TheHourMan
TheHourMan
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No perk should be assumed to be had by all survivors when taking balance into account.Master said:@TheHourMan said:
Leatherface should be the only killer capable of downing both survivors when they come to save. We don't need another leatherface. There should be a perk that gives both survivors a big speed boost for 3 seconds on a successful unhook. That would help a lot when combined with the new hook change.You mean invulnerability from BT and sprintburst isnt enough?
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Good pointPeanits said:I would disagree on giving both survivors a speed boost on unhook. I've had so many times where someone I'm chasing goes for the unhook, in spite of being in an active chase. If they got a speed boost, it'd be like a free sprint burst on top of getting an unhook. It'd make careless unhooks into good unhooks, and I don't see any benefit to doing that.
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Alternatively, the unhooked survivor should be immune to regular hits by the killer for 2 seconds after any unhook. Still vulnerable to powers though.
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They are going to buff killers accordingly too yenno. Haven't you always wanted killers to be balanced to counter swf?KillingInstinct said:@deadwolfwalking said:
"We know SWF is unbalaned. We're gonna fix it. We're gonna balance SWF by making solo play just as effective. See? We need 4 ppl happy to play and one miserable bastard to host em. We ******* hate killers " - DBD dev team 2018Omg that is so true! I can't even remember them saying ''We'll balance SWF.'' since it's been so long ago hahaha
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It's not about moral or immoral, it is about actively sabotaging other survivors and helping the killer get them. Yes, you do it for profit and not to help the killer, but the intention doesn't justify feeding survivors to the killer.
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No. They're not. You can still get loads of points for going lone wolf. And you can still get loads of points for unhooking. You just can't get loads of points for preventing other players from escaping. You are wanting to be rewarded for actively stopping other survivors from escaping. It is the exact same thing as sandbagging and holding another player in place with heal. You shouldnt be rewarded for those either. Unhooking another player is to save them. Unhooking them in a situation where it got them killed is entirely your fault. It is the killer's job to hit people and if you fed him a free hit, you are helping the killer at the expense of other players. That is explicity stated as being agains the rules as a bannable offense.Outland said:@TheHourMan said:
Outland said:@TheHourMan said:
Outland said:
@TheHourMan said: You should not be rewarded for making a bad play. If you take a hit to protect your team mate when you unhook them, then good. More points for you. But you aren't brave enough to do that. You just want your team mate to go down so you can get them killed and then run away. Its a valid tactic, I've been promised that I can play for the team or greedy for myself. And if that means unsafe unhooks the action was taken, the risk was present, and the job was done, points are due. Right or wrong be damned, the action was taken and yeah points are expected.
What is the purpose of the devs putting the unhook mechanic in the game? Because I guarantee it is not to give players another way of getting points.
Because getting one hooked, ranks up there with getting first minute mori'd.
And if they didn't give so many points, why would people do it in the end game. (Aside from SWF, thats another issue) but for 4 strangers that have no attachment to each other, I'll take the 5k leave over getting you off the hook if there is nothing in it for myself.
And that's human nature, in the end, when the chips are down, my life is more valuable to me then yours. If you argue that you are lying to yourself. So why can't I be true to my nature while playing this game, perhaps I'm that absorbed, that to me I'm the one that NEEDS to live.
This is a MULTIPLAYER GAME not a TEAM GAME, though it is starting to morph that way.
If it's not a team game, then maybe you should just do kyf one on one and tell me how fair it is. If you are that selfish, then yes, by all means, take a key and escape through the hatch when there are still 3 gens left. Leave your team behind. Escape through the gates as soon as they open. Whatever. But you should not be rewarded for forcing another player into a situation where they have virtually no chance of survival.
Guys, for the last time, STOP LOOKING AT THE EXAMPLE I USED... its not the f'n point. The point here is the devs are removing the freedom to play how you want and point up. We were promised a game where we can play as team based as we want or as out for myself as I want.
Somewhere along the line survivors complained moral police force into the game.
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If anything, unhooking someone within 10 feet of the killer should make you have the exposed status. At least that way it would be kind of fair, since you and the unhooked surv would be just as vulnerable as eachother.
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If it's not a team game, then maybe you should just do kyf one on one and tell me how fair it is. If you are that selfish, then yes, by all means, take a key and escape through the hatch when there are still 3 gens left. Leave your team behind. Escape through the gates as soon as they open. Whatever. But you should not be rewarded for forcing another player into a situation where they have virtually no chance of survival.Outland said:@TheHourMan said:
Outland said:@TheHourMan said:
You should not be rewarded for making a bad play. If you take a hit to protect your team mate when you unhook them, then good. More points for you. But you aren't brave enough to do that. You just want your team mate to go down so you can get them killed and then run away.
Its a valid tactic, I've been promised that I can play for the team or greedy for myself. And if that means unsafe unhooks the action was taken, the risk was present, and the job was done, points are due. Right or wrong be damned, the action was taken and yeah points are expected.
What is the purpose of the devs putting the unhook mechanic in the game? Because I guarantee it is not to give players another way of getting points.
Because getting one hooked, ranks up there with getting first minute mori'd.
And if they didn't give so many points, why would people do it in the end game. (Aside from SWF, thats another issue) but for 4 strangers that have no attachment to each other, I'll take the 5k leave over getting you off the hook if there is nothing in it for myself.
And that's human nature, in the end, when the chips are down, my life is more valuable to me then yours. If you argue that you are lying to yourself. So why can't I be true to my nature while playing this game, perhaps I'm that absorbed, that to me I'm the one that NEEDS to live.
This is a MULTIPLAYER GAME not a TEAM GAME, though it is starting to morph that way.
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Should you be rewarded for sandbagging someone for the killer? I mean, whether or not they get hit is entirely up to a third party (the Killer)Outland said:@Orion said:
@Outland said:
Anyways look at this situation as the devs removing your freedom to play the game how you want. That is the main topic here, and I'm beginning to think I should have just stated that from the beginning, but what can I do now?They're not removing your freedom to do anything. You can still grief other players. You just won't be rewarded for it.
By taking away the points for an action, it makes it so that the action isn't viable/profitable. Therefore they are modifying game play. And I've never been one for much censoring of anything in my life, so I find taking away my points for the actions of a third party (the Killer) as unacceptable.
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(Hint: it is to stop the hooked player from dying.)
If you intentionally get the hooked player killed, it defeats the purpose of not just removing hooks entirely and having the killer mori
everyone right away. That is literally why hooks are even in the game. Not just to feed points to you.
You should not be rewarded for getting another player killed with an action that is meant to hel them. That is like saying "survivors should be rewarded for holding other survivors in place with the heal mechanic so the killer can get them" -
What is the purpose of the devs putting the unhook mechanic in the game? Because I guarantee it is not to give players another way of getting points.Outland said:@TheHourMan said:
You should not be rewarded for making a bad play. If you take a hit to protect your team mate when you unhook them, then good. More points for you. But you aren't brave enough to do that. You just want your team mate to go down so you can get them killed and then run away.Its a valid tactic, I've been promised that I can play for the team or greedy for myself. And if that means unsafe unhooks the action was taken, the risk was present, and the job was done, points are due. Right or wrong be damned, the action was taken and yeah points are expected.
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What about when the killer literally just hooked them a second ago or was chasing you when you ran over to unhook?Der_Schatten said:The Problem is not the "Farm" its the Killer Camping... otherwise there is not such thing as Farming. And what about : "Killer is Hardcore Camping... you now dont have a reason to unhook cuz u would not even get any points... just risking your own life"
And how will this affect BT?
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You should not be rewarded for making a bad play. If you take a hit to protect your team mate when you unhook them, then good. More points for you. But you aren't brave enough to do that. You just want your team mate to go down so you can get them killed and then run away.
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There is zero chance they get away if the killer is two feet away from them. The only chance they have is if the killer decides to intentionally let them go. You don't deserve points for "saving" a member of your TEAM and dooming them at the same time, intentionally. If you did it by mistake, fine, fair mistake. But if you did it intentionally, knowing full well that there is nothing they can do to get away, then you don't deserve to be rewarded for that.Outland said:@TheHourMan said:
Outland said:@WhateverIGuess said:
Maybe.... because most people do it just to troll? Or when they have WGLF. Honestly, if you wanna play like this, it's your choice, but then don't be surprised if people do it to you. Or if non-sweaty killers camp you, which has 0.01% chance of happening because it's summer and every killer is sweaty.
I 100% support people doing it right back. That is my point here, my personal freedoms in how I play are now being removed.
I'm supposed to have the CHOICE to play for the team or for myself. Whether is scummy or not is 100% another topic. I think that the right to play greedy is an option that some people want to play. And as free thinking people we should be able to.
Having the devs police behaviour is ridiculous, where do we draw the line?
All you lemmings think that its ok if they remove freedoms just so long as you see it as justified. But what happens when they decide to police some action you love to do. Maybe down the road they decide that looping is goofy so instead of changing the game so that looping is not possible, they just say for every loop past the second one we remove 150 BPs.
There that should fix looping. Or at least make it so that it isn't profitable.
I know they would never do that, but this is exactly the thing I'm talking about they are removing a way of playing because it is unpopular. By punishing the points awarded.
Stop thinking about the specific thing being punished here, and look past it to the core message being sent.
We the DEVS are going to mold you into playing the way we think you should. This isn't cool, not in the current world, where we are supposed to be free thinking people.
There is a big difference between trying to nudge you into a certain playstyle and preventing you from griefing. The fact is that there is absolutely nothing another player can to do prevent you from getting them sacrificed unless they have borrowed time. They have no control over their character when you do this to them and are complely at the mercy of the killer. There is a big rule of thumb in game design and that is "do not punish players for something they have no control over. The people on the hook are being punished for your greed and there is literally nothing they can do to stop it unless they happen to have a certain perk equipped. That is a flaw in the game itself and should be patched out.
The only problem with this is that if I don't try, they 100% just die on that hook. And if I do try there is a chance they get away. Who is that guy who says, a small chance at escaping and making more points... nah F'That I'll just die here on this hook.
Once you are on that hook, you really don't have much of a choice anyways, struggle for a few more points or just give up and die. Once you are hooked , whether you like it or not, YOU ARE JUST ANOTHER OBJECTIVE. And if I do the action I deserve the points.
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There is a big difference between trying to nudge you into a certain playstyle and preventing you from griefing. The fact is that there is absolutely nothing another player can to do prevent you from getting them sacrificed unless they have borrowed time. They have no control over their character when you do this to them and are complely at the mercy of the killer. There is a big rule of thumb in game design and that is "do not punish players for something they have no control over." The people on the hook are being punished for your greed and there is literally nothing they can do to stop it unless they happen to have a certain perk equipped. That is a flaw in the game itself and should be patched out.Outland said:@WhateverIGuess said:
Maybe.... because most people do it just to troll? Or when they have WGLF. Honestly, if you wanna play like this, it's your choice, but then don't be surprised if people do it to you. Or if non-sweaty killers camp you, which has 0.01% chance of happening because it's summer and every killer is sweaty.I 100% support people doing it right back. That is my point here, my personal freedoms in how I play are now being removed.
I'm supposed to have the CHOICE to play for the team or for myself. Whether is scummy or not is 100% another topic. I think that the right to play greedy is an option that some people want to play. And as free thinking people we should be able to.
Having the devs police behaviour is ridiculous, where do we draw the line?
All you lemmings think that its ok if they remove freedoms just so long as you see it as justified. But what happens when they decide to police some action you love to do. Maybe down the road they decide that looping is goofy so instead of changing the game so that looping is not possible, they just say for every loop past the second one we remove 150 BPs.
There that should fix looping. Or at least make it so that it isn't profitable.
I know they would never do that, but this is exactly the thing I'm talking about they are removing a way of playing because it is unpopular. By punishing the points awarded.
Stop thinking about the specific thing being punished here, and look past it to the core message being sent.
We the DEVS are going to mold you into playing the way we think you should. This isn't cool, not in the current world, where we are supposed to be free thinking people.
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How is the person unhooking being punished? Again, I think that just losinga percentage of bp for thag match each time you do this would be fair and would incentivise waiting until the killer is a safe distance away without forcing it.People who unhook you in front of the killer and cause the other to be immediately downed and rehooked just for points are punished for being idiots. It's fair and just. -
I guess I will just say it. The hatch spawns once two gens have been completed and at least one survivor is no longer in play. That means they could be dead, disconnected or have escaped. It opens when you are the last living survivor on the map or have unlocked it with a key. You can not jump into the hatch if the killer is blocking it unless you have character collision turned off (like from taking a hit.) If the killer taps the attack button when the survivor is in the animation for jumping in, the killer will grab them and put them on their shoulder. This causes hatch standoffs where the killer refuses to his the survivor because they want to catch them while they jump in. The survivor wants the killer to hit them so they can clip through the killer and jump into the hatch uninterrupted. This is why I say the killer should be able to close the hatch. Or maybe some alternate solution. But hatch standoffs need to be killed.
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Actually, you have chanhed my mind. We should not get the passive kindred. It complety defeats the purpose of having the obsession mechanic changed. And the devs said they wanted to add something for normal survivors being chased. That would be pointless if you could just look over and see it. Granted, a person needs to be hooked, but still. If we do get passive kindred, I hope it is vastly inferior to the kindred perk.Aari_Piggy66 said:
That's a big difference between vocal information and someone has to tell a person and visual information that everyone can see.Peanits said:I would say no.
The intent with kindred is to help bring solo players up to the same level as SWF, then allowing them to buff killers without leaving solo players in the dust. SWF groups can already share the same information except better and in more detail. Kindred will not reveal a killer further than 8m away, while a premade group could let you know any time they're within the terror radius. Premade groups can even call out insidious camping killers just outside the 8m range, whereas kindred would not.
It's not really a buff to survivors as a whole. It's information that's already there for many people. It's just leveling the playing field, making it possible to buff killers.
Even so, if killers were to receive a baseline perk, I don't know why it would be BBQ & Chili. It's already a great perk that's well worth a slot. Kindred definitely isn't one of the best perks out there, so comparing the two is totally bonkers. If anything, I would say some sort of built in ruin to slow down generator progression. Though this was also mentioned on the same stream, where they talked about potentially adding a secondary objective for survivors. I feel like that's the route to go there.
The most someone could tell their friends is no one's coming for me or you guys are across map that is vastly different from being able to see everybody's positions.
I like what they did with the obsession mechanics it was subtle. you didn't know where that person what killer was chasing them all you knew was that they were being chased.
As I said before it is a buff to survivors on the whole ( which is the bad thing) you seeing the situation for yourself is always going to be vastly better than someone describing it to you.
The point I'm trying to make here is it's a very powerful ability to give away for free. -
That's interesting. Makes sense though. If one player wants to rush the match and just get their pip while everyone else wants a long match for bp, what then? Or a more likely scenario, if one person wants a quick pip while everyone else is just playing for fun and doesn't care how long the match drags on.SenzuDuck said:One of the most annoying things in this game is when killers want to farm points and they continue to do so at the expense of the gameplay.
I'm pretty sure they've said it's banable if it affects another player, therefore if the survivors are just trying to play the match but you constantly try and farm and don't kill them It can be punishable.
However if everyone is just farming and messing about I think it's ok, or if a survivor stays at the end ofthe match and you just mess about it's fine, but if it affects another player (farming someone off the hook, letting a survivor pull them off and repeating until the others are dead is punishable).
The funny thing with this match was that it was actually a very good match, post match chat aside. They made good escapes and I made several good insidious jumpscares (dropping from the second floor right next to them with the chainsaw going) and overall it was still competetive. Two of them nearly bled out on the ground even without the hooks. I suppose fun is subjective though and a person wanting a quick match would be very annoyed by this. -
I'm honestly shocked at how few people will get what you're saying hereShadoureon said:@Master said:
@Chi said:
@Master said:
@Milo said:
@Master said:
@Chi said:
It wouldn't be fair. The killer is much faster than the survivor so they will be more likely to find it. Survivors also have to be more careful walking around.
They are thinking of changing the entire endgame anyway, so I am just waiting for that.Survivors are 4 guys that walk around and can inform each other of the hatchs location
- You need to be SWF
- You need to complete 5 gens before hatch even spawns with 4 people
Since SWF is a thing in this game, the game must be balanced around it.
Or are killers supposed to dodge every SWF because it is unbalanced?You need to complete 2 gens and then you can already search for the hatch. You can find it, but it is still closed.
A competent SWF can inform each other who is being chased and usually 2 gens can be done in the first chase.I know, there are games where survivors play so bad that you can 4k them at 5 gens left, but you have to assume that both sides use all tools available to them, otherwise "balance" would be a joke
Huh? The hatch only spawns with 2 generators done, if there is only one person alive. So the survivor wouldn't be able to look for it beforehand.
Thats not true, once 2 gens have been done,the hatch spawns in closed state and will open once enough survivors are dead.
Guess you are still a new survivor
Gl searching for a hatch when 2 gens are done and 4 survivors are alive mr veteran.
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Good point. I still would love to see something though. However that is getting off topic from OP, so I will put more thought into that and make a different thread on itTsulan said:@TheHourMan said:
Although finding addons would be kind of cool too. Or maybe even extracting an addon from the corpse of a dead survivor.This could cause tunneling.
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Although finding addons would be kind of cool too. Or maybe even extracting an addon from the corpse of a dead survivor.
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Nahh. More just like objects the killer can put up or interact with in order to help them kill or explore other playstyles. Maybe booby trapping an object, taking time to seal off on exit gate, etc. Just environmental interactions around the map.
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Agreed. But killers have always relied on survivors to be idiots. I think that is core to the game as it is now. Hopefully killer skill will play a bigger role in the future.Sally55 said:@TheHourMan said:
Agreed. But camping is a strategy just like any other. If the exit gates are open and all 4 survs still alive, you're damn right I'm gonna try to lure everyone into basement get some cheap kills. And likewise, survivors should be able counter it by playing smart using certain perks. Yes, SWF can this, but I have played against who refuse abandon their friend wind up getting hooked with them. think that perfectly fair. Auras different story, admittedly not lot.You are still counting on the survivors to be idiots. I never go for basement saves if it's LF even if it's the end and the gates are powered tbh. Plus lets say they for some reason they do make that change to insidious. Survivors will be demanding the old borrowed time where both people were protected and that version was removed for a reason.
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I think that when the devs add more meaningful things for survs to do other than just gens and chases, it will help a lot tbh. I also really hope killers get the same treatment. More to do other than hooks and chases.Tsulan said:@TheHourMan said:
I think all killers should be as lethal as nurse, that camping is perfectly acceptable as long as the person being camped is compensated with bloodppints and that survivors are overpowered. But I also think you are overreacting and that these changes are simple quality of life changes. I would like to see bloodlust start immediately at 0 and slowly ramp up to +0.6m/s after 45 seconds rather than being in stages though. That would be nice.There shouldn´t be a need for BL in the first place. I would totally be ok with it, if the devs just remove BL after making the killer and survivor hitboxes the same size. Which would kill looping.
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It has never been clearly addressed afaik. I think that it is perfectly acceptable to go easy on bad players. And I also would go as far as saying that it is perfectly acceptable to stop at the exit gates after a legit match and let everyone get points for hitting and healing, since it does not interfere with normal gameplay, nor does it remove the competetive nature of the game.
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Yee. My question is "How much is too much in the eyes of the devs?"
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(Downgrading perks is a great punishment because it makes them have to do work to make up for the ragequit)Tsulan said:I think there should be a more severe punishment for dc. A different animation would give people an incentive to do it even more.
This has gotten out of hand. I rarely finish a game where all 4 survivors play till the end. Most of the times the Obsession uses DS, gets downed and disconnects. -
Agreed. But camping is a strategy just like any other. If the exit gates are open and all 4 survs still alive, you're damn right I'm gonna try to lure everyone into basement get some cheap kills. And likewise, survivors should be able counter it by playing smart using certain perks. Yes, SWF can this, but I have played against who refuse abandon their friend wind up getting hooked with them. think that perfectly fair. Auras different story, admittedly not lot.
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Also, I did mention that the reason I did this was simply because I had already beaten them, but have no interest in short matches. I don't want a 3 minute long match that only gets me like 5,000 bp. Gen rushing is already bad enough. When the game ends in less than 5 min, it is boring.
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Premonition is fair though. It doesnt reveal the exact aura or position of the killer to the whole team. It is personal use only.Sally55 said:@TheHourMan said:
I just really hope this doesn't kill insidious basement leatherface. Insidious should hide your aura imoEven if it did you still would have to worry about premonition since it trumps all killer stealth abilities except tier 1 myers..
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I got reported for using the tinkerer 2 "exploit" when I wasn't aware of it at all. Was kind of ridiculous. It is not an exploit, it is a bug.
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I think that being unhooked right next to the killer multiple times in a row is unacceptable, but should not be prevented by mechanics. I think that the best solution would be to make that person who unhooked lose 25% of all bloodpoints for that match each time the person they unhook goes down again within 2 seconds.
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I think all killers should be as lethal as nurse, that camping is perfectly acceptable as long as the person being camped is compensated with bloodppints and that survivors are overpowered. But I also think you are overreacting and that these changes are simple quality of life changes. I would like to see bloodlust start immediately at 0 and slowly ramp up to +0.6m/s after 45 seconds rather than being in stages though. That would be nice.
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I feel like ragequits should have every single one of their perks downgraded by 1 every time they ragequit
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I just really hope this doesn't kill insidious basement leatherface. Insidious should hide your aura imo
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The whole point is to make it so that SWF doesnt have an advantage over solo. Calm down. Since the killer doesn't get to communicate with survs, it makes this completely unrelated. the devs are now starting to go back and look at the game with the realization that SWF is overpowered in the current state of things, so they are balancing the game to take SWF into account.
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I think it would be fine. The hatch is fair as it is now, because it is a test of patience if the killer finds it first. But what was not fair was the killer instantly closing the hatch. I think if it took the killer some time to do it, it would be much better. However, other tweaks could be made so that the survivor can not jump into a hatch instantly after being hit and that the hatch can be used by the survivor for the first 10 seconds of the killer's closing animation.
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Exactly. I believe that the 15 meter minimum distance from gens and surv spawns is the best solution
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By taking 30 seconds to close, I mean requiring the killer to actively hold the action button on the hatch for 30 seconds, not just having the hatch close on its own.
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Based off of what the devs have been saying lately, I think the next killer will be focused around area control and making the survivors play stealthy.
They have expressed a concern with how people feel games are going by too quickly, so they want to add more meaningful things to do outside of gens. They also have been trying to create perks/characters that counter the current metas.
Idk at all what the killer will be lore/story wise, but it is very possible that we will finally see a flying or climbing killer that can look for survivors from a high vantage point. The perks will almost certainly focus on rewarding you for not camping and playing differently from what the current meta is.
I know this is vague, but these are the only things that I am confidant in with what we have so far.