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@ShrimpTwiggs said:
I think the ones that are opposites are coincidental. I mean, the Huntress and David aren't similar, but they aren't opposites either. The original three killers and four survivors aren't exactly opposites either.@MegaWaffle said:
@fisher8257 said:
Another example is the Nurse being so hard working that she snapped and killed everyone while Nea is a “ Rebel “ and has no responsibilities at all. Also I can’t spell for some reasonThe Doctor spent years perfecting his medical....yes medical career and Feng Min dropped out of school and became a professional gamer.
Jake lives in the woods secluded in nature away from his rich parents while Wraith was poor and desperate and got a job crushing cars in a city.
Meg is all about running and sports while Trapper is all about getting you to stop goddamn it!
No I do not believe that they are meant to represent opposites and I honestly just believe its way to simple to focus/point out traits that conflict with one another.
Maybe the opposite survivor is supposed to directly conflict with there opposite killer? Maybe at the start the devs thought that the survivor related to the killer could be the most effective against them, but then gave up on the idea but kept the lore they had made? Who knows...
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Do we know what happened to any of the previous survivors apart from benedick?
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Also is it just me or is there something crossed out in red at the top of the tag? It's the most obvious on billy's.
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the 4 might be number of skins they are planning on releasing in a new event?
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Remember the space may just be part of the "design" it doesn't necessarily mean anything, it might just be there to make the tag more interesting. I know how lame that sounds, but not everything has meaning, lol.
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@ChesterTheMolester said:
ad19970 said:@Blueberry said:
The only Killers that really need to be adressed are LF and Freddy, the other ones suffer mostly from the same symptoms caused by the gen speeds.
Hell you could probably beat any nurse and billy main in the world when you are hellbent on blasting those gens.
Wraith is still too addon dependent, trapper is not even close to the other killers levels, Myers needs multi-stalk back and shouldn't be limited on stalk per player, Pig needs her crouch/ambush fixed and there are still quite a few ultra-rare addons for killers that are trash/should just be in their base kits (ex. Rule Set #2)
Agree on your points though.
I'm curious, if all these buffs were applied, do you still think there should be a gen rush nerf?
Because personally I think that if every killer was buffed to the level of clown or Hillbilly, a gen rush nerf would no longer be needed.
The way i see it is that we should be a bit more careful with it till game length has been adressed, except for Freddy and LF as they are broken and need a rework.
Is cannibal really bad enough that people thinks he needs a rework yet? His power and addons haven't really changed, the other killers have just been ultra buffed. I agree clown is good but still don't put him on the same level as billy and/ or Myres. Billy map control is next level stuff compared to clown and his killing potential is the same at least. Myres killing potential is insane and his tracking potential with his power is very good. His addons take him higher than billy. Agreed the map does make a difference, but still dont put him on the same level as the clown! Both far surpass him. Having said that the clown is also very good, don't get me wrong.
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@friendlykillermain said:
@HellDescent said:
@friendlykillermain said:
@HellDescent said:
I'm tired of them disappearing 50% of the time.cornfeilds make clown useless
Clown is a strong killer. That map will affect every killer negatively except billy.
yeah unless you play shape though stalking in the corn is pretty effective
Lmao you cant stalk through corn...
Thats why yamoka estate is absolutely CANCER HELP ME IM A SHAPE MAIN -
Your supposed to play clown by using his power (bottles) to divert and focus survivors to where you want them. Cutting off loops and blocking pallets with gas is the most effective use his power as opposed to directly hitting them. Sadly with the nerf survivors can now fast vaults windows while effected by the gas, but the slow down is still large enough to get a guaranteed hit in most cases. He is fast (same as normal killer) even though he look super thicc =D. This helps him guarantee those hits and makes chases very dangerous for survivors. There is also a notification when the survivors enters the gas radius, if they do not have calm spirit, which is useful for flushing out those survivors stealthing around the generators.
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@Soul_Consumption said:
I feel it should be
Nurse
Billy S+
SpiritHag
Huntress S
ClownDoc
Pig A
MyersWraith
Cannibal B
TrapperFreddy Bad
lol love your freddy bad.
I agree with most, however not with spirit, hag or myres.
I think hag and myres should be switched. Myres has massive chase and killing potential and his evil within can be used as tracking rather effectively. Hag, as I have rage commented before is TRASH. Her traps are distractions more than helps, can be easily stealthed through or burnt with one of the most used items in the game. She has no killing or tracking potential with a tiny FOV and a slower speed, relying on her traps and smaller terror radius to get kills, both easily countered. Hag is BULLIED at good ranks ffs!
Spirit I feel should be in s class as her power is purely for mind games and can be more harmful then helpful if the survivors know what they're doing. I have made previous posts on all of this so I don't want to repeat myself for other people who have read everything on this discussion. However, those are the main points. I do agree with this tier list more than the original, however. That one TRIGGERED me so hard :chuffed: -
@Wahara said:
My exact estimates in order of effectiveness once mastered:Nurse
Hillybilly
Hag
Spirit
Myers
Huntress
Doctor
Pig
Clown
Leatherface
Trapper
Wraith
FreddyBroken up specific tiers:
S+ Nurse
S: Billy
A+: Hag, Spirit
A: Myers and Huntress.
B+: Doctor and Pig.
B: Clown
C: Leather face and trapper
C-: Wraith and Freddy
Toss ups:
I had a hard time deciding whether to put hag over spirit, Myers over huntress, and doctor over pig. I chose the hag over the spirit in the end because she has more versatility insofar as her ability to adapt better to the flow of the game. If she's experienced has a decent grasp of the map, she can adjust her trap placement to survivor movement patterns. Her main weakness is that she can usually only defend one side of the map at a time, so she has to herd survivors to where she needs them to be in order to be a real master.
The spirit is great for her ability to have an extremely strong and fast early game advantage. The haunted ground + Ruin combo is fairly nice since it makes survivors more weary to destroy totems. She can almost always take advantage of that full minute and get someone down because of her speed. Where she falls short under the hag, though, is her ability to handle looping. Both killers can be looped, but the hag has more tools at her disposal to deal with it. She can set up traps, she can fake a trap, she has collision add ons, or can simply abandon the chase on a dime when someone else triggers a trap and suspects they might be an easier target.
The spirit only has two options: Out mind game the survivor and spirit fury.
Putting Myers over Huntress was also a hard decision. Ultimately, I chose Myers because he has much more versatility than Huntress. The evil with 3 lunge quickly ends mindgames at unsafe pallets. You also have to pay really close attention to how much power he has left to stalk from your team so you can know when it's safest to engage. The add ons you can combine to give him unlimited tier within 3 while at the same time shortening the duration it takes to get there make him virtually unstoppable since he can usually get there by the time the first generator is complete.
He also has utility even at Evil within 1, especially on maps like Lery's memorial institute. You can get 4k's simply by sneaking around and pulling people off generators. The Huntress, by comparison, can be equally deadly but she's too dependent on hatchets. Even in the hands of a master, the hit-boxes are pretty unreliable. The situations in which she runs out of hatchets and is forced to give up a chase to stock up hold her back.
Moving onto the The Doctor and The Pig. This one was probably the trickiest. Personally, I struggle more against the doctor than other killers because I'm a very stealth based survivor, so I might be a bit biased. Both have the ability to slow down games and the ability to soft counter looping. The doctor has his shock stun and Amanda can crouch ambush at unsafe pallets. The doctor's answer to looping is typically more effective, though. Amanda has to wait until she's chased you to a pallet where the survivor feels forced to play that game because they haven't spotted another pallet or can't make it there in time. Even at that, the speed of the ambush isn't a guarantee you're going to end the mind game quickly.
Her main utility is her zero terror radius crouch. It's excellent for catching survivors off guard or fooling them into thinking that you've left the hook just to sneak right back for the punish. It's also useful in chases if you can tell the survivor isn't looking behind them. Crouch and mislead them into believing you've abandoned the chase but are secretly watching them sprint behind some cover. The Doctor still outclasses her in that regard because he doesn't have to waste as much time, he can simply shock around if he loses or is about to lose the chase. Amanda's reverse bear traps are also very hit and miss. You rely on them to slow down the game or to catch survivors out in the open attempting to remove them, but the survivor may simply take their chances and work on generators. I often do this when I play against the pig because she'll assume I'm going to busy for awhile and not bother.
lmao, WHY is hag GOOD? #########? She SUCKS.
Everybody says she has good map control with her traps. However, this is so not true. Survivors can easily stealth past these if they're looking for them and they will be if they're decent, they can be destroyed by flashlights which are probably the most used item in the high ranks and even if they are triggered the survivors get a MASSIVE notification that they have been and this gives them enough time to sprint burst away. Agreed if the survivors suck she can generally get a free hit on them or if she has shackles, but neither are very common. Her traps are also very useful for distracting her: run towards her trapped hex totem during a chase or while somebody is going for a save and the killer will go for the totem 9/10 times.
In return for all of this the hag is slower, is short as hell making her FOV tiiiiiny and has a smaller terror radius.
The terror radius isn't a problem if your actively looking around, which you will be if your decent.
So yes hag might be good at low ranks, but she just gets bullied to hell in the high ranks. So why is she up there with hillbilly and Nurse!? #########? -
@Dabrownman1812 said:
SnakeSound222 said:I don't agree with Leatherface, Spirit, Pig, Clown, and Myers.
Clown should be behind Huntress because while his bottles slow the Survivor, they don't damage them. He still has to hit the Survivor.
Myers should be in A tier and behind Doctor. He suffers from the same weakness that every Killer except Nurse has, which is that it's easy to loop him. It's harder when he's at EW3, but still easy. If you stay out of his LoS, you can starve him of his Evil Within.
Pig should be at B tier and behind Myers. It is really easy to not have your RBT activate and simply looking around will help you when she's crouched.
I'd place Spirit somewhere in A tier (not sure where exactly, probably somewhere around Doc or Myers). The fact that you can hear her when she's phase walking makes it harder for her to sneak up on a Survivor and it's easier to mindgame her (run toward her husk in order to make her think that you're hiding somewhere). If she could see blood while phase walking I'd be more inclined to put her at high A tier or low S tier.
Leatherface can actually hit people without having to wait 3-9.5 seconds, so I would put him above Freddy (still in C tier).
The magic of clown vs hundress is that due to how is power hits he is more capable of securing hits and isn't useless without his projectiles.
I disagree with you analyze for Myres, doctor, spirit and Clown
First of all, Myres is definitely better than the doctor. Although The Doctors tracking potential is insane, The Doctor sucks as he lacks an ability to deal damage and apply pressure: he wastes too much time bringing survivors up to tier 3, and once he has he has no increased chase potential. I would probably place the doctor in B tier, where he is in this tier list. Myres, however, has tracking potential combined with his "killing" potential. Michael Myres power, evil within, improves his chase and downing potential the longer he "stalks" someone. However, it is also very useful for finding survivors as the points received when you stalk someone is a very good notification to where a survivor is. Myres, if you play him correctly, will not run out of evil within before either the survivors escape or he gets a 4k. The normal tactic is to save up your tier 3 until it worth using it e.g. your very close to a survivor in a chase. By using your evil within like this, even if they lose you it is very easy to stop loops with the increased vaulting speed and lunge range plus the exposed status effect. This makes jungle gyms and the killer shacks, as examples, unsafe as opposed to normally being one of the safest loops on the map. This all in all makes, in my opinion, Myres literally one of the best killers, maybe even s+ class in the right hands.
Anyways onto the clown.
The 2 statements you make about the clown vs the huntress in your post literally contradict themselves. First, you say that the clown is worse because huntresses hatchets do damage and his bottles don't, which is a completely invalid argument, but ill get to that, and then you go on to say that clown is better at securing hits.
You are literally saying the Huntress is better because she does can injure survivors more easily, before saying the clown is more capable of securing hits? What?
In my opinion, the clown is a better killer than the Huntress. The main benefits of the Huntress are her ability to injure survivors from a distance and end loops easily. So in the long range distance sense it isn't exactly fair to compare the two: the clown is not made to be able to start long range chases. However in all other instances, the clown is better, or should I say less balanced. Because that is the main problem with the Huntress: She is SO well balanced. In exchange for projectile ability, she has a slower movement speed, a long reload time, which can only be accomplished in certain areas, and a direction specific, longer terror radius: her lullaby. She wastes much time reloading at lockers, can't finish a chase if out of hatchets and alerts the survivors where exactly she is long before she arrives there. The clown, on the other hand, can reload whenever, wherever, is faster, has a normal terror radius and has much, much, MUCH more control in a chase. The clown can force survivors to go where he wants when he wants by throwing gas to channel them wherever. And although he does exchange this for the ability to injure people directly with the projectiles, his projectiles, if used right, will allow a guaranteed hit anyways. And because none of this is balanced in any way and only gets more powerful with the addons used, this is why I deem the clown a better killer than the Huntress.
The spirit I would personally place in low a tier maybe even b tier. Her power is very useful for mind games and this is very useful against survivors. However, her power is also her biggest weakness: it allows the survivors to easily mind game her back. The audio queue played when she is near alerts a survivor to her presence, allowing for easy stealth escapes. However, even if the survivor runs of a gen, and begins a loop it is a massive risk for the spirit to go into phase form as there are so many ways to mind game her. If the survivor doesn't run the spirit can only try to predict their moves, which can lead to lost chases and confused killers. Scratch marks can lead the killer astray a dropped pallet can put considerable distance between the killer and the survivor as either it forces the spirit to go around or come out of phase form to break the pallet, both wasting time in which the survivor can escape. If the killer does not use their power to try and avoid this, then they are no better than the wraith in chase and gives her chasing potential worst than the doctors. This is why I believe she should be much lower than she s tier, maybe even b tier as opposed to a!
I do however agree with your placement of the pig and cannibal, a lunge attack his very easy to dodge as you have little "steering" or control during the animation. It also wastes time having to stealth before being able to do this allowing for an easy escape. Although the pig's stealth mode is good for what it is and might be good for surprising low tier killers, any decent survivor can see her coming and run well before she reaches them. Sprint burst is an easy counter to her lunge and renders it useless. Stealthing around every also decreases your FOV as well as making you considerably slower wasting time.