Ryuhi
Ryuhi
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3083202#Comment_3083202
Killers still played when dead hard was a thing, your point?
You're right, they did. They sucked up how awful it was and changed their strategies, like they were told.
Its hard to not make this an us vs them argument when one side is so vehemently unwilling to change.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3083190#Comment_3083190
There's is nothing to adapt.
then everyone must have quit, but for some reason i still see people playing
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@I_am_Negan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3083115#Comment_3083115
Something like that.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/IIZXIX62GJMJ/giphy.gif
I don't pay attention to that category.
Understandable, it feels like the category survivors have the least agency in points-wise. You either escape and get a huge chunk or you don't and get maybe a thousand or so.
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its just the usual review bomb tactic. Why people put more effort into that than actually adapting to patches is beyond me.
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@Gorgonia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3082807#Comment_3082807
BT wasn't META. It was pretty much a requirement to try to get a chance after being unhooked.
SC is in a temporary state. It will go back to useless eventually.
WGLF META?
BT wasn't META
lmao cool
its kinda silly how people claim it was absolutely mandatory and nobody ever did well without it and yet don't think that makes it meta?
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@I_am_Negan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3083081#Comment_3083081
Don't go down the whole match and escape and stay alive for more then 9 minutes.
that gives you the emblem, not the points.
for points you specifically need a killer power that can grant them, wiggle as much as possible, and self heal like a madman. of course you can't ignore literally half the category's potential being tied to whether you escape or not, though.
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The 40k cap increase wasn't to actually give people 40k points, it was a 2k increase on each category for lopsided contribution games. The math with current earnings barely facilitates it without some degree of farming or setting up specific situations
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@WesCravenFan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3081168#Comment_3081168
"Out of position" is a term the community has had for over 5 years. This is not new.
And yes, you are supposed to go down in chase. You are not supposed to get seen in the first place. There are perks to help you find Survivors, but no perk is perfect and you only get four slots. For all the whining about "gen regression" perks you are now worried about location perks? How many perk slots do you think killers get?
Camping and tunnelling are the Killer doing their job to kill you. You are not ENTITLED to an unhook.
The most ironic thing is that location and information perks are the #1 deterrant to camping and tunneling, since they improve the efficiency of going for a new target vs staying on the current one. When people complain about any of them, especially BBQ which that is literally its only value now, it stops being impartial.
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3066076#Comment_3066076
Are you kidding me?
You consider getting seen a mistake? You do realise that there's a small trove of killer perks that make it impossible to avoid getting found, right? And you know that, if the survivors want to have any chance of finishing their objective, they have to risk being seen?
Then you pull some 'out of position' thing out of god knows where, once again disregarding the fact that survivors are forced to move into certain locations by merit of the objectives, and then you somehow split 'losing the chase' into two separate items. And you mark 'got downed' as a mistake despite the previous paragraph of your own post declaring, loudly: "You are SUPPOSED to go down!". So how is that the survivor's mistake!?
And that is on top of a gross misrepresentation of the actual issue. The problem isn't that once a killer starts chasing you, it's virtually impossible to lose them, the problem is that survivor gameplay is supposed to be more than constantly getting chased down and nothing else (Tunnelling), or only getting one single chase and 2 minutes of incapacitation (Camping, slugging).
Literally no one complains about getting hooked. People complain about the game mechanism of unhooking getting sidelined by campers.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3066432#Comment_3066432
what do you have to say about sweaty survivors making killer just as miserable?
I am absolutely in favour of nerfing bully squad tactics to the ground. In-built flashlight immunity for X seconds after being blinded for example. BNP removal. Removing the ability to deny pick-ups by healing.
But bully squads require a ton of skill and intensive coordination from multiple people to pull off, whereas camping just requires the killer to play for a bit and then AFK. Which do you think is going to be more common?
I also don't think -anyone- on the forums has ever argued in favour of bully squads and their tactics. But the pushback against any criticism on tunnelling and camping is pretty hefty. There's always, -always- going to be someone popping up going 'Well killers don't have to make the game fun!' when I can't think of a single time a complaint about bully squads was ever dismissed like that.
Everyone hates bully squads. But there's a lot of people stuck in a sort of revenge mentality that'll jump high and low to justify camping, tunnelling and slugging.
That's why no one bothers to point out how annoying bully squads are. We know. Everyone knows. There's no discussion to be had. It's just going to be 'I hate bully squads', 'I agree'. There's no point.
you went immediately to bully squads, I didn't. Solos can and do also make killer miserable just as well, its often the first defense BMing players give that they're "not even swf." Also its not "a revenge mentality" in most cases, but a defensive one: A lot of people who play killer less often will do it to reduce the liklihood of having to deal with 4 people refusing to leave and bming in the exit gate. Can't be a sore winner if you don't win.
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@indieeden7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3080203#Comment_3080203
That is still an accumulative 50 seconds is it not?
it is, but its impact is not. Time's value is extremely relative due to how horribly skewed it is in either direction at any given time. The impact of the 10x5 seconds can have pretty different outcomes depending on how the match goes around them, its not just "now i have to spend 50 more seconds on gens" like it often gets thrown around.
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10 extra seconds doesnt automatically mean an extra 50 seconds, sometimes it just means a group of up to 3 pop 10 seconds later. They also nerfed the perks people were using to find new targets away from the hook quickly, so it was bound to happen.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3079981#Comment_3079981
Healing part removed because perk created lose/lose statuon for survivors. Heal yourself and lose good time. Don't heal and lose more time on generators. So one of the effects had to go, they removed heal penalty.
But with buffed generators time, now Thana is problem. And it is busted only on 2 killers. So at this point, reworking it will be healthy for everyone. And plus maybe perk will usefull for all killers instead only Legion and Plague.
just think about it this way: its busted on those two specific killers because they're actually able to get consistent value out of it. If they wanted to do anything to hardcap those two's effectiveness with the perk, they need to address how little most of the cast gets out of it. Otherwise they'd just be killing it entirely (which is likely what would happen.)
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i mean some of this stuff being used to offset other grind issues introduced to create a net negative reduction doesn't mean much when stuff like the forced prestige cost sure as hell works as intended.
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it used to affect both but apparently its affect on healing speeds was the more oppressive so that was what got cut.
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they nerfed most reasons to leave the hook, not everone owns sadako so either you use gen blockers or you just dont have defense anymore, and statistically speaking instantly tunneling 1 has always been the strategy that gets hurt least by a coordinated team. Tunneling and Camping weren't fixed by any pf the changes because its already the bare minimum strategy left, there are too many killers who feel they have zero choice unless they want to risk straight up throwing the game.
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@Araphex said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3075001#Comment_3075001
I never said they committed to it. But i swear they mentioned it in their anniversary video. Could be wrong. But I was just explaining what those buffs were because they're not really buffs. Just HUD icons to tell other survivors what everyone is doing, which is already a thing with SWFs because they have mics and can just talk to each other, giving them an advantage.
communication is broken when swf have it, so the solution is to give solos the broken thing too? You already have almost as much info as swfs if you use 2 information perks like kindred/empathy/bond/alert/spine chill/etc. People just refuse to use them because they keep saying the meta is mandatory and nobody ever wins or does well without it.
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@Raccoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3075001#Comment_3075001
They also seemed to backpedal on it pretty hard when questioned last.
it was more of a "proof of concept" that people started asking for a release date for so yeah makes sense
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@Araphex said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/335713/i-wonder-why-bhvr-abandoned-the-plan
What they're implementing is notifications on survivor's icons to indicate what each survivor is doing, which is basically what happens in SWFs since everyone can just chat on mic. They're still working on it and I believe they said it will be released later this year.
THat was given as an example, they never even committed to it.
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@CodeDB said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3070794#Comment_3070794
Jolt - Buffed
Deadlock - No change
Dead Man's Switch - No change
Dying Light - No change
Eruption - Heavy buff
Oppression - No change
Scourge Hook: Gift of Pain - Buffed
Thanatophobia - Buffed
Call of Brine - No change
Merciless Storm - No change
Argue what you will about the effectiveness of some of these perks but don't spread lies to make your argument better.
Most of those were worthless and continue to remain so, with only a few like DMS and Deadlock (which pause gens, not regress them, major difference) being any good. CoB has already been mentioned as the new BBQesque pay2win, which basically just leaves thana's buff that is specifically for 2-3 killers and not really important on anyone else. Gen blocking perks are important to distinguish because its a neutral effect: it stops gen progression but also stops and prevents regression at the same time: there's a reason theres a survivor perk that can block gens on demand. Is it often a better thing for the killer when a gen is blocked, of course, but its not the same as regression.
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You know, I figured that nerfing or flat out removing every alternative was a weird way to handle it, but i guess they know better.
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@dugman said:
It's not a "bug", in the patch notes they specifically made it show the notification within 36 meters.
Whether or not that's a good idea is another topic, but it's not a bug, it's what the devs said they were doing in the notes.
If its supposed to be a bandaid for the TR with hearing impaired players, why would it work when there is no TR? I know their track record with accessibility is less than stellar, but that doesnt seem like the correct way to implement that based off that reason. If anything, it seems more like:
@Mattie_MayhemOG said:
People whined their way into Spine Chill not getting nerfed under the guise of accessibility.
which, if true, is downright insulting when compared with how many MUCH more simple accessibility changes have been ignored for literal years and have a very strong impact on the game. I'm really hoping its an oversight bug and not just using accessibility as a shield from criticism.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3071820#Comment_3071820
Yeah it punishes you for not healing
Even when you're healthy or physically can't heal without giving a certain killer one of the strongest powers in the game.
That's fair
Dying light on it's own is a survivor perk yes, paired with thana on plague? It's annoying. Not OP, not good, annoying.
People seem to forget that if nobody cleanses, plague only gets 1-2 shots at her power. Outside of that, she's just a M1 killer who is tall as hell so she can barely mindgame unless its a loop at a tall wall. That in itself can buy more than enough time to offset thana stacks, especially compared to anti-loop killers. If she gets looped she needs to decide whether to break away and look for someone out positioned, or (possibly over)commit to the chase.
The main issue is that your average survivor is absolute garbage at managing when to cleanse and when not to, as well as the ones who are just bad at looping m1 killers. Otherwise the synergy has a lot less effect than you might think.
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@VcatoV86 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3071622#Comment_3071622
I can agree with this:
let killers see which survivors are in a group.
Or, I have seen other people offer up these ideas:
allow voice coms
create a chat wheel with basic chat commands ("I am going for the unhook" / "I am finishing a gen") etc.
I do agree with you that the "winning" strategy for a killer is to try hard and sweat at first. However, I never do this and I still "win" the majority of my games.
The question becomes: how do you define "winning" for a killer? Like I said earlier, it used to be that 2e/2k was the draw. With survivors being so powerful back then, this made killers feel like they were doing very little.
Now, from the data that the devs have shared, we see that 3k/1e is the norm. This takes into account games with SWF because it is an average.
So then we go back to your point about trying to balance against so many variables. What we have seen is that they have taken a very specific approach: balance for the top tier games, focus upon reducing survivor power because of SWF, empower killers. This has been going on for years.
None of it, as you say, solves the underlying issue. At this point I wonder if the devs even care to do so?
Thats actually old data with the 3k/1e thing, they stated recently that kills were *below expectation* without elaborating further or giving updated numbers, so old data like that is in need of update and re-evaluation. In terms of their approach, I disagree completely: the game is at its worst with highest and lowest skill levels. Survivors do disproportionately well when both skilled and organized, and killers do disproportionately well when survivors are neither. The way they handle exploits and other unintended situations is evidence of this, with many forced lose/lose situations for killer side being a staple of bully squads, while unorganized/unskilled survivors might not even finish a single gen before getting 4 man slugged or similar loss scenarios. The devs are 100% ok with how much power good swfs can have, they even infamously defended old OoO because "the person running it usually dies" despite the fact they turned themselves into a walking UAV for their team for the entire match.
I think the game is, like all lazy rng infatuated design, balanced for the middle. It is always unfair to one side or another, and often unfair to both sides at varying degrees with every single match. If you actually start to put well formulated design decisions into the equation, it literally has less balance direction than a game like Mario Party.
gotta say tho, its refreshing to have level headed discussion about this type of stuff, helps fend off some of the nihilism that comes naturally with discussing a lot of decisions in this game.
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@HATCH said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3071453#Comment_3071453
you wanna screeshot of all of the games I got tunneled this week? "oH gEt GoOd At LoOpInG" looping wont get you far if the killer know the game just a little bit. And with the new update its even worse to loop the killers. You dont get tunneled probably because of you just hide in a corner all game and selfcare or setup some boons or somethin
Why not just not be the first survivor seen? if every killer is tunneling right away with no way to counterplay, let it be another survivor instead while you work on gens or something. Granted if you don't understand looping or tiles in general, getting caught out early is usually a surefire way to get tunnelled.
You have to either get the skills to back up playing aggressively, or play defensively and adapt around others doing it. Killer is always supposed to be stronger in a 1v1, its why there are 4 survivors. You need to be able to waste so much of a killer's time that they don't consider the time sink worth the investment and move on to another target instead.
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3071510#Comment_3071510
Having survivors needing to collect things around the map in order to repair gens. Gens get repaired in chunks at a time where a survivor sits down and adds the item to the gen. Survivors would have to play around the killer more trying to get their objective done.
I'm going to say this is the perfect solution, but at least in my opinion a problem this game has is survivors don't really put themselves into dangerous situations to complete their objective which leads to complaints about gens being boring to fix.
Tbh i think they just need to increase gen times more, BUT make it more involved than just occasional skill checks. like make it so you have to play a ddr minigame made out of falling dwight faces or something. The fact that skillcheck frequencies are random but all you do outside of them is hold a button and stare at a progress bar is like you're waiting for windows to finish starting up.
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@VcatoV86 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3071467#Comment_3071467
In many ways I agree with this. A lot of people have commented about the fact that it is trying to balance around SWF that is the true issue.
But again, when I play killer, I run up against SWF occasionally. Knowing that a small section of my games are going to be against toxic survivors that make it very difficult to do anything is just a part of the game. Why? Because, as killer, most of the games are not like that. It is how I used to approach the old camping and tunneling: meh, next game.
Nerfing solo q repeatedly, while acquiescing to killer's frustrations against SWF, means that yes, survivors as a whole (because most do not run 4man SWF) have seen an increase in toxicity.
Why can killers not just accept that some games will be bad and move on? Why do they need to kill 4k every. single. game?
because you can't know if you're going against that beforehand, and you don't find out until its too late to change your playstyle or mentality. Many killers sweat the first survivor out asap then start playing more chill if theyre ahead in the 3v1. Its a lot more fun to play for hooks than kills, but if you do get a sweat squad they're going to do the most damage at the start, so starting chill and turning up the heat will always be a losing strategy in that case. I've said in other topics that the biggest issue with the game is that survivors are far too strong at the start, while being too weak at the end in its natural progression: the more survivors die, the harsher the efficiency cap on the remaining ones. They're encouraged to get as much damage as possible done early while the killer's advantage normalizes and then grows in proportion to each interaction and wasted resource. People have developed a lot of different playstyles to help offset this, and it was one of the biggest arguments for slowdown builds... Instead they just butchered all the builds and tactics except for camping and tunneling, and slugging to an extent.
One of the strongest arguments for being able to see SWF has been so that killers can decide if they need to force that advantage as early as possible in order to be viable. If they feel cornered right off the bat with every single match, they're going to try to be as efficient as possible regardless of how it affects other people's games. Just like how if a bubba is facecamping i'm not moving away from that generator until he at least leaves kindred's aura range. It becomes the smartest move when the alternative is straight up counterproductive.
Oh its also worth noting on the above efficiency shift observation, I think that survivors should be weaker than they are at the start of the game, but stronger than they are after teammates die. just to avoid any confusion.
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@drsoontm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3071484#Comment_3071484
I'm having an hard time imagining they didn't thought about this possibility. It's the nature of the beast.
They really need to hire someone with ADHD or an anxiety disorder, because naming oversights has become a kneejerk reaction to how often they completely overlook aspects of their own game with each decision. You could do bingo drawings with it.
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people just have an irrational fear of progress bars, especially when they make up the majority of your gameplay.
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@drsoontm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3071328#Comment_3071328
I didn't realize. I'm only hoping they can disable this ASAP.
I'm sure they will if it becomes something people experience a lot, but its not like they could have had the foresight to prevent it from being an issue in the first place. That was their excuse for not making a similarly impacting decision in the past, after all. like always.
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@VcatoV86 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3071382#Comment_3071382
I've been playing for just under 6 years. For about a year or 2, I had 1-2 friends who would occasionally play. They were driven away by the continued increase in tunneling and camping.
For the longest time I had your perspective. I kept practicing and was routinely in red 1. After the MMR update, I still would go against pretty competent killers and have a pretty good team.
Within the past few months, that has all changed. Every single game....for months...has been camping and tunneling. All of them. I was looking forward to this update as a way to hopefully balance just how insanely boring and punishing it was to play as a survivor.
Yet my experience since the patch has dropped has only confirmed that things have become worse. More camping, more tunneling, because killers have more time to do so!
Will it take some time to adjust to a new meta? Sure.
Will the game start to balance out? Who knows?
Psychologically, when you have trained people to be rewarded for doing certain behaviors, and you do not fix that reward system, then why stop? Why should killers not tunnel and camp? Used to, it was because other survivors would rush gens and you would be lucky to get a 2k/2e (which the devs used to say was the balance, but no longer).
Instead, killers whined and complained and devs listened. So now, they continue to be rewarded for behavior that is punishing to survivors, with zero drawbacks. Is 3k/1e the new balance goal for the devs? If so, we hit that mark weeks ago when they released their data. That was before the patch.
So that leaves us with this: devs want most games to be 4k. They want killers to get high off of the bloodlust of killing everyone in their sight. They want survivors to, for some reason, masochistically continue to suffer after a million and one nerfs over the years in the hopes that...oh....maybe in one in ten games you can escape.
How is that good for the longevity of the game?
OR:
Survivor side has too many exploitable abilities with coordination that make it impossible to balance, with absolutely zero downside or penalty. On top of that, more and more killer strategies keep getting gimped to the point that the dreaded T&C are mathematically their most viable play by a large margin when the situation presents, with rng sometimes forcing their hand. The devs keep doubling down on the chaotic variables in the game trying to balance one another with averages instead of actually putting thought and consideration into their changes and design philosophies, and its only frustrating all parties involved the more time goes on. Every game is inherently going to be unfair and potentially unwinnable with the sheer amount of free radicals that can completely break games in one direction or the other.
Its not a killer or survivor issue, its a game design one. There is a lot of decay that needs to be excised asap, and people are constantly fighting over the symptoms while ignoring the causes.
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its not really a hill to die on. Your argument has more about ease of use than actual ability. There is no argument that old DH had the best skill floor to be used disproportionately well.
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@Marc_123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3071244#Comment_3071244
Now think the new 40k possible + 100% Flan + Maybe 100% Killer incentive + sometimes flans or BPS from other players...
its technically less than it was before, since you also had BBQ not only offsetting the "role in need" bonus, but at max stacks it effectively made the cap 64k while giving a 2x growth rate on each point within that base equation. All gains for cakes/BPS/etc are always additive, so you're still at an up to +500% cap there.
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@VcatoV86 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3071126#Comment_3071126
This 100%.
For some reason, the developers are so afraid of messing with SWF that they continue to nerf solo q into the ground. Why?
In my killer games, I know that I will occasionally encounter a SWF group that is so sweaty it makes the game boring. I accept that these will happen from time to time, and I move on unphased. Why? Because they are so rare.
Survivors have the opposite experience in solo q. Getting a game where your team works together and you are not tunneled/camped ad nauseum is rare. So we almost chase that high because the rest of the games are so toxic and boring.
And now the devs have decided to further imbalance this fundamental issue.
1 survivor isn't supposed to be able to do the work of 4. All you can do is play your best and hope your allies are too, and that their best is at least reasonable. Bad teammates in solo is yet another of the millions of layers of rng variables to this game, for better or worse.
Its why i focus on improving more than escaping. If I keep consistently getting better, i'm able to offset more and more of the bad play from teammates... and while it'll never be to the point i can solo carry ever single game, it has been helping my survival rate considerably.
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probably faster than is humanly possible, and there probably won't be any checks in place to look for that either.
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@drsoontm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3071145#Comment_3071145
Showing prestige is a mistake, plain and simple.
I have no particular issue playing against SWFs : when they don't gen-rush they are often giving me funny or interesting games. (So, put that into any potential "bias" from me.) But if SWFs are displayed, they'll be dodged 24/7 and that will not be good for the game.
the point was their inconsistency in logic. I don't even want to weigh in on the subject, just making an observation in as impartial of a manner as possible since it was bound to be brought up with how contradictory their reasonings are for why things are(n't) changed.
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@Dead_Harder said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3071267#Comment_3071267
Oh sure but she is also pretty common and she is not the only one who doesnt really care about SB. Most high tier killers dont really mind it at all imo.
When used properly they can extend chases between loops, without even using a resource to do so. You can downplay their value that you see, but that doesn't change their potential to be what adds minutes to chases, which was people's biggest complaint about dead hard. Its also why Blight and Nurse specifically are affected less than the rest of the cast, they're good killers for gap closing between multiple loops while also being able to take advantage of catching up while the survivor is at risk of being out positioned. Some other killers like Dredge and Oni also have situational variables than can make or break their ability to offset the distance at the time. None of that has changed.
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@Dead_Harder said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3071216#Comment_3071216
Not gonna lie chief, when i see some one use a 99%ed SB or do a cool lithe play i get absolutely filled with joy.
Because i know that when i catch up to them and get a hit in the next 2 seconds as nurse it will be that much more satisfying and devastating. Couldnt really do that with DH, had to play around it and even that it would still usually act as a 3rd health state.
do you just not understand that being vs nurse is a situational factor in itself? She is an absolute outlier to 99% of the game's design.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3071186#Comment_3071186
SB is not uniformly better, it's situationally better..... Which you agree with. We agree about all the stuff with minor nitpicking.
All exhaustion perks are literally designed to be situational, and my point has consistently been that the situation DH required was less limiting than all other exhaustion perks, which is why the change to it is good. There was never a problem with the other exhaustion perks, while your reasoning started with:
@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3070979#Comment_3070979
Nobody cares about sprint burst or lithe, this is fallacious thinking that folks trot out to pretend like old dead hard was somehow equivalent to those perks. It wasn't, it was miles better in every way.
To which I reiterate: DH wasn't better, it had a much more accessable skill floor. You needed less skill to get good performance out of it, while other perks like SB and Lithe have always gotten equal or better value when used very well. They just needed a lot more strategy and planning to get said value. Doesn't make them worse, just harder to use.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3071129#Comment_3071129
I'm not understanding your point.
SB has always been good when used properly, a big part of why it was less used by DH was simply because DH was too strong in regards to both its skill required and limitations of use. Someone said SB is better, and you shut them down for it. I was giving a common scenario of when SB gives value when DH gave zero.
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Imagine getting prestige ratings visible, which mean nothing with the perk unlock changes, and people using it as a way of picking and choosing teammates.
...but killers can't see if there's an swf in the group because they might lobby shop.
This has been an obligatory elephant in the room us vs them argument, feel free to ignore it.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3071086#Comment_3071086
It's literally not. This is a meme.
Would you rather use SB to deny an instadown and reach a loop, or get downed and never get to use DH? There are certainly situations where DH isn't supposed to be preferable.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3071072#Comment_3071072
Both of those perks have activation requirements more onerous than simply being injured. There's not always going to be a vault nearby and if you want full value out of sprint burst you're going to be walking and tacitly doing gens slower for at least part of the match. Moreover both of those perks are immediately apparent when they have it. You don't have to hug anyone for five seconds to see whether or not they're gonna to sprint burst away. Nobody is lithing through traps or harpoons. They're just not a problem in any respect.
exactly? every exhaustion perk has a situational requirement, the problem with DH's was that its requirement was nowhere near as limiting as the others while still having the power to completely extend chases. its practically an extra health state for being injured, and its current version requires appropriate skill for something so powerful with no tile limitations.
SB and Lithe especially get tons of good usage when people actually learn to use them, and a lot of people who relied on DH's lack of limitations are just going to have to learn, or get good at making reads with what is essentially now a parry.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3070979#Comment_3070979
Nobody cares about sprint burst or lithe, this is fallacious thinking that folks trot out to pretend like old dead hard was somehow equivalent to those perks. It wasn't, it was miles better in every way.
Not as good, but thats kinda the point. DH was better than it was supposed to be, and was normalized to require more skill for its high reward. Lithe can still get similar chase extensions (arguibly better ones) when used at the right time while looping, and SB can prevent many killers from getting the first hit or even being stored and used midchase for a similar effect that Lithe gets. These changes were to hurt the skill floor, but the skill ceiling remains completely untouched.
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BHVR is extremely selective about their accessibility changes. The amount of things they ignore makes any discussion on the topic inevitably become countless us vs them arguments, sadly.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3070838#Comment_3070838
The update is definitely a huge reduction in the grind for me personally. I went from having every killer at Prestige 1 with 30-40 perks yesterday to all my killers having every single teachable perk at level 3 today. It's like 100 free bloodwebs worth of perks on every single killer. The 20k per Prestige in this thread is insignificant compared to the ocean of bonus perks I just got.
I had to keep going back and forth with killers on whether they were close enough to 170 perks to justify grinding to keep my addons, or nuking everything to p1 them for the instant p3. Characters who had the majority of their grind before the "2 perks after 40" rule scaled with the catchup considerably worse than ones who weren't progressed until after, and on killers like huntress i'd much rather not lose all those addons to make sure her perks are t3 for everyone.
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@dugman said:
Yeah they reduced the from 50k to 20k but why they kept the cost for Prestige at all I have no idea. 🤷♂️ They must think it serves some purpose or they wouldn’t have gone out of their way to add it in the first place let alone keep it in the game when they had a chance to remove it, but I haven’t seen a dev explanation for why it’s there so who knows?
They are extremely bad at managing player retention. They unironically use the grind as a crutch to keep people playing rather than making their progression feel meaningful enough on its own. This update basically solidified that with how their grind reduction isn't even a reduction in some respects, its trading one grind for another. Most people would have been better off if they just kept things as is and removed perk tiers, and it would have taken longer than the game's life to even catch back up... Instead we got this convoluted system of catchup mechanics with arbitrary thresholds and arbitrary BP sacrifices on top while not even addressing the absurd amount of waste in the bloodweb itself.
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@Zexbunny said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3070653#Comment_3070653
Lol gen slowdown perks heavily nerfed? Really? Combine pop with call of brine and overcharge, and generators regress at an outrageous speed. Only ruin got nerfed hard. But it's unnecessary with everything else killers have and can combine.
Overcharge got walked back to the point of basically requiring the Call of Brine combo, even reducing efficiency beyond base value at its start and taking 12 seconds to catch up to not using the perk. Pop is a perfect example of manipulative math because people still don't understand the difference between flat and prorated values, Corrupt deactivates early if you get a down (not even hook) before it expires, Ruin just yeets itself out of existence if it manages to survive longer than 1 survivor, and pain resonance no longer gives info/synergizes with DMS. Oh, still needs scourge hooks too.
Literally Call of Brine, a perk locked behind a crap tier recent licensed killer, is the only gen slowdown perk that didn't suffer from the changes.
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@Ryuhi said:
just a friendly reminder that you disintegrate a minimum of 2mil bp in a characters climb to prestige 100 for absolutely no valid reason, on top of the who knows how many millions of unwanted items/addons/offerings/etc along the way. Seems hyperbolic until you realize thats for one character.
actually, lets take this up a notch. 100 prestiges is a lot, right? lets try to be practical and only go off of up to 3, shall we? now lets look at this from the perspective of a new player...
There are currently 28 killers, and 31 survivors. each p0-p3 costs 60k in invisible, spontaneously combusting BP tribute that you don't even get crappy brown addons, items, or offerings for. if you were to only go for getting all killer perks, this would cost about 1,680,000 BP being given as tribute to the aether. for survivors it would be 1,860,000! combined you'd be looking at 3,540,000 in BP that might as well just not exist in the first place.
and again, this is on top of the countless number of garbage nodes that siphon BP in the process.
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@HectorBrando said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3070524#Comment_3070524
Its also the fringe case that happens almost never and "people are concerned"? nobody in the forum has complained about this except this thread which even claims "nobody talks about this" because very few people see this as a problem but hey, dont let that stop you from complaining about everything.
BT is not a second chance perk, is an anticamping perk designed to fight against a strategy, same as SBFL for the healing tech and if you are gonna go about perks turned into basekit buffs... didnt Killers get 2 free stacks of SBFL? This should help you against the 1 case per week you get heal teching at the Exit Gates, on a sidenote, Im up for getting rid of basekit 5 seconds BT if we also get rid of every single change we got this patch too.
almost never bruh ive personally done it 5 times in the past few weeks and i hardly ever play, and only do solo at that.
Anyway enjoy your mental gymnastics, you very clearly are unwilling to take any other perspective than your own.
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@StardustSpeedway said:
I just had a match about 20 minutes ago where I loaded in and this hacking Nea finished all 5 gens and insta escaped all within 5 seconds of the match starting.
games like this should not need a report process that takes 6 times as long as the actual match did. Its honestly kinda terrifying how few sanity checks there are in this game.