Coffeecrashing
Coffeecrashing
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@Daniel_Silva04 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3905398#Comment_3905398
I think she meant that this was unintentional and now it's working as the Oni really should be.
And well, if something can't be countered, I think it would be broken, right?
It's an ability that is only available for a limited duration, that is used in combination with a demon dash which is purposely clunky and awkward to use. And there are already some loops were he can't use his demon dash even with pre-nerfed 180s.
There's zero point in playing Oni, if demon mode is going to have so much counterplay, that the killer is often just chasing survivors as an M1 killer while in demon mode.
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3905358#Comment_3905358
It will likely be in the next PTB, we want to be able to ensure it all works as it should first and let players play with it (and against it), before pushing it live, to give us the opportunity to make any tweaks that are required…just to be completely transparent about it.
I don't understand what "works as it should" is supposed to mean. Are survivors intended to be able to avoid 180s simply by looping around an object?
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@BlackRabies said:
It's really unfair the how this killer feels to play against. I've never had problems when a new killer releases as the counter play is transparent and can learn how to deal with them, but Ghoul? I just can't figure it out. His power should not be a instant hit scan should be a projectile like every other killer. It's just too easy to land his power and injure survivors. Sure can't down with his power, but does that really matter when he can close the gap so fast on you? I didn't bought him, but noticed his window between jumps is HUGE from watching streamers. No other killer has a window that big! His power/mobility has too much safety and so little risk to it he really needs something when literally every other killer gets punished for messing up their power. A fatigue, long cooldown, small window between dashes, harder to obtain enrage mode or losses it after hook. Needs something.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3905176#Comment_3905176
His mobility is already insane. He doesnt need to be able to cross the entire map.
Ghoul's cross map mobility is worse then Blight and Billy, and about the same as Dracula.
Even though this killer has fast dashes, Ghoul's dash distance is extremely low, so it's much better at burst movement speed instead of sustained movement speed. And his 3rd dash doesn't slide, which means he's arguably better off not using it for map mobility, unless he has the satchel addon, and even with the satchel addon isn't barely better than just using 2 dashes at a time.
@Spooky13 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3905176#Comment_3905176
This is why I suggested he gets 1 set of Enraged leaps after hooking someone so he can leave the hook. This also means if he wants to return to hook after using them he'll have to do it with his regular leaps which are slower.
1 set of enraged leaps, is still encouraging the killer to camp instead of patrol the map. Ghoul's map mobility revolves around the increased token regeneration speed in enraged mode, much more than having a 3rd leap. And as I just mentioned before, the 3rd leap is kind of garbage at map mobility, because it doesn't slide, so the killer just awkwardly slows down.
Also, his dash speed doesn't get increased in enrage mode.
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When killers hook a survivor, they should be encouraged to leave the hook to find someone else. Forcibly taking away enraged mode when a survivor is hooked, does the exact opposite, and encourages the killer to camp the hooked survivor, because you just took away their increased mobility to patrol the map.
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@Leon_Loves_Cheryl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3904372#Comment_3904372
This cannot happen. It's a concession that had to be made for technical reasons. Refer to my comment above.
Basically, due to travel time mechanics, changing the nature of the hit will either severely nerf the character (which he does not deserve) or just look even weirder from both ends.
The killer is latched onto the survivor with their tentacles. So it wouldn't look as weird if the killer vacuums the survivor back a bit, to make the hit look better. Because if those "behind walls" hit are actually legit, and should stay in the game, then they should look better on the killer and survivor screens.
Or maybe the killer should just be animated better to make the hits look better… For example, if the grab attack should connect, then just have the killer leap around the wall (like a Spider-Man swing), and always land right behind the survivor.
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3904684#Comment_3904684
They globally nerf killer's often via perk nerfs because they happen to be problematic on certain killers. They also added anti facecamp because of how problematic bubba was with it. They also added the 8 regression limit due to mostly skull merchant existing along with other killers with map mobility being able to easily patrol gens.
They nerf all killers globally because of certain killers often. Once the majority of killers all have map mobility (which almost all recent killers have some kind of dash or teleport), even more globally nerfs will come into play in order to try to bring them in line. This always hurts the killers who have no map mobility. When was the last time they released a killer without any kind of map mobility such as dashes, speed ups, or teleports?
BHVR nerfs the M2 killers with the map reworks, because the newer tiles, and increased line of sight breakers, disproportionally affect M2 killers. For example, many of the irregularly shaped loops are purposely designed so that killers like Blight and Billy can't use their M2 power there.
Remember that in the older maps, almost everything was completely flat walls at 90 degree angles, that was super easy for Blight to bump around, or super easy for Billy to curve around. And there were so few line of sight breakers that killers like Huntress and Nurse were much easier to use.
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@rysm said:
Much larger cooldowns are needed too.
I don't like nerfs that are basically "let's make the killer feel more clunky and awful to play as". The killer is supposed to have a fast and high mobility theme. Nerfing the cooldowns just makes that feel worse.
But nerfing things that clearly look bad on the killer's screen (like when the killer's screen shows a grab clearly going through a wall), doesn't make the killer feel more clunky, because the hit never looked good on the killer's screen.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3903598#Comment_3903598
I can't really foresee them completely uncapping it either, as that's probably how they fixed the bug, but turning it up a smidge isn't off the table IMO. It's pretty slow even by controller's normal camera sensitivity standards.
I really don't see that happening. I honestly think the goal was to nerf 360s, and now they're so bad that I'm just not playing Oni anymore.
But most people couldn't 180 consistently before this patch, so there are just too many people that don't understand how big this nerf is, so this isn't going to get enough complaints to change it.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3903576#Comment_3903576
That's what I've been told elsewhere, and I noticed it looked like how the controller turn works when people were messing with it on the PTB.
If that's the case, I'm wondering if they'll increase that static turn rate at all, or uncap it entirely later down the line.
It's unlikely the turn rate will be increased. I'm assuming this was a carefully calculated nerf, so that it gives survivors more counterplay, but…
- 180s are still in the game so it won't get too many killer complaints.
- The MnK 180s are now slow enough that people can't complain that controller players are at a large disadvantage.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I'm curious to hear from any MnK Oni players: Does the new intentional 180 feel different compared to the old? Specifically, do you turn slower than before or the same speed?
It is extremely easier to do 180s on mouse and keyboard now, because it looks like mouse DPI got capped, and the new turn cap is exactly 180 degrees. Before, the turn cap went way beyond 180, which meant it was easy to accidently go over 180 degrees.
HOWEVER, it looks like the new 180s are a nerf, because the turning speed is now capped, and it feels slower to reach 180 degrees now.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3903026#Comment_3903026
No, all killers deserve good, useable add-ons. And as far as I'm concerned, all his good ones bar the Blighted Rat/Crow have been crazy nerfed. And that was such a fail move. The devs didn't even address his main problem with that, which is that PC controls allowing him to break into every possible angle, which means you can't dead angle him, which is his intended counterplay.
That is incorrect. In patch 5.0.0, BHVR "Readjusted maximum turn rate per frame during Blight’s rush at large look angles".
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@tech said:
I have seen a video on the most recent PTB which did include an improvement of scratchmarks with a side by side comparison.
So don't worry it's happening :)
Scratchmarks still aren’t fixed on the PTB. We were told they were getting updated so they’re more visible, but they still get hidden by objects with zero collision, like the tall grass that covers the swamp maps.
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@BurnedTerrormisu said:
the bubble in old versions was behind auras. then it got bugged with patch 2.9.0 in may 2019 and started to obscure auras.
people (killer and survivor) are annoyed by the bubble since six years now but BHVR refuse to change it back to its original form.
It's literally listed as not a bug.
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@jamally093 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3902737#Comment_3902737
Okay then what's the point of the bubble
The main point of the bubble for survivors, is to show where a survivor is hooked, so that survivors can find the hook even if they are affected by the blindness status. It's also way easier for survivors to see, than a survivor aura.
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Kindred is supposed to be an anti-camping perk, and if a killer is leaving the hook immediately to find another survivor, then they aren't camping.
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@UknownShredder said:
Okay but lets move on from you guys saying the same thing.
New question. If someone has prestige their character to P100 playing them only. Would you say you are likely to go up against a strong opponent ?No. Even though people might always get better at something over time, they're likely to reach diminishing returns well before they reach P100. Some people might even reach diminishing returns on skill gains, when they reach P20.
Also, some P100 players are just really bad at estimating what game decisions are reasonable, and will suggest changes that the vast majority of players would just fail at. And some of them will purposely pick game balance decisions that the vast majority of players would fail at, because they want "skill" to be rewarded so much, that they literally want people to fail at their killer if they aren't "dedicated enough".
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@XombieJoker said:
your analysis fails to take into account that SM dropping a Drone at a tile she is chasing you in makes that tile very unsafe to stay at and now you have a 50/50 choice which both likely leads to taking damage. 1- You stay and loop the tile and risk getting scanned, 2- You leave and risk taking a Basic Attack before reaching another tile. With Trapper and Hag they have to be stationary to set their trap and play a very noticeable audio que that tells you "leave this tile and reach a new one before I catch up to you". I f you return to the tile that was trapped, that's just you making a mistake. The most difficult thing I've ever experience playing SM was not falling asleep playing her
We don't know if it will be a 50/50 yet. If it works anything like Houndmaster, where nearby survivors get alerted that the killer has switched views with their "pet", and it's one of those irregularrly shaped loops, then the survivor might be able to just change directions and avoid the drone. Have you ever tried to hit a survivor with Houndmaster's dog, at an irregularly shaped loop? It's really awful and unreliable for the killer.
We also don't know how forgiving the drone's hitbox will be. The drone might be extra terrible at hitting survivors at a loop, because it might collide with the environment if the drone is too close to the loop, and therefore the drone needs to loop widely, with a space between the drone and the loop, and since the drone doesn't move fast like Victor, then looping like this might not work.
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- The most important thing to learn, is the limitations of the chase and redirect commands…
- Before the dog dashes, there is a very long charge time, where the killer makes a super loud noise that 100% alerts the survivor that the killer is charging a chase command. This means you can't use the chase command if there are any line of sight breakers the nearby the survivor, because the survivor would be able to easily move around a line of sight breaker by the time the chase command is fully charged, and the dog actually dashes towards the survivor.
- The redirect command is clunky and awful (which is why I'm super worried about Skull Merchant's drone dash), and trying to use that when the survivor is nearby line of sight breakers, is also really awful. Pretty much the only time the redirect is going to work, is if the survivor literally isn't near a line of sight breaker, or if the survivor is stuck at a pallet loop and the killer can have the dog dash over the pallet (or pass by an undropped pallet), at a sharp angle, and try to pincer attack the survivor. The other scenario is if there is only one line of sight breaker nearby the survivor, and the dog can fully dash there before the survivor, so the first dash prevents the survivor from using the line of sight breaker, and the survivor is now open to getting hit with the redirect attack.
- There are a lot of irregularly shaped loops where the killer literally can't outplay the survivor, if the survivor is camping an undropped pallet. The correct action at these loops, is just to send the dog at the survivor, to force the pallet drop. Then break the pallet and continue to chase the survivor. It sounds bad, but it's faster than wasting time trying to outplay on those loops.
- Using the search command during a chase can also have limitations, because the survivor can easily see where the dog went, and can often just choose a different path. It's more useful at loops, where the killer purposely sends the dog towards one side of the loop, and then walks to the other side of the loop, to try to get the survivor to walk into the dog. This might sound a bit useless, but it ends up inflicting houndsense, and survivors are way easier to see when they are glowing bright red. The other main usage in chase, is when the survivor isn't at a tile/loop, to send the dog to whatever tile/loop nearby the survivor is the strongest option for the survivor, to hopefully steer the survivor away to a loop/tile that's weaker for the survivor. But if you see a survivor that is far away, then feel free to use the search command at a location ahead of where the survivor is running to, because it's still map mobility, and even if the survivor changes direction, there still might be value in running along the search line for a while.
- The biggest thing to learn is there really is a lot of times where the best action is to just walk around as an M1 killer, instead of trying to attack the survivor with the dog. And even though this might sound boring, it's often the optimal choice.
- The most important thing to learn, is the limitations of the chase and redirect commands…
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@ThatRyanB said:
Thank you to everyone who's taken time to share their thoughts in this thread and across the community these past few days! It's always great to see such in-depth responses, so please keep 'em coming! The more granular the info you provide, the more useful it is to us, so seriously, thank you!
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3901413#Comment_3901413
Coming back to this one, I appreciate you breaking out your specific thoughts for each piece of the preview! On the controlling of drones, I see you mentioned you like the idea of this, but not the proposed version.
Is there something specific that you would find rewarding if it were wrapped into the drone control mechanic?
I don’t think the survey actually tells us anything, beyond the fact that many survivors dislike passive trap killers. And BHVR already knew this, because they recently stopped Demogorgon from having a passive trap addon, and they turned Freddy’s passive trap into a projectile. Many people are going to like the rework, because Skull Merchant’s passive traps got nerfed into the ground, and they heavily reward survivors (especially SWFs) for disarming them.
The biggest problem with the rework is that trying to use her drone dash during chase, sounds a lot like Houndmaster’s redirect command, which is still very clunky and unreliable to use. And if BHVR can’t figure out how to get Houndmaster’s redirect to work, then Skull Merchant’s drone dash will likely also feel clunky and unreliable. And the drones won’t move fast like Victor, and they will require a charge time to dash quickly, so they just really feel like they have limited chase potential, even though the drone dash is going to be her entire chase power.
So the bigger question is whether or not the drone dash can be used outside of chase to surprise ambush survivors, or if the drones will somehow alert the survivors so much that the survivors will have a really good chance of avoiding a surprise drone dash.
I also don’t understand how the red light green light ability will be super useful, if survivors can still repair, heal, walk, and do everything else instead of running. In fact, it seems like the best time to use this is when an unhook notification happens, so that Skull Merchant can easily find where the survivors are running to after an unhook, so she can tunnel the unhooked survivor. This will get complained about.
I also worry if this means we can never have a new passive trap killer.
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The hatch itself isn't the problem. The problem is that if there are generators that haven't been repaired, and a survivor escapes out an exit gate because hatch was closed, that they might get MMR from it, and the killer might lose MMR from it.
We've gotten confirmation that hatch is zero MMR, but we were never told if gate escapes are worth zero MMR if there are generators that haven't been repaired.
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@Bodark said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3898826#Comment_3898826
And we all know which way the survivor crowd will vote so it will 100% go back to a 110% Trickster.
I'm fully expecting many people will vote for the weakest choices possible, because they just want him to be nerfed as much as possible. Good luck to BHVR, if they are actually going to attempt to separate the serious survey answers, from the trolling survey answers.
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@hermitkermit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3899023#Comment_3899023
You just argued that survivors dismissing killer frustrations is a lack of empathy, yet now you’re dismissing survivor frustrations about slugging in the same way. That’s the exact double standard I was pointing out. If telling killers “gen rush isn’t real” is invalidating, then so is telling survivors that losing agency to slugging “isn’t a valid reason for change.”
Distortion was criticized as unhealthy because it allowed survivors to bypass every aura reading killer perk, and by doing so resulted in the same people getting chased, and they could still escape. Slugging does the same thing—bypassing key survivor perks and circumventing the main loop of the game (hooks) while achieving the same result (death).
If player agency matters, then it matters across the board.
People don't actually expect both sides of the game to show empathy. This is proven by the upvote/downvote system on these forums, where the majority of the time, it's very survivor sided.
This means that a lot of survivor players are voting in their own self interest, instead of voting out of empathy. It also implies that killers show empathy for survivor problems, way more often than survivors show empathy for killer problems.
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The biggest problem with this whole process, is separating the feedback into categories…
- What feedback actually involves people talking about what makes the killer fun to play AS?
- What feedback involves people wanting Trickster nerfed, so he is less frustrating to play AGAINST?
- What feedback doesn’t actually involve personal opinions, and is instead just referring to the opinions of someone else?
- What feedback is from people that are upset that a different killer got reworked, and is just hoping Trickster’s rework will be reverted, so there is a bigger chance that their favorite killer’s rework will be reverted?
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@ThatRyanB said:
I appreciate that today's message has resulted in some detailed feedback from y'all! Let me collect these and pass them along to the team.
It’s super exciting to hear that he isn’t getting a full rework revert. Thank you!
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@hermitkermit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3898878#Comment_3898878
The bad day analogy still applies. If someone says they had a bad day and you respond with “Well, I have worse bad days, so I don’t care about yours” that’s just dismissal. And that’s exactly what you’re doing right now. You’re arguing that survivors constantly invalidate killer frustrations, but in the same breath, you’re dismissing survivor frustrations by insisting killers have it worse. Invalidation happens on both “sides” and acting like it’s only one way is simply not true. Survivors get told “just loop better” just as often as killers get told “gen rush isn’t real” Both roles have people who try to shut down the other’s complaints.
Pretending it only happens to one “side” just proves the very point you’re arguing against—you’re doing the exact thing you claim to be calling out.
I’m not saying killers have it worse. I’m literally saying we should care about BOTH sides or neither side.
And the fact that slugging takes away player agency, isn’t a valid reason for it to be changed. DBD is a freeze tag game. It’s normal for survivors to be stuck on a hook, which removes player agency. Being slugged on the ground, isn’t less player agency than being stuck on a hook, (except for hook ragequitting, which is against the game rules).
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@hermitkermit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3898784#Comment_3898784
Discussion around SWF and their impact on the game has been ongoing for years with plenty of people advocating for restrictions, penalties, or outright removal. Just because complaints about SWF aren’t always well-received in certain spaces doesn’t mean they don’t exist or aren’t taken seriously. There are also more survivors than killers so you’re bound to see more people unite over something that directly affects the majority of players. The difference in reception comes down to perception. Many see SWF as part of the intended social experience of the game, whereas slugging is viewed as a mechanical issue that directly affects player agency. That doesn’t mean one is ignored while the other isn’t— it just means the conversations around them are different.
If someone talks about having a bad day and your response is that you have worse bad days, it doesn’t help get your point across. It just gives off the impression that you lack empathy and don’t think an issue should matter unless it’s one you personally struggle with.
That's not the correct analogy. When killers say they are having a bad day because of gen rushing, survivors will say "your definition of gen rush isn't valid. You're not having a bad day".
How is that empathic? How is it empathic to tell other people their complaints aren't valid?
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@hermitkermit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3898767#Comment_3898767
People do care. There are plenty of people that complain about their frustrations with SWF just like there are plenty of people that complain about their frustrations with Slugging. Many people have also voiced wanting to delete the ability to SWF altogether or to give penalties to those playing within it.
SWF is definitely not an ignored topic of discussion in this game or on these forums.
Complaining about SWFs is a good way to get massively downvoted, and complaining about being slugged is easy upvotes. That's the difference.
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Hopefully it's visible MMR, and potentially a separate ranked mode for the game.
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@Shodan79 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3898623#Comment_3898623
What does this have to do with the topic at hand?
Why should people care if killers are purposely trying to annoy survivors, if the majority of players don't care when literal SWF bully squads are purposely trying to annoy killers?
We should care about both or neither.
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There was never a consensus among trickster mains. BHVR had a reddit post to gather feedback, and many people felt that Trickster's current movement speed makes Trickster way better to play as, and this includes some of the Trickster mains. And there wasn't a consensus regarding the other parts of the rework either.
This means there is zero reason for a full rework revert.
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None of this is confusing. Randomizing addons is massively survivor sided, because a lot of killer addons make the killer worse, and some killers feel like garbage to play as unless they have specific addons.
Furthermore, if a survivor is given a random item they don't want, they could trade it with a teammate, or potentially find the item they want from chests.
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Does this mean that we care about bully SWFs that purposely try to make killers feel miserable? Or do we only care when survivors feel miserable?
Because if we care about survivors being bled out on the ground, then we should also care about bully SWFs.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3898356#Comment_3898356
There would be a few scenarios where it would be 100% crystal clear, yes. However when it comes to something like this, you need to accurately identify every scenario involving a protection hit.
There's just too many potential variables to identify this with any level of consistency.
No, you don't need to identify every single scenario. BHVR just needs to identify some of the scenarios, count them as conspicuous actions, and they can leave the super rare exceptions alone. Also, it doesn't need to be 100% perfect. If a few scenarios go through that hurt DS or OTR, that's fine, because it's overall healthier to get rid of the perks being used offensively, when they are supposed to be anti-tunnel perks.
And perks get nerfed all the time, so it's fine if DS and OTR change in strength. There's zero requirement that those perks must stay at 100% efficiency for anti-tunnel.
@Rickprado said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3898356#Comment_3898356
The idea is not making the invulnerable, but just without collision to prevent bodyblock. So the killer can pass through them without any problem if they try to bodyblock; but if the killer chase them, the survivor will be able to be chased normally.
If the killer tried to hit them with an attack, will it hurt them?
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3898311#Comment_3898311
There are far too many variables to determine if someone is intentionally bodyblocking or not, at least from a game logic standpoint.
The Go Next Prevention will likely just be "is the Survivor trying to 4% and then immediately fail struggle skill checks" or "are they AFK and then immediately trying to fail struggle skill checks" etc. The logic there is a lot more binary, and the system will likely have leniency anyway.
One example: How would the system act if a Survivor accidentally (or deliberately) leads a chase to a recently unhooked Survivor with Decisive Strike, and they are then downed? The Survivor was in close proximity to a Chase, and got between the killer and their teammate and took a hit. For all intents and purposes, that'd look like an intentional bodyblock to an algorithm.
Trying to detect something like this wouldn't be consistent. Inaccuracy in a system such as this would be bad design, as you'd have the anti-tunnel perks gated behind the whim of a system that'd be rife with false positives and negatives. It'd be confusing for both Survivor and Killer alike.
The Go Next prevention can afford to be a little lenient and let people off the hook accidentally every now and then (just as long as we don't start getting false positives), however core gameplay rules, such as what counts as a Conspicuous Action have to be consistent every time.
I'm sure there are a few scenarios where it's 100% crystal clear the survivor is intentionally bodyblocking.
And for reals, what percentages of games do you really think involve players accidently leading chases to a DS survivor, and then somehow the DS survivor coincidentally gets between the killer and their teammate? I'd say that would be super rare, and not really that much of a concern.
The bigger concern are the survivors intentionally bodyblocking with DS, which happens far more often.
@Rickprado said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3898311#Comment_3898311
I think this will be very hard to implement in the game, specially if you consider we could have false positives and false negatives. The most easy solution i see is to remove collision from survivors after they are unhooked, as long as they have Endurance effects or are with Decisive active or any other anti-tunnel perks active. This way we could prevent people using their anti-tunnel perks offensive as we could prevent some killers from holding the survivor while their basekit BT runs out.
That would be worse, because if the killer knocks one of their teammates to the ground, and the DS user is threatening a flashlight/flashbang/pallet save, then the killer is literally forced to slug because the DS survivor is immune to damage. Survivors would absolutely weaponize that.
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Intentional bodyblocking should count as a conspicuous action. If we're getting AI in DBD to figure out if a survivor is purposely trying to Go Next, then we can also have AI to determine if a survivor is intentionally bodyblocking for another survivor.
For example, a killer hitting a survivor 0.2 seconds after being unhooked wouldn't be considered intentional bodyblocking. But if the killer is clearly chasing someone, and a recently unhooked survivor is clearly trying to get between the killer and their teammate, then it should count as a conspicuous action, because if a survivor is intentionally bodyblocking, then they aren't being tunneled.
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@KerJuice said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3898169#Comment_3898169
Oh, no- not a bug. You don't get the fast vault from the object itself; the object (or wall) is positioned fairly close to the window, creating somewhat of a skill expression for the player to execute a fast vault while in chase (because of tight spacing between window & chair/wall/etc.).
I tried to find an example online to screenshot and paste here, but no luck. It would be better to screenshot in game.
Blight's Hug Tech was a "skill expression", and it still got nerfed.
If a survivor normally can't fast vault at a specific angle, then it's not intended for the fast vault to occur there, and a player is bypassing game mechanics to fast vault there.
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@KerJuice said:
Is it possible to get controller fast vaults between windows with a parallel object (i.e a chair), that’s 3 feet away?
Any tips on how to do this? No matter what I try, I can’t nail it. Streamers on keyboard make this look effortless while in chase.
That sounds like a bug that should be fixed, right? Getting a fast vault from a parallel object sounds like bypassing game mechanics.
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It's not a bug. The perk doesn't actually create a real terror radius. It creates the illusion of being in a terror radius. It's the same thing as Doctor's Discipline addons, where it creates the illusion of a terror radius, but doesn't actually create a real terror radius.
TD;LR Hearing a fake terror radius is not the same thing as being in a real terror radius.
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@KatsuhxP said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3896878#Comment_3896878
Yes that would be an option, but maybe make it a little bit too useless. I'm used to not really running through palettes since years, so it would basically only activate on forced palettes.
It’s healthier for the game if power struggle + flip flop was nerfed. We have so many people demanding anti slugging, that we really shouldn’t have a combo in the game, that encourages killer to bleed out any survivor that has been slugged under a pallet for more than a few seconds.
A survivor getting 30% dying recovery, can be faster than it takes for a killer to completely check the surrounding area for teammates, which is often what killers should be doing if a survivor purposely gets knocked down under an undropped pallet… because if the survivor didn’t bother to drop pallet, it might be because they are setting up a pallet save.
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@KatsuhxP said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3896789#Comment_3896789
I mean not really? It doesn't activate while you camp (obviously), and also not while you tunnel - you have to slug for a moment.
So I wouldn't say it counters anything else.
When survivors place themselves in situations where the killer can't reliably get them to a hook, it encourages killers to let them bleed out on the ground.
The actual solution is that flip flop recovery shouldn't count for power struggle. The perk should require the killer to carry a survivor through a pallet. It shouldn't be "get 30% of dying state recovery, and flip flop turns that into an instant power struggle"
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@cesspoolechochamber said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3896466#Comment_3896466
It literally is bugged, it says no where in the perk a killer can swing out of a stun. Half the point of running the perk was to waste killers time who tunnel. This is the hypocrisy of some of you. You want things nerfed/fixed/changed because it wasn't fun. But since you benefit from being able to avoid a pallet stun cheaply it isn't bugged. And for the guy who said it creates more slugging. It doesn't, if the killer picks up right away they avoid the stun and does the opposite of encouraging slugging.
Your suggestions makes Power Struggle encourage slugging, because if the killer is forced to slug, or if the killer doesn't immediately pick up the survivor, then the killer might be literally better off just letting the survivor bleed out.
And this is true for any survivor that has been slugged under a pallet for a while, regardless if they have Power Struggle, because the killer won't know if someone has Power Struggle before it is used. And therefore, the killer would be encouraged to bleed out survivors that are slugged under pallets for a while, if all the survivors are currently slugged or hooked.
Your suggestion also encourages SWFs to weaponize the perk, by forcing the killer to slug, and forcing a situation where the killer can't safely pick up the survivor, even if zero teammates are nearby.
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@KatsuhxP said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3894978#Comment_3894978
That's not bugged, you obviously don't get stunned if you're not hit with the palette. You simply can't instantly press space to drop it and the killer can if he clicks 100 times a second (it feels like) swing out of it and eventually don't get hit, however this only works if the survivor isn't perfectly in the middle and even then only sometimes.
Power Struggle should be design to punish killers that completely walk through an unstopped pallet.
Power Struggle shouldn’t make survivors immune to being picked up. Part of the anti-slugging changes should address this, because survivors that force killers to slug is part of the slugging problem.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3896202#Comment_3896202
They were even set to fix this at some point too, by giving survivors new running animations. But too many people complained and they didn't go through. "I can't 360 anymore!" "It's too hard to 360!" "The movement feels awkward!" Imagine all the terrible stuff in this game that's tied to how survivors currently move. Like when people say, "Huntress shouldn't have hit me! Broken hitboxes!" Yes, hitboxes which you didn't want fixed, and instead want to stay with the hunched forward running animation where your character's heel has an invisible giant hitbox.
The 360s are a serious problem. If they weren't so effective, survivors would never do them. But if they get a hint that you're a console player, they'll start doing it, and get absolutely free dodges when they should've got hit. Then they call it skill and/or the killer being bad. And it literally encourages what the most popular survivor content is, which is bullying baby killers, like "Look! 360ing a killer 8 times in a row! Lol!"
I've managed to counter 360s, mostly, like spinning my camera, as they spin around me, to hit them. But other survivors know how to do the full 360s which are actually uncounterable, because they force the aim dress. They say "Just wait for the spin to finish and hit them," but then they're still running at full speed and actually make the pallet/window, because you had to "step back" as they tell you to do to hit them. Except it doesn't lead to a hit, because they if they do it anywhere even close to a loop, they make it there safe.
There are two 360 scenarios…
1: The survivor 360s in a way to help exploit a bug in aim dressing, where the survivor will be in range of the proximity check, but then out of range of the hit validation check. This problem affects M+KB and controller killers pretty much the same.
2: The survivor 360s in a way to help exploit the hardware limitations of controller camera turning, because the survivor does the 360 around the killer. This is the scenario where aim dressing actually helps M+KB killers, because if they hold M1 and quickly spins their camera in a circle, then aim dressing will functionally auto-aim on the survivor because the proximity check will trigger even if the killer doesn't actually know where the survivor is. However, controller players literally can't spin their camera fast enough to trigger aim dressing, so they are at a severe disadvantage.
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@Pit_Bull_Love said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3896202#Comment_3896202
They already did that years ago. It was most obvious when slugs could 360, and now you have to crawl in a circle.
360s are still in the game, and they still unfairly punish controller killers. This is an objective fact.
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How are survivor 360s fair for controller killer players, since it allows survivors to spin around a killer, faster than a controller killer player can turn their camera? A killer being able to follow a survivor that is doing a 360 around them, is a PC only thing.
So if we really cared about controller players, then let's nerf 360s.
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@Raccoon said:
It's like everyone has Lightweight basekit or something.
They're appearing at weird intervals and I can't track anyone.
It's almost unplayable.
The worst part is this is all happening after BHVR released a patch that was supposed to make scratch marks reliably visible.
And the PTB has another patch that is supposed to make scratch marks reliably visible, but it STILL doesn’t work at all on objects that lack collision, like the tall grass that covers large portions of the swamp maps.
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If people honestly care about console players and their struggles, then survivor 360s should be nerfed, because it’s not fair that survivors can spin around a killer faster than a controller player can spin their character.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3892924#Comment_3892924
Why do you seem to take issue with a mechanic that is designed to prevent behaviour that is straight up against the rules of the game? Every time a thread is made about excessive hiding and hostage situations you seem to show up crying "skill issue".
It is not about people only guarding generators for 10 minutes. It is not that hard to hide from the killer for massive stretches of time if you ignore the objective entirely. You don't even need lockers to hide, just find one of the plentiful secluded corners in the map, and maybe move every now and then.
People who are asking for AFK Crows to be improved are not asking to make it easier to find Survivors in the terms of intended gameplay. They just don't want to deal with situations where the Survivors hide until the server closes and refuse to play the game.
Also, Distortion did not get nerfed "for exactly this scenario". It was nerfed for being far too effective as a counter to aura reading across the board.
Excessively hiding survivors is also a problem for survivors, because when the game is down to 2 survivors, if only one of the survivors excessively hides, then the other survivor is at a severe disadvantage.
Instead of both survivors having a chance at hatch, it’s usually just the survivor that’s willing to excessively hide for longer that has the advantage.
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I’m against Pig getting new music, because new music is often a big nerf for the killer, because it’s often much harder to hear survivor noises during the new music.
Nurse, Hag, and Spirit all got huge nerfs when they got new chase music, because their new chase music is super rigged to hide survivor noises. And the new music that Houndmaster recently got was a similarly huge nerf, because the new layer of music is super rigged to hide survivor noises. -
@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3893016#Comment_3893016
Yet 100% of the changes so far are to benefit Survivors, and there are 0 announced changes that will benefit Killers.
Map Offerings are getting nerfed to be a 20% chance instead of a guaranteed way of getting a particular map. This throws a wrench in your whole argument here since you quite literally cannot guarantee that you get a specific map to abuse. The 20% effect does not stack either, and Sacrificial Wards still exist in full effect.
They are changing the spawn rules to make Survivors spawn closer together which helps a lot of Killers get early on pressure where they tend to lack it. Unironically, it also buffs Corrupt Intervention and/or Lethal Pursuer as well since Survivors are required to run Shroud Offerings to split themselves up and the increase pressure from CI and/or LP can be insane.
And recently they announced a lot of Killer changes for the PTB which includes a lot of buffs and adjustments to Killer powers, including the long awaited 24m TR on Pig that people have been asking for years.
But yea… that arent making beneficial changes towards Killer… they are just ignoring them the entire time… ignoring all that I put, just sweep that under the rug.
Are any of the anti-slugging changes in this giant 2025 plan going to help Killers?
We dont know. We are only getting information as they make changes, and they do plan on making changes and adjustments to Killers if necessary to not only keep Killrates the same but to help prevent the systems they are adding from being abused. Mandy (among other community managers) have already been saying this for weeks.
You want to see if they add anti-slugging changes for Killers? Wait. There is quite literally nothing else you can do since we all objectively lack the relevant information to know for certain at the moment.
I never said 0% changes will benefit killers. I said the anti-slugging project, that's literally supposed to be a multi-phased project, is so far 100% survivor sided, with 0% announcements, or anything to imply that killers are ever going to get anti-slugging things in their favor.
And the map offering thing hurts both sides of the game. Some killer builds are just plain awful if you can't choose a map. And it still heavily favors survivors, because if they pick 4 separate maps, it's still a 1 - (.8*.8*.8*.8) = 59% chance they get a map offering they want, compared to the 20% the killer gets when they bring a map offering.
And we already know that "adjustments to the kill rate" are sometimes just flat number buffs, with zero quality of life improvements. Kill rate adjustments are sometimes literally slightly faster kicking speed, which is a zero quality of life improvement.
Because that is how these balance changes sometimes work. Survivors sometimes get real quality of life improvements, and killers are just promised a certain kill rate, like it's a giant present that killers should be grateful for, as opposed to something necessary for the game.