Beatricks
Beatricks
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- Beatricks
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They literally changed Billy's cooldown a few months ago to deincentivize using his chainsaw for map mobility instead of dealing with loops.
Now they literally reward using it for mobility.
There's literally zero consistency, just whatever the person calling the shots feels on any given day. Don't think too hard.
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I'm all for incentivizing not tunneling instead of punishing it.
Unfortunately, I haven't seen a single solution in all these years that would work out as intended. By the nature of the asymmetric gameplay, getting the first survivor out is just such a fundamentally strong tactic that unless it is punished severely, it's just way too strong to ignore.
I'm at the point where I think we just need a casual and a ranked game mode. Even with all the down sides that would cause it would still be a net positive change.
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I don't know her kit enough to decide whether or not this will be a meaningful impact. I'm just hoping she will stop being as much of a DC temptation as Skull Merchant.
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People who know hot play him will still absolutely destroy 99.999% of public matches.
Maybe comp teams might occasionally win now though.
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"Tunneling has become such an issue that we are going to buff DS. Like a year from now, until then we reworked STBFL to encourage and reward tunneling."
*Mmm, chef's kiss*
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@Xernoton said:
Interesting results.
Could you go into more detail on how you rated each of these matches? It's kind of hard to tell how balanced a match is, if you're not using some specific norm (in form of a list of criteria).
I tried to take into account as many variables as humanly possible to judge how likely it was that the other side could have won if things played out just a little differently.
Did the Killer have short or long chases? Did he tunnel, camp, slug or 3 gen? What was his perk and addon loadout? How efficient were my teammates on gens? How often did they drop shack pallet at 5 gens left against an M1 killer without being injured? Obviously, this is all very subjective and hard to judge, but I couldn't think of a system to score the matches on a more objective standpoint. Keeping track of hooks is basically a proxy to that. A killer getting 8 hooks without tunneling and slowdown performed better than a killer who tunneled one survivor and couldn't even get 3 hooks. If anyone has any ideas for an accurate system for the future I'm all ears!
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@CorvusCorax86 said:
"I believe this gives a rough estimate of what matches are like in the 1600+ MMR skill bracket, which is the second highest one, followed by the soft cap that was recently raised."
Do you have data on the brackets (names or values) and is it possible to check where I'm situated in? I haven't finished reading your post but here I got stuck. Where do you get this number?
I actually don't know how much we are allowed to discuss the way the matchmaking works, since they intentionally don't let us see the numbers and we have to make educated guesses. If you look on google, you should find some answers though!
@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/400513/100-soloq-match-statistics-an-sbmm-test
Is this the EU region? Given some of the names you mentioned I would think so.
I know there's significant differences between the regions, with playstyles in the US, South America and Asia ones vastly different. Such as in Asia perks like Self Care are still highly run, and EU being notoriously more "sweaty" and more heavily PC than other regions.
Yes, all these matches were played in the EU region.
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@Nazzzak said:
I love seeing this sort of data so thanks for sharing!
I tracked my own games for a good 6 months and it's interesting, I think by the end I saw a tunneler an average of 1/10 games. But I'm definitely not in high MMR, as you must be, so I imagine people try harder in that bracket than my own. My escape rate settled on 35%, which surprised me tbh. You had a pretty impressive result I must say.
Yeah, there's also the fact that if you look at my match stats, in the beginning, there were more matches were no tunneling took place. But as I kept on escaping, the tunneling instances went up and up and up.
Then again, I truly believe flashlights being disabled was a huge part in my escape rate, I escape significantly less often usually. Might repeat this experiment between events to see how much changed.
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@crogers271 said:
I was going to ask this, but then I realized I could do it myself. I was curious how many streaks you went on as that seems to be my experience, I'll hit a bunch of games were the survivors get crushed, then hit a streak of games where everything feels fine. After doing the streaks I checked a couple of other things.
Your longest streak of dying: 4
Your longest streak of escapes: 9
Your longest streak of team losses: 4
Your longest streak of team wins: 5
Times your team won but you died (eg 1k and you were the one dead): 4
Your average rank: 2.66 (with 1.00 being 1 in all 100 matches and 2.50 being a hypothetically perfectly average score)
-I'm a little surprised your escapes are above the average, but point wise the score's have you being a slightly below average teammate.
Apologies if I made any errors, did counting and math while tired.
Question: What time of day did you roughly play during or was it varied?
Thanks for the data, is always interesting to see.
I think I have an idea as to why my points were that low. Since I was trying to play pretty optimally, I assumed that SoloQ being SoloQ, I had to be cranking out the gens, so repairing took my number one priority. If a teammate's HUD was empty, I assumed they were going for the save and I kept on holding M1. I also didn't cleanse totems, search chests etc, trying to minimalize my time wasted, resulting in doing less and accumulating less bloodpoints. Of course I admit it might just be because I'm bad lol!
Matches were played on the weekdays 14:00-18/19:00 until 100% bonus was on Survivor. On weekends, 12-18:00 until 100& bonus was on Survivor. EU server.
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@Seraphor said:
Interesting and kudos for the effort.
However one thing I find is always missing from these sort of things, is backfill.
You say you never dodged, but you don't say if (and half the time you can't tell so it's probably fair that you can't guess) you were ever backfilled into a lobby that effectively has NO matchmaking taking place.
There's no easy way to track this, but it's a limitation that is always going to skew these sort of stats. How many of the 'extreme' results actually fall outside of the SBMM system, rather than being symptomatic of it.
Admittedly this is probably a greater issue for Killers than it is for Survivors as their own matchmaking result isn't offset with any teammates. A backfilled killer is either a high MMR player getting an easy game or a low MMR killer getting stomped.
So you could for example track if any killers dodged your lobby and were replaced, as this could be the cause for many of your 0K results.
Right, I actually forgot to say this!
At first, I fully intended to keep track of dodging, but as you said, there was no way for me to know if anybody had dodged before I could see it, so I decided to just ignore it.
As far as I can remember, at least 3 or 4 times when more than 2 killers dodged, we got absolutely massacred and only one time was it either a draw or a win for us. Tiny sample size, but backfill seems to be a huge problem for SoloQ, giving higher MMR killers.
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You would be surprised just how often players miss skillchecks.
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My first game I played Billy and put up some BPS so that maybe we could have fun. 2 people immediately killed themselves on hook.
I'm already over the event.
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It's not even comp player, just a bunch of people who seek enjoyment from inflicting suffering on others.
It's a sad truth, but playing DBD during an event is the worst thing that you can do. If you play survivor, you'll get the Knock-Out Nurse slugging until everyone bleeds out and if you switch to killer, have fun playing on Garden of Pain with 4 BNPs.
If only there was a ranked and casual gamemode to put people with similar mindsets against one another.
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@Dogma_loki said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3608955#Comment_3608955
You're entitled to your opinion but there's more to than just a simple "skill issue".
Absolutely, I just think it's the most ignored aspect of this conversation.
1) Skill imbalance when a match is found
2) Lack of information between SoloQ
3) Team mindset
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For Killer:
Be aware of roughly where your MMR is with each killer. For example, if you 4k-ed four or five times in a row with Wraith, it might not be a good idea to play him whenever you are one or two pips away from the next grade. But if you lost five or six games with Doctor, he might be your guy! Mostly important in Iridescent ranks, you can play normally until you hit the brick wall after Gold.
Survivor:
Run Distortion, Calm Spirit, Kindred and We'll Make It. Prioritize avoiding the killer at the beginning of the match and get 2 unhooks and heals if possibly. Do gens and if someone is on death hook, take agro off them. You need two good chases. I usually don't bother once I reach Iri rank 4, SoloQ is very hard to pip up.
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Nurse, Blight, Wesker, Chucky, Skull Merchant, Knight, Chucky, Ghostface, Sadako, Chucky.
Yes, I realize that's not three.
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EU player here, server problems all day long.
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Until his pickrate is higher than Billy, he isn't nerfed enough.
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As someone that has just finished keeping stats for their last 100 SoloQ games (summary thread later this week), I feel somewhat competent to chime in.
I definitely disagree with the idea that the reason SWFs have a higher escape chance is because of them simply working together. At its core, a lot of information can be gleamed with the use of gaming sense and that comes with experience and skill. The single biggest reason of losing in SoloQ more often than not boils down to skill issues. The amount of people I played with that consistently failed basic skillchecks, walked into beartraps that were not visibly obscured, healed against Legion, tombstone Myers etc was astounding.
SoloQ woes are mostly the result of skill issues. And sadly SBMM is not equipped to help in any way.
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I'm currently collecting stats for 100 SoloQ games and as of this moment, I have 68 completed games.
In all of those matches, MFT appears 8 times, so out of 204 survivors, 8 ran it, giving us a 3.9% use rate. I'm curious to see how this will hold up in the long run.
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Funnily enough I'm at a point when I'm not being ironic when I say I'd rather face a Blight/Nurse than an Onryo.
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"The problem with SoloQ is not information but skill level."
Oh man, if only we could have a matchmaking system that put people together according to their skill level. We could call it Skillwise Balanced Match Making or something.
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People have theorized that map RNG depends on whether or not you win or lose a lot. I think one of the devs categorically denied this, but during the period when Hawkins was boosted and I only got it with Wesker but not with Wraith, Sadako or GF I pretty much accepted it as truth.
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So tell me, who wins 99 out of 100 times: the god tier tunneling Nurse/Blight player or the players that hit great skill checks the most consistently?
Yeah, thought so.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v68-aGId0BsSo much for the whole "public SWFs are pushover" myth.
These people did an admirable job facing off against the best of the best sometimes being held back by tourney limitations.
And those don't exist on public servers, no reasons not to send some random killer to Garden of Pain with 4 syringes and meta perks.
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I've noticed about 2-3 weeks ago, that gens seem to be spawning closer to one another than usual on ALL maps. I even had one match on Azarov's resting place where there were two gens on the lower half of the map, and every single other one at the top instead of the usual 3-4 split with one generator in the middle section. I'm convinced BHVR tweaked the generator spawn placement algorithm and it seems that in a bad way.
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I feel like the whole discussion is a little disingenuous.
Your average public killer won't go up against a team THAT strong with multiple tournament winning players in them, but an average SWF against an average Killer will result in a very similar outcome.
Remember when Spookyloopz got absolutely destroyed while playing weaker Killers against some of the best survivors? Otherwise he barely loses once or twice.
The 10k hour Nurse won't care whether it's a tournament winning SWF or just 4 people sweating, but the 800 hour casual Ghostface player will definitely feel the difference between SWF and SoloQ.
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It's hard to tell, but I haven't noticed a big enough change in numbers personally. SoloQ is hell, but that's just business as usual. My survivors give up when it's super lopsided, but not more often than average.
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Literally don't. Every single time I take off Kindred because I need the perk slot, I put it back after a few days. It's absolutely necessary, not even a question about it.
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At this point I don't even mean it as a meme when I say:
SBMM doesn't exist.
Two days ago I played against the best Twins player on the EU server and then literally the next game I got an 89 hour Legion who barely had any good perks. He got 2 hooks and it wasn't even a particularly gen focused team.
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No, the max DC I got with bots was two while playing Myers of all killers, and not even using his best addons, plus playing the game normally. I guess they just got mad that they got downed. 2 hooked the other two survivors who were very thankful and we all went our separate ways.
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@HommeBizarre said:
When you enter a match there are 2 options given to you :
Either you will suck the whole match or you will be too good for the match
There is no in-between... If the killer doesn't put pressure on him, it's you thats put pressure on him.
And I don't unerstand how in a horror gae you are allowed as a victim to put pressure on the killers/villains/"the personne you are supposed to be scared off"
According to Peanits (https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3591596#Comment_3591596) whatever metric the developers use to judge a match to be "balanced" is giving them the statistics that enough matches are balanced to where they believe that SBMM is working. Not sure how it is possible to prove them wrong without the data. Sure, every high level player knows that the overwhelming vast majority of trials played are super one-sided either for the killer or the survivors, but that's not the proof that we need right now.
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Oppressive 1v1 but not busted in 1v4. Basically if you are SoloQ you are dead, while SWFs can use comp strats to get at least 3 people out.
Obviously the Killer's gaming skill matters, if they are bad, then they are like a bad Nurse or Blight, potentially scary but not broken.
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For the first time since he got released, I didn't groan when I went up against a Wesker.
These are dark times.
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1) Perk loadout should be visible in the lobby. I understand there's going to be some increased lobby dodging, but the game is waaay past the point of needing this feature. It's non negotiable.
2) Reassurance should pop up next to the survivor's name/icon on the HUD with a little timer.
3) An active Deliverance should pop up next to the survivor's name/icon when they are hooked so nobody wastes time.
4) An active DS should do the same thing, to avoid the rest of the team popping the last gen and disabling it. Bonus points for DS into Adrenaline play.
4) I would personally like for all perks to be on the hud and light up on use, but this could be very clunky, so I'm not dead set on it. But many perks need to be communicated.
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As someone that's usually accused of thinking everything is tunneling, I feel like that is one of the most clear-cut cases of the survivor asking for it. The endurance is there to help against tunneling, if somebody deliberately wastes it, I don't see a reason why the killer shouldn't capitalize on it. The killer gave them a chance but they didn't take it, end of story.
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@Peanits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3591540#Comment_3591540
Please don't assume things, this is completely untrue. Kill rate is not a metric that we use to judge matchmaking. We're more concerned with things like rating differences, match data (was it one sided, or was it a close game), and most importantly, how people actually feel about their matches. If anything, it would be the complete opposite; if we saw a large number of 4 kill and 0 kill matches and nothing in between, it would tell us that something is seriously wrong.
And yet in all these years of SBMM, you have not even once released stats on how many games end up as 1k / 2k / 3-4k.
Interesting coiincidence.
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Because it's yet another killer where the counterplay is "Just hope the player is bad lol".
You literally have to play comp strats of holding shift w into the opposite corner of the gens being worked on.
And in SoloQ people just don't pressure gens nearly enough to make it count.
The end result is an incredibly boring and unfun experience. The most exciting thing in DBD is chase. If you turn that into "will I die before or after vaulting this pallet?" people will be less inclined to play. How shocking.
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Not an outright codex, but I do try to behave in a way I would like to see other killers behave.
If I'm SoloQing and my team has been garbage while I gave the killer a good looping, I very much appreciate hatch.
I don't tunnel off the hook, but if I run into the survivor while patrolling, chasing, I'm not exactly going to turn a blind eye to build pressure, especially if the gens are flying.
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SoloQ has been pretty much unplayable for a couple of months for me. Constant P100 Nurses and Blights who didn't just sink a lot of BP into their characters, but also a lot of time since they are really good at playing.
Teammates not running a full anti-tunnel build to carve out a couple of extra seconds.
Giving up against very weak killers (don't get me wrong, I'm not outright happy to see a Legion or a Singularity, but this Kate gave up on hook after she ran a Larry for three gens and the last two gens were started as well, like what the hell?).
SoloQ is just not worth it right now. The game might be the most balanced it has ever been, but it is also the most stale and boring experience.
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Okay, I did a bit of experimenting.
The last three skill checks of the game count. If you hop on a generator, get 3 great skill checks and throw yourself at the killer, it will count.
You don't have to play as Feng, I did it as Thalita and I got it.
You don't have to survive, I got it when I died on hook.
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Can't lose hope if you never had any!
Blight has been untouched for years and everyone agrees that at least the addons need to be gutted, yet nothing happens and all the experienced Blight mains are competing to see how many thousands of wins they can get in a row.
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It's really not that inconsistent.
The beginning of the game is the weakest point for the Killer, survivors have every resource available on the map, perks, items etc.
Endgame is the strongest point for the killer. Resources have been used up, survivors are potentially dead, strong perks have been disabled, anticamping disabled, NOED still exists for some bizarre reason, etc. Survivors need every help they can get.
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Sadly, I'm still getting the high MMR monsters and my SoloQ teammates are even worse than usual.
Gotta love getting bled out by a P100 Blight without anyone ever getting hooked.
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@Peanits said:
I can clarify a bit. I'm not sure where the 60% kill rate = 50% win rate bit comes from, but I don't recall it being said by us. We don't tend to talk about "win rates" because a win is still somewhat subjective. Some people count a pip as a win, others if they get 3 kills, some even consider only 4 kills as a win. If we're talking about solely kills, kill rate and win rate are equal. The kill rate is an average, not a guarantee. You might kill 4 survivors one match and 0 the next, but that'll still average out to 50%. (When you average out thousands of matches, that killer's actual kill rate becomes much more accurate.)
Certain things may influence it, like you've mentioned, but it's a bit too nebulous to speculate on. There are also things that survivors may do to inflate that kill rate, like giving the killer a pity kill after a rough match, giving up when the hatch is closed, and so on. They would cancel each other out to some degree, but exactly how much influence each has is impossible to identify. These would have to be incredibly common to have a significant influence on the total kill rates.
"The kill rate is an average, not a guarantee. You might kill 4 survivors one match and 0 the next, but that'll still average out to 50%"
And that is the root of all the problems balancing wise.
If 1000 matches are played and 500 are 4k while 500 are 4 escapes, BHVR will pat themselves on the back for a matchmaking well done, despite the fact that there wasn't a single even remotely balanced game in there after all.
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Decisive Strike needs to be reverted to five seconds and OTR should stack with BT, like Mettle of Man.
"GEN SPEED TOO FAST!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiDirlaBuqQSkill.
Issue.
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Absolutely!
Also, can we pretty please with a cherry on top get rid of the skill check as well? Nowadays it serves no purpose but to penalize less experienced survivors and it's just a leftover remnant of a bygone era.
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Emerald Herald skin for Kate please.
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Bubba, Legion, Pig, Doctor, Dredge, Slinger.
Huntress if their ping is good and there isn't three survivor's worth of space between the hit and my collision model.
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This has actually been brought up a couple of times in the past few months. I have also lost survivors more often at turns recently.