf the killer you don't like...
I'm not. I really don't know what you're getting at.
You can't disarm them during chase, aka what this discussion is about.
You keep talking while your post is about chase and how it is not fun for you. Well, dbd is not 1v1. It's not just chase. It also doesn't have to be enjoyable for you.
Fact is she is not able to down you under 30 seconds like some other killers with better 1v1, unless you screwed it. You just don't like to leave the loop. That's your only argument, which is not really valid when I can say exactly same thing about many other killers.
You just don't like skull merchant. That's it.
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@mikewelk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3588999#Comment_3588999
I've edited my post about the bloodlust, thanks for the insight. Genuinely didn't know and don't want to spread false news.
The problem is that her ability can hinder and injure whilst also covering a larger range. Clown is deadly up close, you're definitely correct on that, especially with that iri add-on, but even that comes with -3 bottles. It's annoying when they have the aim of a God but just throwing bottles feels really stiff half the time.
Knight is quite a pain, I have to admit. There's that glitch where if you pre-drop a pallet, the guards go towards it instead of you so it's the only counter currently I can think of. Artist's counter is like Dredges, you just bait running into the crow so that they release it or just run into it and hope for the best. Artists also prefer to hit you and then finish you off with the crow if they can because it's more efficient as they might halter at the sight of the crow and, therefore, lose that speed boost from getting hit. When it comes to Skull Merchant, they tend to go in the middle of the loop so both escape points are gone and then place the drone, which leaves you with only mind-games in order to escape the loop. You can always hold W but you'll always eventually end up at a loop as they've caught up with you, if you kow what I mean.
just run into it and hope for the best
Skull merchant has exactly same counterplay :D
btw that glitch with knight works only if knight doesn't know about it.
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@mikewelk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3589030#Comment_3589030
Her ability makes them unsafe. The drones cover almost the entire loop, safe or not. I'm not going to risk getting injured by the drone because the pallet WAS safe.
The video did. If you don't have the perk, the crouching would never work. You'd lose a ton of distance.
You can't disarm them during chase, aka what this discussion is about. She has enough to last the chase. If she needs to recall some, she can.
Are you trying to balance her for 1v1? That simply doesn't make any sense.
Those lasers can't go through walls, so predropped pallet often shuts down whole loop (except some open loops on autohaven etc) and you can easily stand in check spot.
You can't disarm them, you team can when they are not in chase. She needs to use her drones on whole map, not just on chase. You seem to forgot this is team game. Killers are balanced around that, not just 1v1.
If you want to talk about just 1v1 and ignore anything else, how the hell you want to even compare her with Knight, or Deathslinger? She is way worse, it's not even close.
Just how is she a problem, when there are other killers who habe aspects you hate and they are even better at it?
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@mikewelk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3588993#Comment_3588993
Her chase potential got buffed. The whole reason the three gen situation happened was mainly because people just had that gen pressure to rely on to win. Now that the gen pressure is gone, surely all the Skull Merchant players have left as well, right? No, because her chase got buffed thanks to the rework. How bizzare, right?
Her chase is not better. You didn't list any changes why it should be the case.
So what changes about her chase:
- she has less movement speed overall -> easier to trigger 1 stack in chase, but harder to get on 2/3 stacks -> 4 stacks near impossible
- pallet breaking is gone, that was basically her main chase ending thing
- exposed status effect is gone, got replace with broken status effect, which gives movement speed -> worse
- there is hindered, which requires total of 4 scans, when there is immunity for 3 second after each scan -> it's quite rare to happen and is equivalent of bloodlust 3 -> end chase, but not worth the time
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@mikewelk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3589000#Comment_3589000
Yes, let me waste a perk slot on Nea's crouching perk and pray I have enough pallets to slow down the Skull Merchant and then get shouted at by my team as there are no pallets remaining.
Pre-dropping is not a counter to SM. Believe it or not, Skull Merchant gets her ability from people staying at loops, if you pre-drop and run away, why would she bother wasting time and breaking the pallet if she can go around? Her ability doesn't dissapear like Clown's bottles.
why would she bother wasting time and breaking the pallet if she can go around?
Oh right, because every pallet in dbd is unsafe. Clown can do it in exactly same way, except he can catch up faster, his speed boost is not tied to survivor's actions.
let me waste a perk slot on Nea's crouching perk
I have never said you need it.
Her ability doesn't dissapear like Clown's bottles.
She doesn't have infinite of them, so she will most likely recall if she wants to use them in chase. You can also disarm them.
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@mikewelk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3588993#Comment_3588993
I wanted counterplays you can use whilst in chase. Couldn't have made it any clearer with the context of the discussion. Until you provide those, I won't waste my time.
Yeah, so you just can't back it up, I see...
counterplays you can use whilst in chase
I forgot it's not possible to crouch in a chase, right? Oh wait, it is.
https://youtu.be/98mgJ0OMvUY?t=1266You can check how to play against her in this video. It's from PBT, but still works. I even put it with a timestamp for you...
I like how before you said "pre-dropping is such a good counter", when it's true about skull merchant too.
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@mikewelk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3588970#Comment_3588970
This entire discussion has a focus on a survivor being CHASED by the Skull Merchant. Not in general, just chase. Please just read.
You are good at avoiding answers, mainly because you don't have them...
I have listed two counter plays, tell me why they are not a counterplay.
You said all killers I listed has counterplay, tell me what counterplay Artist and Knight have.
I have listed 5 aspects that got worse, it's actually 6 (slowdown), you said other aspects got buffed, tell me what improved for her.
I like we established you are completely wrong about bloodlust. It's simple, when killer use power, they lose bloodlust. That's it.
You said those things, so back it up. Not really difficult if you are not wrong.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3588976#Comment_3588976
Yeah, I think I didn't convey that well enough- I was attempting to call attention to how that can happen, but not when the Skull Merchant is applying her drone mid-chase the way OP describes.
Yeah, the way how OP describes, it would never happen.
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@jesterkind said:
There's a couple things wrong with this post, that I noticed. I've not got much experience with new Skull Merchant, but there's some critical flaws in your reasoning here.
First, there are a few instances of trying to claim that a survivor has to deal with Bloodlust, the Haste from her power, and her Undetectable, but those things don't stack. If she's using her power, she doesn't have Bloodlust, and if the power's already set down it still takes fifteen seconds to reach even tier one of Bloodlust. For the kind of argument you're making, Bloodlust should be somewhat irrelevant; if the SM is using her power mid-loop, she cannot have Bloodlust.
Second, you make the claim that 10% Hindered is an obscene thing for someone who also gains Haste to have access to, but Clown has a much more easily applied 15% Hindered with much easier to apply Haste to boot, and it's clearly not a problem on him. You talk about Wesker, but his 8% Hindered is both not the strongest part of his kit, and a penalty for not taking care of his status effect, it's not something that's actually meant to help in the average chase with him- that's what Virulent Bound is for. Skull Merchant and Clown, though, primarily use that Hindered, as far as I can tell for SM anyway.
Third, I'm not sure why you're claiming a survivor leaving the loop is necessarily going to lose a health state every time they try to. That isn't the case for the other killers that force survivors to leave the loop, and I don't see why it would be for SM.
Fourth and finally, when you say that Skull Merchant gets tons of DCs and that's a clear indicator something's wrong, you have to understand that people are not approaching Skull Merchant neutrally. They are approaching Skull Merchant as a killer that has been widely hated for both legitimate and illegitimate reasons since she came out- in some people's cases, since her trailer dropped. She is a loathed killer for reasons that often border on irrational, and that is why she gets DCs at such a higher rate than other killers.
If she's using her power, she doesn't have Bloodlust
While author is mostly wrong about this just from way how it is described, it can happen.
Basically when other survivors trigger your already deployed drones (that should never happen, but it does), or when you run into while in chase (it can happen), then she would get both effects.
But that means Skull merchant did her setup before chasing and survivors didn't disarm any of her drones.
I have quite a lot of games on her and it's not regular situation.
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@mikewelk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3588956#Comment_3588956
Literally read my discussion before commenting. The problem is that there's no counterplay, unless you can name any. All the killers you listed have counterplay which is the funniest part.
So crouching to ignore her drones completely is not good enough counterplay.
So disarming her drone without any downside is not good enoughc counterplay.
All the killers you listed have counterplay which is the funniest part.
So above is not counterplay, then tell me. What counterplay does Knight, or Artist have?
Let's get more quotes from your post, sounds fun.
you can get a health state taken off for participating in a core mechanic of the game - looping. Sure, the killer needs a strong ability but this doesn't take any thought to achieve. There's no skill to it.
So wanna talk about Trapper? When you get downed...
Btw all the time you talk about deploying drones in chase, which means she doesn't have bloodlust, so kinda doesn't make sense that whole table of stacking her power with bloodlust...
10% hindered is obscene.
Can we remove that and give her pallet breaking again? Wouldn't mind...
The killer has bloodlust and 3% haste from your tracker.
Unless she deployed drone before chase and you run into it, she doesn't...
So again what other than stealth got better? Shouldn't be hard to make a list, like I did for you...
Everything except her stealth is worse. Whatever you try to bring, there is bigger nerf next to it.
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@mikewelk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3588943#Comment_3588943
Also why are we comparing the old and the new. They are quiite different in some cases. Sure, they did get weaker in some areas, but they got buffed in different areas. New issues came about due to the camping being solved. If they made Skull Merchant games cause all survivors to spawn on hook, would you argue that solving camping justifies it?
they got buffed in different areas
What other than stealth got better?
New issues came about due to the camping being solved.
What issues?
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@mikewelk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3588943#Comment_3588943
I'm only being honest about how I see things. Am I calling for her to be deleted? Not at all. An opinion doesn't invalidate an argument, you tend to put forth your opinion often. Just because she is weaker doesn't mean the problems dissapear. Call this whatever you want but its all factual.
Am I calling for her to be deleted? Not at all.
She is a flawed killer in every aspect and I myself would like her deleted out of the game.
Oh, right...
Just because she is weaker doesn't mean the problems dissapear.
What specific problems? You have to leave loop when she uses her power? That's what you don't like?
- Trapper
- Artist
- Dredge
- Singularity
- Knight
I could probably claim same thing about even more killers, but good enough.
Only fact is you don't enjoy playing against her. That doesn't mean she has problems.
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That's lot of effort just to want her to be deleted... So much work for this post, just to discard it with one sentence. No ideas, just rant.
She is still weaker than used to be.
- less information
- less movement speed bonus
- worse chase (pallet breaking gone)
- worse area denial (you can ignore her drones)
- most of her addons are really bad
only thing that improved is stealth, but that was nerfed with her addon rework, so no more infinite stealth for her. Still better, or at least to use than used to be tho.
Goal of her rework was to remove 1 hour games, which it did for sure. While she is still viable killer, buffs between PTB and live saved her a lot. So I consider that a success.
You didn't enjoy her before, you don't enjoy her now. Doesn't seem like a loss to me.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3588818#Comment_3588818
It's amazing for M1 and Stealth killers. Don't take this away from us, we only have five indoor maps out of 30.
Stealth yes, wouldn't really say M1 in general. There is so many pallets...
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3588670#Comment_3588670
Then give a good reason, perk is fine.
- needs time to get value from it
- can be denied if survivors notice it and force obsession hits
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@Aven_Fallen said:
One content creator makes a video and suddenly at least two people notice that...
The Perks should not be universal. They are the Perks of Steve, Nancy and Demo. They have been like that before. It was a nice thing that they were universal so that people who did not have access to those characters can get the Perks. Now that the characters are back, it is fine that they are tied to the Perks again.
In the end, it is not like the grind is that much more because of this. All you have to do is to bring Steve, Nancy and Demo to P1 and you have the Perks in your Bloodweb again.
(And yes, people will have to buy the Chapter to achieve that. However, this is what BHVR wants and also needs. BHVR needs to make money. And if the Perks would be universal, players would maybe buy Demo, but not Steve or Nancy (as long as they are not a Fan of ST or just completionists), because they are just skins).
So they should create new perks universal, where at least one is decent slowdown (killer) and one is anti tunnel (survivors).
That works too.
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@WiseTraveler said:
@Spirit_IsTheBest If you Ruin isn't a hex perk does it come with the kill switch of turning off after one kill?
Funny is if they keep 100% and dying part just make it standard perk, it would definetly buff it and people would use it when they don't want to kick gens and just chase.
It wouldn't work with eruption, or pop so that's a good start.
I would like to see that on live servers how broken it would be. I think it would be really popular perk if it wasn't hex even in current form. It would let you just chase and ignore gens, that's always more fun.
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Just make it 200% and keep dying part, or at least 150%. I don't really have an issue with that.
I will much rather take % buff over removal of dying part.
Current ruin waste more time if survivors actually try to search for it, but most will ignore it and either they find it while playing or not, you can easily push through it.
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Another quite simple way to help soloQ without affecting SWF. I support that sure.
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Btw another thing, with those changes you should display number of hooks per survivor to the killer.
It's not impossible to tunnel someone without noticing, mainly with multiple same survivors, so it wouldn't feel good to get punished for this.
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I like idea of introducing both disincentivize/incentivize mechanics for this.
I am fine with part 1 except speed boost, just not that again, we had enough... Issue is if you make it too good, you will have groups that will try to do it on purpose. Like why should survivors get so much and make killer struggle, when one survivor just gave up and killed himself on first hoook?
I don't think part 2 is good, it's simply boring and again simply makes good killers even better, which is not good thing imo.
I would much rather prefer Grim Embrace effect. It's not really good effect, but better than nothing. It's not going to destroy survivor games, you can't really abuse it with other perks like stacking slowdown. It works same for any killer.
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@HandsomeJack_049 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3588201#Comment_3588201
Yeah, they said in one of the Q&A's that Myer's is on their shortlist of killer's who are getting "reworks" (i.e., adjustments to pre-existing abilities and add-ons - not a completely new power).
Their last killer changes went quite well, which I find positively suprising. So looking forward that.
New killer perks are still bad, but better than nothing. Let's just hope there won't be anything broken like MFT in near future.
Btw if you have feedback / ideas rework, you should do it in advance. When changes get to PTB, it's unlikely to get any major changes from there.
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@HandsomeJack_049 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3587588#Comment_3587588
You should for sure make sure to voice this thought when the PTB for the Myer's rework drops sometimes (next year or in early 2025). I think that's a really good point.
They said Myers will get rework? I thought they claimed he is fine, which I disagree with tho.
He is basically getting carried by his addons. I really wouldn't mind nuke mori addons if he gets decent basekit.
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@NerfDHalready said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3587629#Comment_3587629
they can buff that part to compensate for sure, increasing the initial regression rate to default.
So how exactly you expect it to work, longer you wait as survivor faster / smaller that skill check is, right?
do you really think that always same skill check, that it possible to reliably hit is worse (for survivors) than skill check that's going to be near impossible in 20-30 seconds? Because it's need to be way faster than current version at maximum, otherwise it's garbage.
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@NerfDHalready said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3587619#Comment_3587619
i like the increasing skill check speed idea more, honestly. so killer can't go back and forth kicking gens and get free value if survivors are agressive.
You know you already get punished by slower regression at start, right? So if survivor is nearby and is decent enough to hit skill check, which is not that hard if you know about it, then you just gave them free progress.
You are just trying to make this even worse.
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@SmilingExecutioner said:
you do know this is possible on oni? like for years
lethal + infectious fright + bbq. I stomped in 2 50 on rpd in july when I was spamming oni a week or two
It's way easier with UW instead of infectious fright.
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@NerfDHalready said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3587595#Comment_3587595
unnerving is a complementing perk, it's great with coulro and merciless. overcharge would just serve its newly designed purpose, punishing survivors for abandoning gens. also it's either cooldown or the faster skill check one, not both. of course i'm not talking about a 80 second cooldown, just enough so it's not spammable. like 30 seconds.
30 sec cooldown for current effect is just bad. It could work, but you would have to change more than just that.
Basically revert all 6.7.0 nerfs and give it cooldown, that might work.
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@DrKetchup said:
If an addon doesn't see play that doesn't mean it isn't good. For those that don't understand how broken her 110% addon is.
- You have one of the best map traversals in the game.
- You can now Loop like any other killer, but you can blink through any wall.
- Pallets become unplayable against you.
And the list goes on. This is the most broken addon dbd has ever seen in the past few years, we are blessed that it's power isn't well known.
TLDR: You don't want her to be 110%, period.
TLDR: You don't want her with one blink, period.
- Best map traversal? With one blink? Blight might want to have a chat with you about this one.
- How exactly is that bad thing? You have killers that can hit you through wall and they are 115%.
- Like many other killers again
Nurse if she is decent is stronger without iri addon. Iri addon just makes her more noob friendly, but not better.
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@NerfDHalready said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3587586#Comment_3587586
you already need to play agressive against a 3 gen defending killer so new overcharge wouldn't make it worse. spam kicking killers might get very annoying and with input delay + fps spikes missing those skillchecks stop being a skill issue. i'll remind that oppression has a 80 second cd.
Yeah and oppression is not a good perk, because of that high cooldown. How often you see oppression?
If new Overcharge wouldn't make it worse, then it's just useless. Why would you use it? It would be exactly bad as Unnerving presence.
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@DrKetchup said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3587550#Comment_3587550
You do know that's the most broken addon in DBD right? Even worse than Compound 33. It removes even the little counterplay she did have. If you want her to be a 4.4 (110%) killer then you have to completely rework her power.
You think this is most broken addon in dbd? Really? It's far from most broken, it's far from even being good.
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This could work only if she was 110%, but I don't think you would like that. That would be actually harder to play against if you know what you are doing.
I want you to go play 10 games with Nurse where you can use only one blink. It's not going to be good experience.
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You could just make him work as Oni, activate with button, when you pick up you keep progress left, but your power is canceled.
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Overcharge is already not a good perk and you want it even worse...
If it would work as Coulrophobia it will be either useless or bring back 3-gen lock again, nothing between.
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@CookieBaws said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3587398#Comment_3587398
Good point, but it also makes doing gates solo at least viable. And a little inconvenience for killers who wants to impress their moms.
I'd take that.
On most maps it's viable if you can time it properly and get it under that 25% and open it on second try.
or just ignore hatch and stand at gate, that's often 50/50 if you get it.
I would understand spawning where I can see from one spot on both gates shouldn't happen, but having always best possible spawn (for survivors) is simply other extreme. I think this should be gamble for both sides.
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@CookieBaws said:
In my opinion, the gates should be fixed with furthest distance between them. Like Hawkins, School and Meatplant.
You are just asking for even more slugging during endgame.
Most killers are just unlikely to defend gates on hawkings / lerrys, distance is too big to patrol both gates.
So what do you think is going to happen when killers know even winning hatch is not going to secure them kill?
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Both are decent, but they are just completely different killers.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3587027#Comment_3587027
your post makes no sense. what does nerfing blight have to do with buffing killer and nerfing survivor?
Basekit Bond is really big deal in my opinion, that's really not going to keep status quo.
your acting like giving free base-kit borrow time is keeping the status quo. The whole point of changes is to move away from status quo. hopefully in a positive direction.
As you said Bond is not going to help bad players, it's going to help a lot for good players, but do they really need a help? Kindred would help mainly bad players, because their macro game is not good enough to guess situation just from HUD.
So change that makes bad players less miserable to play with is good and I don't see it as major issue.
Change that makes good players even better is definetly an issue.
Perhaps I worded this incorrectly. Bond does help bad players but bad player will not suddenly win every game just like borrow time does not make survivors instantly win games. When you say "Do they really need help?", the answer is no because the soloq survivor is equipping the perk but the whole point of the change is to not have near mandatory perks without being in a swf-type severe disadvantage. that is what OP post is about. Although I think WoO goes a bit too far. Just knowing what pallets are dropped is sufficient.
What doesn't make sense?
You asked what I think is wrong about this game. I answered, you didn't ask about changes related to having bond basekit. You asked about current state of the game.
What you seem to fail to understand is difference between average SWF and soloQ. You are not trying to close the gab, you are trying to make them better than SWF.
WoO is information SWF doesn't have, you could argue about drop pallets, but except shack it's not really easy call out. It makes long chases really easy, it would be nightmare if this was basekit.
Same for bond information, it's not really hard to say your generic location, but coordination for bodyblocks can be very difficult, mainly on indoor maps. There is not many players who can use clock system call outs.
base-kit borrow time is keeping the status quo
That was during time when there were many broken things, many perks and killers were nerfed since then too, current state of the game is way more balanced. Bond basekit also improved it same for everyone and it's something killer knows about.
move away from status quo. hopefully in a positive direction.
Well, I don't believe this would move game into positive direction.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3586962#Comment_3586962
UI already gives a lot of info on hook saves. most of the time, you should not be going for hook saves if your across the map. you can use bond like a radar where if you just walk like 15 meters forward, you can scan around 50-60 meters of the map. that is half the map.
You would have to make global changes either nerf other aspects for survivors or buff killers. This is simply not perk to bring into current state of the game as basekit.
curious of what is wrong with current state of the game as base-kit?
So it won't help bad survivors and good survivors are going to be even harder to deal with...
It would just remove many mistakes survivor would do otherwise.
do you find it too difficult to win games as killer? None of those efficiency errors or decision making errors are intended for soloq survivor. it is just that there is lack of base-kit information to play as team so everything in soloq at base-kit is often left to luck and chance.
curious of what is wrong with current state of the game as base-kit?
That's the thing, I don't see any major issues right now for generic games. There are some changes that would be good for sure, but nothing game breaking so far. I would probably start with nerfing blight addons. That's a good start.
Basekit Bond is really big deal in my opinion, that's really not going to keep status quo.
Kindred survivor aura reading would help, but I don't see it as something that would need other for major changes, that could be left with wait and see approach.
I don't think this would end well with Bond basekit without any other change.
As you said Bond is not going to help bad players, it's going to help a lot for good players, but do they really need a help? Kindred would help mainly bad players, because their macro game is not good enough to guess situation just from HUD.
So change that makes bad players less miserable to play with is good and I don't see it as major issue.
Change that makes good players even better is definetly an issue.
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I think Alien is in a fine spot
Well, you can just stop there. No need for rest of your post.
You are trying for full rework, that's simply not going to happen. They did it only with skull merchant, because she was so hated. Xeno is not really hated that much and also not played much since nerfs.
Higher penalty for missing made good enough counter play for survivors.
Removing fishing (drag tail down), which they didn't even mention in patch notes made Xeno quite boring in my opinion. That was fun thing to do and definetly not easy, I am not sure if they removed it on purpose, or Xeno is bugged again.
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@mikewelk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3586987#Comment_3586987
Yeah you need to go out of your way to activate the perk, but this time is greatly exaggerated. If it takes more than ten seconds, that's just a bad decision by the killer and will inconvenience them, obviously. Dredge struggles with locked lockers, true, but the game rewards too much points for the survivors to resist for simply locking them.
I don't really see how you even could nerf a perk like that so it only affects major killers but I agree, they shouldn't nerf it to the ground like MfT. Just a minor change would suffice.
I think my change would work.
I don't consider M1 killers issue for this perk, not at all.
Main issue is probably Oni, but Blight is kinda annoying too. Followed by other fast killers.
So duration is 30 base and you could remove X seconds for each scream, so you can't easily run around whole map to trigger it on everyone. Something like 8 seconds for each scream might work in my opinion.
Alternative would be simply force end it like 10 seconds after first scream. You have time to look if anyone else is nearby, but not really whole map. That sounds fair to me. I would probably go with this one, it's just easier to implement and perk would be still quite good.
Total CD would be still 60 sec, doesn't matter when it ends.