JeanCharpentier
JeanCharpentier
About
- Username
- JeanCharpentier
- Joined
- Visits
- 275
- Last Active
Comments
-
@dugman said:
- FYI they currently usually do a balance pass about three months after a character releases, presumably because they want time to gather data and let the meta around a new character stabilize a bit. So we’ll probably see a Mikaela balance patch in the next midchapter patch in January or so would be my guess, including her Boons
- When you complain about “Boons” I’m assuming you’re just complaining about Circle of Healing since the consensus seems to be that’s the overpowered one and not nearly as many people complain about Shadowstep or Exponential. It’s important to distinguish between them as individual perks because the Boon system as a whole seems fine, the imbalance is essentially exclusive the one perk Circle of Healing that should probably have its healing speed reduced.
- Time to gather datas to buff the Nurse and nerf the Pinhead ? Yea okay.
- Yes CoH, others can be strong but they are kind of fair.
-
@ReikoMori said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2688361#Comment_2688361
They've been telling people since 2017 that tunneling and camping aren't things they are actively trying to discourage tho...
I know and what do we get today ? At least half the killer at high MMR are Camping/Tunneling = half your games are crap and totally not fun, it's just a long infinite chase for one survivor till death and gen simulator for the 3 others... I remember, from 2017 to 2019 i had a blast with DbD, i had fun most of the time and i was laughing so much in many trials. Now it's just frustration over frustration with a fun trial once in a while.
Just to compare with the recent competition Propnight, in 1 week, they have released 5 patches to :
- fix most bugs/exploits
- add an anticheat
- fix performance issues
- add a map (today)
- re-enable the proxy voice chat and re-enabled it
Such a small studio without money, able to do so much work to improve the experience is incredible.
Next to this you have BHVR, a millions of dollars company that is unable to listen to the community and clearly does not care that much to please the audience... that's unbelievable, they always find excuses for everything, it is never their fault... The last DDOS/hacking problem is just the most terrible example of how BHVR is communicating and handling things.
-
@Dino7281 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/299150/boon-totems
They can have good moments and well, sometimes really bad moments, but for both: they are sooo slow.
Well, we can hope there will be something in mid-season patch.
They pretty much have never fixed the huge boring issues of the game.
- 4 survivors with meta perks ? still existing
- terrible unbalanced maps ? still existing
- game changing perks ? still existing
- camping/tunneling ? still highly rewarded
- performances issues ? still here
I could continue but what is the point, they care only about releasing skins. Everyone can check by themselves on the DbD Steam forum, they will see threads about those points from 2017. 5 years and they still have not fixed those bullshit design... How can the community accept it ? I dunno...
-
@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2681762#Comment_2681762
Uh, not "all streamers that are not tied with the FW program have stopped to stream DbD" you can easily go on Twitch and find many of them. Less? Maybe. But I follow many streamers that still play it, and they aren't "burnt out, it's clear, when they play they don't have fun at all."
Many huge DbD streamers have said that they are bored about the game. Even Otz made a video about it but he is not the only one, Morf, Truetalent, Dowsey, and many others.
-
@MissKitty95 said:
Are the servers broken? Or down 2 times my matchmaking has been cancelled
Yes, it is broken atm
-
@OneT said:
Yesterday Otzdarva made a stream when he tried to prove this point.
So he took every killer, he used really good perks and god tier addons and played.
He obliterated every lobby (most of the time, it was with 4 gens left). Of course sometimes survivors were'nt that strong, but still they at least played DS/DH.
As a killer main (95%/5% killer/survivor). I do not know what to think about ? Am I delusional to think that survivors have advantages over the killer ? But my POV is biaised by the fact I only played killer since I started plyaing (around 200h)
I would like to know what do you think about this ? Does it prove that the game is not survivor sided ? What is your POV on that ? Please also let know other people which role you main !
Everyone is playing DH/DS, even at a really low MMR : on some killers, i often leave 3 survivors escape as i have pity... loosing a ton of MMR and everyone has DH/DS/BT etc...
I have seen some of the Otz's stream... with the trapper he was facing baby survivors.
I'm pretty sure he is de-ranking off stream on the weakest killers to give some entertainment and variety to his streams. No one would look someone camping/tunneling to win or someone loosing every trials with 3 hooks only.
-
@Gamedozer7 said:
I'm already burnt-out on oh there's the killer w all they way across map that's the whole game with artist hold w hit m1 30 seconds later im so glad I didn't spend money on such a poorly designed killer.
Not only the "artist sucks", Dead by Daylight became a really bad game.
Everyone that have played the game enough have the same mind about it. Well known sreamers are leaving, actually all streamers that are not tied with the FW program have stopped to stream DbD. Many are on VHS, many others are on Propnight.
DbD became an unfairness fest, it is full, completely full of bad design choices to the point it is not fun to play anymore. Camping/Tunnelnig is rampant, gen rush is terrible, collision are bugged, perks are too numerous and some perks synergies are OP.
That game will die, it is just frustrating to play now, no one have fun. Streamers that still play DbD are all burnt out, it's clear, when they play they don't have fun at all.
-
Honestly, i have a burn out with DbD, and i'm playing both sides.
The game is unfair, there is always something that is unfair, everytime.
- Killer gameplay is way to redundant to be fun
- Killers are too weak
- Too many design flaws with bad maps, too many perks, too many clunky actions, gen rush...
- Too much camping/tunneling
- Too much reward with low skill mechanics
I have around 2000 hours. Never felt so bad with DbD. I just don't want to play anymore.
-
Trolls for sure, just ppl messing around.
Nothing surprising as this community is one of the most toxic.
Well, this game is about to die soon.
-
Wait what ? 😂
-
We knew it, we have warned BHVr and the mods here. Some of them answered that it will be free for one week only and that everything will be fine.
Another mistake. Honestly, if we would list all the mistakes that have been made with DbD, i guess we would need a 20 pages discussion.
-
I will specifically vote for the long dark. Devs put way much more love into this game than BHVR did on DbD. Sorry BHVR but the community is totally unhappy atm.
-
@Myla said:
I legit have not seen a Good spirit or a Spirit doing well ever since her Nerf. Ripo.
I haven't seen a single killer playing well for weeks now beside some nurses.
All killers that win at my MMR are winning because they camped/tunneled and other survivors are trying to help. When they play fair, they never win, they barely have 1 kill.
In chases they are terrible, completely braindead in common jungle gyms, their mindgame are phoned most of the time... and they barely catch me, they often change target...
The skill level is insanely low atm.
-
They don't hate killers... they just have no idea of how the game is played at a good level. As they have no idea about it, they rely exclusively on stats to do changes, stats that are completely flawed...
-
I see extremely long posts just to try to justify what is impossible to justify lol...
The game is totally unbalanced, period.
Stats have been made with trials on the most balanced maps + Nurse/Spirit/Blight, the three best killers. And still, the average kill is 2.
- Spirit almost never get more than 1K.
- Nurse struggled to get 2K.
- Blight performed pretty well with almost constant 4k.
But what would have been the average kill with other killers ? It would have been <1k, it is pretty obvious.
The game is unbalanced and if you don't play Nurse/Spirit or Blight, you will loose every trials at high MMR.
And some interpretation are flawed here, especially when talking about the results obtained with Oni/Huntress/Pinhead... saying the game is really balanced there. First, there are only 3 trials...the population is too low to set conclusions.
However, if we admit that Spirit is not S tier anymore, let's take the results of all trials with Oni, Pinhead, Spirit and Huntress : average kills = 1,7; deviation is 1.16. It means that the result is pretty much stable with less than 2 kills most of the time.
So once again, imagine the results we would get with the Wraith, Trapper, Clown etc...
-
@zarr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2675773#Comment_2675773
For outright wins I didn't consider stages, as that's indeed another argument. I only argued the 3 games where non-S-tier killers were played could be ignored if we are looking at the actual top-end state of balance. But results were overall pretty even regardless.
I do agree that too much of the killer lineup is too weak and various of them deserving of buffs. I do not agree that only these three are able to compete at the highest level. In other tournaments a wide variety of other killers is played, and they average slightly above 2 kills as well, with 4ks being possible. In this tournament without any limitations, do I think most of those other killers would still be able to replicate those results? Well, in those other tournaments killers have limitations too, various of the killers actually have pretty busted add-ons with which I don't think it's imposslbe they could still perform here (see Huntress getting a 3k here, similar story could be the case for Clown with Pinky Finger, or Plague with Iridescent Seal, etc.). But I do think they are obviously not nearly as fit to compete as the big three, which stand a pretty good shot of 4king and that's indeed just not the case for most other killers, they would probably fall at an average 2 at best, with the "almost guaranteed 1ks" helping bump their stats to that.
I absolutely don't agree with the idea that most of the other killers are not "playable at all", let alone at high MMR. Again, in restricted tournaments around half of all killers perform well enough, in this tournament I would at least still expect a third of them to be able to average around 2 kills and/or 6-8 stages. And public matchmaking is a whole different story still. When these tournament players (or any really good killer players) play pub matches with even the weakest of killers, they still win much more often than not. Sorry, but that's just true.
I do not ignore the fact that the highest-end level is not balanced for ~80% of the killer lineup, but that's not a game balance argument. I do think having at least 5 S-tier killers would be nice, that would make for more variety. I also think all the other killers should be B tier at least, and A tier with add-ons, which again is not currently the case for around half of them. I doubt we'll see that happen, it's been years already and they are still cautious when adjusting killers like Legion and they nerfed Pinhead and Slinger recently, but I do hope it will happen. That said, I don't really think it's a huge issue. If you want to stand a chance against much of anyone you play Nurse, Blight or Spirit, but you can still play any other killer and do well in the majority of your pub matches if you play enough to get good enough. I've 4k'd around 30 matches with Legion over the last week, losing only 4 times.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2675788#Comment_2675788
I don't see 10-20 minute queue times, and I watch and play with and against some of these tournament players.
If we were to suppose that the lack of skills and smarts on players playing survivor would tilt the global average rates to favour killers, the conclusion would have to be that it is more difficult to play survivor in skilled and smart ways, because everyone playing this game is just human, why would we expect humans playing survivor to consistently be less skilled and smart at the game than humans playing killer. I think the asymmetric format actually is mostly at fault for that imbalance in pub matches, where 4 survivor players each have to match the "skills and smarts" of only 1 killer player, and are much more likely to suffer from skill disparity for that reason, as well from disconcerted plays and decisions. But either way, I also don't think or see any evidence that the base game balance is nearly as far off as people make it out to be, all evidence points more to the opposite.
I think you got a point with your last statement. We actually know from dataminers that there are (or were) significantly more killers in the high MMR population than survivors. I think the MMR is not strict enough and allows many players to rise particularly on the killer side that are not actually experienced and skilled enough to be able to consistently compete with the best opponents within those respective MMR brackets. I think it should be harsher, such that people don't see such jumps in difficulty levels, and that they fall to more reasonable levels more quickly if they do.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2675811#Comment_2675811
Could be cool! I would like to see a "solo queue" tournament, where the survivor players are one big pool that matches are randomly created from, and they have no voice comms or prior coordination of builds etc., with the killers likewise being a pool randomly "queued" into these matches, ultimately the survivor and killer players with the highest survival and kill rates winning after X rounds. Would be fun and interesting, both to watch and participate.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2675815#Comment_2675815
While the deviation is fairly big, you can look at the actual results and see that it's around 40% wins for either side and 20% draws, which is not an awful split. But beyond that, that deviation is only for actual kills, if we look at hook stages (which I find are a better indication of "balance" with relation to the actual experience of the gameplay), the average and deviation fall around 6-10 stages, which is a totally reasonable state of balance in my mind.
Kills' deviation is too big for the game to be balanced but still, even if we admit that the stat showed here are balanced, they are obtained with the 3 best killers...
Just imagine any other killer that are all way weaker than the Nurse...
-
@zarr said:
Over the last weekend, www.twitch.tv/Wwispy1 held a tournament in which every character, perk, item, add-on and offering was allowed. This makes it special because usually in tournaments there are a various restrictions for these things in place.
I have taken stats on a plethora of tournaments in the past, and every time without fail average kills settled slightly above 2. My experience with and analysis of tournament DbD has contributed to my opinion that the game is actually reasonably well-balanced at the top end, and to my understanding of why the game is statistically killer-sided in public matchmaking. Since killers can evidently compete even against survivor teams composed of some of the very best, most practiced players in the world that are also using voice communications (and do so in very efficient ways) and have highly coordinated loadouts, strategies and tactics, it is easier to understand why in the public matchmaking environment where only around 5% of the player pool even are 4-player SWF groups (of which even less use voice chat, and of which in turn only a tiny fraction is as skilled as tournament players, let alone as practiced and experienced as a team), killers overperform. I think in a scenario of a killer player facing four random survivor players (no voice communication, no prior coordination of builds, strategies or tactics) each equally as skilled and experienced as the killer player, the game is actually favouring killers. I would expect the average result to fall around 2.5 kills. Of course, different killer characters and maps affect things, but we know from public stats that none of them favour survivors universally (even the statistically weakest killer on the statistically strongest survivor map still averages above 2 kills), and so I would assume that scales into the theoretical realm of 5 completely equally skilled and experienced players facing off similarly to how the killer-leaning universal balance scales into the competitive realm. That is to say, I would expect most killers on most maps to still fall within a range of 2-2.5 kills.
One counter-argument against previous tournament stats is that there are various loadout restrictions in place for both roles. I have never taken real issue with that given that the loadouts in these tournament matches are still entirely comparable to those you will see in an average public match (if anything they are much more optimized), and argued that the overwhelming skill, experience, practice and coordination disparity would already more than make up for loadout differences compared to public teams anyway (meaning even with 10 Decisive Strikes the average public group would still not be anywhere near as competitive as these tournament teams are with their 1 Decisive Strike that they are usually allowed to have), but still, those restrictions do make the tournaments somewhat of an artificially balanced realm.
In the tournament I'm talking about now, all those restrictions were removed. So not only do you have some of the most skilled, experienced, practiced players in the world communicating with voice chat and coordinating their builds and plays, but they also get to use the most busted stuff, such as 4 Styptics/Syringes, multiple Brand New Parts, 4 Dead Hards and Decisive Strikes. This is a level of play and coordination and of sheer stacked loadouts that you will never see in public matchmaking. ...And yet, as the following stats show, the killers were absolutely able to compete.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/D3QJSAMEUAP8/wispy-everything-allowed.png
So, we have an average of 2.16 kills, again as in all other tournaments a slightly killer-leaning result. We can see that 11 of the 30 matches ended in outright killer victories (3k, 4k), 13 in outright survivor victories (0k, 1k), and 6 in ties (2k). If we take into consideration that 3 times players decided to play non-S-tier killers (Pinhead, Huntress, Oni), we can say that outright victories are basically an exact split between both roles; in terms of kills, 40% of the time killers won, 40% survivors did, and 20% of the time they drew. That's a surprising level of balance given the ridiculous loadouts at play. It is also worth pointing out that killers overwhelmingly often lose less decisively than survivors, which is to say when the killer loses they usually at least still kill 1 survivor (of 13 losses, 12 (92%) were 1 kill losses), while survivors most of the time lose with 0 escapes rather than 1 (of 11 losses, only 3 (27%) saw 1 survivor escape).
Another argument people may have even if they accept the statistical fact that the game is balanced at the top end in terms of kills, is that it is not balanced in terms of hooks. I unfortunately did not count the actual amount of hooks while watching the matches, but I believe that hook stages can still be used to draw reasonable conclusions in that regard. So, if we assume the typical "the killer can just tunnel one survivor to death and then facecamp a second survivor in the endgame to achieve a "balanced" result of 2 kills" scenario that is often brought up to argue that an outcome of 2 kills does not necessarily mean the match was "balanced" in a "healthy" way, we would expect 6 stages to be the dominant result. Looking at the stats, we can see that of 30 matches, only 6 ended in 6 stages, or one fifth/20%. 22 matches ended with at least 7 stages, meaning 73% of matches were killer victories in terms of hook stages, and they were not achieved simply by tunnelling one and camping another survivor. This is also obvious by looking at the fact that none of the 6 2k matches ended in 6 stages, all of them had more. In fact, as you can see further at the bottom of the stat sheet, the perk No Way Out was used in 66% of the matches, and it obviously encourages spreading out your hooks on all survivors. On the flipside, only 2 matches ended with less than 6 stages, a mere ~7%. It is therefore obvious that in terms of hook stages (and in deduction hooks) the game leans even more toward killers.
Now it of course has to be noted that this goes for Nurse, Blight and Spirit, players didn't usually pick other killers for obvious reasons. Either way, at least those three can provably more than compete with even the absolute best that a survivor side can put up (which is way beyond what any public group ever will). This is something that surprised even myself. I always knew the game was much more balanced than many people make it out to be, and tournament results have always supported that, but I did still believe that given the ability to use the absolutely most stacked loadouts of multiple purple med-kits with Styptics, multiple BNP, 4 DS, etc., average kills would at the very least be slightly below 2 rather than still slightly above. Pretty crazy honestly.
In other tournaments even various of the other killers average out around 2 kills and 6-8 stages with 4-kill matches absolutely being possible, but tournaments do show that only roughly half of the killers are viable at the highest level, with only Nurse, Blight and Spirit viable enough to consistently be able to 4k, Twins being a close contender. It also has to be noted that the map pool in this tournament was limited, and although it included Wreckers' Yard, Dead Dawg Saloon, Rancid Abattoir and Gas Heaven which with few exceptions represent the state of balance of most maps in this game, I do think there are more survivor-favouring maps than killer-favouring maps overall. A variety of killers deserve buffs, a variety of maps should be further adjusted. But those buffs and adjustments are not strictly necessary from a public matchmaking perspective - not only can killer players simply choose to play S-tier killers every single time if they so desire, but good killer players win the majority of their pub matches even with the lowest-tier killers. Public matchmaking even with MMR is simply not able to provide good killer players with equal opponents sufficiently consistently. But likewise, the weakest killers could all be buffed, the problematic maps all adjusted, without it all too negatively impacting public matchmaking balance either.
The perks used here tell some clear stories too. There are only 19 different survivor and 15 different killer perks in the total pool. That shows how limited the pool of the strongest perks in this game is - 34 out of a total 185 perks seeing use. Not only that, but if we look at how often the individual perks are being used, it becomes clear that it's really only a handful for either role that dominate: Dead Hard and Decisive Strike alone already make for almost half of all survivor perks used, with Borrowed Time, Unbreakable, Deliverance and Prove Thyself making up another ~40%. So almost 90% of all perks used for survivors consist of only 6 different ones. For killers it's similar, with Corrupt Intervention, Deadlock, No Way Out, Lethal Pursuer, Ruin and NOED being 6 perks combining for 86% of all perks used.
I do think a ton of perks should be buffed to get them to a level where they are even approachingly able to compete for slots with perks the likes of those mentioned, but I don't think that the limitedness of perk usage at the absolute top level is necessarily all too problematic. In games there always are a fairly limited amount of S-tier characters and items, and it's no different in DbD. Ideally there would be more for a more varied top-level meta, but in public matchmaking you can already get pretty creative with your loadouts without giving up much. However, the perks do tell us a bit about the gameplay and parts of it could be seen as problematic: The prevalence of DS, BT, Unbreakable and Deliverance show that camping, tunnelling and slugging are the most effective killing strategies that survivors have to combat. Maybe the game could be better if it was reworked to concentrate more strictly on getting as many hooks as possible rather than revolve around these strategies at the top end. On the killer side, Corrupt and Pursuer highlight that the early game is crucial for killers, they have to get pressure up as soon as possible. It could help to introduce an "early game collapse" phase after all, such as simply by blocking all generators until the first chase has begun. No Way Out and NOED on the other hand highlight the fact that killers are at a disadvantage in the endgame - healthy survivors hit with a basic attack can regularly make it to a gate even over large distances, and killers regularly cannot defend gates unless they happen to spawn within close proximity of one another. I personally would not be opposed to the idea of having NOED be a basekit mechanic, without the movement speed boost, giving survivors a totem counter at base at the same time. To bring Nurse and Spirit in line with a NOED basekit reality, I think making Lethal Blink hits and Grudge hits not count as basic hits would be a welcome adjustment (it would be even without basekit NOED).
Some other notes: No Way Out's popularity shows that even the best killer players expect to get into an endgame scenario regularly in even matches. I think there has to be a change in mentality of players to not consider a game lost just because all generators have been completed. Given a desired goal of 2 kills and 2 escapes, a balanced match obviously has to see all generators get finished. Not only that, but since killers can almost always all but guarantee 1 kill in the endgame, a balanced match much of the time is expected to see all generators get finished with at least 3 survivors still alive at that point. Food for thought.
I was surprised that Circle Of Healing didn't see more play. It goes to show that other perks are more valuable if you just bring a med-kit. The standard build for most teams was: 4 DS, 4 DH, 2 BT, 2 Deliverance, 2 Unbreakable, 2 Prove Thyself, with everything else being "tech" variations, and Circle not even being a popular tech (only brought in for 3 matches of the 30).
The problematic add-ons are definitely still problematic: Nurse's range add-ons, Spirit's Mother-Daughter Ring, Blight's Alchemist Ring, Brand New Parts, Styptics, Syringes - these are all blatantly overtuned, and particularly the survivors' ability to bring 4 overtuned add-ons is ridiculous. I would even say it's precisely the ability to bring multiple that makes them a problem - if random survivors only bring 1-2 of these (which is already fairly rare), their impact potential is mostly alright. I think SWF groups should have perk and item limitations in place, such that they can only bring any perk or item/add-on at most 1 time. The killer add-ons should simply be rebalanced.
Moris are still the most balance-relevant offering in the game. Without map offerings, survivors in this tournament usually burned Petrified Oaks, and their impact on the matches was moderate at most. The Ebony Memento Moris that killers usually burned on the other hand consistently made much more of a difference. Bypassing any and all rescue mechanics (DS, bodyblock and sabo plays, pallet and flashlight saves) as well as saving time and holding positions particularly in the endgame turned out to be crucial at various points in these matches. That said, I still think moris are in a fairly good spot now.
Final note: The finals of the tournament are actually still to be played out. They will happen next weekend, so keep on eye out on the stream I linked.
Nice stats, an average with deviation, omg... never released by the dev>
So what do we see ? Average kill is around 2 but deviation is 1.29. It means the game is totally unbalanced and that trials are never tight, it's most of the time a big loss or a big win for the killer.
Moreover, most of the trials are played with the 3 best killers...
It shows how broken the game is atm, and why SBMM is despised by the killer community...
-
Not having 4k is not a big deal to my mind, even getting only 2k is okay if you have a fair match with plenty of chases, hooks, and the feel that you can have some map control.
The problem is you have the time to do 3 chases and all the gens are done with both doors at 99%.
As a killer, you never have the feel that you have a chance, you always race against time.
1st chase, 3 gens pop, 2nd chase, 1 more gen pop, last gen pop during the 3rd chase...
Trial is over and leave you the feel that you didn't have time to play the game...
And this feeling exist even if you 4k and that is the huge problem because most of the time you did not 3k/4k because you have played well, no it was because the survivors made mistakes.
Honestly, i feel good and am happy about my trials when i got between 8 and 12 hooks without camping/tunneling once. And this is possible at an average MMR with most killers. At an average MMR, individual survivors have way less skill than me, they fall down in 30 seconds top and still it's enough for them to do all gens or almost during the time needed to do 10 hooks.
Of course, once you have reached a higher MMR you cannot play properly at all, as each individual survivor will be as good as you at looping, meaning all chases will last 1min+ so you cannot win.
-
The whole community considered the old Billy as the most balanced killer. Not OP and not weak with a good map control.
And BHVR nerfed him to the ground while they buffed the Nurse... it's just an exemple to show some absurd decisions they have made...
-
@Tr1nity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2672944#Comment_2672944
Spirit is A tier
Yup the only S tier killer is the Nurse. If Nurse is a given tier, everyone else is lower.
-
@anarchy753 said:
Personally I find myself playing less and less. I think it's wrong to say that player feedback is ignored. Rather, player feedback is collected, given to the devs, then dismissed.
The reception to boons has been overwhelmingly negative. They dictate how the entire game plays, they were obviously ridiculous from the PTB, and received the tiniest slap on the wrist nerf. Now we've had over a month of them and they're still overwhelmingly dictating how the match plays, and the new chapter completely ignored any opportunity to change them.
It's untrue to say there hasn't been some positive feedback for them, but in my experiences on both the forums and reddit, almost all positive feedback I've seen has either been "I love boons because they're so strong that they win me the game," or "######### YOU KILLERS WHO TOLD ME TO DO BONES, SUFFER THROUGH BOONS!!1!"
Most players are also very aware that the balance team struggles to make restrained decisions as soon as any survivor uses the word "boring." One of the least popular killers who already struggled with terrible map pressure received an onslaught of nerfs that has rendered them not only one of the weakest killers in the game, but just generally unfun to play. It would almost be excusable if not for it being a serious pattern, with Legion still sitting in the dumpster where they were left after their power was eviscerated. Pinhead just lost every add on that was worth using, rendering him one of the most mechanically complex killers in the game with almost no payoff beyond that of a standard M1 killer. Just a simple word of advice guys, change one or two things that people have a problem with. Don't take a list of everything that makes a killer strong, nerf all of them simultaneously, then wonder why everyone is annoyed that you gutted the killer.
Skill-based matchmaking has been a completely abysmal experience. DBD has never been well balanced in a competitive sense. It was nice that you got reset a bit each month, and taking a break meant you could come back and not be curbstomped just for being a bit out of practice. More importantly, the variation of player skill at red ranks meant variations in games. You didn't have to be completely switched-on and tryhard at every moment just to not be stomped every match.
We were promised a system that took literally years of work to build and implement, and what we received was the most basic "kills vs escapes" possible. Anyone who plays more than a week of the game knows that dying or surviving aren't anywhere close to indicative of your skill performance in a match.
I think the most negative part of the experience was that, in trying to pretend it was some sort of radical perfect system, they chose to hide how any of it worked, and only went public with the details after it was all exposed by dataminers anyway. Then in response to the feedback, we got the most condescending, patronising lecture about how "gee, it sure would be nice to actually be judged based on how you performed in a match, but that has too much nuance so we just threw 4 years of a system built to do exactly that out the window and gave you something that doesn't assess your skill AT ALL, and thought we'd get away with it by not telling you how it worked."
That was truly the most disgusted I've been with a dev response to players in any game I've played.
It's very clear to most of us veterans that changes to the game are very catered towards keeping the most casual, underperforming players happy, at the expense of people who've devoted huge amounts of time and money over the years.
It's very clear that balance and fairness to both sides, especially in the case of boons, comes a distant second to making sure that the most recent DLC sells a lot.
Nah the most disgusting BHVR response was when someone said that the killer gameplay was too frustrating and BHVR answered that it would be better to play another game 😂.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvRMd7aQ5v4 -
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2670877#Comment_2670877
Would the playerbase slighlty decrease be caused by the VHS beta?
If that's right, and people are burnt out of DbD and trying another game... make sense. However we shall see in like 30 days from now and look at the changes. If there's a problem, we will notice, but also good to mention we are not during a holiday season yet, people are at work.
Look last summer
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/KR6Q9AKRE4V6/image.png
Compared to Autumn where kids go to school, adults to work
Nah, VHS studio just has drop a few keys, 2000 was the last unofficial number. It's a closed BETA so no one can jump in as he/she wishes.
Decrease started with SBMM and continued with boons. Note that the numbers you have provided are flawed because there has been a free week-end with a huge amount of players testing the game, so those numbers are kind of an overestimation.
-
@Dino7281 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2672370#Comment_2672370
That would be huge buff, because survivors would often had to travel less distance for unhook without fear of killer.
You could just remove basement...
Yes, that's why everything else should be adjusted : gen speed, killers' powers, number of pallets/windows etc..
DbD would need an overall rebalance. To my mind DbD needs it, camping and tunneling is really killing the fun for both sides.
-
@DeadByStreetlight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2672363#Comment_2672363
I think there is no other way to stop the tunneling and camping. What would you change?
Once a survivor is hooked, the hook disappears and reappears somewhere else on the map, killer doesn't know where. Camping is then impossible, tunneling is harder.
I play killer, i never camp, i don't care if i loose and i try to have fun when playing but yes, if you don't camp/tunnel, you don't stand a chance with most killers.
When i play nurse fairly (Stage 2 on everyone before first kill), i struggle to get 3K at a good MMR...
With Demo for exemple, i barely have 2k and i cannot play as fair as with the nurse, so first kill happens when 3 survivors are S2 or when 2 are S1 and 2 are S2... With Billy it's quite hard aswell, same for Pinhead.
With other killers like Clown, PH etc... it's just impossible, the game is over when you have between 3 and 5 hooks.
The game needs a huge balance rework, it is totally unfair now.
🙂
-
@fr0sty1223 said:
If people really want this game to be better then they need to start demanding tunneling and camping be removed. Not only is it completely unfair and unfun to survivors but it also is the reason kills have to be weaker then they should be because they have to incredibly powerful strats to abuse. Get rid of these strategies and killers can be buffed to be how strong they should be
It wouldn't fix the state of the game without massive changes to balance the game (gen speed or new objectives for the survivors, less pallets, less windows, adjusting some killers' powers etc...).
And camping/tunneling has been around for 5 years, BHVR has never made the changes needed to remove this toxic aspect of the game. So even if now they agree on the fact the game needs some changes to avoid the camping plague, it won't happen for months.
And other asymmetrical games are right at the corner. DbD is in a really terrible situation now... The state of the game is totally unbalanced and most players, on both sides, don't have fun.
VHS is coming, it looks polished, fun and greatly balanced, BHVR will have a hard time to compete. I hope they will bring the changes DbD needs but i doubt they will be able to do it in less than 2 years... Unfortunately. And once players will leave for another game, they will never come back...
-
@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2671283#Comment_2671283
Alright, I'm following you! I see where all of the things you're saying connect, I get it. Experienced killers are leaving because of SBMM and boon totems, I'm with you. All of that makes sense.
What I'm missing is how that concept connects to what we're talking about. We're talking about the fact that not everyone is negative about boon totems, how does that connect to experienced killers leaving?
If many killers are stopping to play because of boons, it means they are massively negative about boons.
Then only camper/tunneler/average killers remain, resulting in longer queue times for survivors, that are then bored and also stop to play.
All this because of boons.
It has all started with the SBMM, boons just made everything worse.
So yes, the majority of the playerbase that play killer or both sides are negative about boons, everywhere, here, on reddit, on youtube, on twitter and even on Twitch etc... As the devs don't listen, players are quitting.
And the subject of the discussion is not about "being negative towards boons", it is about :
- the game being unfair/unfun
- BHVR not listening to the community feedback
- DDOS/Cheating problem
- Controversial game changes
Just check the 1st OP post....
-
@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2670918#Comment_2670918
But- okay. As plainly as you can, if you don't mind: What relevance does that have here? How does "there are no experienced killers left" even relate to "not everyone is negative about boons", let alone counter it?
I will explain as it seems you cannot put some links between events.
SBMM released -> many complaints -> huge playerbase drop after 2 weeks
Boon totems -> many complaints -> playerbase decreased even more
Before that i always faced good killers, not all the time but most of the time. Now i only face killers that do 1k most of the time.
SBMM release date : 8th September. Peak players was 71k. One month later, peak players was 55k.
Boon totems release date : 19th October. Peak players was 70k again as the update brought many curious players. 1 month later, peak = 50k. And last week it's the first time for years now that we barely reached 48k during the evening...
Before the boon totems release, survivor queue were fast, now they are pretty long. If you don't see the links between those events, i cannot help you, it's pretty obvious of what is happening right now.
When many streamers are making videos to explain how disgusted they are about the SBMM and the boons, it's concerning. You don't see it ? Fine for you. What can i say ? urn on your computer's screen and go check some info on youtube, reddit, twitter etc...
-
@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2670877#Comment_2670877
Those things aren't connected?? The point is "not everyone is negative about boons" and you're talking about the existence of skilled players in the playerbase, those two things aren't connected. I suppose the point you're trying to make here is that skilled killers must necessarily be negative about boons, but I can hardly assume you mean things you aren't saying and that still wouldn't actually affect the fact that the comment here is about the community at large.
I don't talk about the existence of skilled players in the playerbase i talk about the fact that all experienced killers have left because of SBMM + boons.
That's crazy how ppl interpret everything to their liking just to try to cancel a valuable argument.
-
@DesignDad said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2669840#Comment_2669840
As a general rule, the matchmaking system is doing the best it can with what it has to work with. By that, I mean that the limiting factor in off-peak hours is typically the players in the queue. The system is trying to match you with somebody within a pretty tight range of skill at first, but there are times where there simply aren't any other players in the queue within that range for you to match with at the moment. When this happens, the system starts expanding the acceptable ranges over time.
The basic trade off is "I can find you a match more quickly, but it might not be as balanced". We can keep the range super tight to try to enforce extremely balanced matches, but those result in pretty crazy wait times. We could also start with the range extremely open to shorten the wait times, but now the matches are all extremely unbalanced. That said, we adjust this system on the fly from time to time and take a look at how it impacts both wait times and match outcomes overall.
So most cases of "It's not updating!" or "It seems to stop working at certain times of day" are actually cases of "There just weren't any good matches in the queue for you right now". The system has no downtime, and we have yet to see any cases of improper updates (and we do check!).
With all this in mind, we are far from calling the matchmaking system perfect or done. We're still monitoring it for bugs, exploits, hiccups, and also planning general improvements. The community is a dynamic group, the game is constantly being updated, and our matchmaking is no different! One of your suspicions above is absolutely spot on, and is something we are actively looking to address. I'm reviewing a design proposal for it later today!
Love y'all talking about matchmaking so much. <3
"Tight range of skill" about a system that works only with kills/escapes without taking any other information to determine your real skill and involvement in the trial... okay
-
@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2670828#Comment_2670828
Both irrelevant to the post you're quote-responding to, and extremely subjective + unprovable.
Are you trolling?
Irrevelent ? Have you even read ? Are you trolling ?
OP was saying that there were many ppl in the community being positive about the boons and in general which is not true because the playerbase is decreasing and i have not face a single skilled killer for weeks now. Last time was 1 month ago against Truetalent and he terribly lost as the game is totally unbalanced.
Unproven ?
Ye, playerbase is increasing, it even skyrocket you are right. For the record, a new chapter is out, where is the huge peak of players coming back ? Ah ye, nowhere.
-
@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2670779#Comment_2670779
Not just survivors. I'm a killer main and I'm on record saying what a fantastic idea boon totems are, with just a few tweaks to the core mechanic and a hefty nerf to CoH specifically.
Mandy's right. Plenty of people do have positive things to say about boon totems, they're just ignored or accused of being a biased survivor main.
Well, seeing how the playerbase has decreased the last two months + the survivors' extremely long queue time in the evening all this to face a semi-baby killers or campers/tunnelers, it's obvious there are no skilled killers around. By "no" i mean that they are few still playing.
This is the result of SBMM and it worsen with the boons...
-
@Lochnload_exe said:
I see so many people leaving killer and I can see why, the role is much more stressful than survivor, but where did people get this idea that it shouldn't be?
In any game that is 1v4 or etc., the role that is by themselves will obviously be more stressful because you are your whole team. I really don't know where this idea of killer needing to be super easy win mode came from, the game has always been rough for killers and right now, killer has much less to worry about than they used to.
I get complaining about survivors being strong but here is something I always think about. If the 4 survivors are using their 4 strongest perks, and you as killer are not also using your 4 strongest perks, why is it a shock when you lose? If you aren't putting yourself at the same level perk-wise, why do you beat yourself up when you lose? They have an advantage over you and losing is definitely more in your favor.
This isn't bad though, that is how games work. What I don't understand is why this is complained about so hard. I do believe killer needs some basekit buffs, but acting like killer's get steamrolled super hard every game just isn't true. If all you care about is winning as killer, 4k etc, then it is super possible. You can play scummy, you can throw on the best perks, you can throw on the best killer, and use map offerings all you want, just like they can do. All is fair and part of the game.
It isn't fun to me to do that lol and if it isn't fun for you and you want to use stuff you like, then do it. Play and have fun, don't care about winning or getting a 4k, a 2k is perfectly fine. If you aren't playing hard to win like they are, don't be upset when you lose, be happy when you can beat them despite the advantage. If you only want to win, then you most certainly can, I promise that.
Play 20 trials as the Demogorgon, PH, Trapper and Clown with META perks at high MMR, and come back here telling us the game is fair and that the killers have a chance to win.
-
@Mandy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2670734#Comment_2670734
Plenty of people have said positive things about boon totems - the thing is most people look at one side only.
Survivors love boons, sure it makes everything easy, especially CoH that unbalanced the game terribly.
-
@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2670718#Comment_2670718
She's an M1 killer...with a permanent instadown and (if you use the iri) permanent wallhacks. I love groups who don't cleanse, don't think I've ever lost to one. She also absolutely counters CoH. I like to run her with Plaything+Retribution, which means I get a ton of easy ambushes too.
Her key is 'consistency' - while Nurse can be streaky. Watch Otz's '50 wins with Nurse' video - he had a hell of a rough time. Meanwhile he managed 100 wins with Plague.
Viable at high MMR? Nurse, Blight, Plague, Spirit, Hag. In that order imho.
Only nurse can 4k regularly at high MMR against SWF level survivors.
The other killers you have listed can do 5 hooks at best...
-
@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2670675#Comment_2670675
Demo - sure. He still needs some love.
Plague though...Plague does fantastically at high MMR. She just has a very complicated kit that steers players towards easier and more intuitive killers.
Since boons, I'd say she's replaced Hag as the strongest 'A' tier killer in the game.
I disagree for the High MMR with the Plague. If the survivors don't use the fountains, she is just a basic M1 killer and on most maps there are so many safe loop areas that she cannot do anything and will loose 1 minute to catch an injured survivor.
For the killer tier list, i have never understood the point. Why do we need tier S, A, B. The only question is : which killers are viable at high MMR ? (viable = if you are great with this killer you can win most of your games with this killer or at least you can have 100% close trials).
So which killers are viable at high MMR ? Nurse and that's all. (Dunno for the artist, haven't played her yet).
Viable : Nurse
Not viable : Everyone else
-
@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2670637#Comment_2670637
We'll have to see.
Plague got an amazing rework, as did Demo. The changes to addons were fantastic and a few small tweaks to the basekit just made them fun to play. Demo still needs a bit of love (he really struggles in some situations, Shred is a bit too easy to juke and avoid) but both of these were well done.
Freddy was a terrible job. He probably needed a small nerf, but they also took a lot of the fun out of his addons. Ditto Slinger and Wraith.
Pig was...sigh. Shifting around a few addons just didn't help her - she still has to play extremely 'toxic' (chasing people off boxes to try and force them to instadie) because her chase is just so incredibly weak.
If Pig, Wraith, Freddy, Legion, Ghostface, PH, Twins and honestly Hag (she can be effective but 110% killers always feel so damn clumsy, which I suspect is a big reason why nobody plays her, plus her addons are crap) got Plague tier reworks, this game would be so much healthier.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2670633#Comment_2670633
People said the same about League of Legends.
Riot introduced the Tribunal, and it was night and day. If I recall, something like 80% of toxic players reformed after their first warning, and 50% of the remainder reformed after their first ban.
Now obviously a Tribunal for DbD is just a fantasy. BHVR would likely never bite. But the key word is 'moderation'. Some more overt, and if needed heavy-handed moderation of both ingame and chat behavior (lul) would go a long way towards improving the experience for everyone.
Hell, you could even try a more 'carrot' approach, by encouraging people to use the 'thumbs up/down' feature to rate their opponents postgame and give some BP rewards when you get upvoted.
Demo and Plague, even though the changes have been welcome, cannot compete at high MMR against good coordinated survivors.
In fact, almost every killers is way too weak to be efficient at a good level.
You got Nurse and Billy that are good enough and both need hours and hours to be mastered.
Spirit is now pretty average and Blight is totally buggy.
The maps need to be reworked, there are too many tiles, windows and many are too big, map control is then totally impossible for the majority of killers.
And to go back to the main object of this discussion, i agree that BHVR is farming a negative reputation and the impact that had the last updates on the game playerbase is huge.
There are no more high MMR killers, it's pretty obvious and everyone sees it.
- High MMR survivors are facing babies, campers and tunnelers only
- As a killer you cannot play fair and win unless if you play the nurse (maybe Billy but i doubt it)
- Every streamers agree on the fact that the state of the game is terrible and many of them are burning out
- This forum is dying, many have been banned for free just because they have said something that the mod disliked
- Least but not last, the players numbers took a huge hit and we barely reach the 50k peak players on steam, unseen situation for years now
Well, you can now understand why many players (40k+) rushed the discord of another promising asymmetrical game...