Evan_
Evan_
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- Evan_
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@brokedownpalace said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3535395#Comment_3535395
I've already said I disagree that being a good sports means you have to say gg. And I think having that expectation of others is self-centered.
I don't expect anyone to say gg. I just know that good sports and good players do it when they are able.
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@MikeStev said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3535335#Comment_3535335
“lack of will finding gaming buddies”
Dude, some people enjoy playing solo survivor.. please....
Strange, the original post doesn't seem to radiate enjoyment. Maybe I just missed it.
But I'm happy for everyone who enjoys the games they play the way they decide to play it. It shows they are doing it right.
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Was there ever a reason to play Solo Q besides the extra challenge or the complete lack of will to find gaming buddies?
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@GentlemanFridge said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3535287#Comment_3535287
that’s a rather big pool of players you’ll “never fully respect”
Welcome to dbd, where even the ages old customs of sportsmanship are considered toxic by some bloodflakes.
Console players and those who left are exempt of course, I mean those who say stuff without the 'gg'.
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I'll always respect those who say 'gg', and I'll never fully respect those who don't.
It's that simple.
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FtD works as global, though somewhat tricky Totem-defense. As long as it's active and Thrill is in play, totems can't be cleansed as screams interrupt it. It's fun!
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@EvilSerje said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3533841#Comment_3533841
I'm glad for you, but you missing my point. I'll make it shorter:
I'm with 1700h LITERALLY don't know what to do with tunneling and camping. What to say about people with 1000h? Or less than 500 (which I almost certain is the majority)? Ok, I'm bad, I can accept that, but what about hundreds of people I'm matched with?
So many complaints about tunneling is that player, that uses this scummy tactic, is remove gameplay. Why waste time then?
Learning is good. Someone kill Malenia with barehands in Elden Ring, someone beat Doom on hardcore with 0 damage, someone do 180 flickshots in FPS games. But it is never a mandatory thing to just play the game.
Basically, that was my message.
I'm drawn to these threads, as you (not you personally, but people who complain about tunneling in general) have some valid points. Often concealed by subjective stuff like 'scummy', 'unskilled', 'uncounterable', but the subjectivity of the presentation doesn't invalidate the core statement.
It's very valid to examine how strong tunneling as a tactic is, and how efficient are it's counters, how difficult they are to perform, and what's the cost for using them. On that part I gladly argue - I have some insights. But I still feel with you. Tunneling is strong, difficult to counter, and also difficult for the killer to reach a comparable efficiency without relying on it.
I wonder if they'll ever come up with a solution to heavily discourage / eliminate tunneling, while still keeping dbd an exciting, popular and at least this well-balanced game. I'll have much fun adapting to that when it happens. In the meantime, I accept that horror is a genre where desperation and quick death are theme-appropriate.
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@EvilSerje said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3533811#Comment_3533811
The thing with all you listed is that you can still play a game (maybe except strong Nurse, but I don't see her frequently). As for tunneling it's like "press X for win" for killer and GG.
I love the constant point to "git gud" for survivors, but never for killer. I have 1700h of playtime, and matched with people with around the same hours, many P100, but when tunneling/camping happen, it's 99% GG. Completely no reason to play when 3 survivors left on 3-4 gens.
So, maybe to play survivor it require 5K hours? Or 10? Is it really designed that way so only tournament players could play that role? I have zero intention to become Ayrin-class survivor, I just want to play few good matches after work (no matter if I win or lose).
Every survivor player have to be top-dog? I just want clarification, why game constantly balanced around bad killers vs strong survivors.
Thing with this "tools" is that they strip the game of any fun or desire to play. So, removing this "tools" would be healthy for experience of the game, not because it's "unfair" or "unavoidable".
Plus if devs remove this trash-tools, they can start balancing game around that.
Ahh, I also tell killers to 'git gud' if they complain that they can't counter Flashlights, Sabo, SWF, MFT... or whatever popular strong tools or tactics they complain about. It's just the survivor's turn considering the topic of the thread.
I also feel with those who find no fun in a game, so they urge the devs to change it how they'd prefer it. I just also state my opinion - in this case is that I have great fun learning to play around tools and tactics that make me lose - that's the joyful part of playing a complex game!
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@Venusa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3533824#Comment_3533824
I think you read someone else's comment regarding your first statement because I didn't say that.
Those things you've mentioned realistically don't happen in a regular match where survivors are a bunch of randoms with no communication. Bodyblocking doesn't make the tunneled survivor invincible. Down the bodyblocker and keep chasing the victim, even more pressure. Also what anti-tunnel perks? DS with a 3 second stun or OTR which is irrelevant if the killer tunnels you off hook? BFR.
I could also turn around what you said and claim tunneling is a skill-issue from the Killer. Why do they have to resort to this strategy instead of showcasing their skill? But I won't.😉
Indeed, my bad.
Bodyblocking gives more time. DS is good if the user picks a spot to go down where she can reach a strong pallet or window from. OTR is great - it's a free health-state before the killer realizes it's in play, and it's even better after that. Hitting right off hook means the killer has to virtually face-camp, so gens aren't pressured and survivors can get great value from optimally timing the unhook.
There are also Distortion and Dead Hard providing great value for a tunnel-target.
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@Venusa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3533811#Comment_3533811
I think the difference is tunneling early on denies the survivor to play the game. Also there's no playing around tunneling unfortunately. If a killer wants to tunnel someone out of the game they'll be out of the game eventually unless the killer is a bot. The game is designed for the killer to catch up to the survivor at some point.
Still I'm not saying this "strategy" should be taken away from the killer but it shouldn't be the norm either.
Tunneling is not an instant "I-win" button. A few posts above even you acknowledged that if an unskilled killer does it, he'll get destroyed.
For the record, the counterplay is body-blocking, saves, optimal timing for unhooks, running interference so killer loses the target, doing gens, using anti-tunnel perks. You may not save the mark from the sacrifice, but you can make it cost 3-4 gens.
I could turn around what you said, and claim getting tunneled is a skill-issue from the survivor team, but I wouldn't generalize like that. These things always boil down to the efficiency-difference of the two sides. But if survivors convince themselves that tunneling can't be played around, they set a boundary for themselves they won't be able to surpass.
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@EvilSerje said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3533402#Comment_3533402
Sure, but look what comes along with the tunneling:
- It completely stomps only casual teams. Strong teams will wipe floor with tunneler.
- Killer doesn't learn how to apply pressure and with effortless wins is sent to high MMR with zero skill, where he's getting destroyed.
- That both destroys fun and cultivate frustration for casual teams and tunneler (camper has exactly same issues).
So I would call it a flaw. A tool is not supposed to work only on uncoordinated casual teams.
Isn't this true for every strong tool in dbd? We could say the same of Pinhead's Box, Sadako's Condemn, full-gen builds, Nurse as a whole, etc. This game is full of tools that destroy people who can't play around them, while only a minor inconvenience to those who can.
Tunneling is just another strong tool - the only difference seems to be that a notably high percentage of players seem to think that it's a strategy that should be eliminated / heavily nerfed instead of learning to play around it like we do with any other strong tool.
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In other words...
NERF PIG!
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1, 3, 4, 2
I love all of them, but the pacing of 1 and that twisted colony on Fury 161 in 3 are my favorite parts.
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C'mon, everyone knows Predators are very sportsmanlike hunters that only use their heat-seeking plasma-cannons and other high-tech gadgets against armed prey and when they feel like it. They'll probably 8-hook everyone before taking trophies unless survivors stun him, do a gen, use a flashlight, bodyblock, teabag, point, have Exhaustion or Endurance perks, dress funny or outnumber him.
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Just tested it. The change is quite substantial and disorienting. Not sure why was it needed, the chains weren't too strong to begin with.
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@ShinyDiamond said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3528074#Comment_3528074
How should I climb in the MMR when I die very game? I thought the MMR only increases if you are escape wich...yeah not happens that often. Didn't escape this week at all. So I think you are wrong.
And yeah no. Camping/Tunneling are basically the definition of "Ungh I don't wanna learn to play the game normally as killer so I just play as scummy as I can" Even a lot of Content Creators already proofed that you don't need to tunnel/camp to get kills.
The only time I'm fine with camping/tunneling is when there are only 1-2 Gens left or Endgame is on. Then I can totally understand this and I have no problem with this.
But If you tunnel/camp at 5 Gens then you just bad and want easy wins at the cost of 4 other people wich is... yeah well it says a lot about people.
Yeah, highly skilled players with many thousands of hours may be able to consistently win in the open queue with low-tier killers (not that a few trials they display convinces me about that, but I'm not their target audience). But you are talking about mid-mmr. People tunnel and camp there.
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Sounds like you are just climbing. Camping are tunneling are tactics. The better you are, the more you'll see of them. Such is the law of the Mmrntity.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3527342#Comment_3527342
If there are an unhooked survivor and a healthy survivor in front of you, both will take 2 hits to down, but
- Unhooked survivor will lose that "health" state in 10sec. The healthy does not.
- Hitting unhooked survivor leaving them Deep wound. Hitting healthy one leaving injured. Looping a Deep wound is easier then Injured because of the blood overlay.
Even if the timer increased more, the benefit of chasing after unhooked survivor still more than healthy one.
This analysis only ignores the fact that eliminating a survivor with your first three hooks results in 33% global gen-slowdown for the rest of the trial, as only two players will do gens instead of three while you personally occupy the last one. This is stronger than any slowdown perk, with a not terribly hard activation requirement, and it doesn't even take a slot.
It also tremendously decreases the team's unhooking efficiency, as only two can go for the following unhooks, making it much easier to secure the second kill through proxy-camping.
EDIT: Nevermind, I'm dumb. I keep misunderstanding you when we're making the same point.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3526146#Comment_3526146
5sec BT didnt solve the problem, the only way to make it better is increase the BT time, there is no alternative way unless hook spawn to another place, which is alot powerful and break the core mechanic
The problem of Gen kicking is not about the regression, its about Gen tap. Increase to 5% (instant 4.5sec then passively regress more can be strong, but its another story) but it still not solve the Gen tap. If they tap mid chase, either you let them make distance and kick, or leave Gen to continue chase.
Did 10 sec BT solve the problem? I still keep hearing about people being tunneled. I even do it myself after counting to 10. Maybe it should be 15 sec? Or we'd just hit through it in that case?
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As a Clown main, I'm really interested in what sort of answers will I see here.
The actual hints I can think of make me look like a snarky basterd: Do gens, pre-drop immediately, do gens, hold 'w' when he's reloading, do gens, don't think shack is safe, do gens, run OTR, don't be the first one he spots, and do gens. If someone is on a corner-hook, consider him facecamped, no matter how far the Clown is. Unhook in pairs. When unhooked, break line of sight and get as much distance as humanly possible. Also hope your teammates are all doing gens.
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Laugh along!
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Note that not caring about winning or losing is already pretty well rewarded. Someone who aims to get 8 hooks before kills will get very good BP-score and Grade progression even when multiple survivors escape. An efficient tunneler & proxy-camper will have a hard time to get higher grade pips and exceptional BP even with 3-4k. Also keep in mind that because of the nature of matchmaking, the first kind of killer will get considerably less efficient teams on average, so he'll have an easier time getting those good BP-scores.
I think this is a very good thing - it incentivizes playing in a manner that's more enjoyable for everyone instead of what our gamer instinct suggests us.
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It should be a 0v4 mode - survivors just die from accidents during the trial.
It could help queue times!
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I'm convinced this entire thread is a devious killer mastermind's plot to make survivors run No Mither. I approve!
'Oh noez, my Corrupt gets disabled all the time in this unbearable No Mither meta! Every team is running it in high mmr, please nerf!'
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@Caiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3526196#Comment_3526196
I get destroyed in 5 minutes, barely get to play the game, and therefore have very little enjoyment.
Conspiracy theory: matchmaking works
Your mmr is calibrated to full-meta sweating, so naturally you face teams who leave in 5 minutes. Play causally with perks you enjoy, and you'll start to face teams who do gens in 10 minutes. Just don't stomp them too hard, or you'll find yourself back when you started.
Also don't tell the method of accessing the casual queue to anyone, this is secret!
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@Caiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3526106#Comment_3526106
Fun is the most important reward of any game. And like I said, there isn't much reward. I'd love to play more casually, run more funny perks and builds, but I feel like I'm punished for taking a single step outside of the meta if I try. And I don't find the meta very enjoyable. Not to mention people's rotten attitudes bringing the whole experience down.
Drop the silly meta already! You realize it's not fun, you realize fun is the most important, so how exactly are you punished when you play with fun stuff you enjoy?
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Isn't it the free-to-play weekend?
Lead them into battle!
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Claustrophobia.
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If you want to discorage tunneling even better than old DS did before, run OTR!
-a tunneler
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I'd allow survivors to teabag in the lobby.
I can't imagine how they missed such a crucial feature for 7 years.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3524761#Comment_3524761
Do you think it results into a noticeable Kill rate reduction?
Who knows? We only see a tiny portion of the trials, in the pretty narrow mmr-range we are at.
I assume it should have an impact... but we adapt. If the rate of noed use and hard-tunneling did increase as some claim, it could be a result of the grab-removal. I definitely try to take at least one kill before gens get completed, as any decent trio can save against an m1 killer with no relevant perks. If a duo goes for the save, things get exciting as that can have all sorts of results. The occasional solo-attempts tend to result in a trade at best.
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Even though it costs me kills, I actually like it - it makes guarding the hook a more involved process.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
Idk I get on quite well with clown. And he has some very interesting addon builds. One I've been messing around with a lot recently is the invigoration aura read one. aura rea
I wouldn't say he's an A tier killer, and I'd imagine he gets ruined by made for this. But wouldn't say he's that weak.
Oh yeah, Cigar Box is damn addictive, but... Clown ruined by Made for This? You mean the killer who gives himself 10% Haste while giving survivors 15% Hindered (19% with Bleach)? The toughest part is the 6s Endurance you never expect because MFT users go down like anybody else.
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MFT appeared in the Shrine. I bet the killers are hiding under a rock. :P
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3523180#Comment_3523180
Is that the asian guy I keep hearing about that says clown is A tier?
And has the games to back it up?
Nope. People may know him as 'The Clown Guide Guy' after OTZ made some videos of his methods.
Though I'd be interested in this asian fellow too.
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@WaveyTrey said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3522945#Comment_3522945
I was like “good riddance”. People out here really thinking The Clown is a good killer in the “right hands”. Anything The Clown can do another killer will outperform him in every way. Especially in the right hands. 💀
Sooo.. have you seen an Arinad stream before?
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You guys use a perk for that? What's wrong with slugging and tunneling?
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3% speed is indeed strong, but we can manage. But why the 6s Endurance effect on top of it? It's like two perks in one. 1.5 perks if we want to be generous.
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I'm hyped, but I'm not going to buy instantly - mainly for I have a big enough backlog of killers I want to play decently, and there's more improving to do with my main. I'm not highly interested in the perks either.
I'll grab it when it's on discount.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3522184#Comment_3522184
Pretty obvious slippery slope fallacy, there.
So is assuming that just because some SWFs can always reliably convey the location of every team-member, the average group of friends can also do that.
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I spent 1200 killer-hours playing causally, only ever killing those I could easily catch. Some would say I was nice and fair killer. It's a good way to train in the basics. There's a lot.
Once I stopped facing survivors who could loop me or deny my hooks, I went full sweaty. Now I play nasty and I play meta. Mainly to face groups who can still school me. I still gladly throw a match when I meet an excellent runner who knows my tricks.
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Max graphics, no filters.
I'm not some scrub to cheat just because it's allowed.
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I like to chase people.
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Dunno, I could see the point in stating that Ludo and Football are completely different games, but doing the same for two asymmetrical online murder-tag games doesn't sound like a very good argument to me. But one is definitely not the other, that's for sure.
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@camping_site said:
M1 killers require good strategy and skill in the meantime don’t guarantee 4k. Consider it hard mode.
Exactly! I don't need buffs, I need more practice.
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It actually replaced Bamboozle on my Bubba - vaulting windows is such a slog, closing all windows for 2.5 minutes every trial feels much more practical. Especially since it's linked to gen-completion, and that's when survivors rotate.
I had most success with it on Knight though, as it often grants the goons surprise-hits.
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@AssortedSorting said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3519752#Comment_3519752
Then it’s merely flavor that will piss of the Killers for “getting nerfed”.
I disagree. It'll eliminate (or heavily punish) facecamping - a rather dull and not very efficient, but rightfully disliked practice. It wont affect the highly interactive and very efficient macro-approach often referred as 'hard tunneling'. I'm personally very happy for that, as it's a pretty fun playstyle, especially once you start to regularly face groups of survivors who know how to play around it instead of giving up as soon as they realize what's happening.
Once the feature goes live, I'll read the lamentations of mediocre killers claiming that "killer got nerfed" with the same glee I'll feel about the survivor complaints that the anti-facecamp feature only eliminated facecamping, and they are still subject to proxy-camping and tunneling. I'll have a hard time resisting to point out their "skill issue" in both of these cases.
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@AssortedSorting said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3519743#Comment_3519743
How do you know you’re not in the zones, will there be an indicator? You for certain will be for a little bit right after Hooking the survivor, will there be a grace period, or should you play hotfoot?
And how would you then address the resulting complaints of getting camped by blights or nurses who just tunnel off hook, or Killers who return to the hook periodically once they see a survivor coming with the understanding that the buildup is now slowed?
I hope killers will have an indicator. But we'll be fine without it. They said the anti-facecamp feature will have a 16m range - exactly the same as Kindred. Any decent camper is very familiar with that distance anyways.
The returning to the hook variation is not facecamping. That's tunneling and proxy-camping. The anti-facecamp feature isn't meant to eliminate those strategies.
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@SlowLoris said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3519691#Comment_3519691
You are still able to stealth just fine with my filters. I did not increase the BRIGHTNESS on those maps. I lowered the shadows setting in the .ini file, which is the same as playing on Low Settings, I just like how pretty it looks on Ultra. I cannot play the game with the Ultra shadows, I literally cannot form depth perception from being almost blind in my right eye.
Why would streamers get banned for using filters when they are white listed by BHVR?
I get your annoyance with EQ, it's frustrating. There is unfortunately nothing that can be done about it.
Filters like mine are 100% doable by playing on low settings and adjusting your contrast/brightness/hue on your monitor/tv. It is available to everyone. I did not add some special filter to help me cheat.
I'm happy you have perfect vision, but the game as it stands is much too blurry by default for me to play it. Some of the color palletes Borgo/Eyrie are so flat/one sided that it basically looks like a FLAT image to me, because of my vision problems.
If you were unable to do these things, I might agree, but my filters can literally be done on any platform if playing on low settings as soon as the ability to turn AA comes out on Alien release. I just have a hot key, so I can change between 3 profiles for what accentuates the map the best / makes it look more cinematic.
I do not increase my brightness on low settings so I can see people in bushes, etc. You can still easily stealth. My Macmillan pictures are 100% evidence that there is nothing different, except the hue/color saturation/sharpness. If they were "stealthing with my filters off, I'd have still seen them, but I'd have to be squinting, because of my vision, which would lead to a migraine. If you still don't believe me, I will load the same map up and get a bot to stealth to show you that I can still see them just the same.
I see the exact same thing on my monitor as you posted as vanilla images. I see a lot better with the filters you use.
I'm happy that you have perfect vision and using these filters provides you no advantage - it would provide a massive advantage for me, and I feel I'm not alone in this regard.
I'm aware that using such filters are allowed. I'm just asking why, and adding my two cents: I think they shouldn't be.