UndeddJester
UndeddJester
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@Venusa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3461248#Comment_3461248
Or it can just be optional and players who still want to show their Prestige level can do so freely. Nothing friendly happens at post-game let me tell you that LOL.
I can believe that... xD
Fair, I mostly threw it in without thinking as I personally would like to see if I'm being paired with more experienced players as a gauge of personal progression, but not like one can/should try to force anyone or take precedence. Options are options. 😏
All, friends only, hidden would be good for such a feature.
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The Resident Evil license was a massive acquisition... those games are iconic in the horror gaming scene, so you have to imagine a lot of DbD fans were probably Resi fans at one point or another.... and Wesker is one of the best killers in the game...
Also in its favour is people love the Resi characters too... so likely bought the bundle instead of using iridescents.
Ghost Face came alone... so is an easier acquisition with in game currency than the Resi roster... thats my bet.
How big was DbD when Myers was released vs. Now? That would be interesting to speculate on 🤔🤔🤔
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Probably no harm really to hide your rank in the pre game lobby. That would stop the tunneling/lobby DCs.
Post game I'd keep the ranks visible, it's a beneficial tool for potentially making friends with people who have notice you play well and have put in the time. It's also valuable for measuring your progress as a killer (I'm like 1 and 1/2 months in and have gone against a few people with higher ranks in 1 char, than I have across my whole roster combined xD).
Regards to the verbal abuse, it also sucks, though one piece of advice vs. any bully, is remove their source of power over you, however that works for you.
Some people just say "yep" or "ok" to everything. Others treat them like children and baby talk them or pretend they can't hear them. If you're like me you have fun, and be twice as insulting back to them without saying any bannable words. In your case, say something like "sorry peasant, I only talk to 75 prestige minimum, go eat mud somewhere else".
The point is to never let them see you sweat. If you ensure they can't see them getting under your skin, they can't beat you ;)
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In agreement with his power suiting the character very well, and don't really want it to change.
It seems you want to get more from Myers tier 3 where you buff a lot of numbers for a large number of actions. While I get the sentiment, Myers largely plays with the idea of 99ing in tier 2 and downing wounded survivors normally, and then popping tier 3 at the right moment to drop full health targets immediately. A lot of your changes propose going straight to tier 3 and going hard chase once there (a bit like a stealthy Oni).
The fully stalked idea I don't think will work, it sounds more like Ghost Face stalk than Myers stalk. In my experience it takes an absolute age to fully stalk a survivor, and even if you do, you are rarely gonna have it where the Hindered effect will actually proc at the same time as you want your evil within... and ofc you only get it once per survivor.
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I'd be more in favour of improving his Stalk ability to be more in my control and using it to benefit me outside of active stalk. Instead of forcing Myers to barely move when active stalking, and having addons that slightly speeds him up, I'd prefer to have more autonomy to move about but be rewarded for standing still myself instead of being forced to by the game.
So, starting to stalk reduces movement speed to Passive stalk speed (2.76m/s) as it does currently but also reduces my terror radius by 50%. This movement speed doesn't change when I see a survivor and begin active stalking, instead it charges at a maximum of 60% stalk rate, with the distance scaling drop off as is.
If however I stand still, I build stalk at the usual 100% rate of stalk at close range down to a maximum distance drop off of 40%. This would mean my build up of stalk while stood still is faster, even at longer ranges, at the cost of the fact I'm stood still.
I'd also make the Tomestone kills at Evil Within 3 trigger only after at least 4 survivor hooks (maybe 1 of each survivor, as of Myers is denying the entity), and also make it so you can trigger it against survivors on the floor... this would hopefully make the achievement less cerebral, and less crap to play as and against.
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The polarisation of MFT is actually staggering. The fact it is so polarising should indicate why a game that is fundamentally a game of tag should avoid prolonged haste.
Survivors maintain 3% isn't a big deal, it costs a health state to gain which is a significant risk, and is needed by survivors to compensate for the loss of healing the recent healing nerfs have imparted, and is an answer to the prevalent issues of camping and tunneling. Survivors look at it as a small buff that helps them succeed a little more often.
Killers maintain that the 3% is a big deal that extends chases in the most simplistic way possible, can only be countered by specific killers or perks, and widens the gulf in the killer roster so those at the bottom that are already struggling are even further behind.
Watch any streamers on DbD and survivors are laughing at how good it is, and Killers are getting very annoyed the moment they touch an m1 killer. Each extra loop an m1 killer has to take, is a loop further behind Nurse, Blight and Spirit they go.
Prolonged haste is a problem element. Every other instance of haste has a condition that you can't always control. It may or may not be something you want to use at that moment, but tough, you have to sacrifice for it. Prolonged haste is something you never want to not trigger, once you have it, its just a straight up benefit.
I'd love to see MFT be a strong survivor perk that helps vs. Camping/tunneling/slugging killers, the endurance on pick up effect has potential for it to be that, however that isn't what it is. Campers won't chase you, and Blight, Nurse, Wesker, are gonna carry on tunneling and slugging and not care about your haste. Meanwhile it's a perk that for the most part extends chase vs. Weak chase killers to simply waste their time trying to down you to buy more time for gens...
Back to the original point, you should never advocate for prolonged haste on either side. It should be a short make or break moment that you should be ACTIVELY seeking your haste boost, not getting it passively by doing what you normally would be doing anyway.
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There is always hoping for a new season of Stranger Things to come out and Netflix wanting some quick cash... especially after the recent crackdown on account sharing, they will likely look for big advertisement opportunities...
Maybe if bhvr wait for the opportune moment to strike with a deal... I'm hopeful too. Demo looks pretty fun, and Steve and Nancy are both cool characters.
Sales would explode if they got an Eddie Survivor... like it's scary to think about that money train xD
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@HugTheHag said:
Not gonna lie, I never use M&A as a FoV perk. I wouldn't notice the FoV thing being removed.
Likewise tbh, I suppose my main thought on it is being super anal about it and thinking of the name in relation to the perk... Currently if you squint and lean slightly you can see it.
Monitor and Abuse: What bigs eyes to see you with, and then slink up with less warning before being all "Surprise Big TR!!!"
If it's just the TR, and I want preface by saying ofc gameplay is FAR more important... but my OCD is sat going "eeeeeeeeeeehhhhhh not sure...." 😅
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As a Tenacity enjoyer, I wish my killers would slug more 😥
In seriousness, Boil Over feels like its in a decent spot to me. With the flip flop combo, if you down and pick up immediately it has no value, and you see you've got boil over on the HUD, and immediately know not to drop off things. You also know it for future interactions with this survivor.... It's rare you're in a situation where you can't actually make it to hook.
The aura denial doesn't affect me so badly, I actually always stick a Auric Gem on my hook cosmetics so I see a nice bright orange ball dangling there when I look for hook.
What you might consider, is if you see someone doing what you've described, acknowledge this combo might be a thing, and make a quick note of nearby hooks and don't wait to pick them up...
The wiggle strength is a bit rough as a console user... but y'know that is how its supposed to feel. Console gamers play games legit on an even keel with everyone else, without their fancy overclocked graphics cards for higher frame rates, weird graphics settings to make things easier to see, perfectly customisable control schemes and macros in configs, DPI settings they can change on the fly... honestly one has to ask if you're really a gamer any more playing on PC, or a sweaty old try hard? 😏😏😏😏😏
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3459283#Comment_3459283
That still won't help about survivors just jumping in lockers tho
@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3459283#Comment_3459283
I tanked my myers MMR until I played against potato survivors who didn’t know to hop in lockers. Best way to get it. :D
Maybe the achievement itself is the true Evil Within xD
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@Boons123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3459376#Comment_3459376
Do you mean it's basic or is it a perk?
I was thinking the perk Self Heal (which totally sucks now), so that combining it with the perks you describe would give it anti Haemorrhage utility to make it so yhe perk has a place in the game.
But discussion floor is open ofc.
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This did make me start thinking about introducing a mechanic where suvivors could take a part from an existing powered gen, breaking it and reducing its progress to 50%, and transfer said part to a gen in the 3 gen and get a 34% progression for each part applied... you'd then have to transport the other part back to the broken gen and repair that as normal... To get a complete instant repair of a 3 gen gen, you have to break 3 currently working gens...
The fact the killer would see a completed gen lose a part mean they may well start looking for people muling parts instead of just walking the 3 gen, and the time it takes to move these parts back and forth without a coordinated team would make it more interesting for the killer to patrol part routes
I would lend more brain power to this and iron out interactions to suggest this seriously if I trusted people not to use it to troll on survivor by nabbing parts of gens and holding them hostage xD
But the idea of me on Killer thinking "Ha 3 genned...", only to see 3 gens suddenly pop back up on his aura reader and going... 'oh... you bastards' was an idea that amused me 😅
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There is an argument that following the self heal nerfs, haemorrhage by proxy gets a lot stronger as an effect. It's why we see sloppy butcher and gift of pain becoming a more popular perk, because you can take advantage of applying pressure to healing Survivors and keeping them in an injured state.
This is a natural by product of the healing nerfs that this effect is much more popular and common...
A nice buff for self heal or some similar perk could be that healing yourself for 5 seconds or whatever grants a token, and if you stop healing, it spends a token disables the haemorrhage effect for 30 seconds, or whatever.
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Evil Within trophy is one I won't even attempt until DCs becoming bots is a thing XD
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I feel like the dust is still settling around the healing nerfs for survivors in general. The questions currently are: -
- Was nerfing all self healing indeed healthy for the game?
- Was it nerfed too hard?
- What, if any, elements of it should come back?
Not opposed to the idea of Self Care being reworked in light of the nerf. A simple one might be to grant it the ability to heal yourself at this current speed without a medkit, but with a medkit it stacks your healing, so you have to have both to get a strong self heal...
But adding that depends on where the dust settles on the healing nerf in general, and whether 1 perk slot and 1 add-on slot is expensive enough to allow it to return.
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I feel you, the problem you get by dividing the player base in the long-term health of game suffers, and playing with your friends makes the game far more marketable, which is needed badly for any game to succeed.
The devs have gone on record as saying the game is balanced around SWFs, and Killers do have access to strong perks to help manage SWFs. The downside is, it does crush Solo's, but that's the way it is sadly.
I made a suggestion to just give solo players an extra boost in rewards a little while back for playing the harder game mode and encourage people to pick it more... but that got a lot of the same pushback of dividing the community... So when I play solo, I don't focus too much on escaping and instead get wrapped up in tbe immersion and tension of the game instead, so I have fun.
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@fulltonon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3457322#Comment_3457322
Did you just said ruin for a perk that require you to kick a (actually two of) generators?
Ah yeah, oops xD
Brain fart moment
However you got my point very succinctly. This perk is a pain in the ass to get to work, but when it does, it's ridiculously strong in chase to the point a survivor can't really do anything.
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The problems with really strong survivor perks, is all survivors are the same.
If there was a limit of 1 copy of a perk for the whole team, then MFT wouldn't be so bad, but the fact everyone can run it means that putting such a powerful tool in survivor hands, means they can all abuse its power...
There shouldn't ever really be a perk on survivor that everyone values over all others... and be honest, would you ever not take MFT on survivor?
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@AetherBytes said:
Machine Learning has the same finnicky game as Coup; one use per Gen, except machine learning requires guessing which Gen will be completed next, and failing to do so causes a use to be permanetly lost. Not just that, but it activates immedietly when the Gen is done, which means it can be totally wasted.
Made for this rewards you for getting hit (which last I checked no one liked killers getting noed and being rewarded for losing gens), is always active until you're exhausted (which if you don't use exhaustion perks almost all sources of exhaustion in the game have laughable timers, and if you do use them you still get value until your exhaustion perk kicks in and saves you, which takes longer because of haste), and stacks. Think of it this way. if you have MFT and Hope, hag literally cannot catch you, you're 110%. Huntress, deathslinger and trickster also can't catch you without M2. You have ample time against most 115% killers to not even need to greed or bait windows, and with WoO or map knowledge can easily reach the next pallet long before a killer can catch you. This is before talking about its secondary effect
3% for survivor is worth more than 10% for killer, because survivors can fast vault and drop pallets to make the killer lag behind (and the exception, nurse, gains no benefit from haste in the first place)
You're making fair points, it does have significant trade offs, but my point is prolonged haste is always going to feel cheap and unfair.
SWFs may be able to play around it in fairness once they figure out its in play... and the game is balanced around that, but as your Joe Schmoe survivor, having your teammate kill you cause they completed a gen and suddenly your killer loses their red light and TR, and just flies at you at speed you can't possibly loop or mind game, it's not going to be pleasant.
I'd rather avoid making this thread about Machine Learning specifically, the crux of my point is you should never grant prolonged haste.
There is Play With Your Food of course, but that requires so much goofing around to build up, and the fact it's lost on each hit means the overall benefits vs. time spent is pretty moot.
Machine Learning gives you the power to slug like crazy for that 30s, and the fact you're undetectable means survivors can't really try and read you around shack, loops, and jungle Jim's, etc.
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@Riski said:
Machine learning has the issue of being a contradiction. To activate it you need to kick a gen, then you need to kick another gen and then you need the last gen you kicked to be completed. In other words you want to go around kicking gens but without actually defending them and the perks that benefit you going around and kicking gens are gen defense perks, leaving it with awkward perk synergy. I agree that once activated it's very powerful and could be toned down a bit however to justify that you should change the activation condition, if it worked like you said it does where you just have to kick one gen then yes I'd agree it would need to be toned down (5% haste maybe or a buff similar to overclock's action speed bonus instead).
Made for this is ultimately a win more perk. Against a killer who is beating you in chase such as a nurse, executioner or nemesis it does very little, against an instadown killer it does very little unless you never want to heal which is a large risk even with haste and against a stealth killer who wishes to down you without chasing it does very little. In any situation where you are injured for less than 50 seconds it's worse than a sprintburst/lithe triggering, it also has the endurence however that is a relatively minor effect in the scope of things and the 3% will mostly matter in chase with little impact on map traversal. The perk helps make compliations against killers who aren't as good and does little against the killers you actually need help with, if you wish to predrop every pallet you don't need this perk to do that or make the chase not worth taking for the killer. The biggest issue with the perk as a whole is that it can be stacked with other exhastion perks like dead hard or balanced landing which are harder to trigger but very powerful when they do as then you can get the benefit of made for this and then get the benefit of another powerful exhaustion perk.
I see what you're saying, but that isn't much of a hindrance. You have quite a few options to help you out in forcing this gen to be completed while applying slowdown elsewhere.
Jolt, Dead Man's Switch, Ruin, these allow you to maintain pressure on other gens, while discouraging survivors from letting go of the gen you want. Is it a catch all improvement for every killer? No, but there are certain killers that really benefit from it, and going forward this massive effect will need to be held in mind for all killers.
Once you have your boost, you're almost guaranteed to down 1 player, and you're not within a bad shout of catching 2, and there is not really anything those survivors can do.
My point is Haste is an extremely potent effect, and unlike other effects, it doesn't take much thought to use effectively.
Prolonged Haste makes bad players far harder to deal with for either side without any skill required... I should know I'm one of them. Haste should be confined to short bursts that give you a chase to make it round a loop at the right time, then go on a cooldown.
Machine Learning may not be as troublesome as Made For This... but it is still troublesome.
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@fussy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/379465/made-for-this-is-objectively-unbalanced
POV: players understand game's mechanics better then devs
I don't think you give the devs enough credit.
I reckon they knew it would likely be overturned, but they would rather err on the side of making it too strong than too weak. After all, why would you buy the character if the perks were trash?
I don't believe it's malicious, they arent omnipotent to know exactly how strong it needs to be... but you definitely don't want to release something underpowered... so it just makes sense to release it strong and dial it back.
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I tend to be a somewhat laid back killer. I try to win, but if I get my 3k comfortably having smoked the team, and 1 player clearly messed it up for everyone else, I'll usually go easy. If I get a strong lead, and everyone still tried to win and didn't give up, I'll usually let the last one get hatch, or even repair the last gen and get out the door.
However I saw that this one survivor was using this perk, and I had no mercy for him. It was such a pain in the ass to chase him throughout the whole game, I didn't bother and went for everyone else instead. At the end, I saw him and shut the hatch, and hunted his ass down, no matter how long it took.
The whole time going after him had no mind games, no clever fakes or loops, just run in a straight line and hopping windows, beelining for obstacles and breaking off to the next area.
You can say this perk is not Overpowered, maybe it is or isn't, not had enough experience to say, but it's a constant passive, and pretty brain dead. I won't use it as a survivor cause it's boring, and I'll show no mercy yo anyone I see running it, cause it isn't fun. It's dumb.
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Pig is the killer I've picked to main, and I've watched numerous guides and gameplay videos from high level Pig mains about her.
The general consesus is her traps are perfectly fine as is. The 3 jigsaw box average makes her reverse bear traps reasonably consistent in their effect on game slow down. The only thing she actually needs is improvements in chase and map traversal.
- Faster crouched movement speed (the recent addon buff for it is very nice)
- Faster crouch and stand up speeds
- Possibly a means of breaking pallets when using her ambush
These are the more common things cited to improve upon her...
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The problem with nerfing Adrenaline in any way is you only get it once... so it has to do a lot for you to be worth it.
The introduction of exhaustion remaining active on the sprint effect as a result of the HUD giving out info is not a bad idea tbh, but as other have said, it makes the perk too weak to use as a 1 time thing, as the reason you want it is to save your ass if you're in the final chase, which will most likely mean you're already exhausted.
If it must get nerfed because its too popular, I personally would suggest something like it simply removing exhaustion immediately. 1 of SB, Lithe, BL, all become a requirement to get the mileage, but at least that is then allowing Survivors to get the effect at the cost of 2 perk slots instead of 1... and you're probably taking 1 of these anyway so no foul.
The nicely of this is it means only the survivor in chase really gets the benefit without thinking about it. Other survivors would need to preemptively spend their exhaustion perk to run towards the gate to then get it back, and at least one player must be on a gen, so as killer you won't suddenly have all 4 sprint across the map...
This brings on the intelligent use of the hud you want, without shafting the main reason the survivor wants it... and these Endurance perks don't last as long as current Adrenaline, so isn't QUITE as punishing.
But that's my 2 cents.
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Just wanna ask, how do we know what each character's sexuality is? David has it in his lore, but the rest of the cast for the most part don't have anything to say one way or another, and I would argue they don't need to, as a person is not defined entirely by their sexuality.
I've always felt like making a big song and dance about such things is patronising and pandering. The true vision of acceptance is not to make a big deal about it.
David being gay is tasteful. It's a natural low key part of his character, not stamped with huge bells and whistles saying "by the way he's gay! Here's your gay character! We put one in!". He is a character in his own right first, the fact he is gay is inconsequential, which is when you're genuinely winning the inclusion battlefront.
If one starts adding characters obviously oriented one way or another just to tick a diversity box, then it's not inclusion anymore, it's pandering. A character must be a character in their own right, they should not be there just to meet the quota.
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As a new player learning the game, I have been thinking for a while now that the add-ons on both sides are too strong in general... when you read some of these effects of these things, they seem outright bonkers... and when you look back at the history of insta blind combos, and other major game add on issues through the years... yikes xD
Comparing to other games I play with similar systems, what add-ons should do to my mind is offer small number tweaks to encourage slightly different play-styles... I actually pretty much exclusively use brown add-ons on all my killers cause they give slight tweaks, rather than the huge game transforming effects of the other tiers, and the killer largely feels the same as base kit...
However I don't have anywhere near enough experience with the game to start suggesting something so radical like completely transforming the add ons system to remove their massive game altering effects. Any changes I would ponder asks the questions, how to make rarity mean something, and what the hell to do with the Blood Web? So more trouble than it's worth... but the strength of these things is a little weird to me.
P.s. Newb question as an aside... do brown torches, maps and keys exist for survivors? I assume not, but were they ever a thing? I was under the assumption survivors had like basic gear for various team roles, effectively serving as the survivors equivalent of a killer "power", and the rarity improved those abilities... but these other things just seem rare, to the point I'm almost afraid to run them, cause I don't fully understand how they work, there is no common version to get an idea...
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3453270#Comment_3453270
It's not difficult by what game allows.
Fact that players are talking with each other is not allowed by game itself.
You can't detect if they are talking or not.
You never ever want to create mechanic that would players feel punished for playing with friends.
This game is not noob friendly, there is very little players who would install it and play soloQ. Most survivors get to this game to play with their friends, DBD needs that. It's stupid to punish it.
This is like saying I want more BP for playing Pig (any weak killer). I am playing harder version of DBD, but it's my choice. Same for soloQ
Seems I may be a closet masochist... xD
Though I do get is how it may be perceived... and it is fair point this game is brutally hard woth a high entry barrier....
I responded to fulltonon with a similar point(awaiting approval), I personally wouldn't have thought a bonus to solo players would be perceived as a punishment to SWFs... but then again maybe that's an overly optimistic view to take 🤔
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@fulltonon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3453245#Comment_3453245
Don't ask me, "we won't give any advantage to solo or give any disadvantage to SWF because people shouldn't be penalized for playing with friends" was exactly what dev said in the past, I think it's stupid but that's it.
Huh... thats disappointing ..
Should have probably guessed this has been discussed before, thanks for pointing out this decision has already been made 😔
I still do not agree with the stance rewarding solo queue players is a penalty for SWFs.
Its like Demon Souls half health when undead vs. Embering in Dark Souls 3. They are essentially the same concept, but in one you are having something taken off you, the other you are gaining something extra.
These are 2 very different things, and I'm sure any self aware SWF would not honestly feel upset if their solo counterparts were granted extra bonuses... but maybe that's me giving too much credit 😅
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@AssortedSorting said:
SWF is harder to play, given the additional layer of complexity of communication, coordination, and increased cooperation threshold. But it is much easier to get the results you want.
SoloQ is easier to play, given the reduced information and tools at your disposal, as well as your own detachment from other players. But it is much harder to get the results you want.
I think the only meta-game progression bonus SoloQ needs is the one it already has: flexibility in its inclusion into your timetable/social circle.
Gameplay-wise that’s another story., and feeds into your complaints about Bloodpoint gain (likely a result of altruism points and general match longevity).
The above is being worked on, it seems. However in the meantime I don’t see the need to promote isolationism over cooperation in terms of general meta-game progression.
In fact, I think providing incentives to encourage social interaction in games is a healthy thing for the community, from the perspective of a business and a player.
Still against integrated voice comms though. Needing to put in a bit more effort in order to socialize filters out low-bar trolls unshackled by anonymity (be it direct or by volume) and helps reinforce the idea that socializing does take some effort, the only downside being that cross-platform communications have an additional hardware gap given audio sources being split across devices. (Though Sony did acquire Discord)
So I guess I’m against general matchmaking voice comms. Not a comms link formed via party formation prior queue.
Interesting take, thanks for reading all the way through and providing something tangible! 🤔
The solo queue game being isolationist and having less complexity is an interesting stance. I would argue that because you have less tools and information, your game requires much more critical decision making and experience to win, or at least stand a decent chance of winning. I tend to find the big problem in solo is survivors being too altruistic instead of hiding or working on far of safe gens when injured/dead on hook... Even just getting them to heal is a problem. For example if you have Kindred, and see the dead on hook, injured Nea trying to go for the unhook save, do you stay doing your 70% complete gen even though you're on 0 downs? Or do you go?
As a solo, information perks are king, because you don't have that luxury of comms. Even with you information perks, your allies may not have them, so trying to make a "best" call in a crap situation is a tall order.
Incentivising social interaction is definitely a worthwhile goal, and good for the community, however playing solo shouldn't be discouraging because you get those situations that are just out of your hands. I really enjoy this tense uncertainty in solo queue, so I'm not complaining, but I try to learn playing both sides, and it surprises me how there is certain behaviour/strategies I see SWFs do, that I simply couldn't do as Solo without an absolutely inhuman read... its not impossible for a solo to do them, but it certainly isn't easy, and if you're wrong with your guess, then you're giving the Killer precious time.
I'm not knocking the skill of SWFs at all, or complaining about them really, but there have not been an insignificant number of times where the natural chaos and uncertainty of solo survivor games have led me to say to myself "wow... this guy made a horrific mistake... it'd be rude/patronising not to take advantage of it".
In these moments, as a Killer I'm left thinking that "this guy made a mistake, a mistake he wouldn't have made if he had comms to help, and now the whole team is in a lot of trouble...". I feel like people playing in that world deserve incentives and bonuses for embracing that more difficult challenge. 😁
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3453237#Comment_3453237
One side has more = other side has less.
Not difficult concept.
This work for killer vs survivor BP bonus, because that's for role needed and it changes.
That wouldn't work soloQ vs SWF. That's still same, never changing bonus.
I'm not trying to antagonise here... so with all due respect...
It's not a difficult concept to understand that a bonus for the players playing the more difficult game... especially when the game is balanced for SWFs... is not a punishment.
This has the same energy as a child who has been given 3 bars of chocolate by his gran at lunch, only to complain the kid next to him has a *slightly* larger piece of birthday cake.
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----Delete---
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@fulltonon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3453237#Comment_3453237
It...is.
The benefit you can only get with solo, is equivalent of disadvantage for playing with friends.
Give an advantage to solo or give an disadvantage to SWF, end result is same, playing with friends will be penalized.
OK I'll try to explain this another way.
In a SWF you have numerous advantages. It is easier to coordinate gens, it is easier to coordinate saves, it is easier to scout the map and loop the killer, it is easier to track the killer, and it is easier to escape the trial and win the game. You even get the luxury or coordinating your builds for specific team roles with your SWF.
Would you therefore conclude that playing as a solo survivor without all these benefits is therefore penalising the solo queue player? Both currently get the same rewards, have the same requirements to get those rewards, but one is undeniably harder... no one would disagree with that I hope. I would not call it being penalised, but it's certainly a disadvantage.
SWF is what the game is balanced for by the devs own admission. Therefore if you're a solo survivor, you are actively handicapping yourself, as you are playing the game in a manner that is not balanced for you.
If you give solo survivors more points/resources, you're still giving SWFs the rewards the game is balanced for... you're not making it unfair on SWFs, you're giving players playing the harder game mode more resources.
You can look at it as a "oh no I'm not getting as much in SWF! That is unfair!" if you want... but I would say playing the harder game mode should be rewarded, and getting the standard rewards at the level the game is actively being balanced around in a SWF, is perfectly fair. Asking for more as an SWF when you already have all these advantages to help you score, is being greedy.
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@fulltonon said:
That's more or less equivalent of punishing people for playing with friends, I doubt it gonna happen.
A bonus for playing solo... is a punishment for playing with friends...
Do you want another take on that my guy?
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Considering there are survivors out there that teabag on pallet stun, flash click at windows, and are constantly taunting the killer on gate only to step through and not even let them get a final hit for points... as a killer you have to have thick skin and let these things wash over you.
However, as you go up against better survivors, you have to get more tryhard and ruthless just to even get 2 kills. I always try not to tunnel and camp, but that makes it a lot more difficult and stressful. A lot of the time my wins comes when one of the players I've already got dead on hook is trying to be too objective and altruism focused and gets caught.
If on the other hand I've dominated the survivors, it just feels nice not to have to be ruthless and try hard all the time. I tend to give hatch to the last player when I've had fun... killers are people too dude, most of us are here to have fun, not ruin people's day... giving hatch is a way to be nice to survivors.
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As a new player killer main who sees a lot of Windows of Opportunity at low level, and runs it myself on survivor, I see no problem with this perk.
I think youre not giving credit where it is due to the survivors you're facing. A bad survivor is a bad survivor. WoO on low level players usually means they're looking for windows and pallets, instead of looking at me the killer.
Having low level survivors path reasonably well means I have to learn to mind game, and baiting out Window hops/Pallet drops is an important skill that I get some satisfying success with, and also keep needing to improve. It's much more fun this way than having someone run blindly into a dead zone and I just slowly walk them to death....
It also means if I go against a SWF the difference of play level isn't so brutally different in loop strength... and tbh if all your solos are running Sprint Burst, WoO, Adrenaline, then that leaves 1 perk where they will have to choose between Off the Record, Borrowed Time, Kindred, Reassurance, Prove Thyself, or whatever else you want from a survivor build...
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@Frogsplosion said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3449208#Comment_3449208
Yet another reason killers have 3 perk slots and Lightborn
Truth! XD
I plan to set up Agitation, Mad Grit, and Lightborn with a closer hooks offering on a preset on every killer so I can hover it for when the survivors all suddenly switch to flashlights xD
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As someone who has raged at games since I was 5, and now has 30 years of rage experience, the best thing you can do is always be kind and polite. When someone is trying to get under your skin, smiling and laughing about it and complimenting them is the best up yours you can give, cause it makes them look like an even bigger hole of A. You can stick 2 fingers up on your side of the screen, but don't let them see you sweat.
If you cant do that, just ignore/mute. If at any point you are getting overly annoyed/tilted to the point you want to have a fight or argument, stop playing. Take a 15 minute break and calm down. The queue isn't going anywhere, go have a tea, coffee, beer, wine, spirit, hot chocolate, water, or whatever drink you like to relax, eat if you havent for long time, chill out then come back.
You'll play far better, these kind of douchebags won't get under your skin, and you'll have more fun overall. Yes it sounds all lovey dovey, positive reinforment crap... but looking after your own mental game is the absolute most important thing if you wanna play well.
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Higher FOV means easier to hit flashlight saves? Seems fair to me 🙃
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So I am a newb... but I dont understand the thought behind basekit Unbreakable at all... To state the obvious, the whole point of survivor is to work as a team to beat the killer... the killer meanwhile has to pressure survivors into coming away from gens. I don't think anyone wants to move away from this idea, where survivors all basically just play their own game and aren't forced to mix up their roles in the team throughout the game.
To describe an ideal... survivors can team up on chase to make the chase harder for the killer at the cost of having less hands for gens, using flashlight saves, protection hits, saves on pallets, hook sabotaging, body blocking, etc, etc, and by doing so you're making the killer more likely to slug instead of them just going straight for the hook. This should, if done well, extend the chase considerably, and on a down can potentially buy more time as the killer must decide to hook or slug. If you've been a thorn in their side on chase for them, they will likely hook to ensure they make progress instead of getting run around even further.
If they hook, you being nearby can buy wiggle time, force unoptimal hook walks, etc, so you're still causing problems. If they opt to slug, the downed survivor can heal themselves to near max and one of the other survivors can come in and make the save... or even if exceptionally well looped, the single survivor can make the save, the decision to slug against a good survivor costing even more than if they went for the hook. This is an example of great teamwork and awareness from survivors...
Basekit unbreakable totally defeats that tactical/teamwork decison making on both sides, because survivors just run around in duos with meta perks and force the killer to always pick up and hook. There is never a need for another survivor to assess if they should leave gens to help, because the 1 distraction survivor is always enough... it would just limit the potential best choices available to each side and make the game dumber and less thoughtful overall...
There may be other factors in the game that prevent this ideal decision making... but that doesnt mean giving up on this idea and just go "screw it, lets just dumb the game down". At least that's how I see it...
But as I say... I'm a newb.
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Nerf for SWFs, you are forced into first person... third person is available for solo survivors only... means someone has to be a Meerkat and go on lookout while the rest of you have your faces buried in gens.
I kid, I kid 😁
In seriousness survivors would likely need a look back mechanic or something, like Outlast for this to work at all 😅
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After doing some basic research, for PCs an FOV between 90 and 100 is recommended, so 87 is a little short.
For consoles, approximately 60 is recommended, and this due to the difference of distance from the screens.
One thing I will say for the feather in the cap of allowing modification of fov, the fact certain perks increase your field of view is a little weird...
I am actually the other way, I don't want my fov increased cause the lense like effect causes my brain to do more work and makes me uncomfortable... so that means monitor and abuse is a no go perk, even if I want the other effect.
I personally don't see the problem allowing modifiable fov to the industry standard limits (fov 170 and alike is just for advantange, not motion sickness). For balance concerns I'd say just prevent auras from being read outside the normal fov.
Might be a slight advantage seeing people hide round corners, but that's still requires being mindful of those locations anyway and anyone paying enough attention isn't really at THAT big a disadvantage. Furthermore having flashlights hit you at wider angles would be a thing, it means a less optimally placed survivor can still get you, so that's a reasonable trade off.
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@TheWheelOfCheese said:
Maybe the tea bagging survivor at exit is actually trying to say "gg killer, hit me for some free points at the gate!"
LOL. 9 times out of 10 they run out of the gate before I can land a hit, so no, that's definitely not it.
Let me have my comfort blanket man xD
Seriously though, the point is, do what you need to to maintain your own mental, preferably without being an arse yourself.
At said teabagger, wave at them by rotating in place. This means their tbag hasn't bothered you, and they may even let you have a hit.
Tilt is the worst thing you can go into the next game with...
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One thing it might be worth bearing in mind, there are not an insignificant number of console players now... I play on PS5 myself, and there doesn't seem to be any kind of chat mechanic after the game for console... unless I've been overlooking it this whole time... so I can never explain any of my actions or intents to anyone...
In game, there are times I want someones attention, survivor or killer, and its kind of hilarious at times trying to work out how to convey a "yo!" At someone XD
As survivor, crouch spamming is not necessarily teabagging, it's one of the few animations you can spam quickly to draw attention. I find myself trying to get peoples attention quite a lot with it, and crouching quickly is the closest thing to a quick cancellable spam animation I have... but I have to be very careful when I do it cause its associated with tea-bagging.
As either I tend to spin in place to say hi, and then try to get people to follow so I can convey whatever I'm trying to convey...
My point is, there are instances of undeniable BM, but instead of getting upset, try assuming it's something more benign or innocent instead of players being hostile.
- Maybe them hitting you on hook was a controller blunder (I've done this at times)
- Maybe the tea bagging survivor at exit is actually trying to say "gg killer, hit me for some free points at the gate!"
Even if someone is being BM, if you assume it isn't, then that prevents YOU from tilting, and you'll enjoy the game much more.
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One of the issues I'm starting to find as a new player breaking into silver level survivor and killer... is this game is actually pretty damned hard... it takes a LOT of skill and more importantly knowledge...
One minor mistake as either role can snowball into BIG problems really fast if the other side doesn't make any mistakes... this is usually dealt with by bringing powerful perks and using cheaper tactics to lower your roles respective difficulty... and that's the ssme for both sides, the game is hard and punishes any form of mistake really hard... so you're always trying to lower the difficulty for yourself... and unfortunately that usually means if enemies have the right set up... then you're in for a hard time 😅
Solo Q players tend to make more mistakes, myself included... such as all rushing the hook no matter what. As survivor I've almost started ignoring hooks completely and leaving my teammates to do it, because at my level very few people sit doing gens when they really should... if you're dead on hook, wounded and I'm full health with no downs, you shouldn't be going anywhere near that hook...
I think the problem with dealing with camping is, high level survivors punish it hard... low level survivors flock like lambs to the slaughter 😅
My point is, it'll be interesting to see how the meta shifts. The anti camp/tunnel changes are needed so high level play isn't stale, and to remove how crushing it is at low level without the perks you need to even try and deal with it... but then mechanics can be explored to give high level killers more opportunity to prevent gen rushing and getting spun around for days SWFs, snd low level killers some way of staying relevant now they can't camp effectively.
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Hmmm... one option for a 2 man remaining squad with a gen left, is if you're the lowest ranked survivor in the team points (which if you're actually doing stuff, you should outrank the person who died first) you start accumulating the idle crows.
If neither are lowest, there is a hidden counter in the background that starts at your current score and counts down, if this hidden counter gets lower than the current lowest scorer, you also start accumulating idle crows. If you work on an objective for a minimum time, say 5 seconds, are in chase or the killers TR, this counter is halted.
This means anyone who is hanging out of the game waiting for others to die starts to draw attention from the killer, giving the survivor who is has been trying to win more a benefit for being more if a team player, and more opportunities to get out alive and save their inventory.
Maybe not a big deal for high level players, but for low level players (more likely to encounter this issue, and who have lower amounts of gear).
Don't get rid of hatch. It's fun as a killer to still have the chase afoot. Having a dead game with 1 survivor left and 2 gens not popped is no fun for anyone.
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Obviously not helpful to you, but you can actually do this on PS5 inherently... and the game runs at a solid 60 fps. Ofc that doesn't compare to 120 fps, and the fact you don't have a mouse... so trying to do any advanced or tricky to aim skills is far more difficult if not impossible...
So if your rig can support it, you may want to look into OBS Studio or something similar.
I've never used it, but it comes up a lot when looking for recording gameplay software, and it is open source, so free.
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@mca240 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3441267#Comment_3441267
It not as simple as "the killer is weak". A couple of killers are very strong in this game either due to ability (Nurse) or addons (Blight, Spirit). However, the other 90% of the killer roster is underpowered. That is mostly due to their ability to handle the current maps and a lot of high MMR survivors grouping up in premades. If they buff killers currently, they will also buff the strongest killers. That is not something we want. To balance out the playing field they need to do a couple of things.
The first one is balancing out maps. So far they have done an horrible job at it. All maps released in the previous year were large and full of pallets and loops (extremely survivor sided as people here would say). The reworked maps (Red Forest, Azarov's) got worse for killers at well. Way more safe pallets, no dead zones and a lot more clutter (which interferes with the play style of the Hillbilly for example).
The second one is nerfing premades. Them being on comms alone is a major advantages annihilating the power of Trapper or Ghostface (calling out where traps are, or where the stealth killer is). The biggest problem is perk stacking. Going up against a team with 2 Prove Thyselves, 2 Unbreakables, 3 Adrenalines and so one just isn't something the "average" killer can keep up with, especially with said map imbalance.
That's why a lot of killer mains are frustrated because it takes you a while to get a good survivor and by that time most generators will be done already. From there it is an uphill battle, where any pressure you have build up gets nullified because everyone has Adrenaline and they get fully healed again or whatever plan they've communicated over their headsets.
Boosting survivors is done for the sake of SoloQ, which is doing better but is still not in the best spot. However, premades consistently benefit from it as well even though they are already overpowered (of course I am talking about the efficient, seriously playing premades...not the relaxed ones fooling around).
Very insightful! Thanks!
Yeah, one has to assume BHVR must be looking at Blight and Nurse... its a very consistent through line I've seen in all channels... though learning curve is high, so new players trying to learn them do pretty awful...
As a knee jerk thought, perhaps playing SWFs could be debuffed somehow? Not that one would really want to punish people for premaking tbh, and this is likely a bad idea...
But I dunno, spitballing a 5% long gen repair, and 5% longer to heal or something for those players making up the SWF? Scale with the number of participant in the SWF up to a 20% debuff? Solo players matched into the same team are not affected...
Probably would be hated, and the game would need hard nerfs elsewhere to compensate... but seems a lose lose battle trying to balance for the advantage of comms.
Would be REALLY interested if in organised competition survivor comms was banned... 😅
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Personally, as a new player who plays both sides and isn't jaded yet, it seems to me that by and large the game has had quite a lot of improvements over the past few years.
I've been watching a lot of videos covering DBD; Otzdarva, Ardetha, Kujo, Spookyloopz, Scorpionz to name a few, and I've learned a lot to already start doing well on both sides. What has been surprising though is how many videos, even recent videos are actually out of date... I have to cross check what a lot of these videos say quite a lot.
The game is quite clearly to me constantly evolving... not necessarily the right move every time from listening to these guys, but its always getting tweaked, and there does feel like there is a conscious effort to improve the game for everyone. Tbh at my level without all the crazy perks in play, it is loads of fun... though admittedly the future for me does look a little intimidating currently 😅
Regardless, I'm having a blast... and I'm intrigued as to how the anti camp changes will affect the game for me on both sides... but if killer becomes too weak, it'll get changed. The game needs both sides to function, so I'm just kinda excited to see what happens.
Hopefully the venom between survivors and killers diminishes over time, but it seems to me, by and large the game is slowly getting changes the community is asking for... so hopefully everything is resolved if ever I get to higher levels 😅
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After reading a while, I've started to wonder if perks like "prove thyself" that increase gen progression, should ramp up over the course of the game.
Perhaps even rework gens so that they start off repairing much slower to begin with, so the killer can get pressure early, and ramp up the rate of repair as more gens get done so that at the end 3 genning is less effective?
I remember having a 3 gen as the Pig, and I still had 3 survivors left. I did hold my 3 gen, I wasn't camping it hard, but I wouldn't give it up for free, but the survivors, 2 of which were dead on hook kept trying to pull me far away, and I wouldn't bite.
In the end I engineered it where I gave a window to repair, but 1 of them was going to have to sacrifice their DOH for the others to get away. I let them get a decent headway on repair for the slightly more isolated gen, and then pressured them off it. I deliberately pushed the 1 down survivor off, then went back and committed to chasing, downing and sacrificing whichever DOH survivor I caught first on the gen (which i did).
Ultimately they repaired and I managed to down and sac one more as they tried to get out of the gate.
It was I hope somewhat fun for them... but my point is, if they were slow at the start, this situation is more likely to occur, as I have time to be effective across the map... perhaps offering additional killer points for keeping as many generators unrepaired for as long as possible (incentives for not tunneling and camping).
Then being faster at the end when repairing that final gen inherently, the window would exist, and the Killer would need to commit to securing their 2nd kill and try to get a 3rd
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From what I can see, both sides can be really sweaty, and kinda have to be by design.
As killer, if you play chill with fun perks, try not to tunnel or camp and make a game of it, you're leaving yourself open to gen rushing and/or being looped/bullied for minutes at a time, and if you wait to see if survivors are getting sweaty, it's usually too late... so killers kinda have to go hard in the paint just in case...
As survivor if you play chill, without gen -rushing perks, or you go for some kinda novelty build, a sweaty killer will identify you as the weak link, and merc you before you can have any impact on the game... so survivors have be kinda try hard to ensure they are not the chosen tunnel target.
If both sides are really trying to win, then the game is pretty balanced... but there is no chill in this game, which is what seems to create the animosity for both sides...
Splitting the queues would likely be a bad idea, as from what I've read and seen from others, queues can already be rough... but perhaps a game preference choice such "casual" and "die hard" could be set on queue?
This preference could TRY to link you with players queuing with similar settings as well as skill? Maybe have a reputation system for each queue type perhaps? Then again would probably be abused anyway...
Maybe the fact you're losing with your meme build will lower you're mmr into a casual lobby anyway 😅