SkeletalElite
SkeletalElite
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@anarchy753 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/888396#Comment_888396
Unfortunately the meta is "as many free hits as possible" which means in order to shuffle the meta at all, you can't just ADD perks, but the strong extra hits need to be less appealing.
It's the same on the killer side, you want less ruin? The state of gen speed needs to be addressed OR there needs to be an actually effective early game stalling perk that can compete with ruin without stacking with it.
No the problem is that the other perks suck. Like just look at Any Means Necessary. Wow, you can pickup a pallet assuming the killer doesn't kick it immediately and it's on a whole two minute cooldown, what a big effect on the game, absolutely game changing! /s
It's just worthless. The same can be said for most of the other perks.
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Probably not gonna happen. We're gonna go another 3 months hoping the next DLC releases a character that has a perk that is actually worth running in a meta build and then we're gonna be disappointed again because the devs are so afraid of releasing a perk that is too strong that they only release situational, unreliable, or ineffective perks and as a result the meta has consisted of the same 6 or so perks for literally years.
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If people are working through your ruin that's actually a bad thing for you. If you work through ruin you're not wasing loads of time looking for the totem.
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@Resurrect said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/881386#Comment_881386
"Stealth isn't counter play"
- I disagree
"Spine Chill is slightly effective"
- It's 100% effective if you walk away
These aren't hard counters of course. What's funny is your approach to counter play . .
- If it doesn't 100% guarantee escape from a chase or prolonging a chase you don't consider it counter play
My response to the nurse nerfs and complaints are along the same lines as with spirit.
This had many responses and up votes from killers and survivors who understood how to play and how to play against the old nurse . .
""
Real Talk . . .
Nurse was a strong killer.
I ranked Nurse and Hillbilly equals at their base. Nurse and her range add-on's were what made her S tier for me.
I also enjoyed playing against the old nurse.
The very reason many/most survivors complained
- she cant be looped like every other killer
- our usual shenanigans won't work against her
Are the very reasons I loved playing against the nurse
- I suck at looping, she can't be looped anyway
- nurse needing to plan ahead of the survivor made her fun to outplay/mind game
That being said even I had a terrible time working over a nurse with her range add-on's.
Conclusion
Nurses base kit was 100% fine. Her range add-on's and for those who really couldn't outplay a nurse her extra blinks needed a rework.
Killers might enjoy a variety of play . . the point of having different killers.
Survivors don't want variety of play . . they want to be able to pull the same stunts on 100% of the killers.
""
I decided to learn these killers to the best of my ability. By doing so knew how best to play against them as survivor. I can at least admit the parts of the killers that were/are OP. Anyone who complains simply because they can't treat a killer as all others SHOULD consider learning the killer to become better against them.
The problem isn't that the same thing doesn't work against 90% of other killer doesn't work on her. It's that that literally the only things the game gives you to defend yourself against killers doesn't work on her. There might be some merit to the argument that survivors just want the same thing from every killer, but the problem is the game doesn't give anything else to be desired. There are no other mechanics.
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@Resurrect said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/881347#Comment_881347
As you still refuse to address any counter play I offered in any of my responses.
I gave counter play options. You either left them out of your retort to my response or claimed that wasn't considered counter play.
I have nothing more to add to your OP. I was only responding to those who responded to my First post on this thread.
I didn't leave them out. Stealth isn't counterplay. Saying that stealth is counterplay is the worst possible argument you could have. It would be like if they added a really overpowered gun to a first person shooter and you argued that the counterplay is to just not get shot. Stealth is something you have only a very small amount of control over as a survivor.
Spine chill is slightly effective against spirit but like I said before. DH, UB, DS, Adren is still more reliable. Even if my suggestions were implemented I still think she'd be a very strong killer since she's still able to just phase on top of survivors with 176% move speed.
Also since you're talking about nurse I think before the nerf an optimal nurse, even without addons was lacking counterplay (but not feedback which is one of spirit's problems,) I think the new nurse is fine as she is. Still effective in the hands of a good player and especially so with the right addons, but not quite the 0-2 gen done 4k monster with no addons it used to be. Nurse's are a lot rare now though because good nurse's are a very small percetage of players and most the ones before were only average and being carried by the OP addons.
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@Resurrect said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/881303#Comment_881303
I was merely pointing out that stealth is an option. As it is for every killer, but it is NEVER considered. Survivors want to be able to see, loop and control every aspect of the game the same way.
In that very post you quoted I said . .
"Not saying Spirit can't be a huge challenge during a chase."
It is undeniable, any killer that survivors cannot handle exactly as the rest of the killers are hated and called OP because they don't want to adapt and play differently.
I love(d) playing against . .
- old nurse, her range add-on's sucked to play against
- current spirit, her beads suck to play against
It gives variety to the game. It's like killers complaining about certain survivor perks/items. Sometimes certain perks or items suck to go against, but it gives variety.
When . . .
A killer can
- sacrifice a survivor by starring at them, they need a nerf
A survivor can
- escape by starring at a door, they need a nerf
You still haven't refuted anything in the original post where I explained why there is no counterplay.
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@Resurrect said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/877999#Comment_877999
Survivors can indeed . .
- detect spirit through certain perks
- avoid spirit through stealth
Spirit can indeed . .
- detect survivors more accurately through sound
- not find a stealthy survivor
Not saying Spirit can't be a huge challenge during a chase. Though that doesn't justify changing a decent killer to the point survivors don't have to adapt to a different killer.
- The hate for killers that can't be treated the same as 90% of the other killers during a trial is ridiculous in my opinion.
saying stealth is the counter to a killer is basically admitting that the killer is so overpowered there's nothing you can do once you get found.
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That's just true of any pvp game. If you were playing solo and knew you were going to be going against a premade in CS or R6 and could dodge with no consequence you probably would. Premade are inherently more likely to have better teamwork than randoms matched with each other.
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@AkiTheKitten said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/878427#Comment_878427
FG isn't good, good addons most Spirits use are duration increase, charge/movement speed during phase. Maybe they'll combine PB with the MD Ring but that's it
FG is pretty strong, makes the movement speed so high that even if you do walk she moves to where you are so fast that you cant move more than a few meters by the time shes on you.I just realised im ######### and was thinking about the MDR not the glasses. FG is pretty bad, stridor is better
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@AkiTheKitten said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/878419#Comment_878419
No it isn't. Nothing is broken about her and even the devs seem to think so because she's fine. Nothing is "problematic" about her. She has the phase sound, the hair snapping up when she phases, slow movement, she can't see blood or even the survivor. She's good and chases and has movement, that's all she has, she's fine
Anyone who thinks the hair snapping up is a noticeable tell on the power clearly doesn't play much survivor because it is very inconsistent and most of the time only happens for like 1 or 2 frames making it pretty much unnoticeable.
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@AkiTheKitten said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/878412#Comment_878412
No you don't, fr. I've been playing since it came out on console pretty much and only seen 1. Plus you can't nerf a killer's base kit cause of 1 addon
FG is just one problematic thing in a killer that is made out of a mountain of problems
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@AkiTheKitten said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/878001#Comment_878001
No one runs FG on Spirit unless you're a noob, plus it's an UR anyways so you can't justify nerfing a character because of 1 addon
There's a loot of noob spirit's then lol. I run into FG more than I do spirits running yellows.
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The game already released on discord and it was a flop. Same will happen with the steam release
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They're probably gonna change it when the chapter released because the whole undetectable/oblivious legion build problem.
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Run D Strike
This is a bad idea for the many reasons Fibijean mentioned
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Hex: Searchlight is a really interesting concept, but I think it would be a little strong applying to other totems, its basically superior to TOTH.
For your survivor perks I think it would be really cool to introduce a mechanic with survivor perks that allows them to place a "blessing" that buffs people in an AOE but can be removed by the killer. Whether or not it going would be permanent and what these thigns could do is up to you, but the idea of the AOE effect around the totem gave me the idea.
Something like Blessing: Safe Haven, Survivors within 36 meters of the blessing are protected from any effect that would reveal their aura or location to the killer. (just something I came up with on the spot as an example)
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@Polychrome_Baku said:
I don't know if I'm with you on the "unique survivor side animation and cooldown for faking phases" thing. Unless they have Nurse-level strength, a killer should not be that heavily punished for using their powers. Nobody has fun sitting wandering around at 110% movement speed with no power to chase, and no map pressure, for an extended period of time. However. I think the solution here is to make her shards brightly glow (across all of her skins) when she is charging her haunting. Not when she is phasing. Survivors should not have perfect knowledge of when/where a misdirection-type killer is in their power because when her phasing sound was directional in her PTB, she was a completely trash-tier due to survivors being able to pinpoint her location. Did everyone forget about this? The minute survivors can perfectly determine her location is the minute the spirit will be dead as a killer. So no. Adding "loud footsteps" like someone said is a really stupid idea. Ghostface was initially weak as hell due to his tv static noise alerting survivors to his presence, as well as the loud ass leather squeaking when he crouched, when he was supposed to be freaking stealthy. Killer powers should have weaknesses that ENABLE survivors to out-play them, not completely invalidate a killer with minimal effort.
Sometimes, I feel like survivors would prefer for her (and other killers) to be a joke so they feel more safe facing them. Nobody likes to lose, so instead of looking at what they did wrong they're more likely to call something "uncounterable". Both survivor mains and killer mains are extremely guilty of this, which is why I tend to only listen to 50/50 players on subjects of balance. Anyways. Until they give her the glowing shards, you're just going to have to be happy with her nerfed add-ons, removed collision, and shorter post-phase lunge attacks. You're going to face her a lot less now, but the spirits left will be the ones that basically played addon-less anyways. So much like Nurse, this won't affect the people that literally destroyed groups of survivors due to one-tricking the killer. But it will lower her frequency since she will be less noob friendly due to her addons no longer being busted.
Oh, and Wraith is a horrible comparison. He's visible from a mile away if you have two working eyes and at least one brain cell. His power also doesn't have a cooldown like the spirit's, nor is he 110% movement speed without it. Powers with cooldowns should always be stronger than powers without them. Period.
someone didn't read the post.
I said animation when she charges, not when she's in it. You can still fake the power, you just can't fake it without putting the power on cooldown anymore. Also she should be hitting most of her attacks and if she is she will do well anyways, as it is right now she doesn't even have to be right most of the time because of how little cooldown there is on letting go early. There's also currently no cost to faking your power so there is no reason to not always fake your power then hit the survivor when you see their reaction.
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@Rin_is_my_waifu said:
She has already been nerfed. Stop crying for nerfs and learn to play against her. I know you want to make her garbage to loop her for 5 gens. She already gives feedback (glass shards glow) but you have to pay attention. We don't want another garbage killer
I really hope devs don't listen to rank 20 survivors or people who haven't even played her
You can't see the glow unless you stand right next to her
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@Kenshin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/874003#Comment_874003
you actually counter almost half of the killers with spine chill. and its ######### strong against spirit. how is this not optimal? just stop following the meta like a sheep and use different perks.
Spine chill is an okay perk. Even against a spirit, DH, Adren, UB, DS is more reliable
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@Kenshin said:
there is some hard and lot of soft counter perks against spirit and you are free to use them. thats what they there for.
Using 1 or more perks slots just to counter 1 killer is not optimal
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It's almost like people playing survivor actually want to play the game not crawl on the floor doing literally nothing for 4 minutes, wow!
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@Resurrect said:
I don't mean to exclude any extra help the spirit has, but in my experience as survivor, yes chases themselves can be a bit annoying for me. The perk spin chill sheds a lot of light on the potential action of the spirit. You can tell more or less if she is on your trail based on that perk alone, iron will if hurt, walking instead of running (before being found).
I am not a good spirit as killer, and she can be tough to outplay as survivor. I just can't see further changes beyond whats coming in the next update to do any more balance other than make a then balanced killer even more gimmicky of a killer.
Like wraith being invisible, but if he moves you can easily see him . . If wraith was like spirit giving no perkless indication of their location would you complain about both wraith and spirit?
Just curious.
Yes, yes I would. Spirit is just terribly designed as she is now. She could be the worst killer in the game and I'd still call for changes, she's made terribly.
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@Resurrect said:
I might have misunderstood. If so I apologize.
"There's a mind game when there is TWO-WAY Unknown"
Does this not already exist?
Spirit goes invisible . .
- Can't see survivors
And survivors . .
- Can't see spirit
Both parties are hoping to guess right?!
It doesn't matter if she can't see you while she phases because she can 1) hear survivors and see scratch marks or 2) go to your last known position in the event of a lack of scratch marks (no scratch marks means your walking, walking means you can't have gone very far from your last known position)
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Updated the original post
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It was an issue, but it's not the only one. The nerf fixes a few issues, but she still needs some fixes.
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They're all bad, but this one is the least bad
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Imagine not being able to count to 60
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I like demo. I think he's pretty viable. Once you know how to use his lunge it makes many strong loops with straight walls like shack and jungle gyms much weaker
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I'd move nurse above spirit in S
I'd exclude oni for now since we don't really know what he'll be like in live
Swap positions on GF and freddy
Swap Myers and Plague
Swap Wraith and Pig
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@Acromio said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/866681#Comment_866681
Maths must not be your forte, eh? And playing killer/survivor at red ranks surely isn't either.
Nurse move speed is 3.85 m/s
Survivor move speed is 4 m/s
3.5 seconds x 3.85 m/s = 13.475 meters
3.5 seconds x 4 m/s = 14 meters
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@Acromio said:
She's garbage.
They reduced the counterplay to her power from "use LOS blockers and the environment at your advantage, and try to predict her blinks" to "run in a straight line and she'll never catch up to you because she has 96% movement speed and a 6 seconds bs cooldown on her power".
This is no less the case than it already was.
If you move towards the survivor during your 3.5 second cooldown after fatigue (2.5 seconds of fatigue, 6 - 2.5=3.5) you will move 13.475 meters
In 3.5 seconds a survivor can move 14 meters. Thus the survivor can only gain an .525 meters of distance more on the nurse than the could before the nerf
Basically the only people complaining about the nerf still are the people who are either on console or could only play nurse with 3 blink/omega blink
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This is a very exciting game, so that's usually how I feel after I'm done playing. Sometimes you end on a frustrating game and feel a little frustrated though.
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After the buff, it's great for knocking out totems. Was tempted to say tenacity though since I run unbreakable a lot
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@Fibijean said:
I feel like this would be pretty open to abuse.
"Hey, you loop the killer around the hook while I do generators. We'll be out of here in no time."
The post says it wouldn't work if theres a survivor near the hook
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@Deltin said:
so it'll remove 1 of the features of thrill...
also there are already a lot of counter perks...
strider - iron will
head on - iron maiden
adrenaline - NOED
You have your counter backwards there on stridor. If the killer has stridor and you have iron will, the killer will still be able to hear you (although quieter than normal)
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becuase it sucks to go against as solo
If you're a solo queue, and you look for all the totems, youre going to waste at least a few minutes but more likely 5 or 6 to get all the totems. That's about a third of the average game time. Plus if you don't manage to find all the totems before the gens get done you get punished even harder because now every dull you spent time cleansing was a waste of time because the killer has NOED anyways.
100% to counter NOED as a solo you shouldn't be looking for all the dulls, you should be leaving them up so the NOED is easier for you to find once it's active. SWFs can cleanse all dulls though because they can easily keep track of the number of dulls on the map and get them all as a team effort
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@HelloAndGoodbye said:
Just no.
A legal rage quit button is the worst thing this game could have.
Bleed out are just 2 min.
And maybe a survivor has DS, Unbreaklebill or just wiggle free.
The match isnt over until its over.
If the gates are open, the killer can still get a survivor (NOED + Bloodwarden).
If all survivors are downed, the survivor still have a chance to win the match (4% kobe, DS, unbreakebill, etc....).
Bleed out is 4 minutes not 2.
From: Regular Knockout user
I'd like to have a concede button that's available after being slugged for 1 minute. Since there's a good chance no one is coming for you, you can just leave and leave a husk behind so that you don't screw the killer.
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@Kwanghyun said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/863104#Comment_863104
Phones?? Really? They have to be dedicated nolifers to do that. Majority of ppl would accept it and play FAIR.
I doubt that's the case. Over half of survivors are 2 man SWF or higher last time they released stats. All those people would either find a different way to talk or just stop playing.
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The lore heavily implies that he is a distant ancestor and that he is the first yamaoka
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@Kwanghyun said:
The game should deny 3th party apps like discord ant team speak so SWF won’t be able to CHEAT anymore.
That's a terrible idea and completely unenforcable. Even if they did ban the use of these apps whats to stop people from using them on other devices or talking to each other with phones while they play.
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interesting perk. Seems pretty strong on maps like badham and hawkins where theres tons of pallets but weaker on other maps.
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@Cetren said:
I'm sick of people saying its getting gutted. Nothing is being changed for people who don't abuse loops with drops. In fact, for these people, and for stealth players, balanfed will be significantly better due to it muffling the sound of falling, which is usually a dead giveaway of your location. Not only that, but you still get the stagger reduction, which means you don't lose any of the speed boost due to being staggered after a fall. Its still going to be my go to exhaustion perk.
After the nerf it's literally the worst exhaustion perk. No reason to run it over lithe. It has a a harder and less consistent activation condition and now there is no extra upside, so why take it when you could take lithe.
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@SkeletonWitch said:
No.
You got Jebaited
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I think they should just make it so you have to complete a heal. Yeah that does mean you could just tap someone who is 99 on healing for it but I don't think that it matters that much.
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they should just change it to hold for everyone's sake.I use a macro for wiggle and struggle I can't imagine how many thousands of keystrokes it must have saved me now.
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@Wuhelm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/859087#Comment_859087
I don't play killer because killer is harder than playing easy mode survivor, hence I am a survivor main. It's not the killer's fault that you are slugged it's your teammates fault for not healing you, I don't get mad at the killer when I get slugged I get mad at my potato teammate who's hiding waiting for hatch, but if you left behind a husk and the husk was not subject to a timer that would be fine be fine as it changes nothing. Currently though there is no husk that is left behind and until the devs implement that you will probably never get a concede button. I would be down though for a concede button though if the whole team agrees to it, but the team would forfeit all their points and the killer would still get the points as if he had hooked them and vice versa if the killer initiated the concede the survivors would get escaped points.
Sometimes the optimal play is to not heal the slug
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@Wuhelm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/859044#Comment_859044
So take a perk that counters slugging? Oh wait you do not want to adapt.
How does wanting a concede button while slugged = not wanting to adapt. The entitled killer radiates off of you. A concede button could just leave behind a husk and it would have no effect on you.
I run unbreakable almost all the time by the way. Sometimes it doesn't matter though.
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They should just add a concede button that only appears after you've been slugged for at least 40 or so seconds. I don't want to sit here doing nothing for 4 minutes because youre thirsty for your last kill. I just want to play the game thanks.
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@avilmask said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/858984#Comment_858984
That's how you should have started "play spirit and...".
Well she's not the only one you can do it. If you're a good enough nurse or billy player they'll do it just fine too.
Maybe (big maybe) on huntress. Depending on if/how they nerf oni he may end up being the new slug god though.
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@avilmask said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/858973#Comment_858973
Nice "if you can" you got there. And if you can't it's a pointless perk.
just play spirit and the if you can becomes a "how did you lose"