Godzilla
Godzilla
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- Godzilla
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@YamamuraVideoRentals said:
Are these things that were actually published?
They are in the notes for the PTB next week.
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nevermind, I got it
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@R1ch4rd_N1x0n said:
I pulled it off on my second attempt. The key is, when it's ready, don't activate it yet, hit someone with normal blades as much as you can, then activate it. Waste it on 1 person if you must. Don't try to save it for groups.
Are you on console or PC though? I imagine it's much easier for aiming with mouse and key board. (I may have cried myself to sleep the on the day they announced indefinite delay for cross progression between Switch and Steam/PC).
Yeah thats pretty much the strategy I've been trying, but even an injured survivor with max laceration doesn't seem to have a hard time avoiding my blades (or me just missing cause aiming his blades on console is a nightmare) for the entire duration. Pulling it off once in a match is doable, but getting it up a second time and being able to do it succesfully a second time wont come to fruition
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@White_Owl said:
Is it the challenge to down two survivors with Main Event? It's not that hard, keep in mind that it doesn't say you must down them in a single Main Event, you can do it in two different occurrencies.
Yeah i know I can do it with 2 Main Events, its just getting it twice in a match, as a killer I dont play, on console (on Switch no less). I've mucked around with my sensitivity but that's not helping either.
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@Atrushan88 said:
Sorry I can't understand what you're saying, but I'm saying if a slinger can shoot someone, reload and then pull them to them while shooting them again, it's a one shot possibility.
Giving slinger the option of both reloading AND shooting again while pulling someone is a one shot possibility.
Ok a different way of putting it. Shooting a spear survivor who was healthy when you speared them, would be the same as reeling them and hitting them with a basic attack., which causes them to be injured. It would be the same thing. Not an insta down on a healthy survivor.
Its just a way to give the Slinger the ability to down a already injured survivor across a dropped, safe pallet.
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@Atrushan88 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1271755#Comment_1271755
Here's the thing, your suggestion is to shoot them while healthy, reload while they're healthy, and hit them again, while they're healthy downing them. That's ridiculous. That IS a one shot, and would make other one shots useless.
Thats not what I worte, here's at least how I meant it:
Healthy survivor gets speared, Slinger reloads with Speared Healthy Survivor, Slinger shoots speared healthy survivor, Survivor is now injured but freed from the spear and is off running while the Slinger now has to reload before he can shoot again.
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@Atrushan88 said:
Probably not? I dunno, I don't use Steam very much, only when my friends ask me to.
As for the "different perspective of an instadown". I'd say hitting someone from range, and being able to hit them again without them being able to react is still an instadown. But if you want to believe it's not, again, "Okay".
Plague and Huntress only need to hit an injured survivor once at range to down them, under these ideas, the Slinger has to spend time reloading then shoot again. From what I've been told, good Slingers won't spear a survivor unless they know they can reel them in so am injured survivor who is speared is usually hooped already. This just gives him the ability to down a survivor across a dropped pallet like the killer shack pallet, something two other killers can do already so it's not an overpowered ability unless you think Huntress and Plague are overpowered
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@Atrushan88 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1269453#Comment_1269453
I'm not sure what you're talking about being scared, but okay I guess. As for saying you should not post any more ideas being an attack, I guess if you were thin skinned enoough you could perceive it as an attack, but it was to preserve the idea of balance rather than attack you. Like the ideas you put forth were probably akin to "Make NOED last all game and not be a hex totem". Like there weren't even any promoted negative impacts to any of your ideas.
I've worked on games that were put out there, they weren't anything big or even likely well known, but it was enough I think to formulate an opinion on balance. Hell I literally refused to put some things in that the owners of said projects asked for.
That said, yes, your suggestion IS capable of a one shot insta down. You said he should be allowed to reload WHILE pulling survivors in, but ALSO shoot them while they're pulled in, AND that injured survivors should be downed. That's a one shot, no matter how low of a chance it is. In fact your idea as you said was LITERALLY based on extra chain strength add ons, making that more of a possibility.
Perceiving something as an attack is not the same as being insulted by said attack or perceived attack. Even if someone was throwing around racial slurs, which is an irrefutably an attack, a person can still choose to not be insulted by it. Engaging in trolly snarky remarks for the fun of it is something else. But if you say there were no attacks meant I would truely prefer to give you the benefit of the doubt and believe you and just chalk it up to the difficulty of interpreting someones message without hearing their tone, body posture, etc. I'd rather have a chill discussion with someone who shares an interest.
I don't think you need to be worried about preserving the idea of balence. Like I said, I have no experience in game development, just a love for this game, and if my ideas are bad, Im ok with that. No one is an expert at everything, so if I'm dipping my toes in foreign waters, I fully expect I could be dead wrong. The professionals at bvhr, even if they saw my post, would be able to suss out any bad ideas, they do this for a living and I would have to trust their judgment.
Any of these games you worked on make it to Steam? One of my favourite games, Sang-Froid Tales of werewolves, was made by I believe a group of university and I love that game to bits. Its far from perfect, but I love it the same. Pretty sure they disbanded cause they haven't made anything for a while and the game is now free on Steam.
Ok I have a different perspective on what a insta down is. I always thought insta down was being able to put a healthy survivor into the dying state (like Billys chainsaw). Why do you thinking being able to down an injured survivor from range is overpowered when we already have 2 killers that can do so, and can do so across dropped pallets at places like the killer shack pallet, something Slinger can't do (Huntress and powered up Plague, who moves at the regular %115 speed?)
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@Atrushan88 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1269249#Comment_1269249
Again, you haven't hurt my feelings, I can just tell that someone who puts ideas this imbalanced doesn't CARE about balance enough to make suggestions about balance. If my feelings were hurt, If my feelings were hurt, you would know. It takes a lot to get to me, a lot more than you have, and when something DOES get to me, I go off. I haven't went off, so obviously I'm not hurt. I also haven't resorted to any personal attacks to lead anyone to believe I "have my feelings hurt", unlike you.
As for me "being too scared" to show anyone anything I've worked on, it's more that I'm very bad with completing projects because I always end up bouncing from one thing to another constantly and have no focus, especially considering I don't have the funds to pay people to do artwork and the like, and am generally scared that I might start paying someone for artwork and then bounce on to something else. I'm a very unfocused person, it's a problem, I'm aware of it, but I certainly know more about balance.
As for the Wright Brothers, as I said, they already had the knowledge, and they started with gliders several times before testing a full on airplane. You're jumping into a prototype airplane with no previous experience or testing. Maybe it was a little overboard for me to say "You just shouldn't post any ideas anymore", as again, I don't NORMALLY say this, but your ideas are unbalanced to the point of basically comparing it to saying "Nurse should automatically lock on to her target every time she blinks".
Nah man I'm feeling great about this whole discussion i've gotten from folks responding here. I may actually be slightly swayed in my opinion on the Slingers viability, might continue that way, might not, but I always keep an open mind.
Never intended any personal attacks/insults, tis only human to be scared or nervous to open up and present you and your attempts at a craft. I feel it about my career. And yeah I would say that saying I should not post any ideas is an attack, it's not saying I'm stupid, but I am capable of reading between the lines. Lets not pretend otherwise.
What experience do you have that makes you say you know about game balence? (not being snarky, just wanna know what leg you stand on rather then being just some internet rando to me)
I would have thought it would be clear I don't have experience balancing a game (see discussion title and the number of posts beside my name). Even if the ideas I put forth are totally off, tis no reason get worked up or be in such disbelief at such suggestions. Yeah, I have zero experience in balancing games. But I do play this game alot and care about it a metric crap ton. Putting out some ideas, no matter how bad they may be, does not mean I don't care about this game or its balance. You've been pretty active on these forums so you obviously care too, and if you do know so much, then can we not be chill about discussing how my ideas would be unbalanced?
I can tell you got worked up cause no where in my ideas was there a possibility of a ranged 1 shot insta down. In my ideas, shooting a speared healthy survivor would cause them to be injured but free from the spear and the Slinger would have to reload.
Anyways, I hope you manage to get some of those projects off the ground and into something. I can tell you that making something with your own hands and putting it out there is a good feeling, even if it is kinda crap. I've done it, had said work judged by a very skilled person in that field, and walked away hopefully having learned from it. Tis how we grow.
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@Atrushan88 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1269091#Comment_1269091
Your suggestion was to completely top the balance of a killer around so hard that another killer was useless by design. If the Wright brothers had attempted using theif first airplane from the get go that didn't work, they would have died as well and never got to try again, so your comparison is rather silly. They were also already familiar with the topic of what they were going for, whereas you are not. I may have only worked on small projects that I never put out into the world, but I'm familiar enough with balance to tell that these ideas are so off the unbalanced that you likely will never get the idea of what would be balanced, with the suggestions you're bringing to the table. That's why I said I don't normally say this to people, in fact you may be the first.
You didn't hurt my feelings, I just was completely in disbelief at your idea and how you thought it would honestly be balanced in any way, shape, or form.
"If the Wright brothers had attempted using theif first airplane from the get go that didn't work, they would have died as well and never got to try again, so your comparison is rather silly." HA, no. Their first successful flight was a low speeds, 3 ft off the the ground. Sure potential for death was there, but just being injured is a million times more likely, they were hardy people back then.
I can tell your feelings are hurt, its ok. I titled my DISCUSSION "a goof with gunslinger ideas", how serious do you think I am about becoming a game developer? If my ideas would be terrible in practice, I'm perfectly happy with that. Is there anything harmful about something tossing out ideas about something they enjoy? (The answer is no, if the proffessionals at BVHR know these would be bad ideas, then they would never put them in. Relax son, take a breath, getting worked up over something like this is not good for your health)
"I may have only worked on small projects that I never put out into the world, but I'm familiar enough with balance to tell that these ideas are so off the unbalanced that you likely will never get the idea of what would be balanced, with the suggestions you're bringing to the table."
So if you've been too scared to show anyone anything you've worked on, how do we know you're any better then me?
I gotta go for the night, try and relax my friend, you do better wen you are relaxed and focused. Take care.
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@[Deleted User] said:
@Gozilla
You don't really break a lot of pallets as Deathslinger until after the person is already down, or you find yourself in a situation where it'd be quicker to break the pallet to catch up to them if you find navigating around it would take longer than going through it.
And yeah shooting, reeling, hitting, reloading, and hooking all take time, but PGTW also gives you back a lot of that time. And assuming you're running M&A and you're fast enough, you get another hit/down (sometimes multiple hits) when you go to PGTW a gen someone's working on, making it very dangerous for them to touch it again. I think PGTW is very important on Deathslinger, and I do think he's a bit too slow to be used on large maps without it, unless you 3 gen. And even then.
aye, yes PGTW gives you time back, but a killer that isn't slowed down by the reeling and reloading and slower speed gets the PGTW off and moves on to something else. But then again being ranged and maybe able to end some chases quicker then other killers save for Huntress in certain situations could maybe be in his favor but that gets into comparing his 'downing a survivor' time to killers other then Huntress in similiar situations, and 'ain't no one got time for that'
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@Atrushan88 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1269091#Comment_1269091
Your suggestion was to completely top the balance of a killer around so hard that another killer was useless by design. If the Wright brothers had attempted using theif first airplane from the get go that didn't work, they would have died as well and never got to try again, so your comparison is rather silly. They were also already familiar with the topic of what they were going for, whereas you are not. I may have only worked on small projects that I never put out into the world, but I'm familiar enough with balance to tell that these ideas are so off the unbalanced that you likely will never get the idea of what would be balanced, with the suggestions you're bringing to the table. That's why I said I don't normally say this to people, in fact you may be the first.
You didn't hurt my feelings, I just was completely in disbelief at your idea and how you thought it would honestly be balanced in any way, shape, or form.
"If the Wright brothers had attempted using theif first airplane from the get go that didn't work, they would have died as well and never got to try again, so your comparison is rather silly."
HA, no. Even their first succesful flight was at low speeds and was 3 ft off the ground. Yes potential for death was there, an injury at worst would be a million times more likely. They were hardy folks back then.
I can tell your feelings are hurt, I titled my discussion "a goof with deathslinger ideas" how commited do you think I am to becoming a game developer with a title like that? And if the ideas would be terrible in practice, I can live happily with that, is there harm in someone tossing out ideas for something they enjoy? (the answer is no, if the professionals at bvhr can tell its a bad idea then it will never happen, calm down and take a breath son, its not healthy to get worked up over nothing).
"I may have only worked on small projects that I never put out into the world, but I'm familiar enough with balance to tell that these ideas are so off the unbalanced that you likely will never get the idea of what would be balanced, with the suggestions you're bringing to the table."
So how do we know you are any better if you are too scared to show your work?
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1269046#Comment_1269046
I'd take the vast majority of corn map loops as examples of where Deathslinger is E: potentially better. The long hay loops on Fractured Cowshed (hitting the survivor instantly right before they get to the pallet, or if they made it, dragging them around the short side), the cart loops with the gaps in between (or just shooting through the carts themselves, though that's pretty difficult), the Autohaven-esque hay bale loops with gaps in between, and I'd say even normal jungle gyms and L-T walls have more options for Deathslinger to come out on top. And that's the thing, right? That instant-shot allows him to be very liberal, and even tricky, with his positioning. Huntress doesn't really have that going for her due to her wind-up, making her 1v1 against a good survivor trickier.
Of course, Huntress excels at slugging on some maps, and that's why, again, I'd compare him more to Demo than her. They both have strong 1v1 tricks and can play tiles very differently depending on their power usage. Huntress is pretty much forced to throw hatchets all the time to get her wins, whereas I'd bet you could win consistently with Deathslinger/Demo without ever using your power (just the threat of it), or only ever using it once or twice a match.
Kinda reminds me of parry items in Dark Souls now that I think about it.
(hitting the survivor instantly right before they get to the pallet, or if they made it, dragging them around the short side)
I dunno I still feel like Huntress comes out on top. Getting the hit before the pallet is the same cause after the Slinger reels them in he has his hit animation after the hit and has to reload, while the survivor now has the time to go through the pallet and drop it (which the Slinger can now break, but hit animation, reload, break pallet, that gives the survivor loads of time to get away from a 110% speed killer). Where as with huntress, after the hit, if the survivor drops the pallet she can just go up and break the pallet without being slowed with a hit animation or reloading (assuming she has more hachets) or just run through the not dropped pallet and keep up the chase.
as for loops at jungle gyms, if the survivors gets to the other side of a dropped pallet the Slinger can't down them, where as the Huntress can. I don't know if there are angles at gyms and T-L's the Slinger can make that the Huntress can't, but I agree that he can capatalize on them faster then she can though.
Even the Demo/Slinger comparison, i feel Shred might be better UP CLOSE, obviously at distance the spear is way quicker and easier to land the hit. But comparing a hit Shred to a spear-reel-hit, Shred only has the hit animation to play and a half second charge time to use again, and has the benefit of breaking pallets if a survivor drops it on them, granted Slinger would probably spear them from the same distance since its faster then the lunge.
hhmm, I'd like to see a match where a Slinger only uses his power once or twice and gets a 4K.
I know he has his subtle differences from Huntress (and the comparison between his power and the Demo Shred) but with the reeling in time, reload time, 110% move speed, and his inability to down injured survivors across a dropped pallet with his ranged attack, I feel he needs some buffs. Maybe just increase reload speed, reduced stun and all that would be enough, but if those aren't going to happen, then something else.
and why has no one mentioned my last sentence in my original post about Leather face and that possible head cosmetic I talked about? Am I just late to that party and its old news?
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@NekoTorvic said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1268903#Comment_1268903
I did understand your post but it seems I wasn't clear enough with what I said. I used the example of an uninjured survivor simply to showcase a situation where a Deathslinger could easily shoot you while you're putting the pallet down and it is a very easy shot because you're locked in animation.
Currently, the most Deathslinger can get from shooting someone over a pallet is an Injure. However with your idea Deathslinger would be able to down an already injured survivor through a pallet by reloading and shooting them again while they are speared. I think this would be too oppressive and I think the fact that pallets are mostly reliable against Deathslinger once your injured is important for survivors not to feel they're completely powerless against him.
So yeah, I hope this clarifies what I meant : P
S'all good 👍️
I wouldn't think it would be anymore oppressive then how Huntress can down injured survivors across a pallet. I think that would just put him on par with Huntress in that regard, then away from pallets their other differences would come into play (Slingers quicker shots when he's already loaded, Huntress having longer range, etc)
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@Atrushan88 said:
First off, WHETHER THE DEATHSLINGER DOES OR DOES NOT pull a survivor to him, he injures them, unless he basic attacks WITHOUT hitting them. So basically you're saying "If the chain breaks, immediately allow him to shoot again once the stun ends, WHILE INJURING THEM". This is basically saying "Give the Deathslinger an extra benefit of an extra shot aside from the injured survivor losing a health state for NOT doing what he's supposed to with his weapon, aka reeling in the survivor to basic attack them". That's silly in itself. This would make him able to down people without pulling them to him regardless and he would literally be the same as Huntress, but more instant, closer ranged, and able to hit two people at once. They penalized his ability to not fully reel in survivors on PURPOSE. You're giving him BENEFITS to this via being able to simply reload, and pull survivors to him after reloading. They'd get less distance due to the reload being in with the stun. He'd likely be within range to shoot them, reload, pull them in, and then shoot them immediately after the stun because of how close they'd be to him. That's ridiculous and you have no idea about balance. Heck you're even giving him benefits to missing his shots completely.
Not only that you're giving him the POTENTIAL(no matter how small of a possibility it is) to give him a RANGED ONE SHOT. You'd literally be killing Myers with that idea. What'd be the point of having someone have to stalk to the potential of one shots if someone can do that BUT RANGED in their BASIC ABILITY INFINITELY?
I'll say it again, you have no idea about balance, and I don't think you should post any more "balance" ideas. I don't normally say things like that but this is one of the most ludicrous "suggestions" I've ever seen.
Yes, such stellar advice you offer. "You were terrible at something you tried for the first time so never do so again". Stupid Wright brothesr should have stopped trying to make airplanes when the first one failed, god what a terrible world we live in due to their persistence and unwillingness to give up. We should all strive to be like you and give up at the first sign of a mistake.
On the other hand my ideas seem to have really upset you and hurt your feelings. I'm sorry for not being aware of how sensitive you are, I didn't know some text on a webpage about a game would get you so upset.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Even with my awful aim and console woes I still 4K in the majority of my games at rank 1 with Deathslinger. His 1v1 is oppressively strong and with some smart map control prioritization and perk choices he's more than fine. The natural pressure of his gun shortens chases whether you can hit your shots or not, and there's a lot of loops/windows that can be made super unsafe if you get good at your angle shots. These places aren't nearly as unsafe against Huntress as they are against Deathslinger (I'd say a fairer comparison is Demo vs Deathslinger due to their quick power windup mindgames/pressure). Combine that with PGTW and M&A (to get first hits quicker) and you'll quickly see how good he can be.
I'd love to see a small base reload buff and a few add-on changes (his add-on variety really sucks) but other than that, he's good and fun. Not as braindead as Spirit/Freddy, but pretty damn solid. Buffing his basekit even more, especially in the ways you suggested, just feels unnecessary or otherwise lacking real purpose (like the reloading while speared thing, which would take too long at base).
I wish I could absorb from your brain the kinds of spots you're refering to that Slinger is better then Huntress at, would make the discussion easier :P
And yeah I agree bit faster reload and add-on changes would go along way. I feel the chain charges are a bit pointless, its seems that a Slinger with a speared survivor is capable of reeling in or there are obstacles in the way that make it impossible to do so (I could be wrong though). Gotta be like what Orion said and be good enough that you are always in a position to reel in a survivor.
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@luka2211 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1268944#Comment_1268944
True,there isn't. But there's quite a few godlike slingers out there. Jane Romero is an example ^^ (actual name of the player). Same as how there isn't really any godlike spirit streamers but nearly everyone knows Samantha lmao.
s'all good, one person said tofu and zubat are good showcases so I'll look into them later
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1268953#Comment_1268953
Hatchets take much longer to travel (making them easier to dodge) and require you to go to a locker to replenish them, whereas the hook travels very quickly and can be reloaded on the spot. Hatchets also need to be charged, but the gun is always ready to fire.
Furthermore, if you say that a good Huntress isn't hindered by distance, then you also have to accept that a good Deathslinger won't put himself in a situation where he's unable to reel in the survivor.
Yup, the spear does travel faster, and yup, I can believe a good slinger will only spear a survivor when they know they can reel them in. But take a slinger and huntress who never miss their shots, huntress will have her survivor down quicker. Even if hachet wind up time and gun reload took the same time, the slinger has to reel in on both hits AND has his hit animation to go through after the first hit.
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@deadbyhitbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1268694#Comment_1268694
To be fair, Tru3 is not that good of a DeathSlinger player. When you watch someone like OhTofu or Zubat play him, you can see how good of a killer he actually is.
Thank you, I will look into their Slinger gameplay.👍️
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@Huff said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1268935#Comment_1268935
My point is, they're two completely different characters and comparing them is like comparing two other characters based off one feature of the character. Just like comparing Freddy and Demo because they both teleport, or Hag and Trapper because they both can place down traps. Whether or not the two characters are similar doesn't change the fact that they're nuanced enough to where you can't compare them as a 1-to-1, because they're simply different. Mister_xD already put it pretty well I think.
He can sneak up a lot on people, he can hit shots that Huntress couldn't, and vice versa, he can pull people into a less optimal position, he can apply deep wounds, he can send out a projectile without having to wind up... And these are all things that a person that doesn't even own Deathslinger can figure out. You can't just compare her to Deathslinger, because it's like comparing apples and oranges -- they're just two different things.
So you don't own or haven't played as Deathslinger?
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1268944#Comment_1268944
How about the fact that he literally pulls the survivors to him, as opposed to giving them a speed boost while they're already quite far away?
Reeling in takes time, depending how close they are and if you are unable to reel in you either sacrifice the hit or take a major stun. And after either result you have to reload. Huntress can hit furthur away so a skilled huntress isn't hindered by a chain that only goes a set distance.
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@luka2211 said:
Forgot to add,you can't base how good he is of tru3 or any other streamer that DOESN'T MAIN HIM. You need alot of hours on him to hit ur shots and catch survs properly with his power.
Can you point me to a streamer or youtuber that does main him and can demonstrate other things he's capable of that The Huntress doesn't do already? I know their are probably non-streamers/youtubers but there is no records there.
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@Huff said:
The comparisons between Deathslinger and Huntress are becoming a little bit much for me... It's just watering the two characters down to compare them to each other.
I mean you might as well just start comparing Demogorgon and Freddy side by side because they can both teleport across the map so they're practically the same character, right? /s
Also, only an idiot or somebody that has 0 other options will ever run in a straight line toward a dropped pallet against a Huntress.
Comparing Freddy and Demo is a whole discussion unto itself.
Sorry for the comparisons but what does Slinger bring to the table that Huntress doesn't already and already does it better then him? Their mindgames are different, but that is always subjective based on the players at hand, not the raw capabilities of the killers
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@luka2211 said:
I play perkless/addonless deathslinger. Been grinding quite a lot of hrs on him,and lemme tell you his quickscope is actually quite ######### strong.
The survivor just has to completely predict when ur gonna take ur shot and can't react to it.
You don't even have to shoot,your presence makes survivors try to dodge and then they lose distance thus you can m1/shoot them easier.
You can easily bait DH,and you can also get people at loops quite easily unless they keep predicting ur shots(won't happen alot if u're a good slinger). I'd say he's in a pretty good spot as of rn tbh.
The mindgames are strong with him. That is for sure. But if mindgames fail, there is still just the inevitability of the feats a killer is capable of and Huntress is able to down survivors much quicker then Slinger if mindgames are taken out of the equation for both of them.
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@NekoTorvic said:
I don't think Deathslinger is in a position where he needs these buffs, they seem a bit too much. If you make him able to just down survivors over pallets then survivors have no recourse against him.
Counterplaying him involves getting into positions where he has to take preemptive shots and dodging preemptively, this requires pallets to be a useful defense.
Just think about the times where you're healthy, you drop a pallet and the Deathslinger just waits there for you to drop it, shoots you in the face with little effort cuz you're stuck in an animation and takes the stun to get the injure. I know I do that all the time because the most valuable thing for me is getting all survivors injured ASAP. Now imagine if he could just down you over the pallet like that. It would be very oppressive because of his fast ADS.
Huntress can down you over pallets, but she needs to make the right read and preemptively wind up the hatchet because she doesn't have the time to wind up on reaction like Deathslinger.
I think Deathslinger's problems are mostly in how slowly he does everything. He doesn't need a 1.5 second missed shot cooldown + 2.75 second reload where he moves at almost half the speed of a survivor...
The green reload and cooldown addons are actually a pretty fair and I honestly think they should probably be base. Addon reload speed is 2.25 seconds instead of 2.75 and missed shot cooldown addon is about 1 second instead of 1.5. So instead of giving survivors almost 5 seconds of moving almost twice as fast as the killer, you're giving them 3.25 seconds. It would be less discouraging for Deathslinger to use his power (im sure you've all seen the Deathslinger players who are just too scared to use their power because of how punishing and finicky it is so they barely ever shoot). His counterplay will remain the same and survivors will still make distance if he misses shots. I also think it'll make the killer feel better and more responsive to play.
Oh and hitting through windows should be fixed. Cuz I've never seen something so inconsistent in my life playing this game. Most of the time you get the hit but it's waaaay more finicky than it should be and when you don't get the hit it hurts your momentum quite a bit. Like if you reel the survivor in all the way and you can't real anymore it should be a guaranteed hit, period. Cuz at that point there's nothing more you can do to help you get the hit.
You might have read my post wrong. If a healthy survivor drops a pallet and the Slinger goes through the motions with my suggestions, all he would get is an injured survivor and an empty chamber, with no stun duration. If the survivor was unjured when they dropped the pallet, with my suggestions the Slinger could down them there yes.
I do agree with you as well with how long his actions and such take. Reducing them would go a long way and would then require furthur analysis to see if any changes would need to be made, or not made.
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@DawnMad said:
Deathslinger isn't weak in 1v1s at all, he is actually top tier in the right hands. He can nullify most loops and most windows. Most of your suggestions would make him even better at 1v1s which is unnecessary in my opinion. His problem is his lack of map pressure, he loses less time from actual chases and more time patrolling/finding survivors, which can be overcompensated by perks. I believe all killers should have upsides and downsides so Deathslinger is currently balanced enough. On the other hand, he isn't very fun to face personally because of the very minimal counter play against him in chases. If anything, I would prefer some tweaks to him instead of buffs or nerfs.
I don't agree on that he loses less time in chases, compared to Huntress he is slower to down someone.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgSCNmficmU
But i do agree that his bigger problem is the lack of map pressure. What did you think of my one suggestion to that in my initial post?
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@Mister_xD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1268751#Comment_1268751
he can spear them and then down them before they can break free from the chain on most pallets.
or you just break the pallet and reel them in before they reach the next.
he certainly has options to deny looping.
now to elaborate on my previous sentence:
"she [the Huntress] has a longer range than he [the Deathslinger] has - therefore [to make up for that] he [the Deathslinger] can sneak up [to them - the survivors - due to his small Terror Radius] to get surprise shots [which Huntress can not do, due to her massive Lullaby Radius, therefore the Survivors being alerted of her presence] and [...]"
and then the looping part which should be self explanatory - which i also elaborated a bit more above.
gotcha, thank you.
I dunno about being able to hit them on MOST pallets once they've been dropped. Yes for unsafe pallets, but what is the ratio of safer pallet loops to unsafe? Thats not something I'd think anyone has counted or can count.
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@GrannyonAcid said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1268744#Comment_1268744
Dunno. Deathslinger with Monitor & Abuse and Save the best for last is strong as hell. Being able to reload while you reel someone in is just ridiculous. Wouldn't even be able to get out of his guns range by time stun ended and you'd just shoot them again.
Save the best has to be built up. And my suggestion while reload with a speared survivor, not while reeling. And without a full stack of Save the best, I don't think its any faster then double hachets from Huntress
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@Mister_xD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1268721#Comment_1268721
considering her massive windup time, her projectile speed and therefore the survivors ability to react to her shots and dodge them, id argue both are around the same strength level.
yeah, she has a longer range than he has - therefore he can sneak up to get surprise shots and is able to cut loops a lot more effective than she ever could.
i am playing the killer on a daily basis at rank 1 (no add ons, so we're talking base power here) and im doing just fine. this killer has a rather high skill cap and buffing him will probaply end up making him a bit too good.
he is fine the way he is.
she can also down survivors across dropped pallets.
"yeah, she has a longer range than he has - therefore he can sneak up to get surprise shots and is able to cut loops a lot more effective than she ever could."
can you elaborate on that more? I don't get how having longer range leads to deathslinger getting surprise shots and such.
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@GrannyonAcid said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1268727#Comment_1268727
I mean when he was first released Sexy argued that Deathslinger was OP and Tru said he wasn't that good. But I don't watch a ton of DBD streams these days. So not sure what the overall thought on him is. But he's at least B tier for sure.
Killers are at their best at release cause they are new and how to play against them needs to be figured out.
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@GrannyonAcid said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1268694#Comment_1268694
Personally find Tru Talent to be a very bad killer player. It's fine to like who you like. But I think he's certainly one of the worst killer streamers out there.
Can you point me to a streamer who maintains red rank killer who says Deathslinger is great?
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@Mister_xD said:
Deathslinger is a really good killer already - if you can hit your shots.
i dont think he needs any buffs.
Except the time it takes to hit 2 shots, reel, hit, and reload is league's slower then Huntress. And she has much further range then him with the only downside being having to reload at lockers. But if you hit your shots with her, then it's not a concern
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I'm sorta basing this all off truetalents judgment of the character. He literally plays the game for a living so I would trust him to know the capabilities of the character.
Not that I'm saying your experiences are false, but the variables you could be bringing to the table might be countless, whereas truetalents are consistently based around high lvl play
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@goat10em said:
Think about it. If they did that survivors would have to replace one of their over used perks like ds or unbreakable and that does not coincide with the mission here.
Except in the developer update they said new players were having the issue so they won't have all those perks. Maybe one or two but not a full 4 perk slots worth.
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@Fleece said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/976144#Comment_976144
Small game is a good perk just too many overlooking it. I'm still gonna use it regardless of the odd ruin nerfs because devour, noed, trapper traps and hag traps also just because I enjoy cleansing totems.
I don't think many like to take chances on the lesser known perks.
Needs more survivor maining streamers/youtubers to talk about :p problem is they are expert players and never need to worry about being able to find the totem or can just power through Ruin.
I wonder if the dev's have ever pushed Small Game when discussion about Ruin come up. I know they have lots of other things to do and they did put the perk in the game. I would assume that would be easier then reworking and testing a new version of the perk, but I don't have the background k knowledge to really know
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@Deadeye said:
@Godzilla +1, but unfortunately this game evolves by adapting to the players yelling loudest. As it is a confirmed strategy, there is no adaption by using perks, it is just yelling and waiting, until it get's nerfed.
I also think Small Game should be the choice for new survivors. It helps you pretty much getting map awareness. Learning killer trap placement, learning totem spots. Actually that would be exactly the spot that Small Game was made for. What else if not for new players?
Btw everyone forgets about gen tapping. If you really dislike totem search (which is laziness) and missing great skillchecks (which is training) so much, tap gens. I also dislike the reasoning "because it is frustrating" to justify several of the recent changes. Punishment is a key concept of DbD. You make a mistake, you get punished for it. Bad timing on loops? Get hit. Don't hit the skillcheck, regression and location revealed. Missing Hex skillcheck? Regression. Same on killer side. Get 360d? Short stun and probably much longer chase. Bad timing on window hits? Survivor reaches new obstacle. Bad handling with your killer power? No use of it and probably extra stun.
Quote about a "key issue" why it is frustrating to play against Ruin: "Its punishment of new players or those who can't hit Great Skill Checks". For me it is frustrating when I miss ANY skillcheck, not just ruin. Can we please have a 5% progression every 10 seconds on all interactions without the need of skillchecks? Seriously... And what the heck is less frustrating on higher difficulty skillchecks of the doctor compared to Ruin? With the doctor's reverse skillchecks coming in the same patch as the Hex changes. BHVR talking about consistency lately, but this view is not consistently spread over all their topics
I hear ya man, I agree with your statements.
I would likentonhear the dev's thoughts on this specific topic.
Small Game makes finding the totems easy for new players, they are learning more about the maps and all that, its helpful to the other survivors, they get blood points so they do get rewarded for cleansing.
New players won't have access to all the other second life perks and all that so it can't be taking a slot away from too many useful perks for them.
Maybe the dev's have talked about it before but I'm not a very active forum user and have only been playing since it came out on the Switch. Would be nice to know their thoughts. I doubt any of them will see this thread, I know they are busy.
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@Fleece said:
It doesn't even need a buff more people just need to stop complaining and learn to compromise by either running small game or learning how to hit ruin skill checks. I run that perk and just go around cleansing every totem I find out of paranoia the killer has noed or devour.
I totally agree with you. It's just that if I had to choose between buffing it or beefing RUIN, I'd rather have the buff
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I totally agree with you. It's just that if I had to choose between buffing it or beefing RUIN, I'd rather have the buff
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@SithLordLuxray said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/973491#Comment_973491
If I see a perk, I generally gun for it or make a note that I’ve seen it, should I choose a very rare or higher item, since passing up on a perk in the bloodweb usually results in it not appearing for 6 or more levels. I’ve been meaning to do a Small Game build for a while and had the toughest luck finding it. Same goes for Hope, with the Tome challenge. Hope was very difficult to find. Perhaps I’m just unlucky.
Yeah I'd have to agree that that you must be unlucky, or maybe I'm really lucky and no one else gets the perk in their web and that's why it's never brought up in discussions, no one knows the oerk exists :p
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@Zaptros said:
Personally, I think running small game will take up one perfectly good slot for perks that give value in killer/survivor detection or stay alive, like bond, spine chill, aderaline burst, self care, and more
Then that's the players choice, that's why we only have 4 perks slots. Being able to do everything would make the fane easy and boring.
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@JawsIsTheNextKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/973738#Comment_973738
- True but I don't believe I am on my own on this, and I suspect you agree with me that searching for Ruin is a waste of time.
- The core gameplay still needs to be addressed, no question. But a single perk considered to be mandatory even though it is a DLC should not be the answer. If the core mechanics are about to be fixed, old Ruin would break it. I am very optimistic something is going to follow.
I think I was editing my post while you wrote this last one.
But no I don't think searching for totems is a waste of time. If there is a chance of NOED or a crafty killer with devour hope, I'm happy to go out searching. Doing gens is fun, but if there are more options, I like to take in as much as i can.
I wouldn't say you are on your own for your opinion, but I would need some proof that its shared by a majority of the playerbase. 🤷♂️ I could be wrong, no doubt, but neither of us can truly know without a massive poll with a lot of participants.
I agree that a single perk shouldn't be the answer, but it's the best answer we have at the moment. Not ideal, butnit is what it is.
If the gameplay changes and this new Ruin fits in nicely then that's great. But for the time being, it's an overkill nerf without making any changes to the gameplay.
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@JawsIsTheNextKiller said:
Gen times were a problem, Ruin is brought out to fix it, everyone has to run ruin, ruin is a problem, small game needs to be used to fix it...
You see the problem was the gen times, ruin was the band-aid. Small game was effectively a band aid for ruin.
Nobody WANTS ruin in the game (except red rank survivors - it sisn't a problem to them). Killers hated feeling like they were forced to use it. Non-red rank survivors hated playing against it too. Trying to hit greats is unsatisfying, searching for Ruin is wasting time (and boring). If so many people despise a single perk, it needs addressing.
Except you can only speak for yourself when you say hitting great skill checks isn't satisfying or searching for totems is boring.
I am perfectly content searching out totems, I'll take that 1000 blood points for each totem please and thank you. And I do find hitting great skill checks satisfying. So those points vary per person but don't really have any bearing on the situation at hand.
And given what you brought up, people despise the perk because of its necessity to have decent matches. That means the core gameplay needs to be addressed, not the perk.
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@Dreamnomad said:
I'm not a fan of the Ruin change, but your argument isn't very good. First of all, small game works fine the way it is. The only thing I would change is to put an indicator if the totem is above or below you. But that is a minor thing. Secondly, it doesn't actually fix the problem as the devs have phrased it. Every player shouldn't have to run a specific perk to balance the game in case someone else is running a specific perk. That's bad game design.
I agree that it works fine as is, but if a change is to be made because new survivors find it hard to deal with then I'd rather small game get something rather then the change we are getting to Ruin.
I gotta disagree on your second point though. Perks change the game and alter how people can play it. Having a counter strategy is a part of any competition. If all hockey players had the same role and play style the game would be boring to watch. But that's why we have different roles, skills, players, etc, to shake things up and force the other team to adapt.
If there is a clear and easy way to counter a play style that a lot of killers run (ruin) then run Small Game, make the Ruin strategy useless and killers will find something else to counter and the game will evolve.
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@daddyo said:
Don't worry, I bet they'll buff small game AND nerf ruin :) BHVR are good at multitasking
But why is it never brought up? It made finding the totem as a total new player easy enough, it can't be just me so why don't more new survivors use it?
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@SithLordLuxray said:
If Small Game was more accessible, I could see this working out a bit. However on the 3 survivors I have at max level (PS4) I didn’t see Small Game until I refreshed the bloodweb at least 10 times past the level cap. Its extremely difficult to find for me and haven’t seen it pop up on any of my other survivors.
I have it on 11 of the 13 survivors that I've lvl'd up to lvl 40, some even have it at tier 3. Have you been looking for it until this point? I assume most people gloss over it for other perks