CrassardStreams
CrassardStreams
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Okay, focusing on gens. A single survivor can do a gen in 80 seconds. 2 can do one in like.. 42 seconds? anyway lets do some really basic math.
So before you even have a chance to cross the map as killer, at least 1, maybe 2 gens are finished (or close enough)
Each chase can easily eat up 30 seconds and you have to hook survivors 12 times to win.
Assuming our chases are short each time (15-20 seconds) that means whoever isn't rescuing or hooked can finish a gen every second chase. You need 12 of those chases they only need 5 gens.
That means you have enough time to chase each survivor twice before it's game over - assuming you could even find them in the first place, and they didn't finish 2 gens before you even got your first chase. That's why they're broken.
That's without accounting for SWF, Toolboxes, perks that increase repair speed like Resilience or Prove They Self and Leader and so on. Also doesn't account for the insane number of "second chance" perks or "chase perks" survivors have available to make those chase times much longer - or running into god windows/pallets that make it basically pointless to chase survivors because they'll all run to that same spot and end the chase meaning you're only pressure is trying to hit them on gens which.. woe is you if you're an m1 killer.
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lol there's a pinned topic for this.. and yes they are broken. Tonnes of maps also have god windows/pallets, nigh infinite loops, nevermind all the other ######### survivors can use.
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I play a lot of Pig and Huntress, started with Nurse.
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Yeah gens can pop just in the time it takes to walk across the map nevermind find and down someone and god forbid you picked the wrong gen to walk to so 2-3 more pop.
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I mean all they do is wait now anyway, 15-30 seconds is a crazy long time for killers. That's almost half a gen (which there are only 5) that you're wasting. You have to get 12 hooks to kill the 4 survivors, they can dance around 5 gens and easily control the pace of the game.
Any time your standing still or "waiting" on something you're shooting yourself in the foot.
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Right now regressing is basically pointless without pop goes the weasel or ruin. At the very least I'd like to see the rate increased because it's pretty much worthless as is, and if you run those perks cool but it kinda sucks paying a perk slot tax to play killer beyond yellow ranks because 2-3 gens pop by the time you hook 1 or 2 people.
People don't realize it takes 12 hooks for their 5 gens and getting 2 or 3 hooks is easily enough time for a gen.
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Slugging can't be punished? I mean you have no idea where they went after you killed them (fairly often anyway) and your wasting precious time looking for them or whoever might be healing them.
Oh no your crutch second life perk only works once a round god forbid it not hard counter an entire mechanic of the game ._. Stuff like Slugging, Regressing Gens, and yes occasionally camping if you've got half the team hooked are a necessary part of killer and honestly regressing gens could use a buff because right now it's not even worth it without pop goes the weasel
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I'd rather see it have either a shortened duration (like borrowed time, 15-30 seconds) or have it deactivate once you interact with something (other than vaults/pallets)
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Pink mori isn't any more broken than pink addons or items.
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Nobody wants to play killer because BHVR keeps nerfing them and survivors are downright toxic at times. Like idc if you won there's no need to spend the entire EGC teabagging the exit or hatch, or teabag after every pallet, flashlight clicking, etc.. nevermind the insane power disparity between survivor and killer perks on top of being outnumbered and most maps having "god windows" or "god pallets" that any knowledgeable survivor will immediately run to any time ######### hits the fan >_>
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A way for generator speeds to be "adaptable" is to drastically increase regression speed and further reduce the efficiency of multiple survivors working on a gen. Right now kicking a gen doesn't really do anything and it's actually more efficient to give chase since regression is so slow on top of the fact survivors can just split-second tap a gen to stop it.
Lastly, skill checks are insanely easy, downright boring. If we're not reworking the system make failing a skill check much more punishing like -20%
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I prefer new ruin because now it has a dank synergy with Surveillance as long as BHVR doesn't ruin that too.
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I hate being the killer matched with reds since it's not fun for anyone lol.
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DS should just deactivate once you interact with something, it's no longer tunneling if you're sitting there trolling the killer healing right at the hook (or had time to go back to a generator and start repairing or whatever) easy fix. Borrowed Time only lasts 15 seconds and only triggers if they're in your terror radius iirc.
Dead hard is fine, it's like a sprint burst that buys you a hit but only works when you're injured. Risky especially on dedicated servers and plenty of killers will bait it out. Honestly it's the decisive strike + unbreakable that sucks ass because you can't pick them up but you can't slug them either, toss in adrenaline and it's like trying to kill a cat with extra lives ffs.
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I've used it on Nurse and Pig, and it's pretty decent. Counters Iron Will and depending on map and situation you can track someone despite being blinded with a flashlight. (or being crouched as pig with obstacles around)
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If there's something genuinely wrong with a player, report them. Displaying usernames in the lobby for killer would just mean You'd be like "oh that person is a huntress main" or whatever and defeat the purpose of obscuring that info in the first place.
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Yeah I can agree with first injure as long as it doesn't bug out with bs like No Mither.
I'd rather this idea than just making every map super small, but I guess either option works but the spawns for totems and other interactibles should be way more random with better placement.
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To some extent camping is pretty important, early on in the game it can help you snowball by catching the rescuer by surprise with stealth killers. Otherwise the gens get done super fast since 2-3 probably popped before you even hooked the first survivor.
Obviously facecamping is pretty bad for many reasons, and obvious. Same with tunneling, in most circumstances.
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Honestly they could remove the cooldowns and keep the fatigue or even make it longer and she'd be fine. I hate CDs, and the fact more and more killer stuff is "no we can't make it too hard for survivors, better make this okay thing useless by making it have a cooldown" is the trend it seems
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Getting hit because you had bad timing in a pallet is intended, it doesn't stun them until it hits them so if they come from the side it's not leaning on they can buy themselves a split second longer before the stun. A well timed pallet leaves no answer for the killer, outside of some severe connection issues.
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lmfao "slugging is a heavily abused luxury" sure except there's like 3 perks in the game that utterly negate it, and if they have DS you can't really avoid them either.
Not to mention they could just get healed, at least on the hook you get a notification on the where/when they were helped out.
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I like Huntress and Nurse. Pig and Legion share the same mori :/
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Dead Hard is fine, it's really unreliable with Dedicated Servers so most people end up using it to break LoS/a sort of.. sprint burst I guess.
Adrenaline is super cringe, but honestly okay since it rewards them completing the objectives and it's kind of a dead perk until then.
Decisive Strike is really tilting, and kind of broken, but it doesn't hit 'toxic' until you pair it with something like Unbreakable or No Mither so they just can't slug you and have to eat a really long stun.
Decisive Strike shouldn't last a whole minute either make the timer shorter or apply conditions like until you interact with something.
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RBTs and Traps and any killer power reliant on RNG is kinda.. ######### tbh.
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Rancor is laughably easy to counter, it's like budget Object of Obsession for that survivor. Just avoid the killer, and if you do get the gates powered, so what? pop into a locker before the last gen pops or stealth to the door.
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Right now it's absolutely not worth it to kick a gen over chasing. I think making generators regress faster would be a good start - reward the killer for pressuring and playing well rather than just "all gens take X% longer now"
Scott's early game idea has a lot of merit as well, applying a heavy debuff to repair speeds on gens until the first down or until a couple minutes has passed. Survivors can stealth/power through the time or get the game started in full force earlier to cut the killer's prep time short.
The main issue right now is the developers think "giving up" is okay for killers and they should count themselves lucky if they get more than 2 kills a game. That's ######### ridiculous. That's even more stupid than their "We can't make ruin not a hex perk because hag can only have hexes" like what? Balancing the game trumps anything else related to "aesthetic" or design.
It should be equally possible for all survivors to escape or all survivors to die. I'm sure I'm not the only one sick of all the pandering to newbie survivors. You don't pander to newbie sports players or newbies in any other game you expect them to feel rewarded for putting the time in and learning - ie: investing in your game.
Regressing should be a lot more punishing in general imo, seeing as all it takes is a split second to stop it anyway + repairing generators doesn't take any skill and barely takes your attention. I think making the skill checks more difficult or going for a new system that actually requires a bit of attention would be beneficial so people aren't just scanning around constantly not giving any shits about their boring m1 objective.
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I can confirm splinters are appearing in bloodweb and have received multiple just in the past week
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Honestly I like Scott's idea. Survivors don't need something in return for the killers having some time to set up or find someone. They have 4 people and already control most of the game from the outset. Giving some killers time to set their traps or find a survivor means you don't have 2-3 gens popping before you've managed to do anything as killer and you spend the rest of the game just playing whack-a-mole with gens while whoever you're not chasing off a gen is still completing their objectives usually.
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Doesn't mean you lost but it sure is one hell of a head start. The game is not balanced, no amount of feelgood tryhard sentimental ######### is gonna change that.
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Yeah chases are super buggy, making it so it just straight up lasts until first down or hook aside from the timer would be pretty decent.
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By that logic "Huntress or Nurse is OP because they can throw over/blink through loops" thing is theirs require skill, whether it's aim or avoiding a juke only to be straight up fatigued and lose the chase.
Doc doesn't, he's slightly slower for the barely noticeable time it takes to charge the shock, but it's LoS so you don't need to worry about travel time or anything.
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A Doc running Unnerving Presence, Distressing, M&A, Iron Maiden is pretty terrible to go up against, but even if you're not running that "meta" he's gonna end all your loops locking you out of actions if his timing isn't terrible and good lucky avoid him without just.. always running calm spirit which is kinda ######### aside from this new doc fetish everyone has.
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Survivors have all the control in this game, if you're getting camped maybe you were being "toxic" with Unbreakable + Decisive Strike or teabagging/healing at pallets or whatever. Also, patrolling the proximity for rescuers is a valid tactic, face-camping not only isn't because there's a point penalty for staying close to hook, you're not pushing other survivors off gens so you're basically throwing the game anyway if the survivors are smart enough to leave that person for dead.
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@28_stabs said:
No. It was worse, but survivors still can 1v1 killer in 1v4 game.
This. This so much right here. The killer is supposed to be scary and force survivors to work together, and instead they're the butt end of a bad joke running in circles (or abandoning chases before they get too long to find another gen and often repeat the process)
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if you think that makes it hard to use that's a funny joke..
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Yeah, I get that I guess. But she still seems like she needs something and knowing where the boxes are asap vs when it's active doesn't really change much? Either they'll look for them or they won't regardless of aura?
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I've only got a few hundred hours in the game, but yeah. Most games will have survivors clicking flashlights, blinding you on pallet drops and teabagging after pallets and/or at exit gates.
Survivors control the game, they have the power, they dictate the pace by their actions. Killer plays a reactive game (kinda like playing black in chess) and has to seriously overcome the odds and fight for every scrap of "tempo" they can get. It's less about hooking survivors and more about keeping them off gens since they take barely any time compared to what you have to do to win in a round.
Also they seem to love buffing survivors and babying them, and keep handing them tonnes of "second chance" or "save me I ######### up" perks with cooldowns that generally reset once they're hooked (exhaust) and synergies that legitimately break the game (Unbreakable + Decisive Strike + Head On/Adrenaline/take your pick of "lol I can never die")
That being said, the game is still fun when I'm not getting a full team of reds with toolboxes and flashlights or maps and keys.. which sadly is more often than not.
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If there's anything toxic survivors do, it's abusing hitboxes to be invincible clipping into their mate who's on the hook. That ######### is annoying as all hell and brings the game to a halt.
Decisive Strike, Unbreakable, Adrenaline.. Survivors get a tonne of stupid crutch perks I strongly disagree with >_>
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@Fibijean said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1068804#Comment_1068804
I think his idea has potential, but I also agree with you that stealth play needs to be considered. The main flaw I can see in Scott's argument is that he's assuming chases are what makes the game fun to play, for both sides. For a killer, I would generally agree with him, but there are some survivors who actually have the most fun playing stealthily, evading the killer, and doing generators to feel useful. I know because I'm one of them.
Interaction with other players is what makes the game fun, which is why stealth is as fun for some survivors as chases are for others, but it's not fun for the killer if they don't know that they're interacting with the survivors. So the question is, is there a way to (a) adjust this idea so that it's equally rewarding for stealthy players as aggressive ones, and (b) make playing against stealth-inclined survivors less boring for the killer?
So enjoy your stealth play, odds are he's chasing one survivor at a time and if it's not you all the better. If anything this is a good idea because it promote some sort of strategizing. Survivors can chat before a round, killers can't. So you can set up something like a point man (someone who enjoys chases) to purposefully end the early game faster and loop the killer while you guys get gens. This actually opens up so much potential to keep this game fresh and fun going forward.
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Not sure how recent this post is (today? It just says 7:50 pm no date) but I'd suggest watching
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVnWIe-5LcsScott outlies an idea similar to yours, but consistent (just a widespread modifier, mainly)
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@bloodsiren1 said:
When i play as survivor it seems slow, when i play a killer the gens are too fast. Survivors have to realize that gen rushing too fast keeps them from piping.
Plenty of people don't care about the pips and just wanna bully the other side, even if you do pip though have being being rank 4 getting matched with rank 14 killers (or vice versa although it doesn't seem to happen nearly as often)
Apparently their matchmaking doesn't "scale" it's just after 10 minutes it's 10 ranks in either direction. Not like, +1 rank in either direction every minute or anything that would make sense..
One last point while I'm on this forum: It's exceptionally common for 2-3 gens to pop as you're hooking your first survivor. The only chance the killer has usually is to make sure they remaining gens are close together as best as possible to reduce patrol/travel time and maximize intel/positioning. I think Scott's idea goes a long way towards making this game enjoyable for everyone again.
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@ABannedCat said:
While I sympathise with the time pressure placed on killer caused by generator-speed, I also try to see it from the other side.
If survivors weren't able to pump out all 5 generators within 2 minutes, it would mean that in order to win the killer just needs to camp everyone on the hook to death, since the survivors have no meaningful way to punish it. Thus making fast generators a nessecary evil.
Map design, and survivors stacking up 2nd chance perks are more of a problem in my opinion. If you have a big map like Mother's Dwelling or a map littered with zero-counterplay loops like Blood Lodge, there is really nothing the killer can do if survivors are determined to finish the generators. The chasetime and the time it takes for killers to patrol generators is what causes the imbalance in my opinion.
I strongly agree with this, too. Hence why most of my suggestions don't affect base speed. As for stacking Adrenaline, Unbreakable, Sprint Burst/Dead Hard/Lithe, Decisive Strike, etc.. that ######### is equally game breaking as you just wasted however long chasing that person and/or downing them (while gens are getting done) and congrats, you're now even further behind with nothing to show for it and these perks are on just about everyone
With or without those perks though, equally skilled games are over if you can't cluster the last three gens and with the state of the game now? Good luck. Not to mention that gets incredibly stale and feels pretty bad having the game over half way finished often not even 2 or 3 minutes in and that's about the same time to maybe hook each survivor once and you need two more meanwhile they just gotta tap gens around the map avoiding you until they're done.
When you're balancing a game you should always balance it for the skill ceiling, not it's floor. Keep the new user experience in mind sure (this is always a bit of a balancing act) but right now you guys are trashing the game to prevent bambi survivors from ever dealing with consequences (and by extension, learning and feeling as though they're making progress beyond a number on a screen and highly desired perks)
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Quite a few pages here.. I think Scott Jund has it right though. Have a "Starting period" similar to the endgame collapse where generators have a large repair speed debuff applied. This period ends the moment the killer starts chasing a survivor.
It promotes a few things: firstly ideally you have 3 survivors on gens and 1 looping the killer and you cycle out whenever something bad happens like they get hit or end up out of position. Someone's occupying the killer's time at any rate. This means you can kinda send your "front man" out whether they're perked for chases or just 'taking one for the team" thematically.
It also means you don't have 2 or 3 gens "99%" before the killer finds someone because some are really slow or require a lot of time to "set up" ie hag, trapper, huntress is slow but has hatchets.
This benefits everyone Survivors can somewhat strategize and have fun since most of them enjoy the chases anyway (it's kind of the core of the game) and it lets you have way more variety with killers than just "ranged attack, teleport, instadown, or do I just lose." Gives set-up killers time to actually set up without being insanely punished for it.
Throughout the course of any given match, survivors control everything. Their items, what gens and how many on a gen dictate the pace of the game. The killer has all the stress of managing time and delaying objectives and finding the objectives being pursued to begin with.
As for gen repair speed in general I think both the gen speed and toolboxes need to get looked at. As it is right now, if you have survivors and killers of optimal skill - the killer can only win if they succeed at mindgames at a place that isn't "infinite" and the survivors make mistakes like being out of position or taking too long to react.
TLDR: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVnWIe-5Lcs
Make killer fun again instead of constantly buffing survivors and not changing ruin "because hag needs to only have hexes" <- that's not a valid reason to avoid balancing your game >_>
When you have an asymetric challenge, it's typically balanced by numbers and force. right now the killer is definitely on the ######### end of the stick by a pretty wide margin. Everything they do takes time, and their objective is largely time management. Right now survivors have the tools to kill 10+ minutes of the killer's time meanwhile they only need 4 minutes to win.
Gens are definitely too fast when you can finish a gen in the time it takes for mayybe 2 chases between finding the survivor(s) and getting the hook and so on. Even if you hook all 4 survivors in the time it took you do that the other 3 easily finished a gen or got them most of the way done each time so by the time you get them on a hook for a second time around they just go around popping the gens and teabagging the exits. At least more often than not. Toolboxes should just mitigate the penalty for stacking on a gen and not give a bonus at all, the penalty for stacking on a gen should be much higher. The base speed on it's own is probably okay if you get rid of the stupid Brand New Part and stacking with toolboxes bullshit.
Right now if you have a team where someone has object of obsession (or you use rancor, or they have some other fairly consistent way of seeing where you are) the game is just done. You'll have 2 stack on the obsession cycling out a fourth to loop while they stay on the opposite side of the map from whatever chase and finish gens in insanely fast times, even without toolboxes. My point is, regardless of how you do it (toolboxes, stacking with auras, both, talented looping, whatever) survivors have so much more power than killers do throughout a round.
If we don't make the penalty for stacking on a gen much worse and make it so toolbox are mitigation engines instead of game-ending items then make skill checks significantly more difficult as right now it's pretty mindless after your first maaaybe hour in the game. Overcharge is a useless dead perk on anyone but doc because madness makes skillchecks show up in random places and unnerving presence is really strong on him because of that and so on and so on. Make skillchecks actually.. do something so survivors not in a chase actually have something to pay attention to / engage with.
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Nobody else afaik has their stuff show up before it's needed. Whether it's alarm bells, purification pools, or whatever. Pig is the only one that's exposed for who she is and where to counter her from the get go. It really should be baseline
Other than that, she's honestly not that bad. I'd argue we leave it at that for a while and see how it goes and maybe change it from just generators to also end gates being powered..