C3Tooth
C3Tooth
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I wonder how other Invocation perks work in the future. Will it be like Boons, that you only need to Invocate once to make all the Invocation perks activated? Or have to do it once per Invo perk?
Currently, I still think its better to have 2 health states for double chase time, than saving ~50sec of Gen and wasting 60sec sitting down.
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@Caiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3734619#Comment_3734619
You don't need an item. I almost never take items into trials.
A better solution would be to just put empty items in places that don't matter.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3734629#Comment_3734629
One survivor being away from gens doesn't matter if the killer gets all their chases invalidated with no hooks.
So does my 90% Gen get hits by quad slowdowns.
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@Crowman said:
Killer runs build that isn't just 4 slowdown perks, gets complained about.
Build eventually gets nerfed and killers return to running 4 slowdown perks
Survivors complain about 4 slowdown build.
Survivors no more use Toolbox on Gen but Sabo plus 1 survivor away from Gen. Also get complained about.
Things happen.
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@HexHuntressThighs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3734530#Comment_3734530
Somebody told me to tag you so I did lol, I had no idea what your stance was.
I never say new sabo is fine, I didnt try yet since Im playing 50 matches challenge as Myers again.
I was making points that old Sabo is so worthless no one try to Sabo.
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I was talking about Brown/Yellow toolbox without the sabo buff and addon, alot harder to pull off a sabo save which needed a buff. I never bring the old Eruption meta to prove how broken current gen regression, do I?
If the new sabo buff is broken, Devs will adjust them.
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@nodforkiss said:
just shows how survivor sided devs are. nobody good at the game complained about gen regression. when i play survivor or killer 1-2 gen pops before killer can even get a down/hook. then people are crying "why killers tunnel" my brother in christ what is killer supposed to with 2 gen done and 3 one is almost done and she got one single hook and few pallets. since devs dont want us to spread hooks, why do we play fair? i tunnel and slug dont care about anything at this point this nerfs just made the killers more angry and pissed off. cant wait all the tears from survivor mains when anniversary starts lol.
Devs balanced by the number 60. The harder you try, the higher kill rate, the more nerf to killers. Keep it coming!
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3733716#Comment_3733716
Yup. That's why it's gotta go.
We just need to figure out how to get rid of It
Honestly I prefer them to get rid of tunneling rather than slowdown.
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@Shaddoll_Serpent said:
"Of course I know what SWF mains will say: "If you did that, no Killer would every play against a SWF!".
You just answered your own question.
SWFs didnt ask why killers cant see who's in a swf. Killers did.
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@NerfDHalready said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3733042#Comment_3733042
they do but i genuinely don't think this is one of them.
a second hook won't be possible if they aren't super close and the sabo person has break out. the sabo player doesn't even need to trade a down for it too.
If hook sabo only work if its a hook trade, I would use FTP and Buckleup. Much easier to do.
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Great news is, the toolboxes now are used for Sabo, not on Gens
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@NerfDHalready said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3732929#Comment_3732929
i'll copy and paste: "sabo isn't weak anymore, it had to be smart and preemptively done or it's a trade. that is not the case anymore, you can tank a hit under any hook killer decides to go esp with bgp, sabo the hook and get out safely."
so you only need 1 survivor with a dedicated build and 2 or 3 hooks to not spawn 10 meters apart which is super rare, almost exclusive to dds. sabo set ups never needed boil over also what? that smells like a max 1k hour squad trying out a full on overkill sabo build.
I pick a survivor up, walk for 3sec and see you sabo hook#1. Then I just go for hook#2. I still have 13sec left to walk to a hook. Even if you tank a hit, I still have 9sec left.
When a sabo requires a health state, its already worse than a flashlight save.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3732929#Comment_3732929
No, they dont. All you need Is someone with Sabo ability to disable Hook in front of the Killer to waste most of his time for free escape (easy with these buffs) or take Once hit And then Sabo. Its rly not complicated.
Let me build up the whole scene to make it clear.
Carrying speed is ~3.7m/s over 16sec. The total distance killer can go for a hook is nearly 60m. Hook distance is about 25m apart. Sabo a hook right infront of killer doesnt give enough time to wiggle out.
H is hook, there are killer, down survivor and healthy survivor ready to sabo the hook right infront of killer.
But definitely, a hook sabo and a hit are not enough to make a Sabo save. Survivors need a third option, either Boilover or Breakout. Eventhen if killer feel there is not enough time to get a hook, they can drop and slug survivor if the carrying time is below 12sec. A third survivor has to go there and spend time to pick them up.
Not saying Sabo save isnt annoying, but to prove Sabo save takes more than a Flashlight save.
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@NerfDHalready said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3732854#Comment_3732854
a healthy sabotage player can sabo the hook after getting hit without trading the down. don't want to be offensive but if you think that's ok idk what to tell you.
Lets compare
Sabo save requires:
- Carried survivor has Boilover
- A survivor has Sabo and/or toolbox to sabo a targeted hook, not any.
- Another survivor has Sano and/or toolbox to sabo another targeted hook
- Third survivor has Breakout
- Take a hit
- Take a second hit
- Hook spawn offering
Survivors need to have at least 3 or 4 out of these 6 things to success.
Flashlight save requires:- A survivor has flashlight
- Background player
The effort and requirements for a Sabo save is far greater than Flashlight save. But somehow killers see Sabo save a problem. -
@Zaydin said:
How about rather than buffing solo queue, SWFs get nerfed instead.
The advantage of SWFs is not they do Gen faster, or chase better. Its the info that Solo's dont have. And you can not cut the communication part of SWFs away from the game.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3732121#Comment_3732121
What might help is bringing back alternative 'win' conditions, IE: the BP bonuses of WGLF and BBQ. Those allowed survivors to 'win' in a 4k, and killers to 'win' in a 4E.
Some killers have a mindset with survivors being toxic and thinking "if I kill them they cant toxic", making killers obsessed with getting kills are all that matter. They dont understand that toxic people will toxic either they win or lose.
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The only buff solo needs is stamps chat. Its really that.
There are certain situation like my 90% Gen near the hook, I would like to finish my Gen and go unhooking. But a teammate go to unhook from across the map because they thought that the time I commit my Gen and run to unhook would not be enough, and my teammate wastes like one third a Gen time.
All of that can be solved by "I will go unhook"
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average survivors you mean. Extremely good survivors dont need that 0.4
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If the match last 20mins without a hook, the game feel pretty quick for killers. You know what I mean.
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@Dwight_Fairfield said:
You've had more wins than losses. Commendable.
Its really impossible to have losing rate higher than win rate. Killers complain only because the win rate < tie + lose, or even not counting 3K as winning.
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Im not a good runner, so if its a tunneler Blight or Wesker, I would definitely die really fast.
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Updated to #9 match, with match note of key moment in each match.
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I think Scavenger should simply give a Commodious toolbox and thats it.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I think stacked regression and slowdown is really obnoxious to play against. I'd really like to see diminishing returns across all equipped slowdown perks that increases with the number of slowdowns equipped. It's just beyond obnoxious to have a gen 80%+ only to have it get hit by Pain Res+Grim+Pop. You can argue the balance aspect all day, but it's objectively bad gameplay to sit and watch a bar fill for 70 seconds and then have to do it all over again without actually progressing the game.
Which is I always think, Slowdown should not get nerfed, may be make it even stronger. But its desparately need a hard limit on how much a Gen can be regressed, and the total regression time per match. To make using 3-4 slowdown become redundant, just how they did with Exhaustion and 2nd chances.
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I think stacking slowdown, or Gen rush should not be a thing.
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150sec of extra Gen time worth 4 slowdown already. And having 4 perk slots being free for other perks. Its basically they have 8 perks.
And even if Devs delete all slowdown perks, killers still have slowdown basekit: tunneling.
There is no way killers can refuse this.
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@Cryptikk said:
It sucks because gen speeds are such a issue that killers are forced to use slowdown over actually experiment with fun builds, because otherwise the game is over in minutes.
The worst part is that whenever you mention this, survivor mains vilify you, because they want the game to be as easy for them as possible.
The best part is that I can destroy this comment so hard in artistic way.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3730084#Comment_3730084
Why would you ask that question? You obviously know we both do, it serves no purpose other than to be patronizing. We can have a conversation without needing to mock the other person for something they don’t even think.
I think your Blight analogy is off base and that most people would actually not agree with that. It’s attempting to make this another us vs them point when it’s not. It’s strawmanning.
You think MMRs purpose is to make killers lose 40% of games that they played better in? Its purpose is to make you face players better than you in which leads to losing 40% of games from being outplayed. Those are two extremely different scenarios.
I think you’re misunderstanding what mmr is meant to do. MMR isn’t just to make you win or lose a certain amount of matches, it’s to make you face opponent skill levels that will lead to those amount of wins or losses. Very different but I think you’re using them synonymously.
Correct! MMR is mean to match people with similar win rate. From the other games, you win by skill, your skill is higher so you win more. And matched with people who has similar 'win more'.
In DBD its difference. I can decide to play as Myers without slowdown, or Nurse with 4 slowdown and tunneling. The meta stacking in this game is so great that skill just a fragment.
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I dont mind Distortion as killer, since I dont need aura as killer anymore, just using senses. Crows, scratchmarks, breathing, blood, predicting behaviour.
As survivor though, I really dont like that I get seen by killers with aura perk, Jeff knows but I dont, then when both of us leave Gen, Im the only one leave scratchmark, Jeff is like just not exist at all. Making it Im the only target.
I dont like using Distortion, I prefer using Lightweight, Quick&Quiet, Dance with me (Calm Spirit would be in the build if there wasnt debuff)…to hide from killer.
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@CrimsonMothKing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3730106#Comment_3730106
I agree with you that killers can choose their own difficulty, but how the survivors play isn't up to the killer. I try to play chill and the game goes by too fast because the survivors want to do their own thing too, whether that be escape or chase.
You can absolutely play this game in a chill way, but you won't get kills the majority of the time. Killers HAVE to kill, it's just the job, there is nothing properly chill about it. Nobody wants to lose, and in order for a killer to "win", 2-3 survivors need to lose. 8 hooking and letting escape is a strategy, but some people find it uninteresting and a waste of the game and something you have to go out of your way for.
The most fun part of this game is the chase, but that the majority of the time is a 1v1. Leaving 3 survivors with nothing to do besides gens and the occasional hex totem.
Yes, there are people that run full meta slowdown and drag the game out, but these perks allow the killer more time.
The main point of my post is that the game can go by so fast without slowdown perks UNLESS I play in a less relaxed way, which I don't like doing. Having a build that rewards me for chases and helps the game last longer, it feels good. Yes the perks aren't as fun to use, but I play the game for the killers, not the perks.
I agree with you that killers can choose their own difficulty, but how the survivors play isn't up to the killer. I try to play chill and the game goes by too fast because the survivors want to do their own thing too, whether that be escape or chase.
Mismatching happens, there will be good survivors asking for chase, quest survivors follow to flashlight save, and newbie survivors start to walk away when hear TR. Thing is if you're at lower MMR, the chance of good survivors matched with out will drop, so the chance to get 2K with 10 hooks is greater.
You can absolutely play this game in a chill way, but you won't get kills the majority of the time.
I had 50 matches challenge as Myers with rule that first kill at 9th hook. I had 72% kill rate. Try to write down your match history, you will be surprised that your "majority wont get kills" is like only 30% of the time. A single bad match triumph over 2000 win streak.
Yes, there are people that run full meta slowdown and drag the game out, but these perks allow the killer more time.
You forget slowdown is not just time. A chase starts with 15 pallets available, 3 healthy teammates ready to take a hit to extend chase. Is far difference than a chase that everywhere is deathzone and everyone is injured.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3730073#Comment_3730073
Why you lose those 40% is being left out in this scenario. You can run all “fun” builds to get 60% kill rate like you said, but what’s happening in those 40% games you lose? Are you losing them because you were outplayed or did you outplay them and still lose because of balance problems? I’d lean towards the latter.
Winning 60% and losing 40% is fine if you’re actually being outplayed those 40%. However you reach a skill ceiling where you’re losing those 40% because you brought the wrong perks, not because you were outplayed. Losing 40% games where you played better but still lose IS a bad feeling. That bad feeling is lack of agency. You feel cheated because the better player didn’t win.
Thats what MMR is for, since the game allow players to stack meta heavily, if Devs make MMR "use more Meta to win more", there is no reason for players to ever not using Meta.
The fact that there are players who understand the reason for MMR exist is why there are survivors with fun builds for killers who try hard to tunnel them out of the game in 3min (and same to low tier killers against bully squad). But Im pretty sure alot killers are okay with a Blight with quad slowdown tunneling fun build survivors, the pull out cards "learn to play", "its mis matching", "why should survivors win if killer is better" as I heard all the time.
I accept mis-matching/out meta is a thing to both sides. Do you?
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@apathyinc said:
If you keep winning matches with full slowdown perks, you are going to have a bad time when you try to go back to more "fun" builds. I find it's best to let MMR do its job based on the builds I like to run. If I'm losing, it probably means that I went to a skill level above where I should be with how I like to play.
This is the correct mindset when play as killers.
If I won 10 matches in a row with 0 slowdown then suddenly the game is harder that I can 2-3K instead of 3-4K. I can put a slowdown or two to 3-4K again. Then the game is harder that with two slowdown but I can only get 2-3K. Then I use quad slowdown to get 3-4K, then the game is harder that quad slowdown is still not enough for me.
For some reasons killers just dont understand this.
Just play the build you like and MMR works for itself, you SHOULD have 60% kill rate no matter the build and play style, MMR exist for that solve reason "try hard or casual have similar win rate". So why try hard?
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@Quizzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/415555/someone-explain-to-me-scavenger
Well to you, it may not be easy to get 5 great skill checks. But to others, it's actually easy. Also, Scavenger has unlimited usages while built to last weakens with every refill, btw, you waste time going into a locker to activate while you at least do some progression with Scavenger. Even if u are at a rebuff 50%.
Overall, Scavenger is a bit harder for newer players while built to last is pretty easy to use.
Build to last let you prepare the toolbox before starting to work on a new Gen. Get into a locker to refill it then continue on Gen is not a good move.
Scavenger with a Brown toolbox saves you 5.5sec, or Commodious saves you 9sec. Then instead you can progress 30sec of Gen in 30sec, you only progress 15sec of Gen, it takes you always 15sec. A perk puts a penalty more than it gives.
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@Cryptikk said:
It sucks because gen speeds are such a issue that killers are forced to use slowdown over actually experiment with fun builds, because otherwise the game is over in minutes.
The worst part is that whenever you mention this, survivor mains vilify you, because they want the game to be as easy for them as possible.
Same thing when survivors try fun builds then get tunneled out of the game in 3min because they didnt use 2nd chances.
In general, people who wants game to be easier complain all the time.
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Im a totem lust.
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After a hooking, how much time does it take a killer to start a new chase? Blight Nurse Wesker is within 5sec. Other has to take 10sec. Which means 30sec of a hook, Blight Wesker is already 25sec in chase, while other has 20sec. Start chase early is an advantage.
115% may not catch a survior to another tile, but 230% does
Patrolling a wrong Gen? let 230% makes up your mistake.
A chased survivor is outskill you and you just can not catch them? It takes 5sec to start chase with another survivor. Before the chased one even know you left.
Speed is just everything.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3729084#Comment_3729084
My question is why? What makes her unfun to play against currently? She drops a drone at a loop and you can either leave it or not. So she's a "leave the loop" kind of killer.
How is that any different than.
- Trapper
- Hag
- Clown
- Artist
- Dredge
- Knight
- Singularity (when you don't have emp)
Clown requires reload, Haste given to both side, and not hide TR when coming.
Artist is hated by many
Dredge anti loops drop his speed to 92%, not 117%.
Knight is hated by many
I dont buy and play or play against Singu so cant really tell.
Trapper and Hag require time to go to the exact place, require time to crouch and set. Trapper & Hag can spawn a trap under them without those time is another story. And Trapper's traps do not have a 'hitbox' equal to a tile.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3729039#Comment_3729039
Well firstly, that statement is a completely different point than what I asked or what you we're saying.
Second, Unknown is extremely popular as a killer. So whether people are saying that or not isn't backed up by what we actually see.
I didnt say Unknown is no popular, just saying there are complains about how Unknown being mediocre because he's not A+ tier strength in chase.
And my point was killers dont like it because those killers dont have insane chase power.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
There is not really a reason to do that. In the end, it is an action like everything else in the game. Like, why should people doing Invocations not scream when I scream when doing a Gen, despite me being more productive?
And where should it stop? Also no Aura Read in case of BBQ or for the once in a blue moon Territorial Imperative?
After all, it would make the Perk not really better to avoid screaming, it is still a terrible Perk. But I dont think that it should have exceptions just because the Survivor can be unlucky and be found while doing the Invocation.
I had 2 Claudette (a Clau had Invocation and No mither), happened that the 3rd teammate downed and hooked then Freddy had BBQ and teleport across the map to the Gen above the basement in the shack then down No mither Clau. The game ended for survivor right there with me finished 1 Gen…just like that.
I mean it could be 2 or 3 Gens done on the first down if the duo Clau worked on Gens. But Invocation.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3729025#Comment_3729025
" have 4v1 tools and killers dont like it because they dont have insane chase power"
Are you saying that killer players on average don't like killers that focus their strengths on macro play but are weaker in 1v1?
We already have a topic about Unknown isnt worth to play because his M2 is not Huntress hatchet with blast radius.
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@Yharwick said:
I don't think this was necessarily a skill issue but the wrong thing may be being blamed here. First the map was RPD a map with some of the most fixed gen spawns in the game that has a habit of spawning survivors literally on top of gens that combination leads to multiple gens getting 15-20% progress before you can even find anyone depending on spawns.
Then you're deathslinger, you may be a good deathslinger but you're still slinger and at the end of the day it's a killer with absolutely no 4v1 pressure meaning as long as survivors work on gens far from you they're never really in any danger. Like there's some killers like Cenobite that this would never happen to because they HAVE to respect the cube and that takes them off gens
So it was an unfortunate combination of bad map with a killer that exacerbate the problems of that map. I'm not really sure how you fix it because maps need to be smaller for low mobility killers but also it increases the likelihood of survivors spawning on gens. The answer isn't increasing gen times because making survivors have to sit on a gen fo over a minute and a half even without regression would be a miserable experience.
Honestly I feel like they would have to retool every killer to have some sort of 4v1 pressure but there's no way BHVR would have time for that with their release schedule. Maybe move survivor spawn points closer to the killer but survivors hate being in chase before they even know what's going on so idk. With so many maps and so many killers these things were bound to happen eventually.
Pinhead, Pig, Unknown have 4v1 tools and killers dont like it because they dont have insane chase power. They're more than just M1 on Gen hoping teammates hold Blight & Nurse, Wesker long enough.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3728991#Comment_3728991
I suppose in my experience thus far, it's not very hard to get BP starved as killer, but you have more experience than me, and in fairness each time I play a killer, the first game tends to be rough, but the subsequent games get easier as you figure out their power. I've been meaning to get more games going recently, but haven't got the group together for a while :D
Looking at the rules for Yui and Zarina, that does seem a little fishy…
Is gonna be interesting to see how the Artist plays. Its an odd power.. I suppose her strength is she can keep feeding herself BPs to make use of her powers… Looking at Grim Embrace, it seems like she has a lot of power to be very dangerous near hooks. Catching someone who makes an unhook can give her a massive comeback later on… and of course she gets additional BP from Pentimento for survivors cleansing hex totems.
Seems her whole stiche is managing the BP economy effectively…
Cant wait for them to reveal Dredge and Haddie. May be Dredge can use power to go to any locker he wants, and may be ability to spawn destroyed lockers like Artist.
There is a locker rule I learned that,Im not sure if you know this.
- 1st round: Dwight - Meg - Clau - Jake (injured and gets into a locker).
- 2nd round: Meg - Clau - Jake - Dwight
On 2nd round, while Meg & Clau make a move, may be go to Jake's space. They can NOT heal Jake because he's still in the locker, also Jake can not use perks until his turn and Dwight being after Jake. This rule changed alot to survivor's gameplay. We always have survivors jump out of locker when clean up.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3728945#Comment_3728945
Bah just remembered you can't pick up a survivor wounded this round... which is still a restriction I don't really agree with... if you make a perfect read, I feel you should be rewarded for it.
So ignore all the 1-2 punch stuff from earlier 😒
We've discussed before how killers feel a little weak... and I think this rule is the heart of it. Survivors can rush a gen by all diving on it at once... the killer can't rush a hook state by diving on 1 survivor in a turn...
I be curious to see how much better the killers perform if we change this rule.
Edit: either that or limit survivors to 2 attempts to repair the same generator each round, to simulate limited spaces around a gen.
There is only 1 injure rule that I dont agree is Yui & Zarina perks that injure themselves would not let killer to interact with them that round. Otherwise, cant successfully interact on the same survivor twice work well for us (I mean, if you fail to hook Dwight because he roll a 5, you can spend 4BP to interact with him again, because you failed to interact with him earlier)
@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3728945#Comment_3728945
Birds of Torment: Place a Crow or Dire Crow from your board in your space. If there is a Crow or Dire Crow in your space gain 1 BP.
I've slowly figured this out while typing this message... this is revision 6. XD
The part that is confusing me is that survivors get bonus turns off Crows... so her passive power only works if a survivors stops on a crow space and doesn't take a bonus turn... I guess you want to throw Crows on gens I suppose to catch survivors as they leave?
You use you power in place of interactions... I'm not sure if I must place a Crow or Dire Crow to get the BP portion of my power to activate... I'd assume not, that seems overly restrictive, and it doesn't make sense to put a crow in a location that already has a crow... but it should say you "may" place a Crow.
The fact the second BP part is a separate statement makes the "may" implied... so my rationale is if at any time I activate my power with no Crows on my board, if there is a Crow in my space, I gain a BP. Thus I would guess I can choose to do this instead of interact and remove that Crow.
This would make sense as the passive portion of her power rewards her for placing crows, and obviously outside of power I can interact with a Crow or Dire Crow to gain a BP, so I can also farm Crows for BP, by moving, using power, and waiting and immediately picking up the Crow for 2 BP a turn.
Between this and survivor using Crows Artist has a pretty insane BP battery, though its risky cause of all the survivor turns.
I think per power relied on survivors jumping with Prop Crows to gain BP for 3rd move. Spending an interaction just to put a Prop Crows sound really bad on paper. But Im sure it works well in practice. As an injured survivor, you definitely not want to take a single move without Prop Crows because she will keep hooking you for snowball.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3728856#Comment_3728856
Pain Res: There are fewer hooks available too, so it's harder to pull off.
I don't think the killer sabotages the hook, it's not on the list of killer interactions, I think it's interacting like they would a hex totem for the effect. It basically means a hook becomes an interactable token for the killer.
In the early game you want to reveal red tokens, not yellows, so if you reveal a hex totem you can gain extra BP, and if you reveal a hook it now an additional useful interactable token for you. If your next turn has guessed a survivor correctly you can 1-2 punch them for a 1 space carry to hook.
So I suppose pain res power is the fact that if you guess right while moving through a hook at any point, it's a 1 space carry guaranteed.
I think it might still be a little on the weaker side, that cost is pretty high... though I think the another useful case is it gives you some more hook camping power. When a survivor saves another survivor with a hook sabotage they move for free, so a survivors turn will usually be:
- Move in to the space
- Interact with hook
- Take the free move to another space
- The player who just came off hook also moves a free space (often these will be different).
If you plan your move into the hook space and there are no lockers or green tiles in the places surrounding the hook, you can guarantee getting a free wound on the unhook player, and you now have a much greater chance of your next move landing on a survivor space you can interact with, either the unhooked player or the unhooker to throw immediately back on hook (though obviously the hook they were unhooked from will be blocked)
Since they also get to interact in the space they move to after the unhook though, there is a chance you get palleted off, or they crow out, or they jump in a locker and can't be targeted...
So I guess overall it makes you a little more potent in the early game, where your first few turns looking for hooks and totems are a little more dangerous, and makes saves while you're nearby also quite dangerous.
Thing is the perk cost 3BP, with no bonus interaction.
Overcharge give you 2 meaningful interactions (kick Gen and wound a survivor) with 2BP. Most of the time, perks with 2BP add a bonus interaction to the move. Interacting with hooks is not useful interaction for killers.
It would be better if killer interact with a Totem to wound a survivor (+2BP and -3BP) it would be more reasonable.
Though the Designer said when they work on perks, its supposed to work well on the killer.
Still, I dont understand how PainRes would work well for Artist's power.
Unless release Dire Crows force survivors to keep using Prop Crows, giving her free BP to use PainRes.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3728664#Comment_3728664
I think a comeback mechanic is important for both sides, to keep things always 'winnable'. I always like the idea of basekit NOED (with 0 kills going into endgame) for Killer. Fairly simple, and pre-cleansing totems takes roughly 1 extra gen's worth of time.
Survivor is significantly more complicated. At first maybe an action speed boost after (early) deaths might work, but that falls apart if there is enough pressure from the Killer such that 1 is on hook, 1 in chase, and 1 going for the rescue. Survivor ghosts might be a way to keep the 4 Survivor threat, but that would likely be too difficult to implement at this stage. Personally I liked the pre-Mikaela hatch (especially since we now know that Hatch is a tie, not a win for Survivor). Old hatch allowed for a tunneled early kill potentially be punished if someone brought a key. It was anticlimactic, but so is ending someone game so early, so fighting fire with fire.
Some basic QoL for both sides (imo) should be bans. Survivor (maybe only soloq) can ban 1 per 5 Killers released, and Killer the same rate for maps (or realms, not sure, realms helps more against Badham, maps can help ban indoor maps for ranged and open maps for stealth). I personally hate Plague and Oni (both punished by bad teammates far more than normal), and I hate Autohaven (too open+short loops), so my biggest pain points are greatly exaggerated with those conditions. Imo if the bad parts occur less common, people are less likely to be burnt out and ever reach that 'fudge it go next' mindset.@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3728736#Comment_3728736
YES!
See you get it.
This is usually caused by burnout. That's the root cause and that's what we're trying to prevent. Nobody goes into a game with a, ######### it go next, mindset. They get their from numerous bad matches and seeing another match go the same is the final straw, so they don't torture themselves with it.
The people that just mindlessly demonize the other side without the slightest hint of empathy are bizarre to me, because they're doing the same thing they claim to hate so much.
I always think there should be comeback mechanic for both sides (when tunneling is totally removed). There is much be calculated between hook/death count and gen complete.
Currently 4 hooks (1 on each survivor) at 3 Gen remaining is more fair than 3 hooks (on a survivor) at 2 Gen remaining. Eventhough the hook count is worse and survivors have more progress.
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@Crowman said:
I don't see a 100 hooks in your picture.
Would you rather killers slug survivors to death?
There is a difference between making Sabo save a possible play and no hook to make a hook. OP didnt ask Devs to remove all hook.
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@UndeddJester Have you seen Artist & Jonah new perks? I feel something wrong with PainRes.
- PainRes: interact with a hook to injure a survivor in a connected space (3BP)
- Overcharge: interact with a gen to injure a survivor in a connected space, or the same space. (2BP)
PainRes makes you sabo a hook (which is pointless as killer), to injure a survivor in a connected space, this is pretty much similar to Huntress power, except requires 3BP.
OverCharge makes you kick a Gen (useful), to injure a survivor in a connected space. Means you kick a Gen and injure a survivor in one move, requires 2BP.Or I understand the perk wrong?
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Yes, but they need to add fixed hook locations, especially at corners.
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@burt0r said:
Seems like the afk penalty is universal.
Sounds fair to me when I as the killer also can't no longer go afk against a bully squad I am not prepared/equipped for to deal with as a casual, be it perks, killer or basic game experience.
Bleed out is at least a fixed time (except for the real rare toxic juggler). Killer that are outclassed are at the mercy of bully squads and have to endure until the squad loses interest and finally finishes the game, speaking from experience.
Want a penalty to players who are not able to play the game by being slugged because they decided to tab out.
I definitely do not want to meet you irl.
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For me:
- Its when 2 survivors decide to complete their Gens instead of unhook the 3rd survivors (while Im chasing the 4th one).
- 3 or 4 toolboxes, or/and stacking more than 4 perks that related to Gens. I mean they invest alot into Gen related perks/items.
Otherwise, I really dont see how Im making bad play causing 2-3 Gens done in the background as Gen rush. I mean what are they suppose to do? Waiting for teammate to get hooked before doing Gen?
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My kind of DS
