Ryuhi
Ryuhi
About
- Username
- Ryuhi
- Joined
- Visits
- 0
- Last Active
- —
Comments
-
@SpitefulHateful said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2768862#Comment_2768862
It's pretty much the same thing. Both are griefing.
If someone is locker jockeying and waiting for their teammate to die in an attempt to get hatch, I see no problem with said abandoned survivor leading a chase to where said person is hiding. Thats just as much self preservation as what the locker addict is doing, and no more or less of a betrayal. To say otherwise would be to admit that leaving teammates to die is griefing as well.
-
@El_Gingero said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2768677#Comment_2768677
The entire point of perks is that they provide a gameplay specific benefit. Considering DBD was not designed with comms in mind, and working with limited information was intentional, it made sense for limited info to take up a perk slot to provide a gameplay specific benefit.
However, now that SWF is so prominent and that so many people have access to information they were never supposed to, it doesn’t make sense for solos to lose a perk slot just to move a bit closer to competing.
The SWF has an abundance of information that puts any one info perk to shame, at the cost of 0 perk slots, freeing them up to run the strongest stuff in the game with no downsides.
It’s game breaking and BHVR can’t ever truly balance two different games at the same time without one affecting the other. Thus, comms need to be made default so that the entire playerbase is aligned and everything can be balanced on the same level.
I understand your concerns but a ping system can easily substitute comms for anyone who doesn’t want to use them, and you’d be able to have everyone automatically muted.
Do you want to use a ping system? Probably not. However you don’t have to, yet your solo queue experience will improve regardless, because everyone else on your team will be in communication (as is standard with team-based multiplayer games, and for good reason. DBD is an anomaly.)
Most the issues that plague this game can be solved with the above solution. Fewer disconnects, less camping, less tunnelling, less being slugged, fewer potatoes, not being unhooked, not being healed, vastly superior game balance for everyone involved, so on so forth.
Is having to put up with the fact that you have to select an auto-mute option one time in the menu really worth sacrificing all of that?
You need worry anyway. BHVR are dead set against comms and they will never be in the game. Such is their folly. They want to bridge the gap but to do it in a “non intrusive” way, requiring as little interaction or gameplay variance as possible, so even a basic ping system is a pipe dream.
Thats a whole lot of words for "but i dun wanna D:< " SWF has always been outside of balance for the game for having that information for free. They also get other perks for free, and can remove killer perks from having any discernible benefit. Kindred didn't even give half the benefit before, it used to only apply when you were the one on the hook. Kindred is a bandage fix, but its one that actually fixes a lot of people's complaints.... which continue because they refuse to use it.
Any type of ping system/command wheel/etc is reasonable, but requires extra assets. If they make it on screen text that would be far too strong, so it would need to be something like spoken text so its both proximity based and able to be heard by the killer. Problem is, they'd need to make more VO work for each survivor to accomplish this (even if its limited to simple things like "over here" or "need healing" and so on) and it would become yet another tool for griefing (both the killer and other survivors, honestly.) If you ever need a reminder of why this isn't always a good idea, look at how people used to spam ping commands in L4D.
in terms of the issues that plague the game, again, just use kindred. The more people are willing to "sacrifice" a perk slot for an extremely good perk that provides a ton of information to avoid those issues, the... less of a problem it becomes! Both killer and survivor would benefit greatly from specific perks being baseline, with them being arguably necessary at all (especially on killer side, tbh) but we all bite the bullet every game and make choices in our loadouts. I don't want BT to be basekit just because I rarely run it and want its benefit, I just use the information Kindred gives me to make smarter saves (or gen rush a facecamper, respectively.)
-
@lauraa said:
Lmao should have gotten good by equipping Bond and running straight to generators
This has become one of my least favorite things lately. People purposely leading the killer to other survivors who are working on unsafe gens, then just leaving and letting them get one hooked.
they always do it with killers like Bubba as well.
-
One of the biggest arguments people have about solo survivor is that the quality of your teammates is entirely unpredictable, and getting bad teammates causes a snowball effect that often loses matches. Solo survivors generally want their MMR to be higher so they have a better chance of getting paired with other survivors of equal or better skill than themselves. theoretically of course.
Killer I feel like middleground is where they want to be. Above mindless easy games, but not up to the likes of near-unwinnable games. Just games where you can play without camping or tunneling and still have a good game with a high hook count. Unfortunately, it feels like the best way to get that number is by averaging 2 kills, so the "tunnel one out, facecamp a second at endgame, then the other two leave" ends up being the most consistent way to get that level of MMR, since you end up middling your results.
-
Ive seen a lot of killers use Fearmonger/Mindbreaker to counter this, which is kinda evil really. But yeah once i noticed this, I stopped getting caught by it as much. As a bonus, i dont touch the gen again if it gets zapped, since the killer is often coming over to use pop on it for an additional 25% anyway.
-
@GoshJosh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2768367#Comment_2768367
See my first comment above, where not even Kindred guaranteed getting unhooked before going to the struggle state. And it's happened more than once to many people, not just me.
well yeah, kindred doesn't make dumb players suddenly smarter, but it certainly gives average/good players a tremendous amount of information at any given time. The only real counter to it is something like Fearmonger/Mindbreaker (which is decent) or aura blocking addons/third seal (which are generally considered bad.)
Like all tools in the game, it guarantees nothing, and takes at least some level of brain power for people to utilize. Its not infallible, but it sure as hell does improve the solo experience.
-
@El_Gingero said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2768367#Comment_2768367
No offence but that’s a terrible argument. Kindred is a perk and takes up a valuable perk slot.
DBD was designed around players having limited information, and perks like kindred are gameplay specific enhancements that provide limited information in exchange for a perk slot (and therefore another perk such as Corrupt, etc.)
I’ve honestly yet to hear one convincing argument against comms and I don’t think I ever will.
The entire point of perks is that they take up a slot to provide an effect worth taking said slot. Kindred does that very well, especially for solo survivor. I guarantee you can get more value out of it than using BT to unhook people after leading the killer back to the hook, or other similar awful uses of strong meta perks.
Here's my argument against comms: I don't want to hear 99% of survivors in the game. at all. If you make comms baseline, you have to balance around it, which means you make it more or less mandatory. SWF groups are generally people who know each other, and are ok with interacting with one another. I do not want to be expected to listen to children whining, people shouting and raging out, hate speech/racism/etc. They introduced an extremely overreaching chat filter because of how toxic this community often is, why would anyone assume voice comms wouldn't carry similar vitriol?
-
@El_Gingero said:
Solo queue will always be like this without voice comms. I know some people don’t want them in the game because it would mean pressing a button to mute people, which is unfair and unfun, however DBD is an asymmetrical pvp game where efficient teamwork is paramount. You can die after making a couple of mistakes. Of course the game is going to be an unbalanced mess of nonsense half the time when you don’t allow players to communicate.
or instead you could just run kindred which is already in the game.
-
@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2768031#Comment_2768031
And the reporting system is absolutely awful, too. I get it, the whole thing is frustrating. But I am still skeptical of the grandiose claims people make when they don't reconcile with my personal experiences. Everyone says the higher your MMR the more hackers you get, but at this point I don't know how many teams I have to 4k as Nurse to start getting the same results other people are getting.
If people said the opposite, that low MMR is what's being abused because these accounts are getting reported and banned before they reach high MMR, then I could stomach it better, as all 3 hacker experiences I had were when I first started playing a killer and presumably my MMR was lower.
"subtle" cheating has become more and more of a thing lately. A lot of them are getting better at hiding it than instahealing the second they get downed and other similar red flags. Of course, many (if not the majority) of cheating claims are just from people either not understanding a mechanic or being salty, but every time an eyebrow is raised it feels like it needs to be questioned lately with how prolific its becoming.
-
@Astral88 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/306531/the-game-is-extremely-punishing-for-killers
Do you want a wanky? Learn the game dude. Why don't you open a new topic and request a movement speed nerf during chases for the survivors so that your hits are not avoidable at all. This killer crying is getting ridicilous. Play something more easy if you have a problem with the mechanics and not willing to learn.
If they wanted to play something easier, they'd just play survivor. Thats what I did :)
-
Honestly they just need to put in more windows by using the props, and lower the amount of god pallets. The layout of the map's rooms makes it hard to have unsafe pallets, so add more vaults based props (like some of the hawkins ones were, just less pointless than those in terms of placement.) Low armrails, dolleys, even those forklifts could be used to keep them logical flavor-wise.
As it stands, the map feels absolutely awful on anyone without anti-loop built into their power. Even wraith's lunge nerf made it so most of the "less" safe loops are still safe vs him again. I can also only think of a few where the pig's dash would reach the whole loop without addons.
-
@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2767636#Comment_2767636
Because hyperbole is a bigger problem, it slaps a disingenuous face on real issues and makes it difficult to problem solve or discuss rationally.
I've watched a few streamers, I've never seen one get 6 cheaters in a day. But I would accept that video too and would gladly eat crow if you have an example.
I know on Tru's streams he's gotten multiple in a day more frequently lately. Of course he's always in perfect position to record and report them, but your average player doesn't have obs running while playing just in case they need to reactively record evidence of a hacker. Hell with how bad optimization is, some people can't even run any type of streaming or recording software or risk halving their framerate.
-
I really hate to even type this, but I feel like if anything kindred should be the only perk that would become basekit for survivors. Unfortunately most of my reasoning is because too many bad survivors think they're too good to use it, then they turn around and complain about how awful solo queue is.
One of the worst parts of having it is being able to see those same people crouch in place doing nothing when the killer is on the other side of the map, nobody going for a save when its safe but divebombing the hook when the killer comes back, and so on. Basically things they would have to be completely stupid to do with that same info.
-
remember kids, when going up against a face camper, you have a 75% chance of being skillful, and a 25% chance of being unskilled :)
-
welp, this thread got thrown into the graveyard.
-
@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2766759#Comment_2766759
To be clear, yes, CoH needs a lot more changes, but you don't need to nerf its weaker counterparts at all. That seems like a kind of weird thing to say, honestly- in what way is Shadow Step or Exponential affected if you cap self healing speeds, or you lower the numbers on CoH, or you give CoH its own unique cooldown, or any of the other things that would actually affect CoH and not boons as a general concept?
Boons aren't continual slowdown if you could break the totems, which is part of what they're designed for- because again, they're not hexes. They're limited range, they take time to set up, they're all on one totem instead of being spread out, they're not active at the start... the design differences between boons and hexes are greater than the design similarities.
Also, Shadow Step is pretty good, I wouldn't call it a bad perk. It's worth bringing but it's not broken, the problem is more that survivor meta perks are so strong right now there's no reason to bring something that's just pretty good.
Its logical when you're willing to acknowledge parity between the two systems: The Undying nerf was done specifically because people hated ruin-undying on blight, but in turn it nerfed every other hex totem since they could rely on undying to try to extend their usage possibility. Thrill of the hunt got nerfed similarly as well. Regardless of how you feel when comparing them, if you consider them apples and oranges respectively, they're still both fruit. And the way the devs have been handling them in terms of feedback and backlash, it is extremely clear that they are being biased in balancing them.
-
@BlueRose said:
I'm in the camp that both MMR and emblem systems are bad systems. The problem with the emblem system was that it treated all the killers the same rather than having a different ranking for each killer. It is not fair to punish someone who enjoys playing different killers. This happened to me more times I could count: You play one killer for a while and climb the emblem ranks as that one killer. Then you decided to try a new killer or play a different one you haven't played in a while. Well, you kinda screwed yourself now because now you have to go against better players on a killer you have hardly any exp on and have matches that are mostly one-sided because you don't know the powers of the new killer and have a harder time learning how to play that killer. The emblem system had just as many problems as the MMR system. Neither system is great and I rather see them do a better system than either one of these.
Man, the emblem bugs with killers always drove me nuts. Stuff like X killer being virtually unable to improve Y emblem if you played them correctly was a nightmare. Still kinda happens, I think if you use the Pig's iri that has everyone start with their trap on, you pretty much can't earn one of them since it was tied to placing the traps yourself.
-
@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2766720#Comment_2766720
Gliding past the false equivalence to hexes again, you are touching on part of the problem, so let's focus on that part.
Things like going through multiple floors actually are a problem, and it's why I'm kinda bummed to hear the devs aren't looking that closely at the mechanic as a whole right now. The way a hex is supposed to work is pretty simple- using Shadow Step as an example...
You spend the fourteen seconds not on a generator (plus however many seconds it takes to find a totem, though that's often not many) setting up your stealth field to help you out next time you're in a chase with the killer. When that does happen, you run towards your totem and loop in a general radius around it- at some point during this, the killer will notice that you have a boon totem up. Two things happen from there- either you go down because lost scratch marks is a detriment but not an unwinnable scenario for the killer, at which point the killer snuffs your boon and then goes to hook you, forcing you to wait out being saved and then go spend another 14 seconds blessing, or you do successfully get the killer to drop chase... at which point the killer can choose to snuff your boon, at least gaining either that same 14 seconds or the knowledge that you're playing with three perks until that 14 seconds is spent.
There are problems with this setup, even setting aside that CoH doesn't require the killer to be nearby (which is part of why it's so broken rn). Elevation is the biggest one- a boon on another floor requires a lot more time from the killer, and there are too many totem spots like that for it to just be considered a prime boon spot instead of a problem. There's also the problem that the audio cue for the killer is pretty close to the boon itself, I'd like to see that expanded a little.
Those problems, however, do not point to boons being broken. That hypothetical up there is a very good idea for the game, and I'd like to see them play out like that more often.
With your shadowstep example, all that really says is that its a bad perk. there are tons of bad perks, and these imbalances are just proof that they often don't understand what makes a perk meta or not. Think about how many perks there are, and then how many you never see (outside of an occasional player memeing.)
CoH being so good while being tied to the same totems as its less fortunate siblings creates a massive balancing paradox: You now need to nerf already mediocre perks to address what makes the good perk turn into a broken good perk. I'm glad you agree on a lot of the oversights in boons in general, but if CoH isn't redesigned entirely (removing the self care, or removing the healing speed buff. It just can't have both with how boons work atm) then the boon system itself needs to be changed. Actually talking about the oversights, remember how they used to be able to overlap and stack in the PTB? :D
Also back to things we disagree on, I still say that Boons are much more parallel to Hexes in terms of design than you say. They even carry the same "strong perks ruining it for bad perks" balance with stuff like third seal being absolutely pointless compared to the impact ruin/devour/haunted/etc can have. Pentimento feels like an attempt at trying to make parity between the two, but it has considerably more counterplay (just don't do bones) meanwhile killers can't even break a blessed totem. In the end, a lot of the differences between boons and hexes is, ironically, a lot of QoL improvements that killers wanted on hexes for years. That might be why so many killers have such sour grapes over how free boons feel.
-
I think i was the survivor on hook in that first match lmao. I had kindred so when i got basement hooked i was like "aiight, ima try to give them as much gen rush time as i can, they can see he's right here." Then one guy comes down, gets downed instantly, and dcs. Without his dumbass play, the others would have had a chance to get the gens done and at least 1 escape, but clearly the bubba's skill was astronomical according to the outcome.
-
Guarantee nurse's low rank performance would jump up considerably if more people had/used starstruck on her.
-
@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2766699#Comment_2766699
Hexes are not boons, and boons are not hexes. They're different designs with different intents that require different balancing.
I also actually agree that hexes are weak! I've posted about it quite a lot, it's just not relevant to the topic of boons. Beyond both involving the totem mechanic, they aren't directly comparable.
You're right, Hexes actually punish the killer far more and half of them aren't even worth the risk. A lot of boons are kinda meme tier, but CoH singlehandedly made the mechanic disgustingly broken due to the concessions it gets vs hexes. They are similar enough to the point that boons flat out can override hexes, and directly counter perks like pentimento just by existing (since survivors avoid doing dull bones now.) The ripple effects they cause are far worse for balance than hexes ever were, even at their "worst" (pre-undying nerf.)
Even without taking CoH specifically into account, the other problems with their implimentation like being able to cover multiple floors, killers needing to waste precious time to remove them, the fact that up to 4 can be placed around the map at a time, and their impact on killer map pressure (something most killers suffer from to begin with) make them pretty not ok.
-
@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2766682#Comment_2766682
I really don't know where this idea that the win condition was vague or uncertain came from. Maybe for killer since there are variable numbers, but for survivor the win condition has always been to escape and for killer the win condition has always been based around getting kills?
I always thought the discussions about what counts as a win before were more about proving personal skill, not about what the game's actual win condition is. The win condition is very straightforward and intuitive; escape, or stop them from escaping, respective to your side of the game.
As for "Hooks better than kills", sure, but you obviously can't base the matchmaking system on how many individual hooks the killer gets, so it's a bit irrelevant.
Rank was based on pips, not escapes/kills. You could pip without getting a 4k, and you could pip without escaping. You could even 2pip in either scenario (though it got less common the higher your rank got.) Likewise you could escape and not pip (or even black pip) if you contributed that little to the outcome of the game. As killer, If you got a 4 man slug and 1 hooked everyone, you would also usually depip.
This is why it had more nuance and was less binary, and actually had more to do with personal skill than the RNG that is the other 4 players. Nobody wants to have a great game and then get told they lost while other players who contributed next to nothing were told they won by exploiting your effort/skill and being carried.
-
@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2766685#Comment_2766685
Alongside completely stopping the exploitable aspects of CoH, it would completely ruin Shadow Step and Exponential, which would quickly become laughably terrible perks there'd be no reason to ever run.
It'd also be abandoning the intended counterplay to boons instead of fixing the current flaws with that counterplay, but that's a separate discussion.
Hex totems can be destroyed in the first 30 seconds of the game with zero counterplay from the killer, and can't be used by 4 different players in the match. They also can't be replaced when destroyed. I think my suggestion is extremely generous compared to that.
TBH it is CoH that is the most problematic one, but as the devs have shown with its upcoming nerf, they don't even understand what it exploitable about it.
-
Easy solution: If a Boon gets stomped out, at least 1 gen needs to be made before it can be placed again. Doesn't have to be done by the person who placed the totem, just... at all. Would completely stop the exploitable aspects of CoH, make it worth destroying, and still not treat it as harshly as Hex totems (which it should be, but apparently that would be heresy)
-
@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2766668#Comment_2766668
This is where the flaws do pop up- as I said, I think emblem score should be used to see how far up/down you go after the match- but it is important to note that the system does not encourage anything. It's a matchmaking system, not a ranked ladder- you're not supposed to be playing with it in mind, you're supposed to be playing with things like dailies, archive challenges, emblem score, and any other personal things in mind.
This system isn't particularly good, but the emblem system was noticeably worse.
By making MMR be based solely off of kills and escapes, they have flat out endorsed it as the win condition. With emblems win conditions were vague enough that they were more personal: my person win condition always revolved around pipping more than kills/escapes. This is where the Hooks>Kills argument for killers comes from, and explains why many killers have instead opted to go for the "facecamp and tunnel to guarantee 1-2 while being happy if you get 3 or 4" style of gameplay that has absolutely surged lately. When people are playing to win with the newly standardized definition, they are effectively making the game less engaging for every one else they play with.
-
@Lat0 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2766645#Comment_2766645
Why do people like you always assume everyone that has a different opinion is bad at the game? I don't understand this logic.
This system is way worse than the previous one. I've never gone against people with 10 hours when there was no MMR. My results are much better now because i'm stomping a lot of players that are not on my level
I don't believe I ever implied that anyone who disagrees with me is bad at the game. I think the new system encourages bad plays while punishing good ones, but "people like me" happen to have varying views and arent the strawmen you make us out to be.
-
@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2766643#Comment_2766643
So the worst thing you can really say about this system is that if you play at off hours, you're back to the way emblem based matchmaking worked?
I'm not defending its current implementation, I think the "speed over accuracy" thing that they explained in the QnA is probably the truth- that definitely would cause the problems that I've been seeing with it. It's very important to note that I'm not saying this system is good- I'm just pointing out that the emblem system was categorically worse.
Regarding your example, I don't see how it's better or more accurate for someone to still gain rank when they lose...? I don't think the current system is perfect, I think emblem score should be factored into how far you move up or down, but it seems pretty painfully obvious to me that the criteria the system should look at is whether you win or lose.
I've literally never had it work properly, so I can only tell you based off my experience. I can only usually play between 11pm-5am EST, and while survivor I get extremely random matchups. As killer I almost exclusively get sweat squads though, which is wrong because I am not very good at killer and generally only play it for dailies/challenges.
The biggest problem then goes back to the "win" metrics. Bad survivors are terrified to do things like get chased on purpose to ruin a killers map pressure, or bring perks like kindred to actually have map knowledge while solo queue. Those same people will crouch walk around doing nothing while you do 3+ gens solo and max out boldness in a match, then let you get one hooked and saunter out the exit gates without even trying to make a save while all 3 are uninjured. The current system flat out encourages that, while punishing players who make strategic sacrifices.
-
@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2766616#Comment_2766616
I agree, people saying the emblem system was better for matchmaking have rose colored nostalgic glasses on. It wasn’t.
Those people aren't necessarily saying the old system was good, just that their results from the new system are worse.
-
@jesterkind said:
Because they didn't do a good job with the emblem system, at least as far as matchmaking goes. It actually works a lot better now, just as a personal reward for how well you did in the match.
The emblem system was an atrocious matchmaking system. It categorically did not work, it wasn't fit for purpose, the amount of variance even within a rank was gigantic and it would very consistently match people of different ranks together anyway. For all this system's flaws, and there are a few, it is at least very slightly better than that.
For some people. MANY people have had the matchmaking not work at all the way its supposed to, which the devs have admitted is by design. Putting aside how bad the whole survive/kills are the only metric argument, the system prioritizes wait times over actual skill based matchmaking... Meaning if you play at off hours for your region, it doesnt even exist. Rank based matchmaking had the same problem of course, but at least emblems took more into account than being a locker jockey claudette who lets everyone die so she can be the 1 survive in a 3k. Since you could still pip while dying, good players still got rewarded even if the game turned against them. Basically we went from a flawed system to an even more flawed one, which still suffers from the same issue of not-actually-doing-its-job half the time.
I think maybe the only good thing about the new system is that it doesnt reset each month. That said, the fact that killers don't have their own unique MMR like they originally planned can make that a pretty big detriment to people trying to use under-equipped or new killers.
-
The emblem system isnt exactly perfect, but holy hell is it more accurate than *only* kill/survive.
They were even part of the emblem system in the first place. Its like they just stripped everything else.
-
I literally just had a game where I got tunneled right off the bat by bubba, then brought straight to the basement with the good ol agitation/iron grasp combo. I have kindred, so I thought "hey, i'll just make him waste the entire hook timer and give my teammates time to gen rush him for free."
Then down comes dumbass steve. Gets chainsawed, then DCs instantly.
-
Trick topic: Every time people learn tech for a killer, they get nerfed and it gets removed. :)
-
Its common knowledge that SWF is stronger than killer, which is in turn stronger than solo survivor. One of the biggest arguments for nerfing killers is usually how oppressive they are toward solo survivors (especially in low rank/MMR.) Ideally all 3 would be on somewhat even ground if balancing the game is the goal, so any solo survivor oriented buffs should coincide with killer buffs as well.
Of course, it rarely actually happens.
-
@WesCravenFan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2762602#Comment_2762602
Then get out of chase. Stop teabagging. Stop waiting at the pallet. Stop intentionally keeping the killer on you just to waste his time. You may find it fun, and that is your choice, but if you want to do other things you should make efforts to escape the chase. The game is intended, by the developer's own words, to be stealth based.
I don't teabag, and i actually use pallets as sparingly as i can. Actually gets me in trouble a lot. I don't do any of the toxic youtube video stuff you seem to be implying I do. A lot of killers just dont feel confident anymore, and if 2-3 gens fly during a chase they tend to hunker down and try to secure 1-2 kills, which leads to the tunneling.
-
@Gwinty said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2762586#Comment_2762586
Right, you did not.
Just as I did not say that "survivors who managed to hold M1 for ~5 minutes and then run out the exit gate unopposed are clearly much more skilled.". Just because I say A is false does not mean I say B is right. You never said that I should leave generators. This was just for showing the hole in the argument.
Now I do not care how many people make an argument. Just because 100 people say 1+1=3 does not make it true.
The problem we have comes form the assumption that it should be a "skill based" matchmaking. I suggest a rebrand "kill based" matchmaking would be much better. True it does not measure skill as much as we want. But what results does it archive?
As said: The camping Bubba will face the sweaty 4 person SWF. The chilled Clown who plays for hooks will go up against chilled 2-2 lobbies and it is fair because both sides have the same premise of putting "fun" over "winning".
Skill should not matter here because clearly the Clown shows off more skill than out friendly Cannibal. However would you want their positions changed?
People say they want to put opponents of equal skill against each other. However that would only result in a fair match if both sides do not hold back and bring their absolute best. 4 person SWF with full mambo-jumbo against meta-nurse with no holds barren and we can put the opponents together by measuring skill.
Not so for out clowny friend. Even if he is tons more skilled his self set boundary when playing against an equally skilled opponent will have him crushed before he can even whip his knife a single time.
If you're done being a contrarian, the topic is about a comment that being able to run the killer for 5 gens is not skillful if you don't escape the match. You went on a rant about how you agree and how anyone who disagrees must be wrong, starting with
"Why do you think he is wrong?
Just making fun about this quote does nothing and people who get fed up with it are mostly not bothering to talk about the point."
To which I gave the self evident counterargument. I implied nothing. I didn't put any words in your mouth. You're just looking to rant at people for dunking on a notoriously bad take from a dev (which almost feels like a tradition at this point in this game.)
-
@WesCravenFan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2762537#Comment_2762537
They are more skilled at doing the objective of escaping, yes.
The problem with the whole "But I ran the Killer for 5 gens" argument is that if you managed to run a killer for 5 gens, they were a bad killer. And if they are a bad killer that means you likely had LOTS of chances to evade the killer. But no, the 5 gen runners do not WANT to evade the killer. They want to stay in chase the whole game "because gens are boring".
So yes, if you want to willfully ignore the objective on purpose because all you want to do is stay in chase, you are ignoring the objective. What you really mean is you want to get rewarded for chases. Which are not an objective.
If I get tunneled for 5 gens, i have likely more than capped out Boldness points and would certainly like to do something else. I can't count how many times I've just simply been unable to get the killer to disengage, and they throw the entire game just refusing to switch targets. especially lately.
-
@Gwinty said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2762537#Comment_2762537
Okay, let me do the same thing to you, you did to me with this post...just to show the fallacy of one of your statements...
So you are also saying that while you are looping the Killer I should not hold M1 and slam that sweet generator? Okay, noted. Next match I will do fancy stuff like cleansing dulls, opening chests and try to tank a hit even thou I am pretty ######### at looping. If that is what is more appreciated...
What I am saying thou is that holding M1 on a generator is the right thing. Leaving you to die when you get facecamped by Bubba is the right thing and leaving the match when the Killer has NoeD and I can not find it on any totem I saw during the match is also the right thing.
Sometimes altruism is going to get you killed and egoism is the right call.
I never said that "team performance" should not get included in your MMR result. This is a team effort after all and the system should be improved in this point.
But tell me: Do you really want that number to go up so that you face more face-camping Bubbas with NoeD, Nurses with Infectious Fright/Ruin/Pop/Scourge, tunneling Blights with Alchemist Ring and other sweaty stuff like that?
I... what? When did I ever say you shouldn't be doing gens if someone is getting tunneled for 5 gens? Thats exactly what you should be doing. That doesn't make it skillful though, just not-braindead. The entire argument that I (and most people) have is that the game's metrics of skill do not, in fact, account for skill, especially with his outlook. They assume skill must have been involved because the outcome is favorable.
-
@Gwinty said:
Why do you think he is wrong?
Just making fun about this quote does nothing and people who get fed up with it are mostly not bothering to talk about the point.
Let me illustrate this: Think about a Killer running "Hex: No one escapes Death", "Bloodwarden", "No Way Out" and "Coupe de'Grace". This Killer looses 5 generators and then Killers everybody on their second hook and you on your first.
Now, where you skillful to run the Killer for 5 generators? Maybe. Did you just play into his strategy all along? Yes.
Or to take a less extreme example: You finish all generators. The Killer is Bubba. He has NoeD. You ran him for 5 generators, your teammate was a potato that hide in a locker where Bubba grabt her.The gates are open. You now have to make the decision: Rescue your teammate or just leave.
If you die trying to be super altruistic, was you decision a good one? Should you maybe get punished for bad decisions even in the very end?
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2762462#Comment_2762462
If the goal is to escape...
What is more skillful? Run the Killer and get downed or let another survivor take the heat and just smash that generator M1 and stealth away?
I am not good at looping. I can stealth and I have a good coordination on the map. I can evade a Killer pretty good and outplay them with "Fixated" to no end.
What you call "warming the bench" is also not entirely true. If we stay with sports: You players in the reserve also get the cup if their team wins. Why? Because if the reserve plays well when their times has come they have an impact.
Or would you say that the reserve players should be excluded from the rewards for winning a season if they had little time to shine?
You're completely missing the point of the critique. If being able to run the killer for 5 gens and then getting one hooked by being facecamped while the other three leave isn't skillful according to SBMM... you are also saying the survivors who managed to hold M1 for ~5 minutes and then run out the exit gate unopposed are clearly much more skilled.
Its literally an ends justifying the means argument and a really bad one at that. Take the word skill out of the equation if you're not even going to attempt to adhere to it.
-
The worse the game gets for killer, the more killers are forced to play in a way that ruins the game for solos. When killers are not confident, they have to resort to tactics that secure few kills rather than ones that could potentially get many. SWF has had this type of rippling effect for years but it will never be removed and makes things impossible to balance. Buffing solos to shorten the gap is one thing, but killers need to be allowed to have more variety in playstyle and actually be viable or they're just going to keep quitting the game entirely.
-
@ThiccBudhha said:
That could still happen under the old system, and it did, when I was literally a baby killer. This is much better even if most killers can't hang with swf. Just lose until you get to a proper rank or git gud. You know? The game doesn't need to change to adapt to you. It is the other way around.
They already confirmed it prioritizes wait times over actual MMR matching. You can lose literally every single game you play, and you will still get matched by sweat squads if they havent gotten a match in a few minutes.
-
you can't see MMR because it doesn't work. You'd be able to see when the matchmaking takes a 20 MMR player and pairs them with a bunch of 2000 ones, and would also give killers information to avoid survivors who vastly outskill them and dodge the lobby. Even if they had it only in post game, it would be just like rank was: a verification of how awful the matchmaking actually is.
At least this way the majority of the player base is somewhat ignorant.
-
@OpenX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2762281#Comment_2762281
For MMR maybe. For my own personal win conditions? Surviving a trial is a win. Camping a door with wake up still gets you MMR but I always run keys.
And as if I care about the arbitrary decisions of the devs who can't even make up win conditions for their own game. To them I can get 10 hooks and 2 kills and that's the same as facecamping 1 hook and then getting 1 kill with rancor as leatherface. It means nothing to me. I care about my own fun, and to me escaping is the only win. A 3k or 4k is the only win.
Why? Because killing people is the condition for talking ######### in the endgame chat. And lets be real, that's what matters in DBD. Keeping your pride in a game that's designed for you to lose.
My own personal win conditions are pipping. If I can pip in iri ranks in a game we lose, especially if someone DCed, then I won by a landslide. Even better if I somehow get a double. Know what the biggest difference between our outlooks is? mine doesn't ruin the game for other people, while yours does. You're kinda putting yourself on the same level as the person who DCed, just too much of a coward to take the penalty in the process.
-
@OpenX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2762264#Comment_2762264
Well that is too bad. That is how you win in a game that has gone south. Your teammates can DC or just get slaughtered and you lose without any real input from yourself. You can only hold M1 on a gen so hard. I am a very strong looper, I know every map inside and out, I slam gens when it is an option, and I will play for the team if I think it's a viable strategy to win.
The games where 2-3+ people are slugged when im not even 20 seconds into my first generator that I literally held shift+W to? I am letting them all die. Cause that is not a game you are ever winning. And if there was a 1% chance that the stars aligned and the team still escaped, there was the 99% chance to die and I work off the most statistically successful strategies.
Letting the whole team die is a very successful strategy I often employ. And it's only my teams poor play that puts me in the position to make that decision so it's their own damn fault. Darwinism at it's finest.
you... do know that hatch escapes don't count as a win, right? its a draw.
-
I think this is one of the biggest reasons SBMM is such a failure, and the devs answer in the Q&A proves they still don't understand it: There are survivors who carry, and other who get carried. Escape in a given match will always be detached from player skill for as long as selfish players exist.
-
@OpenX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2762235#Comment_2762235
I have played too much killer to agree with that. If I can't win a 3v1 with 4-5 gens left then something is seriously wrong, even if the survivors are better than me. That's literally an automatic win for me even on an M1 killer. So no, I don't sit there and pray my opponent is completely incompetent when someone on my team DCs at 5 gens. I play for the win.
not everybody defines "the win" as crouching in a corner and locker jockeying waiting for a chance to get the hatch the second someone dies. Games don't always spiral out of control when there are still 5 gens left, people ragequit even when there are 3 done. Being willing to play matches you know you can't win is something that makes you a better player, and increases your overall escape rate. Think more long term.
-
@OpenX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2762217#Comment_2762217
The DCs and unwinnable games are exactly why you run left behind or wake up. The OP didn't ask for perks that help you get to the endgame. They asked for perks that help you when you are already there.
You don't need perks to help you reach endgame, all you need is a locker and the willingness to let your team die. No game is unwinnable with left behind key. Your biggest threat is your own team ratting you out when the killer slugs for the 4k.
Games in DBD are usually a landslide. When I win as survivor, half the time I didn't need any perks. When I lose? There's literally nothing to do except wait for the hatch or exit gate.
Running the meta builds and playing as a team are not required to survive in DBD. You don't need BT/DS. You only need those if you care about your team dying, which the OP stated they do not. Careful play makes DS pointless and BT is only for your team.
No. Doing that "one person DCed so i need to start playing for hatch" stuff is self fulfilling prophecy, and it ruins the game for the other two players in the process. It is entirely possible to win those games as long as people don't succumb to that mentality. And if/when you don't? You shouldn't go into every single game expecting to win every single time. Doing your best and getting better is the best perk you could ever hope for.
-
Don't take perks specifically to survive. Take perks that give you the best advantages for your objectives and information, and they'll in turn increase your survival rate substantially if you use them right. Main reason for this is because you will run into too many DCs and unwinnable games to skew everything into just surviving.
Windows of Opportunity - Maximize how much of the killers time you can waste in chase. Knowing what pallets/windows are available, which doors haven't been broken yet, and the most optimal way to combine multiple loops is not only great for giving everyone enough time to work on gens, but resetting the killer's pressure when they get a strong position. which ties into....
Kindred - Arguably necessary for solo queue, based on the absurd amount of information it gives. Knowing where the other survivors are when someone is on the hook is massive, and like windows can be used to remove a killer's map pressure easily (If you're willing to be chased on purpose.) It also tells you when the killer is face camping, or when your teammates are going for saves, so you can focus on gens and keep efficiency up. As a solo, you can use the information from these two perks alone to cause a lot of damage.
Spine Chill is another one I'd nominate as well, due to how strong it is vs stealthy killers. If youre pairing it with windows as well, you can get a pretty big head start on routing before you even get a terror radius, making you much less likely to get caught outpositioned. The small boost to actions while being looked at certainly doesnt hurt either, and can sometimes be the difference between getting tagged at a window or not.
The last spot I would take your exhaustion perk of choice. Dead Hard is the most common pick, but SB/Lithe/Balanced also make good picks. Some stuff like Head On arent really as suited for solo play, but as long as its a perk you're good at utilizing thats the most important part there.
There are other great perks you can sub in like BT/DS/etc, but Kindred should be on every solo survivor imo, with Windows not being very far behind. The other two slots have a bit more room to pick what you'd like.
-
@zarr said:
The answer given in the Q&A was definitely disappointing. Even regardless of the fact that mobile DbD (apparently) does have a bot mode with all killers available, what players are asking about more than actual training matches is just a training mode. That is, the ability to load into any map as any killer or survivor, on your own. Bots wouldn't even have to be there, or if they were, they wouldn't have to be coded to actually play well. Let them all die to RBTs, it's not like people go into training modes to "practice" overall match flow, for that they should just go into actual matches anyway, bots will never come close to that experience. They go into training modes to learn the basics of the maps and mechanics and perhaps some fundamental principles.
It would be a trivial thing to allow players to load into custom matches offline on their own, giving them the opportunity to become familiar with and even study in detail the various maps, abilities, certain mechanics, add-ons, offerings and perks. Why is this not a thing yet? I think it's possible they dodge this question because the main reason is that they don't want players to be sitting in offline modes rather than queueing.
Literally all they need to do is make it so that people can load into KYF without requiring a second player, and put a block on all the player number determinations (match being over because no survivors) and.... thats literally it. players can leave by using the leave game option.
Learning new killers, how addons affect their powers, etc is awful in its current state, especially since said addons get used up in normal matches. Survivors can benefit from it as well by learning tiles better as well as routing/looping efficiency.
The thing that annoys so many people is that we almost already have it, you're just forced to have another person join you in order to access it.
-
@GuyFawx said:
Ive seen noed replace a boon on final gen being popped. Gotta remember tho noed is a last ditch effort perk designed for teams that are too altruistic. Its something thats truthfully only countered by cleansing every totem on the map which takes a lot of work and a map unless you dont know where to look
nah, people used to count to 5 all the time, you don't see it as much now because people want to leave behind the totems for CoH boons (or to avoid pentimento, which can get disgusting with enough stacks)
-
its just like the "oh you're trying to break chains? slow vault right back to the killer" issue.