Tsulan
Tsulan
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- Tsulan
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@Huge_Bush said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3442198#Comment_3442198
You should know by now that on these forums and Reddit, killer=bad, survivor fun>killer fun. They’ll accuse anyone who disagrees of being a killer main and yell that it’s a killer sided forum when it really isn’t.
*note: I dunno how my post formatted this way and I’m too lazy to figure it out.
Oh absolutely. Which is a shame. I probably have the reputation of a "filthy killer main" when in reality i play more survivor than killer. But since i don´t agree on the killer bad theme, i´m obviously a killer main.
Our community is really polarized.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3442337#Comment_3442337
Maybe they remove bubba chainsaw tantrum that is especially problem for beginners and it would promote more chasing. Even experienced bubbas suffer from it.
Or change the tantrum to something more useful instead. Like yeah, you hit that wall, but now you can... i don´t know, walk faster without power for a couple seconds? Or would that be to much like Billy?
Bubba is probably dead in the water, when the patch drops. With a good part of the community cheering.
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@Nebula said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3442337#Comment_3442337
Saying Bubba’s only power is camping is quite the reach. He’s a good killer without camping and even better when adding perks such as Bamboozle.
I tried to main Bubba years ago. His kit hasn´t changed since then. Chainsaw can be prevented easier than Billys, he has no curve and his power only excells in hitting several survivors at the same time. Which is why decent players don´t stick together against him.
He´s not a good killer. His kill rate is slightly higher than the Trappers, who has the lowest kill rate. He´s a noob stomper, but that could be said about most killers.
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@NerfDHalready said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3442431#Comment_3442431
adrenaline is strong, especially after the introduction of activity hud. my point was, again, having an intention to "gen rush" doesn't equal having a gen rush build and there are way stronger perks for that than resilience.
but don't get me wrong i 100% agree on the statement that most people are hypocrites when it comes to caring about other side's fun. people would bring the strongest builds, play the most boring and annoying way and expect the other side to do the exact opposite.
I don´t need a specific build to just focus gens. Some perks are better for that than others. Maybe their intention wasn´t to rush. But its the way i would play with that build.
Btw. i noticed 2 posts ago that it wasn´t This is not happening, but Resilience. Now i´m doubting my own eye sight.
And yes, people just need to play both sides more. In order to understand why killers/survivors do something, instead of just getting mad at the other side. Because i´ve seen the most ridiculous rants from both sides, for completely valid plays. That were not unfair or scummy at all. But sadly, this community has a extremely strong bias towards one side.
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@Sometimes_Sage said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3442397#Comment_3442397
Only focusing on gens while ignoring everything else... having tunnel vision aimed at the gens, so to speak... I just can't think of a snappy term for that...
Its on the tip of my tongue...
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@NerfDHalready said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3442397#Comment_3442397
let's say i just don't mind gen rushing without the aid of very strong tools like bnps and hyperfocus/stake out.
besides, you said survivors had gen rush builds, and i'm certain adrenaline/resilience isn't that.
A 9% repair bonus and a perk that heals when all gens are completed. I´m not a fan of Adrenaline (in terms of using it myself) but its pretty strong when used correctly. Having a SWF team would make the timing easier. The amount of times a down would be nullified by Adrenaline is pretty high.
Anyway, i think we getting a bit off topic. Since they gave up early in order to complain about a killer they didn´t like. I honestly think that people should log in with their build before the matchmaking takes the decision to match accordingly. So players with red addons get matches against each other.
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@NerfDHalready said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3442335#Comment_3442335
oh you did mean adrenalines... i see 2-3 people with that on average every match so it's pretty common. i didn't think survivors being efficient and aiming to finish gens would be considered gen rushing
Only pushing gens while not caring about heals and ignoring everything else IS the definition of gen rushing.
Or how would you define a gen rush?
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Bubba doesn´t have a overwhelming high kill rate as of now (or like forever). So with his only power (defending a hook) gone... yeah, pretty much.
But then again, some people might still suicide against him, since old habits die hard. So who knows.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3442270#Comment_3442270
Still no "Genrushing"-Build at all. I mean, for Forum-Killers probably. But objectively? Nah.
3x Adrenaline, 2x This is not Happening and DS + Hope. Totally doesn´t look like 1 runner and 2 gen jockeys.
Its a build for people that don´t want to waste time with healing and prefer to push gens, since they get healed by Adrenaline anyway. At least, thats how i would play this.
But i loled at the Forum-Killer.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3442198#Comment_3442198
Ah yes, classic Gen Rush-Loadout when one Survivor brings a good Toolbox and Streetwise. Love this genrushing Thalita with her Tier 1-Perk. Evil Genrushers.
When you fail to read the next message...
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@SirCracken said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3442198#Comment_3442198
Mikaela was the only survivor with a gen-rush loadout. But they were also the other survivor who didn't like playing against Knight. And something tells me that if the Ada hadn't given up at the start of the game, Mikaela would have should I start to win.
I'm fine if people run load-outs designed to rush gens since Knight is really good at punishing survivors who group up. But I can see the hypocrisy you're pointing out. I don't think many killer players would enjoy it if they kept finding people with green toolboxes with BNPs.
Ada and Nancy had a identical build. So possibly a 2 or 3 man swf. With Thaliita being the only player who didn´t knew what was going on.
Biggest issue the community has is, that people can´t put themselves into the position of the other side. They find something fine, as long as it benefits them and find the same thing unfair, when it benefits the other side. Instead of just enjoying the variety and chance to play different, they just stick to the same strategy/loadout.
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No one gonna mention the loadout of the survivors, that was clearly aimed at a gen rush? But since its against a Knight, the didn´t feel like it, so they just gave up.
In other words, they were prepared for a short and unfun match for the killer, but couldn´t stand the idea of a unfun match for themselves.
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@Skill_issue said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3438723#Comment_3438723
that was another case of ruin/undying supposedly being op but as soon as boons became viable (old circle of healing) then most survivors didnt see finding totems as opressive and memorized totem spawns ^_^
Exactly!
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3438407#Comment_3438407
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3438405#Comment_3438405
Eruption, Jolt, Overcharge and Gift of Pain became the new slowdown META. And it worked better than the previous META for a number of reasons. Also the Deadlock - Pain Resonance combo was restored.
Oh yeah, Eruption was so loved by everyone...
We went from a kick and passive regression meta to a just kick meta. No one is searching totems now and (smart) survivors just paused repairing for a second when the hook animation started. So efficient
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3438405#Comment_3438405
Strange then, how this patch also caused the CoBruption meta.
CoB, Eruption, and Overcharge weren't changed after 6.1 until the recent nerfs, nearly 10 months later. Eruption was even bugfixed to be buffed again after 6.1. so are you crediting that 8 months time to nowhere to hide? An aura perk?
People were still learning the new balance to the entire game. 6.1 had several perks bubble back up after a couple of months after the 'meta shift' settled down. (I'm sure you remember dead hard coming back to life, for example)
And about that same amount of time later people realized that the gen kick perks were good. Too good. And there we got the gen kick meta.
So how exactly is regression dead in that patch when gen kick meta was around for about 8 months?
Edit: spelling
I repeat, 6.1.0 killed the existing slowdown meta.
Of course there emerged a new meta, because there will always be something meta. But the slowdown meta after 6.1.0 wasn´t really a healty one. I know, this is beating a dead horse, but to me the healthiest slowdown meta was Undying Ruin. Which is so long gone, that people probably don´t remember how little camping&tunneling the game had then compared to now.
Also, i never said that slowdown is dead. I said it was nuked.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3438358#Comment_3438358
What?
6.1.0:
- Increased Eruption's detonation regression from 6 to 10%
- Increased Eruption's incapacitation duration from 16 to 25 seconds
- Removed Jolt's cooldown
- Added Overcharge's regression speed increase from 75 to 200%
- Gift of Pain's repair speed penalty was increased from 9 to 16%
It didn't nuke it, 6.1.0 -created- the slowdown meta.
6.1.0:
KILLER PERKS
- Barbecue and Chili
- Removed Bloodpoint bonus
- Corrupt Intervention
- Added: Corrupt Intervention deactivates when any Survivor enters the dying state.
- Note: The perk still deactivates after 2 minutes if no Survivor has entered the dying state.
- Coulrophobia
- Added: Healing Skill Checks move 50% faster for Survivors under the effect of this perk.
- Hex: No One Escapes Death
- Eruption
- Increased Generator reduction when a Survivor enters the dying state to 10% (was 6%)
- Increased duration of Incapacitated status effect to 15/20/25 seconds (was 12/14/16 seconds)
- Dark Devotion
- Now triggers when a Survivor loses a health state by any means (was just basic attacks)
- Added: Once the Hex's effect is revealed to the Survivors, its Hex Totem's aura is shown to the Survivors at a range of 4 meters. This range increases steadily over the next 30 seconds to 24 meters.
- Pop Goes the Weasel
- Changed regression to be 20% of current progress (was 25% of total)
- Note: This is calculated after the new baseline regression when kicking a generator.
- Scourge Hook: Gift of Pain
- Added: After Overcharge is applied to a generator, its regression speed increases from 75% of normal to 200% of normal over the next 30 seconds.
- Overcharge
- Monstrous Shrine
- Reworked - This perk is now Scourge Hook: Monstrous Shrine
- Scourge Hooks
- grant 10/15/20% faster Entity progression if the Killer is not within 24 meters. Basement hooks count as Scourge Hooks. T
- Lethal Pursuer
- Added: Any time a Survivor's aura is shown for a period of time, its duration is increased by 2 seconds.
- Note: The new effect applies to the duration of the normal Lethal Pursuer effect, which means it effectively reveals survivors for 9/10/11 seconds at the start of the match.
- Knock Out
- Added: Recovery speed is reduced by 25% for Survivors under the effect of this perk.
- Jolt
- Removed the cooldown
- Hex: Ruin
- Added: Once any Survivor is killed by any means, the Hex: Ruin Totem reverts to a Dull Totem.
- While a generator is not being repaired by a Survivor, it will immediately and automatically regress repair progress at 50%/75%/100% of the normal regression speed.
- Increased Healing and Repairing speed penalty to 10/13/16% (was 7/8/9%)
- Tinkerer
- Added: This effect can only be triggered once on each generator.
- Thanatophobia
- Increased individual penalties for repairing, sabotaging, and Totem cleansing to 4.5/5/5.5% (was 4/4.5/5%)
- Increased maximum penalty to 18/20/22% (was 16/18/20%)
- Scourge Hook: Pain Resonance
- Removed scream effect on Survivors repairing the exploding generator, generator will spark to show regression
6.1.0 completely nuked the existing slowdown meta.
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Ironic how everyone instantly names 6.1.0 as carrot, but completely ignores that this was the ONLY carrot killers ever received. Which also came with a stick (slowdown meta was nuked).
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@I_am_Negan said:
Stop camping and tunneling for kills and you'll have fun matches.
The way you're playing is to win so you'll be playing against others that are also playing to win. But if that's how you want to play by all means go right ahead.
@I_am_Negan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3436271#Comment_3436271
Again if you're playing to win (Camping and tunneling for the 3k 4k) then you should go against others (SWF) that are playing to win.
So you think that killers can only win if they camp&tunnel?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3437023#Comment_3437023
When the solution to a hostage situation is to literally throw the game and hope the Killer decides to hook you; you have a serious design issue.
*When the solution to a hostage situation is to literally throw the game and hope the other side gives up.
I agree. But BHVR kinda maneuvered the game into this direction for a long time. Lets see how that upcoming change will affect the game in the future.
Tbh, i think that the Skull Merchant is a terrible killer, that should have never been in the game and that gen regression perks should have never been nuked. Game pace has been increasing in the last year and to me its no surprise that killers try to slow down the match by either camping/tunneling someone out or by 3 genning. Camping and tunneling is being adressed as of now. When 3 genning is also gone i don´t really know how killers are supposed to play anymore. Maybe by slugging. Which then leads inevitable to basekit Unbreakable.
I don´t really look forward to this. Doesn´t sound fun at all.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3436851#Comment_3436851
Tsulan, you and I both know that's not what I'm talking about.
Playing strategically because you, for example, got a bad map is totally fine. It's even smart. Holding a 3-gen until the server closes (or for an excessive amount of time) simply because you can is not okay nor is it good for the overall health of the game.
Yes, we both know, that the "hostage" situation is also caused by both sides, that don´t want to lose. A killer can hold the game just as much as the survivor. Its not one sided.
Maybe i´m alone in this, but if i´d face a Skull Merchant who 3 gens from the beginning, i won´t stay in the match forever and just take the loss by not running away. Its as simple at that. Just pointing fingers at the killer while forgetting about the survivors is wrong.
I remember a streamer who was "held hostage" with her SWF by a Doctor. Match took 50 minutes, they ended up completing all gens and then refused to open the gates in a sort of "pay back" for another 10 minutes. They also reported the killer, when it was just as much their fault as it was the killers. (this was before the killer could open the gate for the EGC)
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Because the 10 second increase came at the same time as a complete and hard nerf to gen slowdown perks. This nullified the basekit increase. On top of that, shortly after the 10 second increase, we got a couple of perks that increase gen repair speed.
In other words, killers have less stuff to slow the match down and it shows.
Getting 8+ hooks in a match where you hook every survivor once before going for the second hook is simply impossible unless you play against absolute noobs.
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3436449#Comment_3436449
We're not talking about scenarios here were the survivors just complete 3 gens on one side of the map and cause the problem themselves. We're talking about instances where the killer specifically picks 3 gens from teh start and plays only on those gens to draw the game out for that 1 hour timer. That's definitely not the way the game was ever intended to be played.
Then why do we have the Skull Merchant?
A killer whos only power is to 3 gen.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3436103#Comment_3436103
You can if the Killer sets it up from the beginning of the game.
It shows a clear and calculated effort to hold Survivors in a match. The Survivors are unable to do anything about this.
So killers that don´t tunnel or camp, but try to slow the match down with whats left, now have an ego issue?
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@[Deleted User] said:
So, reading the PTB notes and I see the change to Deja Vu:
- We have noticed growing concerns surrounding excessively long matches caused by 3-genning (Killer defending a cluster of three generators). We are working on a long term solution for a future update to limit how effective this strategy can be. However, we recognize that Survivors need more options at their disposal right now to combat 3-genning. With this in mind, some adjustments have been made to Déjà Vu: The perk will now reveal the auras of 3 generators which are in close proximity to one another indefinitely (previously for 30/45/60 seconds at the start of the trial and everytime a generator was completed) and grant a 4%/5%/6% repair speed bonus on the revealed generators (previously 3%/4%/5%).
So 3 genning is now bad? Then why do maps like suffocation pit actually exist? Why did the developers release the knight and then the skull merchant and now another killer with seemingly strong 3 Gen potential. Is this just due to complaining from survivors? Because the developers have made decisions for months (years) which suggest they’re fine with the game being played one way, only for enough moaning to cause them to try and counteract the game design they themselves implemented.
I honestly don’t understand anymore how the developers want killers to play the game. Is it just to “have fun”? Enjoy chases and don’t care about macro strategy or winning? Don’t use slowdown perks as they’re all mostly pretty trash?
I do agree that 3 genning can be tedious, but the solution is not removing that ability without changing other things like map design.
To me it just looks like the devs want really short matches. Without gen slowdown or 3 gens, there is only 1 thing left a killer can do to slow the game down.
Which doesn´t exactly sound fun but meh...
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3435863#Comment_3435863
When you refuse to leave them and hold the match hostage, yeah, it's an ego thing and clearly the Devs agree to some extent.
I´m afraid that in a 3 gen both sides are equally culprit of holding the game hostage. Because a survivor who tries to lure the killer away from the gens is just the same as the killer who tries to protect the gens.
You can´t point at the killer and say that he has an ego issue, when survivors have the exact same issue. Both sides want to win.
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Well looking at PTB CoH and Basekit BT, i´d say its going to be somewhere between 4 and 5.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3433903#Comment_3433903
Even with BBQ people were still camping. It was still a better path to victory (3v1) than actually hunting down other survivors.
But not as many people as they do now.
Complaints about camping spiked after the nerf.
Meh, people wanted that nerf, now they can enjoy it.
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Don´t worry, i´m confident that survivors won´t abuse such a mechanic like they did in the past with Basekit BT.
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They teased something about BBQ during the stream, but didn´t follow up on it.
I mean, pre nerf BBQ was the incentive to leave the hook back then. I still wonder why they thought it would be a good idea to remove it. But here we are.
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@MadMoeZel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3428854#Comment_3428854
we love seeing the news about the game not being posted on the forum dedicated to the game. it's our favorite!
Yeah, communication is really an issue. Especially since the DbD Twitter account is linked to the main DbD Forum page. But here it just seems like everything is done separetely. New information is scattered on different platforms for no apparent reason.
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@MadMoeZel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3428852#Comment_3428852
Tell me, what would make rank skill related?
Its a pve game. So nothing would make rank skill related.
Hell, even in a pvp game like DbD, rank has so little to do with skill, that they ultimately removed ranks.
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@MadMoeZel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3428849#Comment_3428849
why bring in ammo stockpiles when you can just leave bases with ammo traps for no penalty? *shrug*
For people that dont want to leave.
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@MadMoeZel said:
new data -
slept for 10 hours, woke up to 20 raids across 5 maps, 2 maps were completely ignored, all 20 raids went to 3 maps in normal tagged XP on the picture. dragon art build in normal ignored, brutal champion ignored.
There was a dev post on reddit saying that they are aware that there is an issue with the matchmaking. So it might be just that. Another bug.
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@MadMoeZel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3426758#Comment_3426758
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3426740#Comment_3426740
if you play 100 brutals and clear them all at 200 rank gained and your average brutal run is 3 minutes you get 20,000 rank in 5 hours barring load times. if you play 300 normals and clear them all at (i think it's 63 rank for normal??) with an average runtime of 60 seconds (which i don't think people are doing regularly i honestly think it's closer to 2.5 minutes for normal clears for most people.) you get 18900 rank over 5 hours barring load time.
brutal raider has harder content, takes longer, takes more skill, and leaves them higher rank.
dying once in normal nukes the rank to i think 13? in brutal its about 120 for one death. so even one death destroys your ability to grind rank in normals.
if you leave that normal, you have no punishment now, if you had left that normal before you'd have -30. if you consistently leave normals, you don't climb rank because you don't have the skill to complete normals. if you consistently leave every map, you don't have the skill to identify your skill level. if you consistently gain rank then you consistently choose challenges that are in your skill range, complete them without quitting and climb the rank. and the higher skilled player will complete higher difficulty outposts and get a higher rank for the same time investment.
how is there no skill in having higher rank when compared to someone of equal time?
"You can´t see that the person who died 20 times on your outpost was Bronce rank 2."
Well, HOW ABOUT WE ADD IT!!!!
just because you don't interact with others doesn't mean the rest of us are isolationists. i know many other players in the game both in and out of master bracket, we compare our runs, run the same maps, challenge one another. and we do still use rank as a way to know if the person playing the map is a good metric. so i would not say a map that was easy for Master rank 2000 is going to be easy for silver 2. why, BECAUSE MASTER ACTUALLY HAS A SKILL RELATED TO IT. is there some cracked silver 2? yes of course there is. but if i had a map easy for a silver 2, i wouldn't expect it to stop 90% of people who are gold+ because, RANK HAS A SKILL ASSOCIATED. skill is very often related to experience gained by doing things, experience gained by doing things is often increased over time, and rank largely gained by time spent in game. when being killed repeatedly, and leaving had a penalty, quitters and REALLY bad people would never reach master because they kept getting set back, there was a skill floor. thats gone now. so ANYONE can be master which means anyone under the top 1700ish right now probably came in without penalties and their skill is in question as a result of the ability to crawl forward with no punishment for cherry picking via spam leaving. but people in the top 1000 are probably experienced players who many not know everything there is, but can get through just about any problem put in front of them quickly, calmly, and efficently.
I don´t consider myself to be very skilled. I get a ton of micro freezes when i start playing. For example, the other day i died to a spike trap, when i stood in front of it, the recticle was red and i just pressed m1 for the sword.
Yet i climbed to gold 2 before the rank rework. Ranks are just grind related, not skill related.
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@MadMoeZel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3426734#Comment_3426734
then shorten the timer to 20-30 seconds so everyone is on a tighter timer. i'm all for equality in available assets
players already complain if we take ammo away in any way, why do they need ANOTHER ammo cartridge when their 3 bolts are more or less capable of destroying an entire outpost 100%? as for bait i have a hardware suggested called hologram for that in the new equipment thread please take a look and upvote it if you like it. sticky grenades could be nice depending on implementation i guess. and what do you mean more incentive to use consumables? it's in the name "CONSUME"able how much incentive do you need and why do you need to be incentivized to use a tool you have?
i really prefer not to have raiders tagging up my base thanks, they have access to tons of decal and the build menu just like me. my base is for my expression.
Well the ammo catridge would be for exactly that. Bases with ammo traps. Or rooms with 50 plasma guns aiming at the entrance. I´d like to see more variety with approaches to certain rooms. I often don´t use any consumables at all.
The tagging could be like in Elden Ring or Dark Souls. Small things that might help or not. Which you can delete or also leave a false message. But yeah, maybe not.
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@MadMoeZel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3426728#Comment_3426728
the skill is in consistently going up at a steady pace having penalties for quitting and failing meant that you can only climb if you consistently win, and leaving sets you back. that makes rank related to skill. so yeah, with no loss, rank isn't a reflection of skill. but i prefer when it is, so i'm for increasing penalties for quitting. you don't have to agree, thats fine. it may be PvE, but the total number of rank when compared to someone with equal time IS a comparison of skill in many cases. 5 hours of normals compared to 5 hours of brutals, the brutal player probably has higher rank. especially when extrapolated to 500 hours because as you run harder content your skill grows consistently, the same can not be said for spam running normals
Its just grind, not skill. Even IF it was a reflection of skill, you can´t see the other persons rank. You can´t see that the person who died 20 times on your outpost was Bronce rank 2.
What really could be motivating though, would be building up on the tournaments they held. Like sure, the tournaments were just random streamers. But it was interesting to watch. I could imagine having an actual monthly tournament. With some kind of unique reward.
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@MadMoeZel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3426131#Comment_3426131
i'm on the other end, grace period to quit in the first 60 seconds of a raid, after that penalty for quitting is HARSH because you made a choice to stay, getting genmat and getting out would completely negate that penalty and maybe come with a small reward for beating the challenge, i've floated the idea of tenacity rewards for completing things with high death counts or time spent in the raid (with a cutoff to prevent farming with it) but there are no consequences for anything in this game for raiders, because they don't every have to use a consumable, don't ever have to buy a base but builders have the consequences that they have to pay resources constantly for their bases, and that if a base gets no raids it stagnates. there is no accountability for the raider whatsoever right now.
A grace period would just pressure slow players and benefit fast players (that finish a raid in less than 60 seconds).
I´d like to have a bigger variety of consumables. Like sticky grenades, bait that triggers traps/guards, magazines that reload your ammo if you run out, etc. With more versatility, there would be more incentive to use consumables.
Hell, they could even add spray paint for raiders as a consumable, to leave a mark (like the feng ming decal) when raiding. Just as a "XXX was here" or "XXX beat this base in 60 seconds" and stuff like that.
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@MadMoeZel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3426124#Comment_3426124
you'd remove it, i wouldn't. i wanted to make the climb take longer, i wanted a grace period of 45-60 seconds for you to decide if you wanted to do an outpost or leave for free, but then after that, you made the choice to stay, i wanted the penalty for quitting after that to be double. i wanted to raise the minimum rank for master. that would have made master rank mean more because quitters wouldn't be able to climb. normals wouldn't provide enough to climb fast enough to do anything but barely climb in at the end of the season for the cosmetics.
both in the previous setup and the current setup, they still treat someone who struggled through a challenge dying multiple times identically to someone who quit without even trying or trying only one time. they get +0
someone who beat a hard challenge, and a quitter, are equal in the eyes of behavior. until they reward you in some way for completion regardless of death, the casual players won't branch into harder content. They have no inscentive to do so, they DO NOT WANT TO GET STRONGER. they want to just roll through whatever is easiest to them.
Its a pve game. The rank system, in any form, isn´t a reflection of actual skill.
Previous version was just frustrating instead of rewarding. Beating a tough challenge can be rewarding, IF the player feels motivated in trying. Motivation is the key word. In my eyes, the game isn´t exactly motivating for new players. Which explains why it has such a small retention rate.
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Ranks should be simply removed. Just let it run through this season, so everyone can get the reward they want and then remove the ranks.
Before the rewards were officially announced, people speculated that it could be this or that and i warned them, that it could be something completely useless, meaningless. Thats simply not worth the effort. People instead went on and started to alt-f4 to prevent losing rank points. Which just defeats the purpose of the game. To learn and adapt.
Ranks hurt builders and raiders. Builders, because getting a couple of 0 kill raids could really tear down the rank points, which resulted in unmotivated builders. Raiders, because they were not allowed to die anymore after reaching gold.
Removing the penalty was a good thing, now remove the rest and watch how people slowly change their behavior.
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@MadMoeZel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3425799#Comment_3425799
they took away the punishment for quitting. just go loot open tombs and quit for no penalty. there you go, building with minimal raiding required. you can make 2000-3000 synthite an hour doing that if you focus large normal maps that aren't giant boxes/mazes. going into any of your outposts then leaving it again resets the list so you can keep hunting. remember to abandon after you quit a base.
Its not the same thing. You are still required to raid. Just with less effort.
People asked for builders to beat their own maps, in order to prevent kill boxes. But this wouldn´t work, because some people are good raiders and others are good builders. Game was announced as being able to play one side without the other one. Which is only possible for the raider. Yes, you can farm mats by doing that. BUT some people simply don´t like to raid at all. They just prefer to build their bases and are amazing in doing so.
There is no shame in only wanting to play one side. Just as raiders shouldn´t be forced to build bases in order to progress, builders shouldn´t be forced to raid to progress. If someone wants to do both things, than great! But if one doesn´t, the game shouldn´t punish for that.
I´ve seen some amazing maps, where i thought i should have 3 accolades to award. Because the map was simply beautiful. I´ve also seen lazy maps that were probably build in 5 minutes by someone who doesn´t like to build at all. No one should be forced to play a role he doesn´t like.
Ranks are meaningless. They were meaningless before the patch and now even more. Its one thing i´d remove from the game without hesitation.
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@Nahasno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3425242#Comment_3425242
The economy has to favor raiders over builders because if it didn't people would raid even less. The game was never intended for build only/ raid only players. They specifically stated that it was intended that you build AND raid!!!
There are no system sanctioned bots in this game but guards. So people HAVE to raid to essentially get raids on their own outposts.
I like to build too but i accept that i have to raid to so that other builders get traffic and hopefully raid other outposts and generate traffic for my outpost too. This here is the problem, a few only builders would be sutainable but not many and who to choose. If you want a game that grants you raids on your outposts while not raiding yourself you have to have bots or many "raid only" players more in the mix as "builder only" both are not in the game! Especially if a builder can have more than one active map.
The same with the difficulty brackets and traffic - if people only run normal/dangerous but build more brutals than there will be not enough traffic to sustain all those maps which won't get enough raiders.
Yes we can all build only normal /dangerous outposts but then those brackets would have an "overflow" of outposts too and the traffic for a single outpost will go down even if the amount of raids overall in that bracket stays at the same level.
In the release stream, they said that people can play how they want. If they want to raid only, then thats possible, just as building only.
Builders got the short side of the stick.
The argument that we need far more raiders than builders also doesn´t hold up, when most raiders speed run bases. Hell, i´ve seen bases getting raided in 41 seconds. A raider can finish dozens of raids in an hour.
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3424961#Comment_3424961
haha the same thing happened to me! My friend had the game open, the patch went live. I was reading the patch notes out loud, and just before I got to the part about the increase in hardware prices he closed the game and started updating it. Had he been patient a second or two longer we could've stockpiled. I mean, I already have a pretty decent stockpile, but I'm almost maxed on Parts so it would've been a perfect time to buy more.
I have a stockpile of 100 but would have prefered to get some more, if i would have known.
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@MadMoeZel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3424977#Comment_3424977
they'll fear "legitimate mechanics" and quit too, did you not consider that? if the issue is fear causing them to leave they need to conquer that fear or they won't improve. taking away builders tools instead of improving their functionality will push builders away. we already don't like grabbing ammo through our walls or kiting our guards outside where they can't pursue raiders to get free kills. there seems to be a ton of consideration for the raider that the builder is supposed to cater to, but where are our fixes against raider exploitation? builders complaints get ignored because there are less of us. it's easy to be a raider and just hop in and out of any dungeon with no penalty. builders spend hours crafting things and get minimal raides, get bad mouthed by the raiders who abuse their dungeons and exploit their own mechanics then call the builder an exploiter cause they had a one way door, or 2nd wave acid. it's a double standard. so if all you want to see is copy and paste basic youtube builds, sure, take away out tools and encourage quitting instead of fleshing out our tools and encouraging learning.
we could have given raiders a tenacity bonus that rewarded them for finally completing something with many attempts or times spent, we could have given grace periods for leaving outposts without fully removing penalties. as some point there needs to be accountability that a player made an active decision to do something and there SHOULD BE consequences to that. but since the patch, outside of socials, i've had ONE person die more than twice in a dungeon and continue playing, because why continue playing? theres no penalty to quitting and finding something easier. why bother learning when you can just go play free XP maps (i have 4 up because of how many raids they get, i don't even bother making art builds or fun things anymore for normal, they just don't get the raids that XP maps do) yet these are the people that got catered to. i don't care of those players are driven away, i don't want to share a playerbase with them anyways. anyone who willingly hunts down XP maps in a game like this honestly makes me cringe.
so i make my XP maps the most unpleasant and unrewarding experience i can, to discourage that type of map hunting. those raids being selected takes raids away from art builds and builds that actually challenge the player to learn and completely ruin the point of the game "here, free stuff in a post-apocalyptic wasteland based around thieving genetic material to survive" and if those players are driven out, XP maps will stop getting raids and we'll see more REAL maps.
I agree. Not only did the raiders leave in fear of the second wave exploit, the builders that were just using lava cubes got no raids for one reason or another and also left.
The whole rank system was a mistake. It got partly sorted with the last patch, but never should have been a part of the game. It hammered "dying to often lets you lose ranks" into peoples minds and hitting alt-f4 whenever something isn´t rewarding became like a natural move to some people. Which is totally contrary to what the trailers always suggested.
On top, the economy is build to favor raiders over builders. Someone who spams grenades during a raid, will never spend as much in grenades as he gains in parts during the raid. Someone who tries to keep a base running without raiding will hit a wall after a short amount of time. Since no base, doesn´t matter how successful it is, will be self sufficient. Which partly led to the flood of kill boxes, since builders felt forced to get as many kills in the hope to keep a base running, which then led to the alt-f4 behavior at the release of the game.
Raiders going for free XP maps could also simply be a result of the synth starved playerbase. Which is sadly the thing that didn´t get fixed with the patch (instead, consumables were made more expensive).
At release i build some (i think) nice maps, that looked good and appealing. Spend hours on them. They lasted a little over a week. While i understand that there always needs to be a influx of new maps, having a map that cost you hours and hours just become useless feels... kinda frustrating. Maybe there should be another accolade or something for amazing maps. That would allow maps to continue their live circle beyond lvl 10, if enough people give that map a upvote. It would certainly motivate builders.
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Patch has been only out for a couple of days. Give it time. Old habits die hard.
Also, it could still be just a crash, because the games performance hasn´t really improved since release.
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@MadMoeZel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3424957#Comment_3424957
all exploits have the potential to become mechanics, the only separation is dev intention and that can be swayed. do you disagree that those statements are true?
Oh sure, but the second wave lava exploit was driving players away. Because a lot of people dodged bases when they contained lava cubes. Simply because they feared the exploit.
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@Dreamnomad said:
HARDWARE
- The cost to craft Hardware has been increased slightly by 5 Parts. The new crafting costs are as follows: Spike Drive: 15 Parts
- Blast Grenade: 15 Parts
- Flash Barrier: 25 Parts
- Phoenix Pod: 35 Parts
That's from update today. Honestly, this isn't a big deal though. Parts have always been a pretty easy resource to acquire. Equipment was trivial to use. Frankly, it still is. Message to devs, that doesn't mean you should continue to increase the costs of equipment.
50% price increasement on grenades isn´t just slightly.
Wanna know who got really unlucky? I had the game open prior to the patch. Read the patch notes with the game still open, but closed it for the patch before reaching the part with the hardware price increasement. *duh
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Never thought i would find people defending exploits for the sake of game health.
But... here we are.
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I really liked the dev stream yesterday and í´m looking forward to the next one in 2 weeks.
All in all good job.
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Capped out on Cells and Parts while still only having 4k Synth...
If this isn´t a issue, then i don´t know what is.
Anyway, good video.
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3419493#Comment_3419493
According to this, anyone who signed up for the closed beta got the HRV decal:
https://twitter.com/MeetYourMaker/status/1595123537077235712
(I wouldn't know, I didn't buy the game on Steam. I have it where I have DbD, on PS4.)
Thank you for looking this up.