Atrushan88
Atrushan88
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@Speshul_Kitten said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/695875#Comment_695875
I didn’t make the Ebony, as far as I know it’s fair game. Why you disagree has more to do with morals than facts.
I think that's pretty much everyone's argument, morals. You're running newer players away from the game by being an ######### to them. I mean other killers do it too, but this is why we can't have nice things.
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@Richter_Cade said:
Okay, demolishing new players isn't very cool but neither is blaming him for doing it. He didn't make the matchmaking h system, he just played the game. Chill out guys.
He brought an ebony, I mean...he has to take some blame.
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@Talmeer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/693007#Comment_693007
1- The most killers in dbd have a reason to looking only on themselfs, because even for no reason, they are getting nerfed or never buffed.
Imo, the goal should be to put every killer on Spirit level, after everything I have read about her (I don't own her, so I can only build my opinion on what I have read about her).
The Legion nerf was a prime example for this. If we talk about the old Legion, we talk about a killer who had one of the worst kill rates in the whole game and that is not my opinion -> If you like you can search the official statistics to that (I bet they are still somewhere online, maybe even in this forums).
Shortly before the Legion patch, bhvr had post this statistic.
If you think now about that and use your common sense, you would think, that they would have try to buff the Legion, so that she gets similar kill rates as the most other killers -> wrong. We got a patch with a ton of nerfs in exchange of 1 (in letters ->one<-) buff (the faster base movement speed).
It is very, veeery rar that a killer just get buffed, even in the situation we are in (aka. a situation where the most killers are not on Spirit level).
Also, you get sometimes the feeling, that bhvr handles killers and survivors differently.
The Legion is again here a prime example: While some Legions have got their deserved ban for exploiting... Where exactly were the survivor bans for the 2 survivor perk exploits that have follow on the Legion patch?
I have nothing read from a banwave towards them. Have you?
So... Don't judge us killers too hard if we look at first at ourselfs. That's mostly because a desert need first to freeze before we see anything good (symbolically speeching).
2- The old Legion was faster. I had a pretty known situation to me at the patch day that I could very good compare to each other. I had follow a survivor to a nearby loob spot and now the following had happen (I will write it two times, so that also you can see the difference and, ah yes... Both times the Legion had no addons.):
Pre patch Legion situation: I had vault over the pallet with frenzy. Then the survivor would have had a few seconds to either start the little pallet game, or he would have been hitten by me.
My situation with the new Legion on the patch day: I had vault over the pallet with frenzy. Then the survivor had unreachable run away for me while he was just running straight forward.
No pallet game, no further attempt to loop one more time, no nothing.
I had just stay there with a open mouth after that.
Still I had mori him later, since that day was for me my vengeance day, but still... That makes it not better.
This survivor would have never survive against the old Legion in this situation, if he had not do the pallet mini game. That can you believe me.
And that are situations, you can't nowhere read, but that are also situations where Legion mains see that bhvr had at least tryd to trick us and as said before - it hasen't work.
The reason the survivor would not have survived old Legion is because one, you're comparing a very short distance, and probably only counting the time you were in Frenzy(in addition, you could actually use your power to kill someone, which likely wasn't intended in the first place). Obviously, in Frenzy, old Legion is faster for the first 6 seconds. New Legion however closes far more distance while in frenzy, because it lasts longer.
As for survivors and killers being treated differently, this is honestly just your imagination. Survivor nerfs happen just as often as killer nerfs. You just don't realize it because you probably don't play survivor at all, or very little, and probably don't even look at the patch notes for survivor nerfs. Just in the past few patches survivors have lost: fast vaults(well not totally lost but a lot more difficult and it basically destroyed a mind game survivors could use against the killer), darker clothing, had loops that are completely pointless made on Springwood, can't see past walls on Coldwind, Mettle of Man nerf, End Game Collapse, and probably a lot more than I can think of. As for killer nerfs we've seen Pig "nerfs"(more of an adjustment that was necessary for a huge survivor nerf), A Ghostface buff and the some nerfs to the buff specifically(nothing made him weaker), and...I think that's it? I'm not saying the devs give preferential treatment to killers either, I'm just showing you that you're wrong about them treating survivors better.
As for the Legion bug, that as far as I'm aware was a thing for a while, and basically made the game unplayable. The Sprint Burst exploit was nowhere near that, and I could still catch people using it, albeit with a slightly longer time frame.
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@slingshotsurvivor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/694163#Comment_694163
I have to say I am loving it! I did get a msg saying "GG" and that made me smile.
I also must of scared another survivor cause all I got was "I almost peed at the gate gg".
With the new tip from @Atrushan88 imma have some fun with insidious too! 😈🤫😂
Why would you use Insidious? The point of basement Demogorgon would be you can get to the basement from anywhere. It's sort of like Hag's basement, but you can't flashlight it.
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Have you seen Agitation+Iron Grasp yet? Basement Demogorgan is really strong too. His portal covers the entire entrance into the basement.
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BHVR is not going to halt the creation of new characters considering both you have to buy the game to play it and they just released a 13 dollar DLC that is based on an extremely in right now TV show.
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@DBDbuildsYT said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/693187#Comment_693187
Yawn...
You don't play legion, you clearly have zero understanding on the topic
try and see how they actually work, and express an informed opinion not theories
Prove anything I said wrong. True used Legion's power SEVERAL times during each match. He didn't win DESPITE Legion, he won WITH Legion. There was no theory in anything I said in what you just quoted me. Killers are supposed to be more skilled to win. You can't use me not playing Legion as an excuse for expecting Legion to win against survivors more skilled than them.
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@Decarcassor said:
@Atrushan88 I think this update is a very big hint from the devs that maybe survivors should consider waking up more often against Freddy. 😴
I mean he has an addon combo where you're pretty much screwed if you don't. The only thing is that add on is ultra rare+ very rare and has a huge tell when you're using it. The issue is, if you're focused on waking up so much, you don't win, because Freddy is a damn good killer whether you're asleep or awake. You trying to walk halfway across the map just slows the game too much and survivors waking you up is too damn slow after the first time, and the only other way is to reveal yourself to him and then he gets to teleport to where you are. Not waking up is the better choice.
That said if multiple asleep people are all on one gen I will intentionally fail a skill check to wake us all up. That's the only time I'll intentionally try to wake up. And I obviously don't do that if he has Red Paint Brush.
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@Decarcassor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/693894#Comment_693894
Asleep and therefore Oblivious survivors can still hear Freddy's nursery rhyme. It's not his Terror Radius. It's a sound cue that emmanate from Freddy that you can only hear when you are in the dream world.
But as you said, BT does not work while not in TR, Oblivious survivors are not in TR, and no one really wakes themselves up anymore.
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@Decarcassor said:
When you are affected by Oblivious, the killer's Terror Radius no longer exist for you.
This mean that you no longer hear the heartbeat and that killer or survivor perks that interact with the TR don't work for you. You cannot be affected by something like Coulrophobia or Unnerving Presence, but you also can't use Borrowed Time or Stake Out.
There are currently only 2 killers that can inflict Oblivious. The Demogorgon when you stand close to one of his portals and The Nightmare when you fall asleep.
Wait that means Freddy is the new best camper...
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@AshleyWB said:
No BBQ = the killer won't have much reason to stray very far from you. It's kinda good for both killers and Survivors
Tell that to the 10 killers in a row yesterday who camped.
edit: buggy forum again, made me double post AND quote my own message.
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I'm confused. If all you guys say that the tracking is not what you run it for and the tracking is bad, why wouldn't you want the haste effect from DH permanently until you hit a survivor?
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@NullSp3c said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/693256#Comment_693256
For some reason they are the best. I'm not moving the discussion to anywhere. Legion has problems and that's what I'm mentioning here.
If I mentioned all the better killers, it's because you can see a pattern here. I also said some others like pig(for example), that has a dash to help in chases, traps to stall the game and being EXTREMELY LETHAL, impossible skillchecks doctor is also unique.
But then you have killers that simply walk like clown, wraith (some builds are exception), etc. Even these can use their power to either be lethal, or/and to mess with survivors heads like doctor.
Legion has no unique playstyle like he had before (without the exploits) and now he has nothing. All he does is walk and m1 someone. Now, don't compare it to spirit, they have nothing similar to each other. And because she has a unique playstyle, she can actually be top tier and be real fun to play.
I mean, you take too many risks to get a little bit of stall potential that can't snowball because it has so many restrictions.
There are no unique builds for Legion? Hm, I guess there isn't a map-wide terror radius addon for Legion after all. I could have sworn there was. You could probably also do Smiley Face Pin + Knockout + Third Seal so they don't know why they can't see their friends on the ground, thinking it's Smiley Face Pin, or Third Seal, then come to find out it's Knock Out(Otz did a similar build with GhostFace with his Outdoor Security Camera to slug everyone, but Legion has sight of survivors built into his power, so it could work similarly, except he doesn't have one hit downs, so it might take a bit longer. As for your risks and stall potential, it's not the stall potential that's Legion's most important power imo. The stall potential is just a bonus for making Legion's power unable to actually down people due to if he could, he'd be too powerful due to how easily he could catch up to survivors. the information is the important part.
Also honestly I think Legion Pin would be pretty good honestly. You can track survivors easily, and they can't heal for 60 seconds, should be a pretty easy down.
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@NullSp3c said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/693233#Comment_693233
You still need to be very good at mindgames to be successful with "all" that information.
Unlike other killers that have a UNIQUE game style like spirit, nurse, hillbilly, hag, freddy and some others.
Legion's got taken. The power and the identity.
I'm pretty sure most other killers require mind games. From what I always hear Spirit is always about mind games. You're comparing Legion to the absolute best killers, while saying Legion is the absolute worst. You're also moving the goal post quite a bit.
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@NullSp3c said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/693187#Comment_693187
He is not the best legion player, but instead a guy that really understands the game and its mechanics/tactics as killer. As HE said, it was not because of Legion, it was because of the 115% movement speed that is common to 80% of the roaster. Which means that Legion by himself doesn't mean anything.
The fact that he can hit survivors with m1 and the mindgames in chases is what made him win. He basically said that his power was worthless, but with other words.
I watched all three of those videos and he used his power several times to find the other survivors, and in the first video I posted, he even said that was useful. He also didn't say it was the 115% movement speed in any of those videos that I saw either. Every time I see him play Legion, I hear him say "Tell me where your friends are", constantly, meaning he is using his power for it's effects. Can you really tell me that if he was just a 115% killer without Killer Instinct True would have won that match?
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@DBDbuildsYT said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/692796#Comment_692796
Legion can win only when the killer's player skill out matches the survivors.
But you win despite legion not thanks to legion.
Legion is garbage, try them for ten games in a row at high ranks
Any killer can only win when the killer's player skill outmatches the survivors. That's kind of the point of a PVP game. Are you saying that a killer with worse skill than survivors should win?
As for winning "despite Legion", that last game of True's had him using perks that literally countered each other. So I guess True is the best Legion player in existence if all other Legion mains are having trouble while using Ruin and other perks that most M1 killers need.
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@Talmeer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/692796#Comment_692796
I have not watch those videos yet, since I need to make me ready in a few minutes for bed, but I wouldn't take streamers opinions to highly in dbd, after my experience.
Sometimes the videos look almost as would they have hang with the survivors in a chat and saying to them something like "play extra stupid". Don't know if that is true, but I had watch a lot of Legion op videos in the past, linked by survivors that I have discuss with and sometimes... Wish I had only one time survivors like I have seen in some streamer videos in my matches...
Thats not bad if you like to make a tutorial video on how to play better as killer, or how to do counterplays better as survivor, since everybody can better learn when the whole things happen more slowly as usual in a match, but when someone trys to show his "opness", or the opness of a killer, it gets a bitter taste.
Imo, the people with the best knoweldge about something are the mains of whatever, because they play usually their killer, or survivor perk (as example) multiple times/each day.
Then the devs, since they doing hopefully a lot of testing (maybe? - not sure after the Legion patch).
And then coming the people that sometimes a killer/perk play, for whatever reason (that would be where I would settle the most streamers in if they not main the things they are talking about - then you can push them 2 steps higher on the ladder).
Aaand then coming the people that had never, ever play that killer/perk, if we like to go down the "they knowing how it really is" ladder.
With that, I don't like to say, that "Legion mains" know anything better... I have a great knoweldge about the pre patch Legion and a very bad memory on my testgames on the Legion patch day, but I bet you could me teach some lessons about some survivor perks, since I have only play rarly survivors (guess 70-75% of my gametime was pre patch Legion, then maybe 10% survivors and the rest other killers like Meyers and Clown as example).
Sorry for "intervene" here a bit. I just like to do my part, so that everybody feels ok with the discussion thats going on here.
I disagree that mains of a killer have the overall goal in mind of the game, as I prefer balance over anything regarding killer or survivor, as mains of a killer only play that specific thing and ignore anything from any other side, only to make their side better. They may know a lot about their killer, but they only take their experiences with that killer, rather than the overall game, in my experience. TrueTalent plays all killers pretty much equally, and nowhere did he say Legion was OP, and neither did I. I don't know why you guys keep assuming that I'm saying anything about Legion being strong or weak.
For example, when Pig lost the ability for traps to kill survivors if they had one on their head and it wasn't activated, a few Pig mains were saying that she didn't need that "nerf", but honestly it was more of a clarity issue, and it just would not be fair because of EGC. If you were playing as a survivor during the EGC with a trap on your head(I've had it happen to me), there's not enough time for you to both get the trap off your head and get out the gates if you have the EGC timer running, unless you get extremely lucky. Even if you managed to get it off the first time, if the closest box was too far away, you might forget where the exit gates were. The devs knew what they were doing in that case, because you can STILL have those two timers going if the Pig times it right, and it's brutal and basically a death sentence, but there were Pig mains who were up in arms about this.
@NullSp3c said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/692796#Comment_692796
Your fact is right and wrong at the same time. New Legion is faster in the long run but in the short run the old one was better.
We must not also forget that old frenzy was much more dynamic because you could use it at 25%, which for me, was the worst nerf in frenzy (except the one that you can't kill someone with it). Even without the better distance, you weren't dependant on a single use frenzy but instead, if the first goes wrong (you only hit 1 survivors), you will always have a second one ready for you.
This brings room for error, and the new one doesn't. The new one has all of this combined with 1 miss, ff down, vaulting speed is so bad, no blood pools, bigger stun and survivors have a lot of reaction time because the speed is slower, so you get that bigger distance compared to the old one much later.
You would prefer playing clown to have fun, because clown at least is an m1 killer with a power that isn't bland. You can be creative with it. Feral frenzy's case is a very different case in terms of flexibility...
It doesn't seem better to me.
EDIT: After seeing the last video (haven't seen the first one tho) tru3 says that he was doing well not because of Legion, but because he played so much dbd that he has chase potential by m1ing them down, as a veteran player should be capable of doing.
Not really. If we were only to compare them by their movement while in FF, new Legion moves 50 meters in FF without hitting a survivor. Old Legion moves 31. New Legion is faster in every way, unless we count them by only 6 seconds, but that's not fair to new Legion because new Legion's FF lasts longer, and no one's gonna only run for 6 seconds in most cases. New Legion is faster only slightly however if both are using their FF EVERY TIME it's up, but again, no one is going to use their power off cooldown every time. There will be times they won't use it, or will be moving normally waiting to use their power when they see a survivor. This makes new Legion much faster, because of the base speed increase. However I did say that short bursts old Legion was faster, but for all intents and purposes, and in almost every instance, new Legion is faster. The only difference is it feels slower because the gaps between movement speeds are closer, and the top speed is reduced slightly. In short, the only way Legion is slower is if we give old Legion every advantage he has over new Legion without using anything new Legion has over old Legion. In a fair comparison, new Legion is faster, even if it's only slightly. The best thing to say is that new and old Legion are almost the same speed, with new being slightly faster.
As for all of your other issues, this is personal preference and not related at all to being an actual issue. Honestly if you think about it, it's better for him not to miss because if he misses then he has to commit to the survivor. Unless they WANT him to commit to them, then it's better to let him get the hit if he's closed the gap on them enough. I don't think missing and losing your power is a bad thing, because if you miss a swing, then you're already right up on them and 4 seconds is not that bad when right up on someone, this also means you can down them.
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@DBDbuildsYT said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/690686#Comment_690686
You have stated theory, and theory doesn't make legion viable.
You can be viable IN SPITE of legion, if you are extremely good but legion is an indefensible pile of trash.
Show us any video evidence of it being viable or your opinions don't really matter
Tell me something. Where have I said anywhere that Legion is "viable"? I have said facts, that is literally all I have stated, and have not argued for or against Legion as a killer. I have not stated anything about Legion's strength or weakness in the game at all. You're just putting words in my mouth. That said..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3UTtzvmezc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1B_mLlQKrw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsOPbQnBreEI wouldn't say Legion is as bad as you say.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/663561#Comment_663561
My point is, that an unfinished product is buggy, that you should try being constructive and persuasive when explaining what the problems you experience with the product are, instead of coming off as angry and abusive. That's what you're supposed to do when you voluntarily beta test something. Giving the specs and the type of device you are using helps a lot for them to fix things as well.
Instead what you did, was that you complained that the product was #########, listed the problems you had, and then continued to insult them some more. This doesn't help and makes it harder to take you seriously when they are looking for constructive feedback. You say that you understand it's a beta, but the way your post comes across makes it sound like you actually don't understand at all.
To be fair the actual game that isn't in beta is buggy as all hell. I don't think the devs properly test things, and I even wonder if they have a bug test team.
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Well, I tried to camp, and I couldn't bring myself to. I hate it, why do ######### get to do this without feeling a thing. The worst I could do was go up on the tractors nearish the hook and watch as survivors tried to unhook their teammate as Freddy(being invisible while they're awake), and even then I felt terrible.
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The reason I took off We'll Make it. It VERY RARELY gets any use. I had one game where an Adam decided to sit on a gen while I emoted away to try to get him to let me, until we finished it and my We'll Make It ran out. THEN he wanted the heal. Sorry but with the Hag surely coming after we just finished that gen and no more We'll Make It, you're on your own. Of course that Adam shortly after was downed.
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@NullSp3c said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/689377#Comment_689377
These afirmations only make me realise that you don't play Legion and you're saying this without a check.
Scratch marks last for 7 seconds (4 with lightweight), BUT Feral Frenzy completely removes blood pools and scratch makrs form the map and does not respawn them.
You only see scratch marks created a second after the fatigue ended. This is very easy to notice when playing Legion, even for the first time.
After that statement, what you said is only good on paper. You only hit 2-4 survivors with your power once in 20 games(no exageration tho) I play at red ranks but I'm currently at purple ones because of rank reset (just in case of the "rank 20" argument).
Assuming this, not even in map traversal his power is good, you reach further and faster by simply walking.
In the case you don't bealieve me:
4.6*14=64,4(simply walking)
5.0*10 + 2.7*4=60.8(Using frenzy)
Having a power that (almost) only gives information is not what you can call "decent" or "viable". What are you gonna do with all that stall and information if you can't step up the sacrificing process? Only this "benefit" in exchange for around 6 counterplay options.
It's more or less what @phantasmal said.
My point was that if you are chasing someone, they are going to still be leaving scratch marks when you come out of your power. You shouldn't be able to "lose someone" when your power ends. That said, no I haven't played Legion because I don't own them. I would if I could, but I don't have the money for that right now and want to get all the perks I can from the shrine before I buy characters with my iridescent shards considering the cost is insane. I've faced Legions who have hit 3+ survivors multiple times in a match btw, in fact most I have faced have managed.
@phantasmal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/689377#Comment_689377
Then what were you trying to say? If the splitting up against the Legion is counterplay to his power, then that's his counterplay. Other characters have counterplay as well. Counterplay is not something Legion specific, and you have ways of forcing survivors to need to be closer together, through gen manipulation
That he doesn't need a counter to every aspect of his power.
As for losing sight of scratch marks, last I checked, 4 seconds is not long enough for scratch marks disappear, last I checked, they last for 10 seconds(around 7 with lightweight).
The scratch mark hiding is done in a very quirky way, this is something you'll prob notice if you play Legion a bunch but the new perk, Fixated, blows the lid wide open; scratch marks are flat out set to not spawn until after the FF fatigue worn off.
Likely done this way cause it has very similar effect and up until tomorrow only the killer could ever see them. But it's actually makes a huge difference since if you loose sight of your target you won't really have a trail to pick up. Like they vault a window just as your fatigue kicks in.
(For the record, Dance with Me hides your scratch marks for 3 seconds. So basically every fatigue is like a free, even more powerful DwM+Lithe combo for all survivors.)
I think blood works normally as both sides can already see it? Never actually verified tho.
Oh and Legion when using his power every chance he gets is not slower than old Legion, as I stated(with math).
I mean you said you did math but you never actually showed the numbers afaik. I also did some quick basic calculations tho.
(6*5,28 + 15*4,4 + 3*2,7)/(6+15+3) = 4,4075
(10*5 + 20*4,6 + 4*2,7)/(10+20+4) = 4,494
So yeah, the average speed might just be slightly bit better (.086m/s, or. ~2% improvement)
There are a few things to consider that are hard to quantify. Like old Legion could use a partially charged FF but also lost more charges per M1 hit, making old FF a lot more dynamic. And this wasn't the only change Legion got, one slight buff vs 10+ nerfs and fixes on a mediocre killer, is that really an equivalent exchange.
I dunno, high high and low low sounds better than always mediocre when it comes to their speed.
-You looking through the advertisment videos of the killers and then you see this fast running and stabbing guy in one video...
Watching the spotlight video today is really awkward, it specifically points out that Legion has no cooldown on missed attacks :P
Tho there are a few others spotlights that are also outdated and inaccurate due to balance changes. Like the Last Breath spotlight. Or the Halloween chapter as well, almost all the perks were changed over the course of years.
I am pretty sure I showed the math and the numbers. New Legion is still slightly faster. They may feel slower, but they are not. Not by much, sure, but they are still faster, even if it is very little. I don't think it was ever intended to be a straight buff though. After looking back, somehow the math I did is missing. I don't know how, as I was typing it out in the text box. Maybe I deleted it because it was too much information, but I thought I kept it there specifically so no one could be all "bologna! Your math is wrong!". It has to be in one of my messages somewhere...Either way, if you've done the math yourself then you can realize that if Legion is using their power AT EVERY moment they can, they are AT LEAST the same speed, with Legion being slightly faster. Legion however will not use their power AT EVERY OPPORTUNITY, making the base speed increase a bigger buff than you'd think.
@DBDbuildsYT said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/689459#Comment_689459
This guy does NOT play legion at all, plain and simple
What does it matter if I play them or not? The only thing I have mentioned are facts, not opinions. If I could play them, I would, but I can't. Legion is NOT slower, and the devs said(which was the original thing I said, which got so many people to argue with me), that if he kept both his old FF speed AND his new base speed, he would be able to traverse the map far too quickly. If people want Deep Wounds gone and only want his movement speed as his power, they for SURE cannot increase his speed, his current speed even may be too fast, because he will just down someone extremely quickly as he does not have to wipe his blade in FF, and moves faster than any other killer except for CLOAKED Wraith by a 1% difference. Do you know how fast cloaked Wraith moves? Fast enough to go between two doors on the opposite sides of the map and catch the last survivor EASILY after closing the hatch. Think of Deep Wounds as a limiter on Legion as well as a stall tactic. I can't imagine Legion NOT having it, because it would make them far too powerful.
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Winning games as survivor. I die around 95% of my games, and only manage to pip up despite my deaths. To be fair, the killers always camp, and the other survivors always die, leaving me alone or with one other person. I'm usually the third or fourth to die. Usually they end in 4ks, meaning a total defeat of survivors.
As killer, my biggest problem is usually not being good at facing those rank 1 survivors who are SWF with their rank 16-20 ones. That said I've been trying to rank up as survivor so that I don't have such frustrating games when playing Survivor right now so my killer rank is #########. I'm also ######### on Nurse. I've practiced her a few times, but she's rather difficult to play, and I am on PS4.
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@Kabu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/689377#Comment_689377
I love Legion though I've been salty about how they were handled so I don't play them as much. If something was changed since their nerf I might not have caught it. From what I remember, the marks and blood disappear completely during frenzy. When it ends they don't show up again until the survivor starts running and makes new scratches. Or was this changed?
After rereading our comments I understand the miscommunication. I was talking about getting to survivors and it's effectiveness in helping with downs rather just moving around the map.
I was answering this: "how are Spirit and Nurse's powers lethal when they're literally for movement/tracking and have no lethality to them whatsoever?"
I explained this then compared it to Legion's. As for where lethality came into the conversation: Legion gets stunned AND has a cooldown despite their power being non-lethal (directly or indirectly) which seems overkill compared to other killers whos power can be lethal (lethality explained in above comments). He can get around and stall (depends on build) but can't do much else. Running around and stalling can be great but a large part of the objective is to actually get downs and hooks which his power can actually hinder.
In regard to Legion's stalling potential, who likes mending simulator? It might be effective but it sucks for the survivors. I say that even though I use thana and sloppy with the cooldown and blade addons.
@Kabu said:
As on apology for the miscommunication here is a picture of my cat @Atrushan88 :
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/004/OCLCLECDX84H.jpg
You're welcome =P
At some point Legion will be out of their power during a chase. I would assume this is when you actually start becoming lethal. While you have multiple people injured, you have one who will be downed. I feel like it's a good tradeoff as you're taking away more health states in one chase than you would normally under most circumstances. As for the negatives to Legion's power, with certain addons/perks you can see every survivor on the map, basically knowing what they're doing. It can be a map-wide BBQ without requiring a down. I would treat Legion as an information based killer, with stall potential, rather than a killer who is meant to down people with their power. While this may not be what's fun to people, I feel like this is what they were going for with Legion. Mending isn't really fun as a survivor, no, but Legion needs something other than "increased speed". I don't feel like removing Deep Wounds while keeping Legion's increased speed would be fair to survivors, if Legion was allowed to keep it after hitting someone, because then they would just be able to chase someone and down them super quick, while even vaulting pallets(and breaking while vaulting with button). Killers are already much faster than survivors, and then you factor in bloodlust, I don't think we need a killer who can chase someone and down them that quickly. Also keep in mind Legion when in FF does not need to wipe his blade, unlike other killers. It would just be too strong.
The only way I would suggest keeping Legion's current base speed, and reverting his FF speed(which is what most people want and do not think would be overpowered), would be again, if he was forced to stay in his power until it ended, rather than be able to end it on his own/missing attacks. This at the very least would force him to search for other targets after hitting the one, or wait out a 10 second timer and then a 4 second stun if he wants to completely ignore it after the first hit and continue chasing the one survivor. 4.6 base MS with 5.28 FF speed would be just too much to be able to use it, then cancel your power once you were right on their ass, and then catch up to them almost instantly afterwards.
Overall though, my argument was never about his lethality, him being OP, or anything. My argument was simply that overall, Legion's movement speed is the same or better(in most cases better, only the same/VERY SLIGHTLY better if Legion was using their power every second it was up). Legion only FEELS slower, because the gap between their base movement speed and FF movement speed was lessened, in addition to their FF movement speed being lowered. It makes you feel slower, when you're really not.
I could try to come up with ways where Legion could just not have DW and be fast, but I don't think it would be balanced in any form. Legion needs some form of limiter if they're going to move fast. 5.0 movement speed is already 125% movement speed. That's way too strong for not having some limit. Wraith has to be in a non combative state for that kind of move speed.
Oh and cute kitty.
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@Kabu said:
Why does that have to be explained @Atrushan88? Nurse, Spirit, Billy and so on can use their power to down a survivor. Whether directly with the power (Billy) or indirectly (Nurse and Spirit). By indirectly I mean the power itself does not down survivors but it gives an advantage that can lead to a down.
Legion is not able to directly or indirectly use their power to down someone (beyond tracking which every killer has in sone form). Killer instinct (Legion's tracking via Ferel Frenzy) reveals the locations of those within their terror radius, which is nice. Though, during frenzy, most basic tracking tools are wiped(scratches, blood, blurry vision etc) to compensate for killer instinct. This can make it difficult to track a survivor if you cancel your power near them for the down (then eating the damn stun) as you have no scratches or blood to track with once frenzy ends.
If you are able to reach one of them via frenzy you have to make a choice. Cancel frenzy then eat an awful 4 second stun, hit them giving them borrowed time if they didn't already, or eat the stun if you hit someone who has borrowed time. None of these outcomes result in a down.
Using different wording: At best, you can cancel the power near an injured survivor rather than hitting them which gives them a speed burst (they still get a 4 second head start and scratches plus blood were wiped during frenzy) for the down. Hit someone, injuring them, giving them borrowed time, as well as a speed boost. Or, at worst, hit someone who has borrowed time which stuns you for 4 seconds and gives the survivor a speed boost.
In short, Legion can injure but is never able to down someone with his power (franks is negligible with how terrible it is).
@Kabu said:
In regards to map traversal, Legion only moves 10% faster during frenzy (two play with your food tokens). Yes it lasts longer but not so much so that it grants much of an advantage, if any, to getting around quicker. Like what has been stated in this thread already. Oftentimes, it's better to walk rather than use frenzy to travel.
Frenzy is not fast enough or long enough (without add ons) to effectively be used for travel. Plus, you're stunned for 4 seconds as well as needing to wait out the cool down before using it again. On top of all that, scratches and blood are erased while using frenzy which further diminishes the value of whatever distance you were able to travel. This allows survivors to hide/escape much easier from a Legion who uses frenzy for traveling.
As I stated before, Legion is meant to use his power to spread his damage and stall survivors, not down them, and his power, when chained, lasts longer, so I disagree with the sentiment that it can't be used for travel, as any time you hit a survivor with it, you ARE using it to travel. As for losing sight of scratch marks, last I checked, 4 seconds is not long enough for scratch marks disappear, last I checked, they last for 10 seconds(around 7 with lightweight). Oh and Legion when using his power every chance he gets is not slower than old Legion, as I stated(with math). This means overall Legion is faster. As for his power being non lethal, sure, it can't down them itself, but you can take 4 health states faster than most other killers, assuming they're in close enough proximity to each other. That's arguably more beneficial than any single down, assuming survivors heal.
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@Kabu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/687863#Comment_687863
All the killers being compared to Legion (Nurse, Spirit, Billy) have LETHAL powers along with the fatigue/recharge/drawbacks.
We were talking about map traversal, but tell me, how are Spirit and Nurse's powers lethal when they're literally for movement/tracking and have no lethality to them whatsoever? Never understood that argument.
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@Coriander said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/687781#Comment_687781
What, you don't have Where's Dwighty? Waldwight best Dwight.
I prefer Default Dwight.
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@phantasmal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/687863#Comment_687863
Hillbilly can only move in a straight line with his chainsaw
Well, I mean he isn't locked into a forward movement, he is able to steer slightly to the left and right, which can be increased tremendously with add-ons.
Nurse has a fatigue every time she blinks, which is in reality many more fatigues than Legion will ever know.
Only cause Legion can't use his power for mobility? Otherwise they have double the fatigue timer.
with 115% speed plus fatigue speed being as fast as previously
Legion got an extra 1 second of fatigue when they got reworked, that alone counterbalances the +5% base movement speed when it comes to catching up.
Legion has much more control of movement than any of the characters you mentioned
I mean how often does that make a difference when it comes to traversing the map? Maybe on something like Lery's but otherwise you don't have to do extreme parkour to get from point A to point B.
Also, additionally, none of those three killers suffer a power penalty for basic actions such as: getting stunned or for just hitting a survivor with a basic attack. Imagine if like Billy couldn't charge his chainsaw for +10 seconds after M1ing a survivor.
As for his counterplay, would you rather he had no counterplay?
That's not what I was trying to say, even if I worded it awkwardly.
I don't think that Legion is SUPPOSED to chain hit all four every time he uses his power, which is a misconception I think that other people believe he should. I think 2 survivors is good, 4 survivors is supposed to be a lucky/rare case.
I suppose that's true.
Well, I mean he isn't locked into a forward movement, he is able to steer slightly to the left and right, which can be increased tremendously with add-ons.
I know that, but my point was that his movement is locked pretty hard. Legion has no problem moving in any direction he so chooses and cannot bump into anything unless he just walks directly into it.
Only cause Legion can't use his power for mobility? Otherwise they have double the fatigue timer.
Double the fatigue timer? It's only double if she blinks once. If she blinks twice it's 1.5 more seconds, but think about it. How many times does Nurse blink in a chase? Far more than once or twice. How many times does she blink to traverse the map? Far more than twice.
Legion got an extra 1 second of fatigue when they got reworked, that alone counterbalances the +5% base movement speed when it comes to catching up.
After doing some math, it looks like Legion is pretty much the same speed now as they were before, with some times new Legion being faster, depending on when each could use FF. If for example they've been moving the same length of time and they are able to use FF the same amount of times, new Legion is faster. If not however old Legion is. Either way, they are definitely not slower, and it looks like they're pretty much the exact same speed in most occasions. However, new Legion having a higher base movement speed is honestly better in the long run for them than their power being faster imo, but it looks like the devs balanced their speed to be around the same overall if they were using FF every time it was up the second it was up. However I don't see Legion's doing that, so I expect that new Legion is still faster. Either way, it still holds true that new Legion's base movement speed plus old Legion's FF would likely be much too powerful.
I mean how often does that make a difference when it comes to traversing the map? Maybe on something like Lery's but otherwise you don't have to do extreme parkour to get from point A to point B.
I mean, it can be pretty hard to navigate with teleports and Billy's chainsaw because of all the little things sprinkled in-between the map. Sure there aren't as many windows as Lery's, but overall, you can bump into objects quite easily on pretty much any map with all the rubble in-between them as Billy, and Nurse has some objects she just cannot teleport through.
Also, additionally, none of those three killers suffer a power penalty for basic actions such as: getting stunned or for just hitting a survivor with a basic attack. Imagine if like Billy couldn't charge his chainsaw for +10 seconds after M1ing a survivor.
Oh? Nurse doesn't get an even longer stun for swinging? Her stun is essentially a cooldown on her power. I mean Billy doesn't really, but his penalty is more so from hitting objects. Spirit is the only one of the three I can think of not punished for anything really.
That's not what I was trying to say, even if I worded it awkwardly.
Then what were you trying to say? If the splitting up against the Legion is counterplay to his power, then that's his counterplay. Other characters have counterplay as well. Counterplay is not something Legion specific, and you have ways of forcing survivors to need to be closer together, through gen manipulation.
I suppose that's true.
From the way I see it, Legion's power is meant to be an information tool to Legion, and a hindrance to survivors. Legion gets to use his FF to hit a survivor, extend his power, and see other survivors within his TR. This allows him to injure one, and down another, or injure two, and down the third, or even injure 3, and down the fourth. It's a stall tactic, although one that's probably not as good as it should be through no fault of Legion's design, but moreso the fault of people who complained about healing, getting it nerfed, and causing survivors to ignore healing in favor of Adrenaline.
@Talmeer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/687863#Comment_687863
Thats not really how it is. Billy can a tiny bit change his direction shortly before he is fully "charged" (is that the correct word?, I guess you know what I mean), but yes of course, its not the same like with the Legion.
I assume that the most Legion players would happyley change their actual base-movement speed back to the old one, if some frenzy changes would go along with that.
What dw matters... They should just delete it and transform it into a pure dmg abilitie imo (what know I? maybe then every frenzy hit makes 10% - 20% dmg on a survivor or so - directly). The ability is anyways already useless and serves no other purpose anymore as to annoy the Legion player and the survivors.
I know he can change his direction slightly, the point wasn't really about that though. It's just a nitpick with my wording. My point was that they're entirely different and Legion can choose when and where they want to go whereas the others cannot quite do so, or have more difficulties doing so.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/687756#Comment_687756
What I'm saying is that not only did they brighten her clothes, the brightened all of the maps too. So of course you're not losing them now.
I'm saying imagine playing Yamoaka's, on the old lighting, with the old Blendette clothes, on a foggy setting. Because I had to do it. I had to do it for four of them.
That game lasted over an hour. It wasn't fun (next time I just used scratched mirror Myers and 4k'd them).
Also, if you're playing on PS4, you should remember how bad the framerates were before the lighting got changed. There's a reason the framerates are generally much better now.
The thing is, the dark map has nothing to do with the clothes. If the map was darker, the brighter clothes would likely stick out even more tbh. As for what you're talking about. I have had a game last over an hour, as Hag, in the corn fields. There were 2 gens left and 2 people left, I kept hitting them, they'd run off, and I'd lose them. That was before the brightened clothing but either way, I don't see it as a problem. Survivors are practically fluorescent flashing lights now. As for the frame rates, I highly doubt the map being lighter made them better. Whatever update they did probably did, but the lighting itself was not something that was necessary I'm sure, outside of nerfing survivor stealth. They've doubled down on it now. Right now there's only one map that keeps a similar horror styled vibe, and that's because it actually is night outside. Every other map is in broad daylight, which makes no sense to me.
Don't get me wrong, survivors should not be pitch black, but the fact that their clothes are brightened is more than enough to bring back the old lighting.
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@joker7997 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/687828#Comment_687828
Again how would you know they weren't swf? Because they aren't toxic? My swf group isn't toxic. You can tell when swf join, you hear the swoosh sound once, and 2 3 or 4 join together. It is possible I suppose that two randoms join at the exact same millisecond, but not 4. Normally as killer of you don't get 4 at once there is up to 30 seconds where survivors are still joining after the first .
Because SWF are always overly altruistic of each other. I've had many times where 4 joined together and were completely uncoordinated and not that altruistic.
@Fab said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/687842#Comment_687842
1 Key = Ebony Mori and Prayer Beads Spirit. If they want to ruin my fun, I'll ruin their fun.
How do keys ruin your fun? They require the team to complete their entire objective outside of opening the doors... The only time they work is when you're winning and it's only to let one of them get the hatch that they might have gotten anyways unless you slugged them, unless it's a SWF.
@MemberBerry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/688166#Comment_688166
B-but, ebony mori is op and should be removed.... /s
Yeah, keys, which require the entire objective to be completed to be used for their purpose of escape are totally OP. Keys should definitely be nerfed, and moris should be totally be buffed... /s
Anyways, this conversation is about people assuming everything is a SWF just because 4 people loaded in together, which is rarely the case.
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@phantasmal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/687588#Comment_687588
Not a very compelling argument while we have Spirit (7.04m/s while phasing), Hillbilly (9.2m/s while sprinting) and Nurse (13.33m/s while blinking) in the same game as Legion. All of them being able to further increase their speed with add-ons and have way less drawbacks to their power.
FF currently is completely useless for traversing the map if you can't get at least 1 (more realistically 2) extention to it. The break-even point for durtion is 19s, any less than that and you'd have gained more distance by just walking.
You are already giving up pretty much every form of tracking by activating FF (no scratch marks, blood, muffled sounds, slight screen blur), does it really have to be inefficent for getting around as well?
Which leads to the obvious counterplay Legion's power always had (if we ignore the DW exploits): splitting up. Legion's power allows him to quickly injure everyone, if they are grouped up. He can never catch up to anyone with at least a 10m headstart (7.68 back in the old days), essentially nullifying his only power, stalling. Imagine thinking that a power like that needs an easy 1v1 counterplay at pallets. :V
Spirit is exactly why they didn't keep his speed the same. She's a 110% killer. Hillbilly can only move in a straight line with his chainsaw, and Nurse has a fatigue every time she blinks, which is in reality many more fatigues than Legion will ever know. Legion has much more control of movement than any of the characters you mentioned, and with 115% speed plus fatigue speed being as fast as previously, he'd just traverse the map entirely too fast, and he can still cancel his power once catching up to someone. If they did want to give him this option, perhaps they could make it where he couldn't cancel his power, including misses once using it, forcing him to either wait it out, or keep hitting them/find other survivors. This would force him to use his higher mobility to find other survivors instead of hitting them with DW, and then cancelling/continuing to chase one survivor.
As for his counterplay, would you rather he had no counterplay? Every character has some form of counterplay. Splitting up is pretty much Legion's only counterplay to his actual power, which is essentially a mini Plague vomit(he can injure every survivor on the map if they don't split up in a very quick time frame. To be fair, Plague's vomit is better, as they are forced to stay injured unless they cleanse, but the fact remains that if survivors didn't split up to counter Legion's power, then they would simply just keep getting picked off). I don't think that Legion is SUPPOSED to chain hit all four every time he uses his power, which is a misconception I think that other people believe he should. I think 2 survivors is good, 4 survivors is supposed to be a lucky/rare case.
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I've been saying this for a while now as well. All they have to do is make a ranked decay, that way if you're not playing for a while, your rank goes down more slowly rather than immediately going down to a much lower rank than you should be. Much more balanced, much better for the game, much less frustration. The only people who seem to enjoy ranked reset are people who mostly/only play killer. And that's because they have an easier time.
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Hm...who am I gonna play first? David, obviously.
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@joker7997 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/687783#Comment_687783
How would you know? You're probably the 4th person joining these lobbies. As a killer you can tell when swf join.
I've had plenty of times as killer where I have not dodged a lobby where 4 people loaded in at the same time, and guess what? They weren't a 4 man SWF squad trying to bully me. I've also had times where I knew it was a SWF squad, but you know why I knew it was a SWF squad? Because they all had names relating to each other. It had nothing to do with the time they loaded in, it was all based on their names. Hell, most of the time when I'm facing a SWF squad, they load in at different times.
As for me being the last person joining these lobbies, considering it happens almost ALL the time, I don't think that's the case. I could be wrong, but considering it's very rare that I don't load in with the other 3 at the same time, I can't agree with that statement.
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@Gamzello said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/687783#Comment_687783
Totally agree, and solo main too. Killer must’ve thought you guys were one of those troll SWF games lmao. That will no longer be a problem in the future since we will have dedicated servers now.
Yeah, that was my assumption too. I wanted to play with the hunky boys too. I normally am stuck with the damn Claudettes, Megs, Neas, and Kate's ._.
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@Gamzello said:
Honestly it’s not even with David, it always happens when I load in at the same time with other people.
Or when my P3 Dwight shows up in rank 20-19 since I just recently started to play again.
SIGH.
It was more about the fact that three of us were David I think that set the killer into "Nope!" mode, lol. But yeah, dodgers suck. I still don't understand though, so many people say "If everyone loads in together I know it's a SWF" but I load in together with people all the time, generally all four of us at the same time even, and yet I am solo.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/687740#Comment_687740
Except you're playing on a brighter light setting, with less dense fog, and you allegedly lost that Jake on Haddonfield.
Haddonfield is not Yomoaka's.
...Also Jake isn't a Blendette. So uh, y'know.
I'm playing on PS4. My setting isn't any brighter than anyone else's, unless you're talking about the game itself. And again, her CLOTHES are brighter, if the map was darker, it wouldn't change that fact and her clothes would likely stick out more. Also, you don't have to be a Blendette to hide from the killer, or didn't, until they lit up clothes, and now no one can hide from them really, aside from being out of line of sight.
I know Jake isn't a Blendette, as well. I'm saying I've never lost one since they brightened clothes. I see them quite easily in fact when they're sitting there eating trees thinking I won't see them. It actually disappoints me considering people who pretty much only play killer want hiding from them nerfed, while also asking for loops to be nerfed as well. Hiding is no longer really worth doing, and I had more fun with them not finding me than looping them.
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Well have fun. Yellow and below are hell.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/687709#Comment_687709
Try to find 4 Blendettes who do nothing but hide in a dark, foggy map the entire game and come back and tell me what a wonderful fun experience you had.
Can you imagine how fun having to deal with that on Yomoaka's would be? Oh boy.
They've brightened Claudette's clothes to the point where she sticks out like a sore thumb practically anywhere. The only time I've ever had problems actually losing someone now was when I was chasing a Jake and he had on the light brown jacket. Turned out he was self caring near a fence that was practically the exact same shade as his jacket. That was on Haddonfield, and while I lost him, it was only for a second. I saw him shortly after passing by him.
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You're falling on deaf ears, mainly because the devs from what it seems like to me, barely even bug test their changes when they ship them, so from my experience, they only care the bare minimum they have to. Unless a huge fuss is raised to the point where if they don't change it they'll lose players, I doubt they'll fix hitboxes in the way you're suggesting.
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Honestly this is what it should be like. To hell with balance, it's not like they really care about balance, considering they have items that flip the game on it's head and make things extremely difficult for the other side to the point where it's almost a guaranteed win for the side that brings them and is only "balanced" if all 5 bring their biggest guns.
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I actively try to raise my survivor rank right now because being in yellow/brown ranks is torture and being in green ranks is half torture and half decent games. Any game as a survivor in brown or yellow ranks is: killer camps, survivors swarm the hook like flies, killer gets 4k, OR, killer brings ebony, everybody dies. Usually one, then the other, then maybe every 5 games I get a good one. Once I get to green ranks, it's usually every 1st game I get a decent game(or potentially a camper, but usually my third is a decent), every 2nd game is a camper, and every 3rd is an ebony. I don't have any problems really in purple ranks as survivor, but I usually don't stay there long as I don't only play DBD, meaning rank reset hits and I go back to rank 13(Thanks BHVR for adding that instead of rank decay where I may only lose a rank or two for being away from the game for so long).
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The devs themselves said that Legion with his current base speed + his old FF speed would be insanely fast, fast enough to basically traverse a big chunk of the map in a very small time frame. They had to nerf FF's move speed to compensate. If you want his old base speed back with his old FF speed, they might consider doing that. But realistically you're moving faster with new Legion than you were with old.
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@Attackfrog said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/687519#Comment_687519
I have. And you can, especially if you max out your hits and chase because survivors rush the hook...especially if you down another one. Again, the rank system is borked.
then again, in high ranks.most survivors don't rush the hook, negating any success from camping.
but those survivors play well and.If you camp, you don't get your points because they gen rush and escape, but usually try to lo op or bait the killer from hook.
How are you to maximize your hits if no one plays with that ######### at higher ranks? That's why I'm saying you don't win as a camper. The only way you win is by survivors letting you. You can't max your chase unless the survivor just runs you for that long, and you can't max your hits because you're only gonna get 2 hits. Camping is a bad "strategy" and a "tactic" only enjoyed by people who enjoy being ######### to other people. They are the same people who got other games to actually create barriers preventing this tactic, because they abused it to the point that everyone got sick of it. I guarantee you when Stranger Things hits, all these new players that come to play, if they play survivor, will either leave very quickly, or move to killer, making killer queues longer.
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@Attackfrog ONE hook is not a win for the killer, and I can "win" even with being hook camped, by pipping up. If you're ranking up for 1k, then you're likely not a high rank killer. I can't rank up as killer by getting one hook even at rank 16(haven't played killer much for 2 rank resets, due to trying to get out of bad killer/survivor ranks).
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@Attackfrog said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/687474#Comment_687474
none of those games are THIS game. It IS subjective because:
should killers allow free unhooks? What constitutes camping? How is it counterproductive when 75% of survivors have free reign of the map? How is it uncounterable when many survivors are able to avoid the hook completely?
Being camped might be frustrating for the camped person but it allows the other 4/5 to run the map and play as desired.
as for getting better: this game has a solid learning curve. Everyone sucks when they start. If you find yourself getting camped, it means you are getting caught. I promise that the more some one plays, the better they get. Pretty soon it will be your te am mate getting caught and camped and YOU will have free reign of the map.but
in the end, this is a pvp game. Some tapestries frustrate he oppenent but it isn't a player's job to make.the opponent happy. The objective is to win.
You don't win by killing one survivor. You also don't get it. I'm not always the one found first, and my teammates are generally idiots who rush to save, sometimes he has insidious, etc. Just because I'm not the one caught doesn't make it any more fun. The killer won't rank up, the survivors won't rank up. It's only purpose is to frustrate everyone involved in the game outside of the killer. The killer only wins if the survivors are stupid(which in lower ranks, they are, and even in higher ones they sometimes are). It is griefing 100%. Just happens to be allowed by the devs. There is no counterplay available for the person being camped, other than "hope someone has BT, and the killer doesn't have an instadown". That's not counterplay, as the person it's happening to cannot do anything about it. The problem is the devs have an issue with introducing perks to try to band-aid fix the problem instead of tackling it head on. If someone is near the exit gate that's opened and hooked, it's a necessary evil, but otherwise you're just being a dick and trying to ruin everyone's game.
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@Attackfrog said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/687424#Comment_687424
Lol the simple fact that I enjoy camping as a killer and you don't further supports the subjectivity of the term "camping".
I also don't like gen rushing, but it doesn't break ToS nor is it considered "cheating" or "unfair" by the creators and moderators of this game.
Like it or not, "camping" is a subjective term. You call it "camping". I call it "guarding the hook".
Also: the fact that you call someone an "#########" for playing the game a certain way even FURTHER supports that these are subjective terms. Camping, gen rushing and tunneling are well within the boundaries of fair play. You sound frustrated with campers. Which I will agree can be frustrating, but is very much allowed (and VERY much counterable in game).
In fairness, I am frustrated with SWF using voicecoms, which is not a parameter in which the game was designed, yet, as frustrating as it is, I deal with it. I think it needs balance but I can't complain about it. If I were a survivor, I would NEVER solo surv. It's pointless, especially at high ranks.
Just group up or get better at avoiding the hook. This game has a learning curve.
Camping is what ANYONE normally calls it because that's what it is. The only difference is on DBD it's not punishable, and has no way to prevent it from happening. Every other PVP game I can think of that exists has some form to prevent it. League of Legends? The fountain, any shooter game? You spawn in different locations, etc etc. It's not subjective when there are so many examples of games that have changed their rules to prevent it from happening over the years to where now it's a given that there's some mechanic to prevent it. You can call it "guarding the hook", but what you're saying is that you enjoy preventing another person from playing the game once you hook them one time, ruining their experience and pushing them away from the game. That is why I call people who do it a pos. It's also not counterable in the game as you say. The best chance you have is BT, but even that can be prevented with the right killers, and if you're the one on the hook, it requires a survivor running that perk to prevent something that anyone can do without a perk. It being allowed has no bearing on the fact that it's griefing, plain and simple. You're not even really playing the game, you're just sitting there while a person can't do anything. Also, while again, I'm not rank 1, even a rank 1 survivor will go down and dies to 3 hooks. If they're camped then they only get 1 unless their killer is a potato or they have borrowed time and it's an M1 killer without instadowns. But wouldn't you say it's kind of hard to get better if the killer won't chase you and they're sitting there staring at their one trophy?
As for the learning curve comment, yeah, it does, if you're actually playing the game and not sitting at your keyboard just looking at the screen.
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@thedevalex said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/687307#Comment_687307
If they add undetectable to stealth killers, I sincerely doubt the devs will make it so the killers can see the survivors but the survivors can't see the killers. I'm sure they'll just make it so the perk doesn't activate.
You give the devs a LOT of credit...
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@Attackfrog said:
"Gen Rushing", "Camping", "Tunneling" are all non-issues.
These are negative terms the community created for playstyles that are frustrating for the opposing faction.
The fact that there is so much debate on these subjects only supports their subjectivity.
Gen rushing is fine.
So is camping.
If you don't like it, get better at tracking or surviving. (or balance the game for swf, developers!). Either way, if you get a little bit butthurt in game, PLEASE keep coming to the forums to post your frustration; it's a VERY fun read!!!!
Camping is not just a negative term the community created for a playstyle that is frustrating for the opposing faction. Camping is a negative/unfair strategy that has existed across almost every PVP game in existence that no one enjoys. That's why most good games generally create some form of barrier to prevent it. This is the only one I've ever played that encouraged it. There is no counter for the person being camped, and no one can prevent getting hooked 100% of the time as a survivor. The fact that there is debate is only because a bunch of people who enjoy being ######### to that one person are being encouraged by a game to do what they would do on any other game. I generally pip up as survivor, but I can't do all the gens myself. I'm obviously not rank 1 but these types of playstyles are discouraged in EVERY other game where it would normally be able to be done for a very important reason. As killer, I don't play as much right now because I'm trying to get away from these 12 year old pos on survivor so I don't have to play with them as much. Rank reset is the only reason it's taking so much longer.
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@Mister_xD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/687323#Comment_687323
that is not necessarily corrrect.
if a killer only focusses on completing their objective, they will secure the kill when they can, so they dont lose their progress again.
a killer that desperately wants their objective to get done, will not leave it to chance weather he gets a survivor or not. they will only let the hooked survivor go in exchange for a new hook - if possible they want both survivors.
the very second they leave the hook, they would allow the team to rescue the survivor and escape with him, leaving them with empty hands, which is exactly what those players wish to prevent.
when they secure a kill, they got 25% of their objective done. when they dont tunnel / camp, they might end up with everyone leaving, therefore them having hooked them all once or twice, yet still having 0% of their objective completed.
like i said, those would be the extreme cases, but they are still very much a thing.
just like survivors will ignore healing / saving just to get their gens done in less than 3 minutes. that too is an extreme case.
Survivors spread out and do gens equally in most cases(unless Prove Thyself). This results in them doing all of their objectives and getting out. A killer doing all of his objectives would only be the same as 4 survivors doing all of theirs. Survivors are playing optimally. A camping killer isn't.