Mister_xD
Mister_xD
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Sadako.
Trapper is a close runner-up, but Sadako is worse IMO.
while it's true that the Realm Beyond updates have consistently screwed Trapper out of trap hiding spots to the point they might aswell just put a big red arrow above each trap and him being extremely RNG reliant in his power (even when it works), at least when he works he works well and efficiently.
If you get a good map (anything that isnt indoor and has the old grass), his area lockdown can be quite terrifying. I've had plenty of games where the Survivors did well in the beginning but then entered my protected zone and got snowballed hard from that point onward.
Sadako just can't really keep up with that, she lacks the sheer potential destructive power that Trapper has - which is why I would rank her lower.
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What do you mean, intoxicating someone with the After Piece Tonic and then healing them with the After Piece Antidote twice in one match as Clown is such a common occurence, you totally don't have to throw the match to get that done!
Also hiding within 10m of the Killer without being caught (i.e. in chase) for one minute in a single match as Dwight is a perfectly fine thing to ask of the player and will surely not result in them repeatedly throwing matches in order to try and get this done.
Sadly a bunch of the Master Challenges require exactly that from you: a farm game. The two I mentioned above ("Self-Deprecating Joke" and "Dwight The Brave") are far from the only ones that applies to on both sides. Many of them are extremely disconnected with the reality of DbD matches, which makes them almost unobtainable in an ordinary game.
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Trapper:
- Every single The Realm Boyond map significantly shadownerfed him to the point where you just can not hide your traps anymore
- Escaping a Bear Trap is completely based on RNG, so even if you catch someone there is no guarantee that you can actually get a down from it - they might just get out first try and get away before you even vaulted the window or turned the corner.
- Having to run accross the entire freaking map just to get access to a power that is used best in one small area - what is the point of an area defense Killer when they have to constantly leave the area they try to defend just to get access to their area defense ability?!
He is extremely RNG reliant and I hate that. It goes from map RNG to trap spawn RNG all the way to trap escape RNG - he is just extremely unreliable in every way possible - the only thing you can really rely on is that by the time you managed to set up your power, you've lost a bunch of gens already.
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My only issue with the Perk is that it allows people to loop you around a hooked player without being punished for it.
IMO the Perk should pause its effects while the Survivor carrying it is in chase and then resume normally as soon as they escaped.
That's all I would change, otherwise it's a really great Perk.
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It also used to be pretty fun to try at this playstyle and gradually get better at it over time, at least for me.
But ever since Overheat made it in and heavily punishes you for trying it (you gotta hold your power around structures and then when the Survivor makes a misstep you dash around the object and saw them down, all of which increases the "f- you bar"), I've dropped Billy like a hot potatoe.
Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if the only good curve Billies out there are the ones that learned him back when that stupid mechanic wasn't a thing. Nowadays you just get punished so severely for attempting this playstyle and not being a god at it, that it doesn't surprise me that most gave up on him.
It's a shame, because I always liked seeing really good Hillbillies - even if they utterly obliterated me.
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Why is everyone obessed with posting this chart right now?!
Killrates have always been extremely irrelevant and the ones presented here are utterly outdated on top of that.
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100% me.
I don't have a recording software running in the background of every game I play just-in-case, so reporting them is just a waste of time anyway.
BHVR needs to seriously improve on their report system.
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What exactly do you want to know? Where we rank them in strength? In terms of how fun they are to play? or to play against?
I'll just take 'em all into account:
Artist is a very strong Killer, but not very exciting for me neither to play as nor against, so she would rank relatively low, but not bottom tier.
Sadako... sucks. She is very weak, has not much interesting going on for her and is at this point in time the only Killer I haven't even purchased. Lowest possible rank from me.
Dredge is decently strong, but very fun to play as and very interesting to play against. I like it, only downside is its map dependance - but nevertheless I would rank it pretty high.
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It's not so much a remake, mostly it's just a buff.
Your Clown gameplay is the exact same as before, if you just don't use the After Piece Antidote. The only change here is that your bottle reload time is now 3 seconds instead of 4.
Speaking of the After Piece Antidote, all this really does is give him a slight movementspeed buff that, combined with his After Piece Tonic, allows him to turn most loops unsafe. It doesn't change much about his base design ideology, it just gives him a buff that he quite desperately needed. It also doesn't affect the counterplay to him, it just made him better in what he already was strong in - punishing people for staying at one loop with him.
Honestly, I don't see how Clowns gameplay changed in any significant way from what it previously was (his gameplay went from "throw purple bottle at Survivor" to "throw purple bottle at Survivor and yellow bottle at self (if deemed necessary)" - and therefore I also don't really see the problem you seem to be having.
If this were about Doctor, Hillbilly, Deathslinger or Freddy I would understand where you are coming from, as their gameplay has changed quite a bit (for some more, for some less - but it changed enough to make them feel different to play as / against) - but Clown? He is pretty much the exact same as before, just with a bit more of a skillceiling. Sure he got an Add On pass, but you yourself said that wasn't the issue.
Maybe you could elaborate on what exactly you dislike? Because the way I see it, neither his gameplay nor his counterplay have changed in any meaningful way - or are you saying you believe he didn't need a buff in the first place? If so, I'll have to disagree with you, as he was, and still is, on the weaker side of available Killers.
Also the thing you're talking about where you get intoxicated without touching the gas has nothing to do with his buff, that just sounds like a plain bug to me. This would have been the exact same with old Clown and you should report it in the Bug Sections Subforum if it hasn't already been done.
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Sure you can get a refund.
I believe Steams policy regarding refunds is having less than two ingame hours, so if this applies to you, feel free to contact Steam and get your money back.
If you're on a different plattform though, you'll have to check for and abide by their refund policies, which may differ from Steams.
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I hiss at a pallet after being stunned by it as Demo, then proceed to break it normally.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
The Chat filter existing actually makes a lot of sense and I'm glad it was added. Some words just shouldn't ever be used.
The implementation of the filter is... Horrific, if I'm honest. It's incredibly draconic and blurs the most harmless of phrases while somehow still letting curse words through on occasion.
I can agree that having a filter in general is a good thing, but where it gets problematic IMO is when said filter is mandatory.
They should do the same Valve did with Team Fortress 2 when they added a profanity filter to it, and that is allowing every individual to manually turn it off in the options (I'm bringing that one up because TF2's chat filter is actually younger than DbD's, yet had this as a day 1 feature).
It's such an easy way to make everyone happy - people that support the filter can keep it, whereas people like me, who view it as unnecessary and annoying, can just turn it off and be done with it.
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@TotemSeeker91 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3121195#Comment_3121195
...can we just....stop...it all, lol
can we stop with stopping others from stopping can we stop comments on can we stop with the can we stop threats?
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I mean, if they focussed you out and let the other player go (despite having them caught and ready to be killed previously), then they must have had a reason for it.
Maybe they disliked the way you played or maybe the other person simply did something that they liked so much that they decided to give them hatch when it comes down to it?
I will usually just give the last person alive hatch, unless I had to fight very hard for the win and feel like I deserve the 4k or they were playing in a way that I found to be undeserving of hatch (e.g. being an antimate towards their team or trying to annoy me).
But sometimes you just find this one chad who had the balls to walk up to you and throw a pebble at you - and, at least in my opinion, this has to be rewarded.
I can't speak for everyone of course, but, at least based on my experiences, race has little to do with it.
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I would like to know too, but under one condition:
They exclude games that had DCs / early hook suicides in them.
The amount of Survivors immediately forfeiting right now is ridiculous and should not be represented in the kill / survival rates. Games like those do not represent an actual game of DbD, they are worthless when trying to determine balance.
I would say something about including cheaters, but that would imply BHVR could accurately detect those, in which case we wouldn't have the cheater issue in the first place :/
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We just got the Survivor nerf.
So based on that, next in line would be Nurse, no?
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@RatbasterdJr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3117547#Comment_3117547
Dude… go reread what we were talking about. There are literally content creator killer mains that win 99% of their matches. And the same goes for some survivor mains out there.
No, you're just heavily overexaggerating your points.
I see people that are really good at Survivor die a lot and I see people that are really good at Killer lose a bunch too.
Most notably, said Survivors usually die against Blight and Nurse and said Killers lose to coordinated 4 man SWF groups.
We don't need to nerf everything, but we can nerf Nurse and Blight and buff soloQ to be near SWF levels to then properly nerf Survivor as a whole.
Or we take your option and insist that the broken stuff from one side (Nurse on Killer) is fine because Survivors have broken stuff too (coordinated SWFs) and that somehow balanced each other out - which completely ignores away all the stomps you will be having when either one of these two goes up against anything that isn't the other.
Nurse is not fine, she never has been fine and given the nature of her ability I would dare say she never will be fine. I for one am advocating for a complete power rework into something that isn't just "ignore everything".
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Yes and no.
She requires a completely different skillset to every other character which makes her both easier and harder to learn and master.
Ultimately it just boils down to muscle memory. You don't need huge amounts of skill to play her, but you need the muscle memory and decent prediction skills.
So really it depends on the player. Some get it done easily, some struggle a lot with it.
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@RatbasterdJr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3117529#Comment_3117529
How am I contradicting myself?😂
You can't have the Killers win every game and the Survivors win every game too, thats not how reality works.
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@RatbasterdJr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3117519#Comment_3117519
Well based by that logic, then both survivors and all killer should be nerfed into oblivion. The best survivors always escape, and the best killers always 3/4k. You have to go off the average / majority player base. And majority play base are not getting 3/4k with nurse.
You're literally contradicting yourself with that statement.
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@RatbasterdJr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3117481#Comment_3117481
I’m not talking about the “worst” players on nurse. I am saying that an average killer who plays nurse will perform the same as a terrible killer player anybody else, because of nurse’s skill ceiling.
That's not only not what you've been saying, but it is also very untrue.
Plus it really doesn't take long to get to a level where you do well with her. You just gotta dedicate some time to her, once you get the muscle memory down you can play her. The time for that varries from player to player, but personally it took me less than a week to get to a spot where I won a majority of my games from getting absolutely bullied.
It still doesn't matter, and I really feel like a broken record at this point, when discussing balance, you look at the players that know how to play the character best and NOT the players who don't know how to play the character.
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@RatbasterdJr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3117469#Comment_3117469
Highest pick rate, and lowest kill rate. Interesting.
Bro this is about tournaments, not average games.
I've covered your stat argument multiple times now, let me make it clear: IT. IS. INVALID. it's extremely outdated and you're literally arguing with the skillfloor, when balance discussions should be about the skill ceiling. By your own logic old Dead Hard was perfectly balanced because the killrate against completely new players was higher than any other exhaustion Perk, do you also stand by that?
If you bring this argument up one more time I will drop this conversation immediately.
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@RatbasterdJr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3117338#Comment_3117338
Yes, nurses blink through the structures, but at that point it is a 50/50 guess. Did the survivor keep holding W? Or did they double back? If the nurse guesses wrong it buys the survivors another 15-20 seconds. Obviously I know a nurse won’t walk after you, and as you said, it FORCES a nurse to use their power, and if they aren’t good at the power, they will not succeed. She is the ONLY killer that requires knowledge of the power. A blight, oni, etc can still get downs / kills by m1’ing the entire game.
As for sprintburst, if you time it with the blink that would otherwise hit you, you create massive distance.
We're not talking about chases around structures, we're talking about map pressure tools. She won't have to guess whether the gen she is blinking towards moved to the left or right or just held shift + W, gens don't move.
And like I said in my original comment, all you need for any chase is muscle memory and prediction skills. Or just blink to the corner you lost them at and then use the second blink to land on top of them, if you want to play it safe.
Also you're once again trying to argue with the skillfloor, we've already been over that. Just looking at the worst players to determine whether something is balanced or not is not how this works.
You also bring Sprint Burst into the mix, to which I have two things to say:
- Not everyone runs this Perk.
- It has the same effect on any Killer. Creating a good distance between you and the Killer is literally the one thing this Perk does. Not to mention that Nurse recovers from this better than many other Killers would.
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@PapiFelixPSN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3117297#Comment_3117297
Nurse has the same mobility as a normal killer. All she has is her chase.
Anyways, tournaments prove she's balanced. When equally skilled players run the strongest things, Nurse has a 2k average.
as previously mentioned, that is only the case when both Nurse and the other Killer walk in a straight line. Put any sort of structure inbetween and Nurse is going to win, simply because of the fact that she completely ignores said structure whereas the other Killer has to navigate around / through it.
And tournaments are not only a horrible example of your average DbD games (because of how unrealistic they are), but also usually have harsh restriction on everything both sides can bring and specific rulesets in order to try and balance certain imbalances out.
Yet somehow Nurse is still one of the, if not the most picked Killer. If she was in a balanced spot, would she really be that popular? In an environment where everyone brings the strongest stuff they can, Nurse being the popular option she is should be a big red flag, not proving she's balanced.
Not to mention that I doubt a whole lot of tournaments have been held with the new meta changes and everything prior to that is now invalid for the same reason OPs killrates are invalid now.
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@RatbasterdJr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3117297#Comment_3117297
the base kit on nurse travels from one side of the map to other slightly slower than your basic 115 killer, you can go watch the video on it. Sure, she ignores chase mechanics, but she is also the only killer SLOWER than the survivor. You hold W from the moment the nurse targets you and it becomes problematic for them. They finally hit you, and have to do it all over again. You use deadhard, have to do it all over again. This adds up to a large amount of time. Again, HER ADDONS ARE THE ISSUE.
Your map pressure point might work if maps didnt have all these pesky structures on them that force every Killer (except Nurse) to path around / through them, wasting a bunch of extra time in the process. Nurse just blinks through and thats that.
As for the movementspeed, you understand that Nurses will never actually just walk after you, right? The whole point of her moving at 96.25% movementspeed (which is only very slightly slower than a Survivor, so even if she screws up her initial blinks and waits for the recharge she won't lose a whole lot of distance on you) is to force Nurses to use said power in chases. It's just a skillfloor designed to force the Nurse player to at least be somewhat decent at what they are doing to be succesfull, this aspect barely ever comes into play against skilled Nurses.
The on hit sprintburst you get is nowhere near enough to get you far enough out of range to not just get hit quickly after, Dead Hard got changed and shift + W only works when you book it when you're somewhere at the edge of her TR, at which rate you're probaply never gonna get anything done ingame.
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Would you mind explaining exactly how a Killer that is able to ignore literally every chase related mechanic in the entire game while also being able to cross the entire map in a matter of seconds is not overpowered?
She literally has the best chase ability in the entire game and one of the best map pressure tools at her disposal.
Your entire argument essentially boils down to "if the Nurse is bad she loses" - well here's a newsflash for you, that applies to literally every character in this game. There is a reason why we don't bring absolute noobs up in balance debates, it's because they make everything look underpowered. Heck give a completely new player old Dead Hard and they will do significantly worse with it than they would with any other Exhaustion Perk - but that didn't make old Dead Hard balanced or fair, that just shows that this person had no idea how to use it properly.
If you want to discuss balance, look at the better players and see how they do, because they know the limitations of their characters and how to play them well and will show you just what each character is capable of.
Also, not only are the killrates you're bringing up heavily outdated now, but Nurse is living prove that you should never rely on them to make an argument regarding balance.
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It is 100% reportable as a bug in the Bug Reports subsection of the forum, where you should make a post about this if it hasn't already been done before!
But you can't report the Nemesis for something they had no control over.
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with campers? Yes.
outside of this one scenario? I would argue it's never been.
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I've been nostalgic about it the second it left.
MMR was a mistake - and I'm very glad that its basically dysfunctional now, because a working MMR system is the easiest way to kill this game, as the past has proven quite well.
But well, I guess that was an experience we had to make in order to know what not to do in the future.
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Sometimes it's even a 4 gen setup with one gen in the main building, one in front of it, one in the back corner to the right and one on the street on the right.
At this point it's just a win for the Killer, I don't think there is much the Survivors can really do about that - especially when considering that the street gen is in a deadzone, the corner gen has like 1 pallet and the main building gens are placed in a way that makes reaching the windows without getting hit first extremely hard.
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Same opinion I had on them when they were exclusive to Yamaoka and Ormond: I have absolutely no idea how to run them and wish they would be banished to the shadowrealm xD
For real though, they bring some fresh wind in and that is appreciated. It's really just an issue of having to learn how in the world they work for me, I'll get used to them.
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Treatment Mode and Punishment Mode Doctor was a lot more fun than the Static Blast Doctor is, while being on the same level of strength (basekit).
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To be fair towards BHVR here, they are in quite a tough spot right now:
- We have a huge amount of immediate forfeits at the moment, so disabling DC penalties would just result in an increase of that issue.
- We have a group of very sad individuals who cheat and are specifically targeting twitch streamers and content creators in order to ruin their games and hurt the game.
It's a lose-lose situation, really. Disable DC penalties and the amount of early ragequits will skyrocket, keep them enabled and content creators will suffer heavily.
I really hope they can get another banwave out soon that will take care of a lot of those cheaters, aswell as update their anticheat to be better at detecting cheats - but while that is a WIP, they need to find some sort of middleground, which isn't easy.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3115995#Comment_3115995
Devour and Haunted Ground aside
All other traditional (aka lit at the start) hex perk is high risk low reward
Like even Blood Favour if you think about it, blocking pallets is useful to a point but those pallets will still be there later on when you could've got rid of them you know?
Like I said, it is true that some of the Hexes are too weak to justify their Hex status. Those Perks need buffs on an individual level though, that in itself has nothing to do with the overall mechanic of Hex Perks.
So calling for a buff for all Hex Perks is a bit too much, considering that there are some that don't need it.
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As an overall mechanic? No.
But I do think there are a few individual Hex Perks that need buffs to justify their Hex status - IMO the ideal Hex Perk is Devour Hope and every other Hex (that isn't a trap) should be around its level of strength.
I think one thing a lot of people tend to forget with Hexes is, that they are supposed to be high risk - high reward Perks. They are inconsistent and that is by design - a Hex being cleansed early on sucks for the Killer, but that is part of said risk. Therefore you also get games where the Hex stays active for long periodes of time and has an immense effect on the trial.
Though they should definitely improve some of the Totemspots on older maps. I'm not saying make it impossible to find them (something like Lerys is a bit excessive), but at least put them in places that require Survivors to go out of their way to look for them and not just happen to spot them while normally traversing the map / looking around while working on a generator.
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Also I had the misfortune of facing a Cenobite on this map recently and the box just spawned on top of one of these bushes.
Unfortunately that was in end game and I was unable to confirm whether it was obtainable or not, because I had a very bloodthirsty Cenobite right behind me...
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Please, enlighten us:
How did Killers get around Dead Harding for distance easily?
According to your claims, there was an easy counterplay around it that skillful players could use to avoid DHs effects - and anyone who couldn't just counter it was simply too unskilled to do so.
I'm sorry for asking such an obvious question, but apparently I and every content creator I've ever seen play this game are simply not good enough to be on your level yet.
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Sounds like a bug to me - make sure to post this in the Bug Reports subsection of the forum to bring attention to it!
( https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/categories/bugs )
Also, do you now have two bloody shirt cosmetics on your Cheryls customisation menu or still only one?
If you still only have one, then it's a simply visual bug where the game gave you an unlock screen despite you already having the reward, but if you have two now it's a bit more than that.
Nevertheless, it sounds like a relatively harmless bug that should be simple to fix.
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Sore winners.
They feel the need to rub their victory in just for the sake of upsetting you, best to not pay them any mind.
If they feel the need to taunt you and ruin your mood in order to feel satisfaction, then honestly who is the real loser in this scenario? It's not you, I can tell you that much!
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Twins.
Garbage Killer and the Perks suck.
I don't see any redeeming aspect of this character.
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Nurse absolutely. I don't think there's much of an argument to be had with her, she's utterly overpowered and everyone knows that. Though I fear the nature of her power doesn't really allow for any meaningful nerfs without making her near unplayable, she's a tough cookie for sure.
Blight though, I don't agree so much with you. Yes he has some of the most utterly overpowered Add Ons in the game (e.g. Compound Thirty Three, Alchemist Ring, Blighted Crow, ...) that definitely need to be reworked, but basekit I think he is fine - just fix the exploits. Stuff like Hugtech should not be a thing with him.
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I've had my fair share of those people.
Two scenarios stuck out enough for me to remember them though:
- I had someone tell me I was "hacking more range on my Redeemer" (back when Deathslinger was still fun to play) - the hilarious part is that we were playing on Gideon Meatplant and I only landed a single "Sharpshooter" score event (a hit from 15m or further away) all game.
- I had multiple people accuse me of wallhacking because they couldn't grasp the concept of how predictions work. I don't need to physically see your aura to be able to tell where you are most likely to go next after popping a gen...
I've probaply been reported a lot of times, but so far I've never been banned once. So at least in that aspect the report system seems to be functional.
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I've been playing a lot less since Hooked on You released.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3110988#Comment_3110988
For sure, I’ll be keeping an eye out probably. 🙂 The other teachable perk I thought about was the one that can recharge your item in a locker.
Someone else mentioned Kindred above as a good generic perk whose aura is augmented and I have also considered using that too.
(It’s too bad there’s no perk that gives you a new tool box on a rummage like there are for medkits and flashlights. But then again that’s probably intentional.)
Oh yeah, Built to Last is a really interesting one too! Though I would say it is most usefull when you bring a strong item in with you that you know you'll want to recharge a couple of times. Relying on RNG there might not be the best call.
Kindred though... oh boy I can tell you one thing: it is extremely addicting! I use this Perk religiously and having a reverse BBQ effect on the Killer is just so, SO good when you want to avoid contact! Honestly, pick it once and you'll probaply never want to let it go again (at least thats my experience with it) xD
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3110967#Comment_3110967
Yeah, if I was interested in unlocking teachable perks I’d maybe grab Rummage. I don’t play survivor enough to bother though.
I feel that one lmao
Maybe grab it once it enters the shrine? Ever since they buffed it to instantly unlock on your characters that might be a viable option?
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How about Appraisal?
You can double the amount of items you can pull with it, so you have a better variety of items to choose your favourite one out of.
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@Lyonic said:
You can use the buttom addon that makes them broken once they heal from deep wound.
Or just tunnel someone out - thats 1 less person that needs to be injured for it to work.
Nope, tunneling someone out doesn't work.
it needs to have 4 Survivors either injured, dying or hooked. As soon as one person dies that is no longer possible and the 20% slowdown is unobtainable from that point onwards.
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@Tsela said:
It's not the "new" Thanatophobia, it's the same old one just pretty much worthless, not worth for any build really
Well, it's the newest version of it, hence the "new".
And since I'm mentioning both the new version and the old versions of Thana in this, I feel it is important to clearly seperate the two in order to avoid possible confusion.
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@FFirebrandd said:
I don't think anyone will run new Thana.
In addition to what you brought up, the main thing Thana had going for it was that it was far more reliable than any other anti Gen perk. With this nerf, it has lost nearly all of its reliability since the survivors can remove 70% of the perk via finishing a single heal.
I see zero reason for killers to run Thana over Eruption, Jolt, Pain Res, Call of Brine, or even Overcharge in spite of it being worse than a dry kick for 12s. Heck, with the addition of the mini pop on every kick, Brutal Strength might be a more reliable anti Gen perk than Thana.
Funnily enough, Brutal Strength was the exact Perk that came to my mind when I mentioned picking "Perks that help them in chase" over new Thana.
Honestly, if a Perk gets outshined by Brutal Strength as a gamedelay Perk, that should be a big red flag that something is wrong xD
But I mean, maybe Thana will continue to see some usage on Plague? As I mentioned, at least she can get fountains out of it. It's going to be quite nieche though...