Adjatha
Adjatha
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Every killer perk that activates, has no effect, and deactivates has the same cooldown or activation requirements as it did initially. Why should survivor perks be able to get refunded until you get a use out of it?
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@drsoontm said:
Here is something I don't fully understand.
Incentive for survivor, is straightforward. After all, it's just a superficial change.
Incentive for killer though ... I'm not as skilled with all the killers I play. So it's the same if I play Trapper, Blight or Mastermind?
Is the survivor population skill that neatly distributed?
It's not to promote variety or challenge or skill.
It is literally just there to get butts in seats.
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Except the title doesn't make sense any more because there are multiple maps that take place DURING daylight.
Not just as bright as daylight thanks to artificial lighting.
Not just dawn or dusk where you can see everything but at least there are shadows.
Straight-up, middle-of-the-day, bright enough to make Wesker's sunglasses more than a meme, DAYLIGHT.
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@Zeon_99 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3159379#Comment_3159379
Yeah idk what goes on over there. Took them this long to go "Hey guys, I think decreasing the bloobweb node cost will reduce the grind"
Or the fact that they went through the OLD maps and pulled a bunch of pallets out, only to do graphical reworks and PUT THEM ALL BACK IN
It's a real frick and frack show over there.
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Fun to see that the individual responsible for the nightmare that is the Reworked version of The Game is still in charge of level design.
"How many pallets does this map need?"
"YES"
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I'm betting: still no fix for Sadako
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The chains don't start to come for you until the Chain Hunt has begun.
You have 90 seconds to get to and complete the box.
Just don't wait until the 90 seconds has expired.
If you get the box at 80 seconds, you complete it without a single chain to interrupt you.
It could not be simpler.
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Killers got NINE of their best, meta perks nerfed to uselessness.
Survivors got FOUR.
Dead Hard got reworked to be nearly identical to what it was (and is, in fact, stronger in some situations). This was the single most-used perk before (75% of the user base used it)
Borrowed Time got BETTER. It was the 2nd most used (50%).
B A L A N C E
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The early game favors the killer because there is a minimum threshold survivors need to reach to be competent and the game doesn't have a bot system to actually teach you what you need to know (the updated tutorial is still woefully lacking in basic, core concepts).
Once survivors understand the rules of the game, it is wildly in favor of survivors. 4 escapes are incredibly common, killer perks get overwritten by survivor perks across the board, and more than half of the killer options struggle to get even a single kill. And that just gets worse and worse the higher up in the skill ladder you go, until there's really only Nurse and Blight who can compete at the highest level.
The issue is that a killer's task revolves 100% around survivors, whose skill increases over time. So the whole game gets harder as you play more.
Survivors, on the other hand, have basic tasks which are the exact same no matter what level you're playing at. Skill checks never get harder, gens never get harder, locating spawns, navigating stages, memorizing pallets/loops... on and on. Once you know it, it doesn't get any harder. The ONLY part of the game that gets more difficult for survivors is the chase, which only occupies a single survivor at a time. The rest of the team breezes through elements that used to be hard but have become trivial.
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They complained loud enough that they got a free perk. Then complained loud enough that it wasn't enough and it got doubled.
Why would they EVER stop complaining when it works every time?
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Nine of the best killer perks were nerfed to uselessness.
Four of the best survivor perks were nerfed to uselessness.
The single most-used survivor perk was reworked to be slightly worse. It is still very good.
The second most-used survivor perk was buffed through the roof.
You don't have to ask "why was X killer perk nerfed."
The answer is always the same: for every 1 killer complaint, there are 4 survivor complaints. Volume always wins.
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Why? Because it's a horror game and once survivors are past the initial learning stage, there's no horror to be found.
Having one single part of a game that is deadly is a thematic feature, not a failure of the game design.
Killers don't deserve 4K every game. But survivors don't deserve 4E every game either. In fact, BOTH should be incredibly rare. But unlike the hatch, which can give that last survivor a pretty good shot at escaping an otherwise certain death, killers do not have anything that helps prevent an otherwise certain full team escape.
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@ByeByeQ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3147969#Comment_3147969
Old Undying is a really bad example. It gave far too much value. Especially when paired with Old Ruin.
The fact that Undying is still a very good perk now is a testament to how strong it was back then.
Could you imagine how Old Undying would pair with Pentimento now, it would be truly brutal.
It's far too far past the point to rehash that old argument, but I will say this much:
Ruin + Old Undying meant that if a killer chased you off a generator, it would begin to regress at a 1:2 ratio (160 seconds to remove 80 seconds of work). A team of 4 survivors would have to work on other gens, or would have to go totem hunting. This meant a minimum of 2 totems but could mean all the way up to a maximum of 5 totems. To help with this, survivors had multiple perks, items, and addons that would locate/track/accelerate the process.
Since then, Undying has been moved to a maximum of 2 totems that need to be cleansed and Ruin has been reduced to 1/2 its previous speed (6 minutes to reduce a 99% gen back to 0).
On the other hand, Boon totems can be blessed infinitely and killers have 0 perks/addons to help locate them. To help mitigate this, they introduced a new perk to break boons.
So, if a killer burns one of their perks just to get the baseline power survivors have vs. hexes, they STILL have to find and break all five totems to stop boons from functioning. That's a team of 1 to find all 5 - the worst possible bad luck streak a survivor team could've encountered before.
The same goal that survivors claimed was impossible to expect of their team of 4 - despite all the tools at their disposal to accomplish it - is now the ONLY path killers have, AND it takes the use of a perk to even have a chance.
This is what I mean when I say 'survivors will never accept anything that makes the game more complicated on their end.' Being expected to do totems was SUCH a burden that everything on the killer side got hacked into pointlessness, despite every possible advantage being heaped on them. But the EXACT SAME PROBLEM coming up for killers? A perk that gives them the exact situation survivors claimed was impossible despite having four times the manpower.
Because it's not enough to play hide & go seek, ring around the rosey, break doors, smash pallets, kick generators, patrol gens, try to interrupt healing, evade stuns, play around a host of 3rd Chance Perks, spread out damage, and try to remember who's already been hooked how many times. Now killers also get to play a totem hunting game that survivors couldn't (or, actually, just wouldn't) do themselves.
Do survivors need more tasks? Yes.
Will they get more tasks? No.
Toggle your M1 on the gen and get your escape points. Because that's all this game will ever be.
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@ThePrizz said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3147969#Comment_3147969
I totally get your point but a lot of my suggestions were for extra stuff that don't really hinder the survivors, rather gives them advantages if they accomplish them, something that gives them more to work with.
When it comes to killers, I understand that some might be frustrating, but at the same time it's better to have a bunch of them that force players to switch their playstyle a little bit rather than have all killers do the same thing making the game a boring, predictable experience.
The game was designed at first to give out a thrilling experience, if you look at the oldest killers, they all have mechanics that make survivors be more alert, cause they could step on a trap, be surprised by a hatchet in the head or be surprised by a killer sneaking up on them by stealth or teleportation. Even Hillbilly gives a sense of unrest since he can be on the other side of the map and in the next couple of seconds get close to you.
But then they kind of stopped giving a damn, they kind of focused on the gameplay instead of the experience. Legion / Plague / Wesker / Trickster / Deathslinger lack pretty much any horror qualities, not even a scary model. And others, even though they have creepy models, they have boring kits that give out 0 sense of excitement when they chase you, like Clown / Artist / Pyramid Head/ Nemesis.
I've said it and I'll say it again, Dredge is one of the best designed killers in the whole game, he shows everyone how a killer should be. He can keep survivors on their toes since he might pop out of any locker at anytime, he has a creepy model, very good sound cues, and is able to switch up the ambiance of the map with his nightfall, That's just perfect, that's what every killer should be able to do in it's own unique way.
I will agree that Dredge is pretty close. The Nightfall is a great concept and very thematic. The one change I would make would be to limit how many locks the survivors have at their disposal. If survivors had to gather locks from across the map, it would make the whole 'lock the locker' mechanic more dynamic than just "lock everything you come across because there's basically no downside and it's effectively instant."
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Killers: buffed 10% for 0.3 seconds
Survivors: buffed 100% for +5 seconds (and +3% haste)
Circle of Healing: untouched
Yup. That's how balance works.
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Bad news:
The players currently playing DbD as survivors will never accept any greater complexity.
Look at old Undying: take out 2-5 totems? An impossible task (apparently), so Undying nerfed to a flat 2.
Look at Pinhead: One survivor has to go to the highlighted box once every 90 seconds. An impossible task (if the bevvy of complaints is to be believed).
I mean heck: people complain about Pig's bear traps, and she's in the bottom five of worst killers in the game.
They'll have to make a new game (or DbD 2) with the more complex gameplay from the start because there is a zero percent chance current survivors will tolerate anything that makes the "click M1 on gen, repeat, leave" snoozefest more difficult or dynamic.
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So many problems with the core gameplay loop are so deeply ingrained in the playerbase that they will never be able to fix them without coming out with a sequel.
In DbD 2, they can say "Survivors have three different objectives, and you're expected to do this, that, and the other."
Any time they try to add even the most simple secondary objective in DbD 1, the survivors lose their minds and the secondary ends up getting nerfed so survivors can just ignore it instead of actually doing anything other than click M1 once per gen.
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There's effectively no real difference. And all five are extremely miserable, despite (or perhaps due to) being reworked.
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Since we're making unreasonable wishlists, how about:
- Let killers rule out survivor groups with multiple of the same character
- Prevent survivors from swapping out which character they're playing as once they're in the lobby
- Let killers rule out survivors who are equipped with boons
- Let killers rule out survivors using "chase me" taunting cosmetics
- Let killers rule out survivors with TTV in their name
Coming up with a whole bunch of random nonsense is fun.
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Not soon enough.
Last time they said anything, "end of the year" was the rough approximation.
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Sure are a lot of brand new, less-than-a-week-old forum accounts that seem to be made solely for the purpose of complaining about specific killers, usually with incorrect assertions (Nemesis can either injury OR smash a pallet, one whip strike will never do both) or boilerplate complaints (nurse too strong!!!).
Almost as if there's a sudden surge of forum members making fake accounts to complain in the hope that the boosted volume will be seen as an actual problem and not the incredibly transparent bid to get specific killers massively nerfed, like they did to Freddy, Deathslinger, or Wraith.
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The easy fix: buff killers vs SWF to an ascending degree for how many teamed players there are.
The hard fix: change every map to correct all the absurdity of 30+ pallets, 5+ godpallets, and endlessly safe, closely clustered loops.
The actual fix: do nothing and eventually only the good players will remain so the devs won't have to do any actual balance fixes..
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When they nerfed Self-Care, but DIDN'T remove the FAR SUPERIOR self-care power from Circle of Healing, that should've been all the evidence anybody needs to prove that the game is Pay to Win.
Gotta sell those Mikaelas! Even if Circle of Healing killed off the viability of half of their killer cast.
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Pinhead: a killer with a secondary objective so simple that all it asks is for one single survivor to go to the large, highlighted box icon once every 90 seconds.
"He ShOuLd Be NeRfeD fOr SoLo QuEuE"
If you are having trouble against him, YOU go get the box.
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The people who play 300+ games a week are, no doubt, annoyed by people not wanting to play against them, so they will complain about evidence of the Matchmaking failure leading to lobby dodging.
I give it a month.
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Gaining in-game benefits by using 3rd party software that other players do not benefit from and the other side has no counter against:
Bannable offense.
... unless it's voice chat on Discord. Then it's apparently fine.
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At their worst, on giant maps like Red Forest, boons cover around 20% of the map.
On tiny maps, and especially two-story maps like The Game or Midwich, boons can cover over 80% of the map.
They are not balanced in any way and they will almost certainly never actually do anything to fix it.
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Undying made it so a team of Four survivors would have to find and squash between 2 to 5 totems to stop a hex from working.
This was seen as too strong so they changed Undying to be a flat 2 totems.
Boons come out with infinite re-use.
This is seen as too strong so they add a perk killers have to use to stop them. Additionally, this perk allows the killer to stop boons, but only after squashing all five totems.
Additionally, survivors have perks, items, and addons that show them were every totem is to help them hunt. Killers LOST the perk they had that pointed out the totems for them, making finding boons a tremendously difficult proposition for a single player to undertake while ALSO doing everything else a killer has to do in the extremely limited timeframe they're given.
To, so summarize:
- Breaking 2-5 totems for a team of four? Too strong. Killer perk nerfed.
- Breaking a MINIMUM of five totems for a single killer? Too strong of an effect to be baseline, so they made it into a perk the killer must use just to have any chance of countering a single boon.
- Killers still have nothing to make finding boons easier.
Yup. That's the modern design aesthetic.
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They said they'll look at her during the Mid-Chapter Patch.
They just didn't say WHICH mid-chapter patch.
If you already bought her, I feel sorry for you.
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3 minute queue: This is nothing. Stop complaining about a perfectly ordinary queue time. It would be a Bad Thing if queues were 15 minutes. 3 is a joke.
70% win rate: Yeah, sure. I haven't gotten a single 4k game and my 0k games outnumber my 1, 2, and 3 put together. Killer is not "Easy Mode," you're just playing against baby survivors.
The games are no challenge: Try using Trapper or Pig or Deathslinger or Freddy and tell me there's No Challenge.
Just another survivor main who made a new account to try to pretend that the recent patch is some kind of Apocalyptic Event and therefore Survivors should get all four meta perks back to full power (while killers keep their NINE nerfed perks intact and lose all their 0.3 speed increases on top of it)
It's transparent, and it's pathetic.
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@NemmyMan3000 said:
Man it is depressing trying to use your power at loops and since Pyramid is slow winding it up its almost never connects.
Dont even get me started on the add ons, why does Obsidian Goblet exist? It honestly has no value.
Tbh his nerf was still unnecessary to this day and he needs to be tuned up to actually be useful sometimes.
I've got bad news for you:
Pyramid Head is the single most over-hyped killer in the game.
People will tell you he is S-tier, or at the very least, top of A-tier. And why?
C A G E S
People like to pretend that PH can just put people into cages for free, every time. They like to forget (or are simply unaware) that the survivors have 100% control over not getting tormented. He literally cannot send a survivor into a cage unless they let him do it to them. Torment Trails take a very long time to set up, have extremely limited placement requirements, drain his shockwave, make a TON of noise, slow him way down, have a super limited number that can be placed, AND vanish on their own in an embarrassingly small amount of time.
And on top of all of that, survivors can STILL ignore them by just crouch-walking for 0.5 seconds.
You are absolutely right, OP. But the overwhelming majority of this forum will shout you down.
PH is not S-tier. He is not A-tier. He's BARELY B-tier. And anybody who does great with him could be doing just as well if not better with a majority of the other killers in the game (obvious losers like Sadako excepted).
And yeah. Don't even get ME started on his Addons. The worst selection in the entire game. He's basically an addon-less killer. Yet another reason why he is not now and will never be anything but a wildly over-hyped B-tier.
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@TotemSeeker91 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3115154#Comment_3115154
Since WHEN does something like that happen?
That's kind of my point.
These things tend to be very one-sided, and people tend to be far less altruistic when they've got a team on their side.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3121435#Comment_3121435
Dodging lobbies makes the problem worse, doesn't it? Dodging a lobby means the system has to start heavily prioritising speed, which means that the resulting match has a higher chance of being a mismatch.
All because some mostly unrelated numbers might indicate that your lobby is a mismatch, and only for the extremely brief window of time where that's even a slight possibility. The longer we live with this system the less accurate the prestige numbers are as an indicator of skill.
Your previous post said "seeing MMR numbers" not this "Prestige Numbers" you're now talking about.
Dodging lobbies off of Prestige is an inaccurate assessment. MMR is "more" accurate. And if we COULD see MMR instead of merely Prestige, then dodging based on prestige wouldn't be a factor, solving the OP's complaint.
But since we CAN'T see MMR, people will keep dodging based on Prestige, even though it gets less accurate as time goes on (though the 21 to 1 example the OP uses in a 3 week period IS a pretty absurd differential, as I outlined in my rather expansive initial numbers post)
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My kill rate is 1.5
It's significantly worse than it was 12 months ago.
Granted, I took a 9 month break, so I'm pretty rusty. And they haven't bothered to put in the "lower your MMR after long inactivity" feature yet.
But the point remains: Survivors who're stomping killers in-game don't bother to post on this forum to complain (or make new accounts to artificially increase the number of 'voices' echoing their complaints). They just enjoy their victories and go on with their lives.
And based on the groups I play against, there sure are a lot of 'em!
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3121366#Comment_3121366
So you agree that it wouldn't solve the problem at all, it'd merely give people more fuel for the fire of being angry about it?
I don't think seeing MMR is a good solution to the MMR system being flawed, and since there's literally no other reason to do it, they really shouldn't bother. They should just focus on fixing the system.
The 'fix' is "dodging lobbies until the numbers line up closer."
Players taking informed initiative to fix the system that the Devs can't be bothered to get right.
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No. They'll nerf any good killer to be mediocre before it gets out of PTR (while also failing to buff any awful killer to even mediocre levels until some fictitious, future "Mid-Chapter" that never actually comes)
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3121333#Comment_3121333
I'd agree that the matchmaking is flawed- not that it "doesn't work", but that it definitely has clear flaws that they're still working on addressing.
Here's my question: Is that then acceptable and okay if you could see your MMR? Would they stop working on improving the system?
If you could see everyone's MMR before the match, guys with a 300 would definitely dodge guys with 2000. And they'd be 100% right to do so. Some people might use the numbers to brag or denigrate, but THAT kind of person most certainly is already doing so right now, without the numbers. And if your team has numbers that are all over the map, clearly SOMETHING has gone wrong and the match needs a kick in the pants to equal things out better. SOME people might dodge if the other side had a 5 pt advantage, but who cares about that kind of player?
If you could see everyone's MMR after the match, having a 0 gen or 0 hook game would feel less awful when you see that the other side is playing on a 1000 pt higher level. "Oh, well I had no chance so that's why that happened," you would say. SOME people would see a 5 pt advantage and say "well no wonder I lost, they were 5pts higher! I never stood a chance!" And while they'd be wrong, it wouldn't have affected anything and the world would keep spinning.
If you could see only your own MMR, you could see where you're at between the highest and lowest levels. It wouldn't necessarily make the game any better or worse, but it would give you a degree of transparency as to where you're at and how you've been progressing. Wins tweak you up a bit and losses tweak you down and you get a feel for where your skill is at so you can more accurately gage how good you are at the game and what to expect at that level of proficiency.
In every case, having the information is better than not having it. And if people could report wild inconsistencies with factual data to back it up, that would put MORE pressure on the Dev team to get their MMR system working right, not less.
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@ImNotBobDylan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3121288#Comment_3121288
Sure, meanwhile most streamers are streaming 10+ win streaks with killer, any explanation for that? Angrypug has been playing survivor for 2 hours and not won a SINGLE game, getting people who DC every 2 games with 1500 people watching (and he DC'd himself after being slugged). PROBZZ has 3000+ hours and an incredible looper, far from a "carried" guy, currently sits at 3 wins / 14 games.
Professional Killer players (that is to say, their full-time job is to play DbD killers) have always had a much, much higher than normal win rate. Look at any of Oh Tofu's videos from the last few years. He has actually been losing MORE now, than he had been historically.
Like I said: come back when you have enough games to actually make a point.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3121282#Comment_3121282
I find it interesting that when you talk about the casual/competitive split, you present casual as though it is the reaction to the competitive mode- there to play second fiddle to the default mode, competitive.
In my experience, it's the exact opposite way around. Casual is what games start with, casual is the default mode, and you only even get access to the competitive mode (when there is one) after you've sunk a bunch of time into the casual mode. If a game only has one mode, that mode is by default the casual mode, and if another mode were added that would be the competitive mode.
Which is pretty clearly the case in DBD! Our default mode doesn't have any of the restrictions that one would expect of a ranked mode, it doesn't have the ranks that would accompany a ranked mode (the emblem system, as it is not tied to your MMR, is a distinct beast- though I'll grant that it would be what gets re-tooled to be the ranks if we ever got a competitive mode, god forbid), and most importantly, it is the only mode that we have. Ergo, there's absolutely no reason to show a player's MMR, because that's the norm.
If there's no inherent suspicion that the matchmaker doesn't work, there's no reason to need to gauge your opponent's skill, so that's ultimately kind of a moot point. Though, if a bunch of people are lobby-dodging because of prestige levels, I could see an argument for removing it from the lobby- I'm just not sure if that is happening, people who lobby-dodge do so for a huge variety of reasons.
This argument carried more weight in the old system, where players of virtually any skill level got thrown together just to fill the game.
Now, we have an MMR that starts off tight and widens to accommodate less accurate matchmaking in favor of shorter queue times.
The Matchmaking test that the majority of players felt was 'fair' was the one that started narrow and remained narrow. But that also had the longest queue times, so they threw it out for the one we use now.
I'd say the suspicion that matchmaking doesn't work is very much a real thing.
I'd go so far as to say that matchmaking getting wider so quickly is likely the root cause of a MAJORITY of complaints on this forum.
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26 games divided among four streamers, all of whom are presumably at the highest echelons of MMR is not a useful sample size.
Take a hint from the people on this forum who post the results of their last 100 games and get a volume of entries that actually reflect moving up or down in MMR to balance out the artificially high placements many people were at thanks to Dead Hard and the like.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3121203#Comment_3121203
Two notes-
You say that "rank 21 and rank 1 is an objective mismatch", but wouldn't you agree that's missing the possibility that someone may have a comparable prestige level on other characters and they're just happening to play a different one for some reason this match? That's why this prestige number being shown is 100% untrustworthy as an indication of skill- it literally, simply is not an indication of skill, it's an indication of how much BP has been spent on this one character. You can't go off this "less accurate indicator" because it's not just less accurate, it isn't accurate at all.
Second, when you say "unlike every other MMR-based competitive game", what do you mean by that? Most games that have a competitive mode don't show your MMR for their casual/quick-play queue, so DBD is pretty solidly in line with the norm there.
To your first point: If somebody has put 21 ranks worth of BP into Hag, then presumably they see Hag as their primary killer, yes? So if they want to try out Hillbilly, who is rank 1, they would have a pretty good understanding of the basics of the game, but not real the kind of single-minded practice with Hillbilly that they have with Hag. I think anybody who has played killer more than a couple times will agree that killers work very differently from one another. Your Hag skills do not translate to Hillbilly skills. Map knowledge, predictions, and (potentially) looping might have some degree of cross-over, but every killer is expected to use their power to accomplish the game's goal and if you haven't sunk 100 hours into learning them, you're going to struggle against survivors who've sunk 100 hours into learning THEIR skill set.
It's certainly possible that they got all the perks/addons they wanted for Hillbilly and play him obsessively but spend all their points on other killers instead, but that's very much a though experiment. People do not actually do that.
To your second point: DbD does not have a Casual / Competitive dichotomy. There is only one mode. And that mode IS Competitive. There is no casual. All ranks and rewards come from the same pool. Thus: showing your mmr ranking ought to be the standard. Of course I can't speak to ALL Ranked games, as things vary from one to the next, but it's safe to say that the INTENT of a casual mode is to take off some of the pressure, allow for quicker games, and allow low-skill players a chance to play on a level that does not exclude them from the game as a whole.
DbD doesn't have that. So people use elements that imprecisely correlate to skill (ranking, costumes, meta builds, etc) to get SOME idea of how poorly matched the game was. We don't have the actual numbers, so we make assumptions that may be wildly off-base (that team of all four Claudettes who all have the exact same pay-store outfit on MAY have been four solo Q players who just coincidentally all bought the same outfit. Or maybe they were a SWF. We don't know, so we assume the worst!)
Transparency should be the goal, but because it is not, players use what they have. And in the case of the OP's complaint: that means leaving the lobby against an opponent who's likely played more in the last 3 weeks than they've played the game in their life.
This is a bit of an aside, but I thought people were saying survivors were quitting by the truckload because killer was so easy after the patch? If that's the case, why would you care about killer's dodging your lobby? Surely you got an instant survivor queue and you'll get another killer in a couple of seconds?
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The highest prestige level any one could've been at when this went through three weeks ago was 9.
It takes roughly 1.5 million BP to gain a level.
Ergo, anyone whose prestige level is higher than 9 has put in at least 1.5M x (Level - 9) bloodpoints.
The highest BP you can get in a match now is 40,000 (before offerings that increase it), but many, many people on this forum have complained about 0 gens complete and being camped/tunneled at 5 gens, so let's charitably reduce that 40k to an average of 25k per match.
If you're, oh let's say... rank 21, that means that you spent 18 million bp on your main character, which roughly equates to 720 games. Over a 3-week period, that would mean 34 games per day. Which seems... high. Even if you're getting max points every match, that's still 450 matches, or 21 games per day.
SO! Let's look back at offerings. If you're rank 21, that means you must REALLY like this game. So that means you play in a SWF group. We're not too far away from an anniversary event, so let's say that your group is burning 2 anniversary cakes/flan each match. So that's going to bring your typical pts per game to 75000, which means 240 games, or 11 games per day. Which is still QUITE a lot, but not completely unbelievable.
But, of course, this is forgetting about the BP you get from daily rituals (30k per day or basically 1 'free' match), as well as Tome challenges (15k - 60k depending on the challenge, which we'll round off to 30k on average). Let's say you're knocking out an entire tome page, so that'd be around 600k, plus the 600k form daily rituals, so that's 1.2M bp, which takes your 18M down to a mere 16.8M.
That'd take you down to 224 games in 3 weeks, or around 10 games per day.
So what's the point of all those numbers? Even under the most favorable circumstances, somebody who plays this game 10 times every day for three weeks is going to be a whole lot better at it than somebody who hasn't played that much recently, or touched a given killer, or played a particular side.
Hours played DOES NOT EQUAL skill. It DOES have a pretty strong correlation, however. And say what you like, rank 21 vs rank 1 is an objective mis-match.
And since we know that the MMR thresholds start narrow and expand broader over a surprisingly small period of time, if a killer who doesn't put in 10 games a day, every day, sees somebody at rank 21, it's VERY MUCH in their best interest to dodge that game.
Of course, if they just SHOWED the MMR ranking, you could see at a glance how GOOD a given player/team is, rather than having to go off of the (presumably) less accurate indicator.
But, unlike every other MMR-based competitive game, DbD doesn't want to show which players are Triple Platinum Ultra and which ones are Bronze IV.
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Everything is balanced around the lowest level of play and the question of balance at any higher levels is put on the shoulders of the players instead of evolving gameplay. There is no dynamic scaling to the game's difficulty, despite having an MMR value assigned for all players before the game begins.
Survivors who play correctly will always win.
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If they'd rather put out Hillbilly addons that mitigate the terrible revving change rather than fix the bad rework, they're probably never going to fix Freddy's bad re-balancing either. At best, maybe an addon that mitigates some of the wildly overboard nerfs he got.
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Memes aren't just a new name for funny internet pictures.
Memes are concepts that spread through a community through repeated transmission and often come with larger, implied meanings beyond the contents of their initial package. The DbD community has plenty of them.
"Toxic" to stand in for "they're doing something I don't like."
"No Counterplay" to stand in for "make this thing way weaker so I don't have to worry about it or change anything about what I'm currently doing."
"Oppressive" to stand in for "I've tried doing nothing and I'm all out of ideas, so nerf this thing"
and, of course, "Killswitch" to mean "I want to see something different because I was beaten recently and I want the person who beat me to be blocked from playing the game."
The insidious part of these (and memes in general), is that because they spread through transmission, the more threads (and the more "new" posters with 1-10 forum posts each) parrot the exact same sentiment, the more that bad faith argument becomes ingrained in people who had no opinion before but now feel strongly about it just to align themselves with what LOOKS like a popular community sentiment.
It can be infectious. And that's what these people are hoping to accomplish. BHVR has already shown numerous instances of bowing to public outcry and wildly over reacting to anything needing a tweak, leading to that game aspect to be effectively killed off (just look at Ruin, Overcharge, or Thanataphobia for recent examples; or Hillbilly, Freddy, or Deathslinger for historical examples).
That's why people are throwing 'killswitch' around, in complete, willful ignorance of what that function is actually used for. It's also the rationale behind the "nerf nurse" or "nurse is easy" individuals.
That exact sentiment was what already killed off a bunch of killer options. Why change up their playbook now?
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@Carnivorone said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3119390#Comment_3119390
What you're saying is there's an arms race between survivor skill and killer skill. Fair enough, but you haven't given an explanation for why that should result in the most tedious part of the game being extended? Why not make other changes that don't induce game boredom??
The skill checks element was supposed to make generators less tedious and more stressful. Something you really had to lock in on to perform perfectly and possibly not pay quite as much attention as you could at your surroundings. Giving stealth killers a chance to sneak up. Something that would make that gradually intensifying heart beat terror radius a fearful game element instead of "Oh okay, they're nearby. Whatever." But when survivor skill passes the very low bar of skill checks as they are now, they stop being a function of game balance and become, as you say, tedious. They don't even make you hold down the mouse button anymore. It's nothing, and robbed of a challenge, generators progress with 100% efficiency every time.
Increasing base gen time is effectively factoring in slightly less than ONE missed skill check to every generator (8 charges of regression and pausing the gen progress for 3 seconds). When was the last time you saw a survivor team miss a skill check on every gen? When was the last time you saw a survivor team miss one single gen skill check all match, for that matter?
In a perfect world, they would tie skill check difficulty to your MMR. If you're new or very low ranking, skill checks would be easier, letting you hit Great results more often, and making gens take less time. If you're experienced and have a high ranking, skill checks should be WAY WAY harder, going double/triple speed with zones a fraction of the size they currently are. Something to make the game actually engage the survivors outside of merely holding W from one pallet to the next.
Instead, they decided to go for the lazy route of "+10 seconds." So if you have a complaint about gen times, blame the path of least resistance.
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@jaymiechan said:
Just to say, Steam Charts has the average playerbase being the lowest its been in about 2 years. Everything, even 3 weeks on, is saying their "major shake up" patch was for the worse, not for the better.
This is just objectively wrong. The players in January through May of this year are 5-10 thousand players lower than they are right now.
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When the fog was actually fog and had any impact on the game at all.
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I agree with the sentiment.
Every killer should warp the normal rules of the game in such a way that survivors should be expected to play differently from one match to the next. For some, that is already the case:
-Plague requires survivors to heal at fountains or remain injured the whole game.
-Pig requires survivors to go off on a mini adventure to find the key to their reverse beartrap
-Pinhead requires one survivor to find and solve the box, potentially subjecting themselves to a case
Now, a lot of those effects are really bad and those killers are very low tier. And this is because survivors, by and large, are of the mindset that "I should be able to just sit on a gen all game and escape every time." And if that sounds like an gross mischaracterization, I'd direct you to Pinhead. His various addons made the Box Hunt part of his power FAR more important for the survivors to do and when (predictably) survivors simply refused to do it and were punished for not playing any differently, the devs gutted his addons.
And that's really the problem here. You COULD make it so that Trapper had infinite new traps on a timer and he could place them remotely and survivors would have to break his supply crates to knock Trapper back to the state he's in currently. But the overwhelming number of current survivors simply wouldn't. They'd keep playing the same way they always have been, slamming gens and ignoring everything else. And when they lost, they'd complain about the killer being OP and demand nerfs. Which they would get, sooner or later.
If you want a second example: consider Undying, which turned Ruin into a secondary objective for survivors, requiring a 2-5 totem hunt to keep generators from regressing if they got forced off. We all know what happened there.
I am convinced that the people who play DbD would rather quit than get a secondary objective of any real significance.
If the game doesn't play out exactly identically every time, no matter what killer they're going up against, survivors will absolutely pitch the mother of all shitfits until the killer side gets nerfed enough for them to go back to their rote repetition.
tl;dr - It WOULD be a good idea, but they won't do it.
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Point 6: Skill checks were SUPPOSED to have a failure chance, which would organically increase the time it takes to do generators, effectively making them take longer than the 80 seconds they used to be. However, skill checks are a joke if you've played for any length of time, so gens fly and survivors have no challenge on their entire non-killer half of the game.
Point 7: Survivors had wildly over-ranked their MMR due to the State of the Game, and any time there is anything that makes the other side better, even by a little bit, they suddenly encounter a larger-than-normal number of losses, which makes them believe that there is some terrible game failure, not just that they're playing out of their league and need to down-rank to get balanced games again.