Crowman
Crowman
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@TheArbiter said:
Yeah not sure why Twins is getting tweaked AGAIN, when Freddy is in a wayyyyyyy worse state
The original update to Twins got pulled with a few number adjustments going live. Likely this is just the v2 of the original update now that they had more time to work on it.
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The killers on the roadmap are listed as "Tweaks" which a dev said in the thread a tweak is nothing more than just minor adjustments. Would you really be happy if Freddy got a few number adjustments like Doctor or Nemesis on the upcoming patch?
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@Brutha said:
Disappointment as always for people waiting for a Freddy update (Me)
Important to note, all the killer on the roadmap are listed as tweaks which given the dev explanation means minor adjustments to their kit without changing much.
I think you would be more disappointed if Freddy was just getting minor tweaks compared to a larger update.
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What's weird to me is that somehow things would be balanced according to OP if half the killers received massive buffs and 15 survivor perks that see no use got minor number buffs. Since the "count" would be equal.
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@legiondoctor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771822#Comment_3771822
No its 3 causw nemesis dredge and doctor got buffed. You cant just say all killers gor those buffs cause legion don't have static blast
Nemsis Dredge and Doctor didn't get a singular change. They each got several different changes. If you want to count the quantity you need to actually count the individual number of changes.
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There's 14 total listed killer changes.
There's 10 total listed survivor perk changes.
Counting the quantity of buffs is a pointless task, because most of the survivor perk changes won't change much about the perk. Diversion and Deception will still be fun perks that may work once or twice until the killer stops falling for it. Dance With Me now works better with Quick and Quiet as they now have the same CD. The trap perks might get an additional use in a match with their lower activation charge.
The killer changes are going to be more impactful to the people who want to play those killers rather than the handful of minor survivor perks getting small buffs.
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@Backmon said:
You forget to mention only survivors perks getting buffed including annoying blast mine
The survivor perk buffs won't change anything. The shorter charge time of the trap perks won't mean much since you still have to wait for the trap to expire or trigger before you can charge it again.
Diversion having a lower activation requirement doesn't make it stronger since a killer will quickly figure out diversion is being used.
Deception has a similiar issue to Diversion where it doesn't do much once the killer figures out you have it.
Dance With Me cooldown now lines up with Quick and Quiet and is a perk you ultimately only run in combination of other vaulting perks.
The only notable perk buff is Flashbang, because it means an extra flashbang could be in play.
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I don't think it'll solve what people think it'll solve.
Survivors going for immediate saves or hiding around the hook waiting for the killer to leave will still have the same end result.
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Given that none of the killers listed are even that strong, I don't think they really need any nerfs.
We can use Nightlight's stats https://nightlight.gg/killers/ which may not be perfectly accurately are generally close enough:
Xeno: 52% KR
Demo: 52% KR
Deathslinger: 54% KR
Nemesis: 51% KR
PH: 52% KR
I don't think we should be nerfing killers over your personal experience.
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I don't think what they do will matter. People will find things to complain about and refuse to play against her, because it's never been about her strength and BHVR isn't going to suddenly remove her drones making her a completely different killer.
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The gen count didn't double and gen repair times were reduced. Ultimately the mode is survivor sided, but it's way more influenced by the terrible matchmaking that plagues normal solo queue, but now for 8 survivors.
Plus it's also easier for 2 strong killer players to duo together than it is for a full 8 man team.
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I don't think the queue issues of 2v8 have anything to do with the lack of desire to play survivor. I think it's more that there's novelty in being able to queue with a friend on the killer role something that was never possible before.
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Simce there's so many survivors in 2v8, it's not really an issue for the killers to constantly get into new chases especially with the basekit aura reading.
It's a different mode so it'll have different balance.
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@Atrushan88 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3770099#Comment_3770099
You could, because one could assume that the reason it doesn't work with calm spirit is because the scream is blocked, signifying that the scream, is the trigger for the aura read. Hardened prevents the scream AND gives aura reading, therefore, it has no such excuse. Point being, this is the case of either a bug, or something not being documented in a perk description, and I think it's more the case of it being a bug, because it's just not reasonable to not have a description signifying it won't work with a perk that could ONLY have a valuable use with 2 survivor perks, otherwise making it entirely rely on the killer's loadout. If Hardened prevents the scream, Hardened should show auras. If the scream isn't prevented, Scene Partner should work. Neither of these is the case and there's no REASONABLE explanation, given the descriptions of both perks, that the half of one perk that actually works doesn't trigger it's secondary effect.
Scene Partner is disabled when you have an effect that prevents screams active. It's been like this since the perk came out and perk tried it with Calm Spirit.
Hardened is simply not preventing a scream, it's disabling a perk.
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@Atrushan88 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3770083#Comment_3770083
And it isn't documented in it's description. You can make the excuse for Calm Spirit not activating, because it's only job is literally to suppress screams. Hardened, however does not only suppress screams, but activates it's own aura reading. That would make this a bug, until either the description changes or something is changed.
You can't make an excuse for Calm Spirit, because it works the same for both scream blocking perks. The perk does not activate due to the other perks being equipped so there's no scream to block for Hardened's aura reading.
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@Atrushan88 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3770034#Comment_3770034
The scream from Scene Partner being required to see the aura, is plausible, not stated, but plausible. The only way to figure that out is to run them together yourself and test. That said, the scream being prevented, is that scream being suppressed. Meaning HARDENED should show the aura. Being hit or hooked doesn't give any relative information. You get no value out of either of those.
The perk doesn't activate at all when you have something blocking your ability to scream. It's been like this since Calm Spirit.
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@Atrushan88 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3764796#Comment_3764796
This is not stated in Scene Partner's description, and the scream IS suppressed. That's exactly what the word "suppress" means. The descriptions need to be changed or the perks need to work together. One or the other. I tested this out myself, in the end, neither perk works and I'm sure anyone else who tried this would be confused as well. ONE of the perks should work, because both are stated in their description in a way that would mean ONE of them would at least work. If a scream isn't suppressed, scene partner should show the killer's aura. If a scream IS suppressed(like it is with this perk combo), Hardened should work.
Likely what you say is true, that the game checks to see if you can scream, and if you can't, the perk just doesn't activate any of it's abilities at all, making it completely useless, to prevent Calm Spirit from working, but Calm Spirit ONLY suppresses screams, so it makes sense that it wouldn't work together, if the screaming is what triggers the aura read, but the aura read from HARDENED should trigger in the case of Hardened, because both have aura reading, and there is only one other way to trigger yourself to scream, being Dramaturgy(and I've heard the aura read also doesn't work from that), making Hardened a useless perk unless the KILLER brings specific things. Hardened has a difficult enough time getting triggered to begin with, needing one of 5 totems to not be cleansed, and for you to find it, as well as 1 of 3(?) chests to not be opened in the same match. It at least requires enough setup for this perk combo to be allowed, especially considering without it, there's no build you can really put Hardened in.
It's worked like this since Calm Spirit. If Scene Partner didn't require you to be able to scream then you could use Calm Spirit to block the screaming and still see the aura from the perk.
Calm Spirit and an activated Hardened simply prevent Scene Partner from being able to activate in the first place.
Also Hardened will block screams from being hit or hooked so it doesn't require the killer to bring certain things to get some value from it.
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Fundamentally with how the 2v8 rules are set up, the killers are at a massive disadvantage as gen times were shortened and gens needed to complete weren't doubled alongside everything else.
The problem is that it's far harder for the game to match 8 survivors of equal skill when the game already struggles doing that with 4 survivors.
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A lot of killers are likely duoing since it's the first time you can do that.
Plus you can't duplicate killers and there's only 5 to pick from. So if you want to play a killer that many others are queueing for, you are going to be waiting longer.
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@TheArbiter said:
There are two takeaways I have so far:
Killers teaming up is a bad idea
Trapper is surprisingly good in this mode as he can quickly snowball more effectively with survivors being less conscious of checking for traps
The nurse queue times are probably quick, because there's likely less people queueing up as nurse since you can't have duplicate killers.
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If you want to balance the game around hooks, then survivors should get multiple hook states upon hook if too many gens are completed.
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The perk isn't the easiest to pull off and most games you are likely only seeing it activate once as is.
Hardly needs a nerf when it's not even a high usage perk.
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@CaulDrohn said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3763698#Comment_3763698
But Scene partner does not trigger BECAUSE Hardened suppresses it. And wenn Hardened suppresses a scream, you see the aura. It just doesn't add up.
If the perks stay the way they are, Hardened should at least get its description adjusted to "suppress KILLER INFLICTED screams". The scream effect of Dramaturgy does also not work with Hardened, so ..
No screams are being suppressed. Scene Partner checks if the survivor is capable of screaming before it activates. Since it doesn't activate, no scream happens for hardened to block it.
This is the same reason why Calm Spirit and Scene Partner don't allow the survivor to see the killer's aura without screaming.
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@sickdeathfiend said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3763013#Comment_3763013
Yeah bro, just ban all your paying customers bro, dont fix the game bro heck no, just ban half the playerbase yeah thats the ticket!
Banning players making the game experience worse for other players improves the game experience.
By your logic we shouldn't ban cheaters either.
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Just organize custom games where people agree to arbitrary rules you want.
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@Yggleif said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3763903#Comment_3763903
But why doesn't it work the other way? By your logic the best survivors should also be able to get 1k win streaks but they can't get anywhere close.
First, it's much harder to reliably get 4 people to be available to play at the same time consistently. Whereas a killer doesn't need to depend on other people being available.
Second, there's better chance of getting a teammate who is lower skilled as there's 3 other slots to fill.
Not to mention a lot of people who try to introduce their friends to the game often play with them which just forces these new players into higher skilled lobbies. So a duo in your lobby could be a 2K hour survivor playing with his 20 hour friend.
There's just a lot more that has to good right for a group of 4 survivors to keep a win streak compared to a killer who can play when it's convenient for them.
Plus killers can pick and choose when they play as well meaning they can pick ideal hours to continue their streak.
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@Yggleif said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3763900#Comment_3763900
Yeah no this simply isn't true when we have people taking killers like Nurse or Blight on 1k+ win streaks and the highest survivor win streak is only a few hundred it's very clear the killer has more control in public matches especially in the soloQ environment.
If matchmaking was much tighter on matching killers to survivors of equal skill, you wouldn't be seeing these streaks. But everytime BHVR tightens matchmaking, people complaint and it ultimately gets reverted.
Ultimately as long as BHVR allows the best of the best killers to have quick matchmaking times, they will get matched with survivors of significantly lower skill them often.
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@Yggleif said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3763896#Comment_3763896
In a game against a SWF? Sure that all makes sense but in soloQ where there's no coordination and you have no control who is on your team? I mean maybe not 5 gens so much but certainly 4 gens left it happens and that's not a significant difference from 5 gens. DBD isn't really the type of game where you can carry by yourself if one person makes a really bad mistake it screws everyone no matter how good they are.
Good soloq survivors are very capable of bringing the killer on long chases and getting gens done. The problem you are conflating with soloq is matchmaking prioritizing queue times rather than skill. Which leads back to the problem you are having being a skill issue rather than an actual issue.
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@Yggleif said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3763892#Comment_3763892
- I addressed survivors killing themselves on hook in my second post where I actually think this could be a remedy to that problem.
- I don't think that's equal as I don't really think tunneling someone out at 5 gens is "playing well" when if you're playing a strong killer (nurse/blight/spirit) and the survivors don't bring the right perks you should be able to tunnel someone out at 4-5 gens almost every game if you really wanted to.
If a killer is able to kill a survivor without a single gen getting done, then the survivors messed up. There's 3 survivors who can work on gens and enough resources at the start of the game that the first survivor found should be able to lead on a chase long enough for a gen to pop.
Then in order to tunnel out the first survivor hooked, the killer has to wait for the survivor to be unhooked which a survivor has 60 seconds before going into next state. There's little reason for a survivor to be rushing for an unhook unless the game is already going downhill with multiple survivors down at once.
5 gen tunneling isn't an actual problem as it's just a skill issue.
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Because survivors have never killed themselves in the hook.
Even if we lived in a perfect world where people weren't prone to rage quit over any tiny inconvenience, this would be a terrible way to implement an anti tunnel mechanic to the game.
Largely in that it punishes the killer for completing their own objective. Imagine if we had the opposite where if the Killer didn't have enough hooks when survivors completed gens, they didn't get completed as an anti gen rush mechanic. People would rightfully be upset that they are being published for playing better.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3763717#Comment_3763717
I don't really see the correlation.
No one should be forced to play out matches that has a SWF group.
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Honestly if the idea that you can't force people to play out a match and that's why we can't do anything about hook suicides, then the pre-game lobby should show SWF groups so players can decide before the match begins if they want to play it out.
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@hermitkermit said:
While I don't support players quitting early because it messes up other people's games, it's really strange to me that this behavior is often always dismissed as, "Oh, those players are just entitled babies" The fact that early quitting is such a common issue should be a cause for concern. Disregarding it as the actions of nothing but entitled players is a clever way to ignore why people do it, and can be used as a scapegoat instead of focusing/discussing the possible underlying issues that are leaving so many players unhappy.
And again, I don't condone quitting early, but this community often insists that you should play the game however you want, regardless of how it affects others. I'll add as well that it doesn't help that when people react this way and essentially "boycott" the game, it does get BHVRs attention, and changes are usually made in response. This almost "rewards" the behavior because if enough people are unhappy, BHVR takes notice and changes things, even if those changes aren't well received or later reversed - it still worked.
I think stats like this are very interesting. It does kind of make you think about what you believe is fair. Like how many games should anyone lose before eventually you don't blame them for just giving up? Or better yet how many losses should one be expected to have without feeling like giving up?
Idk. I gues that's an impossible question becaue everyone is so differeent.
I'm unsure how to feel about this all lol
If killers had their own way to "suicide on hook", you would see plenty of killers who quit over losing gens before a single hook, or a hex gets cleansed early in the game, etc.
Rage quitting is an issue of people being babies about how the game is going. There's no deeper meaning to it.
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This isn't a bug. Scene Partner doesn't trigger if you have an effect that blocks your ability to scream. Since the perk never triggers, Hardened never triggers as a result.
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Currently if you have an effect that prevents screaming, you can't trigger scene partner because screaming is a requirement for the aura reading. Since Scene Partner never activates, hardened didn't block a scream to aura read either.
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@Hex_Ignored said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3762999#Comment_3762999
How do you verify that they intentionally ran at the killer to die and weren't just confused/unlucky/tunneled/bad at the game/etc.? This is exactly what people mean when they say there are other ways to leave the game that can't reliably be tracked by a system.
It's pretty obvious when the unhooked survivors runs at the killer stopping just in front of them and then emoting at the killer to hit/kill them. People can open support tickets to supply videos when needed. Though would be nice for in-game reports to be better in general without needing to go through the support ticket system.
At some point, if you are spending so much energy trying to work around systems to not get punished for rage quitting, then maybe you should be playing a different game.
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Survivors anyway have been given tools to deal with these strategies. At some point, it's a player issue not a game one.
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@Legendary_deedee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3761291#Comment_3761291
Somebody is in denial. A killer can leave chase at any time. Majority of the time if you pick that item they’re coming to that location. Common sense. Y’all mad because this perk going to get nerf.
If a killer is dropping a chase to go after you, you have forced them to waste time as the previous chase didn't end with a down. A killer cannot afford to keep dropping every chase to go after every survivor who picks up their item.
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@GolbezGarlandGabrant said:
Wishful thinking but I would want it that way until they decide to update it🤣
Haddonfield killswitch til rework only happened, because the rework map was planned to be coming out the next major patch. AFAIK, there's no timeline for when the Swamp realm will be reworked so I wouldn't put any hopes of swamp being killswitched longer than a couple hotfixes.
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Even if you removed the hand wiping from Hag's traps, it wouldn't actual make it any harder to remove her traps.
With changes to her trigger range, it's easy enough for survivors to trigger traps and run away being completely safe from Hag's lunge out of teleport. This is way more efficient than hand wiping or flashlight burning.
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I don' t think the flashlight change is what hurt hag.
There was another change where they increase the trigger range of her traps and her trigger range addons got changed. I believe unless you run double trigger range addons, any survivor who runs away from the trap upon triggering it is safe from Hag lunge out of teleport.
And the biggest threat to Hag traps was always survivors triggering them when she couldn't respond and it became even safer to do so.
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It's really funny how a perk that requires a killer to dedicate another perk (or addon on some specific killers) to be even remotely usable and doesn't provide any gen blocking or regression effect is so problematic.
Still I fully expect it to be gutted, because why bother learning how to play against something when you can just complain endlessly about it.
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I feel like people love to exaggerated hook spawns. There are a couple of situations where two hooks may be right near each other, but in most cases if a killer walks to one hook and it gets sabo'd in front of them they won't make it to another hook without the survivor breaking free.
But hooks need to be plentiful on the map, because it's the main objective of the killer.
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Unknown is a killer where the more a survivor understands the killer power, the weaker he becomes as it's not a skill issue you can improve against.
Survivors who remove his hallucinations and path correctly around walls will heavily limit the strength of the unknown power while there's not much unknown can do in response.
I don't think he's really a great killer as being good against survivor who don't know how to play against your power is every killer.
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I don't think there's anything wrong with the numbers. Ultimately a perk that removes charges from a gen can't be good due to the nature of the 4v1.
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@Paternalpark said:
Specialist should be at 4 charges. 6 is excessive if you bring purple coin offerings no?
Don't forget you get charges from scavenging a chest via a perk like Appraisal as well.
Ultimately if someone wants to run around to find 3-6 chests to open and/or scavenge for a slightly better BNP, power to them. But this perk conflicts with other survivors running the perk unless they also dedicate an extra slot to appraisal. Ultimately I don't think this perk will see much use after a few weeks of people messing around.
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I guess it's time to take advantage of Iron Will until the devs inevitably nerf it again.
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If you want to play against bots you have customs.
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3758147#Comment_3758147
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/YA0NAWLUFQ0Z/capture-png.png
The devs HAVE defined a win. That's where the whole "a 3K is a win for the killer in the system" came from. I believe it was in their MMR live stream iirc.
That's why a win is defined in the wiki as a 3-4K as I posted earlier.
DBD is not sports.
I haven't seen the devs say they consider a draw "half a win" but if there's any clear clarification on that aspect I would like to see it. The vast majority of the community considers a 3K+ a win based on what the devs have stated. If that was incorrect I would expect they would have said something by now.
A dev did say DBD is like Hockey.
The problem is DBD isn't symmetrical so these comparisons always ignore the fact that DBD has unequal sides. A survivor can win by escaping via the exit gate and the killer can win by getting a 3K. On the other hand a killer can lose by getting a 1K and the survivor killed will also lose.
Ultimately trying to balance around a winrate is a complicated mess due to the fact that players can individually win or lose and if the devs want the killers to have an edge or the survivor then balancing around 60% kill rate is perfectly fine.
It's always funny to me how people complain how DBD is too competitive and it should be more casual, but everyone always wants the devs to treat DBD as a competitive game that needs to be completely balanced.
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@Kjøttkaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3757746#Comment_3757746
Same with perks that made gen kick meta happen but now they add anti 3gen and killer reworksz they still haven't reverted it back
At least the gen kick perks got nerfed before the system was introduced.
The anti camp system was put out and then stbfl got hit.