HowsMars
HowsMars
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@pseudechis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3208628#Comment_3208628
You honestly think dbd’s gameplay can capture the feeling of playing xenomorph?
I mean they can run on all surfaces so confining them to the single plain that encompasses a dbd chase would be kinda crappy.
But making play like a xenomorph should, running up and over walls etc, would just break the game.
You’d probably end up with the xeno being nothing but a killer skin with a lunge. It’d be a meh game experience.
Unfortunately you are right that they will never be able to make the xenomorph the perfect organism like its supposed to be, and just making at another "lunge" killer or some other killer clone that they've been releasing alot lately
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@Jessymay3214 said:
Now I’m not attacking behavior for their recent killers.
Wesker is great, however with the addition of such out of place killers into this game to me the “that killer doesn’t fit the game” argument is dead.
If we can have Wesker, we can have springtrap, alien, a giant spider.
whatever.
So when we adding my main man the xenomorph
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@Edilibs said:
In a pool of Blights, Nurses and Weskers with your typical meta perks and builds (Lethal Pursuer, Scourge Hooks, Eruption etc) how do "you" make the game more fun to play or interesting for other players?
Me:
- I play weaker killers like Clown and Trapper (I play 13 killers in total)
- I "sometimes" use non meta perks and builds like for example, Distressing Hag, Clown, Trapper and Wesker (Sloppy Butcher/Claurophobia/Unnerving Presence/Distressing)
- Although i like Wesker i stopped using him bc there are too many Weskers right now
- I play Hag
- I play Body Block Hag
- I play No Way Out Trapper
- I play Twins
-I play all Hexes on killers sometimes
- I "never" burn moris ever
- I never use iris
Good thing for players like me and your welcome! )
It's nice to see someone who can look at this game as a way for everyone to have fun and not a keyboard war on why one side is wrong and the other isn't.
Generally I like to play mostly killers I have fun playing against: dredge, wraith, deathslinger, nemesis, pinhead, and funnily enough pinball man himself.
I usually dont run meta build since I'm always trying to find weird builds that work when put in the right condition (skill check hell with doctor and distressing for the perks to have more distance), but overall trying to just have a good time and mess around with builds that add more to the match then just winning chases or gen slowdown.
I wish I could say I consistently try to only have a good time but after 2-3 matches of toxic survivors or even a bully squad it can be hard to continue trying to make the match fun when one side just wants to "win" at the expense of the killers sanity. Also I'm not saying survivors are OP I'm just saying that an overwhelming majority will result to t bagging and BM after they see the killer isn't running a meta build and bully them
For the most part the game should be fun for everyone and unique and creative builds should be the norm in my opinion
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My only advice for going against highly skilled survivors is to just throw out the survivor rule book for killers and try your absolute best to create pressure when and where you can no matter the tactic, in the matches your playing against 4 man swf sweat squads the only thing you can do is try your best to get a 2k or get a lucky 3k if they get sloppy and make massive mistakes. The game shouldn't only be balanced around high rank play however it can be frustrating as a killer to go into a match with these kinds of teams and be forced to have a insufferable time getting flashlight stunned and T bagged from people who abuse the game. In the terms that it's just a match against random survivors and 1, 2, or 3 of them are good then just try to play around the weak link and set up for late game when you have more control, I don't think the game is all that survivor sided anymore its just the issue that survivors who are highly experienced at the game still have the ability to abuse certain mechanics in a squad and that most killers are still unable to counter those tactics. Overall the "61%" quote I see isn't really meaningful since for killers your goal is to get a 3k or higher to "win" a match, although it doesn't mean that killers should be able to consistently get a 3 or 4k in games unless you are playing considerably well and even then at that point you will run into the bully squads doing so, best you can do is relax and have a good time playing and when you run into toxic players just use whatever you can to take them out even if it means camping or tunneling.
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I'd say that the perk synergy and using a combination of items and perks to achieve a faster gen time is a double edge blade for survivors since they need to take up perk slots and an item slot to just speed up what could be a max of 3 gens start game ( assuming you find a chase a survivor during the time ), by doing this they can limit themselves to being in a 3 gen or even just remove their ability to win chases or heal depending on what they take with what they have left over. This still doesn't make it all that easy for the killer but if you throw out the survivor rule book for killers and just try to 1 hook or tunnel someone to increase pressure and take the game back that could help stop these situations from resulting in a loss ( 1 or less survivors killed at end match ), this is also assuming you aren't facing a sweat lord swf who play way too much and abuse the game itself to their favor. Overall I think that gen times can be helped by just reducing the effectiveness of the gen speed perks ( down to the levels that most killer perks are balanced to being at ) and also making better perk synergy for killer perks aswell ( eruption with oppression as an example )
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@BeardedScrub said:
For this game to be "balanced" most killer mains are asking to be able to kill 4 survivors most matches...
Even if you get 4 kills HALF of your matches and 2 kills your other matches, that averages out to 3 kills per match. That means 3 out of every 4 survivors won't make it!!!
In what world is that "balanced"?
In solo q, I don't know if our squad makes it out alive even 10% of the time. And in a full squad we maybe make it out 20% of the time.
When you get a killer with certain perks and add-ons, like Freddy, Spirit, even the Hag with her traps, these killers can be virtually impossible to beat.
Then we have killer mains on here whining all day because they are getting t-bagged...
If you aren't getting 2 to 4 kills every match (meaning the game is balanced towards killer) then you absolutely suck.
Of course we should nerf DS, and if we keep the game in the state it's in, n I'm okay, but please, if you are going to nerf anything survivor, nerf the traps of the Hag, nerf Freddy or the Spirit.
Yes we have a problem with q times. That's the only reason why they cater so much to killers. They have to or the game won't survive so I'm okay with it. But killers: a successful match isn't 4k or bust, and again, if you aren't getting 2k or more in most matches, you suck, even my friend who's new to the game can play underpowered killers and get 2 kills each match
So I just want to begin this by asking 2 questions
1. Do you play killer?
2. Do you play in high rank? (5-1)
With the issue of getting a 4k I think it's just a general misconception of what a killers goal in a match is to "win" aka a ruthless or merciless killer score in a match ( this is because Brutal killer is a draw in high ranks and thats what I'm basing this off of). For a killer their objective is to get as many points as they can to achieve this goal of gaining pips to either further their rank or too gain blood points to spend if already max rank, but that doesn't change that people don't play the game to draw all the time or to even "barly" win the match and gain little to no progress, this includes both survivors or killers.
Dead by daylight is a competitive game in my opinion since it's a team of 4 vs a team of 1, although it has no "Ranked" mode because the game is always locked into a ranked mode already. As such you shouldn't expect people to always be laid back and casually playing matches since people are going to see the ranking system and want to climb to the top and this is the majority of high rank players having this mind set to get or keep their rank 1 status as well.
So with all that in mind let's get back to the issue at hand, is a killer getting a 4k everygame they play balanced?, my answer to this is yes BUT this doesn't mean that the killer deserves no matter what to get 4k's everygame. If a person is skilled enough then there shouldn't be anything wrong with them gaining a score worthy of the skill and effort they put in, however if they are barely even put effort or are just straight bad then they don't deserve that score at all. The game shouldn't be balanced towards either side always having a win no matter the effort or skill difference between the 2, if someone played better then they get the better score it's as simple as that, a game should never be balanced to cater to either side of that match but dead by daylight has its share of mechanics doing so for both sides that I personally dislike and think should be removed. I don't think there is anything else I missed in the context of the first question so let's move on.
Broken killers: Hag, Spirit, and Freddy are all very strong killers and can easily achieve score that may be un reachable with certain killers or even having the ability to level the playing field of a match vs strong survivors with little effort put in. With all that I still don't think that the killers are "broken" in any sense but more of difficult to outplayed or counter, and of course throwing in perks to the situation like spirit with stridor is a whole new situation but still is something that survivors can "counter" with perks like iron will which is a perk that carries a high pick rate. In general my point is that the killers aren't "broken" just more difficult to play against than other killers, and as for Hag traps just grab a flash light and avoid grass as much as possible. But these killers are no where near "virtually" impossible to beat.
As for DS my only issue with it is that it gets abused and give survivors the ability to play recklessly and get away with it and punishing the killer for doing anything to retaliate, but for its intended use against tunneling I have no issues.
I dont think the game caters to killers or survivors very much anymore but I do think the game has a very slight survivor bias in some areas of its design whether new or old. I'd expect you to understand these things if you play killer in high rank and im not against any arguments against what I said I just ask you don't throw personal feeling and bias as your argument cause then il just disregard it. As for your friend that's new to the game it isn't surprising since the game is in my opinion killer sided and survivors just starting out don't really know how to play the game but this issue or balance switches sides once you hit ranks (8-1) since survivors now know how to draw out chases, have access to good perks, and know how to abuse the mechanics against the killers. Again that was opinion but it is based off of what I've experienced playing both sides of that game.
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@TangledNoodles said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1841816#Comment_1841816
Why do pips matter? They're literally USELESS you get absolutely nothing for pipping. I still don't get why people even care about ranks it's not like you get a reward at the end of a season... NOTHING.
Because progression through the ranks is your reward for pipping? same exact concept right there can be used for alot of popular games with multiplayer why does leveling up matter if you get nothing for it. Also if pips don't matter then why are you so concerned by 4k? You just get less points and don't pip it doesn't matter right
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@killermainxd said:
"meta perks like spin chill and alert" dawg ######### 😂😂😂
taking information perks instead of crutch perks will be harder at first but get you way farther once you learn how to loop effectively without needed a hand holding perk. only meta part about them is the ability to track the killers and see if hes looking at you within a certain radius. these perks take alot more experience to use effectively but once you learn how to they become miles better than stuff like OoO,DS,UB, and others since it offers a constant watch on the killer with no downside unless the killer walks like a crab and never breaks anything. calling alert meta may be a bit too far but it offers alot for what it is
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@TangledNoodles said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1835525#Comment_1835525
Are you on crack? lol. So basically you want an easy game where you always get 4ks. 2 kills is balanced where the both the killer and survivors get a decent amount of points.
to be fair a 4k doesnt matter, but if you play very well in a match you deserve to get merciless killer and 2 pip. this wont always require a 4k so kills dont matter too much its just the emblem system gets a bit shaky in red rank. in my opinion 4k doesnt matter but getting a 2 pip after playing well does, which sometimes doesnt happen because of people getting 2 hooked or the last survivor who got hatch only got hooked once, issue isnt the 4k but they kinda push you to it to make sure you get your points
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@TangledNoodles said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1835479#Comment_1835479
They weren't but the amount of killers that ######### about things vs survivors is way higher imo.
Take mori's for example, they used to be an insta kill back in the day. Now that they got nerfed all I see is complaining over and over.
remember when survivors threatened to review bomb the game until killers they didnt like playing against got nerfed? and then review bombing the game after almost every buff to killer back in 2016 and dodging any lobby with a nurse or spirit?. i do, i remember.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1838680#Comment_1838680
- I definitely agree that Dead Hard is strong and can extend chases for quite a while if used at the perfect time (e.g. for distance in order to reach a pallet). Even if it's clunky and inconsistent to use at times, the potential is there. I wouldn't be opposed to nerfing the lunge distance a bit, because that's the part of the perk that can really extend chases; otherwise the killer needs to get baited into swinging through the Dead Hard, and that's of course avoidable. Still, like most survivor meta perks, it's actually pretty inconsistent. Some matches it'll be literally the difference between life and death, and other times you'll hardly get any use out of it. I would agree that needing to be injured isn't necessarily a huge drawback, but it's relevant nonetheless - Imagine you're playing a killer with an instadown, for example; before you get downed the first time, your Dead Hard is useless. You can play the rest of the game injured to try to preserve your Dead Hard and just rush gens while injured, which is risky (although often still a good move), or you can heal for added stealth and more safety against the M1 but have a dead perk slot is the killer instadowns you. You don't even have that choice if you're playing against killers like Huntress or Clown who can apply exhaustion during the chase. If you had Lithe or Sprint Burst or something you could make distance before being exhausted, but Dead Hard would be 100% useless in those matches.
- I agree that slugging is useful for building pressure and that Unbreakable is therefore a strong perk to use to counter slugging, but slugging is really only useful in certain situations: 1) You have a time-sensitive opportunity to pressure survivors that you'd risk missing out on if you hook the survivor (e.g. you see another survivor near to the downed survivor, Tinkerer procs on a gen 40m away right as you down them). 2) The survivor you downed was very recently unhooked and there's an obsession in the match. Most of the time, then, slugging isn't going to be very beneficial and hooking that survivor is going to be the best play. In those cases Unbreakable does nothing. Sometimes the killer is able to apply pressure and get back to the slug before they get to use their UB, and in that case it also does nothing. Even when it gets used, though, slugging that survivor still probably allowed you to pressure multiple survivors at once. UB just allows the survivors to waste less time breaking the pressure.
- I see what you're getting at with Pop, but the benefit of the perk doesn't go away if survivors are able to power gens you popped. Even in that rough scenario where you pop the gen and chase a survivor away from it but another hidden survivor pops out and gets back to work on the gen, you still wasted 20+ seconds of survivor repair time with your pop. Even if you don't make it back to the gen in time to stop it from being completed, that hidden survivor therefore had to spend 20+ more seconds repairing that generator before being able to move on to another generator. The same sort of logic applies to the slowdown from Thanat - survivors finishing gens doesn't mean that the perk isn't working; it's still definitively making progress on gens slower, which of course helps the killer over the course of the match. Pop in particular shines more as a late-game perk imo, and is enough to win matches by itself in 3v1 three-gen situations. With three survivors in the match, you usually have a loop of one person hooked, one person saving, and one person being chased; survivors only get to do gens if they can save the hooked survivor and get back on a gen before the killer hooks the next survivor, so gen progress is slow. With Pop, the killer will be able to keep the last few gens down and amplify the value of each hook. Survivors likely won't be able to force out the last gen unless the killer commits to a chase they should have dropped. It's also a bit risky as survivors co-opping gens, intelligently using toolboxes, running Repressed Alliance, etc. can make landing useful pops difficult, but the ceiling is match-winningly high and it's strong in most matches.
I like your idea for the end game, but I think it might require some additional tweaks to make sense. A first concern I have is that this would make keys extremely weak as items; if they're only useful for the last survivor in the EGC and they're guaranteed to spawn in chests anyway, it probably doesn't make sense to bring one into the match at all. Given their rarity, you'd think keys should be roughly as strong as items like Rainbow Maps, Utility Flashlights, and Ranger Medkits, but these would all be more worthwhile to bring than keys with this change. One way to get around this would be to remove keys as Bloodweb items altogether and only let them spawn in chests. Another would be to decrease their rarity to better align with their decrease in utility. Finally, their add-ons could be buffed or keys could be given some other innate effect to make them a bit stronger before the EGC.
The other piece I don't love is giving the killer a notification when the gate hits the second light phase. Especially against killers like Blight that can already rapidly traverse between exit gates, that would make it extremely difficult for lone survivors to escape through the exit gate. I think the lights and loud beeping are useful enough as indicators that a survivor has been working on a door. I don't see the killer ever patrolling chests unless they're right near the gates or the killer is running Whispers, because it'd already be so hard for a survivor to find the chest with the key and the closed hatch just during the EGC that the killer would probably be better off just defending the gates. One way to encourage survivors to try for the hatch might be to show the survivor chest auras and to show the killer the hatch aura, so that it's more feasible for survivors to find the key while also giving the killer a chance to defend the hatch a bit and drive the survivor away from it in a chase.
I don't have any great ideas myself for the endgame (I just want them to put more effort into optimization and polish before they mess with things lol) but it'd be fun to have some changes in the future!
again you make alot of valid points and explain them well, this time i actually dont have any arguments against it and can just about 100% agree with what you said on each subject.
Deadhard and UB: the inconsistency of deadhard and the reliance on you baiting a killer to swing and successfully timing the dodge does make the perk harder to use and i would say at this point that would even be its drawback, it isnt a 100% free escape perk since a killer can easily bait it given opportunity and can just wait the dodge out in a chase aswell while gaining bloodlust, i say the weakness against killers who bring exposed is more like a counter than a drawback since the perk can still be used if the arent able to get the exposed status effect off on the survivor I.E. revealing Ghost face, Myers running out of tier 3, ETC. UB is only useful if survivors are left on the ground for extended periods of time meaning that it requires the right situation for the killer to need to risk the hook state for pressure, (although having a person get up next to an almost finished gen when you had no gen defense is annoying as hell) The only part about this that i would say needs balancing is the base recovery percentage since you can 95% your recovery and get instantly picked up without any perks, in my opinion it should be 50% base and 95% with UB after the already getting up once. but overall im not trying to argue your points just more of the way i view these perks after seeing them with your argument in mind.
Pop: this perk is definitely useful and you are correct that the killer gets a great amount of value for using it but it just seems even with the perks strong attribute in the beginning of the match or as long as 4 survivors are alive this perk doesn't make as much of a difference since the amount of survivors working on gens is still significant to the amount they need to actually finish compared to the amount of hooks you need to get to win. i do mostly play the game off of the base that survivors objectives is to survive and escape the killer while the killers objective is to kill all 4 survivors meaning that yes the killer should be able to get a 4k it just shouldn't be easy, and it never is and thats ok. my point being that i guess the issue isnt the perk but the amount of objective survivors need to complete to escape vs the amount of objectives the killer needs to complete to get all 4 kills ( 5 gens, 5 optional totems, and 1 exit gate vs 12 hooks, and 1 hatch). i dont want to be the guy that complains about gen speed but it definitely goes way to fast if your going to play the way the devs want you and not force a survivor out early (aka get 3 hooks on 1 survivor as fast as possible so basically tunneling or camping, and no i dont condone either). being forced to play a certain way and being put against massively more difficult odds because of it make the game alot harder since killers cant actually 1v4 very easily but start gain the pressure they need when its 1v3 (whether a survivor is on hook or dead just as long as only 3 are alive and working). and if gen times arent an issue maybe its the amount of gens that they do instead, im really lost on how to fix it because holding m1 for longer than 80 seconds would be boring and annoying as hell but also impossible late game so maybe a increase of gens is right but idk.
The end game idea is definitely rough and requires alot more thought put into it like the balancing of having mobility killers, and stealth killers (cause the terror radius idea), and killers like the twins who can basically watch both exit gates and travel the map at the same time. but the key part is definitely another problem since it does reduce their value as an item alot so i agree that maybe upgrading their addons to be stronger but the item only findable in trial aswell to get may be the route that this idea would need to take. But either way its going to be way to difficult to balance it out for all the killers since their abilities and strengths vary massively.
my only hope at the moment is for the weaker killers who dont get the same love and attention as the stronger killers get their much needed buffs or re works to bring them into the game to be enjoyed without the added frustration like their current forms (I.E. wraith, pig, clown, demo, and Myers). after changes like that then i would be looking for a re work on the generator mechanic to make it a bit less boring for survivor and to help it not be finished so quickly. if theres anything ive said that you agree or disagree with let me know, if you have any more ideas on the EGC or the ways gens could be re worked to be fun for both sides ( i hate sitting there for 80 seconds pressing space bar occasionally so i do mean a way to make it fun for survivor too) or if you would keep it the same then i would love to see those ideas Aswell.
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@Kolonite said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1839075#Comment_1839075
Also, killers have a 65% killer rate in red ranks. There’s some math for you bb
Yeah again no basis on what you've argued so your post kinda just blends in with the rest who give no value to what they say. Just blurring out what perks do and their general advantage without listing anything else like chase times, gen times, meta perks, god loops, and God pallets and other aspects of base gameplay just shows that your argument is shallow with no real thought put into it. And I dont know what post you read but yes I do provide math on one of them and yes survivors get 16 perks to the killers 4 thank you for giving me another piece of what I said that you didn't attempt to try and argue against. And you are right I'm not exactly new to the forums but have just started posting but I still don't see the point in basing what I said on whether the majority believe it, just because someone doesn't believe something doesn't mean they are right or wrong its called an opinion. And the %65 kill rate means an average of a 2k which is a black pip on the killer if they have a Decently paced game or a de pip otherwise. You've chosen keyboard warrior so im gonna move on to other post that atleast carry a good argument. Best of luck to your bait
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@Kolonite said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1838987#Comment_1838987
Also just gonna point out your post as 75 replies and over 600 views, but only 5 upvotes. These forums are fairly killer sided. I think that’s evidence enough that you’re wrong and a majority don’t agree with you lol
I dont need to see your steam profile i already stated that I could be wrong and it doesn't matter, also I'm not here to try and prove my rank to you either this is supposed to be a discussion not a contest. I've gone into alot of the so called meta perks that both survivors and killers have with others and you still haven't provided evidence to what you say its just the garentee of "dude trust me". Killer viability is obvious just by playing them and every match is always going to change the consistency of their strengths but once again you still provide very little to defend what you have said. Already agreed on map pressure and I honestly don't care how many people upvote my original post and what you said about the community being killer sided after kinda contradicts itself but I bet you know who sides with what aswell.
I'm not trying to get in another key board fight with another forum warrior so il just say this, provide evidence to your arguments in the form of facts, math, and statistics and I will gladly go through it with you to come to a hopefully like minded conclusion. If you want to keep being a keyboard warrior on the other hand then I dont have any interest in participating and wish you the best of luck
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@valvarez4 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1838927#Comment_1838927
And I can imagine your skill as killer too
good one, really got me there
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@Kolonite said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1838927#Comment_1838927
Lmao I’m rank 1 and have 300hrs. The killer is 100% 4 times as strong as 1 survivor. If you get chased for 5 gens it’s not because the game is unbalanced. I promise. Most of the time by the time the game is a 3v1 you’ll have at least one other person on death hook if you’re play optimally. I.E only bothering to hook 1-2 survivors and slugging the other two when you need to. Killers have absolutely nutty perks. STBFL, Enduring, Spirit Fury, and other perks that jump up in power and go down depending on the killer and their power. Ruin and Undying give gen slow down and force survivors to focus on a second objective. Pop and corrupt are amazing on every killer. You’re going to hook people and you’ll really only ever need 8ish pops because by the time you’re getting the rest people are dying. Infectious fright is amazingly reliable. Thrilling is also amazing. Better than BBQ if it didn’t have the bp bonus. Btw I almost exclusively played Myers (one of the weakest killers in the game) and Ghostface all the way up to rank 1. If you’re at least halfway good at the game you should be dominating in the 1v1 with a majority of killers. Even clown is amazing in the 1v1. The issue with the game is map pressure. Not the killer being weaker than each individual survivor. Because they aren’t.
i dont fully believe the rank 1 killer part but that doesnt mean im right, ok then if you are rank 1 and play the game at high rank then you should know how strong survivors get, im not going to get into detail on that since ive had that discussion plenty of times in this thread and i invite you to read them if you havent already. and yes if you dedicate to a chase and make that many mistakes then you deserve what you get for not spreading pressure. the perks ive already done a breakdown on some but you have a huge lack of anything survivor related added into your argument so i ask you to try and look at stuff with both sides in perspective. also just because you say your a killer main doesnt mean that your points are irrefutable. i disagree that all killers are viable in high rank since many heavily depend on strong add on and perks to have the same chance as some mid tier killers I.E. wraith, pig, demo. map pressure is a issue so i agree there but once again you dont throw how much survivors have at their disposal in and out of chase. again ive already been through 2 discussions that went to way too large of lengths going into the gritty details so i wont go into any major detail unless its a direct response to something you say
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@Kolonite said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1838907#Comment_1838907
Look up power role. Even if we went by your definition... The killer would already be the power role as if dominates in a 1v1. Honestly it’s basically game over when the game becomes a 3v1 tbh. The killer should be as powerful as the sum of the opposite team. As in 4 survivors = 1 killer. Not more.
yeah i dont think you understand what im saying, and i go as far to even say you also newer to the game or just stuck in lower ranks. the difference between killer and survivors start to show when survivors know how to use their advantages and abuse them, not to mention the addition of gameplay mechanics that punish killers for doing their objective. yes asymmetrical means the the killer is 4 times as strong as the survivors but this isnt fully the case with DBD, survivors have plenty at their disposal to use against the killer and with perks that offer even more opportunity while the killer only has their power and the basic attack which can be buffed by perks. this is ok so far but alot of these systems get abused by survivors who know how to play the game (figuratively and literally). and saying the game is over when its a 1v3 is also false. i dont know what rank you are or how experienced you are but i can get an idea by what your saying
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@Kolonite said:
This is actually a online game and is supposed to be somewhat competitive (as in either side having a fair shot). So, there should be no power role.
look up asymmetrical games, the game is a 1v4 making the person alone have the same power as the group wouldn't be "fair". just look up what kind of games these are because DBD is one of them.
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@honestyoverbias said:
The killer moves faster than survivors, cannot be harmed, has a multitude of perks and add ons that can track survivors throughout the game and has powers that will always replenish as opposed to survivors items that deplete. The killer already has more power than any single survivor. Survivors that make killers feel like the killer is underpowered are players that have honed their skill and the same can be said of killers who are more experienced than survivors. It is the matchmaking system that makes the game feel unbalanced and it does indeed need work. If you feel you are underpowered in either role it is because you are not honing your skill enough, although I will say you need more skill and experience to escape as survivor than to hook as killer. This is coming from a killer main btw, I don’t feel like I’ve ever been properly challenged as a killer, even without using hex perks.
what rank are you?, im not trying to be rude but theres alot off about this post. and no the matchmaking isnt the only issue its that most killers have skill caps to their ability while survivors dont. the only 2 killers who dont suffer from that cap are spirit and nurse (2 survivor hated killers). mmr is something to be considered but this is a asymmetrical game, thats means its supposed to be a strong character the "power role" vs the weaker characters the "weaker role". the idea behind these games is that the power role is 4 times as strong as the weaker roles to make up for the difference in numbers, and the weaker role needs to use their numbers to their advantage. the killer is faster because survivors have obstacles to put in the killers way to gain the advantage, and the survivors cannot harm the killer because thats not their objective its to complete generators on the map. 5 completed generators means an escape and for killers its 12 hooks, if you have any experience in this game for more than a month and past the lower ranks then you would start to see the issues in balance BDB has. this isnt a nudge at you but is instead more of a general perspective of having played the game for 5 years and being present at all of the changes and additions the developers put into the game.
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@Damarus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1838509#Comment_1838509
So, you clearly cannot read through sarcasm, and you appear to be a tiny little kid. The amount of baseless assumptions I see in your posts is just baffling, the typical killer main who thinks so highly of himself. Of course I never got to red ranks, right? Cause you know me so well. Stop behaving like a child, if you can. Or, you know, go on and keep bragging about stuff that you are SUPPOSEDLY able to do in a video-game (even though you are crying about the hatch, so I doubt that). I mean, your parents are proud of you when you tell them that you had a good game, right? I don't see a reason to keep going with this argument, as I feel you wouldn't understand even if I posted letter by letter. Some people are just like that, I guess. Last post, try to follow me, as I can't really draw it for you. You ready? I'll go slowly.
The RNG part in the hatch is not only where it will spawn, but also who will get it first. A killer may have already found it before the survivors do, before it even opens for the last survivor. At that point, especially if the killer is a fast moving one, a survivor will have very narrow chances of escaping. And I am talking from a general perspective, I never really need the hatch, at least when my teammates are half decent. And I lose, whatever, I'll move onto the next game. I don't need to survive every game, nor will I cry because a survivor got the hatch boo-hoo (most of the time I can't even be bothered slugging, unless the survs were toxic).
Going too fast? Take your time, the post isn't moving.
- About SpinEchill (can't understand how you keep missing the E), you literally wrote what I just said. It warns you when the killer is coming, which by itself means he is looking in your direction. Or do you generally chase survivors while walking backwards? Who knows, maybe you use Slinger's power to try and shoot your feet.
- Lithe: I already explained how the speed boost you get with any of the three exhaustion perks that work that way is just ridiculous. It is the same speed as you get when the killer hits you, which has never been enough to lose the killer or to avoid the tunneling, unless the killer is so bad he can't look around after the hit and loses track of you. But that is a mistake on the killer's part, not a well-played thing from a survivor. There is a reason almost 99% of the players favor Dead Hard, you know? Or don't you? Oh, and also, it takes a full minute of NOT running to have exhaustion perks, that aren't Dead Hard, available again. Not really a small amount of time, especially if you are still getting chased. Unless you walk while the killer is in front of you, anyway.
- Bloodwarden: Someone doesn't know that he can open exit gates as a killer, it seems, as you can just down a survivor and open the exit gate before hooking them? Or you know, but you never had the chance to try to make use of the perk, since survivors escape easily when you are the killer? Is that why you cry about the hatch? Oh, I have an idea, let's make it so exit gates need 10 gens to be opened, give gens double the amount of time to get repaired and have it so, if and when all 10 gens are repaired, exit gates don't even spawn. I'll give you a simple suggestion: find a survivor, down them, open the exit gate, hook them. And before you say anything that isn't worthwhile, if they managed to get both exit gates at 99, that is on you, it means you did not apply enough pressure, or none at all.
- SBTFL: At least you start to have some proper reasoning here, but still. You forget to mention how you keep the stacks you had forever, after the obsession dies. And again, killers who use it most will have a way to kill the obsession without losing stacks. If, on the other hand, you refuse to hit the obsession, negating a free hit, just because of that perk, then it's you being stupid. As much as survivors with Object of Obsession WANT you to see and chase them, giving them the advantage if you choose to commit to them, you are doing the same thing by not hitting the obsession. It's the difference between stupid and strategical choices, between experienced players and casuals who can just work with what they see on the screen, with no ability whatsoever of thinking ahead.
- Not gonna say anything more on Ruin or Devour Hope, as you clearly never even knew of the times when totems were bugged on many maps, which lead to them not being cleansable at all. And someone didn't even bother to notice that devs are trying to have totems more hidden than they were, but you need to be playing both sides to know that. so I can understand.
- Dying Light: Oh wow, the obession can unhook and heal somewhat faster, while ALL survivors will take longer to do gens because of a single perk that works with hooks. Nah, let's move on to another perk, that's just too difficult. What kind of reasoning is that? Do you want to have PGTW remove 100% of gen progression, and have the perk active by just looking at a gen for 2 seconds, instead of hooking?
Those walls WERE unblocked, that is they key word, my not intelligent non- friend. They WERE unblocked, now they are not. Which means that the ability to grant survivors another escape route or to negate it falls under the killer's possibilities. As much as people use Corrupt Intervention to slow the game down, having one less perk after it expires, having doors blocked means survivors won't have a way of escaping through them. And having destroyable walls to cut the time it takes to catch a survivor in the shack, as in Glenvale, means you are taking away the best loop and pallet survivors have.
This is the end of the discussion for me, write all the "know-it-all" comments you like, I'm not gonna bother reading them again, nor provide you with unnecessary and undeserved attention. Have a good day, and try not to cry too much because you can't kill survivors, aye? Oh, and about that, in F13 you can play against bots who almost don't move, give that a try, it might suit you better. Adios.
struck a nerve did i?, thats ok i guess i really had you fuming at the keyboard. oh and sorry about the spelling mistakes i dont really care to go back and fix auto correct when typing on my phone. since you definitely wont be coming back il keep it short and simple since you get angry when im not. p.s. dont try to pass what you said as sarcasm to make yourself seem the bigger man thats just pathetic.
lets start and end this hatch business shall we, finding the hatch isnt RNG, do you know what RNG stands for? no? ok here ya go "Random number generator", i guess it is RNG for ya if your playing against bots but not its called luck and being attentive. with everything you have said i doubt that you even get to the hatch stage of the match, killer or survivor. and you may not cry about it there but you sure did here.
oh before this i just wanted to say that you missed alot of other things i said like the whole reduced perks debacle but dont worry im happy knowing you couldn't find a way to embarrass yourself on that one
"spin"chill: i love the new name but you dont argue my point so thanks. also pointing out spelling mistakes is a bold move for you to make after that first post
Lithe: just because people take deadhard more doesnt mean its bad. if you cant use this perk to gain a new postition or break line of sight to hide then dont bother with it since your brown rank anyway (this does mean you)
Bloodwarden: you gonna open the gate for 30 seconds of time?, are you kidding me?, yeah i bet you would
STBFL: just gonna ignore ds is a perk that you see 9 times out of 10 in survivors eh? i know you use it so dont act like you dont know what happens when you get your free shoulder stab. but yeah whatever else you said about casuals i dont care
Ruin and devour: bringing up a bug and a buff huh, really ran out of stuff to use here. and yes totems are easy to find but you might want to take a map since you struggle so much
Dying light: il do some math so you might want to turn on the brain real quick, dying light gives a meager 3% penalty with each token only gaining this advantage after hooking a survivor and requires you to keep the obsession alive. the obsession gets 33% to healing and unhooking. but hey its a great perk and all the top tier killers take it right?, please stop trying to make this perk seem stronger than it is i dont know how else to say it.
you agree that these doorways where unblocked, and that it gives survivor advantage..... jeez man it hurts to see you stumble, also you forget to mention almost all of these doors have a window next to them for the survivor to hop through like i mentioned before but dont worry i know you have a hard time reading. the 1 example of a loop breaking wall damn thats op, maybe try to go to a different loop instead of the easy shack one sorry you cant use it for 2 gens now, oh wait thats just you complaining because a singular shack has that addition and your ape brain doesnt like it.
"end of discussion" cool i didnt like "discussing" with you since being a steel wall for survivors is all you wanted to do, didnt read the original post did ya?. and dont worry no hard feelings i just wish it didnt end up with a oh so bad forum fight that got you so angry you thought id care if you didnt respond. either way if you want to come back and use actual facts for your arguments instead of baseless opinon then i would be more than happy to go through it a bit more civil this time and maybe we could end up seeing eye to eye. and if you dont then goodluck in brown rank im rooting for ya.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1838033#Comment_1838033
Sure thing! This is getting long, so bear with me :D
1) The strongest survivor perks have drawbacks as well imo, but the perks are just strong enough to outweigh them. Dead Hard requires you to be injured to use and it's very inconsistent; you'll often be exhausted on the ground but still take a hit, for example, and sometimes the exhausted status effect popping up is enough to freeze the game for a half second and send you careening into a wall. Unbreakable requires you to be slugged to use, and it's also not very useful if you have teammates in the area (especially with new WGLF). Spine Chill can be countered by approaching survivors with your camera at an angle. Alert is pretty terrible against stealth killers; you know something was broken, but you don't know what or where. Adrenaline requires you to power all the gens or for the killer to close the hatch, meaning it's a wasted perk slot in a good chunk of matches. DS requires the killer to pick you up less than 60 seconds after being hooked, and while I think it does need a nerf because it can be used too offensively, it's generally easy enough for the killer to avoid if they make a point to not chase the person who just got unhooked (or if they just slug them). You get the idea - I don't think there's a perk in the game that's always going to be good in every match; there are counters and downsides to all of them.
As for which killer perks are strong compared to survivor ones, I'd consider most of them to be handily stronger than comparable survivor ones. It's hard to compare perk strength directly because they have very different effects, but one way to compare them is to look at things from a time perspective (i.e. seconds saved / lost by your opponent because you ran a given perk):
Let's imagine a killer slugs a survivor and they happen to have Unbreakable up. Let's imagine that the downed survivor's nearest teammate is 40m away, for mathematical convenience, and that the nearest generator to where they got slugged was 20m away. With Unbreakable, your 35% faster recovery gets you off the ground roughly 8 seconds faster. It also saves your teammate from having to run a combined 60m to tap you up, which saves another 15-16 seconds that they otherwise would have been spending on generators. So, all in, Unbreakable would have saved you about 25 seconds in this situation. Again, though, this is assuming 1) you're able to coordinate with your teammate so that they stay on their gen instead of coming to pick you up, and 2) that the killer slugs you in the first place. In many matches Unbreakable is just a dead perk slot. There's sometimes some wasted time between when a killer slugs a survivor and when they start pressuring the next survivor, though, which would effectively add to the time wasting for Unbreakable, so in the absolute best case scenario it might be even a bit better. On average it would save much less than 25 seconds, though.
Compare this to Pop, which removes 20 seconds of repair time from a generator with each use, with a maximum of 11 useful uses (since the 12th would be after the last survivor is sacrificed). There are additional benefits from the extra time the generator spends regressing due to Pop as well, and these can be substantial over the course of the match. Pop can sometimes even force survivors to outright abandon gens and let them regress down to nothing, for example, especially if a killer is able to land multiple pops in a row on a gen that was most of the way completed. That time is hard to quantify, but even if we ignore it, it's still entirely feasible for a killer to land 5 pops in a match and therefore to cancel out the time saved by four successful Unbreakables.
As another example, let's compare Thanatophobia and Prove Thyself - a gen slowdown perk vs. a gen speedup perk. To make life easy, let's imagine the killer averages 2 stacks of Thanat throughout the time survivors spend on gens, and that the killer never kicks or otherwise regresses a gen. For each gen, then, there's a 10% speed reduction penalty. This adds about 9 seconds per generator, so 45 seconds total. Let's imagine survivors cleanse 3 totems as well during the match. This wastes about another 5 seconds, so let's say 50 seconds of time wasting total. This is of course ignoring the benefit of any additional regression killers would get by preventing gens from popping as early, but still, it's a start. Now, for Prove Thyself, let's imagine that three of the four survivors are running it so that the effect is always active whenever multiple survivors are on a gen. Let's also assume that the killer is not running any gen slowdown perks and never regresses any gens, just for simplicity. Now let's imagine they co-op the equivalent of three of the five generators. Each co-op'd generator saves you 6.14 seconds for 2 survivors, so overall that saves you 37 seconds. Again, my math is rough, but the 4:1 proportion holds really well here; 1 killer perk saves 50 seconds, and 3 survivor perks save 37. If you add another 37/3 seconds and bump it up to four survivor perks, you get 1 killer perk and 4 survivor perks being worth 50 seconds.
Again, roughness abounds, but I hope this helps get my point across. Killer perks are usually substantially stronger than similar-tier survivor perks, and they're often as strong as the same survivor perk being run on all four survivors.
2) 100% agreed. I hope Behaviour just keeps an eye on map-specific kill rates and tweaks the most killer-sided and survivor-sided maps to bring them back towards the middle.
3) I'd be open to suggestions for a different end game mechanic besides the hatch, even if I think it's an alright mechanic. There are definitely others out there that don't like the hatch (especially with keys in their current state), so switching things up could be good.
with a well explained argument like that i gotta say you have got me convinced on alot of things, but some others i do feel fall a little out of line when you bring the 1 vs 4 aspect into play. you have provided sound math that i feel i may not be able to live up to such dedication on the subjects but i will use facts that you can see in the gameplay itself. your correct on survivor perks having drawbacks and some of them having even bigger requirements to meet than most are comfortable with.
- Deadhard: you honestly have me thinking the perk requires more than i thought it did before and arguing against that would make my points based on a bias and not actual facts. i see the abuse of this perk or its real strengths come from the knowledge of how and when to use it (mix that into a good survivors looping skills and pallet distances on most maps with windows being present makes for a more volatile mix). players are forced to keep themselves injured in order to use the perk, the way i view this perks requirement isnt a downside but more as a second chance for making a mistake mid chase and avoiding being downed if used correctly. the latency issues or stability issues posing as a downside to the perk are understandable since even though they arent intended they are still very present (i swear the amount of times ive gone down exhausted is infuriating). my only issue with this perk is its ability to draw out chases to ridiculous lengths forcing the killer to either leave the survivors who can then heal or do gens or the killer continues the chase hoping to make worth the time already lost, with 4 survivors being able to take the same perk it can end up with the killer getting 3 or 4 hooks by the time the gens are finished if at least 2 survivors play to doing gens while these chases are present. i dont view being injured as a downside since its something the killer is forced to do as a way of downing the survivors unless they are exposed. the only real way of making that an actual downside instead of a 2nd chance would be to make the survivor stay injured for a certain amount of time before being ale to use it.
- Unbreakable: this perks real use is stopping killers from slugging survivors since it is to be honest a frustrating thing to have happen to you, the problem comes in when you face coordinated teams of survivors which doesn't always need to even be a swf if they are good enough. slugging is sadly one of the only ways to prevent gens from popping at ridiculous speeds with or without gen defense perks and to gain pressure on the map to slow down progression into the killers grasp, facing against good survivors or teams can be frustrating because they tend to use every part of their advantage against you, and hooking a survivor is almost always not enough to gain pressure against these teams which causes the killer to seek out other survivors and build the pressure by forcing less time on gens. i agree this perk wouldn't be an issue but only if slugging stopped being a necessary tactic to gain control of a match and gen times where less of a threat.
- Pop goes the weasel: this perk is definitely a strong one of the bunch and it can definitely be seen as stronger than some of the meta survivor perks but i still do think its requirement can again be an issue to its strength. to use the perk as you said it requires a hook which is only possible about 10 or 11 times because after that its end, the perk removes 25% of a gens progression and then regresses the gen normally (0.25% of a single survivors gen speed) and cant be reapplied until after the gens regression has been halted. lets put a scenario into perspective, lets say a killer chases 2 survivors off of a gen at 50% and then follows 1 and the other returns ( we will ignore the fact there are 2 other survivors in the match) the killer needs to chase and down the survivor requiring 2 hits and a hook to use his perk again on that generator. in chase the killer will need to deal with looping, windows (able to be used 3 times), and pallets to get a hit, a single loop can last 15 seconds on average (we are talking decent survivor skills) and pallets can extend that count to double. so lets say that the killer gets looped for 15 seconds gets a pallet dropped on them and then gets a hit in at the 25 seconds causing a 3 second cooldown for the killer and letting the survivor reposition with the haste affect, the killer once again gets looped for 15 seconds but misses the hit due to deadhard and the survivor gets to loop another 15 with the pallet drop and finally after all that the killer gets their down, they walk to a hook and start their merry way back to the gen, the total estimated time spent is 77.5 seconds (2 3 second hit cd, 3 15 second loop time, 10 second catch up time, and 1.5 seconds missed attack because of dead hard). this entire time the 2nd survivor is working on the generator from 25% after the pop which is about 60 seconds to complete without any great skill check completions, this means the 2nd survivor completes the generator 17.5 seconds before the killer completes his chase (this is excluding the time it takes to pick up the survivor and walk to the hook) even if the killer didnt have to deal with deadhard that added an extra 15 seconds the generator would have still popped before the killer even gets to the hook to get the perk once more, through the other 2 survivors in on a single gen (47.6 seconds to complete) and they would already be 17.7 seconds from completing the third generator). now i know that chase times arent always going to be that long and that survivors arent always going to be rushing the gens but this situation is possible in the game currently and is a regular occurance in higher rank. in total the killer completes 1 out of 12 hooks and the survivors complete 2.7 of 5 gens basically 8.3% of the killers objective and 54% of the survivors if my math is correct.
- Thanatophobia: i promise not to take that long on this one but bear with me, the effect of thanatophobia is 5% regression on all the good stuff for survivors per stack with a maximum of 20% overall or 16 seconds with one survivor on a gen or 9.4 seconds extra on a gen with 2. if we add this math into the past situation with the deadhard and max stacks the first gen time would end up being 76 seconds (because of the 25% left on the gen after pop) still being 1.5 seconds shorter than the chase and the 2nd gens time with 2 survivors would end up being 56.46 seconds making the 3rd gen only 35 seconds left out of 56.46 with the added time from thanatophobia.
i dont see the need to go into any other survivor perks to added into the mix to make this math any longer, you make a good case but certain areas such as chases and skill which both are obviously impossible to really determine make the strengths of some of these perks fall flat on their faces compared to the consistent use of perks that over shadow them in practice that survivors tend to take. as for the maps im glad we see eye to eye in that maps should definitely be fair for either side, as for an end game alternative this has been the rough idea i have come up with.
after the 3rd survivor is sacrificed the EGC is started and the exit gates power, the hatch will spawn in the trial area closed but it can be opened by a key. the key can be either brought in or found in chest through the trial if neither of those happen then a key should spawn in one of the already opened chests but will re shut it after doing so. the survivor either can search for the key while the killer searches or guards the gates but they have limited time to get the key and find the hatch afterward. at endgame collapse the killer can patrol the gates or wander looking for survivors, if the killer leaves the gates they will get a notification if the gate reaches the 2nd light stage as long as its outside terror radius, if they choose to patrol they can also shut chest to spoof the survivor and if one of these closed chest is opened it gives the killer a notification. i feel that this could possible be a more interactive and fair end game for both sides but i definitely would like a 2nd opinion of it.
it would be great if you can give feedback on anything i said and even correct me where im wrong on any other the points if there is something you disagree with i would be more than happy to see why, as for the end game thing feedback on that would definitely be appreciated and any way to add to it to make it more balanced would also be nice to hear, if you had any ideas i would also love to see the way you would re work the end game.
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@Damarus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1837416#Comment_1837416
I am biased for survivors, ok. Ah man. So I "talk about RNG and blame a killer for using their advantage", which you make look like a completely ok thing, yet survivors getting the hatch is not RNG nor is it considered as "exploiting their advantage". Who's biased now, I wonder?
What you were saying was that survivors, be them solo or SWF, should not have access to 4 perks each. That looks like killing solo survivor's purpose to me, plain and simple. Anyway, about listed perks:
- Spine Chill is just a warning, which is pretty much useless if the killer is not a stealth one. So that makes that aspect of it situational. Then you have increased vault speed, which is the actual important part, but that is nowhere near unbearable.
- Lithe only works with windows, or with pallets killers are stupid enough not to destroy. If you don't find a window, you don't make use of it. Which, again, can make it situational. Not only that, but the speed boost you get is not such a big deal, at all. The killer will easily catch up, unless he bangs his head into a wall.
- Blood Warden is not situational, but it depends on the killer's ability to hook survivors during EGC. It is an endgame perk.
- STBFL situational/niche? Really? The ability to recover faster from hits and being able to hit again in a shorter time is niche? That is powerful, especially on some killers who can make the best use out of it, while also negating stacks losses.
- Ruin. Do we even need to talk about how a perk that is in pretty much EVERY match is not situational nor niche? Yes, it can be broken at the start of the match. No, it won't matter, since 90% of players pair it with Undying.
- Devour Hope. Most of the time, you'll get to enough stacks before the survivors can even realize you have this perk, Which means, you'll make use of it. Sure, it can go down at the start of the match, but as you said "if RNG makes it so survivors find it early, can you blame them for exploiting their advantage?".
- Dying Light. A perk that literally only tasks you with hooking survivors, in order for it to slow gens, can be deemed as niche or situational? Come on man, be serious. The game is DbD, not the forums.
- PWYF. You'll become faster for losing the obsessions, which you can do by simply starting a chase, turning around. Rinse and repeat, and you have 3-4 stacks. If you do that with killers like Wraith or stealth ones, it becomes even easier. Put that on Leatherface and there is almost no getting way from him. Infinite EW Myers? You got that.
The addition of breakable walls doesn't only make killers end some loops easily, but those walls, being destructible by the killer alone, become somewhat strategical. If you never break the school walls in Springfield, for instance, survivors have very narrow escape chances.
I guess this is all, enough said. Time to get serious again, shall we?
You atleast admit your bias but still didn't make an attempt to be unbiased or civil so let's go through your feedble attempts to argue what I said.
So your first point is the hatch isn't RNG?, damn you really needed something to come up with to argue for it i guess. Hatch is not RNG, this is because there is a 100% chance for it to spawn every match given the match gets to that stage, if you think the fact its spawn is random makes it a RNG mechanic then you should start paying attention more in matches and maybe you could get it more often. The hatch is an easy escape if you know where it is, but if the killer gets to it first the game hands you 3rd chance to escape since you couldn't do the first 2 and let's you unlock the exit gates. But I bet that you still have trouble finding those on your own too.
I never said to remove perks from survivors or even lower the amount they have, you just struggled to read or understand what I said and thats ok il try to explain it without hurting your brain. Survivor perks offer massive amounts of information, deception, and escape opportunities. Not to mention alot of them hold your hand if you make mistakes. Killer perks offer advantage based off what you do in the match being either a reward for doing something or requiring you to build it up (unlike survivor perks most of the time) and most of the ones people complain about have disadvantages or ways to remove them permanently. I hope that explain it well enough for you to understand without hurting yourself so let's move on
Spinchill: this perk offers information of if the killers direct line of sight is on you and can be used mid chase to outsmart the killer in loops and lose them fast, but that may be to advanced for you.
Lithe: this is an exhaustion perk that let's you gain a considerable amount of speed to either lose a killer or gain a advantageous position to try and lose them once again. The amount of window in maps is extensive and offers alot of areas to use this perk especially at loops and jungle gyms. If you struggle to use the perk don't blame me, best part about it is there's no downside to use it and the perk will be usable again after a small amount of time. But that doesn't matter right?
Bloodwarden: get past green rank (if you even play killer at all) and this perk becomes almost useless, at high rank people 99% gates so that EGC doesn't start before all remaining survivors are safe to exit (dont worry you will get there one day). If survivors open the gate and let someone get down AND hooked then they need to deal with the consequences of their greed for not having already taken the exit and instead going back for the hook, even though the chance the killer has this perk would be extremely low.
STBFL: this perk is strong but inconsistent, reason I say that is because that once your obsession knows you have it they will likely use your hesitancy to hit them to their advantage and let the perk punish you for chosing to hit them anyway. This perk falls in the niche only because it offers alot to only a few killers and remains a quality of life change to others.
Ruin: its a hex perk dude, go do totems once you figure out its in the match thats not hard, oh boo hoo if they have Undying its not as if that means you won't get lucky on getting that totem first go anyway. The perk remains inconsistent because it can be removed early game (unlike deadhard, DS, UB, BT, Object of obsession, etc.) unless the survivors are bad or the killer gets lucky with Undying. Gen defense perks are just about a requirement to have a chance against good survivors but you wouldn't know that would you?.
Devour hope: oh boy another hex perk that can be destroyed immediately because hex spawns are garbage and can even be infont of survivor spawns or gens oh no thats unfair nerf Devour hope guys. Seriously? The advantage it offers you is miniscule until after the survivors will already know you have, but oh boy does a perk that requires a build up and can be removed from the game make all the difference in every match I play right?.
Dying light: this is a joke right? If it isn't just take what I said about hexs from above, and add in a buff to the the obsessions
PWYF: another perk that is Niche because although it offers a benefit it ONCE AGAIN comes with a downside (I dont need to redo the amount of survivor perks that offer more with no reprocession right?). Its a build up that you lose with each and every hit, big sad that it gives killer a speed boost for one hit and takes a stack from them, not to mention its 2 hits to down a survivor and missed attacks remove stacks (but lets act like you dont bring deadhard). I'm not going to go on because I would hope you see where I'm going.
Nice job showing the 1 of 2 examples in dbd that breakable walls burden survivors instead of the killers, the addition of these walls offers no tactical advantage 95% of the time since they exist in doorways that once where once again UNBLOCKED before, but thats tactics right? Yeah I didnt think so. Next time atleast try not to sound like you scrambling to make a point out of little to no fact.
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@TheStabbiNAngeL said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1838081#Comment_1838081
Listen I'm not sure where you interpreted that, I'm being biase.Trust me I'm not happy about any of the recent changes to Pyramid Head or Mori's.I don't play in this manner regardless because it's boring, so none of this really effects me as a killer,But what does effect me is getting killer's changed a certain way so they can exploit ,whatever change the killer's had.
It doesn't make you less skilled because, now you can't use a nerf killer ,it's you're groove got changed so now you got to adapted over again.
I thought you were biased because of the mention of keeping killers weaker than survivors, but il give you the benefit of the doubt.
Id like to know your thoughts on the points I've listed to yours but for the new one I agree that killers shouldn't be "nerfed" into abusing their power like the case with Pyramid head, survivors complained that his power was to strong for mind gaming the beam attack and forcing m1's so they added some blockers to his potential of such and made his power easier and more rewarding to use. In the end they made him a more brain dead character by removing mind games and making his power have very little consequences to being used constantly, but if all they did was remove the mind game potential and nerf his ability more so then you wouldnt see him past green rank. so I have a question would you rather take the pre nerf Pyramid head or the new one? And after that what changes would you make to his kit to make it a viable but "fair" killer
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@Killing_Time said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1837361#Comment_1837361
We've seen his much "power" survivors have. Let's not forget, DC penalty was introduced because MASS suicides on certain killers. (Which eventually lead to nerfs)
To be honest most survivors I play against that DC is because they can't bully, the mass dc problem before was because survivors thought spirit was OP and couldn't have easy game against her. On that point though spirit is one of the strongest killers right up there with nurse that survivors have also complained about in mass. The big difference between spirit and nurse compared to the other killers is that they have a very high skill cap ( spirit was definitely alot easier to play than the nurse however making her able to steam role with little time invested ). Survivors DC from anything between losing a chase to being walked to their final hook, that not saying those are the only reason or that all survivors will do such but just trying to point out that DC's shouldn't be considered for a killers power, let alone for all of the different killers
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@TheStabbiNAngeL said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1838012#Comment_1838012
We'll it's like giving a monkey a loaded gun and a banana. If you're really great at survivor then you'll be ableto loop a killer who camps hypothetically. Someone who plays this way will camp anyway so why give them more power to do it,skill caps probably prevent player's like this from ruining games for the larger percentage of the community in which we all get the people who do this we just rotate them,on top of that thiers people who will get good just to stream snipe hard working people on twitch to sometimes have good fun then other's who want do BS the entire game like tunnel you, and camp you ,or whatever.
I complain about outright cheating, lag switching and and whatever survivor's are doing to get killer's "REVIEWED"
Once again skill caps on killers will only encourage the BM behavior, a good survivor can loop but the second they get hooked it would be more worth the killers time to guard it till 2nd state or even a sacrifice. If you want to punish the entire killer community for the BM of some then thats flawed logic, you should encourage players to play fair not push them to play the oppisite, both sides matter in this argument as I stated in the original post try not to be biased. Survivors do toxic stuff to killers but im not using that as a basis for my argument because not all survivors are toxic. Punishing the majority for the actions of the minority of the communitys is going to cause a drop in player base all together and force killers to play even more toxic to have a chance.
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@[Deleted User] said:
1) Killer perks are generally stronger than survivor perks. Regardless, kill rate shows that killers are doing just fine and it only goes up at red rank. If survivor perks give more of a benefit, then, it's clearly needed.
That's not to say perks like DS don't need a nerf, but still.
2) There are killer sided and survivor sided maps in the game. Ironically enough, though, even the most survivor sided maps still have a kill rate of over 50% (50% being the balance BHVR has said they're aiming for).
3) I personally think the hatch is a great mechanic. It makes for a fun little mini game at the end, and it gives survivors another incentive not to DC even if they're getting absolutely stomped. Even with a key, it is relatively uncommon that a single survivor will escape the match through the hatch. Usually you will lose the key due to Franklin's, escape easily and not need to use it, get tunnelled out of the match before hatch even spawns and your teammates don't (or can't) pick up the key, etc. With or without a key, the killer has the advantage in a 1v1 open-hatch situation unless the exit gates are spaced far apart, they have low mobility, and they don't have Whispers or Remember Me.
I would change keys such that the hatch immediately shuts behind the person using the key. Still, I think they're borderline fine and they don't bother me as killer.
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TL;DR Killer is outperforming survivor at the moment. There are unbalanced things still to address on both sides, but stats show that game balance skews towards killer, especially at red rank.
I actually agree with some of what you said but there are some I would like for you to explain a bit better
1. In my original post I Detailed the draw backs to most killers perks especially the stronger one I.E. Ruin, and pop. And also show that survivor perks carry little draw back to them if any at all I.E. deadhard, UB, Head on, Alert, Spin chill. I definitely would like to discuss what killer perks you consider to be strong in comparison to survivor perks, I know that there are META perks on each side I won't deny that my point being is that killer meta perks tend to be fewer and have requirements or draw backs that can render them useless.
2. I have no argument since I do also believe that there are maps that aid the killer a whole lot more than survivor and vice versa I.E. dead dog salon, azoravs, lerys. I think that maps should be reworked to not favor either side but to offer a fair chance to each side, something I think the devs have a hard time doing since it is 100% easier said than done.
3. As a solo only survivor I have used the hatch alot, and it has saved me from losing games with 2 teammates killing themselves on hook, but at the same time I usually don't much care for a victory that's handed to me just because I stumbled upon the right jungle gym. Personally I believe that the last part of the match is generally the most boring and frustrating as killer unless you got lucky enough to close the hatch and have 2 exit gate close together, I understand that this happens but in my experience not enough for the amount of complaints to it. Point being I just don't generally enjoy the hatch on either side since it can be abused by either, I think a better end game should be put in place to replace the hatch
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@TheStabbiNAngeL said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/215544/put-the-power-back-in-power-role
I've been playing for 4 year's and as you can imagine I've had people do just about anything you think in a match,I'm an average survivor and if that's the way killers are for everyone then DBD needs to remain survivor sided as everyone puts it,killer's really should have a skill cap to prevent tunneling and camping TBH.
I'm a bit confused as to why you would want the game to remain unbalanced if you have been playing since 2016 or 17 ( thats considering you play killer not just survivor). I've had plenty of games with all sorts of crazy stuff happening or even being camped or tunneled in the game at the beginning of that match. Putting a skill cap on killers doesn't make it harder for them to Bm you it actually encourages a killer to camp or tunnel to gain pressure, and its already obvious that DS and UB aren't going to stop killers from tunneling or slugging because most post i see like yours still complain about it. There needs to be a different system in place that discourages killers from doing such things that don't end up over reaching into just punishing normal killers for doing their objective and letting survivors make massive amounts of mistakes and recover with little consequences like hook states.
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@Damarus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/215544/put-the-power-back-in-power-role
1A) Of all the survivor perks you mentioned, the only one which COULD make a difference is Head On, and not even during a chase. Plus, to really make a difference with that perk, you would need to be SWF.
1B) PGTW activates whenever you hook, and you have plenty of time to make us of the massive regression it provides. Ruin and Undying, paired with applying pressure, are one of the strongest combo at a killer's disposal, and that is a big time waster for survivors. After that, there are many other useful perks killers can use: PWYF, STBFL, Make Your Choice, Devour Hope, Blood Warden, Remember Me, Brutal Strenght, Agitation, Dying Light, Thanatophobia, Infectious Fright. Not to mention the fact that many perks, like BBQ and Nurse's Calling make the work YOU should be doing for you. Not all perks are supposed to be equally strong on every single killer. That adds some PRECIOUS variety to the game. (Have you ever played Rainbow Six? Every match the ops picked and banned are always the same, which makes it kinda tedious).
I don't remember getting a single powerful survivor perk since Zarina's "For The People". And even then, it has a huge drawback. As for more recent perks, like Cheryl's, they are highly situational. What you are proposing is, in practice, to completely kill solo survivors' experience. The only thing that could be done would be to limit the amount of equal perks 4 survivors bring into the match, even tho not for every perk. Like no more than 2 UB, for instance, and perhaps show each survivor the perks their companions have equipped, while in lobby.
2) A point with almost no mistakes, finally. Why almost? What you said is true about some maps (even though breaking walls is neither a time waster nor something that does not reward you, but whatever). You forgot to add that there are, and there were, maps that were a death sentence for survivors, one being Yamaoka's Estate, for instance. On some maps, the amount of pallets is just pathetically low, while on some other maps there are many more unsafe pallets then everything else. You want to talk about something, do it thoroughly.
3) Jesus, another post about the hatch. How long is this thing going to be like that. Please, please, please, get that into your killer minds, hatch is not a free escape, killers do NOT have to get a 4k every single goddamn game. This is getting ridiculous now.
Now, for off-topic points, should we talk about how often exit gates are close to each other, with a hill in between that the killer can sit on?
Relly, dude. If you want to talk about BALANCE, it means you'll have to consider both sides in the same way. All I see is killer-sided points here. As much as something is true, doesn't mean all the rest is.
I Have to say I dont see that much support in your points but I respect your opinion of mine nonetheless so let me try to see if I can explain some things you thought I explained poorly.
1. I completely disagree with your view on the survivor perks, most of the perks I mentioned I.E. spin chill, and lithe are powerful and constant use perks offering use in escape and information, something that provides a massive advantage ( imagine if killers had a perk that told you if you were looking at a survivor within a certain distance and never shut off ). Alot of the killer perks you mention fall under the "situational" or "Niche" such as blood warden, remember me, and make your choice, and alot of the other perks as I mentioned already have draw backs or even flat out ways to remove them I.E. STBFL, ruin, Devour hope, Dying light, PWYF. I don't want to kill the experience of solo survivors, I dont see how a review of survivor perks for balance would kill their experience, it is instead meant to give the killer a chance to fight teams of good survivors who have almost no difficulty facing the killer with their plethora of perks to escape the killer regardless of how well the killer plays against them I.E. Deadhard,and Lithe.
2. I once again disagree with your view of the breakable walls, half if the walls added in recently are in doorways previously unblocked and requires the killer to either lose distance on the survivor by breaking them or get infinite looped by vaulting the window. Pallets are a resource in maps and should be used with that in mind, just because there aren't many pallets doesn't mean there aren't windows to loop with (also the amount of pallets on each map is random so blame the RNG for that not the maps themselves).
3. i don't play for a 4k every game the point of the hatch subject is that the mechanic is blatantly survivor sided, and even if the killer closes the hatch the survivor still has the exit gates to use which can be opened with very little time at all. Once again you complain about RNG and blame a killer for using their advantage by the map spawning the gates close with a point of elevation, its obvious your biased for survivor. I have once again tried to be as unbiased as I can but you didn't even make an attempt. All I have seen here is survivor sided views but I am open to discussion about the points I have listed but try to keep it civil.
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@Withered8 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1837375#Comment_1837375
Two isn't a win and shouldnt be. It's a draw, so makes sense you would black pip, (I've actually had 1ks which are pips). The ranking and emblem system shoudl definitely be looked at as i do think it punishes you in the wrong areas and rewards you in teh wrong areas as killer. IE: Tunneling two people out of the game and getting 6 hooks will reward you more than 2 hooking everyone
The Issue coming into this is that as a killer it is much more difficult to go through each survivor 1 hook at a time and pressure gens, chase times are way to long with loops and exhaustion perks added into the mix, but killers are forced to play to the "survivor rule book" by the devs with perks like DS and UB. I am in no way condoning tunneling and camping but survivors aren't forced to play any certain way for the killers sake its only one way around. And in the end playing to the way survivors want you to ends with a de pip and the possible harrasment in end game lobby, but if you play the other way around you get dc's and the same harassment in the lobby.
In the current moment the survivors have a better chance of "winning" than the killer, not to mention the amount of gameplay mechanics stacked against the killer to achieve his goal and how much the game punishes them for doing so. If DBD punished survivors for gen rushing it would cause a massive out cry in the survivor community because they are literally doing their objective. But for killers its ok for the game to punish you for doing yours
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@Withered8 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1837343#Comment_1837343
well then you've got the balance wrong. You want killers to win everygame, and that's not how a fair game works.
I Agree that killers shouldn't win 100% of the time, as far as the killing 2 survivors counting as a win for a killer is completely false. In red rank anything under a 3k with a decently paced game is a black pip or less.
To fix that you could re balance the emblem system instead to offer more progression based of that 50% ratio
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@Raz_ said:
yes.. i really think slowly but surely its just a manipulation of people who say that.
Scott jund started that (i think) saying "Using Desicisve strike together with Unbreakable is just a small pp thing"
well lets start with this topic then.
usually im not using meta perks. if Q&Q and headon is a meta perk thats a different stroy.
and since im not using META perks that is what happens.
50 games getting tunneled, hard slugged or just facecamped when the killer knows he doesnt have any meta perks.
killers also love hard tunnel when there is no obsession. so what is your point with "small pp" tell me?
playing freddy with ultra slow down isnt small pp.
playing spirit with stridor and strong addons isnt small pp.
using insta downs with killer is not small pp.
what is this dumb talk with small pp? you tunnel = you deserve to get ds'ed
you hard slug you deserve to get people with unbreakable.
you do both at the same time, you deserve both.
just because you dont immideately pick someone up and wait 60 seconds does that make you not a tunnler? ofc you tunnel, with the difference you wait 60 seconds.
you want emphaty? stop with the smallpp talk to play the victim. first stop with your scummy playstyle and maybe people stop using that "smallpp build"
and do not forget "killers playstyle make these perks META" nobody would use these perk when killers would have a little bit of emphaty.
i played for a year with no meta perks. i had enough mercy for killers.
from now on im a small pp survivor.
As someone who plays killer alot more than survivor i do agree with camping and tunneling being toxic and something that should be punished, but at the same time I have to deal with these perks going off in matches I try to play more towards giving everyone a chance to enjoy the match (aka not tunneling or camping).
These perks are massive game changers and are in my experience rarely ever used for their intended purpose (aka anti tunnel, anti slug). I cant say I dont slug because I do, if a survivor who got off the hook try to be cheeky il down them without a second thought and leave them to avoid DS. And if that survivor was not picked up after my next chase on the hook they go.
Using the perks to counter toxicity as they were intended is fine but I feel their should be a better solution. In my opinion ds should only be active for 1 survivor at a time, any more than that then the perks being abused for its strength and not its purpose, its not my fault if your entire team rushed a hook and I downed someone, hooked them, and then get you within 60 seconds ( happens alot to be honest ).
Besides that I have no issue with people using meta perks to avoid the toxic killers in the game or toxic survivors in the game, but those perks are abused alot more than they should be and a better solution to these problems should be found
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@GannTM said:
So I recently played a survivor match as Meg Thomas at Azarov's Resting Place against a Pyramid Head. I lead him on a chase that lasted about 2 gens, another chase at end game that lasted about 20-30 seconds, repaired a gen and a half, and I ESCAPED the trial. Depsite all that, I ended up DEPIPPING. What is this emblem system y'all made BHVR? Obviously that sh*t needs work.
If the game was more balanced the game would have lasted longer offering more blood points to both survivors and the killer, game is survivor sided and its hurts both sides equally. Survivors suffer from loss of points and a generally boring experience with how easy it gets with perks or swf ( especially if combined ).
If you want to get more points call for a more balanced game so both sides earn points and actually enjoy playing the game.
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@Raz_ said:
i keep listening and reading to people saying this game is completely survivor sided now tell me please why is this game sooo survivor sided, but before you telling me how survivor sided this game is i wanna share something with you.
1.Devs made Ranking way easier then before so ranks doesnt matter and you get atleast 2 people who shouldnt be even close to red ranks means the devs made it easier for killers so they dont have a hard time anymore.
2.Dedicated servers, most killers have such a high latency that they will get undeserved hits on you 90% of the time.
3.Maps, reworked or new maps are full with unsafe pallets, dead ends and as if that isnt enough there is a game mechanic named "Bloodlust"
4.Hitboxes, the survivors hitbox are the double size of the actual model + the killers weapon also is the double size of the model combine that with dedicated servers, have fun.
5.SoloQ + the ranking i mentioned before.
6.Killers become stronger with every patch + new good perks like the new meta Tinkerer, Undying, Ruin while survivors get useless perks.
7.except the meta perks DS, UB, BT, IW, Adre etc you're screwed and rely on your teammates (have fun relying on the urbaning and self caring megs) also as soon you dont use that perks you get either hard camped or tunneled.
and here comes the next issue, devs havent done anything about camping and tunneling meanwhile they rework maps with deadends, keep bloodlust in the game, make the ranking completely a clown fiesta, 90% pallets, dedi servers, hitboxes etc
8.Ressources are limited (pallets, windows) while there are no good tilesets spawning anymore, reworked main buildings and IF you just need to break a wall.
you also need to deal with 90% of unsafe pallets, aka bloodlust pallets + everything i mentioned like servers, hitboxes, dead ends etc
9.did i already mentioned huntress hitbox? one hit hatchets, exhaustion addons like for clown what doesnt take a little bit of effort to hit, in general addons. when did you touched any addons? meanwhile devs try to destroy flashlights with every patch by changing the animation and fov for literally no reason.
so.. why is the game survivor sided again? devs made one good change and that was the mori change.
Spirit with stridor is fine.
Pyramid head spamming his ability is fine.
Huntress hatchet hitbox is fine.
Leatherface able to chainsaw for 30 meters is fine.
Freddy spamming his snares and having 3 meter long arms is fine.
now combine all that stuff together, have fun.
and NO im not a entitled survivor main, i play probably killer more then survivor.
here is what survivors have SWF and keys thats it.
now please tell me "why is this game so heavily survivor sided" im really wondering.
but i know what people will say "SWF exists" thats all what they will say. and my respond to you stop acting like everyone plays SWF. stop blaming your bad decisions on SWF all the time.
but honestly let me hear what you have to say. maybe you can change my mind.
I'm gonna go through this trying to be as unbiased as possible ( since being completely unbiased is impossible no matter if you play both sides )
1. I feel the bad match making system is as much of an issue for killers as it is for survivors
example 1
A newer killer gets ranked against good survivors and gets completely stomped and possibly harassed with how most survivors high rank are toxic (not all just a majority)
Example 2
A good survivor or 2 can be punished into a horrid match because other survivors are getting destroyed by a higher rank killer making it a unfair match for the 2 left
Given both of those examples the survivors still have a good chance of escape in the end because keys or 1 gets the hatch, the game basically giving 1 or 2 survivors a free win (even though its not their fault they had bad teamates). In the killers case he gets nothing since he is the "power role" that is solo, even though he isn't at fault for the match making the game giving him 0 opportunity for a free win or some sort of relief from a loss.
On both sides of this there are issues but killer has 0 relief from these problems while survivors have 3 (counting end game after killer closes hatch giving survivors another chance to escape)
2. People with McDonalds wifi are again an issue for both sides, the devs are trying to find a way to stop the abuse of it.
3. Maps that are re worked into giving the killer a better chance shouldnt be an issue after maps like Haddon field, farm, and the game being maps heavily favored by survivors since they cater to keeping them safe even if they make mistakes that should otherwise give the killer a hit not to mention the addition of perks into all of that.
Bloodlust is a mechanic that barely does anything for the killer 8/10 times, a stack of bloodlust takes 15 seconds. Add a looping survivor to add another 15 seconds, the survivor drops the pallet at the loop and runs to the next tile to repeat and the killer looses that stack on the pallet or a hit after about 40 seconds to be fair. Now repeat that chase with the likely inclusion of deadhard and no use of God pallets, the other 3 survivors would typically be on gens and 3 generators would pop completing 3/5 of the survivors objective and only 1/12 of the killers.
4. Hit boxes aren't that big of an issue, you already have way too many benefits as a survivor to escape a hit from the killer to then require them to give you a hug everytime to hit you
5. Killers are only solo q, against a full team of good survivor solo q or not it is a massive task to do. But also in that case survivors do suffer from bad teammates whether it be intentional or not, its a team effort for survivor its gonna happen just report if its intentional, if not then get the devs to fix matching.
6. I see alot of perks that have been added in recently get fair amounts of use and are decent in practice if used correctly, killers before hand had very few perks even worth taking and most perks are extremely situational i.e. territorial imperative, hangman trick and so on. Killers getting viable perks shouldn't be met with hate since they had very few to pick from before hand compared to the large pool of survivor perks that SHOULDN'T be massive game changers since its 12 perks vs the killers 4.
7. You shouldn't have to rely on meta perks to win the game, nonetheless your not gonna survive every match just like killers don't win every match. Don't blame your loss on your perks since you have pallets, windows, and loops to help you escape the killer and those are much more consistent than the killers power anyway.
Things like tunneling and camping are already punished by the game with DS and the loss of points for being near a hook. If tunneling is still an issue after DS being such a strong perk already then stop defending perks that strong and ask for an actual fix instead of being afraid to lose a crutch perk. I find camping and tunneling to be boring and unfair gameplay, but don't be surprised if someone tunnels you or camps you to get a chance at winning the game, blame the balancing for forcing killers to have to play "un fair", 3 gens popping in the first chase in unfair too but it still happens its literally the objective just like killing is for the killer.
8. There used to be way to many pallets on each map and have been rightfully reduced. If you find pallets to be a valuable resource then don't throw them down instantly and loop, if you teammate does it then do gens. Pallets aren't supposed to be there every time you need them they are a resource you should use with caution i.e. don't put down pallets after you get hit. The amount of pallets on each map can still be an issue for killers but is much more fair then before. And you wanting there to be more God pallets in the game is ridiculous, you can mind game unsafe pallets and loop them the escape the killer if you can't then stay in brown ranks.
Breakable walls being added into the game have added in almost nothing to the killers advantage and most actually serve to help the survivors and force killers to break them even though they didn't exist in that doorway before, they are a laughable add into the game and only function as a waste of time killers most likely can't spend.
9. Did I mention insta heals? DS lockers? 4 man key escapes? Not to mention they keep trying to find a way to nerf killers with viable abilities because anything that can't be bullied is overpowered.
The change on moris was horrid since they now serve absolutely no purpose other than to see the animation.
But survivors looping killers for 2 minutes is fair
Ds/ub is fair
4 man Perfect parts is fair
But all you will probably say is that I'm not a good enough killer to deal with all of that.
10. Saying that the game is unbalanced is 100% true, lower ranks the killer dominates since survivor don't know how to play against the killer yet, but high ranks its abysmal how long you can waste a killers time because of a God loop with 2 health stages insta heals and deadhards with ds. Killers in the end have it harder then survivors because in the higher ranks the survivors have as much power as the killer, and with them being a 4 v 1. They are are not trapped in there with you your trapped in there with them t-bagging and clicking the flashlight before harassing you at post match, and if you do win you will likely get harassed any way.
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@TicTac said:
Its widely known that tunneling instead of hooking every survivor is more effective. Its not even straight up tunneling one person, only ignoring one person and never chasing them, gives the killer a better chance. Hooking every survivor three times makes the game a lot harder.
So would you as killer or survivor want a mechanic which makes 12 hooking viable? Or what are your reasons against it? Would it make games too long?
Edit: the goal is that the killer shouldnt be penalized for not tunneling a survivor to death.
Gen speed is the biggest issue with the game at the moment, not to mention that its the only objective that's important to a survivor 100% of the time causing them to go off in mass easily. The best way to increase game time, enjoyment, and gameplay for both sides is too increase gen time and add an objective worth equal amounts of points that both killer and survivor engage in. Besides that there are alot of thing in the game that can remove enjoyment for either side, camping, godloops, god pallets, etc. Things that are a free win for either side should be reworked so that no one gets punished because of brainless gameplay. The game is only fun if it is fair for everyone and rewards good gameplay, crutch perks and mechanics remove any enjoyment from them because they aren't an award they are a free win.
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@meatisadelicacy said:
I do love the killer mentality that anything but a 4k is a loss. When I run a garbage killer for 3-5 gens and then get facecamped I'm like, well at least three people had the easiest win of their life. I'm not screaming that *I* LOST AND SOMETHING MUST BE DONE.
Issue with that logic is that there are 4 survivors with 1 killer, if your able to keep a killer busy for that many gens to go off its blatant that the game is unbalanced and chase times are way to long compared to gens speeds with the possibility of 3 survivors doing separate gens at once, if the killer was plain bad then thats understandable but often enough that's not the case past green rank. A killers objective is to kill all 4 survivors as the survivors are to do all 5 generators. Killers need 3 hooks to "fairly" kill a survivor and get enough bp out of it to even matter. In your situation the killer could complain because yes, the gens popped off if one chase that took too long and he shouldn't of committed to it so now he's going to de rank, its a loss, your 1 of 4 survivors. 3 of which escape and "win" the game. Even in the case of a survivor getting the hatch after 3 kills, They technically "win" the game and in red rank hurts the killer alot more than youd think.
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@savevatznick said:
>Be killer
>9 hook game, kill 3 survivors
>Hatch spawns
>black pip
Is the hatch really necessary? It's a terrible band-aid fix. When will we hold BHVR accountable for the absolutely abysmal "Stalemate-breaker" they have spawned? Are they even looking for a better solution?
Hatch should stay closed the entire game, once you kill 3 survivors the exit gates should power giving the killer a chance instead of drawing out a search of the map for that damned whistle. End game should also start as soon as the 3rd survivor is killed in this case since gate opening times are nothing unless the killer has remember me. And after all that the hatch should spawn after 3 survivors killed and only be opened by a key. Its presence as a free win with 0 work required is abysmal. Imagine if the killer was able to kill the last survivor in 1 hit instead of 2 regardless of health state, same amount of effort in both cases, 0 reason for these things to be considered balanced
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@Soulslayer618 said:
As stated in a previous post DCing is not intended and is meant to be for emergencies/game crashes and the like, but the balance is that the survivors and killer get a minor bump in BP and a little bit towards pipping.
HOWEVER!! A suicide on hook does not provide anything it gives the killer a bit more bp but not as much as an additional hook meanwhile survivors get nothing but a loss of a teammate and a more difficult match
downsides to the suicide: ?????
no penalty? you keep the BP you earned so far. and its supposedly not reportable?(if it is reportable let me know)
it seems a bit unfair and it imposes basically the same downsides and ruins the game same as DCing but with no draw back
A Survivor suiciding in red ranks can cause you to 1 pip if you kill the rest, the amount of blood points it gives you isn't worth anything to the killer in higher ranks and screws their team to the point you can end up black piping or even de ranking to everyone dying on first hook or dc because 1 person couldn't handle the game. Suicide should be treated as a DC and make a person reportable and not cause the killer to be punished for playing the game optimally. If the killer camped or tunnelled however there should be a punishment to that besides ds seeing as that perk is rarely ever used as anti tunnel and is abused by half of the survivors who use it
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@Emsilyy3 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1814600#Comment_1814600
Now it all makes sense, you stole all the keys and that’s why I never find one.
But in all seriousness 3 gens means 2 survivors can escape. And 9/10 the killer has the chance of finding the hatch whilst patrolling generators? They still have to do gens to get to that point. If people are saying 3 gens are easy then make gem speeds longer by 15 seconds, or killers need to run Franklin’s.
Theres such a double standard for this game. If a survivor gets tunnelled or slugged then they have to use ds or ub, so if killers are so butthurt about keys, why can’t they just bring Franklin’s?
Biggest Reason as a killer you wouldn't be able to alter your perks is that against stronger teams (red rank or swf purple) you need to use your perks to apply pressure and Franklin's provides very little since most survivors don't rely on items and can just go back and pick them up anyway. Killers have 4 perks versus the 16 survivors have in total which can mean the 4 you bring are the only things that can stop you from losing a match to 4 deadhard or other exhausten perks that waste the killers time and can extend chases dramatically. Also killers who tunnel or camp should definitely be punished i just feel like the devs need to find a meaningful way to do so