Pulsar
Pulsar
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3966812#Comment_3966812
He is still mediocre killer you just cant bodyblock without consequences or heal under hook wheres doors right next to it, there are even better killers for tunneling.
Obviously, Nurse is a better tunneler. Obviously, Blight is a better tunneler. Outside of S-tiers, he's pretty damn good at it.
Springtrap bypasses BT, anti-camp and because of his Axe, he doesn't really get slowed down when he hits someone off of hook.
I really don't understand why you're so resistant to slowing him down when he exits a door next to hook.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3966703#Comment_3966703
It wont but now he isnt best tunneler anyway and all that depends on rng when doors spawn next to the hook and survivors just can move few meters and dont heal under hook if they think he will come back and try to tunnel or go after rescuer because he didnt found anybody, personaly I dont think he even needs that he cant camp in the doors either theres anticamp so he must move away to other doors and then come back which isnt that fast and survivors can just run away. On xeno theres more need for this because he can wait under the tunnel and see whos coming if the hook is near but still he doesnt need that either this is just something from old times and maybe after new anticamp and antitunnel changes there wont be need for slowing killers mobility throught his portals when coming back to the hook, just wait with what devs will come out and then look if this change is realy necessary.
He's a pretty damn good tunneler. The lack of slowdown from successful Axe hits is a problem, but I don't really know how to tackle it.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3966670#Comment_3966670
Maybe same as xeno but first I think we should wait for phase two and see what changes will be there, doing this before phase two can be just nerfing/fixing issue that can be already fixed (same as 3 genning nefing kicking perks and butchering skullmerchant just to give gens maximum number they can be damaged and then theres no way to regress them anymore).
I don't really see why.
Giving him a slowdown when he TP's to a hook isn't going to break his kit.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3966526#Comment_3966526
Some doors are good (the ones on the hill facing hooks or near hooks,key gens) but some suck like the one in the main on greeville uknow version it spawns wa away from the gen so its easy to prerun and you can hesr his loud footsteps trough floors pretty easy.
Just slow down his exit animation if he is near the hook.
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@OrangeBear said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3966298#Comment_3966298
So give them 3+ seconds to react after the unhook happens? So the killer would just be waiting, doing nothing far away until you unhook instead of chasing another survivor. It doesn't seem necessary to me.
Not all doors face hooks.
Considering how easily the axe allows you to tunnel, I think not letting him TP two inches from the hook is not too much to ask for.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3966239#Comment_3966239
He cant do that though, if he's in a door next to a hook they still get anti camp
Why would he need to be in the door next to hook? All he has to do is walk away, get in a door and wait for the unhook, then TP back to hook.
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I'd change his door interactions. He shouldn't be allowed to hook someone next to a door and circumvent anti-camp by hiding in the door. Move Hooks away from Doors.
I don't even know how to tackle how adept he is at tunneling because of the Axe.
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Definitely don't need to buff gen kick perks again, we've already been down that road.
CoB and Overcharge should both be reworked.
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@Evan_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3964894#Comment_3964894
The time of a hook-state was changed to 70 seconds from 60 in Patch 8.2.0
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3964889#Comment_3964889
"Basekit Reassurance". Hope me saying it out loud helped you in some manner.
Although I went a bit off-topic here. I personally don't think killer "suddenly" got harder as this thread implies. Ever since I follow feedback of this game, there were people claiming that <their preferred side> is becoming so hard to play, while <the other side> have never been so easy. Now I acknowledge it as a constant.
That isn't basekit Reassurance lmao.
That's ten seconds on a hook stage to try to limit camping.
Hope that helps you in some manner.
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@terumisan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3964346#Comment_3964346
??? pop is the weakest it's ever been wym? ever since 6.0 it's been garbage since rhey changed total to current it's never been worth running also outside of corrupt and dms they all have a hard limit at 8 kicks (4 for eruption) and corrupt should've been basekit back in 6.0 since that's the patch where it goes away when you down someone
Bro did NOT read the conversation. This is about the perk lineup immediately post 6.1
Pop wasn't strong on it's own, but it worked incredibly well with the strongest perks, like CoB, Overcharge and Eruption.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3964484#Comment_3964484
That is not a comparison I would make, friend. Legion's kill rates may not have been as high, but they were genuinely problematic for the game, simply because their kit had no counter. There was literally nothing you could do against Legion, once they decided you would go down, you would go down. The same doesn't apply to Skull Merchant 2.0, who had counter play.
Well, Legion's changes to me felt more like adjustments, but the core idea of running around and stabbing people remained the same. That can't be said for SM's design previews, who will end up giving her a dash and a mid-range M2 attack. That, my dear friend, is a full erasure of identity. The design previews will never be well received because the whole point is that SM players have to be taken into consideration, and erasing her identity completely is something that none of them, myself included these days, want. Obviously there are those who would prefer to never see her again, but that is just personal preference towards the game. I would love to never play against Wesker again, but I don't want him gutted for that to happen.
I would argue that her identity isn't problematic at all, imo. A killer with an AoE trap can work because SM 2.0 did work, and could have remained in the game. Would have, had people adapted and taken their time to realize that the killer was fine. Ghoul, the other character you've mentioned, I agree, he is overpowered. But the difference is that Skull Merchant couldn't disregard everything, even with the haste and hindered effects she had to deal with survivor's resources. Ghouls doesn't have to.
Yes, my friend, I do believe BHVR was supposed to leave it there because the number wasn't caused by her kit. Just like Freddy's incredibly high kill rates before the buff. The kill rates are caused by several other factors.
As far as my understanding goes, Skull Merchant 2.0 fixed the problem with 3 gens, and gave her a power that worked for chases, which is what some people wanted in the first place. Her kit can appear bloated at first glance, much like Vecna's for instance, but in reality it was perfectly possible to understand it and play around it. Personally, she really grew on me and became one of my favorite killers in the game, to play as and against. And, regarding effort, that goes for pretty much every killer in modern DBD: the survivor role can require more effort than killer because of how the game has been since the whole process of making killers deadlier, but that has nothing to do with SM.
I strongly support a full reversion, my friend, and really don't think it will make games miserable. Some people won't like it, of course, just like I didn't like Freddy's changes earlier this year after insisting on this topic for years, but unfortunately you can't please everyone.
All things considered, this is the best option, friend.
She had the same problem. If she wanted you down, you'd go down. You were forced to deal with the Drone at the loop by either running away and taking an M1 or being killed in the loop because she had every status effect in the game applied. It might take a while, but she'd get you down and there was no possible counterplay while you were being chased.
I am sure the OG Legion players felt the same way, but unhealthy designs remain unhealthy, even if you enjoy them. For example, I enjoy playing current Legion. That doesn't mean I think he's well-designed. Besides, Legion's entire gameplay loop changed, just as SM's will.
It worked for you. That doesn't mean it worked for the community at large. By the metrics we have access to, she didn't work at all. Could've, should've, would've. There's no hard data or evidence in that.
Asking BHVR, and the community, to leave a Killer alone at 70% because you like them is silly. Put it in any other context, "Just because Ghoul has a 70% KR doesn't mean he needs to be changed, people just need to get used to him/stop giving up/stop not liking him." The only difference is that you like SM and don't like Ghoul, and that is changing your perspective.
And how many people not liking it is worth it to you?
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3964369#Comment_3964369
Well, dearest friend, we usually agree on most things in here, but I'm afraid this will remain a point of disagreement.
I wouldn't compare Legion's original design with Skull Merchant's current situation for a variety of reasons. First, Legion's problematic release doesn't match Skull Merchant 2.0, as she no longer caused an actual problem for the game the same way Legion or her own release did. Second, Legion did keep their identity: fundamentally, they are a killer who moves fast and injures people. Skull Merchant is risking a complete loss of identity, judging by the two design previews which, as far as I know, were not well-received. For good reason, I might add.
I strongly believe she has to retain her identity as an AoE set up trap killer. That shouldn't even be a point of discussion, in my honest opinion, friend.
And yes, her kill rate was high. However, they do not reveal the full picture, at all. Remember, pre-buff Freddy was one of the deadliest killers in the game, and his power was terrible. Skull Merchant's kill rates were always influenced by the hook suicides and DCs (which, as we know friend, were caused by those who refused to adapt after the problematic release was fixed), because how are you supposed to learn how to counter the killer if your teammates just leave? And we also have those scenarios where people don't allow others to hook suicide. That can happen, often in fact, and also alters the kill rates. Plus, her kit was good. Not overpowered, but good. That also makes it high.
To be honest, my friend, the only problem I see with her 2.0 design were people DCing. In games where everyone did stay she was perfectly fine and fair to go against. I even have screenshots of victories against her then, if needed. Maybe a full return won't happen simply because BHVR rarely ever does it, but I strongly support it.
OG Legion was, somehow, objectively in a better place than SM 2.0. He didn't have a 70% KR.
Saying he kept his identity is like saying that because the design previews of SM still use Drones, she's still the same. Legion's playstyle was completely changed, just like SM's playstyle will be completely changed. The design previews were mixed. There were the die-hard SM defenders, who see a return to SM 2.0 as the only path forward. Then you have the people who didn't really care and give decent feedback over the kits as they were presented. Then you had the people who didn't want SM changed because they like how she is now, nonexistent.
Her identity is objectively problematic, imo. If you want to keep her identity, you must accept she will never be viable. A Killer with a lockdown AoE is either going to be far too strong (been there) or far too weak (here now). Ironically, this is just like Legion, and more recently, Ghoul. A Killer that gets free injuries cannot be balanced. They will only ever be too strong (Ghoul) or too weak (Legion). Doesn't mean they can't be fun to play (both Ghoul and Legion are fun to play imo).
Her kit was bloated beyond belief. She shouldn't have been called SM at that point, but just, Status Effect Merchant. Once again, disregarding suicides and DC's, her KR was 70%. BHVR was just supposed to leave that there?
The problem with her 2.0 design was that it fixed pretty much nothing. She was bloated, poorly thought-out and exceedingly tedious/unpleasant to play against. Even SM 1.0 was beatable. Nobody wanted to play chess for an hour to get an escape. The effort you had to put in as SM was laughable compared to how much effort you had to put in as a Survivor.
We don't need "place drone at loop, leave loop and get hit or die" and "place drone on gen, ignore? get hit when she comes to check her drone. disable drone? she replaces it immediately" to come back into play.
Bringing her back as SM 2.0 will make the vast majority of players far more miserable.
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3964371#Comment_3964371
Sure, but before, was it really worth doing it? Were people actually having fun?
Now it's much "easier". Some maps are ridiculous with the gens spawn
And they weren't back then?
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3964363#Comment_3964363
Its still possible to hold a 3-gen
You just need 10 minutes until abandon and be victorious
Far more difficult with the gen blocking. It is nothing like it was.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3963727#Comment_3963727
That isn't the case here, though. Here it is the case of a killer who got unnecessarily nerfed and is constantly at risk of having her identity erased because of an unreasonable and unacceptable "hate train" caused by a problematic release, despite the fact that the problems caused by said release had already been fixed.
You know me, friend. You know I don't disregard the survivor experience. And, speaking as someone who enjoys playing as and against Skull Merchant, I strongly support a full return to her previous iteration, that we had before the nerfs.
She isn't going to keep her identity. I hate to break it to everyone, but there isn't a way to salvage it. It'd be like trying to salvage original Legion's identity. He was originally a rush-down Killer that stabbed the same Survivor multiple times, there was no way for it to work, so they needed to change him. And he sucked, for literal years. There were zero changes, not even bug fixes, for over two years. After all of that, he still sucks to play against, but he's fun to play at least.
The same will be true of SM. She may still use Drones, but I highly doubt that she'll be an AoE trap Killer.
Even the state that you want her reverted to had a 70% KR without Hook Suicides or DC's. The majority of the community hates her, the stan club doesn't help, and she genuinely was overperforming. There were clearly problems with her design, even then. A full return is out of the question, that'd be PR suicide to bring back an objectively OP and nearly universally reviled Killer.
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3964346#Comment_3964346
But since then
-Coldwind and Haddonfield was heavily nerfed for survivors
-Flashlights were nerfed and locker saved removed. Lightburn also removed from all killers
-Maps reduced in size such as Borgo, Eyrie of Crows and Red Forest
-Killers got basekit Shadowborn
-Medkits were nerfed along with its add-ons
-Distortion nerfed and many aura reading killer perks buffed and new ones introduced
-Hooks respawn
-Mori reworked to kill the last survivor, all survivors in the dying state as well
-Removal of koby giving a second chance for survivorsAmong other things that I might be forgetting
None of that matters because gen perks could be applied indefinitely and holding a 3-gen for an hour was completely doable.
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3964322#Comment_3964322
Ruin undying definitely not, unless it was back when Ruin had to do with great skill checks, but that era was not killer sided at all
Gen kick was only strong for killers because of Eruption. Still, not as strong as today.CoB, Overcharge, Eruption, Pop, PR, Corrupt, DMS.
Far stronger than what we have today. That was the strongest Killer has ever
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Boil Over.
No Mither.
Deadlock.
DMS.
Insidious.
Every Invocation.
Dead Hard.
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probably isn't any different than normal.
Sometimes difficult, usually easy, rarely impossible.
60% target ensures most Killers will have a fairly easy time.
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@Skeleton23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3964038#Comment_3964038
Mhm because I'm not wasting my time with the conversation. Me saying Cool is me ending it because it's not going anywhere and it's just wasting everyone's time.
I mean your follow-up was to call someone an entitled Survivor main.
We weren't exactly promoting conversation prior to this either.
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Google AI to support your argument is crazy.
Gotta be one of the worst responses I've seen recently.
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She needs a complete ground-up rework that buffs her. Not just flat buffs.
They aren't going to bring back an extremely hated Killer with a 70% KR.
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@Coffee2Go said:
@Pulsar what do you think about this, it would help with making him a true boogeyman, mask his breathing.
Not too shabby
Tbh I'd just buff Tier 1 to 115% if it isn't already.
Lower Tier 2 to 4m TR.
Give Tier 3 a moderate break speed buff.
Michael just doesn't have any map pressure and none of this fixes that. He'd be solidly B-tier if he had any map pressure at all.
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@Haildamage93 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3962770#Comment_3962770
You are certainly NOT guaranteed two deaths per trial. I've said this before to people in these forums, hyperbole DOES NOT help when you are trying to have a debate, or discussion about any topic. Making hyperbolic statements such as "Guaranteed two deaths per trial." makes it difficult to believe you. I'm not 100% sure what you're 2nd line of text is supposed to mean, but if you're saying every survivor has less than a 50% escape rate that is objectively untrue. Finally, let's be honest general outcries are FAR from objective. I'm not trying to berate you or anything of the sort. I was just hoping you had some kind of objective metric for which you were making your claim.
Every single Survivor grouping (Solo, Duo, Trio and 4--man) at both All MMR and High MMR have a sub 50% Escape Rate.
By design, BHVR wants two Survivors to die in the average trial. If we look on Nightlight, huge grain of salt, 2K'S are the least likely outcome. 4Ks are the most common and 0Ks and 3Ks are about the same. 1Ks are also relatively uncommon, but not so much as 2Ks.
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@Mr_K said:
If they came up with more than 5 it would start to posion the bloodweb. So more than likely, they just split the addon count between two items keeping the overall addon count the same as before.
Maybe they should start removing awful BP offerings instead.
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Putting him above SM, Legion and Twins probably isn't fair.
His design is definitely better than those, but yeah, he's probably the strongest one still in the game.
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@Haildamage93 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3961814#Comment_3961814
People keep saying this but I have yet to have anyone back it up with evidence. Do you have any numbers, data that actually supports this claim? Genuinely asking. Because if it's solely based on the mult that survivors have right now, that happens with EVERY new killer release. Not to mention the simple fact you need four survivors to one killer. I was playing today and there was only a 1.25x mult as survivor, and my killer queue times were only about 3 minutes.
Guaranteed two deaths per trial.
Every single group of Survivor/MMR range is sub-50% ER.
The general outcry of Survivor.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3961811#Comment_3961811
Yeah, it's all justification.
It's like society, if you do something that is technically legal but violates the social contract, is it the institution's fault and not yours? Is the burden of responsibility for your bad behavior their fault? Of course not, that's absurd.
"I accept no fault for my misdeeds so long as the construct allows them to happen; blame the overlords" is sociopathic thinking. It's total abdication of personal accountability.
it certainly is an attempt at justification.
The lack of response is telling, they know it's a poor position to hold.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3962370#Comment_3962370
if this was the question:
So the majority of the community is lying when they say the game is unenjoyable due to X thing? We shouldn't even attempt to address common pain points, we should just go full-send into banning people?
Then I think I did answer. It's not whether or not the community is lying it that they are ruining matches for others over their complaints.
The second part was unanswered.
Should we go full-send into banning people, without looking at pain points, even if it means innocent players are caught in the crossfire?
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@Clevarz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3961709#Comment_3961709
I like the list despite being a legion main but I just do NOT like wraith😭😭
I like Wraith because he was the original invisible Killer.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3962024#Comment_3962024
To allow unacceptable behavor is to allow more of it to occur. You can make your complaints here on the forums and other social media but don't be ruining other players experience for your protest ingame.
Notably didn't answer the question.
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MY GLORIOUS KING DISSOLUTION
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3961709#Comment_3961709
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3961715#Comment_3961715
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3961728#Comment_3961728
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3961736#Comment_3961736
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3961826#Comment_3961826
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3961845#Comment_3961845
Thank you very much for your replies, my friends, I sincerely appreciate them!
After going through everyone's lists here it is really interesting how different the perspectives are. Skull Merchant, that I have in my highest tier @Pulsar has on his lowest, while the character I hate most is one of @ImWinston 's favorites.
But I did notice the similarities: @LegacySmikey shared hatred for Wesker, my dearest friend, truly an insufferable killer. And it also seems Bubba ranks reasonably high on literally every list so far. So does Myers, actually. Ghouls seems disliked, overall, but didn't always make it to the bottom of the lists.
No surprise SM is near the bottom of my list.
Sort of feel bad for her mains though, well, just not the weird ones. Kinda like the few that called themselves Twins mains for the time after their release til their failed rework. Felt bad for them.
Doesn't mean the Killer isn't still absolute cheeks to play against though.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3961811#Comment_3961811
Got it so, i purchased the video game, which means you are allowed to tell me how i should play said video game.
Can you tell me what perks i'm allowed to use too?
So you never responded to this, and I'm genuinely interested in where the line is.
I'd like to hear you defend this.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3961917#Comment_3961917
I'm saying there isn't an improvement that can be made. Anyone that just stands still and taps a gen not to get crows is unreasonable. They want to be the one that always escapes or always 4Ks.
A system to get rid of them can and did go wrong and punish a lot of innocents. There are a few ideas that would work better that if an innocent player does get hit doesn't affect them for too long. These are ideas for in match behavor and not DCs.
- A posion queue or a queue where a system has labeled bad actors. They have to play nicely with other bad actors in order to escape the queue.
- Instead of punishing for one instance in one match, look at a history of matches and see if a pattern exists.
Clearly a system that punishes for being tunneled out is at fault. But one that looks at a broad history could filter out those false positives.
So the majority of the community is lying when they say the game is unenjoyable due to X thing? We shouldn't even attempt to address common pain points, we should just go full-send into banning people?
Feels like that's all your proposing. Ignore the issues, beat people down until they quit.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3961891#Comment_3961891
That system was pulled. Like we agree, was a failure best to be tested before bringing live.
And I am saying that, as predicted, the system is only shifting how people give up. You said we should get rid of those players too, but any system that does that effectively will also grab plenty of completely innocent players as well.
So I propose we actually try to improve the game, then see what happens.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3961865#Comment_3961865
Actually, 2ks would be the most common outcome with a 60% kill rate (average 2.4K per match). But there are some people who think the game is “unbalanced” if they don’t get EZ escapes and get to t-bag killer at the gate in 98% of their matches. Fortunately BHVR doesn’t make their balance decisions based on the fringe outliers on both sides who have wildly unrealistic expectations.
According to NightLight, which you know grain of salt, 4K's are the most common distribution of Kills. 2K's are actually the smallest distribution of Kills.
Ultimately, until BHVR says something, all we know is that two Survivors are guaranteed to lose by design.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3961828#Comment_3961828
Why do they continue to play when they know if something doesn't go right they will just stand still and wait? Why should those types be catered to? Why should the enjoyment of players that want to play end up second fiddle to those that scream and kick? No, let them tantrum and burn out.
If the goal is strictly escape or give up then they mistaken what the game is about. Not every game you will escape. Even in OP's 50/50 two are going to die. But some don't want to be one of those two, so they give up and kill the whole team. If there is any mistake here, it's allowing this mentality to fester this long.
Uh, because any system that actually meaningfully punishes them also equally actively meaningfully punishes innocent players…like we literally just saw.
If banning innocent players doesn't bother you, I think we're done here lol.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3961838#Comment_3961838
Again, that post is specifically talking about content creators specificaly.
Well, I feel like it's an important clarification.
Is it the act of purposefully making someone DC or is it posting about it that makes it toxic?
Or does this fall under your "I bought the game, I can do whatever I want" thing
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3961833#Comment_3961833
This is talking about content creators specifically. But good job taking it out of context.
Also if you find something i posted years ago that is something i may or may not believe anymore that also won't help you much.
So is it fine to make people DC or is it just posting it that's bad?
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3961818#Comment_3961818
Anti-GoNext in terms of detecting AFK or attempting to get killed was a failure. Simply we got BHVR'd. Is there a way to make a system with those goals? I believe there is. Not one that uses one match but over the course of many. Maybe one that doesn't give a penalty but a special queue with others like them.
Punishing DCs and removing the killing of one's self on hook is not a failure. Such a system did bring resistance from those that did that very thing but why should that be tolerated? Either they learn this is a multiplayer game or move on to something they actually enjoy playing.
It should not have been done first, but rather last. Massively punishing people, making them arbitrarily stay on the menu in order for the timer to count down, all while the state of the game is lackluster is incredibly tone-deaf, imo.
Likewise, if someone is dead at 5 gens, I don't feel like it is unreasonable to want to speed up a doomed match. Certainly, that isn't an uncommon occurrence, but that has been removed as well.
We are already seeing exactly what I said would happen in response to this system. People are just giving up in other ways, you haven't even attempted to fix the problem, just the symptoms. You'll continue to play wack-a-mole with players until you've caught so many in the crossfire that there aren't any left.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3961811#Comment_3961811
Got it so, i purchased the video game, which means you are allowed to tell me how i should play said video game.
Can you tell me what perks i'm allowed to use too?
You really do not want to commit to that line of thinking, trust me. Buying the game does not make you able to play however you want.
There are rules with how you can play.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3961814#Comment_3961814
You don't think:
- Anti-camp
- Anti-tunnel
- Anti-slug
- Anti-go next
Are not part of that?
We have no idea what those systems are.
Anti-GoNext was a colossal failure. It has done far more harm than good, and I hope they've taken the advice given into consideration.
Anti-Camp forced Killers to back up six feet from the hook, which is cool but the outcome has remained the same. If the Killer wants you to stay on the hook, you are going to stay.
Anti-Slug and Anti-Tunnel haven't been revealed, but considering the absolute travesty of the anti-GoNext and the uselessness of Anti-Camp, I don't think many people are hopeful.
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@Crowman said:
I remember when killers across the board had close to a 50% kill rate via BHVR's stats. Nobody wanted to play killer and it caused the devs to introduce 6.1 patch.
There's a reason 60/40 is the ideal mark and it has to do with the fact it's a asymmetric game.
We've seemingly entered the same era for Survivor.
So, what's to be done about it, I wonder.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3961758#Comment_3961758
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3961764#Comment_3961764
Let me put it this way.
If i'm playing say, street fighter, and playing against my opponent, and i find out that my opponent is really bad at dealing with throws. And so i throw them 10 times in a row. Some might call that "cheap" some might say its "unfair" some might say i'm "spamming" or "being toxic". But is it really? The point is, what if slugging all 4 survivors, what if throwing 10 times in a row, what if throwing 100 fireballs in a row is strategically the thing that optimizes my chances for winning?
What if, as a killer, i see that my opponents are really bad at dealing with being slugged. Maybe i realize they didn't bring perks to counter it, maybe i realized that they just don't know how to counter the strategy. Why would i not do that thing? Why would i play a game that is about winning and losing in a way that makes it so i have less of a chance of winning, if winning is what my goal is?
Now maybe someone might have a goal that is different from winning or losing, sure, that is entirely possible. But someone might have that goal. If they do, who are you to say how they should work toward achieveing that victory?
Thinking that person is toxic, is a "Scrub" mindset. Not the word "scrub" as an insult, but as a description. I suggest reading the free e-book by game designer David Sirlin, Playing to Win:
Here is an excerpt from that book:
The derogatory term “scrub” means several different things. One definition is someone (especially a game player) who is not good at something (especially a game). By this definition, we all start out as scrubs, and there is certainly no shame in that. I mean the term differently, though. A scrub is a player who is handicapped by self-imposed rules that the game knows nothing about. A scrub does not play to win.
Now, everyone begins as a poor player—it takes time to learn a game to get to a point where you know what you’re doing. There is the mistaken notion, though, that by merely continuing to play or “learn” the game, one can become a top player. In reality, the “scrub” has many more mental obstacles to overcome than anything actually going on during the game. The scrub has lost the game even before it starts. He’s lost the game even before deciding which game to play. His problem? He does not play to win.
The scrub would take great issue with this statement for he usually believes that he is playing to win, but he is bound up by an intricate construct of fictitious rules that prevents him from ever truly competing. These made-up rules vary from game to game, of course, but their character remains constant. Let’s take a fighting game off of which I’ve made my gaming career: Street Fighter.
In Street Fighter, the scrub labels a wide variety of tactics and situations “cheap.” This “cheapness” is truly the mantra of the scrub. Performing a throw on someone is often called cheap. A throw is a special kind of move that grabs an opponent and damages him, even when the opponent is defending against all other kinds of attacks. The entire purpose of the throw is to be able to damage an opponent who sits and blocks and doesn’t attack. As far as the game is concerned, throwing is an integral part of the design—it’s meant to be there—yet the scrub has constructed his own set of principles in his mind that state he should be totally impervious to all attacks while blocking. The scrub thinks of blocking as a kind of magic shield that will protect him indefinitely. Why? Exploring the reasoning is futile since the notion is ridiculous from the start.
You will not see a classic scrub throw his opponent five times in a row. But why not? What if doing so is strategically the sequence of moves that optimizes his chances of winning? Here we’ve encountered our first clash: the scrub is only willing to play to win within his own made-up mental set of rules. These rules can be staggeringly arbitrary. If you beat a scrub by throwing projectile attacks at him, keeping your distance and preventing him from getting near you—that’s cheap. If you throw him repeatedly, that’s cheap, too. We’ve covered that one. If you block for fifty seconds doing no moves, that’s cheap. Nearly anything you do that ends up making you win is a prime candidate for being called cheap. Street Fighter was just one example; I could have picked any competitive game at all.
Doing one move or sequence over and over and over is a tactic close to my heart that often elicits the call of the scrub. This goes right to the heart of the matter: why can the scrub not defeat something so obvious and telegraphed as a single move done over and over? Is he such a poor player that he can’t counter that move? And if the move is, for whatever reason, extremely difficult to counter, then wouldn’t I be a fool for not using that move? The first step in becoming a top player is the realization that playing to win means doing whatever most increases your chances of winning. That is true by definition of playing to win. The game knows no rules of “honor” or of “cheapness.” The game only knows winning and losing.
A common call of the scrub is to cry that the kind of play in which one tries to win at all costs is “boring” or “not fun.” Who knows what objective the scrub has, but we know his objective is not truly to win. Yours is. Your objective is good and right and true, and let no one tell you otherwise. You have the power to dispatch those who would tell you otherwise, anyway. Simply beat them.
Sounds like an awful lot of defense of a poor position.
But hey, you've shown excellently who the reasonable party is. We have Side A, which believes there is no toxicity in Ba Sing Se and Side B, who acknowledges said toxicity and tries, if misguidedly, to do something about it.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3961749#Comment_3961749
some say the nightfall groans are actually the cries of pain from people like Pulsar who get headaches from the power as well as the lamentations of people suffering from sunglare on their TVs
They are.
His whole power is wildly overstimulating. Like pre-rework Doctor, when he had all that stuff that'd pop up on your screen.
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Does this mean Xbox is fixed?
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3961729#Comment_3961729
Playing the video game is not toxic.
4 man slugging til bleedout isn't toxic apparently.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3961709#Comment_3961709
Reading your 'Absolute hatred' tier and I was nodding along until I saw Dredge
What's your beef with Dredge? I'm guessing Accessibility related stuff? He's not exactly as oppressive or strong as the others in that tier
Yeah. He triggers super bad headaches for me so I seriously consider walking away whenever it's him. Luckily for me, he isn't common.
But yeah he's an accessibility nightmare