betelgeuseyes
betelgeuseyes
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I don't do it when someone's coming to save, I do it to give signal that it's safe to save or to save before I go onto second phase. Also, I do it out of boredom of hanging around. I try to time my flaps so that my characters hands don't go fully down, it's really difficult. I'll try not to do it so much now I know it's a turn-off.
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This just happened to me (PS4) as killer (Oni). I'm uploading a video now
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Something else I noticed is that a survivor can bait-juke the killer in the hooks radius, giving the hooked survivor free escape without even saving and taking a hit.
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Okay, don't get me wrong, there are different strategies for situations. The point I'm making is that multiple gens going off at once or in close succession is a good strategy if it can be pulled off, and shouldn't be completely written off. And Gen rushing is not the be all and end all!
Regression is not even that big a deal. So the match might last longer, it's better than not escaping at all!
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Being slugged isn't the end of the world. There's a few perks that you can recover yourself at least once. You can try to crawl to a safer spot for your teammates to heal you. Failing those, if you think you're gonna bleed out, go take a piss or get a glass of water. By the time you get back you'll be dead. But rage quitting because you got downed is behaviour I'd expect from most people these days.
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@_johnmichael_ said:
That would make it almost completely impossible for killers to catch a survivor on maps like Haddonfield, which already contain SUCH strong loops.
No.
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@Xernoton said:
Rizzo is a being of mystery, who lurks in the dark, stalks the forum and leaves their mark every now and then. Legends call Rizzo a Moderator for our overlords, the allmighty BHVR devs.
Oh and sometimes they will edit your post to change the phrasing slightly, move it to the correct category and apparently remove quotes of posts that were deleted.
Poor chap.
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@Annso_x said:
Rizzo is a moderator, the posts read "edited by" when they get moved into an other category even if the text wasn't changed for example
That makes sense, thanks for explaining.
However, a particular 'edited' post hasn't been moved, and I don't see it has been changed whatsoever. Unless Rizzo is correcting my grammar or punctuation or something
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@DemonDaddy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3560342#Comment_3560342
Depends on the regression perks, the strong one have requirements and the weak ones have to build up over time. Usually a simple gen tap can halt the regression and good survivors can make things like pop rarely useable. Regression gets beaten out by basekit progression, it takes mistakes and misplays by survivors to tilt gens in the killers favor.
Wow Yes, I know how regression works. It's still easier to deal with early on in the trial with 7 gens , as opposed to the end when there's 3. Not to mention popping gens simultaneously (or close to) being more effective than one after the other.
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@DemonDaddy said:
The best regression perks activate through the killers winning chase, which is why doing gens quick is the best option to negate regression. Where this strategy fails is survivors not doing the first 3 gens to cut the map and make patrolling far more difficult.
Not really. You can't negate regression. The killer is going to make a gen regress, be it the last one you're trying to finish, in which case survivors are going to give up on that gen and try get another gen started, or multiple ones you've left unfinished on the map, which is much easier to get an extra gen going when there's 7 still on the map than if your pressured off of the last gen to try get one of the other two started. Cutting the map is a given. Obviously that is the best strategy (although not necessarily always feasible).
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@Nazzzak said:
Easiest option is to get rid of the middle gen/s first. Keep the ones on the outer map going. That's the best way to not shrink the map.
Just make sure you do a little of two other gens. With any luck, those two will regress.
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@Hunkulese said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3560327#Comment_3560327
If you're taking every gen to 60%, it's going to take way longer to finish five gens than if you have multiple survivors finishing different gens, and if the killer is competent at all, they'll be hooking survivors and regressing your 60% gens. If you have 5 gens left and 3 survivors, you're not going to win even if they're all at 80%.
Doubling up on gens means having two survivors on the same gen. You didn't say anything about that. It's also pretty easy to figure out if another survivor is on the same gen as you.
Eh? No. It takes the same amount of time. If two get a gen to 60%ish it's going to take the same amount of time. At least if a lone survivor finds a few gens more than half done, they can get the gen done quicker than if it was 0%.
Killer is going to regress gens whichever strategy used. At least you can get gens done this way without a killer breathing down your necks.
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@MikeStev said:
Scourge Hook Pain Resonance & Pop Goes The Weasel : Haloooo
Hello, yes, what difference would it make? It's going to effect a gen anyway no matter which strategy
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@Hunkulese said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3560320#Comment_3560320
The theory is awful. The faster the gens get done, the more likely the survivors win. Just pay attention to which gens are getting done to make sure you're not giving them an easy three gen and avoid doubling up on gens until the end. It's a solo queue proof strategy.
"The faster the gens get done, the more likely the survivors win." That's a fallacy. Gens can only go so fast.
Also, how does one know which gens are being done in soloQ without wasting time checking all 7 gens? And what do you mean "avoid doubling up on gens until the end?" Isn't that what I already was saying? 😆
"SoloQ proof strategy." that's IF no other survivor(s) do the wrong gen.
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@OneGoodBoyDemo said:
The theory is good but there is a small big problem : soloQ.
Yeah well that's part of the reason I made this topic to get the word out. Then soloQ wouldnt be a nightmare.
@Nazzzak said:
Easiest option is to get rid of the middle gen/s first. Keep the ones on the outer map going. That's the best way to not shrink the map.
Nazzzak is correct. Couple that with this strategy and it's more optimal than finishing gens one at a time.
@tippy2k2 said:
As one of five killers who uses Oppression, I agree with this strategy
Ah yes, well I never said it was bulletproof. 😋
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3538950#Comment_3538950
They do get punished, make sure you stay in post game chat and gather all the info you need to make an additional report on: https://support.deadbydaylight.com/hc/en-us/requests/new and make sure you report them INGAME as well. If you can make screenshots on your system do that, if you can record a video file then record that and upload to youtube and include that link in the report on bHVR's website.
Also make sure you stay well clear of doing it yourself.
Yeah, no. I'll report them in-game but I don't have the time to make videos, trim them, convert them and upload them. It's clear this is happening across the board and these glitchers most likely have been flagged more than a few times, so it should be obvious who these people are.
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@bornagain234 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3538880#Comment_3538880
If the game wasnt so poorly coded and bandage fixed for 7 years, bugs like this wouldnt happen.
The fact it needs a killswitch and it is constantly used says enough. Entire maps, killers, perks get completely removed from the game.
It would be a huge job, but a remake would really help in the long run. The game didnt have 30 killers + and it becoming as big as it has from the start, and its just been bandaged over. Its getting worse and worse.
Answer this, how does this even happen?
Good question. Is it possible the Devs could have purposely put this bug in to mess with us?
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@MrSlayer said:
Here's something I'm curious about. When there are no gens left and you get a late hook, do you defend it?
If I don't have no way out or blood warden I'll guard the hooked survivor and try to grab a rescuer. That's what you do as killer. If I have no way out or blood warden, I don't because I can probably get them back on hook and hopefully another survivor.
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3448736#Comment_3448736
You still don't understand. MMR is correlated to the skill level of your opponents. If your MMR goes up it's supposed to give you harder opponents. Why should someone who's slugging every survivor get easier opponents so it's easier to bleed put opponents (which is what your idea suggests)?
I understand that, it has been discussed and I've addressed it. You don't understand. Good or bad survivors, makes no difference. Slugging for bleedout works at all levels. The fact it's even possible is bad enough. It doesn't matter if it's against the toughest survivors or the weakest.
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3448338#Comment_3448338
It's not clear. It's the opposite of clear. Do you want Killers who try to slug all 4 survivors to have an easier time slugging all 4 survivors (MMR stays the same or lowers) or to have a harder time slugging all 4 survivors (Killer MMR goes up)? If you want less 4 person slugs then you want the Killer's MMR to go up.
It doesn't matter how good survivors are, they're at the mercy of a four slug bleedout regardless. It should be clear to all who's perception isn't clouded. MMR should stay the same or go down or make unbreakable basekit or something, all the current system does is tell killers to forget about hooks entirely if you don't care about rewards and just want to troll those teabagging survivors.
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3448409#Comment_3448409
Hooking isn't more skilled than slugging. Any slugged survivor could easily be hooked. The idea that killers have to play a specific way to be skilled is a toxic mindset.
Not at all. Hooking a slugged survivor is not easier. A survivor can have flip flop, boil over etc. And another survivor can blind / stun the killer I've already mentioned sabotaging. Don't ignore the facts, slugging ALL survivors and bleeding them out is simpler. You can do this to the highest skilled players thanks to this MMR. That is a toxic mindset.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3448400#Comment_3448400
So killers can maintain their low MMR by bleeding out survivors? So they get to bully survivors while not having to worry about their MMR?
Why are you concerned about the killers MMR anyway? It Is Not A Reward System.
When/If you eventually understand that, you won't give a crap about other peoples MMR.
Pips/Grades IS the reward system, and if they bleedout instead of sacrificing survivors, then they get less pip progress. That's the punishment you're asking for.
Forget about grades & rank, we're talking MMR.
It takes the least skill to bleed out survivors. Skill is sacrificing survivors. The consensus is intentionally bleeding out survivors is just a way of trolling survivors. With current MMR, they get to troll the best survivors instead of them being matched with the best killers.
The MMR should be adjusted or make bleeding out more difficult ie via add-ons or basekit.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3448373#Comment_3448373
It absolutely is. The survivors are losing out. You don't want killers to kill survivors in any way being 'rewarded' for it by going down in MMR to get easier games. Otherwise you'll get an epidemic of bleed out smurfs.
Then don't have the killer go up MMR for bleedout, just keep it as is.
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@Crowman said:
If the killer is able to slug all 4 survivors and have them bleed out, they shouldn't still be at that mmr and having them go up is fine.
There's honestly nothing inheritably more skilled about using hooks and generally the best play is to kill survivors with the least amount of hooks you can.
@nars said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3448125#Comment_3448125
Theres no imbalance, because going for slugs is inherently throwing by doing it constantly. Unless you get a 4 down situation, which takes skill, then they arent getting bled. And besides if they werent gonna get bled out then the killer would just hook them all and they'd die anyway.
Ok, your legs must hurt from jumping to so many conclusions. How did you even get that idea from what I said? All I said was it isnt fair all survivors should have to escape. Thats inconsistent. Thats unreasonable and that is prevented by things out of your control and individual skill. Hence, it shouldnt be that way.
Just because you say "inherently" doesn't mean you're inherently clever or indeed correct.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3448338#Comment_3448338
It's not supposed to be a reward system. You seem to want it to reward 'healthy' gameplay. That's not the point. It's supposed to separate players who succeed from those who don't, and if according to you, bleeding out survivors is such an easy way to succeed, then that should push killers higher to a point where it's not. It's the entire reason why matchmaking was disconnected from Ranks/Grades, which IS a reward system.
Precisely. Bleeding survivors out isn't succeeding. Sacrificing them IS.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3448334#Comment_3448334
I don't think you understand the purpose of MMR.
It is not a reward system.
It is clear I know it's not a reward system.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3448331#Comment_3448331
Then please re-read my previous post.
Then just bleed out survivors consistently over multiple games. It's not difficult at all.
I'm at iridescent 1, I can't go higher. If I'm bored I can bleed out for like a week and then stop, play properly to grade back up if I wanted to.
Why they base MMR on "dying by any means" is silly. At least sacrifice, Mori whatever. Bleed out is the simplest way to kill and also the worst.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3448320#Comment_3448320
... you just said you think MMR should NOT go up for bleeding out.
Yes. You should have to sacrifice them on the hook. That's what the game wants you to do. That's the objective.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3448315#Comment_3448315
MMR would be broken IF this was true.
Killers could still bleed everyone out (if it's so easy) and then EVERYONE's MMR goes down, which means they could harrass new players like this.
Again: MMR IS NOT A REWARD. If anything, it is a punishment for trying too hard.
No. Killers MMR goes UP for zero hooks and just bleeding out. Survivors go DOWN. the reward for the killer is being able to do this on better survivors, pushing them down to Vs worse killers =trolling + boring games for survivors + harder games for worse killers. This messes up the whole point of MMR.
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Too right I block the hook to save my teammates. I'm also iridescent 1 with killers.
Don't make this about me. If you don't hook your grade goes down but your MMR goes up if they simply bleed out without hooking. It goes against the game rules and rewards slugging if you don't care about points or grades and just want to keep survivors from playing good killers. The MMR system is just broken then.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3448301#Comment_3448301
Nobody frees themselves from the hook without Deliverance. Self unhook has a 4% chance to succeed, so nobody does it until it's too late, and 96% of the time they kill themselves in the process. It's certainly not something killers worry about, and on the rare occasion it succeeds, the survivor is likely still going to end up dead anyway because it only happens in a dire situation.
It's really not easier to kill all survivors by bleeding them out. It only works with a select few builds, namely Sadako's Condemned build in which she eliminates survivors through her Stare, or Nurse/Blight who can down survivors quick enough to keep up the pressure required. Any other killer (and even with Nurse/Blight depending on how the survivors play) will struggle to keep all survivors down, you slug one, and someone else will pick them up.
Dude, a killer is going to make sure a survivor trying to save a downed survivor gets downed too. By trying to hook them, they can bodyblock, sabo the hook, blind you with flashlights etc.
Any killer can down all four and bleed them out easier than sacrificing them and that is much easier than doing five gens and a gate.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3448293#Comment_3448293
The killer needs to kill them, whether that's by hooking or bleeding out doesn't make much difference. It's not exactly easy to down all four survivors at once, it's no easier than hooking all survivors at once. If a survivor can be rescued from a hook, they can be rescued from the dying state too. It takes 2 minutes to die on hook, and 4 minutes to bleed out on the ground. So relying on survivors to die on the ground is a much bigger gamble than hooking them, they get twice the time to be rescued (or pick themselves up with any of the various perks for recovering from the dying state) and if they are, you've made no progress at all.
By putting a survivor on hook there's a chance they can free themselves. By leaving them slugged, they have to have no-mither, unbreakable or soul guard. If you hook them there's more chance of them being freed. By letting them bleed out there's less chance of them surviving.
The whole point is to sacrifice survivors on hooks. But this MMR rewards killers for no hooks at all. It is quite easy to bleed out survivors especially with perks.
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@Seraphor said:
What do you mean "all survivors have to escape"?
Killer MMR scales depend on how many survivors die/escape. A 2K is roughly neutral.
Survivor MMR is individual, if YOU escape, it goes up, if YOU die, it goes down.
I wasn't sure about that, thanks for clarifying.
My point is, in order to escape, 5 gens and a gate needs to get done aswell as survive the killer and their powers.
All the killer needs to do is down them. Not even hook them.
And you guys think that's fair?
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3448125#Comment_3448125
If a team of survivors group up for the killer to slug them all and bleed them out, then the killer likely was significantly better than the survivors.
Slugging has the most counterplay as it's much harder for killers to just camp a slugged body to death and a fully recovered survivor is quick to pick up. As long as survivors aren't just grouping up and attempting to pick up a non-recovered survivor, there's no reason for the entire team to be all slugged. Especially with the HUD changes that show you the recovery status of the slugged survivor.
No. Just, no.
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@Crowman said:
If the killer is able to slug all 4 survivors and have them bleed out, they shouldn't still be at that mmr and having them go up is fine.
There's honestly nothing inheritably more skilled about using hooks and generally the best play is to kill survivors with the least amount of hooks you can.
But you don't even need to hook them at all. You can go up by simply downing and letting them bleed out. How can you honestly not see the imbalance of that?
@nars said:
or maybe it just shouldnt be that all survivors have to escape
Right, so once the last gen is done, the game should just end?
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@truthserum21 said:
I play roughly 100-120 matches as survivor per day. Usually I get about 20-25 friendly ghostfaces or someone else doing a challenge or daily who wont chase, attack, or do anything except their minor task. Then I also get roughly 30-35 AFK Pinheads and a few random other killers who get passive bloodpoints from their kit that just swing their weapon and turn in a circle. The y always have Beast of Prey, Distressing, and Lightborn. Sometime Corrupt Int or Thrill of the Hunt.
I bought this game to play it. The fact that 50% or MORE of the matches I queue into are these types of matches is outright unacceptable. Can we please make this type of thing a first offense permaban to any account who does this. Also can we revoke the rights to the content the account purchased as well so they cant just game share or account hop without having to purchase all content over again on a new account?
If this sounds extreme to anyone then maybe we can just remove rift challenges and daily tasks? Also remove the bloodweb and bloodpoint system so that playing the regular game would be just like customs? If players dont have selfish incentives it would really make the quality of life on this game much better.
It doesn't happen as often to me as it does to you, but I do feel like farming should be deterred because I do see it more often than I would like.
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I've turned the music down to zero. Still I must listen to looping trumpets
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@ReikoMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3430929#Comment_3430929
That's such a unlikely edge case these days, I don't even think I've seen people go for that in literal years.
If you want to slug them you can go for it, but it ultimately is just a waste of time because you can't time out deliverance you can only deal with the situation of whether they use it or not. That perk is the least of your problems of this I assure you, but you could just run Make Your Choice and force hook trades if you're that concerned. I don't feel it is worth it, but is another option.
Why waste a perk slot for make your choice when so many better perks, add-ons and powers inflict exposed (if that's your style)?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3430925#Comment_3430925
I mean, I guess.
It's an extremely unpopular perk. I don't know why you'd even bother
Why? if someone has unbreakable, slugging will force them to use their only recovery, rendering it useless for the rest of the trial, and if anyone has soul guard, now you know. Forget about nerfing deliverance, just delete the perk altogether.
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@ReikoMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3430919#Comment_3430919
Well only one survivor can unhook at a time so by default you only have to do deal with maybe one or two deliverance users at a time. Also Deliverance on it's own just isn't very good as a survivor perk so people tend not to run it which means you're less likely to see it to begin. Playing around it doesn't really require anything special as the survivor just unhooks themselves only to be in a position to get put right back on the hook unless they have DS and even then that isn't a big deal.
One thing you will learn if you're new to dbd is that it is better not to put a ton of thought into beating survivor perks as the killer. It's better to focus on how to deal with them regardless of the perks they bring. Deliverance doesn't take any special tactics to deal with, but something like Adrenaline or Mettle of Man(when it works) are more the sort of thing you have to actually put thought into. Deliverance is never really going to require more thought than just downing and hooking the person again.
Now if you specifically just want to try and do something specific you could just not hook the person you suspect has deliverance until the end game. If they get hooked last then they just die, but that isn't something I would take the risk to do when just rehooking them is so easy.
Not true. A team of survivors can all have the perk and unhook eachother on second phase. And there's no way of telling who has the perk until they've freed themselves. That's why slugging is THE only method to counter it.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3430922#Comment_3430922
Okay.
So if Deliverance isn't a big deal, why do you keep mentioning it?
Because it's counterplay is slugging. Hahaha
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3430919#Comment_3430919
Why exactly is Deliverance so big of an issue for you?
It's not. I just hear a lot of complaints about slugging.
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@ReikoMori said:
Deliverance doesn't really offer such a strong amount of value to play around it. At least not by slugging.
Is there another way to beat deliverance? How else do you stop 3 survivors from unhooking one? I'm pretty sure THE only way to beat deliverance IS to slug.
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If there's a big enough demographic, anything is possible. $$$
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3430870#Comment_3430870
You mean you play around a possible Deliverance by never allowing any unhooks by slugging everyone?
Not me personally but that could be a driving force to killers slugging. In other words, the existence of deliverance perk only encourages slugging that much more.
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In order for deliverance to activate, a survivor needs to unhook. How do you stop survivors from unhooking? Slug.
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@KateMain86 said:
I can understand some situations for 99 gens and chests, but not doors. Its far better to open the door completely than to get there and lose the save because the door was closed. Maybe this is better managed in SWF, but solo que you're taking a big risk doing this. Opening the door still gives you plenty of time to go in for saves.
Fair. But as long as someone stays at the gate switch, leaving the switch leaves your team vulnerable.
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Map 'pick up item/interactions' to triangle/Y. This is just a simple fix, but you can't expect every player to remap their buttons. I don't know if this issue is present on Xbox but on playstation it sure is. It's a huge problem when running power struggle with teammates dropping my pallet.
Maybe even consider making the pallet not droppable while I'm under itwith that perk equipped.
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@IWasLrft2Die said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3405265#Comment_3405265
Fact 1. No one enjoys being slugged, especially for a prolonged period of time.
Fact 2. Being alive longer doesn't equal having fun in the game, if it did people would just tap gens and hide in lockers in basement. Maybe it technically leaves you alive longer as a survivor but people already intentionally die or DC if they get hurt early. Waiting for the bleed timer, then to be hooked, then to be saved would take longer than eating the DC penalty.
Fact 3. This goes directly against killers goal of hooking survivors.
Fact 4. This would encourage more slugging focused gameplay which no one wants. That's a big reason twins aren't popular to most people on either side.
Fact 5. Final survivor would just be left bleeding out until 45%.
Sorry, but this is all around a bad idea and no one wants this. Who would run a perk that forces the killer to slug them for a long time?
This is YOUR opinion. How can you speak for everyone when you say noone wants this. You keep ignoring the boon totem and changing % idea in your hypothesis therefore it's very obvious you just like shutting things down and telling people their ideas suck.
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3405273#Comment_3405273
Hooking survivors is the killer's main way to push their objective forward. I'm not sure why you deem this an issue.
The discussion isn't about me. Leave me out of this. It is an issue. Like I said previously, if a grippy killer insists on instantly carrying every survivor to hooks and nobody is saboing or saving for example, bleed out mechanic doesn't come into play in that scenario. Please do not expect me to reply to the same questions repeatedly just because you don't have the will or capacity to read posts or even (god forbid) see another viewpoint other than popular opinions.