Ryuhi
Ryuhi
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its like they saw how op fire up was, and wanted to make a more fair perk by giving it limited uses that the player can't control on demand.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1767481#Comment_1767481
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1767494#Comment_1767494
So you've given several examples of what not to do, and what perks to use to help alleviate some of these problems (Though I'm surprised you didn't mention Bamboozle). I gotta ask, how often do you hit Bloodlust with Wraith?
I didn't mention bamboozle for the same reason I didn't mention things like his faster vaulting addons: It stops the window, but it only stops one window from being an issue at a time. If there is a jungle gym into a TL or another gym, for example, it accomplishes nothing. While Bamboozle is a goto if not running the SF/Enduring combo, it is mostly for situations where you can use it to force a pallet drop, which again, takes immaculate positioning to even have a chance of decloaking and getting even so much as a trade at the pallet drop.
Bloodlust for Wraith was basically for making sure he could trade hits at pallet drops. Getting bloodlust itself is always a bad thing since it means the chase has gone for more than 15 seconds without a hit or pallet break, so its never ideal on an M1 killer. Without it, however, in situations like safe loops it means that someone like Wraith gets less chance of a trade (which is honestly probably why they made the change) at safe loops unless the survivor severely misjudges their distance in regards to making it to a pallet in time.
When playing Wraith, any chase that lasted long enough to reach bloodlust 1 felt like a game losing waste in itself, but they were sometimes unavoidable. The best way to play him is more hit and run oriented, but if survivors are not afraid of him and know how to not be caught out, you're going to be forced to make normal chases which puts him at a massive disadvantage.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1767499#Comment_1767499
Yeah, I’ll just run inner strength and get injured Jeff to jump into the locker with me...
or maybe.... don't worry about injured jeff so much then? If your concern is about injured jeff causing the killer to find you because you're healing them then don't drop everything to stick to healing injured jeff? If you are healing him and hear the TR, stop healing for a moment and see if the TR gets louder, then run a distraction for him if you're sure the killer is coming. Hell, run spine chill if you're sick of being unsure if the killer even saw your aura in the time before you were able to react.
I'll never understand why survivors get so paranoid about short term auras like this and undying: They frequently are activated and deactivated before the killer even has a chance to see you, unless you're sitting there continuing to heal in the TR and ignoring it. Killers don't walk around constantly 360ing to make sure they get the full benefit from every aura proc.
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you know what would be better than 5 perks? not having important accessibility or quality of life features tied behind them. Then people could actually take different perks without feeling like they are forced to sacrifice slots.
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might as well call the perk "blendette's uselessness" while we're at it.
You could always just run inner strength, but that would require actually doing bones of course.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1767462#Comment_1767462
For clown: If you haven't gotten a hit in with 5 bottles, there may be another issue. Reloading times I have heard are a pain point and could probably use a look into.
For wraith: Why are you waiting on The Entity to block the window? Walk up to the Survivors arse and uncloak, force them to drop whatever pallet you're so skittish about being hit by. You can also body-block while cloaked.
The largest problem I've seen with newer players is that they think that getting hit by a pallet means they're a bad Killer, and will purposely try to mind-game (to their own detriment) when brute-forcing it is far faster.
If you're not running spirit fury/enduring, eating every pallet is a bad thing, especially if you're not getting trades for them. Since Wraith can't attack while cloaked, he cant force pallet drops with the hope of a trade hit like any other situation, giving him even less reward possibility in return for the risk of the lunge. Most survivors know this, and won't even throw the pallet until you're almost finished your decloak, causing even more of a time waste. Meanwhile, if any nearby windows are unblocked, the survivor can often reach them in time before the decloak finishes, meaning you dont even need to waste the pallet AND it doesn't count for the entity blocker.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Doesn't The Clowns bottle throws reset Bloodlust? Shouldn't you be using cloak (even during chases), to gain the cloaked movespeed bonus and gap close?
Bloodlust is useful if you literally don't use your Killers power during a chase, noticeable on Killers like Myers in T3 if he hasn't done the T2-T3 pop mid-chase using the reduced Terror radius of T2, and Trapper if they haven't managed their traps correctly.
Cloaking in chase with wraith is completely pointless, unless the survivor is running directly into a dead zone, or will somehow give you the speed required to block a vault and trap them. The decloak slowdown is so bad that you cannot use it for gap closing unless you can be sure they will be unable to get to a window or pallet in time. Since he can't attack out of it, cloaking mid chase is usually a bad idea. Also like the other person mentioned, it prevents windows from being blocked.
Bloodlust change hurts wraith considerably because his chase strength is the pinnacle of M1. He lives and dies on mindgames and hiding his red glow.
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@The_Krapper said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1764514#Comment_1764514
Idk here lately it's been pretty bad I almost agree with him to an extent, I've seen so many survivors just hiding in corners not doing anything but waiting out the hatch from the beginning, maybe it's the hatch challenge? It's not every game but it's literally been every other game for me playing solo lately to where I've just started running with one or two people so I know something is getting done
While I agree that urban evading claudettes are a plague on the game, if I have kindred and would rather work on a gen than brush up against a camping killer, I'm not going to be particularly thrilled with someone who kills themselves on first hook and rewards said killer rather than make them lose gens for their trouble.
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@dspaceman20 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1764504#Comment_1764504
READ MY POST. I CANNOT for the life of me tell if you're doing this purpose. I NEVER SAID I WANT PROXIMITY CHAT. I know how terrible proximity chat would be for the game, this is not what im arguing however.
"To give the survivors the ability to talk would massively help elevate the ambiguity and confusion between survivors. And this is very possible because each survivor would have different voice actors already. And it won't always be a benefit to survivors there could be a range in which thr killer can hear them communicating."
Unless you are talking about some kind of text to speech system or a voice command subwheel, you're describing proximity chat. And if you Do mean the former, again, you want to be able to convey information in a game that was designed around not being able to convey information. Half the design of solo queue survivor was supposed to be around whether to be altruistic or work on saving your own ass, that survivors were a shaky alliance against a common foe rather than some kind of best friends squad. Even balance aside, have you even played vs in games like L4D? survivors spamming voice commands was more common than zombies slain.
Also imagine yelling that people don't read your posts when you don't use the search feature to see the thousands of similar topics already created on the subject
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@dspaceman20 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1764367#Comment_1764367
This is not what im talking about. Please read what I wrote before you commit.
You want proximity chat, which is awful and has been discussed to death for years on this forum, especially considering its something a competing game did and provided great evidence to why it would be an awful fit in DBD.
I was trying to give you the reasonable accomidation that you already have the ability to coordinate to a degree during the prep time that you have before a match, since survivors are NOT locked into their builds (or even characters) until the last few seconds of the countdown.
There have been countless discussions about why things like proximity chat are awful for the game. Even SWF being able to communicate messes with the balance in a way that, years later, the devs refuse to acknowledge is as bad as it is. They think OoO isn't broken because "the person with it usually dies."
Also, in case you want a mockup of how badly proximity chat can go, I never mind posting zimbabwe bubba:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCsnloTrM64 -
this topic is why "killer over performance" statistics are pointless, btw.
1v3's aren't the same as 1v4s, and "dying on first hook" counts as a kill while "disconnecting" gets filtered out of stats. Ironically disconnect penalty avoiding screws up stat reporting simultaneously.
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Victor applies deep wounds, and it does not pause while in the killer's TR. Thats all thats needed to fix victor kidnapping. They are forced to have urgency to remove him, and if the killer is able to recover the distance and start a chase while they still have him on their back, they can still loop and drop pallets, but they sure as hell better lose the killer quickly or buy enough time to throw the little gremlin off their shoulder.
Considering it takes a good chunk of the "throw off back" timer to regain control of and start moving charlotte again, the survivors should have plenty of time to get him off and be able to begin being chased normally by the time she reaches them, assuming they actually prioritize it. Unless they led the chase right in front of her catatonic face for some reason?
Survivors need to fear killer powers. There needs to be some sense of urgency. New survivors are particularly bad vs pig because they don't yet understand how bear traps work in relation to gen completion, either as the one on the gen or the one with a trap. They have all the info they need to nullify the head pop before it remotely becomes a threat, but their fear from ignorance is why it is substantially more effective in lower ranks than higher. once you know how it works, you can keep 99%ing gens across the map knowing that she can't be everywhere at once while also keeping tabs on and chasing people. The twins suffer from that right off the bat because its very well known how useless viktor is, and even with the 45 second (literally the time it takes for 2 people to finish a gen, or 3 people to half finish 3 gens) "grace period" they're getting, it still does nothing to invoke fear. You could legit set a stopwatch once you get tagged and know you have both immunity and zero cross map tracking for that whole duration. There is just no reason to fear it, especially since it doesn't even remove your ability to vault or drop pallets.
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I think my current record is 27 killer dailies in a row, including rerolls.
I think after 20 it should just print you a lotto ticket because clearly you've transcended statistical anomalies at that point.
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@Inji said:
The feedback section is the section where feedback on the game can be seen by the devs. The general section is for all other things that you want to discuss.
Feedback and/or suggestions dont get "banished" to the feedback section. This is the section where it is the most appreciated, since that is what the subforum is for when they wanna see said feedback. The interaction on the post does not weigh in on how valid that feedback is.
People are free to search for threads in the feedback section and respond to them, since they are still open for more feedback. As long as they follow the forum rules ofcourse.
This is entirely understandable, but the lack of feedback to feedback makes it feel like an absurdly empty gesture of a subforum. Nobody wants token responses to their feedback, but they want radio silence even less than that.
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@Heartbound said:
Eh. I'm pretty outspoken and nobody hassles me about anythin'.
Pretty sure they read the feedback and suggestions though. The only reason threads don't get many replies is because a suggestion isn't really a debate. If someone has an idea I can't really do much other than yay or nay it.
Another developer of a semi-large project I frequent is notorious for going out of his way to personally deliver judgement for every single suggestion people provide to the product he spearheads. And this is from people who have actual knowledge of the internals of the program, to random users who request features or complain about changes. his [No] responses have become a meme in the community, because he shoots down ideas constantly, but at least he addresses every single one, regardless of how valid or informed it is.
The devs can ignore any piece of feedback they get, thats their perogative. Having the feedback section be a one way street that leads into a brick wall with no reciprocating dialogue is not how a product improves, or even how it addresses its users concerns. You're more likely to get a response in defense of a decision to save face in general discussion than you are with discussion that gets express shipped to the forbidden archives of feedback.
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its the wrongthink section now. I've never had anything moved or moderated, yet I have zero "BHVR Read" after multiple years and a lot of topics about feedback. There is zero compulsion to interact with anything there because it is less front facing than something in more populated discussion channels.
You would think a sub forum named as such would require at least every topic to have some form of token argument against the original post, or more amenably an actual discussion regarding provided feedback. It functions more like a junkmail filter now.
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@meatisadelicacy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1762368#Comment_1762368
I don't think it's fair to lose add ons you don't even use. It's easier for killers to get bp with BBQ. Ebony moris are so common it's not even funny.
Then either use them or don't bring them? If a wraith brings a shadow dance but never breaks a pallet while cloaked, should it get refunded for free? Hell, if survors DC on first hook and create a 3 minute game, should all the killer's addons be refunded because they didnt get a fair game?
I go barehanded into most games, it boggles my mind how much people complain they "don't get to use" their syringes or pill bottle addons. If you dont get to use them, you didnt even need them to begin with. Why complain?
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nah man its not the new normal. Legion was released in an unfair, yet complete state. Then they got nerfed beyond obscurity despite already underperforming, and got to stay there for what, a year and a half? I lost track of how long its been since their "temporary emergency rework"
Im sure the Twins will be feature perfect and have no issues post launch though, right? oh ignore Billy and Blight, they just have "animation issues" and want attention.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1764341#Comment_1764341
I didn’t say the consumer should be ok.
I’m just pointing out why logically a delay in release wouldn’t be financially acceptable.
"The All Mighty Dollar" should never be a defense for a defective product. Companies go bankrupt for less.
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@dspaceman20 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1764317#Comment_1764317
That is for after the match not during it.
or before it, when you have 60+ seconds to adjust your loadout while the killer can't even change what killer they've picked.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
In fairness, as part of the publishers financial projections, and to meet shareholder expectations, release dates for content would have been set at the beginning of the financial year. There would be a little wiggle room, but not a substantial deviation from an intended date.
With that in mind, this is the first time the devs have had to do MORE than a simple tweak of numbers to meet the needs of balance for a chapter. Usually even if a chapter/content release needed to be delayed because of this, it wouldn’t be long because of the simple change of numbers. I.e. nothing that would upset shareholders, and completely screw with financial year projections.
This is the first time ever they’ve had to complete put in a new mechanic and new animations to address a big balance issue. The time required to do this AND delay the release UNTIL it’s ready would have likely exceeded the permissions given by the publisher and the shareholders.
Sorry, but they still have to run a business.
no. Blaming "muh animations" is why billy's camera is STILL broken after all these months. Its why Blight's belt buckle functions as his eyes. If animations are constantly the problem, then the product is not ready for release, especially when the track record of fixing things post release is factually abysmal. You are correct in regards to release dates, but you are not correct in regards that the consumer should be ok with this. The game industry is notorious for the horrendous conditions it puts its development teams through to fix less egregious mistakes. And while those conditions are inexcusible, calling the "we'll fix it at some indeterminate time in the future" approach while not even addressing all of the issues, only one is also inexcusable. Give us a date, say one month from now. Have some form of accountability for a massive mistake before tricking people into buying useless content. They're nerfing one of the twins perks, even though its one of the worst in the game ffs. Charging money for this content in its current state is. not. ok.
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@dspaceman20 said:
They should definitely be looking into making a communication for solo. To give the survivors the ability to talk would massively help elevate the ambiguity and confusion between survivors. And this is very possible because each survivor would have different voice actors already. And it won't always be a benefit to survivors there could be a range in which thr killer can hear them communicating.
Do you all agree as well? Is this a good idea?
P.s I don't mean in game voice chat
"P.s I don't mean in game voice chat"
There is literally have game lobby chat for that.
Not only that, but survivors are supposed to have ZERO communication at all. The fact that people are able to circumvent that is the anomaly, not the norm.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1763058#Comment_1763058
If you spend the BPs you earn with that Killer ON that Killer and you are using BBQ, you get 1 Bloodweb done (and a little bit of the next Bloodweb), without the use of any BP-Offering. Considering that most Add Ons have either multiple versions or are pretty cheap, it is fair to say that Killers easily get the Add Ons they like, unless they want to do crazy things like using Iridescent Add Ons every game.
Like, 25k BPs is an average Killer game (and a good Survivor game most likely including an escape), with BBQ thats 50k BPs. Thats a Bloodweb. Like I said earlier, on my Trapper I have like 3-5 Bags per Bloodweb. This means I can go for 3 games at least with that Bloodweb, which allows me to get more Bloodwebs aka more Bags. So I will never run out of Bags.
Let alone that grinding Killes is WAY easier. 20 games with BBQ and you have 1 Million BPs. I have all Survivors maxed out and am doing that for Killer, and it is way faster.
And well, saying that you have more and more Killers... Nobody forces you to play every Killer.
Killers actually play differently, while survivors are just literal reskins. The only differences between survivors are legit exploiting skin tone, cosmetic tone, and voice volume. If your argument is truly that "nobody is forced to play every killer," then you really need to consider that "survivors need zero items or addons to perform their role adequately, especially compared to pretty much killer with no addons."
I'm a survivor main who sinks all their BP into killers, even though I cant play the role due to the lack of colorblind options (or even just design choices) in 2020. Take that with whatever size grain of salt you choose.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Probably to bring it in line with Killer Add Ons, despite Killers having less stuff in the Bloodweb (1/3 of the Survivor Bloodweb), gaining more BPs in general (even tho it got better on Survivor side) and having easier access to bonus-BPs (BBQ-Stacks are way easier to get than WGLF-Stacks, if you dont want to throw the game).
But also, you apparently are supposed to run out of Add Ons at some point. Which is kinda odd, since I never run out of Bag Add Ons on my Trapper, if I get like 3-5 in each Bloodweb, as an example. (Basically, as Killer you cannot run out of Add Ons, except when you are using the best stuff every game)
I mean, it would be ok, if the Devs keep it that way, but then at least they should remove all the Junk from the Survivors Bloodweb. E.g. you dont need anything for Flashlights other than Batteries or Low-Amp Filaments. The rest can easily be trashed, nobody will miss it, since that stuff is (almost) useless.
But eh, it is what it is. The change was not really thought-through, but whatever.
I love this argument because that "1/3rd" has to be done continuously between the what... 20 killers there are? a number which grows every few months, and needs to not only get stuff to create builds in the first place, but THEN maintain them, all through random chance spending?
Survivors only need to get everyone to 40, then pool everything into one survivor. Hell, good survivors can even stockpile items from chests, or use a perk to stockpile items AND addons from chests. Killers have a separate progression for every single killer that you wish to play, so it requires getting everyone at least to 40 for unlockables, then however many webs to get a build that actually works for them, then make sure they don't run out of addons that are arguably mroe important than survivor items or addons. back and forth. forever. It's a disgusting amount of grind by comparison, but woe are survivors because green keys can be in webs.
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This is the big reason people have been overreacting to their bad choices lately. Its not even as much that the choices themselves are inherently awful, its that they're both incredibly low priority compared to much more important changes that need to be made, but that they also have pre-requisite changes that should be done first.
The Ruin nerf wouldn't have gotten anywhere near as backlash if they addressed the reason why so many people ran it in the first place. Not only did they not, but even their bandaid fix months later with undying both kills build diversity, can be countered to hell, STILL gets complained about by survivors, and does literally nothing unless killers can actually apply proper gen pressure constantly.
The gen speed issue was very slightly addressed with the toolbox and multiple people on one gen adjustments, but they were so minimal I wouldnt even call them nerfs. Games can still unironically be done in a few minutes.
Every time they make a sudden change like this that nobody asked for, everyone gets flashbacks to all the bad changes they've made and refused to backpedal on. All while ignoring much higher priority bugs and issues that have been around for ages, let alone any balance concerns that would be caused by the change they're testing.
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I mean, if you want to use the "just be better" excuse as a counter to any of those scenarios, why not apply it to survivors ability to utilize non-infinites?
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I just want to reiterate the frame of this conversation: You think that a situation where the killer automatically loses unless they take that loss to try to prevent future losses at the same position is perfectly ok, in a game where the lose/lose scenario is on 1 who has to outplay 4. Throw any other bias or whataboutism out the window and re-evaluate your position.
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@Withered8 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1761791#Comment_1761791
? How is huntress, deathsligner, clown and spirit situational counters? Just shoot or throw or phase if they run to the window.
Alot of the windows aren't even infinites, just windows you have to vault, which at the end of the day wastes 5-10 seconds at most.
If you're struggling THAT much with the windows, then just break the damn walls. It's not hard. And if you really really need to because for some reason it's affecting you that much then put aside 5-10 seconds at the start of the match to break them.
Just because you have to change up you're playstle slightly doesn't mean it needs to be nerfed hard. Survivors have constantly been dealing with fat after fat nerfs (yes alot of them justified) but they've pushed on and i don't see a huge drop in the survivor playerbase. Infact survivors could rightfully complain about all of the new filler pallets which are weak as hell and a free hit/down if the killer has any sense.
The spirit needs to guess. The guess is generally in her favor depending on the situation, but it is still a guess, and can still be misdirected. Reeeeaaaaalllly don't want to start the "buh spirit no counterplay" argument here, but even putting that aside, she is guaranteed nothing.
Deathslinger and Clown I explained in the other post you might not have gotten to yet, so feel free to check that.
As for Huntress, She is a 110% killer who has a wind up time for her power. She needs to be close enough to have the time to get her windup and throw in time, in addition to actually aiming it properly. One miss, or even one windup and recognizing in time she won't be able to make the throw, and she needs to take another loop around, ever so slowly. TBH she's one of the ones bloodlust would help considerably, as it would allow her time and distance to position her shot. No BL means if she can't hit the survivor before they get close to the vault, she's going to have to immediately go for breaking the door and avoid a sunk cost strategy asap.
Oh, also "5-10 seconds at the start of the match to break them." shows you really don't consider the logistics of any of what you're talking about. If I could spend 5-10 seconds to magically teleport to, and break, every breakable wall on the map, I'd do it at the start of every single game. Its almost like you have to go to the areas where they might be, break them, and then travel between them repeating this process or eventually travelling to locate survivors. Its almost like all that time and non-existant map pressure will pop 2-3 gens without getting a single down.
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@Withered8 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1761770#Comment_1761770
You know killers like clown, doctor, blight, oni, hag, trapper, deathsligner and pyramid head don't need to break them, just to name a few.
Is 2.5 seconds going to be a make or break? Seriously? Often you will just come across these loops as ur patrolling as there is pretty much always a gen in main and thus you're going to go there, or spawn there. I don't understand why killers can't just adapt and move on. I have. It's not that hard at all. Just because something was implemented which prevents you from stomping noobs 24/7 doesn't mean it's a world crisis and the games too survivor sided etc.
already included blight and oni in the ones that can break them with a power, and even with oni, its only while he has his fury active.
Clown's built entirely around anti-loop, yet not breaking a door at an infinite can potentially still cause the survivor to get an extra loop they wouldn't be able to get elsewhere, even at jungle gyms. That also means they would have enough room to make it to a pallet if one is nearby, thus extending the chase even further vs a killer whos literal only thing is being as anti-loop as possible. also imagine running out of bottles during that and needing to slow down and reload?
With doctor one mistimed shock (see, survivors jumping through a vault after screaming because reasons) and you've lost more ground than you've gained, leading to another loop of the infinite. over and over until you get it right, or break the door. the reward of timing it right is nice, but the risk is worse than brute forcing the door (or even the loop, ironically.)
Trapper and hag: survivor sees or hears you place the trap, they abandon right away. They've already gained plenty of distance on you, can come back and disarm the trap when its safe to, and in hags case that distance might as well be half the map.
Deathslinger needs to have a clear shot that he can take quickly enough. Considering his movement speed, this isn't always possible, and shots with very tight timing can be predictable enough to easily bait.
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compen-what? we don't do that here.
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@Withered8 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1761604#Comment_1761604
Then there's also the abundance of killers who don't even need to break most of the inifinite walls as well. The point is it's not hard to just get the walls out of the way at the start, it really isnt that time consuming.
Oh, you must mean Wraith, Plague, Legion, Myers, Pig, Twins, and Ghostface? or the ones with situational counters like Clown, Spirit, Huntress, or Deathslinger? The only ones who can't break doors with their power but can use their power to directly circumvent their strength are Trapper, Nurse, Pyramid Head (namely because his bait still works,) Hag (to a degree,) Freddy (only really with snares,) and Doc.
If all killers had some type of anti-loop in their kit, you'd have a point. A lot of them, even when having some form of anti-loop, can be denied situationally based on tile layout or direct counterplay, and need to make a hard read or lose more time than they would have gained just going straight for the door, making their power usage much more risky. That leaves only 6 killers who can use their power to circumvent infinites, and of those, there is STILL counterplay for most of them.
That means only half the roster has an answer outside of just walking up and kicking the door down, a quarter of them have an answer that basically boils down to "doing just that, but situationally making it faster,) and the other quarter can ignore it at varying levels of risk. wonderful balance ya got there mate.
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its an inherent flaw to the design of the hatch itself, much like 99%ing exit gates. If they want an interesting way to change it, make it so that a slugged survivor (must be in dying state) can open the hatch if there are only two left.... BUT, in doing so, it will immediately reclose and will be unable to be reopened, including with a key. then, the egc starts.
This would cause it to have a small chance of being able to avoid the last man slug game (by chance,) but would still be able to be prevented by the killer. If the killer sees it near where they slugged them, they'll be forced to abandon the strategy but also know where the hatch is, so they can still deny it and push on to the exit gate game.
Technically this would be worse for killer than the current system, but it would also be better. most importantly, it would be less boring for all parties involved.
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bones
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where's that blasted lol button when you need it
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@Letche said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1761120#Comment_1761120
Obviously the DC rate is going to be higher for survivors than killers because there's four survivors and one, count em, ONE killer per game. The DC rate has a chance of going up exponentially for the side that has more opportunities for DCing in any situation like this, that's just basic logistics. This is also assuming every DC is purposeful and not a result of game errors.
I've had a game recently where there were hackers that broke the game so badly that every spot there could be a pallet there was, all the gens popped less than 30 seconds into the match starting and the two that caused it left immediately leaving the killer and two console players (me and one other person) stuck in an infinite EGC. The killer ended up having to DC to end it, he and I got a 5 minute matchmaking penalty even though I didn't DC and the poor other console player got a 15 hour ban from the game entirely. Would only the killers DC count towards those rates? Would mine be included even though I didn't actually DC? There's too many variables to rely on those statistics for any kind of argument. Although they may not make up a majority of cases, these are not isolated incidents and infinite EGC's that force DC's appear to happen frequently.
As for the people whining about a two or three day TEMPORARY TEST and saying they 'just won't play', you're not helping your case. That's literally idiotic.
If you think the game still needs bloodlust, you'd THINK you all would play to show the devs how worse off you'll be without it. That's what the test is for, to gather data. The only reason not to play during this change is because you're afraid to show them that you don't need it anymore and validate everyone's concerns. If you need it, show them you need it and maybe they won't get rid of it entirely or at all.
I personally like a suggestion I saw earlier in the thread that could make everyone happy. They can rework Beast of Prey and make bloodlust a component of it so that it's still available to those who need it, aka the inexperienced players, and if you want to use it even though you're experienced it comes at the cost of a perk slot so that it's not abusable. It's the same reason perks like kindred, deja vu, visionary and windows of opportunity are perks and not base kit. At the very least bloodlust should not be base kit the same way any other advantage isn't.
This might come as a surprise, but most people aren't vindictive enough to be miserable just to spite the devs. If changes are made that they disagree with, they'll usually just avoid subjecting themselves to it, and play other games instead. Maybe Civ.
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@chieften333 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1761619#Comment_1761619
If you run into a dead zone that's on you, not the game.
Besides, if you fill every deadzone with a loop current map balance would feel much worse than Ormand currently is.
Actually learning tiles???? I thought only killers had to do that!
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the first two are basically the biggest issue with his addon dependency. All of his addons are designed to take individual aspects of his from unacceptable to varying degrees between acceptable to good. That means that, at best, he has to pick two aspects to not suck at. Compare this with other killer addon, which work more like the bell addons, in that they make changes to how the power works to make them less predictable unless the survivor recognizes the difference and adapts. Having to sacrifice an addon to have something not suck will always feel awful, especially since it in turn feels extremely limiting to variety. Too many wraith players feel like windstorm addons are mandatory because, well, they certainly feel like it most of the time.
The shimmer is incredibly outdated, and should work like freddy's proximity invisibility, I agree. Having it be visible nearby is fine, but there is abolutely no reason you should be able to see an "invisible" killer on the other side of the map. Hell, his shimmer can be more visually recognizable than a blendette sometimes, even from a distance.
His bing bong is part of his identity, and as much as I would love to see it go, I couldn't see it happening. tbh they should instead lessen his speed penalty when uncloaking, the lunge is fine but the distance he loses while decloaking often leads to a pallet or window making that speed burst useless (unless he can body block them first.)
He has no way to use his ability in chase, and between spirit and now blight its become abundantly clear that his power is also useless for closing the gap between loops. His hit and run playstyle feels like the only way to play him right now, and ballsy survivors still can stomp that easily since the time just isn't there.
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I wonder how many people against bloodlust even realize it takes 15 seconds of chase to even start, and resets when breaking a pallet? There's kinda a reason nobody runs Beast of Prey.
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Would be interesting if they at least were more consistent with that.
Like if vommy mommy could use her puke to dissolve them over time, they would break from a few hatchets, Doctor could use a charge at point blank to bust them open, wraith could go through them and uncloak on the other side, anything. Power interactions just feel so awkwardly inconsistent with them. Like, amanda can't even ambush break them ffs.
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@chieften333 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1761582#Comment_1761582
You mean the 4 killers who have an alternate method of breaking walls?
The only ones who don't have the same breaking time are the two who use chainsaws. Demogorgon and blight still take 2.5 seconds to break the wall.
Not only that, but the chainsaws have a rev time, which slows down the killer to boot. Even of those two, the only one that can be more optimal is billy, assuming he can get enough of a line to get a bit of sprint in before breaking the door.... and even then, the telegraph can be seen from space at that point.
The only real advantage the chainsaw bros have in that regard is in situations where they think they can get a chainsaw, realize they can't (or bubba is already going HAM with his) and they're positioned to instead break the door to not waste it. Fortunately that applies to blight as well technically.
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@Withered8 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1761230#Comment_1761230
3 seconds is enough for survivors to do all five gens?
Also remember alot of killers either have a rlly fast method of breaking walls or don't even need to break them at all.
5.
5 killers (billy, bubba, demo, blight, and technically oni) have an alternate method of breaking walls/pallets. They also arent actually faster than the base animation unless they're prepared beforehand, which gives survivors even more warning that they're going to go for the break. so much so in fact, that it can actually be used as a bait to trick them into leaving the position early.
Oh, i guess wraith can give up a precious addon slot to reduce the animation time a bit as well. goody.
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@Blueberry said:
While yeah the walls can just be broken, the problem is that the time to break the walls is a cost on the killer.
IE yeah now infinite's are gone, but the killer has to waste extra time removing them all. This is in a meta where the killers are already vastly behind on time compared to the survivors for their objectives.
If the whole breakable walls mechanic was a time sync on the survivor side and an extra objective for them then yeah that would be a more realistic solution.
imagine if breakable walls didn't exist unless survivors spent time barricading them. It was already hard enough to get them to bother doing bones before undying existed.
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You've clearly never seen those situations turn the entire tide of a game. You're welcome to your honestly naive outlook in regards to them, but it doesn't invalidate the mathematically demonstrable reality that others have experienced. Balance assessment is a combination of anecdotal and factual evidence, you can't have just one or the other.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1761483#Comment_1761483
It’s still only once.
Once!
So is ds, so is unbreakable, so is an ivory mori, so is a key, so is a...
oh, i think you get the point by now. 1 well timed strong situation can be vastly superior to multiple badly timed or ineffectual weaker situations. Time management is 100000% the most important thing in this game, especially since most other aspects like map pressure stem from it.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1761346#Comment_1761346
I still don’t get how dramatic people are being about this. They’re safe once, and once only. After that they become death traps. Some areas are actually death traps with the breakable wall left intact.
I love breaking the wall of the lower level bathroom in Midwich but leaving the wall above it intact, and if the opportunity arises, herd a chase into the area.
The midwitch one is actually a good example of bad implimentation. While the trap you mentioned is nice and can catch people once or twice, you have to sacrifice a LOT of map mobility to do it. This isn't a game like L4D where there are killer only ways to change floors and otherwise traverse the map, you straight up only have the staircases if you use that. Any form of comms between survivors can make it pretty much impossible to pressure between both floors because of stuff like that.
Now, if it were like tha game where there were multiple, more evenly distributed ways to change floors? it would be fine and maybe even great. But removing 1/3rd of your map mobility potential for a chance at a "gotcha" moment....
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@TheClownIsKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1761232#Comment_1761232
Poorly implemented how?!
Once upon a time these loops used to be impossible for killers to deal with.
Then they went too far and made them useless to survivors by putting an open door right next to the vaults.
Now ONE survivor gets ONE safe loop of these areas, unless the killer is foolish and ignores breaking the wall because 2 seconds is too long.
so, pretty sure its already been mentioned, but kicking a breakable wall is more than 2 seconds wasted. You have to either sacrifice setup time/finding the survivor and do it pre-emptively (thus sacrificing gen pressure in the time it takes to walk over to the door, kick it, then leave the area) or you have to stop chasing, route to the door, break the door, then resume chasing after the survivor who gained distance that whole time.
since the survivor movement speed reference is 4.0m/s, ignoring lunge/other loops/windows and so on, it takes about 6 seconds to close the gap and about 10 seconds for 4.4m/s killers. Obviously there are other variables that can come into play for both sides, (survivor with an exhaustion perk ready, killer power, nearby loop, etc) but this is a baseline amount of time to average in addition to the time for the door kicking animation and recovery. If they're running away from the loop into a dead zone, yeah, it won't matter as much. But when they get lucky enough to have that right into a jungle gym into a T/L....
Point is, you can't say "its just 2 seconds" when they only way thats possibly accurate is if they stand on the other side of the door waiting for you to break it.
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@Mat_Sella said:
You do realize that this is a great stride. There were godloops in the past that killers could do nothing about. Now you can. break. the. wall.
and survivors can just do bones, yet its unbelievable how both effective and hated the boring ruin+undying meta is. Its almost like every action has other factors to it that people are either oblivious to, or willfully ignore.
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@Cancan71 said:
DS can just be changed in a PTB so people can test it out there before coming to live.
Bloodlust is different because if you put the changes into a PTB, it could be affected or overshadowed by other changes. That's why it's better to test the change on live servers so people can give better feedback on it.
I mean, unless people just refuse to play during that time. That would also not only skew the results as well, but be ignored as it could be explained away.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1760949#Comment_1760949
They're not exactly infinites if breaking a wall destroys them. You may as well call normal loops infinites while the pallet is still up.
An infinite is one where the time gained by the survivor vaulting a window is equal or greater to the amount of distance the killer is able to close by pursuing them, with both players having optimal pathing. Loops should NEVER have that be possible, as it completely defies the universal "strength" of killers (being faster than survivor when just moving forward,) and especially shouldn't be possible when some killers are slower than others, making god loops hit them even harder.
infinites shouldn't exist period, and breaking walls to remove infinites would be fine.... if it wasn't for the fact that the infinites had previously been removed, then readded specifically to use the wall break mechanic. Makes me wonder if we'll get a killer perk that removes the possibility of sound bugs from occurring 🤔
I mean hell, they already did it with perks being the only way to get a decent FoV and actually have a chance to see blood if you're colorblind, why not right?
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breakable walls sounded like such a cool idea when they were announced. When survivors are at an obviously strong loop, you would imagine the kool aid man just bursting through a wall and suplexing dwight onto a hook with a satisfyingly delicious ohh yeahh!
Instead we got god loops back, and are forced to either abandon the chase to break the doorway, or pre-break them and waste early game time that is one of the biggest arguments that killers need more of.
Truly, the duality of man.