SurgDexil
SurgDexil
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@basicpitch said:
I found the chainsaw brothers impossible to learn. Hag was much easier. I think in some cases its a combination of what you're capable of and what the game design is.
Yeah, agreed. Nothing is set and stoned here after all.
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Perfect
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@Trikset said:
It tells you on the Killer selection screen
Yet I added Freddy in one of the easier categories and he's labeled hard.
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@Weederick said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/422575#Comment_422575
Yeah but that sounds pretty strong, doesnt it?
Only needing one followup hit to down survivors sounds almost like a noed killer. to compare it to plague: The most efficient play as survivor is to not heal. Which turns legions into a 115% permanoed killer. Who can stall a bit. Unless they heal, then he stalls tremendously.
Similar to plague who is a 115% permanoed killer. Unless they cleanse, then she becomes a toptier killer for a while.
Both are basically 115% permanoed killers. Unless survivors do suboptimal plays, then legion turns into a stalling machine and plague into a chasing machine. Both are pretty toptier if it happens imo. At worst, you have a 115% permanoed killer. Still pretty good
Meh, maybe. But I'm not sure that's a good thing. After all is not a real NOED. While I don't think his power triggers MOM (Metal of Man), Adrenaline would still be a problem for him. But that is just the usual gen rush.
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@Weederick said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/422575#Comment_422575
Yeah but that sounds pretty strong, doesnt it?
Only needing one followup hit to down survivors sounds almost like a noed killer. to compare it to plague: The most efficient play as survivor is to not heal. Which turns legions into a 115% permanoed killer. Who can stall a bit. Unless they heal, then he stalls tremendously.
Similar to plague who is a 115% permanoed killer. Unless they cleanse, then she becomes a toptier killer for a while.
Both are basically 115% permanoed killers. Unless survivors do suboptimal plays, then legion turns into a stalling machine and plague into a chasing machine. Both are pretty toptier if it happens imo. At worst, you have a 115% permanoed killer. Still pretty good
Eh, maybe. While the stalling part isn't all that great, because again 4v1.
But maybe everything else will be decent, but I'm not 100% sure of that.
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@Weederick said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/422555#Comment_422555
It does. He still has the uncounterable first hit. He will always start a chase with you beeing deep wounded. So legion only has to earn 1 hit. Which is only half of other M1 killers who have to earn 2 hits.
Then add his strong stalling potential and you have all the time to finish chases without gens popping. I find that very strong on pig already and legion is gonna do it better.
Yet Pig is Mid Tier. Legion, while this sounds good, a confirm hit (kinda like Plague) unlike Plague where she has lethal vomit in the case a survivor is good at looping, Legion really only has that one confirm hit going for him. Which at glance isn't bad, you could use cooldown add ons to make it like a one two combo like the Hatched, regular attack Huntress.
That requires add ons, while Huntress can do that on default.
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@N1gHtM4Re203 said:
When your in the red ranks your going to regret that
This is starting the game, not red ranks. We all know nurse, Billy, Spirit (and so on) are the best for red ranks.
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@basicpitch said:
Maybe its me. But the first killer I've gotten past 8 for anything other than dailies is Hag. I'm not saying I'm godly or even great, but I absolutely love playing her. I watched a great youtube by SpaceCoconut (shoutout!) and off I went.
For me, the other killers are just dailies or when I'm bored and feel like lurking in the basement for RP >_> (Don't judge me)
Hey me too. Love SpaceCoconut. He really brings out the Hag in me.
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@Weederick said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/422530#Comment_422530
I called out billy, nurse, huntress and spirit to be toptier at release when everyone thought they were weak. I called legion trash and got a ton of lols and i should wait until people discover his potential. Turned out he is just trash.
Now he becomes a 115% killer with stalling potential who ignores the healthy state. Want to heal? Stall for 1 minute. Dont want to heal? Permanoed. Without the slow movement speed, he is a serious killer.
While it sounds good, remember the infinite question. "Does his power help with the Chase?"
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@dezzmont said:
It isn't a nerf, being a M1 killer with a legitimately free hit and stall potential is basically what Pig and M&A Myers are. If you play a lot of trapper/Pig, you know that the difference between being injured and uninjured vs a M1 killer is super significant.
It does, however, turn them into a M1+ killer, which I think is more frustrating. They probably will actually be overall better, but will be generic as hell because the devs can't find a balance point for a steroid free hit as strong as the legion, and people obviously *want* to use their super awesome legion leapy stabs to down but no longer can.
Also, it is important to remember that if they literally removed Legion's power entirely and just gave them base movespeed, if legion literally did not have a power, they would be stronger than Freddy. Until Freddy gets a rework so that he isn't literally pure downside he will always be the worst killer.
You know that infinite question we killer mains ask if the killer is good or not? We ask the question "Does his power help with the chase?"
If is a yes then they end up being top tier, if is a form of yes, then they become mid tier, if is a no then they become bottom tier.
This "Rework" will make his power relatively useless. Is not the same. Sure the old legion was frustrating to go against, but not impossible. But this rework is going too far.
But then again, we won't 100% know until it's lie, but I'm not getting my hopes up.
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Sure he will (sarcasm)
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@MegMain98 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/422336#Comment_422336
Hag is nowhere near as hard to learn as Nurse or Spirit.
Not saying Hag doesn’t have a learning curve but I’ve only played Hag for about two or three hours and I’m pretty decent at her. She doesn’t take long to learn. You just have to know where to trap and herd survivors into your traps.
Spirit on the other hand takes quite a bit of prediction and has a large learning curve but a very high ceiling of improvement. It didn’t take me incredibly long to learn how to play her though.
Nurse on the other hand takes muscle memory. I haven’t grasped how to play her, but I do play on console though :/
Huntress is also up there when it comes to skill to play. I’ll even argue that she is harder to learn than Spirit is.
Um, hello, in the literal post I said that Spirit and Nurse are literally the hardest to learn.
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@Boss said:
Wraith is one of the easiest to get into, but his awesome buffs to his Add-ons allow for a lot of tactics, some of them difficult.
Which is why I put him a bit above, though even I debated in putting him lower.
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@GrootDude said:
Freddy is hard to master.
Not on low ranks. Sure on higher ranks you rely more on mindgames, but we're talking about low ranks here. Not high ranks.
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@Croquedead said:
The hardest killers are 100% Hag and Huntress.
In terms of learning curve it’s Hag.
In terms of consistency it’s Huntress.
They are hard, but Nurse and Spirit are harder.
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@Weederick said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/422149#Comment_422149
But then your title and your intentions are two opposites. Your title asks for skillceiling, while now you are asking for skillfloor. You cant mix up both and if you ask for skillfloor, Doctor, Wraith and Freddy are the universal noob stompers.
You should change the title for easy killers to start, not for easy killers to master.
The title was an odd mistake on my part. I meant which killers are easier to used at the start of the game, and are easy to simply use on those games that will help you latter become better at killer or simply get the bloodpoint grind easier. Which is why Leatherface is number one on this spot. Easy to use killer, plus has BBQ. What else could you need?
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@Weederick said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/422004#Comment_422004
Huntress does indeed throw her hatchets at point blank. Its her infamous M2-M1 combo. Hitting melee hatchets and backrevs takes skill. Compared to all the other killers in dbd, those are one of the few things that need skill and can be messed up.
Even a backrev is much harder to master than a wraith, pig, myers etc. And that is just the starting point of billys way to mastery. On higher ranks, good billys dont get juked, they get outmaneuvered. They dont give billy an opportunity to chainsaw by standing close to pallets and windows. Those jukes are predictable, a seasoned billy will hit most backrevs. His mastery includes much more, like playing pallets, zoning, fakereving, bodyblocking etc. Up to the pinacle which is cutting loops by flicking around corners and hitting the tip of an unexpecting survivor.
What i've read so far in my 3 years of dbd, that beginners can not handle the chainsaw and usually dont play him because of that. The backrev is hard to master already, but thats still comparatively easy to his true potential. Its a oneshot bound to twice the speed, almost uncontrollable in the first second and then easily dodged after. The potential is gigantic. Thus he is hard to master, which is your title of the thread.
You're missing the point. I'm not looking at Billy applying all of the various skills you can add on him, you can do all of that, but you're missing the point. I'm looking him at the hands of new killer players.
If newer players can't handle his chainsaw doesn't mean that others can't handle it. It depends on the player. But in general, Billy is easy to play. At least when I first starting playing Billy. I didn't even know how to chainsaw dash. Took me a tutorial to get an idea of it.
But again, I'm not looking at Billy at the hands of Rank 1. I'm looking at him at the hands of rank 20 killers. So change your mentality for a second and just think differently for a moment.
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@Weederick said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/421799#Comment_421799
Right, he would be the easiest to master if not for aiming.
Just like Huntress, also the easiest killer if you dont count aiming.
Well the difference between the two is that Huntress, you kinda relly on her hatchet throws to damage survivors. You don't throw them at point blank (unless insta down hatches).
Billy on the other hand, you can go up and chainsaw them at point blank and you wouldn't be wrong to do it. Heck I do it for easier chainsaw downs. Is much easier than manouvering with the drift add ons and drifting just so the survivors move the other way. On the higher ranks you're less likely to get chainsaws because people would know how to juke it.
I'm looking at these killers as if I was starting with them. In other words rank 20 and stuff like that. Where survivors don't know how to juke, and stuff. A plaffe where beginners start their grind and journey.
Looking at it that way, you usually use Billy's chainsaw at point blank for easier downs. Something still used in the higher ranks. After all, isn't it easier to down a survivor with the chainsaw at closer range? Sure they'll juke, but at that point even the killer is experienced.
Billy is an easy killer, but does have a high ceiling to improve at.
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@Chi said:
8. Pig/Amanda
Now at glance, Pig is an M1 killer. Pig a bit deeper though and she's a mindgame/stealth killer with a power to slow the game down. So with Pig, you need to know a bit of mindgames. While playing her is simple enough, understanding her power and maximizing it to is great potential, needs a bit more understanding.
I really hope you are referring to the dash when you say mind games.
I do, I just forgot to say dash, my mistake.
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@drunky26 said:
Should've made a "mentally disabled" section and put Legion in it.
No
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@Weederick said:
I always love seeing billy at the bottom of the skill list. Surprised he isnt easier than leatherface. Travel to gen, M1 or sprint away. Mastered ;D
He isn't the easiest because manuvering and aiming his chainsaw is a thing
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@Divinitye9 said:
Many killers are far more complex then what you have listed. Yes, Trapper is very easy to start with, but to truly master and understand him you need to know good trap placement, have superior map knowledge, and an understanding of survivor behavior. He behaves in a Hag manner, just with more chasing and less teleporting.
Wraith uncloaks are the absolute key to mastery with him. Just uncloaking in front of a survivor and going derp mode is unwise. Uncloaking and charging from odd angles, from behind walls, and blocking safe pathways is a must. His Addons also greatly change how he behaves.
Addons are also pivotal for killers like the Doctor, as it literally changes his entire play style and tracking system.
I don’t disagree with everything you say at all, as you sum it up fairly well, but many killers have little tricks and nuances that are far more difficult to master.
I was looking at this as a new killer player. Keep that in mind. This isn't considering add ons, since add ons do change gamestyle, especially Myers.
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@Yamaoka said:
The thread seems to be misleading. The title is about mastering a killer which includes any possible trick you can do with said killer to beat survivors but instead you talk about wether it's easy to play particular killers. That's a major difference or not. Playing isn't mastering.
Sure you can play Leatherface immediately and do ok BUT mastering him contains going through narrow places (i.e. through multiple doors [lery's], jungle gym openings, any narrow map structure) while using the chainsaw without getting stunned. Most new (and even veteran players) will bump into walls when things go quickly unless they've spent considerable time practicing Leatherface.
I even use Leatherface's chainsaw to mindgame bad pallets and certain map structures to get an instadown using the last few swings of his chainsaw as they're the fastest in movement speed which is something you need to learn before you can effectively use Leatherface.
And Hillbilly? Anybody can play him but only very few have mastered him. Mastering him contains chainsaw flicking to break loops. Most Hillbilly players use the chainsaw at point blank range to get a cheap instadown with no skills. Skilled Hillbilly players who actually mastered him use his ability to curve around any map structure turning Billy into an instadown-antilooper. Chainsaw flicking not only takes serious skills but also anticipation as you have to be aware of typical survivor movement. Sometimes I curve into certain ways because I know survivors tend to walk into path "A" or stay at pallet "B".
I will upload video samples for the described Leatherface and Hillbilly scenarios in about 30 mins so people understand what I mean.
I get what you mean, but I'm talking about this as a new player standpoint. Sure they are nits and points you can do to improve on those killers. I'm talking about how difficult a killer can be if you were to pick him up starting the game. Is not me necessarily saying how you can Master a killer or anyting. Leave that to the experts. No, I'm picking killers which if you pock them up starting the hame, how good can you perform? That's the general question.
Look at this as a new killer main starting to play the game.
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@KillermainBTWm8 said:
Nea is the easiest to master why isn't she on the list?!
Because we're acknowledging real killers, not meme killers.
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Anytime.
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@SnakeSound222 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/420983#Comment_420983
So basically make this game even more of an M1 simulator? Holding down M1 for 80 seconds is already boring enough. Have you even played Survivor at all?
He's just one of those pure killer mains threw and threw. Let him be.
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@ColgateAdvancedWhite said:
Remove the stacking and increase the baseline mend time to 60 seconds. 80 and 100 for the blades, stacking to 120 if both are used.
I honestly do believe the add ons should stack, but the bug should just dissapear.
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@twistedmonkey said:
To ban is a bit of a kick in the teeth tbh.
The bug needs fixed asap but they shouldn't remove someone's ability to play due to a mistake they made, how do they tell the difference between those who do it intentionally and those who don't?
Quick solution is to just disable the add-on mix, simple and effective and also put in game text saying why.
Agreed
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The only perk I disagree on buffing would be Hope. Due to that being far too problamatic for killers. Sure they'll still be faster, but that speed has now close. You'll be surprised how a bit of speed can impact the game.
Normal survivor running speed is 100
Normal Killers are 115.
Special killers are 110.
Adding a permanent hope will make survivors normal running speed 107. That is only slightly slower than the special killers like Hag, Huntress, Legion, and so on.
Then the difference between the normal killers would be 8 point of speed. Which kinda turns them into the special killers in a way.
Nurse 96 (but she uses her powers to catch up to survivors, so Hope won't matter to her.)
However every other killer would make their lives near impossible to catch up to a survivor. Unless they're specifically design to be great at the chase, like Huntress (who ususally just hits you with Hatches anyways).
I feel like hope if given this kind of buff would make the killers lives already harder than what it already is. (But I guess it depends on the match sometimes).
Hope as it stands has always been more of a soft counter when NOED was at is strongest. (Ah the dark times of DBD.) Now in days, NOED is more in a balanced state. But Hope, well Hope is still there, while is not as relevant as Adrenaline, Hope has been now more of a soft speedboost for the newer survivors. While I never personally used it as a Survivor, hope is still more of a Meh perk now. Is nice for when you neee to loop the killer in the endgame, but giving a permanent speedbuff would make it a little too overpowered.
Now you'll probably say (oh but is End Game. Gates are usually powered and open by then. This is just to escape faster.) Hold your horses because I'm not done yet. You see on Endgame, unless the Killer has an End game Build (which I find rare, but sometimes you see people running Blood Warden from time to time) Killers either do what they can to secure the kill by camping means, or they do their hardest to snowball the gate before it opens. But the snowball part isn't happening against swf.
Now where was I again? Oh yeah Hope. Hope would be a bit too strong if given this buff. Hope, while not the most annoying perk in the game, if given this buff I can see a lot of killers complaining about it. Because a permanent hope is just too strong. Sure is still an End Game Perk, but let's not repeat the dark times of DBD.
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Two
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@ZeusDaddyJuice said:
Adding a 2v8 mode would be bad, with all due respect of course. But with the current state of the game and how long it already takes to find a game a 2v8 would make the loading times worse for players choosing to opt out of 2v8 (by playing just the normal 1v4) On top of the loading times for base game the loading times for 2v8 would be terrible due to a separation and requiring double the players to start.
While I understand your concern about the state of the game. A lot of the long wait times is due to players leaving. Be it because of various of imbalancing and so on. However, we know how long devs will take for them to decide to fix these issues. So maybe instead of trying to fix the problem (which I do hope they do), they can instead attract the veteran players back with the 2v8, and give people a reason to continue to play the game.
While I still greatly understand the problem, is also on us to strengthen the community. We can't let the devs try and fix everything. Since as we see they did a "Pretty good job so far." ;)
This is less to fix issues, and more to keep the game relevant than in the dying state that is becoming. We need a reason for people to continue to play the game, and we all know Mr. Pretty Good Job So Far, isn't doing much right now. With all due respect I have for him.
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I gave up on playing Nurse tbh.
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@doitagain_ said:
Yeah the swf matchmaking on PS4 is awful. A lot of my friends hardly play anymore because of this. We were all really excited when the new matchmaking system rolled out but then it was removed so suddenly. At this point I’m starting to lose hope on this game.
PS4 killers (like me) no longer play due to swf and other issues.
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That's because killers on PS4 (like me) are quitting DBD. We refuse to play until they do something about this swf bullshit and genpumping rush.
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He doesn't often see the killer side of things. Sure on one hand he can't buff or rework killers too hard for the sake of random survivors, because going against random survivors is often much easier than a swf group.
But on the other hand it leaves swf having way too mucn control (the good swf, not the overly altruistic ones.) Plus even just one survivor who's really good at kiting and annoying the killer can just win the game for the other 3 average/noob survivors. If they know what they're doing.
While often time if is just 1 survivor who's giving the killer trouble, you as a killer could always just end that chase and start another one with a different one, often times is not that easy.
When facing other survivors of the same skill level, is really hard to win. The only real killer that could win consistantly against the best swf group is The Nurse, and even then is hard sometimes. Plus not everyone is good with Nurse, and on Console, Nurse is even harder to play as. (I know because I'm a Console player.) So often times, you use other killers that are still good (Like Hillbilly, Huntress, Spirit, and Legion if you're smart with him.) but again, often times you don't even have time.
Gens get pumped out so fast that is crazy, and even when you use Hex Ruin to "slow the game down just a little bit" (Monto meme), the gens still get done fast. Often times, the people I face are either tapping the gens with hex ruin, great with skill checks, or destroy Hex Ruin on the first 30 seconds of the match.
There is really often no winning as killer. Even when you win a game, is always super stressful. I often times don't even have fun playing killer anymore. Is just so stressful these days, and they still blame us for not being good. No, we are good, but the game isn't fully balanced.
They are still so many different problems, and while I'm not going to say every single problem in the game. I will say that the game is still on the side of survivors. The devs are far too afraid to give killers buffs to make them strong enough to fight back.
Sure I understand not to overdo buffs. Like the dark times of DBD, where NOED was infinitely powerful, and when Unrelenting and STBFL was a Godly combo. I understand not overdoing it, there should still be something to give killers just that small edge against survivors, just to make it fair. Just a small edge.
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I remember a game where we farmed with the killer because 4 bps. I recorded the match too. So there is hope.
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People please stop saying noed/DS is a crutch. Noed punishes survivors for not cleansing totems and DS punishes killers who tunnel.
It doesn't matter if it is a clutch or not. Just ignore survivors for saying that. In the end, you're punishing them for gen rushing and not clensing tolems. Just like I am punishing them with NOED and Bloodwarden Combo.
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@Carpemortum said:
You can genrush and loop as 4 randoms.
What's your point?
The point to play is to do your best and learn how to improve.
Not a hard concept especially since 4 man SWF is what, less than 10% of games?
Killers should at least be aware that is a r man swf, so they can dodge them and move on. Like a lable.
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The bad word is Genless game. Because playing against swf is like having no gens to protect for how fast they get done.
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Before I get into the downward trend, and the reasons for it from my experience of talking to other players.
Screw survivors.
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So here's the endgame. 2 Survivors are sacrificed and the 3rd survivor goes down for the first time in the match. Infectious fright goes off and I chase the 4th.
Hey SpaceCoconut. Love your videos btw, and yeah I strongly agree. There isn't really any system that punishes people for disconnecting. Even if dbd was to implement this salt mine concept you said in your last video. It wouldn't exactly stop them if they were a swf.
Probably, or at least my personal way they could fix this is if they add a band timer. Let's put a scenario, let's say I disconnect as either a killer or a survivor. Boom 8h where I can't play the game. However this time stacks up. So everytime they disconnect, they get a penalty of another 8 hours, and another. This will greatly encourage both killers and survivors from not disconnecting. Both from the killer getting salt from 4 man swf, and from this hatch standoff.
Because I'm sure we can all agree (or at least those who actually play a competetive killer) can agree that the hatch is just stupid. Beyond stupid, and pretty much the worst thing to be added in the game.
Now this system could cause problems for those who simply lost connection, because I'm sure most of us don't have 5 star internet connections, this is the best system I can think of at the moment.