Mytea
Mytea
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i support this and was about to create an own entry. it's definitely a hassle with so little fragments as a reward. when i suggested bhvr should change the tome system because it took way too long for casual players to reach lvl 100 in a tome i didn't think they would lower the fragments even further.
there is actually no sense in completing the milestones currently because they only reward 25 %, but take like 100 repairs/heals/matches etc. that's WAY too much effort for WAY too little reward. also i just had to play 10 matches in order to gain the last few tome lvls today because i didn't have any more quests available. that's not how it should be. i mostly only got 5 fragments for a match even when i got multiple iridescent emblems. -
@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3472788#Comment_3472788
Maybe because I am active on this forum? You can use search engine for that.
You really used ticket system to send suggestions?
Those tickets are saved under your account so that would be easy to prove. So doubt that.
Of course i used support tickets. that's what the "feedback & suggestions" function is for! i don't know why you are suprised about that if you are so "active on this forum".
well it took some time to go through all of my support tickets, but here are some quotes:
"first i had to play vs a hook camping and tunneling wraith which resulted in a 4k. then i played vs a hook camping and tunneling pig with both of her toxic op purple addons to reduce the death timer by 20 secs and increase the time to search pig boxes. we had 3 head explosions and the 4th died normally. then i had a match vs a hook camping and tunneling nurse at ormond. all of us 4 died in the end because jonah gave up after i risked my life to rescue him even though the nurse was hard camping. the nea, claudette and me had no chance even though i prolonged the game as long as possible. the game resulted in a 4k."
"addons are carrying killers through games and it's especially annoying when they are already immensely overpowered like nurse. both nurses could just catch us because both of them used both range addons for nurse."
"it's hella annoying to see 4 toolboxes (with brand-new parts), 4 purple medkits or 4 flashlights."
"losing pips because of this ######### on both sides for either gen rushing toxic survivors or hook camping and tunneling killers is extremely annoying. as i have stated already multiple times killers should be punished for hook camping and tunneling. the new anti-camping perk won't be enough. almost every single survivor will run this perk because it's definitely needed. i didn't have a single normal match vs a normal killer today that didn't camp or tunnel. the tactic of just doing gens while this one person being camped has no fun is also totally lame! i'm altruistic and i don't want to leave teammates hanging or dying for nothing. this new perk will help some, but won't change this because there will always be one person needed to refresh the hook timer. that will only work in a swf and swfs mostly don't have problems in this game because they can't perfectly coordinate each other's actions. the problem is for solo queue players like me whose teammates mostly don't know what everybody else is doing. killers definitely need to be punished for hook camping or tunneling and the icons plus more for solo queue survivors is definitely needed as soon as possible!"
"i have just had yet another match in which other survivors and me were camped to oblivion. especially the artist and bubba are extremely good on it. my last match was vs a hardcore face camping artist on the garden of joy map. she could literally hook somebody up the main building and there was nothing others or me could do. i took a hit to unhook and went down at the exact same hook upstairs. i have tried to use reassurance the (ANTI-CAMPING perk), but it didn't work because it's ######### limited to only 6 meters. who in hell can get close to 6 meters without at least taking a hit or going down vs bubba for example?! increase the distance to 16 meters at least so basement camping or face camping situations like this in which the killer has to do nothing except camping the stairs the whole game long doesn't work! you should be at least able to use reassurance for 16 meters and from upstairs the shack while the killer is either camping downstairs or the pallet/stairs/window upstairs. you should be at least able to prolong the hook phase for this exact scenario! what else reassurance is for if not something like this? wasn't reassurance intended to be a anti-camping perk? i barely get any use out of it and you wanted to get the players into using perks they like instead of perks they were forced to play due to the meta. now i'm using reassurance and i can't make use out of it 99 % of the matches due to its range limit."
"not to mention that face camping and tunneling reached its personally high recently. i have got almost no match without a face camper or tunneler. the match before the face camping artist match was vs a hardcore tunneling onryo on the artist map!"
"i got camped and died 1st hook just like another person in my team and the killer got away with this."
"campers are still there. tunnelers are still there."
"you still lose pips even if you had a dc or got camped and died 1st hook."
"when will you finally do something about hardcore camping and tunneling in your game? you seem to not care at all."
"i depip due to hardcore camping and tunneling."
"i have lost a ######### pip due to a hardcore camping and tunneling."
these are some of the support tickets i have created in terms of player feedback & suggestions!
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3463254#Comment_3463254
Requested where?
For fun, show me where you suggested self-unhooking mechanic as anti camping feature.
Rest of them are generic suggestions, where tons of people asked for it, so 0 credit for you.
you think i save all of my support tickets in a text file for record or what? also if the rest is "generic suggestions" made by "tons of people" where do you have got this from? any proof on that? did you check everybody's account and their support tickets to know how many people and who suggested all these "generic suggestions"? i highly doubt it! once again one of these people who criticizes somebody for something they then did themselves.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3462375#Comment_3462375
You believe they did those changes because of you? It's not like it was suggested b dozens of players, right?
i have never said it was only due to me, but i played a leading role on suggesting these due to the amount of times i have requested these changes.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
1) they should start with weakest killers. Issue is that you will never get them on equal level. Their design won't allow it (killer power).
Top killers are getting away with it, because they are not easy to play -> lower kill rates. Freddy was nowhere near is good as top 3, but he was really easy, that's why he got on over 65% kill rate and look how it went for him. Same with Pig, in reality she is one of weakest killers, but she has power where even bad player can be lucky and get free kills.
There is lot of killers that wouldn't be hard to fix with just number change, or some addon partly basekit, but that will never get them on top killer level.
2) they are working on face camping fix, but based on what you said you shouldn't mind tunneling, you basically get only chase while being tunneled. Tunneling is also something you can't fix right now. It's simple: most killers are not able to go for 12 hook game, they need to get someone out before they get on 2 gens, unless they go for alternative and that's 3-gen. Every anti tunneling system I saw could be either abused by survivors or useless.
3) that's boring to have only base-kit everything.
Some addons should get nerfed for sure, or reworked.
Spirit and Blight add-ons, BNP
Myers and Sadako can't really get nerf to add-ons right now, because they suck basekit. This is their redemption. But I think most players wouldn't mind basekit buff and add-ons reworked.
Double range nurse is not a thing anymore.
5) nah, it's not really bad thing to have limited skins. You can flex if you have them. It's not DBD specific thing.
6) they will do it
7) just remove it, wouldn't really be an issue with monthly resets imo. It's just reward for playing decently and lot. Depip is outdated mechanic. It's dump when you stomp the game you get punished.
8) pain resonance was one of best reworks in long time. It's trying to get BBQ effect and give killers reason to focus different survivors.
Self-healing was broken, it's good it was nerfed.
DH was most used perk because it was easy to use it. That perk is not designed well. It basically disables killer's lunge attack. Lot of powers were free DH.
Watching survivor for several seconds waiting for DH was not really healthy counterplay.
It's basically same thing why I think healthy unhooking grabs should be removed.
They are working on changing bad perks, but lot of perks are basically beyond saving by their effect from start.
They are also slow with changes, creating new bad perks faster than buffing already bad perks.
1) freddy and also pig were and are good especially at lower ranks at which ppl don't know how to counter them too much yet. the kill rates published by bhvr count every mmr. even otzdarva has made this a topic in one of his videos once being a problem because this doesn't really reflect their actual ranking. addons basekit and general changes is exactly what i have said myself just like that the weaker killers have to be addressed (closing the gap towards strong killers). it's not about making those weak killers op, but rather closing the gap.
2) who do you think suggested the anti-face camping changes? i was one of the persons constantly writing bhvr about anti-camping and anti-tunneling changes that had to be added to the game and even made suggestions on how they should look like. i care more about equality than most players do.
3) i have never said to add ALL addons basekit. so it wouldn't be boring. that's the third time now that shows me you didn't read my post entirely or word by word. bhvr could remove all addons and keep brown addons which they could change in a certain way to give killers the ability for different playstyles. then they could buff killers generally partially by implementing some of the nerfed addons as basekit. also i was once again one of the persons who wrote to bhvr multiple times that double range on nurse is a huge problem. after multiple support tickets and months they have finally addressed it then. removing addons except for brown versions for variety and buffing those killers by default would make small tweaks to their power a piece of cake. simple changes like lunge speed, stalking speed, pallet breaking, recovery and all the important things could easily be changed killer by killer with small changes.
4) seems to be missing
5) time limited skins create fomo on ppl who aren't able to get them in time just like the skins in the game at the current event time. you would have to wait a whole year for the masquerade outfits just like the waterfront massacre outfits if you aren't able to get them now. if you are poor and you can't invest 100 € or more to get all the cosmetics at the moment you will have to wait a whole year until they are in the store again. some outfits from past rifts haven't even been added to the store yet just like nea's system smasher outfit from tome 5 unleashed collection for example. this cosmetic was in tome 5 that was in the game almost three full years ago now. this outfit still hasn't made it into the store yet. the never stop slashing outfit for legion is another one that was only added after ppl like me have complained many times to bhvr that they should finally add it.
6) once again who do you think suggested bots being added to the game? correct! me! i was one of the person who wrote to bhvr multiple times about bots that should be added to the game for ppl who constantly dc either on purpose or for reasons they can't control, but still leaving the rest of the team at a high disadvantage or ending the match entirely because it was the killer that had a dc. i can't even count how many times i have suggested bhvr should finally add bots.
7) exactly! losing pips serves no purpose at all and just causes frustration!
8) once again...you can already guess it right? i have also suggested changes to the meta because everybody was constantly using the same boring perks. it was getting boring and annoying at the same time. the changes to pain res were only partially good imo though. of course this change was needed to make it kinda unattractive, but only being able to use it 4 times a match makes it kinda useless just like dh. you have to be lucky on map rng to have good scourge hooks and good coordinated teams can even deny you getting these little 4 scourge hooks once they realized you have this perk.
self-care was okay to get nerfed, but not past 50 % healing. the 33 or 35 % it now has makes it totally trash and just one of the many useless perks. what do you think so many ppl used the "meta"? it's because those "meta" perks could be used in many different situations vs many different killers. you didn't have to take perks that only worked vs certain killers like dh for example. dh was a strong perk, but once u got an endurance status like from legions stab or deathslinger's shot it was useless. you can't heal with self-care anymore not even when the killer doesn't run sloppy butcher because it takes ages and ppl even proved how stupid this perk now is on the ptb when bhvr tested out general slower healing speed for survivors. it took like 1 to 2 minutes to heal yourself with self-care. who can sit at a spot healing themselves 1 or 2 minutes in a normal match? nobody!
dh was totally easy to counter post nerf by many killers. wraith's bell, freddy's dream snare, pyramidheads m2, demogorgon's shred, huntress'/trickster winding up animation, doctor's shock, clown's bottle switch animation...many killers had an animation to trick the survivors into swinging and therefore wasting their dh. at the beginning when dh was used for distance was a problem because it could extend a loop entirely, but even pre-nerf now it wasn't op. u can't use dh at windows or pallets because you just have to wait one second and if survivors don't vault or throw the pallet they are hit or wasted a pallet. if they carry an item you can even see if they want to dh when the item disappears...totally easy to counter. only when survivors fov tag you around a corner if you lost line of sight dh can still sometimes work. at all other times dh doesn't rly work especially now.
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@Hex_TunnelBait said:
Agree with a lot of points, but definitely not #1. I've never understood the "dont nerf Nurse/Blight, but buff every other killer to their level" argument. People making this statement always seem to have high MMR 4-SWFs as their reference point when saying that, but solo queue exists and so do casual/unskilled survivors. If every killer were suddenly on Nurse/Blight level, solo and casual survivors are going to get steamrolled constantly and stop playing.
well with this i didn't mean that every killer should be able to teleport through walls and i have even described what i meant in the 2nd sentence. the gap should be closed. other killers don't have to be as strong as nurse or blight, but they shouldn't fall behind completely. it feels like there is a huge gap between nurse/blight and every other killer. if you take them on a side-by-side comparison with everything the same except for the killer the results will be tremendously different. so imo all other killers should be buffed in a way this gap is closed at least a bit. even if they were just a little bit stronger generally this would make playing every other killer more fun and less frustrating.
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@m4x1m_000 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3388810#Comment_3388810
You can trigger Knight’s guard, tap hooked survivor and the guard will disappear. You welcome.
And there’s no problem with OTR + DS + DH combo for you as I can see. The irony. More second chances the better.
i think you got the situation wrong. the knight was face camping and was just waiting for somebody to get close to first the guard hits them and then the knight himself. this knight has done this multiple time throughout the trial and i know i could trigger the guard, but this knight just constantly refreshed the guard. the more important part of this picture was the range of the guard though. this should symbolize that if a killer was face camping there was no way i could use my reassurance to prevent this face camping without risking do go down as well in the process. the range is way too low and reassurance should be basekit.
besides that otr, ds and dh are needed to protect me from getting tunneled and face camped every game though i still get face camped and tunneled every game despite having these perks. even though i had these perks i died in the end btw. because the killer was...surprise...face camping and tunneling all game long! i have rescued meg in this match btw., but she went down infront of the gate somehow and died. only the jeff could escape in that match. jeff and i were protecting the other survivors constantly and trying to win this match. at least jeff got out of this match...
the fact that i still died, got face camped and tunneled despite having these perks to prevent face camping and tunneling just proves my point that these perks have to be basekit. especially when the next update gets released and dh gets useless combined with longer healing. i generally like the idea of longer healing, but that will also most likely make killers camp and tunnel even more.
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the following is the perfect example why reassurance has to be basekit or at least have a much bigger range:
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3381891#Comment_3381891
I agree I have only reached iri on both sides because I sweat. On killer I tunnel every game and then spread hooks to have best chance to pip or at minimium safety pip.
On survivor it's important you don't get found first if im alone I usually cleanse totem or keep low profile before killer finds someone. Try to do unhooks, heals, gens and totems. Best stragedy is to 3 gen your team as long match quaratees pip or two.
But unfortunately there will be matches when killer tunnels/camp you out and that's depip and there will be matches when you get gen rushed as killer and depip. You just have to hope you have more good games...
well for my experience i get way more points as a killer if i don't tunnel ppl out of the game. if you kill a person early on this person can't do a generator nor heal or unhook other ppl you can pressure more to gain more points. you don't get any more chase points for that survivor nor can you kick a generator this person might repair nor can you hit them again to gain more points. i rarely ever depip as a killer and only when i meet the sweatiest tournament swfs who join with the strongest perks, items and gen rush me before i can even start playing.
as a survivor i lose pips way more often. since i get face camped 1st hook and tunneled out of the game very often i lose pips constantly. if you play solo like me this happens even more frequently as if you were in a swf. it doesn't matter if i keep a low profile or show myself. the outcome is almost never different than losing pips or getting a black pip at max. this definitely has to change and can only be addressed by the devs.
in order to make tunneling and camping unattractive i have created another thread that should give survivors certain self-defense perks basekit. therefore being face camped 1st hook or being tunneled out of the game early on would be a thing of the past.
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@TragicSolitude said:
My friend just made the mistake of trying to play solo survivor. Friend was the first one chased and during it ran by someone who was AFK. The killer downed my friend, downed the AFKer, then hooked my friend in the basement. A moment later, the killer downed Bill who tried to pick up the AFKer and put him on a hook. The killer then pulled the final survivor, Dwight, off a gen and tried to get him to make hook saves but he ran off and hid instead. My friend and the Bill both died.
Obviously, my friend depipped for that. Totally fair.
That was the first and last match. It's not even uncommon for a match to go that way, but it's so frustrating. My friend turned the game off because who wants to queue up just for that? Basically the only thing that happened was he lost previous progress made. Depipping kills any desire he or I might have to play the game. No other game I've played has included such a de-motivational mechanic to chase away its customers.
If anyone's curious, we spectated a bit before turning the game off, and the killer was trying to get Dwight and the now-returned AFKer (who NEVER GOT HOOKED) to do gens. Freaking why? Five gens left, no one touched a gen at all after my friend died, so I can only hope Dwight continues to hide and the AFKer continues to beg for death and the killer severely regrets not just killing them. Goddammit, guys, can you please start hooking AFKers first?
well i can't even count how many times i have experienced that exact same situation. it's totally frustrating! i can tell you why the killer in the end tried to get the remaining survivors to trade hooks or do gens and that's because the killer didn't want to depip themselves. by killing survivors way too quickly serves the same purpose as you dying 1st hooked due to being face camped, tunneled out of the game early on or survivors gen rushing you as a killer within minutes without having the opportunity to gain any chase, brutal or gen defense points in that match. what the killer did there was literally damage control and it's especially annoying if they start doing that after you got camped or tunneled out of the game benefiting the person who deserved points the least.
that's exactly why i want the devs to see this so losing pips finally gets removed out of the game asap! many more ppl have to see and upvote this thread so this can be changed, but it seems behavior just doesn't care about their customers :/
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@Deathstroke said:
It's just better to give up on pipping you only get max 2 million bp as reward if you reach red rank 1 in both sides. Depipping definetely should not be thing but it does not seem to be bhvr priority to fix it or just remove it. I can 3-4K as killer and still not get a pip and then have few bad games and lose a pip. On survivor you can still escape and depip.... grades feel like they are still rank and they are there to show skill expression even they are supposed to just show how much you play but that definetely is not the case.
but it should be of priority. i sometimes have 50 matches in a row in which i constantly lose a pip and can't climb up. the highest i can get on each side is mostly gold 4 and i must have been rly lucky getting their. that shouldn't be a thing and i pretty much never get past it anymore.
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@Mastapalidin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3374438#Comment_3374438
Yeah that's what I dislike a lot, that it's reliant on a bad killer or good teammates to pip. Should just reduce the requirements to pip at Iri or remove de-pipping at Iri completely.
depipping should be removed all together because it doesn't serve a purpose anymore. back in the days of rank based match making losing pips served a purpose at least on paper to be paired with equally good killers/survivors, but now after the rework and implementation of a grade system in which ranks serve no purpose anymore losing pips is not a thing that should exist in dbd.
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@Mastapalidin said:
This definitely needs to be addressed. It is basically impossible to get Iridescent 1 as a solo queue player as it requires far too much to pip.
well i agree to the extent that it needs way more work as a survivor to reach iri 1, but you get pips for the same categories. the problem is just that your luck on doing that depends on your teammates and how "nice" the killer is. if the killer face camps/tunnels you then you won't get points. if your teammates are intentionally throwing and dcing on purpose etc. you are also screwed.
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@martinj97 said:
This is an imbalance between SWF and SoloQ that needs to be fixed.
it's definitely not a thing that has to do with the imbalance between solo q and swf, but this imbalance definitely needs to be addressed. this problem is mostly about face camping/tunneling killers and gen rushing survivors though.
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...and another one...
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@RaSavage42 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3368619#Comment_3368619
No I did read it properly.... you are saying that Survivors don't Tunnel... but you have seen it happening (so it does happen on both sides)
So the Killer can't do the same thing?
Also the thing about Camping and Tunneling it is related to Gen progression and Gen regression... The Killer will Camp and Tunneling at 5 Gens means that they don't want to deal with Gens popping quickly and Gen regression doesn't do much even with 4 Gen perks
So it's more like 9 out of 10 times the Killer decides to Camp and Tunnel (but you play both sides so it should've been more clear
Yes it does... Being Camped/Tunneled at 5 Gens mean the Killer doesn't have to worry about chasing 1 and having 3 others on 1-3 Gens (so the team loses 1.0 charges per second, 16 second heals, safe unhooks)
No the game was made for hide and seek... but then it evolved to what it is now
There are more reasons for DC's then just Camping and Tunneling (It could be the Killer played, Map played, Getting caught first, not wanting to be killed first and specifically not wanting to die to an RBT)
Camping and Tunneling is because of Perks, Items and addons being used
Survivors bodyblock after being unhooked... forcing the Killer to hit that Survivor and/or Chasing that Survivor... Survivors that bring BNP's can only do one Gen fast but the rest of them go slower then that (so it's up to the Survivor in how they want to use their BNP)
Prove Thyself is being used cause of the 10 charges added to Gens...
And again adding more perks to basekit will only further the "meta"... cause of this BHVR will have to make even more changes to the game
did you even read your own first sentence for yourself? how can survivors tunnel? survivors aren't chasing the killer nor killing them. do you even understand the concept of this game? so no...tunneling doesn't happen on both sides. it only happens on the killer side because some toxic person decides to go for just one person alone.
i can understand a killer who has to deal with toxic survivors who want to simply annoy the killer and nothing else. tunneling in this case is acceptable in my opinion. you just fight fire with fire or poison with poison. if you tunnel without any reason though that's inacceptable.
you're saying that camping and tunneling has to do with gen progression or regression simply because the killer fears that gens pop quickly one after another, but how can this killer know that? can you look into the future? maybe the survivors you are facing are beginners, inexperienced, badly-coordinated, not a swf or do bad mistakes. how can you know that multiple gens will pop quickly after each other? correct! you can't know that!
if i run corrupt intervention, deadlock and no way out i can delay the game long enough to get at least one kill even against the sweatiest and most toxic swf groups out there in dbd. you can also run an endgame build if you don't want to deal with generators all together. then you can just ignore them and work towards endgame. you will get at least 1 kill and don't have to deal with gens nor have to face camp or tunnel. just by running rancor and noed for example (if you don't play as a one-shot killer) you can simply secure at least one kill at the end of the game. a second kill is pretty likely if you run no way out for example. so what do you care about generators. even if the balance between regression and progression is bad you could still get 1 or 2 kills in a match you are totally screwed over without even having to face camp or tunnel a single time.
these perks (reassurance, kinship, deceisive strike and off the record) are simply there to prevent unfair matches and by unfair matches in this context i mean killers face camping one single survivor or tunneling just one survivor out of the game early on. this player doesn't have fun at all in that match and if you really think you are treated unfair due to way too quick generator repairs then you treat this one survivor exactly the way you feel in that match. how is that fair? do you really think if you treat one single survivor badly you will feel better for being gen rushed? i highly doubt that this is the case!
IF you decide to face camp a single survivor and these survivors don't have reassurance or kinship you will at best get only one kill. how is that a win on your part? standing there face camping one single survivor the whole game makes you feel as if you did something special as if you played very well? if that's good gameplay for you then you really have to switch the game because this is a competitive alike game and standing around doing nothing has nothing to do with being good in that game. it's like somebody would have given you a trophy for 1st place in a marathon even though you didn't even walk 1 meter. do you really think you would have earned that trophy? is that your idea of fairness? i hope not!
you think multiple generators popping at once is unfair and therefore you face camp a survivor, but prove thyself or 4x bnps is okay for you? do you even listen to yourself? the only reason generators pop so rapidly is due to these items and perks! face camping or tunneling one survivor won't slow down this repair progress nor will it give you more kills. the only time you will get more kill than the face camped survivor is when the other survivors try to unhook this camped survivor and end up being slugged and/or hooked, too. if all other 3 survivors did generators while you were busy playing with your balls in front of the hooked survivor then you would never get more than 1 kill especially not if the survivors run reassurance and kinship.
i don't want to be forced to run these perks though just because there some dumb idiots out there who want to ruin the complete gameplay experience of other ppl by simply face camping or tunneling them. it really feels like i'm the only normal person playing this game having the foresight of seeing the crucial problem of this game.
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@Technature said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3368620#Comment_3368620
Look man, if you want to make your paragraphs illegible by refusing to use capital letters and basic paragraphs, then why should I be bothered to put in the effort to try to read it?
look man...i don't care if you bother to read my comment. if you don't want to read it then that's fine. it's your own choice and i won't force you to read it.
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@Defend said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3368625#Comment_3368625
I can see DS returning to it's original 5 seconds, but besides that everything else feels like reality to me. None of these perks need to become base-kit.
DS used to be the best way to counter tunneling, a 5 second stun was a powerful tool, now it's hardly effective against all of the roster, more so on the stronger side. You can balance around the higher tier killers such as Blight, Nurse or Spirit to get their power hindered by a DS stun.
The reason why tunneling became more effective is because DS became less effective, nothing has changed with borrowed time being basekit or not. In the past if a killer wanted to tunnel he would just hit off hook regardless or just wait out 10 seconds (sounds pretty similar).
If it returned back to it's 5 second glory then more people would run it, therefore more killers would face DS back to back and the fear of it just existing comes back. It's kinda similar to how killers don't even swing anymore because half of the survivors usually have deadhard.
well 5 seconds or 3 seconds doesn't make a difference. it doesn't matter if a blight or nurse get stunned for 3 or 5 seconds. they will catch up to you within a blink of an eye anyways. so this change means nothing. furthermore what does ds do about camping? when i get face camped 1st hook for 3 minutes straight. what does ds do for me in that situation? for that exact reason and the reason you have mentioned yourself - the fear of being hit by ds - these perks have to become basekit. when unbreakable and mori become basekit nobody will let you bleed out on the floor because everybody could pick themselves up. at the current state you have to make a guess if that person might have unbreakable or not. most killers don't slug even now because of that fear.
when i would have to fear that the 29 seconds a survivor hung there in 1st phase on the hook to then be saved by a reassurance all my camping and the 29 seconds would have been a waste. you can't generate this fear by not having this perk basekit. if i always have to run this perk just to make sure a survivor isn't face camped because most killers are toxic and the devs allow camping i'm wasting a perk slot just to ensure that this is not happening. face camping and tunneling shouldn't have happened to begin with, but happens because there is no valid protection against it.
if every survivor had reassurance and kinship then not a single killer would face camp anymore because it would have been a total waste of time to stand there doing nothing waiting for the survivor to finally die on hook. if ds and off the record were basekit even with just the 3 seconds every killer would at least respect these perk and tunnel less because survivors would have 2 more perks that could help in chase to get away from said tunneling killer like resilience, distortion, windows of opportunity, quick and quiet, light weight etc. all these perks can't be taken if i'm forced to run ds, off the record, reassurance AND kinship just to ensure somebody isn't tunneled nor face camped to death. i wouldn't even be able to run an exhaustion perk to help me in chase if i had to run these four perks to protect myself or my teammates. the 3 seconds from ds and even off the record aren't enough protection.
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@Wexton said:
Survivors don't need 4 perks to be basekit lol, you're living off in fantasy land.
you seem to live in fantasy land if you think survivors don't need these perks basekit to prevent unfair matches.
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@NerfDeadHardPLZ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/365613/my-solution-to-camping-and-tunneling
I agree if following happens:
- Gens taking 140 seconds
- Corrupt Intervention basekit and returned to pre nerf value
- Deadlock basekit
- Shattered Hope basekit
- Dead Hard nerfed to be used once per game
- No way out basekit
- Pallet/gen kicking increased by 10% more
- Recover from missed swing or hit swing increased 30% more
- Killer speed increased by 0.1 m/s on every killer
- Hex totems get undying basekit ( all of them ), undyinig adding 3rd effect
- would be possible
- doesn't do too much most of the time anyways instead of the initial slow down so why not
- that would probably be way too powerful
- also probably way too powerful - would mean brining a boon perk would be totally useless and self-care would have to be 100 % self-healing then to make up for it
- are you joking? dead hard rarely even works in most matches and if you play a certain killer like legion or deathslinger dead hard never even works a single time. furthermore you can't make it a one time use because running exhaustion perks all together would be senseless if they were a one time use. you would have to be limited to one chance of hitting a survivor then. if you miss you have to let them go. that would be ridiculous just like making dh a one time use.
- i have already suggested that in my first comment
- kicking all together is already increased by 10 % - so no doesn't have to increased any further
- that would totally break the game if a killer runs mad grit and/or save the best for last.
- not a bad thing at all, but would mostly favor the strong killers again anyways
- that would probably be way to powerful. having to cleanse devour hope 3x or having to deal with 3x haunted ground would be ridiculous. so no that would not be a good thing.
all in all these changes would make killers even stronger, but the perks i have mentioned don't make survivors stronger at all. they just prevent unfair gameplay. if you would improve killers like that you would have to improve survivor perks, too. this would balance out the game. if you made all these changes you would have to make changes to killers, too. for example myers would only be able to tier up once to t3 the whole match or plague only gets one corrupt fountain or oni can only activate his power once per match. as you can see this would be ridiculous, but it would be the same as improving killers even further AND face camping and tunneling would be even easier for killers and that's exactly what this thread should prevent. i don't want killers to be even better at face camping or tunneling, but remove this all together. there should nobody die 1st hook and have to hang on a hook for 3 minutes straight without being able to do anything at all. there should nobody be tunneled right off the hook constantly without the killer going for any other survivor at all. if kicking speed and missed hits would be improved for example it would be a LOT easier for me to tunnel and chase after an unhooked person because i can easily shred through pallets and it doesn't matter if i miss or hit a survivor because i can literally hit them two times at once. that's just stupid!
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@Technature said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3367980#Comment_3367980
What do you mean nothing to separate, I see no less than 14 sentences.
you seperate a comment if it has different statements in it, but my comment didn't have different statements. it was all about one single topic.
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@RaSavage42 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3367979#Comment_3367979
So you haven't seen a Survivor stay on a Gen until it's finished?
Apparently this discussion is about adding more perks basekit not about fixing the game... (-.-)
Yes this is about Gen progression VS Gen regression... why would a even thinking Killer Camp and Tunnel?
Giving all of those perks will screw over those Killer that don't tunnel... Survivors have already gotten used to having OTR
Getting rid of Items will not be a good decision... just saying
If progression and regression were to be more even then the only Camping and Tunneling would only be toxic (not saying it lightly)
We need to stop asking for perks to become basekit... it only will further "meta" perks
Also Tunneling does come from healing speed...
it seems you don't read properly. since i have said i play both roles i have of course seen survivors stay on a gen the whole time until it's finished. if the killer doesn't interrupt them then what else should they do? stand around doing nothing? this thread is about fixing the game towards a fair gameplay and not just about one part of it. i'm not taking sides on this one. i will not just support killers so they can camp and tunnel even more.
camping and tunneling just has something to do with gen progression or regression in 1 of 10 cases. in all other 9 cases killers camp for whatever reason because they have fun to annoy survivors, because they had a bad day, because they think survivors are favored generally, because they weren't good enough, because they play bubba and just want to abuse their killer etc. there are all kinds of reasons why killers face camp/tunnel and i can speak from experience that it has almost never to do with gen speed.
when i get face camped at 5 gens it has nothing to do with gen speed. if i get tunneled right off the hook at 5 gens it has nothing to do with gen speed. so how does this have to do with gen regression or progression? exactly! it's not connected to it! gen regression and progression is a whole different topic in dbd. this is about fairness. killers aren't treated unfair if the gens fly by. you can take gen protection or regression perks with you just the way ppl say survivors should take tunnel/camp perks with them, BUT there aren't any strong gen repair perks on survivor side except for prove thyself and again this perk only works when multiple survivors work on a generator. there is not a single other good gen repair perk for survivors except prove thyself and that's a limited perk. if you run discordance you can counter that perk.
no...having these perks basekit won't screw over killers who don't tunnel because you don't lose anything as a killer if you don't tunnel. if you never tunnel and go for different survivors even if it swap between survivor a and survivor b the whole time these perks will make no difference at all. ds and off the record only work until you perform a conspicuous action and if you want to help your team then you have to perform conspicuous actions. furthermore they are deactivated in the endgame and ds is most likely used beforehand anyways and can only have been used if you as a killer tunneled that person. so it's your own fault. reassurance only works in close proximity to a hook and the survivor running that perk has to stop whatever they are doing to activate this perk on the hook. while you are camping you could have done many other productive things like chasing the other survivors off their generators, regress said generators, protect said generators and if the hooked person gets unhooked you can go back and chase the unhooker instead. after you downed them you can go for the previously hooked person again if you want to. that wouldn't be tunneling and you wouldn't have to deal with off the record or ds, too. kinship works only in struggle phase and only when another survivor is in close proximity to the hook. this perk also only gives you value if the killer is face camping you and that's not something a killer should aim for. if you played the game normally you would always get at least a black pip in a match as killer. if you are face camped 1st hook and die 1st hook as survivor though you will definitely get a depip. if you get tunneled out of the game as the only person being chased you will definitely lose a pip. so how is this fair for this survivor? do you think they have fun dying on 1st hook because nobody can rescue them or because they got tunneled out of the game early on? if you think this is fun then you should play survivor and see for yourself.
getting rid of 4x brand new parts, styptic or syringe wouldn't be a good thing? you complain about gen regression being too low, but the real threat comes from these items actually. if you got a swf team that completes a gen in literally 5 seconds with 4 brand new parts it's no fun as killer. if you have to shred through 4, 5 or even 6 health states as killer it's no fun. if the survivor had mettle of man, syringe + styptic, dead hard, the usual 2 health states and maybe even a well time adrenaline to the end you are screwed for. that's no fun at all and not even nurse or blight can do much about it. they can shred through health states quickly, but if they are hit by all these items, addons and perks there is not much that even they can do. i have seen this in action too many time as killer. so i know what i'm speaking of. it's no fun at all having to deal with this. furthermore balancing killers would be way easier if they had just base addons. you could easily increase the movement speed of a killer, improve their power etc. if no addons are in play. if addons are in play you always have to take these into consideration. if you had a double range nurse you couldn't increase the base range of nurses blinks for example because killers with double range would have a huge advantage. you wouldn't be able to increase the base movement speed of huntress because her iri addon would screw this over. you wouldn't be able to increase the movement speed of plague because her iri addon would screw things over. you can't make myers stronger base because tombstone is in play and if myers was way stronger generally tombstone myers would most likely be much stronger than even nurse or blight. so yes removing addons/items would make balancing waaaaay easier!
so again face camping and tunneling has nothing to do with perks, items or addons. it has to do with how bhvr designed their game initially. if nobody in your team has reassurance or you don't run kinship and you get face camped you can do nothing except for either giving up (dcing), killing yourself on hook or buying your team time to escape while they can do generators. though this is still no pleasant experience for the face camped survivor at all. that's one reason why there are so many dcs nowadays in dbd. in pretty much 9 of my 10 matches while i'm playing either side i see at least 1 dc in the match. is it fun as a killer to wait for 10 to 30 minutes for a match to just see all survivors dc? would that be fun for you as a killer because ultimately survivors should do that if the killer is face camping or tunneling. if all survivors constantly dc'd when a killer face camped or tunneled there would not be a single normal match and you would sit in the queue constantly. is that what you wish for as a killer? is that fun to you?
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@Spectralfx said:
I say they should nerf the ability of survivors to do gens and heal!
Why you ask?
Because it's more fun for killer of course!
I also believe that all survivors should start the match broken and incapacitated for 10 min...
If they think it's too overpowered, just throw in there built-in noed and no escape.
Also, all killers should be able to blink like nurse, that would be pretty dope.
This is my iteration of what the original post said, I feel like I should have asked for more tho...
Tunneling and camping is just a playstyle for killer, get over it... because it's here to stay.
if you want to act like a kid and not take this serious then please don't write anything in this thread. this topic is for matured ppl who are really interested in making this game better for everybody. comments like this are the reason important topics like these aren't discusses enough and properly. if you want to act like a kid then do that somewhere else. i don't have time for that.
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@Technature said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3365375#Comment_3365375
I literally cannot read that. Learn how to make paragraphs please.
I'm not trying to be an #########, I just attempted to read through it and lost my place no less than three times before I gave up.
despite that being a rather you problem than a me problem this isn't the topic of this discussion to begin with. if there is nothing to separate paragraphs are of no use.
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@RaSavage42 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3365367#Comment_3365367
I didn't say that you only play one side
Why make perks basekit... that's just going to make the "meta" stronger (you have 4 perk slots... pick wisely)... Also the perks you picked come from a licensed chapters (minus Kinship and Off The Record) and Off The Record wouldn't work with BT... DS just needs to be reverted and it will be used
Survivors don't Camp and Tunnel Gens... Then say Gen rushing (make up your mind)
Endgame perks do synergize well... but you have nothing for the start or middle of a match
Survivors finish a Gen before Corrupt wears off (my experience)
Deadlock kinda sorta stops Gen rushing... as does Corrupt and TT
Gens:
Basekit Survivors: 1.0-2.2 charges per second... Prove Thyself make it 1.0-3.19 charges per second
Basekit Killers: .25 charges per second... Perks increase this... Call Of Brine makes Gen regression .50 charges per second for 60 seconds... Pop takes off 17.98 charges, PR takes off 13.485 charges, Eruption takes off 8.99 charges, Jolt takes off 7.192 charges
So how can you say the Gen regression is stronger then progression
No Way Out only works when the Gens are done... No slowdown
Instead of removing Items and nerfing perks... just adjust base Gen regression and progression
i'm stating all this because camping and tunneling is something killers do and not survivors. this discussion is not about evening out both parties. that's a whole different story. this discussion is about perks that help survivors with unfavorable situations. reassurance, kinship, off the record, ds as basekit would all prevent face camping and/or tunneling. they have got nothing to do with gen speed. they just ensure that you are not force to hang on a hook for 3 minutes without being able to do anything besides that because the killer stands right in front of you. they ensure that you don't get chased right after you got unhooked. basekit bt and even taking ds as a perk of the 4 perk slots doesn't ensure you don't get tunneled. especially strong killers will shred through your health states even if you have these two "securities". in addition to that ds and the protection of off the record wear off if you perform a conspicuous action which is almost everything in the game. so having them basekit wouldn't make survivors stronger at all. the ONLY situation they would survivors stronger is by toxic swfs taking hits aggressively just to ######### you up and interrupt your chase of another survivor, BUT these toxic swfs will do that nonetheless. if these perks are basekit or not...they will still try to annoy killers.
giving no way out basekit was a compensation of good will in case killers might say all these perks basekit is too much and once again these perks don't give survivors an advantage. they are purely existing to ensure you don't get camped or tunneled, but as i have already said multiple times you still get camped or tunneled IF you have these perks equipped. so having them equipped is NOT enough! that's why they should be basekit to make killers fear these perks because the ds nerf (even if it was just to weaken meta perks) made it kinda useless and i'm running ds and off the record almost every game btw. they aren't enough!
again this discussion isn't about gen repair speed or gen regression speed. i know myself that mostly survivors repair gens way faster than survivors can regress them. that's why i have stated that i play both sides. i know the experience of gen rushing survivors while playing killer and also being camped/tunneled as survivor. both situations are annoying. erruption, corrupt and pop got nerfed. there is nothing we can do about it though. especially not in this discussion though you still have to remember they were nerfed except for erruption due to being a meta perk that every killer used just like ds, iron will, dh etc. on survivor side. so ultimately these nerfs have nothing to do with the initial topic of my discussion.
i want to reduce the incidents of annoying gameplay where one person gets face camped all game long or tunneled out of the game right after being unhooked. i don't take dumb decisions of survivors into consideration like unhooking right in front of the killer for example because this has nothing to do with the actual problem of survivors getting face camped for 3 minutes or being tunneled all game long.
furthermore by removing items/addons (yes not just survivor items, but also killer addons) balancing the game (yes also gen regression and progression speeds) will be much easier just like balancing killers all together. the gap between strong and weak killers could be closed way easier because items or addons wouldn't play a role anymore in all the statistics of a killer. there wouldn't be a huge gap between double range nurse compared to no range nurse. there wouldn't be a huge gap between tombstone myers and a normal myers. myers for example could easily be made stronger if there were strong addons like tombstone rewarding for doing nothing that whole match. no strong items on survivors side would mean no more 4x brand new parts = no extreme gen rushing especially in combination with gen repair perks. also i didn't even think removing all items/addons would be necessary. bhvr could keep a base version of every item/addon with low impact on the game, but still creating a bit of variety like keeping all brown toolboxes, medkits, flashlights etc. all this would also play into a more fair match not only for survivors, but also for killers.
everybody who disagrees with that doesn't seek a fairer gameplay in dbd.
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@Technature said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3361333#Comment_3361333
If the killer is throwing the game to the point that they attempt to track you down across the map instead of going after other players, you start hiding and avoiding generators like the plague. If the killer is explicitly abandoning or not even interacting with other survivors, then he's doing the bare minimum if even that for gen protecting and your undisturbed teammates will do the work for you.
Any survivor with basic knowledge will realize what's going on and attempt to make themselves a target and hinder the killer and will realize why you're spending the rest of the game doing a Blendette impression.
that's where you are wrong. my teammates almost never realize the situation because i don't play in a swf. that's the huge disadvantage of solo queue and the reason why eruption got nerfed for example because solo players can't coordinate like swfs can being even able to break generated 3 gens. there is nothing my team or other survivors can do if i'm getting tunneled or am deciding on tunneling just one person. if i want to be an ######### i will just tunnel you out no matter how hard the other survivors try. that of course doesn't work as good with weaker killers, but some killers are really good with it. the strong killers obviously can easily tunnel you out and shred through health states with ease. other killers like bubba can easily facecamp you and even down you with his chainsaw if you got protected by base bt or off the record. bubba will just hit you twice within a 5 seconds time span and you are hooked again. if you got ds you will go down soon again with no ds and then they can easily tunnel you out when you get unhooked again knowing you don't have ds anymore. i have experienced this situation way too many times already even without a hook camping bubba. the only perk that could prolong the time for me staying in the trial and gaining at least some hook struggle points is reassurance and kinship, but in order to secure i at least get some points this way i have to sacrifice two perk sluts and even a third if i want to take ds with me. if i also want to take off the record with me i would have to run without any exhaustion perk just to guarantee my time on hook is long enough in case i get tunneled and i can tell you that i get tunneled or face camped at least once every 2nd or 3rd match. it's no way near fun.
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@RaSavage42 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3361332#Comment_3361332
They just did increase the Gen times... so no
They need to increase the Gen regression and adjust the Gen progression
Why make more perks basekit??? and why just Survivors???
i play both sides so i'm not favoring any side. these perks should be basekit in my opinion to prevent what the title of this thread describes...camping and tunneling. survivors don't camp or tunnel and i have also given a very strong endgame option to be basekit as killer. no way out have got me many kills as killer already. you of course need at least 1 person dead and 1 other person should be hooked before no way out triggers, but even if just one person is dead you can combine this perk with many other perks like remember me, noed and rancor just to name three.
in addition to that these perks being basekit wouldn't make survivors stronger, but rather protect them from unfair playstyle of killers. it's no fun hanging there being face camped 1st hook for 3 minutes straight without being able to do anything in that match or being tunneled off hook just to be hooked again repeatedly. if you can't imagine that you should try playing survivor and experiencing this at least once...it's no fun at all.
on killer side i can only think of one unfair thing and that's gen rushing survivors. that's nothing that could be addressed with many killer perks though. no way out is one perk to slow down "generators" or rather the endgame and therefore also gens in a way. corrupt intervention has already been nerfed by bhvr deactivating once you down a survivor. by the time you down a survivor this perks mostly runs off anyways though. the only change could be done by removing items and addons completely or leaving only brown items/addons as i have suggested once already or prove thyself could be nerfed though for prove thyself to work efficiently you need at least 2 survivors working on a gen and that's again rather a problem of swf in contrary to solo queue because swfs are way more coordinated that even 3 gens mostly aren't a problem, but for solo queue it is and that's why eruption got nerfed.
in my opinion op addons like tombstone for myers, double range for nurse or 4x brand new parts are way worse on survivor side than perks. perks that speed up generators aren't as strong as regression perks from killers are, but survivor addons make it stronger and you are 1 killer vs 4 survivors. so if every survivor had a green toolbox with a brand new part and combine that with gen repair perks it really gets annoying. gen repair perks itself aren't as bad though. so items are definitely the big problem in my opinion here.
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@Technature said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3358726#Comment_3358726
My friend.
The killer finding you a second time
is not tunneling.
it's tunneling the moment the killer ONLY goes for you. the time span between that doesn't matter at all. if they ignore other survivors intentionally and only go for you then it's tunneling. it doesn't have to be right off the hook to be called tunneling.
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@RaSavage42 said:
OR... they could increase base Gen regression
Some Killers Tunnel cause they don't have regression to match progression... and by taking a Survivor out as soon as possible it slows down the match
yeah or the time it takes survivors to complete generators. that would also be an option on the killer side, but only if the named perks would be basekit for survivors.
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@jinx3d said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3358277#Comment_3358277
one/two stacks of stbfl, weaker brutal strength, and thana was never basekit lmao. bt is way stronger than all 3 of those combined
you're wrong. with a patch not too long ago the speed of kicking things and the recovery from hits was reduced for killers entirely over the board. bt just gives u 10 seconds longer protection. a strong killer doesn't care for that. they will catch u within seconds even after hitting you into deep wound.
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@jinx3d said:
this would kill the game
the solution to camping and tunnelling isnt to heavily deter it, but heavily promote going for different people.
sure, you could make all these perks basekit, but then what could killer do? they cant camp, cant tunnel, cant slug if basekit unbreakable comes, cant hit and run cause of coh, cnt play endgame builds because 99ing the gates + adrenaline + they cant camp so the pressure in endgame is non existant, and they cant chase the unhooker because they have 3 health states-why chase them over the unhooked who has at most 2? all they can do is 3 gen and stall the game until survivors give up, and be real, youd rather be tunnelled than wait 20+ minutes because the killer refuses to chase you and leave their 3 gen.
something like basekit pain res-but it only triggers when the survivor being hooked wasnt the last one being hooked. sure, killer can try to tunnel, but they wont get that free gen regression that would come from going for someone else. dont nerf tunneling, buff not tunneling
a nurse, blight, spirit or even oni can easily snowball. so you can easily pain res between two survivors. go for the unhooker get another pain res. then chase after the unhooked get another pain res. go back to the now unhooked and previous unhooker to get another pain res. that's not a solution to tunneling or camping. you have to give killers a reason to leave is always mentioned, but the killer has a reason to leave. there are 5 generators to defend and 3 other survivors that could be chased. there is not a single reason to face camp or tunnel somebody out of the game. the only valid reason to proxy camp would be if there are 3 remaining gens in close proximity to the hooked person for example. why would i leave these 3 remaining gens AND the hooked person? that's why i also said that basekit no way out could be in consideration. rewarding to hook every person at least once to get a longer end game is not a bad deal imo. the mentioned perks in my initial post all prevent camping or tunneling though, but not enough to block a perk slot. ds for example gives u a 3 second stun whereas many killers can easily catch up after such a short stun and even after the initial 5 seconds catching up wasn't a hard thing for strong killers.
camping and tunneling shouldn't be a tactic that is needed by killers in order to win. killers already got improved kicking speed, a low lvl stbfl and even reduced stun time if i'm not mistaken. that's a good thing to make weaker killers stronger, but also makes stronger killers even stronger. perks like reassurance or kinship only do something if the killer stands there doing absolutely nothing whereas they could go search and hook other survivors or defend the remaining generators. if there is only 1 generator remaining and you got no hooks then of course camping is the only option, but that's not a thing i take into consideration here.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3358731#Comment_3358731
If the Killer is camping do gens, again in turn if the Survivors do Gens then the Killer will not leave with many points defeating the purpose of camping.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3358731#Comment_3358731
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3358733#Comment_3358733
If you are not unskilled, you can use We'll Make It, Guardian, Renewal, Borrowed Time, Decisive Strike and Off The Record.
All of those perks will help you with tunneling.
For Camping, there are Reassurance and not getting Caught.
if you go down in 6 seconds to a Nurse then you should not be matched with that Nurse mate.
doing gens only helps the rest of the team, but not the person being face camped => leading to the point depipping should be removed entirely. in addition to that camping killers don't care for points. so only the camped survivor actually loses something precious besides the fun for that game.
we'll make it only works if the killer doesn't tunnel right away. if you don't have time to heal the unhook person we'll make it does absolutely nothing for these two purposes. guardian also doesn't do enough to prevent tunneling. the killer must be extremely blind if they can't find a person who got protected by guardian. renewal doesn't help you if you get tunneled right after being unhooked because you will go down within that time span not to mention that renewal doesn't even trigger when you're already broken and i guess it doesn't even heal you if you are in deep wound due to basekit bt or even off the record just like adrenaline. bt doesn't prevent tunneling...it just delays the inevitable. strong killers don't even care if you got off the record. why would they care for bt? ds is a joke with its 3 seconds. by the time the stun ends especially strong killers would have downed you not long after that. off the record also has its downs, but is probably the best anti-tunneling perk at the games current state. it's still not too good though because you wouldn't be able to use dead hard for example and sprint burst/lithe/balanced landing are easily counterable by strong killers. also even if you got healed while off the record hid your aura you can still be tunneled afterwards. you again just delay the inevitable. reassurance does ######### about camping. you can't even use it if a bubba camps somebody in basement. how is this perk good then? furthermore players who face camp don't care if you run reassurance. they will stand there no matter what and don't care about losing. i have had it many times. the nerf to reassurance made it worse and the limited range doesn't help at all. you have to come so close to hook that you either go down or the killer just doesn't care about you. "not getting caught" is also a dumb way of saying things. i'm not the best player, but i'm far from being on beginner level. i can prolong chases quite long most of the time even for 5 gen chases, but there are times you still get caught no matter what and as stated previously hiding your aura for the moment with off the record just helps momentarily.
i can clearly see that everybody will go down to a very good nurse in 6 seconds. if you know how to play nurse there is nothing survivors can do. you will hit 99,9 % of the times and you can easily close the gap. i rarely see even good survivors last long against a very good nurse and you will go down for sure. it's just a matter of time and how much time you can buy for your team.
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yeah that happens if you play a strong killer or have too strong addons. imo myers should be buffed entirely, but his tombstone addons removed completely to even it out. that's another story though. it's the same as gen rushing on survivor side no matter the cause. either the killer is a bad match for that team in terms of bad match making or the survivors used very strong items and addons like 4 bnps. they would most likely also depip. i don't get why depipping is in the game still. it serves no purpose at all.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337801#Comment_3337801
On killer you have to still sweat like your life debend on it and that's not fun and it means more tunneling to get those pips as you have to force the win and kills anyway you can. In red rank it's even worse you have to slug too for 4K. Current pip mechanics in my opinions don't reward healthy playstyle for both sides. On survivor best way to pip is 3 gen yourself every game...
agreed. it's pretty unhealthy at its current state. my suggestion would be to remove depipping entirely and take black pips as a bare minimum because ppl who play like that on purpose don't care if they lose pips. so ppl who just don't care would make no progress at all by getting a black pip, but ppl who couldn't control the outcome of the match still wouldn't lose pips due to having toxic/bad teammates or a killer who just loves to annoy certain survivors.
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@Halloulle said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3358736#Comment_3358736
It's about striking the right balance as pips serve two purpsoes. First, to reward time spent in game. Gaining pips is supposed to reflect time invested into the game (as stated by BHVR). So in a way "time spent playing = pips". However, with how many things related to match-participation (or lack thereof) that determine whether you pip or not being out of your control the bare minimum should be that "time spent playing = - pips" definitely isn't a thing. In respect to the first purpose you are right, being disconnectd due to the game crashing etc. should not result into a depip because you still spent time playing and intended to continue playing. - But then comes the second purpose of de-pipping: to punish behaviour that is detrimental to game health by disturbing the natural flow of the match. AFK-ing and DC-ing are the two ways this can happen that are not contained in the game mechanics (as opposed to e.g. taking chances and failing skillchecks on hook. That is part of the game mechanic). I would be all for it if the game could tell if you pressed alt f4 because the game got stuck/bugged/whatever, if you PC crashed, there was a power outage or your wifi died - but alas, the game is not able to tell. It only knows you lost the connection - for whatever reason - in the middle of the match, preventing it from playing out in the intended way. This result is what leads to the depip. Arguably, making it less appealing to disturb the match via DCing/AFKing by keeping the depips is a reasonable measure. It does kinda suck to be the collateral damage, I give you that - but as long as the game can't tell the reason for the disconnect that's the best it can do.
sure, but ppl who intentionally dc on purpose don't care if they lose a pip or not. so ultimately you only punish either beginners (weaker players) for not performing good enough or ppl who couldn't control the outcome in form of a dc or being face camped/tunneled out of the game early on. as a killer you could still gain points by using your power, destroy stuff, find, chase, injure and potentially hook survivors even if you weren't good leading to at least a black pip, but on survivor side that's not possible if you die 1st hook not being able to do anything at all in that match.
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@PrincessCalla said:
Agreed, it needs to go. I'm also tired od depipping because someone DC's etc.
yeah it's totally frustrating...especially if u worked your ass off doing gens, cleansing hexes, unhook survivors and heal multiple survivors just to see that one person standing in a corner, hiding in a locker the whole game long or unhooking you right in front of the killer etc. on top of that it's YOU who gets punished for their actions because everybody in that match will likely depip because the killer easily performs better than that. it's totally annoying and this has to be taken out asap!
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@Dsnooz said:
This just makes me nostalgic for pip-based match-making.
Pips seem meaningless now, but the emblem system used to be how match-making was done. The upside was that survivors who recognized teamplay as important would easily move into purple ranks+. The downside was that occasionally we would get a "boosted" teammate.
So BHVR switched to an MMR system that was not enjoyed for several months, and it has been revised a few times. Now people are questioning why they de-pip.
Back when it was ranks you could lose overall progress too. So a lot about grades can change since they mostly imply how much you play in a given month and how active you are in the match.
yes and no. i have played for several years and as survivor the ranking system "mostly" worked to pair me with equal ranks, but when i played killer i mostly only got rank 1 sweaty survivors even if i wasn't good with that killer. so it wasn't pleasant at all and no good match making. the current match making is at least somewhat better, but still needs some tweaks in my opinion. losing pips doesn't server any purpose anymore though and yeah bhvr has to finally address/fix this.
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that's what bhvr seemingly says with their own words yeah.
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@Halloulle said:
Two things should give you a de-pip, and only these two things: DC-ing and afk-ing for prolonged periods of time (collecting three crows). Everything else is just the game showing a middle finger to the players.
not totally! u can also get a dc due to a bug in the game, your internet dies, you got a power outage or windows blue/black screen or whatever. a dc doesn't equal a dc. you would still be punished if it wasn't ur fault which happend to me yesterday btw. when i dropped down a lawnmower on coldwind farm and my game froze for whatever reason. i could only alt + f4 out of the game while i still had the game sound with the constant chase music. in result i got a depip. for what reason did i get a depip? there was no other way to solve this bug in the game, but to alt + f4 (dc) out of the game.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3358230#Comment_3358230
there are no GOOD perks against tunneling now.
False. I use them myself and while I know how to evade a killer it helps still. I see a lot of Survivors whine because nerfed DS wont help them against sweaty Nurse or Blight, but they still do work against those. But ofc they are not the free escape which Survivors want those perks to be. Face reality. OTR and DS are not bad at all.
what purpose does ds serve if the killer doesn't leave ur hook and face camps you? correct! nothing! if a bubba face camps you with their chainsaw nobody can unhook you. period! oh and if i play blight or nurse i don't give a ######### if you have ds or off the record. i will shred through 6 health states in seconds. if i hit u once with otr u can't use dh so u'll go down easily. if u have got another exhaustion perk i will bump into 3 more walls and u r down again. then hit me with ur ds and i will down u again in seconds. with nurse it's even easier because u don't even care if there are windows or pallets. u will just teleport right through them. a good nurse doesn't care if u got ds, otr and dh. u will go down in seconds anyways.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3358205#Comment_3358205
Survivors have multiple perks to deal with tunneling and perks to deal with camping and they can do gens and get out.
But they rather Dead Hard, and twerk, its their funeral.
which perk? name me only one that works efficiently against camping and tunneling.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3358162#Comment_3358162
I'm glad we understand each other, YES Survivors not doing not smart actions is quite idealistic, but that's not the Killers problem.
Don't nerf Killers because survivors are being not smart. Its not my problem.
Fix the MMR instead so the bad survivors can end up in Low MMR, where the unwise survivors belong instead.
that does absolutely nothing about face camping or tunneling killers. even if the survivors are smart unhooking when i'm not there i can still search the survivor i have just hooked previously and hook them again. then i will repeat the process and they are out without having done anything in that trial. same goes to face camping. if i stand right in front of you as bubba with my chainsaw nobody can unhook you and you say that this is the problem of not smart survivors? how is that a problem of not smart survivors if i can literally stand right in front of the hook and there is nothing you can do. if u unhook u will go down and if you don't unhook i will face camp that survivor til they die on hook. is that your way of saying that this is fun and enjoying the game? being face camped to death or tunneled?
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@Technature said:
This just in, using common sense tactics is too idealistic.
The number of tunneling incidents would reduce if people waited for the killer to be out of ear shot, or at LEAST wait for someone else to provide a distraction.
It's not hard.
no it doesn't. even when i get unhooked while the killer is all across the other side of the map i will get tunneled. they will just search for that one person and go for them only. nothing is solved with that especially if it's a very strong killer that can easily down you. even if you healed in safety and they come back at that time and tunnel you then what do you do? if you get tunneled u will be hooked again and then again.
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@Technature said:
Here's my solution to tunneling.
Quit the game and turn on something else.
Tunneling will either always be an issue or the game will end up being so survivor sided that kill rates will drop too close to single digit percentages.
Not because tunneling is the only way to get kills supposedly, but because survivors will use every safety net they're given in the most offensive method possible.
Case in point, BK Borrowed Time. How often will rescued survivors go out of their way to take a hit and then complain about you refusing to swing at them until 12 seconds pass? ESPECIALLY when they stand still in a doorway.
you don't have to tunnel in order to win. you can also only hook two survivors in exchange constantly. that's no tunneling and still will give you a win if you are good enough or the map god is on your side. if you get bad map rng or toxic survivors you will almost always lose. besides that basekit mori shall be in the game anywhere in the future. if you get all downed u just have to kill one person and all others die if you downed them. so it doesn't matter what safety net they previously had. if you manage to down them (despite ds and off the record not even working in the endgame) you'll win still. the perks i have mentioned are there just to secure you don't directly go for the person that got unhooked and also that u don't stand there at the hook the whole time. kinship only works when a survivor is near and standing there without unhooking only makes sense if the killer is face camping. reassurance serves the same purpose. if the killer stands there doing nothing, but face camping then the camped survivor at least gets some points because u as killer could go for other survivors instead. ds would ensure that u don't go for the unhooked even though many killers still do it nonetheless and ds got hugely nerfed that with a strong killer you don't even get anywhere safe even if u stunned the killer with ds. off the record serves the same purpose of not being able to be tunneled. while your off the record is on you can't perform any conspicuous actions or it will wear off. all of these perks can't be abused in any way. they only serve the purpose for a healthy match and i have already suggested multiple times that all survivor items except for brown items should be removed entirely the same as all killer addons except the brown ones and then implement certain addons as basekit into killers. therefore one the one hand balancing would be a piece of cake and on the other hand there wouldn't be totally garbage killers and very strong killers with very strong addons like double range nurse (which got nerfed), tombstone myers being able to kill you right away even though they did nothing in that match just to name a few.
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@mr_Beast_Artist said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/365613/my-solution-to-camping-and-tunneling
enough base Ds to stop tunneling
well with the current nerfed ds it wouldn't even stop tunneling, but it would be a step into the right direction. additionally just ds wouldn't address the excessive face camping problem in this game. you can't do anything at all if a bubba face camps you in basement or stands right in front of you with his chainsaw. you can't do anything if a doctor face camps you constantly shocking the people who want to unhook. you can't do anything about an artist camping the hook while shooting birds across the map with dead man's switch to pressure gens and the hook at the same time. all the above has to be basekit. ds is nowhere near enough to prevent tunneling and camping in this game.
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@TragicSolitude said:
Today has been a prime reminder of why survivor freaking sucks. 9/10 matches I get teammates who won't participate. They do nothing but crouch around. They hide in lockers, even getting three crows, and the killer ignores them. I had a Kate who camped an exit gate from the beginning of the match, just kept getting in and out of lockers to avoid AFK crows. Lots of sandbagging. I dodge any lobby with a Leon, now, because every single one today has been a troll; the worst one dropped pallets on teammates to make sure they went down, and the killer rewarded him with the hatch at the end. The number of times I've died with over 20k BP while the remaining survivors in the match had 5k BP is soul-crushing.
I wish survivors would stop playing for the hatch from the moment the match starts. So many do that. Or they're just breezing through matches by letting everyone else do the gens and then waltzing out the exit gates. What the hell can I do when my friend dies and we see that one survivor has three birds and another (with Left Behind) is doing nothing but crouching around in bushes? What magic am I supposed to perform to eek out a black pip?
Why do so many survivors queue up to do literally nothing?
I'm exhausted. Survivors make playing survivor miserable. If I could team up with bots instead of people, I would.
This is why I have so much trouble pipping up. Every time I get one pip away it's like the game knows and it sticks me in match after match after match with non-participatory players. If BHVR doubled or even tripled the number of pips necessary but got rid of de-pipping, I'd be able to rich Iri 1. That's how bad this is.
Whatever, de-pipping worked: I'm fully demotivated. Now I'm playing zombie-killer Nemmie for the double XP and staying far away from survivors. (I can't pip up on the Switch as killer. Even without de-pipping I probably wouldn't reach Iri 1. It'd be nice to reach Silver or Gold, though. My Switch killer ends every reset at the bottom of Bronze.)
yeah i can totally relate to that. 9/10 matches i play are exactly like that and it feels like i'm the only person still playing the game like it's supposed to be played. either i'm getting face camped, tunneled or i have to deal with teammates intentionally throwing by doing nothing or sabotaging the game in any other way. it's totally frustrating and the most annoying part about it is that you personally get punished for the mistakes or toxic behavior of other people! you are the person losing a pip for that! it's total bullshit and behavior has to fix this asap, but they won't do because they don't care about their community!
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3356136#Comment_3356136
Its not a bug, it's intended
But I suppose if BHVR were to reply they would say..
"Git gud"
i don't care if it's a bug or not. behavior has to fix this! there is no way around and more importantly it doesn't even serve a purpose! it maybe had a purpose when there were still ranks who defined who you get paired with even though that didn't even work at all, but now it has no sense at all. behavior should remove this asap, but they don't care. that's the sad situation! behavior does what they think is cool and don't change the things the community wants/need or things that have to be changed. it's extremely frustrating to see that nothing is done at all. nothing is done about face camping or tunneling and nothing is done about losing pips while you get face camped, tunneled or due a dc or whatever even when it's not your fault. i have just lost a pip in a match as killer because i had my game froze for whatever reason. i just dropped down a lawnmower on coldwind and my game froze. i was stuck in an endless loop of audio and visual bug. the worst part though was that i was punished for an error behavior caused! what did i lose the pip for? for behavior not coding their game right and resulting in me having a bug?! ######### remove losing pips already!
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when will behavior finally start doing something about this ######### problem?! how many more screenshots of this problem do i have to post until they finally take action fixing this?!
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@Deathstroke said:
If this would be added gens will have to be increased to 120s as well.
yeah i wouldn't have a problem with that. when i play as killer i mostly feel like survivors are gen rushing their way through the trial even when i have strong gen regression or protection perks. i mean prove thyself wasn't addressed/nerfed at all, but perks like pop goes the weasel and now eruption have been.
just to clear things out i play both survivor and killer. so i can speak for both sides on a fair base.
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@dbd900bach said:
This is a game design issue that can't really be fixed without seriously reworking the nature of the game.
These changes would need to rework a ton of perks and perks that can be paired to avoid survivors abusing these new base mechanics. Secondly like all second chance perks, if not used by endgame, they will be disabled.
On the killers end there is glaring issue of ignoring "nice guy" playstyle. Generally in more serious lobbies with good survivors, killers who don't tunnel and don't camp lose more often then they win because they refused to tunnel and camp.
It's a viable strategy, that's just the way the game is designed and is sometimes necessary to secure a win which most people want.
it's true that it's a game mechanic, but everything can be addressed and also changed. they devs should need to do something about that and not ignore it. there would nothing be to abuse. the only thing that could be abused which is already abused at its current state is ppl with off the record blocking the killer from going after other players...especially paired with ds to ensure these killers waste time, but this could also be addressed by something a content creator has already suggested...remove collision for players who have just been unhooked until they perform conspicuous actions. then you don't have to deal with these annoying survivors who want to abuse such mechanics just to ######### you up while you can still keep a layer of protection for survivors who don't want to abuse these mechanics and just keep them for their own safety like it should be.
if ppl had basekit reassurance, kinship, off the record and ds face camping or tunneling wouldn't be a valid tactic anymore. therefore would have to go for other players. i can't count the times i have been face camped at 1st hook til i died after boring 3 minutes hanging on the hook or being tunneled out of the game being the only person hooked. i have just had such a game today or rather multiple games like that. my teammates showed themselves and weren't hiding, but the killer still went for me all game long. the result was 4 ppl leaving the trial and me with 2 hooks states as the only survivor in that trial. so was it really worth it trying to tunnel me out of the game? i doubt it and it's no fun for both sides i'd say except for those bullies that are already in the game enjoying to torture other ppl, but these will remain in every game no matter what.