SuzuKR
SuzuKR
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It blows my mind people will see the decent characters and the varying degrees of mildly to largely subpar characters and demand nerfs for the former instead of buffs for the latter.
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@RisingTron said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3055329#Comment_3055329
It's literally an unintended bug. Why should they keep it when it's not intended.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3055307#Comment_3055307
Fun fact, Blight is one of my favorite killers to go against. Unlike Nurse, I feel like I'm able to actually do stuff at loops other than hold w and pray. If the Blight has a better gaming chair oh well, I still find him fun. Get rid of his busted add-ons and the bug tech. Is he going to suddenly become F tier? No. Does anyone want him f tier? No.
When I'm in a chase with Blight, I have options. I can actually apply what I've learned in my over 3k hours of playing and Blight plays loops in an engaging way. Nurse takes everything you've learned about the game and throws it out the window. Taking what should be the most fun and engaging aspect of the game (The chases.) and making them a snoozefest.
Nurse and Blight shouldn't even be comparable because Blight is actually fun and engaging for both sides.
But my question for y'all is: If Blight is so good without add-ons or hug tech...why fight so hard to keep the add-ons and hug tech? Like yeah, Blight is clearly very good without those things. But I'm getting so many mixed messages in this thread.
"I don't even use hug tech. Only rarely. Blight doesn't need it." "Plz bhvr plz listen to us it's so fun and has a high skill ceiling it absolutely needs to stay."
Because hug tech is one form of sliding. Hug tech specifically is unintentional, sliding is intentional.
Bump logic: Uses more rushes, takes more time (because of needing to bounce around more), but offers way more versatility and reliability
Sliding: Uses less rushes, takes less time, but way easier to counter (leaving the loop counters it) and reduces your options (sliding semi-"sticks" you to the surface, preventing the same near-complete free range of options bump logic gives)
Having more options is fun, sliding in specific is fun (and hug tech is one of multiple ways to slide), removing hug tech will likely lead to bugs in bump logic and non-hug tech sliding (both of which are intentional mechanics), and it also increases mindgaming in chase. Now instead of the Blight mindgaming with just bump logic approach while starting at a loop, it’s bump logic approach OR hug tech, and the survivor can also respond to either.
It would be better to just balance Blight around it than remove a neat little unintended result that will create more problems trying to remove it.
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@AVoiceOfReason said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3054590#Comment_3054590
The title was asking WHY, not a chart about the Nurse having the lowest kill rate. Just because YOU do not think the add-ons are a problem doesn't mean OTHERS think that.
I’d be genuinely interested to see a statistically significant amount of gameplay against equally skilled players on equal-sided maps as proof indicating the disparity by which she overperforms when using those add-ons compared to not using them. If you have it, please let me know.
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@Xendritch said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3054573#Comment_3054573
So your evidence for it is BHVR a company that has taken years to get DH, DS, and are just now tackling problems with tunneling camping that have existed from the beginning of the game's release would change nurse if she warped the game around her?
lol
It's convenient that you've forgotten BHVR has already said those perks were problems in the past and had been working on different ideas on how to adjust or balance them since then. Also having addressed both tunneling and camping in discussions directly from even years ago. And they are completely radio silent without even a single ounce of explicit proof of the claims the rumors assert are true.
Also not a comparable analogy, because they have not been actively buffing DH/DS directly or indirectly nonstop repeatedly tons of times after having said they will receive changes until said changes happened. You made an attempt, I guess.
@AVoiceOfReason said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3054584#Comment_3054584
You should read the title of OP's post then.
It's amazing how you make a post that responds to no actual point. "Why do people genuinely want Nurse nerfed?" Almost like people can clamor for things regardless of data, because it is how they personally feel or how they personally think from their own anecdotal experience. You made an attempt, I guess? I don't know what point you thought you were making.
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@AVoiceOfReason said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3054573#Comment_3054573
I play Nurse. I know her add-ons very well and I know the ones that I USE all the time because they provide a great benefit without losing memory of her range. I've also faced her multiple times as survivor. All 3 need to be removed. If not, guess what? I'll keep playing her until everyone cannot stand her even more. Feel free to say what you like. Its a discussion. Every point is valid so don't discredit mine with nonsense. Thank you.
Okay, you are free to use whatever add-ons you like. No one is stopping you? You are free to find actual statistically significant gameplay evidence Nurse overperforms when using those add-ons compared to not. Anecdotes and personal opinions is not evidence.
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@AVoiceOfReason said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3054568#Comment_3054568
Anything that helps her recover from using her power sooner or helps her find a survivor sooner after using her power should be removed since she ignores EVERY rule in DBD that a survivor can use. Period.
Mindgaming and breaking LoS are fundamental parts of the game against literally every single killer in the game. Please stop parroting that misnomer. It detracts from honest discussion.
@Xendritch said:
I want nurse nerfed so the game can be balanced properly and we can buff certain killer perks that can't be buffed currently because it would be busted on nurse and same with new perk design.
The killer meta is balanced around nurse and I don't know why we pretend it isn't.
Refer to this post to understand that myth is a blatantly false rumor with zero evidence, and plenty of evidence to the contrary: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3054244/#Comment_3054244
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@AVoiceOfReason said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3054558#Comment_3054558
The reason she has a CD is to give time for a survivor to get away when she messes up. Recharge add-ons negates that. There is no need for those. Same with Fatigue. Lets the Nurse see where you ran early while she recovers her blink charges. Same dilemma. All 3 need removed if she's gonna be balanced.
It doesn't negate it. It gives less time (double recharge = 4s for 2 blinks instead of 6) but she still has to win a mindgame to land a hit either way regardless. Even without fatigue reduction add-ons (which are not even that good in the first place because of their tiny impact), she will figure out where you ran from scratch marks/footsteps/sounds of pain/etc. Range add-ons affect the blink speed and three blinks gives her a third blink to reposition with, which alters the mindgame itself. Which is why they're problematic design.
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@AVoiceOfReason said:
Just her add-ons that effect range, fatigue and blink recovery time needs to be removed and changed into something else.
Recharge/fatigue add-ons are a non-issue. They don't change how her mindgame works like the way range or three blinks do.
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Pro tip: Adding evidence to a supposed claim makes it meaningful.
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@Tatt3dWon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3054346#Comment_3054346
in number 2 you just admitted she needs to be nerfed sooo i guess thanks for agreeing with what you have been disagreeing about.
Correct, range and three blinks add-ons should be reworked. Everything else is perfectly fine and balanced.
@Raccoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3054346#Comment_3054346
Dunno why you're consistently wasting your keystrokes on someone that is obviously posting in bad faith in literally every topic they post in.
Boredom.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Because she has no counterplay, she breaks the gameplay loop of the game, and she is bullshit.
Actual gameplay disagrees. Extremely good Nurses against equally good survivors averages out to even results (uneven maps not withstanding). And if she had no counterplay, she would not get destroyed by survivors that are better than the killer player. MMR not being able to match an even-skill lobby together for the small percentage of the playerbase that is absurdly good is not a balance problem, nor is this even a DBD-specific thing. And people will overrate whatever they lose against as well as remember it more vividly (confirmation bias of negative versus positive/neutral).
She bypasses some standards and substitutes them with others.
Last point is subjective, so can't comment.
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Server checks hit versus drop.
Example A: Killer swings -----> Killer lands hit -> Survivor drops ------> Killer gets hit
Example B: Killer swings -----> Survivor drops -> Killer lands hit -------> Hit is validated and thus cancelled
If you got hit, you dropped too late.
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- I don't know why you think this is relevant. Difficulty doesn't justify being overpowered, but she isn't overpowered in the first place. Also just because a content creator said something doesn't mean they're right lol.
- I already think range and three blink add-ons are busted. Basically no one is justifying omegablink either. Range needs a change.
- A player with literally thousands of hours and actually quite good at the game is far beyond what the average DBD player is already. There is a difference between someone like that and an actual beginner picking up the same killer. The former already knows enough of the game to work with fundamental knowledge. The latter does not.
- Nurse's skill ceiling is proportionate to the survivors' skill at facing Nurse, because as survivors get better at mindgaming Nurse, the Nurse also has to get better at mindgaming them back. And so on, into super high levels of play. Mindgaming is the ceiling, not the blinking itself. You could master blinking to a specific location accurately relatively fast. But making sure said specific location is the one to get the hit on the survivor is what's going to take time to get a grasp of, especially against survivors who are very good at facing a Nurse. You could practice nailing perfect aim Huntress shots at a window or pallet or across the map, but just because you know how to aim where to send it doesn't mean that's where the survivor will be. Where you'll have to blink changes throughout the match on the fly because of said mindgaming.
- A good player will win the majority of their games regardless of their picks because they will just outright be better than what MMR matches them against on average. This is why good players win almost every game regardless of survivor build or killer.
- Hillbilly is difficult because he is just straight up clunky and underwhelming, and doesn't give out the same effort you have to put in. Also the ability is auto-screwed on some tiles/maps regardless of skill just off of sheer tile/map RNG. As in, his ability is difficult because it demands way more effort than you're going to get rewarded for. That is not a good thing lmao.
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@Tatt3dWon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3054212#Comment_3054212
Here I think this person summed it up best
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/8GJL9YD4UI9C/exactly.png
Are you acting like this on purpose or do you not realize the irony of replying with that to a thread about ONE OF THOSE THREE KILLERS? This is unironically embarrassing.
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@Yords said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3054202#Comment_3054202
She can ignore everything survivors can do. Her power literally goes through walls and closes distance, especially with the range addons. And am I wrong for perks being held back because of nurse? Why shouldn't a perk such as lethal pursuer last up to 30 seconds if nurse holding it back isn't the case?
Breaking LOS does not work nearly as good against a good nurse player than the average one. And if she is using range, or recharge addons then your efforts are even less effective.
I am not saying any survivor should be able to run a killer for 5 gens at all. I just hate playing against nurse players who are good because it feels like playing against something that I can do very little about. And if they use addons it makes me feel like my efforts are almost meaningless. In a good nurse game there is no fun, it is just you running around corners hoping the nurse messes up.
Okay let me get this clear immediately. The notion she holds back anything is an unverified rumor and myth that has no basis in any actual developer statement. With that out of the way:
- If Nurse was a problem for literally holding back killers/perks as a whole, BHVR would change her (eg, nerf/rework/making basic M2/etc)
- If Nurse's synergy was such a problem, they would not release nor buff perks that have by far the best synergy on her even more than any other killer
- Buffs: Hex: Retribution (aura duration), No Way Out (blocked duration), Lethal Pursuer (PTB aura duration, mid-chapter bonus effect of +2s to all auras including itself), Dead Man's Switch (not needing obsession), Gift of Pain/Thanatophobia/Coulrophobia/Call of Brine/Eruption/Jolt/Knock Out (slowdowns buffed in midchapter), Monstrous Shrine, Pentimento (PTB used to have gen slowdown on second effect instead of first), etc.
- Releases: No Way Out, Lethal Pursuer, Starstruck, Scourge Hook: Pain Resonance, Scourge Hook: Floods of Rage, Deadlock, Call of Brine, Darkness Revealed, Hex: Pentimento, Grim Embrace, Hex: Plaything, Hex: Undying, etc.
@GentlemanFridge said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3054000#Comment_3054000
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3054112#Comment_3054112
Then why do I, a hopelessly average survivor, constantly face these good nurses?
Perhaps what makes a ‘good’ nurse is a far lower bar to reach than what makes a survivor ‘good’.
First of all, confirmation bias. Even evolutionarily, humans will remember negative experiences better than positive experiences. And average/neutral experiences even less so. Because if you don't remember real bad things, you might literally die. It is a given your worst matches will be the most memorable.
Second of all, Nurse is a fairly common pick (4th highest at one of the most recent checks). So you will be facing her decently commonly. Factor that in with said confirmation bias of meh matches having nothing to remember and even good matches being less memorable than the really bad ones.
Third of all, the unavoidable problem of matchmaking in ANY game, is that the number of good and extremely good players is fairly small, compared to the rest. Now, what happens when they look for a queue? Ideally, they'd get an even-skill match. Except... there's not enough players of said skill level actually on in the first place at the same time on the same region in the same ratio (1:4). So, what option does the game have? (A) Make queues take literal hours while it waits for people of even skill to eventually show up. Or, (B) match them with worse players they will undoubtedly beat, but make queues quicker.
Fourth of all, people tend to overrate how good their opponents are when they lose. Most people frankly, do not know how to play versus Nurse. The difference between someone who does and doesn't is very distinctly noticeable because of how they will play and respond and mindgame (or the lack thereof). What you might think is a "good" Nurse might just be an average or okay Nurse that you or your team doesn't actually know how to play against properly. Imagine matching a lobby of survivors against a Hag, but they've almost never ever faced her so they won't know what to do properly against her (dismantling her web from the start so she never ever gets the web set up in the first place). So, inevitably, the Hag will make her death web trap, and probably slaughter the survivors. The Hag wasn't amazing. It's just the survivors didn't play it correctly at all. It is the same for Nurse.
@Tatt3dWon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3054212#Comment_3054212
if thats the case im going to do the math now. Also if you knew how to get an average you would know that the less a killer is used it helps increase their average if they have good games. You still are proving my point that nurse got used more so you have no idea what your talking about. The blight was used around 33% less than the nurse shows right there why top tier players choose her.
Which is why Blight stomped almost every game he did appear. L + doesn't read + spreads misinformation. Playing less games doesn’t guarantee they do well. They could just do bad those few games. There were still enough games to get a meaningful sample. Please just stop. You are actively detracting from the conversation.
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@Tatt3dWon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3054200#Comment_3054200
Doing the math on it now and cant tell if they are using the k as a hook state or not but the fact that nurse gets used more than the blight already shows that the nurse is better. so you stop talking since you dont know how to do simple brain calculations. never met a nurse main throw out so much "information" they didnt even understand its really bad to just throw up posts you dont understand. The best part is when he said they had no restrictions and were the best players in the world and they still were getting curb stomped in points to the nurse. The restricted ones are much worse since nurse doesn't even need perks to be good.
Moving the goalposts (or shifting the goalposts) is a metaphor, derived from goal-based sports, that means to change the rule or criterion (goal) of a process or competition while it is still in progress, in such a way that the new goal offers one side an advantage or disadvantage.[1]Which is why the Nurse did worse in both hook states and overall kill rates than the Blight. You actively detract from the conversation by spewing blatant lies, just stop.
Also, you would realize every single 4K is a 12 hook stage kill if you bothered reading at all whatsoever, because you'd see there are 8 total 4Ks across all killers, and 8 total 12 hook stage matches (which can literally only be a 4K). And every single non-4K has the number of hook stages written.
Just stop. You are an active detriment to factual discussion.
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@Marigoria said:
I always love reading this kind of threads and seeing the same people who complained about survivor perks say "because they dont want to adapt/get better/whatever". Ironic.
Hypocrisy is the lesser bad between that and blatantly objectively wrong claims at least.
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@Tatt3dWon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3054165#Comment_3054165
Thats actually not true most times they let non s tier killers get played 2 times or even 3. They restrict all s tier to 1. You do also understand that in tournaments it goes by hooks right the kill dosent matter and she has the overall most hooks in every tournament learn how tournaments work lol. if she gets a 2k with 10 hooks thats better than a 4k with 4 hooks. Thats why the strat is proxy camp till 2nd stage then go find someone.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_the_goalposts
Stop talking. If you actually read the post, you'd realize the following:
Nurse hook stage average: 8.28
Blight hook state average: 9.55
Go learn what you're talking about before you post more blatant misinformation. It's a waste of everyone's time to have to sort through wrong drivel.
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@TeleportingTurkey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3054154#Comment_3054154
If you are a player with more than a few thousands of hours, you are in 1% of the DbD players. Of course learning Nurse would be easy for you, but even you won't be able to win with her reliably against survivor players of same competence.
People who demolish with Nurse on tournaments are people with more than 5-6 thousands of hours in this game, most of which they've spent playing Nurse, of course they make her look easy, but in reality that is not the case.
Just going to let you know, even in tournaments, on actually even maps (eg, Groaning Storehouse) for her, she averages to a 2K. You can check this by going over VODs. DBE (Dead by eSports) uploads the majority of the tournament VODs onto YouTube and the rest are usually on Twitch.
When all restrictions are removed, she averages to 1.92K. Example of big tournament without restrictions: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/297338/statistical-evaluation-of-an-interesting-tournament
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@Tatt3dWon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3054136#Comment_3054136
Show me your data i need the spread sheet if she only pulls off 2k's then why restrict her to being used once your spreading misinformation because you dont want your killer nerfed.
They restrict her to being played once so people play a variety of killers. Watching one single killer is not interesting lmao.
@Tatt3dWon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3054146#Comment_3054146
I do my research your just a nurse main and thats why your going on about this and sooner or later she will be nerfed and then you can just deal with it. End of discussion.
Clearly not, given you’re objectively wrong. Go do it again. But yes everyone that disagrees with you is clearly a Nurse main and it’s not that you are just wrong.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/297338/statistical-evaluation-of-an-interesting-tournament Big tournament where there were absolutely zero restrictions. Nurse averaged at 1.92 kills/match. Stop talking. Do your research before you spread blatant lies.
@Tatt3dWon said:
I personally think she's one of the easier killers to go against but she definitely holds tis game hostage. Have you even watched superalfs videos lol in high mmr 200 4k win streaks come on man i know your not that much of an idiot.
Wow it's almost like a semi-frequent competitive player using strong builds on a strong killer against average lobbies not as good as him (because there literally aren't enough players on the same level for MMR to make an even lobby consistently) will win most matches. It's almost like he's still lost that streak multiple times even in pubs and some matches he won barely through the skin of his teeth, because he went against actually challenging players. It's almost like he got absolutely destroyed by competitive teams before.
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@Tatt3dWon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3054128#Comment_3054128
They literally dont the devs know that she dosent even need perks the only reason they dont change her is because they go by some philosophy that kills equals skill and alot of people pick her up for a couple games and then quit her because shes "hard" to play shes not put 10 hours in her and you will be fine.
The cognitive dissonance is insane.
She’s so clearly overpowered, and yet she doesn’t perform well, even though devs can check data for high skill players. Uh huh. Please stop talking without doing your research, spreading misinformation hurts the discussion.
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@Tatt3dWon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3054115#Comment_3054115
That's not true there is a reason why she is the top used killer in every single tournament in dbd and they only let people use her once. Even against a god tier swf that has TENS of thousands of hours playing get mopped up by her in tournaments. If you watch tournament dbd you would understand why she needs to be worked on.
You do realize in tournaments with no restrictions, she has a negative kill rate right? In standard heavily survivor restricted tournaments, she averages to 2K on even maps. Stop talking if you don’t know what you’re talking about, misinformation hurts the discussion.
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@Tatt3dWon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3054112#Comment_3054112
Nurse dosent need perks to begin with and this is also why every one saw an increase of nurse on the ptb so no its not information you just proved my point. Nurse dosent even need perks to be top tier they just make it worse all she needs are add-ons the devs dont know ######### about their own game their lead game designer said it was like playing hockey lol you keep believing what you want but im pretty sure i can guess what killer you main.
It’s amazing you somehow managed to type an entire paragraph that responds to nothing I said. If Nurse was holding back balance, they would change Nurse or not release things amazing for her. Which, as can be obviously seen, no change has happened, and amazing perks keep getting released or buffed for her.
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@GentlemanFridge said:
The fact that the average player simply cannot best a good nurse.
Average players should be losing to good players lmao, why would the worse player win?
@Tatt3dWon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3054060#Comment_3054060
I mean its very true they have to design killer perks around the nurse and nerf them to make sure she doesn't become stronger than she already is. Not letting perks have their full potential because of her bottle necks it for the killers that aren't as strong. Her skill ceiling is pretty low now that mmr is a thing. You can do the my side your side thing all you want it doesn't mean you know what your talking about.
Except… they’ve literally done the exact opposite. They’ve buffed Retribution, No Way Out, Lethal Pursuer, Dead Man’s Switch, etc, all of which are amazing on her. And released Deadlock, Starstruck, Pain Resonance, Lethal Pursuer, No Way Out, Floods of Rage, Call of Brine, Plaything, etc, all of which are amazing on her.
Don’t spread misinformation, thanks. There has never ever been an explicit statement of proof from the devs of this.
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People act like they’re facing god survivors/god Nurses every time they face survivors/Nurse which is stupid and blatantly wrong. Most players, regardless of side, are not that good. The percentage of the playerbase that is extremely good is… extremely small. And the chance they’re on in the same region as you at the same time you’re queued for the opposite side but that there’s not enough high skill players on so they get matched with a worse player like you is… also small.
When you put an extremely hyper-good player(s) against people that are nowhere near that level, the match will be a stomp. It does not matter what build the survivor runs, or what build/killer the killer runs. They are just outright too far ahead of the other side. This is why extremely good survivor players escape almost every single game, and this is why extremely good killer players slaughter almost every single game.
When you put players of equal skill together, the match goes evenly on average. This is why even said extremely absurdly good survivor players/killer players will occasionally have super tough matches or get defeated even in random pub matches the few times an actually even skill lobby happens.
And then you have the people that automatically assume that if they lost, it must be because they’re either facing a god SWF/god killer or that it’s overpowered. While somehow automatically assuming by default they themselves did good. But the god SWF/god killer argument is outright stupid in the first place. If you are facing god-tier players and you are not playing ANYWHERE NEAR that level, YOU SHOULD NOT EVER BE WINNING WHATSOEVER. Why would you win? That makes absolutely zero sense. And it clearly isn’t overpowered either, given actual even skill matches go… evenly.
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@PatchNoir said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3053365#Comment_3053365
People dont seen to realize how much the lock "saving" consumes time as a killer, let suppose that it takes 4 seconds to get out a locked one.
Most maps has the shack so if the dredge goes 2 times to shack the killer will lose 8 seconds, and this goes on and on, macmillian has a lot of double lockers, house of pain has 4 near a gen in the below part and 2 above, the mothers house and temple of purgation has a jungle gym with at least 6 lockers...
It takes 3s to escape a locked locker, 2s if you're using Haddie's Calendar. I'm fine with the time it takes to escape a locked locker. I'm not fine with locker "sets" being treated as a single locker but being given two locks. The literal point is a locker can only be locked once. It's anti-skill too. There is no risk for the survivor whatsoever. No need to guess.
@dspaceman20 said:
Then there would be no point in locking a locker since he can just go into the unlocked one
If they guess wrong, no they couldn't. There is a minimum range on the teleport.
@ShinobuSK said:
Draga would be too strong otherwise, saving one of the locks on double lockers for later use is some weird balance mechanic thet come up with. At least it seems that way
Except you are only meant to be able to lock a single locker once. But sets are considered a single locker, but given multiple locks.
@DY86 said:
I mean, if they didn’t prioritize that locker then there would be no real advantage to using the lock mechanic, since its one use only for each individual locker
Except... sets are counted as an individual locker but given two locks. By your own standard, this is bad design.
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It shouldn't have the priority. If people want to have the benefit of saving the lock, they should have to guess which one the Dredge will go to. If the Dredge guesses the same one the survivor did, the adjacent one is too close to teleport to (because of the minimum range on the teleport targeting). If they don't want to risk that, they should have to use up both locks.
Also when neither are locked and no one is inside/interacting, it still picks a random one which is bad and punishing design. Not being able to pick where you go makes zero sense, and even the slight difference of distance from a certain desired target destination point can cause a difference of whether or not you can reach them before they reach something to avoid the hit.
Being able to lock just a single locker of a set defeats the point of the "Each locker can only be locked once" when they're both treated as a single locker but you get two locks for what is treated as said single locker.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3052830#Comment_3052830
"I don't know why Nurse got a buff on her range add ons where it increases her speed of blinking."
I know the answer to your inquiry. When you collect poor data you get a terrible picture from which to draw conclusions. For pretty much Forever the devs have gathered the wrong data. How do I know this? Because I've talked to their "stat guy". I asked them three questions around mid 2018 and from those answers determined the team doesn't have a clue about what they should be looking at.
What type of data should they be collecting? They should look to answer these questions:
1) How long is the killer objective vs the survivor objective? Does this ratio change with SWF? (yes it does tremendously)
2) When do hooks happen? When do generators get completed? Are too many generators getting completed too early for the killer to have fun? Is that possibly why so many killers are camping/tunneling/slugging?
3) What is the frequency of pallet use? How does this change with higher/lower levels of play? What makes for a "fair" pallet?
4) How does map size influence generator completion?
There has never been a data collection of any note where they look at real players playing real games (DBD office members dont count - because they dont play the game at a competent level). They don't look at when hooks happen compared to when generators get completed. Kills is the only metric that matter and has been - forever.
When you look at kills it becomes painfully clear the Nurse is the weakest character - therefore she needed buffs. That's a joke right? No sadly that was the thinking process of the developers when last they adjusted nurse. They gave her incredibly powerful addons that let you blink more distance for less charge time. It will be impossible to have a "fair game" against nurse as long as these addons exist.
We asked if her best two addons were bugged and the devs responded : No we wanted her addons to be like that. Unfortunately that just paints a worse picture.
The biggest problem with nurse is that she is so difficult to use that most people don't even try.
Source: Trust me bro
@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/333577/two-changes-i-want-for-nurse
Nurse has a number of balance problems. She is slightly overpowered when you use a perk like Starstruck and combine that with her insane movement speed. I don't see a problem with making it so you can't use her power with Starstruck. Her blink shouldn't be a "special" attack though because she is literally built to be impossible to chase with "normally".
Change 1:
Many of her addons need to be removed (anything that deals with more distance for a blink or faster blink recovery). In a more fair world we would see the most overpowered and crazy addons on the weakest killers. If nurse's current best addons were turned into a trapper addon we would get something like this : Loose pan (green adddon) - Attempting to disarm a trap without holding an item will trap the survivor as soon as they finish or stop the interaction. Disarming a trap with an item makes the item fall to the floor and causes the trap to be reset. The item can be picked up when the trap is disarmed.
Change 2:
All killers need to have a "damage cooldown effect". In short if a huntress throws a hatchet she gets a 3 second cooldown as if she had use a M1 attack. Perks like STBFL would reduce the animation cooldown. For nurse this means she would wipe her blade and then have fatigue. This would require her to blink for distance to continue a chase. It would make perks like lightweight and Iron Will very strong against her.
Change 3:
Nurse loses the ability to cancel a blink by looking at the floor. If she is on ground level and tries to blink down she will charge in a straight line. This will force a nurse to blink at the correct distance or "pay the price". It will remove her ability to hold the survivor with a "catch 22" tactic. In short by holding a long blink if you run she catches you. If you stop short she cancels the blink and catches you.
This would change the situation so that a survivor has more counterplay. They can read into how long she is charging and play accordingly. Since her blinks will always be uniform there is only a question of how long will she charge. This would make Nurse miss slightly more often than she does currently. It would also raise her skillcap slightly - but I don't see a problem since she is already so much better than all the other killers.
Range/three blink add-ons are dumb and need reworks. Everything else is a non-issue.
The second change, lmao no. Learn to counter the ability itself.
Third change, yeah no. That's literally removing mindgaming from the equation. Each side mindgaming and baiting the other is literally part of that. It is not the catch-22 you misrepresent it as. That is just outright god-awful horrible design.
Nurse already has counterplay.
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@CookieBaws said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3052938#Comment_3052938
I mean other perks can recharge and you are good, but Overcome needs endurance or be healthy on top of that.
Lithe needs a window, Balanced needs a drop, Smash Hit needs a pallet, etc. It ain’t special.
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@CookieBaws said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3052899#Comment_3052899
it's makes the perk kinda useless if you consider others.
??? No, that’s literally the point of Exhausted on hit effects. That’s what a counter is.
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Legion doesn’t need nerfs.
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Making excuses for ragequitting is pathetic.
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Dredge is in a good spot other than bugs and not enough lockers on some maps.
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You have this really funny idea there’s literally ever a valid in-game excuse to DC except cheaters/game-breaking bugs (like being permanently stuck in a hill). DCing is pathetic.
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@CookieBaws said:
Overcome doesn't work with exhaustion on hit attacks.
I get why, but this perk already asking to be healthy or be under endurance. This is kinda overkill.
That’s clearly intended.
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Well well well, if it ain’t the consequences of your own actions. 🤡
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3052445#Comment_3052445
The addon makes her 105 speed. The suggestion said 110 speed
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3052447#Comment_3052447
Killer with Power chained into Expose M1 is oppressive in chase (as old DeathSlinger with any Expose perk for example. But Im not saying they're good for 1v4 aspect).
Killer with speed is considered great. Blight for example, only Legion that their speed doesnt down
And there are Killer with both speed + Power chained into Expose M1. Only Spirit & Nurse are blessed with both.
- Kills perk diversity = Always bad
- Has a lot less direct mobility than Blight. Nurse crosses large distances at the same average time taken a 115% does by walking, and has way less opportunities to reposition in chase that also require a delay to charge up unlike Blight’s near-immediate back to back 5 rushes.
- Would be inconsistent with design. Nurse cannot attack with her power. She moves, stops, and attacks. Blight moves and attacks during the move with the power.
- Not a balance issue in the first place. People misattribute mismatched skill matchups as a balance issue. Survivors of the same skill level as the Nurse will do fine regardless, outside of range/3 blinks.
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Range/3 blinks is undeniably busted, but there’s people that unironically think base/recharge is uncounterable despite all the evidence literally showing the opposite, which is why this kind of spam thread happens in the first place, like the nonstop Nurse threads recently.
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@Canas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3052753#Comment_3052753
Then how about exhausting her if she decides to "noclip"? It would immediately end her chain of blinks and still get rid of these busted hits through walls. This is without a doubt the most frustrating part about this killer, her ability to flatout ignore/bypass map structures.
"why not make her literally useless on indoor maps and tremendously worse on most tiles"
Learn to mindgame instead of complaining.
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@Canas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3052740#Comment_3052740
And why should she be able to dominate on all maps? Take the chainsaw killers for instance, they're differently restricted by indoor maps as well. Killers are bound to have maps which they suck or perform well on, what's so bad about that?
It’s almost like killers or survivors should not be automatically favored or screwed off completely RNG factors that are irrelevant to player skill. That is called bad design lmao.
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I’m gonna blow your mind: Your subjective standard of you and others considering Legion as not fun does not trump the also subjective standard of others that find it fun. Fun fact, when there are no balance or design problems, there is no reason to change it when that screws over the players that enjoy it. Your personal unfun is not relevant to balance.
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@Canas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3052734#Comment_3052734
The difference between her and Blight would be that the former could freely jump to a survivor while the latter needs to set up a bounce patch to actually get to the survivor. Very different playstyles.
You misspelled "garbage in indoor maps and tremendously worse against the absolute majority of tiles in the game"
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@dspaceman20 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3052701#Comment_3052701
A new meta incoming.
But you could just make it a one time use or maybe a cooldown.
One time use does not make something fundamentally bad design suddenly okay.
@dspaceman20 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3052706#Comment_3052706
It's nearly useless with the hemorrhage buff and barely anyone uses it. It's too underwhelming.
It's still a good perk that saves 8s per unhook. Hemorrhage is literally meant to counter perks like this. Not the other way around.
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This literally defeats the point of Nurse. Play Blight/Spirit at that point. Also this presupposes Nurse is unbalanced in the first place.
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It is on the survivors to break the 3-gen. It does not matter how suicidal it is, the survivors are required to attempt to do the generators. Getting pushed off is fine, but you cannot avoid doing them entirely. The killer is not obligated to follow an obvious bait away from the setup. It is the result of the survivors' failure to prevent the 3-gen/the killer's success in setting it up.
Also, either way, regardless, a 3-gen is unwinnable for the killer if survivors take turns chipping at different gens simultaneously. When the killer comes for them, run away so they can’t afford to chase. And during that, the others progress the other gens. And as such, the war of attrition will inevitably go to the survivors.
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Busted synergy. Resurgence doesn’t need a buff.
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Survivors getting 3-genned is their fault. Why would they be rewarded for that? Hiding and not doing the gens is against rules and reportable.
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@Alen_Starkly said:
The Nurse definitely needs nerfs or even a rework.BHVR don't just look at the stats and think "oh, the average number of kills is this, she's fine". NO she ISN'T. There is nothing you can do against good Nurses. Any juke I try does nothing. Breaking the line of sight does nothing either. Now add do that Starstruck, Infectious Fright and range addons (or 1 range and other blink recharge). She gets a fast, easy 4K.... or decides to slug the whole team for 4 minutes 'cause that gets the player playing her off.
Her being hard to pick up for new players (although that's debatable) should not justify ignoring how good Nurse players are too strong. Recently I managed to pallet stun a Nurse mid-blink, and yet she caught up to me within a few seconds! Because she had a blink recharge addon. And also because you removed the fatigue on stuns. ######### am I supposed to do??
I also know a few streamers who are just fed up with going against Nurses, 'cause it's always the same sh*t. Starstruck, BBQ, Pain Res, Infectious Fright, Deadman's Switch, range and blink recharge addons.
Have you considered you are just not that good at mindgaming/facing Nurses? I don't know why the baseline assumption is you are doing good at it. Because if you actually look at good players facing good Nurses, they do just fine.
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Nurse is fine. Recharge add-ons are fine. Range/three blinks is not fine and should be fully changed.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3050063#Comment_3050063
Calling people morons now because they have different opinions ok.
I wasnt trying to silence anyone, you got offended that I wanted a transgender man character
Still playing the victim I see. I would absolutely be thrilled to have trans men/women and non-binary characters in DBD. Also, ######### truscum. They are literal trans transphobes. You do not need dysphoria to be trans.