SlipperyFunTime
SlipperyFunTime
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@powerbats said:
@SlipperyFunTime said:
@ThePloopz said:
All this post does is add more fuel to the toxicity fireRight. Because saying something about all the irrational butthurt in game is the same as contributing to it. You're a real brainiac.
Well lets see I could post all the pics and videos of Killers being jerks and or toxic both in game and chat but that'd mean both sides need to take responsibility for when their jerks. You're title blames it on survivors being entitled, where's the killer entitlement bashing?
I've been in queues where we're all low ranked/newbs and the killer either rage quits the lobby instantly or waits to see the offerings/map before quitting. They chase someone and don't get them down in 30 secs quit, down them and no one takes the Hooked camping bait, quit.
I've had just as many killers rage quit as survivors lately because they couldn't have it easy. For awhile it was survivors quitting the moment they got hit/downed/hooked/about to get sacrificed. That's still a major issue but killers have been doing it way more often lately and it hasn't been due to looping or anything else.
So to sit there and say entitlement survivors are the issue while ignoring the idiots on the other side is HYPOCRITICAL. Both sides have their jerks on them and yes it gets worse at higher ranks but don't act like killers are innocent either.
Just as many killers DC as survivors? Ridiculous. Nobody believes you. Pretending you know the killer's motivation is ridiculous. Such nonsense about all the supposed killers who rage-quit because they can't "get them down in 30 seconds" and "no one takes the hooked camping bait". Again, nobody believes you. That's ridiculous.
Also, there's no such thing as rage-quitting a lobby. A killer is not obligated to start a match every time. You playing the victim because killers will sometimes leave a lobby before a match even starts is ridiculous.
Again with the phony victim stuff and the false equivalencies. A real brainiac.
What, do you feel guilty because you're a survivor who DCs and complains about camping/tunneling in chat? Is that why you are trying to hard to invert reality and pretend killers are just as bad with the DCs and in-game chat tantrums as survivors? Nobody who has played this game even 50 hours and has half a brain thinks killers are just as likely to do that crap as survivors. Give me a break.
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@Brady said:
@Lumi83 said:
camping is a legitimate strategy. sometimes it pays off most times it doesn't.
personally it bores me. I have used it a few times at the beginning when I was new to killing.
most killers don't even camp these days anymore, except for newer killers. there are of course those killers who do camp, but they are a minority.
You've clearly haven't played on console.Anyway, camping is a fine strat. Camping & face camping are too different things. Kind of a ######### move if you facecamp, but people only find it a problem because you are indeed ruining the individuals experience. (I'm talking about facecamping those innocent, non-looping sweethearts who don't clickityclick your way into hell). Remember, if you were immobile and had no way out, your frustration would be evident too. You guys just don't face the problem of not being able to conduct to gameplay (i.e being immobile on a hook and not be able to do anything, literally, anything but sit there and watch you camp)
Facecamp that annoying prick tbh I'm all for that, hell I've been facecamped for being a douche ingame towards killers and I just say gg afterwards cause he had every right to.
I'm just gonna make this clear: I find killers, not all, but most usually go: "Camping is a strat! It's fine! Survivors need to stop complaining", follow the typically, "Do something about pallets! Fix Survivors! This game is annoying for Killers!" and most don't realize their behaviour with camping is no better than those pesky survivors. Yes, camping can be compared to looping as the gameplay isn't essentially a fair, enjoyable gameplay for the opposite sides. Still a viable strat, but like I've said before, they aren't necessarily respected ones. I way more respect a killer who managed to 4 KO all of us survivors with each survivor having been 3 hooks + no camping involved whatsoever than one who camped me first-hook. Or respect a survivor who escaped without barely any looping involved and more-so jukes.
Look, every side has complaints. That is fine. There will always be arguments about how to better balance the game. The issue is who uses those complaints to justify disconnecting in game and throwing tantrums during the in-game chat. That is my problem with survivors- for they do a lot of this and it is what makes this community toxic. The ragequitting killers and killers who throw tantrums in chat about how survivors play should be about 1 to 4. But that's not how it is. That ratio is more like 40 to 1. In hundreds of matches over hundreds of hours as both killer and survivor I rarely see killers throw tantrums or rage quit. It happens continually from survivors. That is the issue.
Also, I can't stand it when killers support the idea that camping, in any form, is somehow bad for the killer to do. That implies the survivors are justified in this rage-quitting, tantrum-throwing behavior. They are not. The entitled survivor is the cancer of DBD and killers should never apologize for camping/tunneling, just as survivors don't have to apologize for flashing/blocking/looping etc. But again, one side overwhelmingly uses their complaints to justify DCs and tantrums, the other side rarely does.
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@ThePloopz said:
@SlipperyFunTime I’l make this very easy for you to understand. Both sides are toxic. Both sides should not be toxic. Both sides should stop being toxic. Instead of that you decide to focus on one side and call them out even though both sides are toxic. Which calling one side out rarely ever works and I know if I was a toxic player and I saw this I’d say screw this guy he’s just another player who blames survivors for everything and I’d just continue or be even more toxic moving forward. People like you who do this are part of the reason toxicity doesn’t decreaseYeah, you probably would double-down on your crap behavior. After all, you have failed to understand the basic idea of my post. In some braindead fashion you have decided I am complaining that survivors complain- and pointing out in the same braindead fashion that both sides are "toxic." I explicitly corrected you but it's like you can't even read. You just trudge on like a zombie. Unbelievable.
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@ThePloopz said:
All this post does is add more fuel to the toxicity fireRight. Because saying something about all the irrational butthurt in game is the same as contributing to it. You're a real brainiac.
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@SadonicShadow said:
+1 Its insane the level of entitlement i see from survivors. Today i had a squad that genrushed me with bnp's. I only managed to catch one guy just as the final gen came online. You bet your ass i camped him to death. One of his SWF buddies hung around and i managed to catch him. I camped him into the ground aswell. In the post game chat they were salty, saying camping should be banned and that i should have let them make the save. Like lol what am i supposed to do. You blitz the gens with BNP's before i can even get my first hook and then i am the bad guy for atleast ensuring the one catch i managed to get becomes a secure kill.Then just yesterday i had a wannabe toxic squad. Clicky, clicky flashlights, D strike, the whole nine yards. They played like ass and i dumpstered them with 4 gens left. 3 of the 4 DCed on me. I just dont get it sometimes. The survivors have been babied so much by the devs that they have come to expect free wins. That any sort of challenge presented to them in any capacity is all of a sudden OP and needs to be nerfed. This is what happens BHVR when you try and balance your game around noobs and hold there hands every step of the way. They come to expect ez games and throw a ######### fit when things go south.
Yes, exactly. This is the common experience for anyone playing killer in DBD. This is also why I get frustrated whenever killers apologize for camping/tunneling or when devs sympathize with the survivor complaints about camping/tunneling. Sure, the devs have said explicitly that camping/tunneling are legitimate tactics, but that is buried in the dev streams. The whole culture of DBD is one of survivors crying "waaa, do something about 'toxic' camping killers" and not enough people telling them to STFU and learn to lose like adults.
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@Juya said:
@Shadoureon said:
Same can be said about killers complaining about looping, flshlighting and BNPing so your point is? Tired of people whining like kids when theres 2 side of the coin.This, both sides are whining hard when they want to.
And, hey OP! Stop pointing as if ALL survivors are like that.
Both sides have their complaints. My original post was simply that the complaints survivors have are used as justification for disconnecting and acting like babies in the post-game chat. Yes, both sides have their frustrations but no frustration should justify rage-quitting or throwing a tantrum in the chat, as is common with survivors.
For some reason people imagine I am saying that only survivors complain. Please, learn some basic reading comprehension skills.
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@ZombieGenesis said:
While I agree with everything you said there's also a bit of a flip side, just because a survivor does something to survive doesn't make them toxic. Using the tools DbD provides to a survivor to win is not, in and of itself, toxic. It can certainly seem that way because there are so many tools but just because a survivor disables a hook or a trap or blinds a killer with a flashlight doesn't make them toxic. Even looping isn't in and of itself toxic, it's a method the developers provided to survivors to do just that; survive. As a killer I often find myself thinking the worst about the survivors I play against and I'm often wrong, thankfully.That said, there are a lot of toxic survivors in the game too. I just try to not let them taint my enjoyment too much and turn me against ALL survivors.
I'm not sure who you're responding to. I don't think any playstyle is toxic. Yeah, I know people use the term "toxic" to describe almost anything a killer or survivor does that frustrates an opponent, but that isn't what my original post was about. I think that if you play in a style that isn't an exploit or a hack then its fair game.
My original post was simply that the complaints survivors have are used as justification for disconnecting and acting like babies in the post-game chat. Sure, both sides have their frustrations, but no frustration should justify rage-quitting or throwing a tantrum in the chat, and both of these are common with survivors.
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@The_Manlet said:
Breaking the totem, no. The rest, absolutely. Hell, flashlight blinding is an attack on the player himself, blinding him in real life if he's in a dark room, which is a good idea when you want to actually see that crouching Claudette.
You completely failed to comprehend my original post. I am speaking specifically about rage-quits and cancer in the post-game chat. I am not talking about general complaints people have when they play. Obviously. You're supposed to be "attacked" by the killer. Survivors are supposed to frustrate and thwart the killer in their attempt to escape. That has nothing to do with what I'm talking about, which is the way survivors use their complaints as justification to rage-quit and throw tantrums in the chat.
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@The_Manlet said:
It's because the grind is a large part of the reason why people play the game so much, and when you kill a survivor, especially early on, you're screwing them out of bloodpoints. If it weren't for the grind they'd get a lot less salty when they lose and be a lot less antagonistic. Survivors barely get any BP even when they win, so making them lose is a personal attack on them.Aww, and the average match lasts a whole few minutes! So awful! Its a "personal attack" to make the survivor lose by camping/tunneling!
Tell me, when is it a "personal attack" on the killer? When the killer's hex is immediately removed? Is that a "personal attack" on the killer? How about when the killer is followed around by a player with a flashlight, constantly hounded every time they pick up a survivor, and on a map like cornfield forced to drop multiple times. Is that a "personal attack" on the killer? How about when 'cheat with friends' means the first person dead reveals all perks and add-ons of the killer to the other players, so now they can play against nurses calling, not worry about NOED or break all hexes if NOED, etc, is that a "personal attack" on the killer?
See what I mean by entitlement? This is a competition. The killer is supposed to force the action. Sometimes the killer has a good match, sometimes the survivor. All this victim language by survivors is absurd- with "personal attack" for "making them lose" being one of the more hilarious I've come across. Thanks for that.
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@ThePloopz said:
@SlipperyFunTime a mori spammer (idk if this is the official term for it but this what I call it) is a killer who usually on the last survivor will keep starting and stopping the mori over and over. Not killing them just starting and stopping the animation. So tell me where was the entitlement in that? I’ll wait. Or was that me telling a killer how to play? I’ll wait happily for that one.As I said, "what is a mori spammer"? You don't even know if that's the right term for what you're referring to. You basically made it up. Also, sounds to me like starting the animation but not completing it wouldn't stop the survivor from bleeding out. That may be annoying but it's not like the killer can hold the game hostage or anything, eventually the survivor will die, one way or another. Besides, I've never even come across such a goofy thing. Starting but not completing the mori? This makes no sense for the killer unless, as you say, they do it on the last survivor to be annoying.
What you and Brady keep missing is that I'm talking about the cancer that is the community members being toxic to each other. Being irritated by camping/tunneling as a survivor (especially when it works well) and being irritated by looping/body blocking/flashing etc as a killer is to be expected- this is a competitive game. That doesn't mean people have to be jackasses to each other and turn the chat into whiny complaints. Again, it's the survivors overwhelmingly who complain in chat, who show ridiculous levels of entitlement.
Also, disconnecting is a b**ch move, regardless of whether it's survivor or killer. Just like the complaints in chat, this is overwhelmingly a survivor problem. The rates of rage quit disconnects isn't 4 to 1 survivor to killer, it's more like 40 to 1. So many entitled survivors who get butthurt when the killer doesn't play the way they want. That is why I say the toxicity in the DBD community would go down enormously if survivors adjusted their attitude and stopped bringing their cancer into chat.
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@ThePloopz said:
SlipperyFunTime said:@ThePloopz said:
@SlipperyFunTime it doesn’t matter who has more both sides are toxic so both sided get blame
Yeah, it matters who complains most because I don't want to hear whiny crap in game. I don't want to hear it as survivor or killer. I have played hundreds of hours of both. Rarely do I come across a salty, angry killer blaming the survivors for how they played. Rarely do I get a rage-quitting killer. But from survivors it is an endless stream of butthurt rage in chat and rage-quitting in game. Again, its not a ratio of 4 to 1, more like 40 to 1. The survivor entitlement about camping/tunneling is about 80% of the toxicity problem in DBD.
I’ve had many rage quitters in my time playing and some but not as many moris spammers. Stop trying to give free passes. Both sides are responsible. Honestly it just sounds childish.
Do you people have any sense of proportion? And what is a "mori spammer"? Ridiculous. Again with the entitlement, telling the killer how to play. Both sides are not equally responsible for the cancer that is DBD game chat. Not even close.
@SadonicShadow said:
@Frockz551 said:
One thing that annoys me about camping is that it is a VIABLE STRATEGY and even the devs say this yet killers get punished for getting a 4k if they camp because of the emblem system. This doesn't make much sense to me, as a killer, your job should be to stop the survivors from escaping regardless of how long it took you to do it or how many gens they completed. The only thing that should matter is that you killed the survivors, regardless of how you did it. I've had a 3k and only gotten a black pip because I would have a survivor hooked in basement while the exit gates are powered and therefore, I camp and 1 or 2 or sometimes even 3 will just rush the hook to try get some altruism at which point i down them and put them on a hook ( if they dont have BT or DS or some other bs crutch ) and only get a black pip.Thats why i think the emblem system was stupid for the killers. I honestly loved the victory cube for the killer. If the killer did his sole objective and killed the survivors then he deserves to rank up. End of story. The means on how that is achieved do not matter. It was the survivors that needed a new ranking system as bloodpoints were simply not a good metric.
I completely agree that the killer should be rewarded for kills, not how the kill is achieved. The killer is the killer, ffs.
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@ThePloopz said:
@SlipperyFunTime it doesn’t matter who has more both sides are toxic so both sided get blameYeah, it matters who complains most because I don't want to hear whiny crap in game. I don't want to hear it as survivor or killer. I have played hundreds of hours of both. Rarely do I come across a salty, angry killer blaming the survivors for how they played. Rarely do I get a rage-quitting killer. But from survivors it is an endless stream of butthurt rage in chat and rage-quitting in game. Again, its not a ratio of 4 to 1, more like 40 to 1. The survivor entitlement about camping/tunneling is about 80% of the toxicity problem in DBD.
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@Frockz551 said:
I say to leave it how it is. The killer got 3 kills and you got a get out of jail free card that you lost because the killer found the hatch first therefore it will be difficult to re-gain your get out of jail free card by either completing a gen or getting lucky by finding a key in an unopened chest or maybe one of your dead teammates dropped a key when they died. I feel like it makes sense to me and having the last survivor have the ability to re-open the hatch will just extend the game and give us a new form of a hatch standoff. I say the hatch is fine how it is on the ptb and I enjoy it as both killer and survivor.@Lumi83 said:
it does need a bit of tweaking as it is pretty strong atm. it has unnecessarily prolonged my games as killer during the ptb when I did close it. something does need a change.If you're worried about extending the game you're too late. Having the locked hatch already extends the match, and the too-long match was one of the primary complaints about the prior hatch stand-offs. The unintended consequence of the locked hatch, as Lumi83 noted, is that the last survivor becomes overly cautious, paralyzed by the impossible proposition of finishing the gen/s to escape. So "leave it how it is" in this hatch lock situation is no solution to ending the match faster.
My suggestion of a lengthy cleansing action is much better, as it entices the survivor to be active in hopes of actually escaping. Don't worry, that situation still heavily favors the killer.
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@ThePloopz said:
AlexAnarchy said:@ThePloopz said:
SlipperyFunTime said:
@deadwolfwalking said: @DreadfulProton said: @deadwolfwalking said: camping is a subjective term. its in relation to other survivors.... if they're close, you're 'guarding the hook'. if they're far away, you're 'wasting your time'.... 'camping' is just a dirty label made for survivors to shame killers into doing what they want.... Yes. And "toxic" is a misused label killers use for survivors who use the tactics made available by the devs to out play the killers. There are legitimate reasons to camp as killer for sure. But camping your first hook with no one else near you is not only a waste of time, but rightfully labelled as camping. The glorious moment when the pig downs the first survivor, tea bags, then camps, should in no way be frowned upon lol. you're absolutely right.... What is this "rightfully labelled as camping" nonsense? Anytime a killer hangs around anything, whether it be a particular gen or exit or hooked survivor, that killer is camping. The only question is whether people should feel entitled to complain about camping as if the killer did something wrong. In my opinion the answer is NEVER. A survivor should never complain about camping as if the killer did something wrong. The killer isn't there to be an artificial intelligence for the survivor and make sure everyone has a good time. This is a competition. The killer is not the friend of the survivor. The killer doesn't need any opinion by the survivor on how he should camp "correctly" or not at all. If you flip the situation the absurdity of this is clear. Would a killer lecture a survivor that he looped too much, or at the wrong time? Do killers make up goofy words for the "sins" of survivors, like calling anyone who uses a flashlight a "flasher" and then whining like babies every time someone uses a flashlight? You know, as if using a flashlight is a sin and the survivor should feel guilty. Do killers justify disconnecting because of an A-hole "flasher" or some other such nonsense? In other words, the survivor didn't play the way the killer wanted the survivor to play, therefore WAAA! Worst thing about this game is the entitlement survivors have about camping/tunneling. Survivors need to get it through their thick skulls that camping/tunneling are not "wrong-play sins." They need to get it through their thick skulls that killers can camp/tunnel whenever and however they want. If by some miracle the survivors accepted camping/tunneling as legitimate tactics for killers the toxicity in the DBD community would go down by at least 80%.
See but the funny thing is some killer players actually do all those things you listed minus the calling them a flasher part so I don’t understand why you seem to think the survivors are the only entitled ones.
4 entitled survivors for each 1 entitled killer..simple math : P
Survivors are not the only, but they are by far the most.
So nobody should be complaining about entitlement anymore considering both sides do it. It just looks stupid at this point. Almost forgot :P
So I have played hundreds of hours- as you people probably have. The killers rarely bring toxic nonsense into chat. You would think the ratio of cancer the survivors bring compared to the killers would be 4 to 1. Not even close. more like 40 to 1. The survivors really are the problem when it comes to bringing their toxic entitlement to chat. Sure, killers and survivors have aspects of the games they don't like, things they should probably take to the forums to promote change. But when it comes to the in-game chat it's all about survivors and their entitled BS, usually because the killer didn't play they wanted the killer to play.
Just because killers and survivors both have their complaints doesn't mean there is any equivalency between who brings the toxic cancer into the game itself. Hands down survivors are the problem here. It's hard to even have a human conversation in the game chat considering the amount of butthurt, crybaby cancer about "waaa you camped/tunneled" coming from survivors.
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@deadwolfwalking said:
@DreadfulProton said:
@deadwolfwalking said:
camping is a subjective term. its in relation to other survivors.... if they're close, you're 'guarding the hook'. if they're far away, you're 'wasting your time'.... 'camping' is just a dirty label made for survivors to shame killers into doing what they want....Yes. And "toxic" is a misused label killers use for survivors who use the tactics made available by the devs to out play the killers. There are legitimate reasons to camp as killer for sure. But camping your first hook with no one else near you is not only a waste of time, but rightfully labelled as camping. The glorious moment when the pig downs the first survivor, tea bags, then camps, should in no way be frowned upon lol.
you're absolutely right....
What is this "rightfully labelled as camping" nonsense? Anytime a killer hangs around anything, whether it be a particular gen or exit or hooked survivor, that killer is camping. The only question is whether people should feel entitled to complain about camping as if the killer did something wrong. In my opinion the answer is NEVER. A survivor should never complain about camping as if the killer did something wrong. The killer isn't there to be an artificial intelligence for the survivor and make sure everyone has a good time.
This is a competition. The killer is not the friend of the survivor. The killer doesn't need any opinion by the survivor on how he should camp "correctly" or not at all.
If you flip the situation the absurdity of this is clear. Would a killer lecture a survivor that he looped too much, or at the wrong time? Do killers make up goofy words for the "sins" of survivors, like calling anyone who uses a flashlight a "flasher" and then whining like babies every time someone uses a flashlight? You know, as if using a flashlight is a sin and the survivor should feel guilty. Do killers justify disconnecting because of an A-hole "flasher" or some other such nonsense? In other words, the survivor didn't play the way the killer wanted the survivor to play, therefore WAAA!
Worst thing about this game is the entitlement survivors have about camping/tunneling. Survivors need to get it through their thick skulls that camping/tunneling are not "wrong-play sins." They need to get it through their thick skulls that killers can camp/tunnel whenever and however they want. If by some miracle the survivors accepted camping/tunneling as legitimate tactics for killers the toxicity in the DBD community would go down by at least 80%.
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I agree the hatch closing is a bit too strong for the killer (and I killer main). Often there is more than one gen left to do, which means the survivor must announce his location to the killer upon completion of the gen. That makes evading a constant patrol of the last gens that much more difficult. The whole thing seems like a pointless exercise, the killer patrolling the last gens until bringing the match to an inevitable and predictable conclusion. The last survivor needs some help- make it a bit more sporting for both killer and survivor.
I think the simplest, best solution is to allow the survivor to perform a cleansing action to open the hatch. Make the cleansing action somewhat as lengthy as opening the exit, giving the killer a pretty good chance of catching the survivor at the hatch. And, of course, if hatch is opened after a closing and for some reason the survivor doesn't escape through it, the killer can close it once again, requiring a new, fresh cleansing action to open.
This simple change would give the killer two tactical objectives and not just one. Killer still needs to patrol the gens, but even after closing the hatch he must keep an eye on the hatch. The survivor can then play mind games with the killer, weighing the risk of working a particular gen against trying to open the hatch, depending on which the killer is patrolling more. By pivoting back and forth between the hatch and the best gen, taking opportunity to work on them where the killer's presence allows, a survivor has the potential to either escape the hatch or finish multiple gens. It would be hard, but it's possible.
As it stands now the killer closing the hatch is too easy and cuts off too completely the survivor's chance of surviving.
EDIT: The hatch shouldn't be closed by the killer, as it is now. When the killer goes to the hatch the killer should be able to put a metal grate over it. This will both allow the sucking sound of the hatch to continue and will alert a survivor that the hatch will require a cleansing action by sight alone (allowing the survivor to better strategize).
So the survivor can still hear the hatch. And if the survivor gives a sneaky peek from a distance and sees the metal grate attached the survivor knows the killer knows where the hatch is and has locked it.
The cleansing action should be about as long as an exit gate and it should accrue progress from each time the survivor interacts, like an exit. (The killer only knows if the hatch/grate is open or closed, the survivor knows how far progressed it is to being opened each time they interact with it, just as with an exit.) Considering how long it takes, most survivors will have to sneak to the hatch several times before being able to complete the cleansing action. However, killers will know survivors do this and will be likely to heavily patrol the area immediately around the hatch.
Again, it would still be hard for the survivor to escape but the survivor would have a sporting chance.