TicTac
TicTac
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@FerrousFacade said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4049057#Comment_4049057
I am not placing you in any faction, I am saying you are falling for the exact same doublethink that pervades the community. The killer's skill absolutely matters in a tunnel out situation. The idea that it doesn't is absolute insanity. If the expectation is that the survivor must be better than the killer in order to win then we have a problem, one caused by the skill level required of the killer to perform a tunnel out and the skill level required of the survivor being tunneled out to not have their entire team lose on the spot. The skill level of both players matters.
That also means if a good killer tries to tunnel against survivor of the same skill level, he will struggle. It depends obviously on the killer choice.
In another thread someone would argue that the point of chase isn't to totally elude the killer, its to buy as much time as possible for your team (directly contradictory to a skilled survivor being able to avoid a tunnel out). If the players are really at the same skill level then the chase will last around 30 seconds (average chase time across all MMR for a single survivor across the whole match was 60 seconds when it was last provided to us, assume three chases and added 10 seconds because that only tracked chase mechanic). That isn't enough time for the survivors to get much done. I have also had ghouls and blights and probably every killer DC against me as well, it was quite obvious that I was much better at the game than they were. We were not at the same skill level.
The point is to waste time. Making a killer struggle doesnt mean that you will survive. It means that he has a high chance to lose the match (3 out).
And im talking about a good team of survivor. If it was a solo chase you would just need one good survivor.
You say across all mmr its 30 sec, but you dont see the problem? Like i said low mmr swings highly into the killer favor. And if you have some hours in DBD you also know the matchmaking. Why would you thinknthis data is about fair match between good players? Sadly thats maybe 5% of all matches.
Im all in for an anti-tunnel-mechanic. If the killer is forced to chase me and not the weak link, it would be great.
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@FerrousFacade said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048901#Comment_4048901
Nothing in my post is us vs them outside of what I honestly see from killers all the time. I personally am not asking for the overall balance to change at all and am much happier with the existing balance than the average person and I also primarily solo queue.
I want tunneling removed because I think it is bad for the gameplay experience and it has everything to do with killer skill. Skilled survivors lose to a tunnel out all the time from killers that are not as skilled as they are. It takes much much more effort and skill from the survivor than it does the killer. It really is free pressure with little effort, that you can beat survivors better than you with it is proof of that.
All you have to do is spend a little bit of time on youtube, here, or the killer subreddit and the doublethink shows up from even the biggest names in the game. It is my single greatest issue with the community. They watch killers win match after match and then those same people claim the game is survivor sided or that survivors need nerfing and then claim they are "just telling it like it is." Its either zero self reflection or being intentionally misleading for their audiences but those people believe them. When the survivors don't win its because they are bad. When the killer doesn't win something else is the problem often contradictory problems. The actual stats contradict this but those get ignored.
The topic has just nothing to do with killer skill.
Yet the rest of your post is about whether or not the survivor is skilled. You are happy to consider survivor skill but ignore the killer skill and agency. Its right there in your post.
Edit: I don't even actually want to see tunneling removed. I just want there to be an actual trade-off to it or something that ensures I don't lose on the spot for having a single bad teammate.
"Yet the rest of your post is about whether or not the survivor is skilled. You are happy to consider survivor skill but ignore the killer skill and agency. Its right there in your post."
And thats exactly the us vs. them-thematic. And maybe im not wording this correctly bc english is not my native language, but i will try. You assume that i belong to the killer faction, bc i do only write about survivor skill. You assume that im bashing survivor for their skill level and that i think killer are more skilled. But the reason im not writing about killer skill is that it doesnt matter for this specific topic. For example: If you are saying Blight is op, i dont answer with BNP are op. Thats not a constructive discussion.
In my opinion he tunneling problem has nothing to do with killer player skill bc killer on all skill level do it. Its more the average balance on the low level. A bad killer player will mostly win against bad survivor player. The killer doesnt need to learn how to chase, bc the survivor cant loop.
That also means if a good killer tries to tunnel against survivor of the same skill level, he will struggle. It depends obviously on the killer choice.
And obviously a bad player (boosted through tunneling) has no chance. The amount of Kaneki which dced against me, bc they had no clue what to do in chase, is quite high. But here comes the matchmaking. Those killer could have just chased another survivor in the match and would have won. They just didnt know and im playing a bit aggressive to take chase. But i cant do anything if a bad teammate gets tunneled. If they cant loop, one bodyblock doesnt help much.
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@FerrousFacade said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048813#Comment_4048813
And we immediately return to the survivors being bad while the killer has zero agency whatsoever. Predictable. If I body block at the right time and the killer hits me and then continues after the tunnel out they still get the tunnel out. Either I give another, possibly throwing the game on the spot, hope another teammate does, or go back to gens and hope the teammate lasts. No matter the choice its all free pressure for the killer as the survivors are off gens, giving free health states, or they get the tunnel out, lose lose lose.
Could you please stop with this lame us vs. them? I play more survivor than killer.
The topic has just nothing to do with killer skill. Well, if hes really bad, you dont need bodyblocks, but thats rare, bc bloodlust gives even the worst killer a hit after a while. (Resetting bloodlust with a timed bodyblock is also really good)
Its not free pressure. Everything is a time game. The question is how much does the bodyblock extend the chase. 30 sec would be 60 sec (two survivor on gens). It could be worth it, but it also could be better to sit only on gens. A bodyblock against Blight in a deadzone is probably not even worth ten. (bodyblocking his power is hard, but thats far better bc of his cooldown)
So a bodyblock needs good game knowledge and comms make it easier. (I play mostly solo que). The killer just needs to chase the unhooked survivor, ignore all macro gameplay, so his experience as player doesnt really matter. A killer player doesnt even need to learn to chase if a survivor cant loop.
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@FerrousFacade said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048518#Comment_4048518
If anything Chaos Shuffle (and 2v8) more exposes how bad most people are at the killer role. People love to bombard survivors with the idea that most are bad but refuse to do the same for killers despite it also being true. The game is designed for survivors to lose more often resulting in killers thinking they are better than they really are.
I've gone out of my way this Chaos Shuffle to play "low tier" killers because I got four Ghouls in a row playing survivor and have been doing just fine, even Trapper and this includes at least one match I let everyone go (sucker for a lute). Trapper isn't strong but he isn't doing nearly as badly as this community makes it sound like he is.https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/LLF01HJC5N3R/7b6e091c8b-5221-40d2-8b0f-436f7e6bc0ac-7d.png
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048523#Comment_4048523
And “good teammates will prevent it” isn’t a strategy. You can’t guarantee coordination, body blocks, or smart trades in solo queue, especially in a random-perk mode.
And half the time this level of altruism just ends up throwing the game for the survivors as the killer downs the blocker and continues after the tunnel out, its free pressure for the killer that often gives them a snowball win on the spot.
Yes, altruism throws the game bc people are bad at it. They often just block immediately. But thats useless for me if im at the pallet. If i cant make the next one, im just watching the wipe animation of the killer.
With that strategy they are just throwing their health states away. But theres no tutorial, so how should they know?
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@100PercentBPMain said:
I need Jaws. I want Jaws. I DONT CARE if he's restricted to 1 level only. I want Jaws.
just think, how many people play Artist? or Hag? Or Krasue? surely Jaws can't be a waste of effort to make for one map seeing as we have a plethora of killers people can't be bothered to play as it is.
If the entity says you can swim through the ground, you can swim through the ground. Would work on every map. Its kinda the mobility of Vecna 2.
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Why not use them for a different original chapter?
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What we know: the stats on the tracker are kinda useless if you abandon.
What we dont know: is there are real tracker in the background, will it ever get changed, how does it affect mmr
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4047999#Comment_4047999
The problem was the first version from the rework had very little added things and many things like faster vaulting were just things he already had before rework and only increased lunge and stun recovery in persuer mode were new plus for stalker mode the lunge that was full and evil incarnate mode had only new mori survivors dead on hook and strike plus new was 40 meters of terror radius and for persuer 24 meters tr instead of 16, slaughtering strike had very low and restricted turn rate which was worse than any other killer like even billy was easier to get hits with than with mayers strike (all survvior had to do was just running around some round object and you were cooked because you couldnt turn it around for hit which wasnt fun and super bad).
That was mayers after rework just worse tier 3 and some buffs and yeah stalker mode had full lunge but he was 105 speed not 110 so its worse for getting grabs and stalking range got reduced from 40 meters to 32.
He needed some help because that rework did somethign better but some things way worse like stealth gameplay of mayers and his tier 3.
No, i meant:
Myers right now with Tuft of Hair as basekit. This version would be not good enough for most people.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4047901#Comment_4047901
no joke i had some bots hard carry my lobbies. I had a wesker get stuck grabbing somebody so I was 1v8 for a few gens, then Wesker bot came in and destroyed everybody. It made me question my own skill
It also helps that survivor often not realize which of the two killer is the bot. You need to loop a bot differently, same like you need to chase them with wh in mind.
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"was it that hard to just gigabuff him to atleast mid to high c tier in his old state"
That would be new Myers with Tuft of hairs. No dash, but better usage of his modes, small number buffs for T3 and T3, etc.
People would complain that the rework wasnt good enough and he needs more.
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Yh let people do challenges, bp earning and everything else in a bot mode. I personally wouldnt use it (maybe for dumb old tome challenges like hit 2x two people at the same time with the red puke), but it keeps new players in the game.
Let them learn the basics at their own pace.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4047624#Comment_4047624
From devs point of view maybe (if its not game breaking or doesnt block moneay gain than sure) but the amount of god pallets that dont have counterplay (just vault them as ghoul) is ridiculous especialy with m1 killers and even with someone like bubba its just not fun at all just pallet breaking simulator.
Not only from the Devs. Sadly there are many more important issues in DBD right now. In a perfect world the game would be decent and a map with boring gameplay would be one of the worst issues.
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Its just not a high priority bc kill rates are fine on this map.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Despite optimal survivor gameplay being a flowchart for the most part, you're rarely going to get all 4 survivors to agree on the best play. Differing playstyles and goals already lead to a lot of conflict in survivor lobbies.
Adding comms isn't going to stop someone from being bad in chase, inefficient on gens, less hungry for a flashlight save, etc. And I personally don't want someone with an exaggerated vocal fry and a bizarre vampire accent/Twitch accent where they over-enunciate consonants and add -uh to the end of every sentence in my ear.
Whats worse: most people wont accept quietly that people play differently. They will tell them (nice or not so nice) what they think about it.
Four people are too much anyway for normal communication. You need someone who takes the lead otherwise its gets confusing.
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@runningguy said:
i played killer and survivor and i have seen way more toxicity from the survivor side. As to why….could be as others have mentioned its 4 v 1 so more likely to encounter toxic people on that side, could be due to people having a different understanding to what toxic behaviour actually is. For example survivors tbagging at the gate might thing its just celebrating but the killer might think they are just being toxic or killers tunneling for a kill just trying to win and survivors think they are being toxic. It says something when i start getting comments on my profile saying things like "+rep decent survivor, escapes and says gg like a normal human being instead of being toxic" lol
Its has also something to do with the time-slot to be toxic. People are mostly toxic if they have already won (exit gate for survivor, last survivor down for killer)
So if someone doesnt die last the killer has often no time to be toxic bc survivor are on gens in that time.
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@Ragna_Rock said:
Feng with the rat build.
Probably dced bc she got found first.
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But what would happen if i dont have the item in my inventory?
Normally i would say that its 100% not the case, bc it doesnt make sense. But its DBD.
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4046631#Comment_4046631
20 meters is really not that much, and it also depends on the tile setup.
I know a lot of players also disregard the more distant TR layer (16-32 meters), so in reality, you often only have around 15 meters to catch up.Most players dont prerun anyway. But most players also give up against Myers. Its more for the rare instances when you get a good team.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4046649#Comment_4046649
Learning Nurse is not that hard, c'mon now.
You can prob spend a week or two learning Nurse then with slowdowns/aura perks completely dominate the majority of casual matches.
The myth of the hard-to-learn-nurse is really never dying out. But maybe thats a good thing. Otherwise Nurse would be played a lot more.
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4046603#Comment_4046603
I'm leaning more towards vault/action speed from perks (superior anatomy, bam, fire up and brutal), and faster stalk + duration add-ons. You can't really make distance against that, or mindgame that well.
Yh they cant make distance if you are close. But they shouldnt be able to loop you even without that.
What are you doing if its an standard open map and the survivors sees you, hears your TR if you are in T3 or you just get called out and he just runs away with 20 meters headstart?
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4046603#Comment_4046603
With 2-3 stacks of PWYF even ghostface with knife sherat leg addon can be super hard to deal with in chase wehn you are marked for instadown because he is 20-25% faster than normaly (only thing that hodls this down is that ghostaface is just super limited kiler and even with this perk with max value and addon he still doesnt get all chases super fast and has still bad map mobility).
For mayers so me addon plus perks like bamboozle, brutal, fire up are moe benificial I would say but he still has bad mobility and no ability to find survivors in tier 3 (that iri adoon that gives you evil incarnate mode when you hook survivor every time it resets it but its just 40 seconds with chase build can be hard to deal with but I still dont think it will beat good blight agaisnt good survivors).
Yes, its also a strong perk on Plague and Legion (if everyone is injured) and other one-shot killer. Myers has the advantage to only play one-shot bc he doesnt have a stalk cooldown like Ghostface.
All those perks (Bamboozle etc.) on Myers are kinda wasted. Yes, they feel nice, but you dont need them to down people quick. Thats like using enduring on Blight bc you swing through many pallets.
The really good part of PWYF on Myers is that you can farm stacks while stalking. And if everyone preruns you to a strong place (+ no gens in the area) you catch up a lot quicker.
If you play full chase build Myers good survivor will just destroy you. Its not even A-tier.
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Twins, but it depends. More on the survivor builds than the killer build. If you dont have any anti-slugging and none of her bugs hinders Twins, she is really strong.
Spirit with Mother-Daughter-Ring is also up there.
But imo noone compares to Nurse and Blight. (If you have good opponents)
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
Myers with a full chase build could be pretty up there in terms of lethality.
Not as fast in traversal, but makes up for it with easy downs.What do you count as chase perks? PWYF with 2-3 stacks make him quite S-tier-lethal in an area without strong pallets. But you need to earn it while Nurse just has her power, doesnt need to waste perk slots and does not care how many good pallets and windows exist.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4046442#Comment_4046442
Larry is on different level his biopods can be set on longer dastance and super fast without any huge hinder to the killer and his chase ability buffs plus his catch up to infected survivors with mobility from his biopods that can be used acress the map compare to hags 40 meters and than she gets slowed hard nd than is 110 speed is something very different, thats like comparing old bubba from 2017 to bubba we have today who has beast marks + iri flesh.
Did you read my comment? It seems like you missed the point completely.
I was writing about how Singularity proves that trap killer can work in current dbd. And for some reason you answer me like i said that Singularity and Hag are at the same strength.
Yes, this comment isnt the most diplomatic answer from me, but im sick of people not reading correctly and assuming i have really dumb opinions.
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@XDgamer018 said:
i think its high time to rework hag. Id rework her into a more cannibalistic playstyle where she gains bonuses the more she injures survivors (like the entity saying hey good job hurting them heres a bonus) bc trapping/area denial killers just dont work in modern dbd
They do work. Look at Singularity. But they need to have stats which adapt to the modern dbd (compare his trap setting speed to others, teleport range, base movement speed, etc.).
The question is what would happen then. Higher pickrate, more survivor complaining about the trapping killer, devs need to do more changes.
So yh maybe they dont work bc most dont want to play against them.
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@SoGo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4045560#Comment_4045560
I would get removing meme addons.
But for example Trapper still can get Padded Jaws, and Nurse can still get Dull Bracelet.
But meanwhile, Houndmaster is not allowed to use Trainer's Book, and Pyramid Head can't use most of his higher tier addons.
Yh im not sure if i saw the correct list of banned addons, but i dont understand the reasoning right now.
Every addon which works in 1vs4 should be fine for Chaos Shuffle. The only reason would be too strong/weak. Still weird bc all perks (even the weakest) are ok. But thats not the case.
Banning only meme-addons (which are meant to be weak) would make sense. But thats also not the case.
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We can do something about it. I got tunneled twice. First time against a Krasue. I looped "well" and we reached 2 gens, when i died. And i was pissed. No survivor helped me. They all ran away and didnt bodyblock. Non-infected against a Krasue...
Second time it was a Wesker. I played badly and he got a quick down on me after my teammate looped him very well. Then he got a second down on me, but one mate helped already. Still 3 gens to go. On my last chase suddenly the entire team helped me. Every time i run through a door a teammate blocked the killer and i could make distance. After a while i was so far ahead, i just slow walked into a corner and he never found me again. But he had already wasted too much time and it was the last gen anyway.
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I did not play her bc she was too strong. Now shes ok. But why should i choose her. She dominates bad survivors, but if you play against bodyblocks it hurts a lot. So you will win, win, win and then lose badly.
So i prefer a killer which has fun gameplay (interesting power to learn or with a unique gameplan). And someone who wants to win no matter what takes an S-tier-killer.
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@indieeden7 said:
That's kind of the entire point of Chaos Shuffle, it's supposed to be Chaotic, survivors have been able to get No Mither with perks like Self Care or Dramaturgy ever since its first iteration.
Thats not the point. I dont care if i get a bad loadout. But then they should allow every addon. Why do they remove certain addons?
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4044920#Comment_4044920
For Hag, that is where builds like "Chag" comes in. It might not feel the best, trading the ability to teleport for moving at 117.5%, but you'd do a lot better in chases with the extra speed and the path blockers.
At least that is how I was able to adept her fairly easily, without resorting to cheese strats.
The addon doesnt change the fact thar she is a setup killer. Trapper is 115%, that doesnt mean that you should chase normally. At this point you can just play a different killer. Artists crow also "block" the path and can be faster placed (+ the other obvious advantages)
A better way to make hag more viable in chase is PWYF. You have your setup, but you can still get a few downs chasing normally (similar to Trapper).
In the end it doesnt really matter. Against most teams you are completely fine anyway. Against the few people which know the counter you get destroyed anyways. And they are good enough to loop "Chag" into oblivion.
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@ArkInk said:
There's so much variance between the viability of the current killer cast that a broad general change like base regression affecting every killer is a mistake imo
Doctor, Ghostface, Bubba, Pig, and a bunch of low tiers might benefit well from a base regression changes without breaking the game.
The obligatory mention of Blight, Ghoul, Nurse? Could be far nastier. Even strong but balanced killers like Spirit or Dracula could become a bit much depending on how big the change is.
To summarize, I think the solution currently is case by case killer changes rather than buffing general mechanics.
Case by case would be the perfect solution, but we have over 40 killer now. That will take forever.
But some outliers should be prioritized. You cant give basekit gen regression if a Nurse gets full aura-build and gen regression.
On the other hand you could implement basekit gen regression with anti-tunnel-changes, maybe it balances itself out.
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@Junylar said:
They should make the regression accelerate the longer the gen regresses, so that it would be worthwhile to protect a gen.
Overcharge kinda works like that but its not really a good idea. Its like the old CoB/Overcharge-Meta. The killer stalls the game without making progress (hooks). With the anti-3-gen mechanic its not forever, but it is still a boring playstyle. And in the end survivor will still win, just 10 minutes later.
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@Nazzzak said:
Chaos Shuffle. I also enjoyed the anniversary event but that was back when they were generous with the event offerings
Did you enjoy it only bc of the event offering (i played them a lot to collect the offerings) or did you also enjoy the gameplay changes?
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@Temak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4044014#Comment_4044014
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4043993#Comment_4043993
I mean whether game is "horror" or not, it's survival game, not a clownery one, that is the issue and point of my post and also position through which I see this game. What is your position, huh?
Yes, the goal is to survive, but thats the goal in many games. Doesnt stop people to do dumb stuff in it. For exampe is teabagging in every game not an advantage, but people do it. People do unneccesary trickshots in shooter. And so on. Why?
Bc people play to have fun. (What the fun is, is different for everyone)
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@[Deleted User] said:
i mean it sounds like an issue of seeing the game as a horror game. I suggest playing alien isolation or amnesia bunker instead for a real horror experience
Thats true. DBD is not really a full-fledged horrorgame. But i wonder if any horror games keeps the horror experience if you play it for over 1000 hours. At some point you have seen everything and you understand how the game works.
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Yeah, but he has an activation mechanic. So he should have a stronger ability.
Doesnt mean that current Vecna is balanced, i dont have enough experience with him to argue about that.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4042098#Comment_4042098
- its astounding how many players go down in 10 sec of chase. i dont know if thats skill issues or if people just give up instantly. But these are the people i wish would play stealth so they dont get downed so fast, so they can do gens instead of me. Sadly this is not the case. People will want chases and will go down while refusing to touch gens, not much i can do about it other than look out for myself and not let these people drag me down with them.
- going for full hatch build is like a beacon saying "im a rat in the corner not touching gens, not getting chased, im going for hatch". it draws attention because its easily seen and then you get the killer and the other 3 survivors turn on you. Not only that but its technically against the rules to hide for a prolonged amount of time while avoiding the gens. So i dont do that, i do gens, i go in with toolbox every time to crank out the first gen asap hoping someone doesnt go down triggering the pain res. i go in with windows, sprint burst, vigil and deja vu so im prepared for chases and gens if the situation arises that i get chased or i can finish the last gen and walk out the gates while my team go down to noed.
- i do count it because hatch rewards BP and counts as escape even for challenges. if it didnt count for anything why bother having it? might as well just throw myself to the killer or maybe turn the hatch into a huge blender so people can suicide by jumping in if doesnt count for anything. Another reason i count it is due to certain situations that calls for hatch, such as 3 people exit the gate instantly for a change instead of tbagging the killer…me being chased, injured no way i can make it to the gate…hatch spawns, i escape. we all did gens, the gate was open, we all escaped. Or when i have an active trap on my head v pig and pig is guarding the 1 box i need to remove it…gens are done, gates are open but cant leave via the gates with an active trap on….you can leave via hatch with active trap on.
- Most of them dont even want to be chased. Yes, there are some cocky player who think they are their favourite streamer, but most of the 10-seconds-downs result of bad stealth. It would be good if they would learn atleast decent stealth first. Most people sadly dont know killer powers, perks or even the rough killer spawn logic, so they make silly mistakes.
- You can use rat builds as a safety net. Only one clairvoyance makes the hatch game a lot easier.
- Understandable. Its pure subjective. For challenges its the same, for mmr a tie and for some players its a lose. For me personally its just not fun enough most of the time. But thats a really complicated personal reasoning. In short: bc slugging for hatch is easy, hooking the third survivor feels like gifting the hatch for Nr. 4.
But all that said, it all changes. I was the guy who would risk almost certain death if i could get a cool safe in endgame. Yes, failure sucked, but pulling it off felt better than escaping ten times. (And yes, people abandon me often, let me hang and it feels awful) That changed quite a bit bc i think now dying more often results in worser teammates. Maybe just a placebo. But now i think twice about going for risky plays.
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Well, prestige doesnt really mean my most played killers. (Stats from the DBD tracker)
Most played (but i play since 2018, so long before those stats):
Wraith, Myers, Artist
Highest prestige:
Artist (100), Unknown (100), Myers (64)
My 2025 stats would be different, but i have no data. Last 30 days are not helpful, bc i only played three rounds withy Myers to finish the winter event.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4041914#Comment_4041914
the whole team doesnt need to use stealth for it to be effective, if there are 3 strong loopers and 1 weak looper it makes sense for the 1 weak looper the play stealth instead of being tunneled out fast. the strong loopers can do the looping. And like i have said before, soloq is exactly that, solo. if playing stealth doing gens means i survive longer than everyone else which allows me to get a hatch or even walk out the gate when the hatch is closed…its effective. It might sound harsh but as a solo player i dont know who is a good looper and who is not, i dont even know if im good enough to loop that particular killer or not, i might be, i might not be. My number one priority is gens and out live the rest. its helped me escape many times. some play differently and it works for them, thats great but i play my own way, escape doing it and actually enjoy my matches which is something many survivors seem to not be able to say.
Yeah, you should be stealthy if you are the weak link. But with the current state of matchmaking you need to be quite bad to be the weak link. It makes sense to not run into the killer, but you shouldnt outstealth weaker players.
You seem to have played some hours. So you know a lot about the game. If you really care so much about escaping (and count hatch + exit gates after hatch closing), why do you not hide with a hatch build? That would be better for your statistic.
Im just curious, bc i do not count it. I still play the hatch game seriously, but if its two survivor i normally take the chase (except i get slugged once, then i will hide until eternity).
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@random1543 said:
A lot of things seem to happen in match, Ill point out points I saw during match
- When you go down in first chase you run the same way killer is going to cut you off, going through other door ace could of body blocked, minor point not a big deal.
- Ace made bad play while you where on fresh hook looping around you rather then leaving area, steve does this as well staying in area allowing grab to happen nearby, this is the major thing that snowballed match imo
- you allowed grab to happen at pallet rather then running away with endurance, another one that isnt biggest deal as we have all done that
- bill decided to crouch around in circles as killer is picking up another person while you are on second stage.
A lot of this match could of gone better if they would just add some sort of comm wheel for survivors so that more communication could happen, tell everyone to leave hook then killer either proxies or leaves and finds someone.
Not pointing out these points as criticism just what i saw watching match.More comms would be probably good, but is not really about match information in this case.
Its about basic game information (looping around the hook is bad). You could also use comms to explain someone the game, but some players do not like that and react annoyed.
The game would need tutorials about those topics. But comms would help in other cases.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4041829#Comment_4041829
any good killer would abandon chase and go for someone else, or that killer could get a down pretty quick. if your a pro looper yes that can work IF your team mates are doing gens. if they are not doing gens then your looping will amount to nothing. A common issue in soloq is peoples refusal to touch gens because they are boring. they want chases, they want interaction. but when they go down in 10 seconds and they find out they cant out loop the killer then its "dont tunnel me".
i have looped the killer for ages, enough for multiple gens to be done….were they done? nope, there are people hovering around with a flashlight waiting for a save or spinning in circles on the edge of the map or doing totems, maybe doing gens but failing every single skill check somehow. That is why stealth is my first and foremost tactic, dont get chased, do gens and only loop if i have to because i often cant rely on my team to do gens. i cant even rely on them to loop very well which is why i bring hatch offerings a lot. i cover my bases and rely on the team less than most. Thats how i survive and escape and avoid being tunneled. all 3 of these things are something many survivors complain about. i found my own way to play that works for me.
Of course they will abandon after a while, but its still better than them chasing someone else immediately. Stealthing would only buy more time if an entire swf does it.
It also means i have more time for gens. I can run to the best gen and do it out in the open. I do not need to waste time with stealth bc the killer doesnt want to chase me anymore. Like is said i use stealth only in special situations.
And yes, people sometimes do no gens. But they also wouldnt do it while someone goes down in 10 seconds. And if they are going down that fast i cant do all gens in time. If im spawning alone on a gen, im doing it. There are good loopers out there and then its a great start. But sadly the risk of a 30-second-down, no gens finished and gen-regression kicking in is too high.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4041801#Comment_4041801
when stealth fails i have to loop…. being in these situations has helped me to get good at both stealth and chases. i rather avoid chases and do gens than avoid gens and get chased. thats just common sense in a game where the objective is do gens and escape before the killer kills you.
you think griefer and solo players that do challenges like escape via the hatch or do stuns or cleanse totems care about being a team player? they dont. you said it yourself you avoid solo because you dont want awful team mates….even if they try to be team players they can still be bad players as you know.
Basekit kindred or bond….sure, make it easier for griefers to run directly to the people doing gens to sabotage them lol. You say about this SWF being powerful like a myth yet you rarely play solo and everything you advocate for is directly benefiting SWF while not giving solo players a second thought or how it would effect them because you dont play solo. It comes across like your bitter that players like me that actually use their brains and avoid the killer while doing the objective can win but the people that go for chases lose. When you play solo regularly night after night, not just accasionally, you will see why the idea of a team win/loss would not go down well for you as a solo player.
It seems like that but the best start is to have the most gen progress before the first down.
So as experienced player i will run into the middle of the map and search for the killer. Then i will act like i certainly dont want to be chased (teabag as aggro could work, but i dont bm) and loop as long as possible. If im later on deadhook, i will disappear and play it safe. But if i have zero hooks i will just do gens 10m next to a chasing killer.
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The problem are the things survivor do instead of doing gens.
You cant do anything about survivor being scared of the tr, chasing the chase with a flashlight or doing nothing.
But side-objectives like chests and dull totems (without perks) are a part of the game for a long time and they are just useless for winning.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4041623#Comment_4041623
ThIs is pretty rare on my end, especially compared to my killer matches, where I get at least one script-flip every session. Even with that good chase, there's a solid chance the killler will at least get a 2k or slug everyone in end game. I've had plenty of matches where I loose momentum and gens start popping even though I have everyone with hook states and someone dead, but this comebacks is usually everyone dead at 1 gen instead of 4.
But I also feel anyone with any sense will drop chase if a gen or two pops with no down.
I think the problem is the give-up-mentality. I did (and probably still do) see matches as unwinnable too quick.
And there are 3 or 4 people on survivor who need to push for the win even if it looks bad, only one for killer. There are also some killer with a catch-up-mechanic (basement trapper, Twins/Billy slug, etc.) or perks. A clear win on survivor is also boring (people doing only gens), so people tend to go for risky plays to get some excitement.
Bc of that people have more turnaround experience as killer and that motivates to stay in a losing match. Even one down (and three others in an opened exit) can turn around bc of altruism.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4041590#Comment_4041590
I haven't noticed any specific trends. It's been going on for about as long as I can remember. It's usually when things are wildly snowballing in the killer's favor early on. I actually have two examples from just last night:
First was a killer match. I downed someone super fast at the beginning and hooked them. I moved on and found someone else to hook. I then came upon that first person again, on a gen, still injured, and downed them. I was Undetectable and came around a corner, so I'm sure that upset them. They didn't struggle when I carried them and then AFKed under hook. They had two hooks with 5 gens up so they felt hopeless, and I can't blame them. The team could still win, but they knew they're own win was unlikely.
Second was a survivor match with two duos. The other pair were TTVers, and they were also hooked early. They just gave up, and that caused us other two to loose as well.
The problem is a few things. There's no reason to continue if you're heading for either a personal death or a team loss, especially if you've already hit a certain burnout threshold. There's also no chance of a proper comeback in these sorts of scenarios. Case in point, one of my killer matches from last night:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/QU2MYD7F9F6R/19b767a211410-screenshoturl.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/QOLHXJVP6FUJ/19b767a7e5e1-screenshoturl.jpg
Hooks were spread. No one was tunneled or targeted. Didn't change much from beginning to end. And what do they get for this unpleasant match? No chance of comeback and low scores. The Bill DCed as he was in the dying animation out of what I'd assume was pure frustration. There's just nothing encouraging survivors to carry on. On the flipside, I regularly play as straight trash as killer, get like one or two hooks like a total noob, and end up with a 3k or 4k in end game by some kind of heavenly intervention. It's been my consistent belief that this lack of a shock turnaround on the survivor side is why survivors are more prone to hopelessness.
The shock turnaround for survivor is one really good chase (and the rest of the survivors sitting on gens).
Most of the time it happens for me after a first tunnel out. The killer feels safe and doesnt drop chase in a really good looping spot. Maybe he even tries to get some stylepoints with his power.
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I agree that the top tier killer need to be weaker, but its not their mobility, its their lethality. Your changes (Blight addons/Nurse aura reading) target exactly that.
You kinda say all that in the second half, but your headline and the first part go into a different direction.
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@FerrousFacade said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4041228#Comment_4041228
I have seen a match from DBDLeague on an unrestricted night against blight (sadly the broadcast is no longer available otherwise I would link to it). No perk or item restrictions on either side. The blight won.
Yes, but which teams were playing? Isnt that more like Community Cups (if we mean the same thing) with weaker/new teams.
The sad thing with comp is that there are maybe 3-4 teams which effortlessly dominate the rest. Doesnt really matter about Blight stats in Comp, but about which skill level are we talking?
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@FerrousFacade said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4040867#Comment_4040867
I literally linked to the document containing that list, you don't need to include it in your post, I clearly looked at it. If you are trying to show something like the survivor side being longer its meaningless when stuff like Alert, Low Profile and THWACK are on them.
Ya, plenty of things are banned on both sides and in my opinion the overall list hurts killers way more than it hurts survivors. As we go down the tiers more perks get added to the survivor list but that doesn't apply to blight. Power struggle, your random survivor complaint, isn't stopping a comp blight nor would stacking anti-tunnel, they can tunnel through a DH and DS, no additional perks are going to make that more effective. Blight can't use the strongest gen regression perks and isn't allowed to use brutal strength, generally considered his strongest perk. These restrictions hurt blight more than they hurt survivors.
Thats your opinion. But i dont want to discuss every perk with you or which one has the longer ban list. I just wanted to make clear that the comp balance is pretty different from casual and you shouldnt rate a killer with comp statistics if we are talking about pubs.
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@Philscooper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4040804#Comment_4040804
Doesnt help with gens. When killers bring gen-regression.
Doesnt help when you or others are slugged
Doesnt help when you or others are tunneled
Doesnt help when you or someone else is chased.
Doesnt help with soloq, unless you bring a self-heal build. But you still dont have windows and kindred.
You said healing build in an swf, if solo que doesnt want to be healed, it gets obviously harder.
But in general:
Gens: less time healing, more time for gens.
Slugging: Picking up is a healing action, thats where your build should shine.
Tunneling: Helps to bodyblock and heal fast afterwards
Chase: Again bodyblocks or just reset after the hook
It doesnt work if you are in chase or even incapacitated (hook/slug). Gen builds also dont work, only chase. But chase builds are useless if you dont get hunted. You need to play for your build, but sometimes you will still be found first with your healing build, it happens.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4040675#Comment_4040675
spirit used to be my most hated killer when she had 0 counterplay in her kit and also had busted numbers. Compared to before she is quite healthy and balanced, as long as you aren't hearing impaired. the audio cue addition as well as toning down her numbers have made her able to be outplayed by survivors and has less mobility for map traversal.
imo Xenomorph, Cenobite, Unknown, Animatronic and Vecna are what I'd consider balanced.
Thats a good middle ground. They are a bit weaker than Artist etc., but pretty close. Imo Spirit is still a lot stronger than them (maybe not on a really big map).