Ithiria
Ithiria
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- Ithiria
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My edgiest idea is this:
If a player dies on hook while 2 other players haven't been hooked, a shrine spawns, one of those players can offer up a hookstate at that shrine to bring the dead player back with full health on deathhook.
This isn't meant to stop late-game tunneling, it's for the "facecamp/tunnel a guy to death at 5 gens" type of stuff. Tunneling at 5 gens works more often than not because survivors won't all just sit on gens to punish you, one or two of them will usually be trying to save, take hits, etc. which means you've got multiple players not doing gens, leaving an impossible game once your tunnel is successful.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3321068#Comment_3321068
Tbh I don’t see a world where regression isn’t meta regardless of how gen times are changed
When 75% of killers are designed to shorten chase your just better off focusing your perks into slowing gens. Even if the numbers are nerfed further I’d imagine 3 slowdown would still be used most games
You can say killers want to experiment but we’ve seen on both sides that people just don’t do that because it makes matches harder
It's hard to say that people really would inherently stack regression though when the developers have refused to not have amazing regression perks in the game.
If you throw overcharge, pop, thana, deadlock, corrupt, call of brine, jolt, eruption, pain res in the trash as a thought experiment, I don't think people are going to run like, grim embrace ruin dying light gift of pain. Bhvr haven't tried to make killers run different things, they nerfed ruin/pop/undying while buffing other perks, the suggestion wasn't "consider a different kind of perk" it was "bring different slowdown perks."
Even if they did run that build, I don't think survivors would complain about them as much. And as always I would endorse map nerfs to go with nerfs to the meta killer perks.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3320378#Comment_3320378
Efficient survivors are not going to be most of them with how this MMR system works though.
Almost any time I log in to play DBD there is a 100% killer bonus in my region. Something like 95% of the players in my games are efficient when I play my highest ranked killer. Don't be telling me how my games play out when you're not in them.
Simply put DBD is not a fair game when one side plays efficiently. For survivor this is gen rushing and for killer it's tunneling.
Well yeah, dbd isn't, a lot of that needs to be tuned down.
I really don't get how that's happening for you with how the MMR system works though. It doesn't even happen to the killer main streamers I watch sometimes.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3320308#Comment_3320308
-"The stronger killers do not require slowdown perks to do well"
All the big name streamers I watch would largely seem to prove otherwise. When against efficient survivors you need strong perks.
Blight and Nurse are the best killers. There's no way you are going to tell me the best killers do better with meme perks vs strong perks.
"When against efficient survivors you need strong perks."
Yes, beating sweaty people will usually require being sweaty.
Efficient survivors are not going to be most of them with how this MMR system works though.
You don't see hens and gang going for their SWF winstreak bringing meme perks either, so this goes both ways.
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It's kind of ironic that it was nerfed because it's problematic on two killers
And the solution they chose was to make it only viable on those two killers.
They would never go for this, because it's a silly solution, but adding a line "this perk cannot be equipped on the Legion or the Plague" and buffing it would be satisfactory to me lmao.
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Freddy is a huge chatterbox in the movies so it only makes sense
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I struggle to choose between Garden of Joy and Cowshed.
But I think Garden of Joy is a bit more consistent than Cowshed.
Cowshed has a lot of randomness that can take it from just being an average survivor-sided map towards utter insanity. I know OP said to disregard RNG... but I dunno, I think RNG is very important because some maps are affected by it more than others. Also, the Garden of Joy is the only map in its realm. Cowshed is part of a 5-map realm and the other 4 maps are much more fair so frankly it being imbalanced is less of a problem since map offerings aren't so good.
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Garden is pretty messed up, worst on the list. I don't actually mind swamp even! I'd like it if they hit a couple maps at the same time though.
I think it'd be fair to tweak Garden of Joy at the same time as Dead Dawg Saloon.
Dead Dawg's one of my favorite maps as survivor, but it's certainly probably the most killer-sided map in the game and needs some work. It could use a few gens being relocated, survivor spawns should be reworked, killer shack should lose its breakable wall, that back area away from the town could use stronger loops.
There's a lot of maps that need work, but don't need much work either. Shelter woods, for example, just needs some better tile spawning for survivors and then it'd be a-okay.
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You should be happy he's choosing to camp hook and not camp cage.
A PH who understands the cage can camp it and instantly down you after you get uncaged because you don't get borrowed time. The cage will teleport away if he stands right in front of it, but the radius for this happening is only 5 meters. His powers range is 8m without addons, so it's easy to measure this.
The cage basically tries to spawn as far away from him as possible and each map has fixed locations where it can spawn. So with experience you can figure it out.
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Not in order.
- Nemesis. The Zombie RNG is very frustrating. I don't really enjoy going against his chase power once he has his levels. They also all seem to be very serious? I don't think I've ever met a nemesis running a goofy build or that gave someone hatch.
- Plague. I am very squeamish and honestly probably emetophobic, so she's very uncomfortable.
- Knight. Obvious complaint is just dropping his power at a loop and forcing you to hold w to the next one. But also, after putting a lot of hours into playing him, I've come to find that his optimal playstyle is frankly pretty evil. Basically asides from what you do in chase abuse your 3-gen potential.
Honorable mentions: Blight, but only when he brings his amazing addons. Legion if they focus on forcing you to mend all the time even if you're already injured, not all do this though.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3320249#Comment_3320249
Tell me which would be harder to loop in chase: The very best trapper in the world (but all his traps are disarmed) or just an average Blight?
You can disarm beartraps for free and it makes him a joke vs SWF teams. He has no real ability to slow down the game and getting free damage on trap disarm would make him not be a D tier killer.
Trapper used to have crazy RNG so that it might take 2 tries to get out of a trap or you might be stuck still at 24 tries. Honestly that was more fair because most of the time it felt like getting out was 8-10 tries. Trapper got some of the most brutal nerfs in the first year (to be fair the no trap under hook is fair and I can't fathom why Hag doesn't get the same treatment).
With bloody coil you can make the argument that if he plays on a map with grass then he is an A tier killer. Without that Addon he's easily in the bottom five of all killers - but still better than Doctor.
There is no reason to have Doctor or Trapper in the same game as Blight and Nurse. It's literally the same thing as choosing Dan over Ken in Street Fighter. Dan is there as a meme; you pick him with the idea that if you win with Dan then the person you are playing against really sucks.
If you want to keep trapper weak then you can never be mad when you only face the top ~8 killers every game all using strong addons.
Disarming traps isn't free, it requires you to be there and invest time into it.
Trapper doesn't really win by having conveniently disarm-able traps anyhow, you generally win by creating a web, hooking someone in it, and then goad survivors into making mistakes that coalesces into more of them having to come save, making their own mistakes, and all dying from it.
Bloody coil just makes this strategy..... super ######### up. If they did make it baseline I guarantee it would get reverted or he'd receive a nerf.
Also why is doctor all the ways down there? His anti-loop power is certainly pretty usable and has a bunch of benefits and cool perk synergies, along with a nice selection of addons.
And I mean, I already said what I think would help which is overall nerfing several maps to make killers without strong chase powers more viable. Nurse and Blight are so special because they don't care much that you got a Shack -> Long Wall Jungle Gym -> Cowtree chain. Once anti-loop is not so necessary things will be much nicer.
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@DBDVulture said:
The problem is that you can play survivor just fine for free.
Killer requires you have the appropriate slowdown perks. You may also require very specific perks for whichever chassis you are using.
Killer needs 6-10 DLC's on average as a bare minimum to have a decent perk selection.
Also I hate to say but his grind estimate is just dumb. Back in 2016 I had a friend that needed 116 levels to get Iron Will level 3 on jake. This was because way back when you got 1 perk from an "end tier" web. It was also due to a bug that made all the pink perks appear in your web first (for those of you that remember pink purple and green tier perks).
By the time I get a new survivor to prestige level 2 I have all the perks. A new player would likely still have everything before level 3 prestige even if every other character was unlocked but not leveled.
Also I hate to be that guy but survivors are skins. You do not need to level them all especially if they have stupid meme perks.
The stronger killers do not require slowdown perks to do well with. It's mostly just the weak ones who have to patch together their lack of chase power/map pressure who need them if they aren't willing to win through tunneling.
I straight up bring memey builds all the time as killer because good builds just aren't necessary to win the overwhelming majority of games.
Yeah, survivor perks aren't as impactful, but you'd expect that to be the case when they have 16 perks between them.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3320210#Comment_3320210
From another comment about the topic:
The Incapacitation effect is what makes Eruption one of the few ways the killer have to really stop gen progression and that's why it is the most effective weapon against gen rushing right now. Most regression perks have the inconvenience of just start regressing the gen, which can be solved in less of a second with a little tap from a survivor. And the insta-regression is not much of a problem: Even Pain Res, which have 15% insta-regression only adds around 8 seconds to the repair time if two survivors are working on that exploded gen without perks or items. In a meta where a single chase can cost you 3 gens, that's not enough time to even find your next survivor to chase after a hook.
Also, why everything the killer do need to have a counterplay? How many things survivors have that the killer can't do anything about? How can I counter Sprint Boost? Blast Mine? Self-Care? Off the Record? What a killer can do against someone with WoO going from pallet to pallet without even trying to loop?
If you want to change how Eruption works, first you should address the gen rushing meta to keep the balance.
That post is pretty hyperbolic
Not everything the killer does has strong counterplay. But very few things are as strong as applying a pain res-like effect to multiple gens with 25 seconds of incapacitated.
Many killers don't run Eruption and are very successful, only 20% even run it. You don't need it.
This doesn't mean you can't ask for Killers to get their own buffs or for survivors to lose certain things too. What even is the gen rushing meta? People doing their objectives? True genrush teams bringing multiple hyperfocuses, prove thyself, and BNPs are super rare. This person sounds like they're suffering from a horrible early game more than anything else, and should consider bringing corrupt to help with that.
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@Stabby_Widdershins said:
And what happens if another survivor picks up your item and leaves with it?
Do they keep it? Do they lose it? Do you lose it? Is it now duplicated (Which, btw, would be abuseable)?
White Wards are so rare in the bloodweb that this could just be accepted if BHVR really wanted to, it wouldn't dupe THAT many items.
But they could also just have it so that if it does get picked up, then you don't keep it.
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@faithfulknight said:
It doesn't matter matter how many you report, they come back triple fold. You send evidence to the support team, they don't care they'll use another account.
Why is this game not fully server-sided?
Being "fully server-sided" doesn't stop hacking, games like Dota and League still have plenty of it. As long as your game can accept input hacks will exist, they'll just be more subtle.
For example wallhacks will probably always be a thing for a game like Dead by Daylight, even if you try to hide the location of survivors from the client until the information is necessary, just because it won't be feasible to write an algorithm to hide them when behind walls in a chase (and besides, their location data is provided by their sound emitters.)
Bhvr don't seem to have amazing developer resources to me (this isn't saying that the people are bad or anything, but possibly limited by a small team working on a hastily-thrown together game) and pulling off this stuff ideally is super difficult. They're working on it, anyways.
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Most meta perks are coincidentally also on really popular survivors, and one perk slot isn't a lot, so I don't think this would change much of anything.
It'd honestly just be a buff to killers by making it easier to guess a couple survivor perks. It'd hurt a few characters too, like Elodie and Yun-jin would become even less popular.
Were you to do this change it should be done for flavor, not because it'd change the survivor meta.
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@havoc said:
Hello, I have +3600 hours in the game and i play both roles about the same amount.
In the last 2 weeks my 2 best friends i played DBD with both quit and by now almost all those i played DBD with have quit. Their reasons are the current meta and that the game just isn't fun currently. I still play daily but i fully understand their point of view, the game is not as fun as it used to be.
I have some Suggestions to improve the game play and hopefully boost the player base again to help the game continue to move forward.
First of all i would change the rank/pip system to be based on hooks. I saw the news about changing it to depend on kills only and I'm afraid that will make more killers play the game in a less fun way for both sides.
I would suggest killers pip/rank system should depend on hooks, it would mean the killer should go for more hooks rather than trying to kill a survivor in their first hook stage. so hooking someone is 1 point, reaching second stage on first hook does not make it 2 points.
I would suggest that 0-3 hooks should mean you get "The entity hungers.." (minus 1 rank)
4-6 hooks should give "Brutal Killer" (no rank difference)
7-9 hooks should give "Ruthless Killer" (plus 1 rank)
10-12 hooks should give "Merciless Killer" (plus 2 rank) And adept if you're trying to get that.
Also i would suggest a few perk changes to provide a better and more fun and fair game play for both sides.
Eruption: Change the duration of "incapacitated" to 12-14-16 seconds depending on perk tier 1/2/3
Call of Brine: Change the regression percentage to 125-150-175% depending on perk tier 1/2/3
Dead Hard: Either reduce the movement speed after a successful dead hard. I think currently it's 1.8 second of boosted movement speed after the hit, I would suggest changing that to 1.0 seconds. Or change it so after a successful dead hard the survivors mending timer will be going down even while sprinting or in chase over a certain amount of time. That would still buy the survivor time in chase and give an option to mend if the killer leaves you. The mending timer should stop while mending so you could perhaps try to mend in chase after vaulting a window or dropping a pallet.
Stake Out + Hyperfocus combo. I would suggest these perks should not work together or maybe change the stake out perk as almost nobody uses it without hyperfocus. Hyperfocus requires some skill to work but stake out makes it too easy and strong.
Off the Record: Keep prevented aura reading, keep suppressed grunts of pain, remove endurance effect and instead add a 5% speed increase when repairing gens, healing, cleansing, blessing and opening exit gates. For maybe 40/50/60 seconds.
Sorry for the long post, i hope this might be useful. - Havoc
On hyperfocus
What pushes hyperfocus over the edge is that it can be combo'd with a toolbox. This is both because toolboxes A. multiply your odds of getting skillchecks by 5x (this isn't said in-game, you have to read patch notes for this) and because the skill checks from BNP count for hyperfocus.
Otherwise hyperfocus is... alright. It doesn't have much of an effect until you can build stacks so it's heavily dependent on RNG, and it's extremely difficult to hit 6 stacks without stake out (which of course requires building up stacks of THAT perk too.)
Make it not work with toolboxes and I think you fix the pain people have with it, where players in cracked SWFs bring toolboxes, stake out, hyperfocus and can then slap a gen in 40 seconds solo without even using prove thyself.
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You could leave the gen speed on resilience and simply make it apply haemorrhage to the survivor to make it actually inherently risky.
Resilience isn't a top tier perk because it gives you extra gen speeds (among other things.) It's a top tier perk because good users can 99 a heal on themselves and finish up the moment they hear a terror radius.
To compensate you could toss on 9% mending speed and totem blessing speed to make it genuinely affect basically every action.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3320095#Comment_3320095
-"Let me guess, BNP or Syringe are preferctly fine and balanced Add-Ons right"
That's exactly my point. If the killer had something on the level of a BNP it would let them once per game turn off a completed generator or worse. Imagine if the killer had an offering where once per game they could press "Z" and that gen became a trap generator. Once "completed" it would become inert and never be able to be completed for the rest of the game (and not count for completed gens).
Instant heals would be "fine" if you could only heal twice per game and then became broken base kit.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3320129#Comment_3320129
So here's the issue. Clown is a joke with no pinky finger. Should he bother playing without pinky finger?
Trapper is in a worse situation because he has to slowly collect his power. He should have Bloody Coil Base kit.
Bloody coil basekit would be way too strong, the addon is genuinely amazing.
I think the reason they don't buff tend to buff trapper is that he's quite snowbally as is, and buffing his power could make him insanely oppressive.
Best way to buff these killers actually isn't a buff to their power, but instead would be a nerf to strong survivor-sided maps imo. One thing most weak killers have in common is that they are extremely map dependent as they lack great chasing powers, in contrast the best killers generally aren't very bothered by the tiles and maps they get.
Clown isn't even bad either, he has a decent skill-floor but once you hit it I think he's a solid mid-tier. He might drop if regression gets nerfed though since he does depend on it.
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@StarLost said:
- Hook grabs. These have always been silly, aren't much fun for anyone and far too often turn unhooks into a 'you rolled a 1 and now it's a 4k' frustration chain.
- Kobes. 99% of the time it's just suicide, and an easy way to bail on a match without getting a penalty. 1% of the time, it's really, really frustrating for the killer. Rework perks and addons as needed.
- Useless addons and offerings. I swear, far too much of my BP goes into stuff that is either really bad, or straight up handicapping myself.
- No Mither. Just...get rid of it and give David something that isn't essentially a 'we lose' button. I swear, this adept is a team killer.
- Knockout. This perk has almost no practical use and is only really utilized to grief solo queue players. Replace it with something better, and healthier.
On #3, it's not THAT easy.
They're gradually doing it anyhow, killers with garbage addon sets have been getting reworks every once in awhile.
It's only really like.... Pyramid Head, Nemesis, Billy, and Freddy who have terrible addon selections where there's a tiny handful of good addons. Wanting everything to be good is asking for a bit much, I think we should be happy at just having plenty of options, even if some are niche.
On offerings they do need to swap the shrouds, but otherwise they're pretty fine to me? I'd like map offerings reworked but that's a separate issue.
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I think distortion's effect is fine as-is.
Way I see it, it serves 2 strong purposes right now.
- It lets you figure out what perks the killer has. If you vault a window against pyramid head and lose a totem, then you can know that he has I'm All Ears which is useful to know. You can also stop guessing against BBQ and chilli, etc..
- With how strong undying is it's good to have a perk that lets you perform a cleanse without having your aura presented in the early game.
Maybe you could buff it's duration a little bit to 15 seconds to add some leeway for the second purpose but otherwise it does its job well, its downfall is a lack of communication in non-SWF. A lot of perks suffer from this unfortunately. You'd need to add some sort of indication that teammates can see when a token is used to fix that.
Making its duration permanent would make it kind of a selfish perk and actually be a nerf to skillful use. I'd rather an off the record buff for long-term aura reading prevention in that case, but even that perk is alright rn imo.