Jock21
Jock21
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3934347#Comment_3934347
Kind of missing the prior messages that leads up to what @ChuckingWong is replying to.
Not really, they used one single match to degrade the genrushing complaints, so I did the same for all of his complaints as well.
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I think once survivors get used to playing against his antiloop he'll be a B tier killer unless they overbuff/nerf him from PTB.
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3934115#Comment_3934115
Well, my example is probably their worst nightmare, the kind of result their hypotheticals can’t explain away.
I had everything stacked against me:
- Eyrie of crows: most survivor sided map.
- Playing Vommy Mommy; tall, easily spotted from far away.
- Low mobility killer.
- Mostly an M1 killer with a conditional M2.
- One gen left, only three hook states, and all gens with progress.
No tunneling. Still pulled a 3K win.
According to them, that’s “impossible.” But it happened.
And that’s the point, tangible gameplay beats endless what-if spirals. Hypotheticals aren’t being used to explore ideas or balance. They’re being used to deflect, to protect their belief system, and worse, to avoid the work of actually analyzing games.
What ifs and hypotheticals can go both ways, endlessly. All they are doing is trying to win an argument on the internet. Nothing to do with dead by daylight or balance. Much like the "like" and "dislikes" they are looking for confirmation bias reinforcement.
So yeah, it’s ironic. They say "I’m in a fantasy for not tunneling", while they build their argument on a fantasy version of matches, and ones that I post as well. Dismissing them and picking them apart to fit their narrative, and ignoring the things posted above.
We need to push back, because if all the forums ever hear are emotional complaints dressed up as logic, developers, and players; never get the full picture.
Ok and ? You can also 3-4 out Nurses, Blights, Billies, Ghouls or tunnelling killers in general, I did it plenty of times even in Solo Q matches, so I guess by your logic you shouldn't complain about these killers or their tactics either cause they're still very much beatable.
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You should take up your own advice and improve at the game yourself instead of dictating other people how to play for your benefit/comfort.
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Yeah the way some people were crying "new Chucky scamper" for both the old dog's vault speed and Vecna's Mage Hand just for both of them to end up as 2 mediocre B tier killers was really embarrassing ngl.
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So even after this nerf the megheads are still crying about Ghoul not being completely useless, it's obvious y'all won't be happy till he essentially becomes another Legion, good thing I predicted it and sticked to maining Dracula.
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@OPXtreme_ttv said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3922115#Comment_3922115
Houndmaster is almost bug free now, only bug i can remember is when you send the dog into a pallet and then redirect chase command and he phases through the pallet. The whole point of vecna's power is really powerful abilities at a long cooldown cost. For the record his fly spell has the shortest cooldown of his 4 spells too
Are Vecna's "poweful abilities" in the room with us rn ?
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Ghoul already wasn't anywhere near as strong as Blight so why does he now get 5/8 seconds cooldown upon breaking a pallet but Blight gets nothing ? Ghoul now essentially will have to walk down survivors to the next loop like a M1 killer after every pallet break.
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Why are you still buffing haste and hindered perks if the haste and hindered stacking removal isn't going through anymore ? This sounds like a very unfun experience if either side stacks these perks against someone that isn't running haste and/or hindered perks themselves. I don't see this as a sustainable change cause of how abusable it can become.
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This thread is full of double standards from the usual suspects, what a surprise … not.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3919956#Comment_3919956
I mean, I personally dont care either way. But I just think this is looking for making things a problem which are really irrelevant. The Abandon-feature is good. And bringing up those concerns for nitpicking is just too much IMO.
But whatever, it seems to be the most important thing that the Survivors lose MMR, because it is clearly so important for people. I think I will just ignore this thread, not worth my time to argue over such little things, lol.
Weren't you one of the people crying when you thought killers abandoning after holding a 3 gen for 10 minutes was considered a win ? Yeah, you indeed don't need to be on this thread anymore considering that your hypocrisy was already showed in full display.
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@danielmaster87 said:
All of his abilities are garbage. I feel completely powerless playing as him. His mage hand especially. You lift/hold the pallet to get them, but the delay especially in lifting the pallet is so much, they just get around anyway. Even without the magic boots. Even with the Haste add-on for mage hand. I legitimately don't understand how people get survivors at loops thanks to mage hand. It feels similar to Wesker or Kaneki vaulting over stuff, where it doesn't actually advance your position in relation to the survivors. It's kind of just breaking even on distance.
His skeletons I think are his best. But unless the survivors let you point-blank skeleton hit them, that ability doesn't do anything either.
Fly is cool for mobility, but I feel it's not actually as much distance as the sound/visual effect would have you believe. Feels kind of deceptive. And we could have had it to where he could fly through survivors to block them, like Ghoul can do now, but no. The devs changed that so that you can't even get around body blocking survivors. And you can vault windows with it, but it then insta-cancels, and the survivors can vault through you most of the time. The cooldown of coming out of his fly, in any event, just lets the survivors get away. It's why people call Ghoul's cooldowns OP, because they're used to killers being basically immobile for multiple seconds after using their mobility move.
His orb/sphere is alright, but all it's there to do is counter the stupid magic items, which in turn has its own counter as one of the items. Magic items give survivors a completely unnecessary advantage vs this killer. I get that it was put in to keep his power in check, but after his nerfs, they basically serve no purpose but to make him more bullyable. I hate this concept of items given to the survivors that are free counterplay to the killer's power, like Singularity and Xenomorph.
So what you've got is a killer who can do all these flashy things, but is absolutely toothless. The fact that he has multiple abilities doesn't make him stronger than the average killer, and that should be shocking. Imagine Doctor with like 2-3 other abilities. He'd probably be a threat. But this guy, Vecna? He's a chump. A survivors' plaything.
His fly is around the speed of an add-onless Spirit phase but with even less duration and more cooldown … And add-onless Spirit already doesn't have great mobility so Idk what the devs thought they were cooking with this as his "mobility tool".
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And that's when you learn to dodge it.
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Camping pallets against her dog that hard for you eh ?
She probably won't be in A tier anymore after her PTB nerf.
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Probably cause you can get similar or better results with Blight/Billy/Ghoul/Dracula for less effort than Singularity.
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Cooldown add-ons on Spirit.
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Bro be tripping with the Pinhead and Cannibal placements.
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Perfectly reasonable post but it obviously falls on deaf ears considering the obvious survivor bias on these forums.
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The only ones wanting it nerfed are the salty new Ghoul mains and it's really not hard to imagine why.
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The state of gen defence perks is definitely at all time low if now people think Surge is worth complaining about lol. In my survivor matches playing against it 8% does almost nothing.
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Pretty overrated in terms of strength, even in Solo Q it ain't difficult most of the time to get at least a draw (2 escapes) against her. Also still embarrassingly buggy to this day so not enjoyable to play as for me.
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He def feels less cheesy to face after his last round of nerfs, plus I don't verse him as much after said nerfs so I'm not as exhausted of mostly only having to face Billies now.
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Shoulder the Burden, Deja Vu, Hyperfocus and Dead Hard on survivor.
Pentimento, Devour Hope, Blood Favour and Machine Learning on Dracula.
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@Bodark said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3897634#Comment_3897634
Giving her basekit shiny Pin would’ve went a long way and despite what people were saying wouldn’t have made her problematic at all even remotely. Still couldn’t land hatchets at small loops.
Definitely could zone better but Demo is a much better zoner since he moves at 115% holding shred and can immediately cancel into an M1. Xeno moves at 115% with his tail ready and PP Head moves at 110% with ROJ.
Shiny pin wouldn’t even fix any problems actually. Neither her no slinger need to be 110% with how many loops they can’t use their power at.
Well if either of them were released today they would've def been 115% speed. People can say what they want but 110% speed is atp just a remnant of old dbd killers design … Pretty sure not even the devs could answer why Houndmaster moves at 115% speed while Deathslinger's still stuck at 110%.
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He's much worse than Pyramid Head that's for sure, definitely don't bother with him if you're looking for a strong killer.
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By playing a better killer.
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@Thesevenspirits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3891221#Comment_3891221
When the killer already moves faster and some killers have powers to make up for even more mobility, bloodlust is icing on the cake. Also rapid brutality does not deactivate after 60 seconds and doesn't require a difficult skill check for you to use it. İt also does not give you a condition like " don't kick gens, or hook survivors or it will deactivate"
Pain Res and Grim deactivate after a certain number of hooks, Corrupt deactivates after a down, all Hexes deactivate after being cleansed, so I guess by your wonderful logic all of these killers' perks also favor survivors instead …
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Cause some people aren't as good at this game as they think they are …
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@XtremeDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3888845#Comment_3888845
What 10K+ hour content creators? Content creators in general? Competitive players are the only people i want to see make tierlists, they're the only ones who can be trusted to judge a killer kit, I and many others do not care about what someone who makes content, play the game all day and still isn't that good at the game has to say.
Spirit quite literally is busted, complete invisibility for 5 seconds with huge speed isn't fair, not seeing the survivor doesn't matter if you can hear them and see their movement through environmental physics and scratch marks.
If you really think stuff like current Spirit is uncounterable or Artist isn't map dependent then I'm sorry to burst your bubble but you ain't that good at the game either. I'd definitely trust these content creators' opinions over yours at least.
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@XtremeDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3888779#Comment_3888779
Dude shes still super strong. You can’t counter her in anyway, she doesn't even take skill, just a good head set and if u like tweaking vinilla dbd settings u run an equalizer to make footsteps louder and counter iron will
i don't have any issue countering her and having decent long chases against Spirits so I think that may be a skill issue on your part. Even most 10k+ hours dbd content creators don't put Spirit in top 5 anymore on their tier lists as they realized that she doesn't belong to S tier.
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@XtremeDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3888774#Comment_3888774
spirit is low S tier, her kits barely changed since her small directional audio nerf
As someone who used to main her she's nowhere near as strong as the S tier killers so she's def not S tier. She's very probably not even top 5 anymore.
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Someone's still stuck in 2019 cause Spirit ain't S tier.
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Remember when people were arguing she's a top 5-10 killer ? Yeah, that was a good laugh.
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Mass slugging against any below S tier killers is mostly the survivors' fault, they don't need to be handheld in such situations, instead they need to improve.
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Very weak against survivors who know how to loop a M1 killer with a budget version of Clown's power.
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Walls of text of complaining when decent survivors can still easily dodge the dog most of the time unless they're stuck in animations lol.
But yeah sure, go ahead and nerf her into her PTB state when everyone would still choose to play Nurse/Blight/Billy and probably some other killers over her against good survivor teams. Don't complain about killers' variety then tho.
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@Nun_So_Vile said:
They just don't have to hide it anymore. Not that Tru3 ever really hid the fact he does what it takes to win, but It's all in the open now baby…
Imagine trying to win in a video game, oh the horror ! Can you even feel your hands anymore after all this pearls clutching ?
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3871725#Comment_3871725
I most likely have more hours on Killer alone than you in total. :) So you can assume all you like. Funny that you are now doing the same I have done before… ^^
And no, sorry. The person I quoted is someone who is saying all the time how hard it is to play. So either they are not as good as they think they are OR they are on a special Server where only very strong Players are playing. You can guess which is more likely. :^)
If that's true then that makes it even more sad to be stuck at the level where you're having the opinions that you do. But hey, some people play games just for fun and not be good at them. And I'm sure you don't mind that I treat you the way you treat others, otherwise maybe some retrospection would be welcome.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3871714#Comment_3871714
The thing is, unlike the person I quoted, I dont act as if I go against the best players in the game all the time. And I sadly have to assume that I am better than the person I quoted, both as Killer (even if I am apparently a trashy Survivor player) and as Survivor. :/
Sorry if I made you upset that I called out your friend.
Nah, your opinions just indeed made me believe that about you but I held my tongue cause everyone is entitled to their opinions after all, but now that you started thinking you're a judge of other people's skills at this game cause of said opinions someone has gotta knock you down a peg cause you're def not all that either.
Also frankly I'm sure you're an even worse killer than survivor, but cause you're likely not the type to get out of the MMR where you meet default skins Dwights and Megs you probably can't notice that ;).
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3871585#Comment_3871585
I mean, your experience is a strange one, since you are just not good at the game. You keep posting that you are struggling so much with the game as Killer, so I dont really think that your opinion is really valid. At least not in a way you think it is, we are not talking about some high MMR-gameplay when we think about your posts. (Which is fine, but at least dont act as if you are one of the best players and only go against the best players)
IF DS would be as strong as you claim, the pickrate would be higher. I dont really want to take a deep look at it, but currently DS is the 10th most used Survivor-Perk, with around 10% usage. This is less than half of the 23% it had before 0.6.1… It is quite clear that the Perk is not as popular anymore, because it is significantly weaker. Why even bother using DS when it is a mild inconvenience for basically every Killer nowadays?
I did not dive deep into it, but I THINK that DS was the most used Survivor-Perk pre 0.6.1… But at the very least it was Top 3, far more used than it is nowadays.
And from your own posts here you sound like a pretty trashy survivor player who I definitely wouldn't want in my Solo Queue games, so I wouldn't be getting off on judging other people's supposed skills and acting almighty about your biased opinions if I were you.
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@exDbd said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3870255#Comment_3870255
clearly you can’t read. I stated in solo queue. It’s miserable. You get good and stop using aura perks
The ones who need to get good aren't the people using perks given by the game itself, but the solo queue players losing to them, including yourself.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/436603/nowhere-to-hide
Like you cant find Survivors so you use the perk and it plays the game for you…
The entire point of Aura Reading perks is to counter stealth, you are trading off slowdown or chase perks for information.
Also the perk doesnt "play the game for you", you still have to chase Survivors. The only time it does anything effective is if you are playing Nurse or the Survivor is crouching behind a wall and not running away (like they should be doing, since kicking the Generator wastes time and gives you free distance).
…It is OP, no cooldown, nothing, you just kick Generators and see all Survivors…
You see Survivors with 24-meters of your location. Not all Survivors.
Also you have to take the time to kick the Generator, and the Generator needs to have progress. It also comes with the downside of having limited uses per Generator, meaning there are limitations to how many times this perk can proc.
…If Survivors had a perk like work on a Generator for 50 seconds to see the Killer for 5 seconds… Killer mains would be going crazy.
Fogwise is already a perk that exists and outside of people fearing it would be problematic, you literally never see it. It's definitely an underrated perk but it effectively does what you just mentioned.
Yeah, but survivors don't need to bother with perks like Fogwise cause unlike killers they have stronger perks than that. So it's not a surprise they even forget that such perks exist …
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Full aura reading builds are incredibly weak against any survivor team that averages 30 seconds per survivor in chase and does gens. Git gud.
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So is Twins the next killer y'all want to Skull Merchant'd now ? Honestly kinda surprised, I didn't think they were enough people playing them for survivors to get their panties in a twist over them.
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The only thing you should be crying about is your lack of skill as a team as that's the only way post nerf Chucky is getting a 4 man slug at 5 gens. Actually I'd be too embarrassed to post this if I was one of the survivors. And also it doesn't look like the killer's even bleeding all 4 of you out cause he did pick someone up, so you're just complaining about the killer winning, which is just usual survivors entitled behavior.
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@albertoplus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3851555#Comment_3851555
What i find interesting is what people have been saying about Spirit of all sudden compared to before.
Before Dracula exist: "Spirit is still top 5 killers in the game, even after the directional audio nerf"
After Dracula exist: "Nah Spirit is not that good and is easily counterable"
??????
But the best part is that in the same video you are sending me, Scott is literally saying "Dracula is just a tiny bit better than Spirit", and by you pointing that Spirit is a 110% speed killer with 15 seconds cooldown that has no lethality you seem to say that Spirit is also "not even that good", so… by Dracula being a "tiny bit better than Spirit" means that he also is not that good. No nerfs needed then, buff both Dracula and Spirit i suppose?
It's called power creep, since then stronger killers have been released, others have been buffed and Spirit's counter perk IW has been buffed back into meta, so I don't know what's so shocking that she may have fell down a couple places on people's tier lists. Even on Otz's new tier list she fell off top 5:
Also the no lethality argument was relative to her comparison with Dracula, of course against low or mid tier killers she still has much better lethality overall but I wasn't comparing her with those.
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@Ashen_One_Chris said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3854026#Comment_3854026
Indeed they did. The combo as I said took the cooldown to about 4.8s, and factoring in the part that it starts early in the recovery animation after casting Hellfire, it led to people literally going around loops like moving Hellfire turrets.
Also, the various leaderboards that track player stats like Hellfire hits made it popular among players that wanted to grind "#1 Dracula on X" spots, which I suspect is another source that made people believe it was "spammable". The reduction compared to basekit was notable.
But no, I am sorry, 7 seconds cooldown for an ability is not low. 7s is a sweet-spot that makes a Dracula player be careful enough as to how and where to use it, and still long enough to make the player consider switching to Wolf form if it misses. However with the nerf, holding Hellfire for zoning became way more common due to the potential time waste of missing it, which feels very limiting.Again, I think addons that affect power cooldowns (and power startups - as a Billy player that went through the 2019 tragedy) in general are culprits for a lot of misconceived notions about how readily available Killer powers really are, and lead to unwarranted basekit nerfs.
Nah to me the 7 seconds cooldown indeed felt low, even on a miss I didn't really felt all that punished as almost always the cooldown would be up by the time I'd get in a position where I'd try to hit the survivor again with it, which is why I thought that before the nerf the Hellfire cooldown add-ons were unnecessary and never used them (and personally I don't recall ever going against a double Hellfire cooldown add-ons Dracula, pretty sure I even saw more Wolf form double add-ons than this).
Granted my other 2 mains are Spirit and Unknown whom have much harsher and punishing cooldowns on their powers than this, so I guess that's probably why I never faced any issue managing Dracula's cooldowns.
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@Ashen_One_Chris said:
Fully agreed that the nerf to Hellfire's base cooldown should be reverted.
There was absolutely nothing spammable - aka too frequently usable, about an ability that needs 7 seconds to recharge.
What did make it spammable, as I and others have pointed out before, was the addon combo of Sylph Feather at max stacks + Ruby Circlet, which combined led to a cooldown of about 4.8s.
Sylph Feather is the primary culprit here, and if Medusa's Hair can get a number adjustment as it did, so could that addon be addressed and the cooldown nerf reverted. Something as simple as reducing the percentage per stack, or making its effect a static percentage, is sufficient.Was anyone even using the double cooldown Hellfire add-ons when the Bat Form add-ons are literally 10x better, especially when Hellfire cooldown used to be already pretty low at 7 seconds ? Maybe now at 10 seconds cooldown I can see the point in using them, but the add-ons related to Bat Form are still clearly superior.
Also Sylph Feather should definitely just be a flat percentage, needing to get stacks just for lower Hellfire cooldown just seems extra and unnecessary.
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It's cause they nerfed all of his add-ons to be mid AF now when they weren't even that crazy to begin with.
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https://youtu.be/VAICe3FQwUQ?si=VefNtFuOGw7yljVf@albertoplus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3834009#Comment_3834009
Literally all the things you've listed you can do against Dracula you can do against Spirit efficiently as well, her invisibility is massively overrated against survivors with a good headphone. And if you get juked as Spirit you now have a longer cooldown than Dracula and you're getting looped as a 110% speed killer with no other antiloop options till your power comes back, that's why Spirit is now weaker as well.
The "good headphones" thing is a myth. Yes it helps, but i can assure you a lot of people play already with headphones (hell i would say that most people do it) and Spirit is still ranked at the top most of the time. By having headphones doesnt make Spirit far worse of all sudden. If it did, Spirit would be a low tier killer, as headphones basically "countered" her. You can still catch people even if they are aware of the sound, and you have a much easier time doing it than Dracula due to being invisible, having easier time to juke pallets (if people camp a thrown pallet you will not hit them as Dracula's Bat form) and being faster than Dracula.
And Scott Jund isn't the only one putting Dracula over Spirit, I've seen even some comp players doing it as well so Spirit is indeed getting outclassed by Dracula, you're just refusing to see it.
There are some comp players that see Dracula above Spirit. There are also some comp players that see Spirit over Dracula. The "i am refusing to see it" can also be applied to you.
I mantain what i said. Against better players Spirit has an easier chance as she has more lethality than Dracula. If you play both of them extremely well, its easier to juke out Dracula than Spirit. Throw a pallet and camp it, now Dracula has two options:
- Either break the pallet and go into next loop because he cant M1 after transforming from Bat form
- Change into Wolf or Vampire form and go into the standard mindgames with the survivor to hit with his M2. Bonus points if it has high obstacles as he will not be able to Hellfire
At the meanwhile Spirit has always been easier to hit on pallets, even with the directional sound.
And yet against actual top tier comp players Dracula ate Spirit up, which as a main of both of these killers it was a pretty predictable result, just like I kept saying in this post. Especially the no add-ons comparison, a 110% speed killer with a nasty 15 seconds cooldown on her power has anything but lethality xd.