RaSavage42
RaSavage42
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It's cause BHVR doesn't know why we use these perks... They just gather the numbers of people using certain perks and change them
Honestly at this point I would rather them just make certain perks unselectable/ unusable until they can figure out why certain perks are being used
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There's a bigger reason as to why those perks are considered weak.... Technician for example only works if the Killer isn't observant and if the Survivor misses a skillcheck... Beast Of Pray only works if the Killer is in chase for an extended amount of time... Both of those perks only work if one fails...
Other perks are decent but we can only take 4 perks with us... Surveillance and Unrelenting are examples of this
Other perks are more about getting stacks... Autodidact, Potential Energy, Corrective Action and Dying Light
Gearhead should've been left alone... IMO
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If I see a Killer have a hard time I will let myself die in the end
If I see Survivors having a hard time... I will allow then to reset and go the Gens
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@BlueHorkew said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3377636#Comment_3377636
For me B tier is still good on some builds, they are good but are either a bit niche or carry risks. For example Blood Echo is good on Killers like Plague and Legion or Undying needing another strong Hex to be valuable
C and lower are perks that are not good, imo.
D is basically useless or hurtful
Then why is Oppression so low??? just use Surveillance with it
It's just like Undying in a way
Blood Echo being good on 2 Killers doesn't mean it's a good perk... Just like Iron Maiden
Also why is Retribution so high... There are better Aura Reading perks
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There's a lot of perks in the B and C tiers... That says a lot
But the way you put them together is decent I guess
I would put Whispers into A tier... but I use it a lot so yea
Undying should go into C tier... Cause it needs another Hex to go with it
Blood Echo belongs in C tier... How often does it work and do you use other perks to make it work???
Oppression should go into B tier... What other perk can cause multiple Gens to regress or give Survivors an unexpected skillcheck... but it does need Surveillance to be better So I give you that
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More gamemodes.... No HUD, 2 Killers, Perkless, 1V1 chase
An actual ranked mode and an unranked mode
A real Spectator cam (free cam), A Map for the spectator to look at
Maps need to go under the microscope...
Gen efficiency needs to be looked at (numbers need adjusting)
They also could start to limit how many similar perks are brought in (Gen regression for Killers and Second chance perks for Survivor)
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So what was the point of this thread...
Started as a complaint ridden mess... then it went to "having fun"
Yes... Both sides are at fault for what's going on but not taking the blame for it
Maps and Gens are just a couple of issues
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I mean yea... I would use it just so I get a feel for what it does good and what it's bad at
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It could be a Perk... with conditions that need to be met
Deactivates when the last Gen is done... so on and so forth
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The game may have changed how Bloodwebs appear... by making things cheaper and the prestige system in general... they must have realized that once a player has all of the perks they will target Items and addons starting with the best
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I mean which Scourge Hook perk is used most.... Pain Resonance
And which Boon perk is used most... Circle Of Healing
Trying to get more perks for either need to have these in mind
Plus Circle Of Healing is put in a place away from the Killer and/or objectives
And Scourge hook perks are RNG based
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The issue I see is their running out of ideas for those two
Scourge Hook perks: We have... Gen regression, Aura reading, Gen slowdown and faster hook timers
Boons: Healing, Faster movement, Aura hiding and Picking oneself up from the dying state
What else can they do given the limits they set for themselves
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I mean sure why not... but Survivors don't do bones cause Killers don't use Hexes much anymore
But Survivors bring Boons so it's not worth cleansing Dull totems... So it doesn't matter how many points they get
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Pig: Call Of Brine, Eruption, Corrupt and Whispers
I would rate this a 4/10 if I'm being honest
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Getting Rank 1 back when it was a thing
Also not playing for a year
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Yes I agree that the game broken but it's not perk related or strategy related
It's the Gen progression VS Gen regression... At it's base Survivors get 1.0-2.2 charges per second while Killers get .25 charges per second
Now think about it for a second (not reacting)... Why is Camping and Tunneling a thing... because getting one Survivor out means less Gen progression, heals and unhooks (1.0 charges per second on Gens, 16 second heals -I don't know the specifics- and another body that the Killer has to worry about
We run certain perks to buff our weakness or strengthen our strengths... Gen regression/ Aura reading perks for Killers and Chase/ Gen progression for Survivor
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Most perks need others to make stronger
Some are just outshined by others
Some are counterintuitive to Killers powers
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Probably bad luck... But it's more like where you live and time of day you play
Maybe take a break from playing the game... Like a day or two then come back
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The only change I want to see is Call Of Brine losing it's information and putting it on Surveillance
Overcharge it's either let the Gen regress or tap it and get the skillcheck...
Dead Hard is more complicated then it appears... I would rather see what happens if the other Exhaustion perks getting buffed
Prove Thyself doesn't need to be changed... but base progression needs to be looked at
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I wish they didn't change the perk
It doesn't do much anymore as others have said
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@Mytea said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3368968#Comment_3368968
did you even read your own first sentence for yourself? how can survivors tunnel? survivors aren't chasing the killer nor killing them. do you even understand the concept of this game? so no...tunneling doesn't happen on both sides. it only happens on the killer side because some toxic person decides to go for just one person alone.
i can understand a killer who has to deal with toxic survivors who want to simply annoy the killer and nothing else. tunneling in this case is acceptable in my opinion. you just fight fire with fire or poison with poison. if you tunnel without any reason though that's inacceptable.
you're saying that camping and tunneling has to do with gen progression or regression simply because the killer fears that gens pop quickly one after another, but how can this killer know that? can you look into the future? maybe the survivors you are facing are beginners, inexperienced, badly-coordinated, not a swf or do bad mistakes. how can you know that multiple gens will pop quickly after each other? correct! you can't know that!
if i run corrupt intervention, deadlock and no way out i can delay the game long enough to get at least one kill even against the sweatiest and most toxic swf groups out there in dbd. you can also run an endgame build if you don't want to deal with generators all together. then you can just ignore them and work towards endgame. you will get at least 1 kill and don't have to deal with gens nor have to face camp or tunnel. just by running rancor and noed for example (if you don't play as a one-shot killer) you can simply secure at least one kill at the end of the game. a second kill is pretty likely if you run no way out for example. so what do you care about generators. even if the balance between regression and progression is bad you could still get 1 or 2 kills in a match you are totally screwed over without even having to face camp or tunnel a single time.
these perks (reassurance, kinship, deceisive strike and off the record) are simply there to prevent unfair matches and by unfair matches in this context i mean killers face camping one single survivor or tunneling just one survivor out of the game early on. this player doesn't have fun at all in that match and if you really think you are treated unfair due to way too quick generator repairs then you treat this one survivor exactly the way you feel in that match. how is that fair? do you really think if you treat one single survivor badly you will feel better for being gen rushed? i highly doubt that this is the case!
IF you decide to face camp a single survivor and these survivors don't have reassurance or kinship you will at best get only one kill. how is that a win on your part? standing there face camping one single survivor the whole game makes you feel as if you did something special as if you played very well? if that's good gameplay for you then you really have to switch the game because this is a competitive alike game and standing around doing nothing has nothing to do with being good in that game. it's like somebody would have given you a trophy for 1st place in a marathon even though you didn't even walk 1 meter. do you really think you would have earned that trophy? is that your idea of fairness? i hope not!
you think multiple generators popping at once is unfair and therefore you face camp a survivor, but prove thyself or 4x bnps is okay for you? do you even listen to yourself? the only reason generators pop so rapidly is due to these items and perks! face camping or tunneling one survivor won't slow down this repair progress nor will it give you more kills. the only time you will get more kill than the face camped survivor is when the other survivors try to unhook this camped survivor and end up being slugged and/or hooked, too. if all other 3 survivors did generators while you were busy playing with your balls in front of the hooked survivor then you would never get more than 1 kill especially not if the survivors run reassurance and kinship.
i don't want to be forced to run these perks though just because there some dumb idiots out there who want to ruin the complete gameplay experience of other ppl by simply face camping or tunneling them. it really feels like i'm the only normal person playing this game having the foresight of seeing the crucial problem of this game.
Survivor Tunneling is staying on a Gen until finished... this game is asym not symmetric stop thinking of what one side does and equate that to what the other side does
Killers don't know what Survivors are doing... but they will base it on previous experience... just like Survivors
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Either myself or the Map played...
Myself- I play a lot more Killer then Survivor at this point (well going to be... I haven't played in a year so really hoping I can play the game again)
Map- some maps (maybe more now... cause again I haven't played) I just can't get around with the Killers I play
So yea... If Survivors win it's mostly my fault for not doing something more so then the Map
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Yes Killer players have a lot to complain about
Gen speeds, Maps
Dead Hard- extends chase and gives Survivors a reactionary perk
Toolboxes- decrease the time needed to complete a Gen
COH and medkits- decrease the time needed to heal
EGC only starting once the Gate(s) are opened
Base progression VS. regression being what it is
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So you want Killers who go for 12 hooks... Not caring about Gens and Health states
And have the game to end with T-Bagging and clicking
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Maybe... but it might have be to tested first... Just my feeling on it
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The roar happens at the end not at the beginning so that would help just a little
But then again she has Addons that do just as much... so putting that on her Ambush would be too much... also seeing how the game is played that wouldn't make sense and the Survivors will throw a fit (just look at Eruption)
I don't like that last idea though... plus it's another thing that can be messed up
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Those sound like entitled Survivors... of course if they all escape then you'll get "trash Killer" "play better" "give up and quit"
All because they didn't get to bully you
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I feel the same... Played just about the same time as you
But that is a lot of other games that are "old"
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IDK if this has been said
But... They needed to get Survivors on the same page before changes can be made to Killers
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Pig was my first Killer... and by far my favorite
But that being said... Huntress, Spirit and Hag are my other go too Killer
Huntress- Throwing hatchets is fun... and it's something different
Spirit- Phasing mindgames are pretty fun IMO
Hag- Strategic play is fun as well...
And the others are playing off of that
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3 Gens are a possibility on a lot of Maps
Gen Aura reading perks- may help those that get tunnel vision but that doesn't help the fact that Killers can force it is another thing
Gen progression perks- may help but that depends on how they are used
Chase perks- always a decent chose but as soon as the killer knows what perks you are using they may avoid you and focus on the 3 Gen they have
All in all... it's more of what perks and gameplay choices that are made even before the game starts
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@Mytea said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3368101#Comment_3368101
it seems you don't read properly. since i have said i play both roles i have of course seen survivors stay on a gen the whole time until it's finished. if the killer doesn't interrupt them then what else should they do? stand around doing nothing? this thread is about fixing the game towards a fair gameplay and not just about one part of it. i'm not taking sides on this one. i will not just support killers so they can camp and tunnel even more.
camping and tunneling just has something to do with gen progression or regression in 1 of 10 cases. in all other 9 cases killers camp for whatever reason because they have fun to annoy survivors, because they had a bad day, because they think survivors are favored generally, because they weren't good enough, because they play bubba and just want to abuse their killer etc. there are all kinds of reasons why killers face camp/tunnel and i can speak from experience that it has almost never to do with gen speed.
when i get face camped at 5 gens it has nothing to do with gen speed. if i get tunneled right off the hook at 5 gens it has nothing to do with gen speed. so how does this have to do with gen regression or progression? exactly! it's not connected to it! gen regression and progression is a whole different topic in dbd. this is about fairness. killers aren't treated unfair if the gens fly by. you can take gen protection or regression perks with you just the way ppl say survivors should take tunnel/camp perks with them, BUT there aren't any strong gen repair perks on survivor side except for prove thyself and again this perk only works when multiple survivors work on a generator. there is not a single other good gen repair perk for survivors except prove thyself and that's a limited perk. if you run discordance you can counter that perk.
no...having these perks basekit won't screw over killers who don't tunnel because you don't lose anything as a killer if you don't tunnel. if you never tunnel and go for different survivors even if it swap between survivor a and survivor b the whole time these perks will make no difference at all. ds and off the record only work until you perform a conspicuous action and if you want to help your team then you have to perform conspicuous actions. furthermore they are deactivated in the endgame and ds is most likely used beforehand anyways and can only have been used if you as a killer tunneled that person. so it's your own fault. reassurance only works in close proximity to a hook and the survivor running that perk has to stop whatever they are doing to activate this perk on the hook. while you are camping you could have done many other productive things like chasing the other survivors off their generators, regress said generators, protect said generators and if the hooked person gets unhooked you can go back and chase the unhooker instead. after you downed them you can go for the previously hooked person again if you want to. that wouldn't be tunneling and you wouldn't have to deal with off the record or ds, too. kinship works only in struggle phase and only when another survivor is in close proximity to the hook. this perk also only gives you value if the killer is face camping you and that's not something a killer should aim for. if you played the game normally you would always get at least a black pip in a match as killer. if you are face camped 1st hook and die 1st hook as survivor though you will definitely get a depip. if you get tunneled out of the game as the only person being chased you will definitely lose a pip. so how is this fair for this survivor? do you think they have fun dying on 1st hook because nobody can rescue them or because they got tunneled out of the game early on? if you think this is fun then you should play survivor and see for yourself.
getting rid of 4x brand new parts, styptic or syringe wouldn't be a good thing? you complain about gen regression being too low, but the real threat comes from these items actually. if you got a swf team that completes a gen in literally 5 seconds with 4 brand new parts it's no fun as killer. if you have to shred through 4, 5 or even 6 health states as killer it's no fun. if the survivor had mettle of man, syringe + styptic, dead hard, the usual 2 health states and maybe even a well time adrenaline to the end you are screwed for. that's no fun at all and not even nurse or blight can do much about it. they can shred through health states quickly, but if they are hit by all these items, addons and perks there is not much that even they can do. i have seen this in action too many time as killer. so i know what i'm speaking of. it's no fun at all having to deal with this. furthermore balancing killers would be way easier if they had just base addons. you could easily increase the movement speed of a killer, improve their power etc. if no addons are in play. if addons are in play you always have to take these into consideration. if you had a double range nurse you couldn't increase the base range of nurses blinks for example because killers with double range would have a huge advantage. you wouldn't be able to increase the base movement speed of huntress because her iri addon would screw this over. you wouldn't be able to increase the movement speed of plague because her iri addon would screw things over. you can't make myers stronger base because tombstone is in play and if myers was way stronger generally tombstone myers would most likely be much stronger than even nurse or blight. so yes removing addons/items would make balancing waaaaay easier!
so again face camping and tunneling has nothing to do with perks, items or addons. it has to do with how bhvr designed their game initially. if nobody in your team has reassurance or you don't run kinship and you get face camped you can do nothing except for either giving up (dcing), killing yourself on hook or buying your team time to escape while they can do generators. though this is still no pleasant experience for the face camped survivor at all. that's one reason why there are so many dcs nowadays in dbd. in pretty much 9 of my 10 matches while i'm playing either side i see at least 1 dc in the match. is it fun as a killer to wait for 10 to 30 minutes for a match to just see all survivors dc? would that be fun for you as a killer because ultimately survivors should do that if the killer is face camping or tunneling. if all survivors constantly dc'd when a killer face camped or tunneled there would not be a single normal match and you would sit in the queue constantly. is that what you wish for as a killer? is that fun to you?
No I did read it properly.... you are saying that Survivors don't Tunnel... but you have seen it happening (so it does happen on both sides)
So the Killer can't do the same thing?
Also the thing about Camping and Tunneling it is related to Gen progression and Gen regression... The Killer will Camp and Tunneling at 5 Gens means that they don't want to deal with Gens popping quickly and Gen regression doesn't do much even with 4 Gen perks
So it's more like 9 out of 10 times the Killer decides to Camp and Tunnel (but you play both sides so it should've been more clear
Yes it does... Being Camped/Tunneled at 5 Gens mean the Killer doesn't have to worry about chasing 1 and having 3 others on 1-3 Gens (so the team loses 1.0 charges per second, 16 second heals, safe unhooks)
No the game was made for hide and seek... but then it evolved to what it is now
There are more reasons for DC's then just Camping and Tunneling (It could be the Killer played, Map played, Getting caught first, not wanting to be killed first and specifically not wanting to die to an RBT)
Camping and Tunneling is because of Perks, Items and addons being used
Survivors bodyblock after being unhooked... forcing the Killer to hit that Survivor and/or Chasing that Survivor... Survivors that bring BNP's can only do one Gen fast but the rest of them go slower then that (so it's up to the Survivor in how they want to use their BNP)
Prove Thyself is being used cause of the 10 charges added to Gens...
And again adding more perks to basekit will only further the "meta"... cause of this BHVR will have to make even more changes to the game
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So then Killers may or may not use it
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They want Killers to use the Hit and Run
Cause then they can get more BP's and all escape
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They didn't slowdown the Gens speed... all they did was added more charges to complete it
Yes they do take longer to complete but that's due to the increase in charges needed... not because they actually slowed down progression
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@Mytea said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3365463#Comment_3365463
i'm stating all this because camping and tunneling is something killers do and not survivors. this discussion is not about evening out both parties. that's a whole different story. this discussion is about perks that help survivors with unfavorable situations. reassurance, kinship, off the record, ds as basekit would all prevent face camping and/or tunneling. they have got nothing to do with gen speed. they just ensure that you are not force to hang on a hook for 3 minutes without being able to do anything besides that because the killer stands right in front of you. they ensure that you don't get chased right after you got unhooked. basekit bt and even taking ds as a perk of the 4 perk slots doesn't ensure you don't get tunneled. especially strong killers will shred through your health states even if you have these two "securities". in addition to that ds and the protection of off the record wear off if you perform a conspicuous action which is almost everything in the game. so having them basekit wouldn't make survivors stronger at all. the ONLY situation they would survivors stronger is by toxic swfs taking hits aggressively just to ######### you up and interrupt your chase of another survivor, BUT these toxic swfs will do that nonetheless. if these perks are basekit or not...they will still try to annoy killers.
giving no way out basekit was a compensation of good will in case killers might say all these perks basekit is too much and once again these perks don't give survivors an advantage. they are purely existing to ensure you don't get camped or tunneled, but as i have already said multiple times you still get camped or tunneled IF you have these perks equipped. so having them equipped is NOT enough! that's why they should be basekit to make killers fear these perks because the ds nerf (even if it was just to weaken meta perks) made it kinda useless and i'm running ds and off the record almost every game btw. they aren't enough!
again this discussion isn't about gen repair speed or gen regression speed. i know myself that mostly survivors repair gens way faster than survivors can regress them. that's why i have stated that i play both sides. i know the experience of gen rushing survivors while playing killer and also being camped/tunneled as survivor. both situations are annoying. erruption, corrupt and pop got nerfed. there is nothing we can do about it though. especially not in this discussion though you still have to remember they were nerfed except for erruption due to being a meta perk that every killer used just like ds, iron will, dh etc. on survivor side. so ultimately these nerfs have nothing to do with the initial topic of my discussion.
i want to reduce the incidents of annoying gameplay where one person gets face camped all game long or tunneled out of the game right after being unhooked. i don't take dumb decisions of survivors into consideration like unhooking right in front of the killer for example because this has nothing to do with the actual problem of survivors getting face camped for 3 minutes or being tunneled all game long.
furthermore by removing items/addons (yes not just survivor items, but also killer addons) balancing the game (yes also gen regression and progression speeds) will be much easier just like balancing killers all together. the gap between strong and weak killers could be closed way easier because items or addons wouldn't play a role anymore in all the statistics of a killer. there wouldn't be a huge gap between double range nurse compared to no range nurse. there wouldn't be a huge gap between tombstone myers and a normal myers. myers for example could easily be made stronger if there were strong addons like tombstone rewarding for doing nothing that whole match. no strong items on survivors side would mean no more 4x brand new parts = no extreme gen rushing especially in combination with gen repair perks. also i didn't even think removing all items/addons would be necessary. bhvr could keep a base version of every item/addon with low impact on the game, but still creating a bit of variety like keeping all brown toolboxes, medkits, flashlights etc. all this would also play into a more fair match not only for survivors, but also for killers.
everybody who disagrees with that doesn't seek a fairer gameplay in dbd.
So you haven't seen a Survivor stay on a Gen until it's finished?
Apparently this discussion is about adding more perks basekit not about fixing the game... (-.-)
Yes this is about Gen progression VS Gen regression... why would a even thinking Killer Camp and Tunnel?
Giving all of those perks will screw over those Killer that don't tunnel... Survivors have already gotten used to having OTR
Getting rid of Items will not be a good decision... just saying
If progression and regression were to be more even then the only Camping and Tunneling would only be toxic (not saying it lightly)
We need to stop asking for perks to become basekit... it only will further "meta" perks
Also Tunneling does come from healing speed...
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I have to agree with Vulnerable...
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Legion:
Addons- can be whatever you feel you need (again the beauty of addons... LOL)
Perks- Again I would go with perks you feel comfortable with... but I can't remember what I run
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Plague:
Addons- can be whatever you feel you need (the beauty of addons... LOL)
Perks- I would go with perks you feel comfortable with... but I forgot what perks I usually run
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They would make 3 Genning impractical but not impossible... while making her even worse
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Depends... Some of those Killers are in my rotation...
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Not using a perk... but opening up a random locker and finding a Survivor
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So a Killer that more for selling skins is bad but Survivors having all of the cosmetics for whatever reason is bad???????
And by slack... what do you mean?
The fact that the Killer is Meh (apparently)
Perks are either Meh or bad (apparently)
Maps may look good but do they play any better
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Simple and fair enough....
I don't know much cause I haven't played in a while
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3366196#Comment_3366196
Probably. Pop and ruin were meta and neither of which were particularly good at 3 gens
We also had perks like BBQ which encouraged constant chases
Cool... so we can start asking for reversions???
Cause I think that if they backtracked on some of the changes it would be better in the long run
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So if they didn't do the 6.1.0 would it be any different?
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Ok so.... maybe adjusting progression and regression would help this just a little bit
Cause giving Survivors 1.0-2.1 charges per second (1-3 survivors on a Gen cause 1 is being chased) plus perks, toolboxes and hitting great skillchecks
And Killers having .25 charges per second and 2.5% plus perks
Doing the math would be hard for me right now... but the point still stands
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@philward1953 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3366046#Comment_3366046
I do agree. Killers need to know they DO have options, especially when 5 gens are left. That could maybe help.
I won't say that doing that will solve all of the issues but it will take care of the biggest issues
But if that doesn't work then adding more to MMR would help to a lesser degree (like Gens left and Hooks)
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To make Tunneling less of an option they need to adjust Gen progression and regression
Everything else is too much to say the least
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That's just one reason to not be a side main...
Continue to play both sides (whatever your preference is)