RomeroJane
RomeroJane
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- RomeroJane
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@mooasis said:
+1
the thing i want the most for this killer is to make head and body form feel truly dependent on eachother - as it is now you can pretty much ignore every single pallet on the map because of how overbuffed head form got. making the decision to chase someone in head OR body form should be a real question at every loop, not just going into body form to spit and then be discardedto achieve this i like the idea of keeping a small bit of slide for intestinal whip but making it a super straight and difficult to turn to establish its niche in more standard tiles, and then when you get to round fillers and such you use body form for the curved lunge and break zoning. they also def need to address the vault → headlong flight combo since it can be used right now to outplay god pallets, completely eliminating the need to use body mode to break :/
I fully agree with everything you said here! I really hope we can have skill floor and ceiling for this killer with micromanaging between the two forms!
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@ObsidianButterfly said:
How about we stop trying to turn her into a dash OR a projectile killer?
We have plenty of those killers already and it's getting incredibly boring and repetitive. We need variety and killers that do things differently.
Because even if you make a killer trap based you're still taking something from other trap based killers who do that job with less steps. One example is Freddy: Freddy had traps that hinder and he was reworked as he was considered weak, even with a teleport in his kit. Also OG Skull Merchant was mainly considered as an info killer, not a trap based one.
It's like Fighting Games: You have some types of characters and new ones are based around that. You've the zoner, the grappler, the one who goes for a more direct approach and high combos, the tanky who deals more damage with less hits… then the new ones either belong to one of these types or are hybrid of these.
In DbD trap based killers are on the weaker side unfortunately and are good mainly at staying in the same area (that often becomes a threegen or the basement area if someone is so unlucky to go down there): Trapper and Hag are already amazing trap based killers, but also really limited. Singularity is an hybrid, but works better than Hag because his trap gives him strong buffs in chase. If you want to keep Skull Merchant as trap based you need to give her lethality and a different kind of lethality, but at the same time being careful at not making her obnoxious as her OG version for area control. The only alternative is the "Pacify Version" someone else spoke about, but then you've to be careful at how applying it: more complex than Doctor and it's pointless, easier and more effective and it's gonna be obnoxious in another direction. -
@FMG15 said:
As of right now she feels pretty strong and it feels fun to use the dog. I see no need to change much aside from the fact that the dog shouldn't be able to jump the pallet as fast as they currently do. The pathing is still somewhat inconsistent but it has definitely improved a lot and they made changes in the latest ptb
My problem is not in the strength, but in how AI is a too important part of how the power works. A power should work in a certain way in all the situations you try it, not having even a 10% of "AI misscalculated the pathing". It's also mainly a suggestion to not have more AI Based powers for the future and making her debugging process a lot easier.
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@Peanits said:
First, I just want to make it absolutely clear that this is not intended to 'solve tunneling'. This change is solely to make the perk provide more consistent value when it activates, not bring an end to the entire tunneling playstyle. I wouldn't recommend approaching this with the idea that it will end tunneling entirely as that is not the purpose behind the change - you would be setting yourself up for disappointment.
Secondly, regarding disabling Killer powers: I see this getting suggested a lot, but this is not an option. It's one of those things that sounds really simple on paper, but once you start drilling down into it, it turns out to be a whole can of worms. Each Killer power works differently from one another, and there is no one-size-fits all solution that can apply to all of them. Each power would need to be considered on a case by case basis to determine what should happen when they're 'disabled'.
For example, even if you disable the Killer's power button to stop The Nurse from blinking, there are multiple Killers who may already have traps set up around the map - would these also need to be disabled, or are they okay since they were already there? Some Killers also have passive powers/mechanics, such as The Cenobite's Chain Hunt, which would also need to be considered. It would also limit the possibilities for future Killer powers since we would always need to worry, "But how would it work if it was disabled by this one specific perk?"
To be frank, this would be unsustainable. With over 30 Killers in the game and more on the way, having special conditions for each one would require far too much ongoing support just to make that condition feasible. To give an real example from the past, the original version of Tinkerer used to increase the effectiveness of all charge speed add-ons. Even with only a handful of Killers in the game at the time, it ended up being very confusing for players to keep track of which add-ons it could affect, a nightmare to balance because those add-ons could be too strong with the perk or too weak without it, and an unreasonable amount of work to upkeep as the game grew. In the same way, this would require quite a bit of additional work to be done for every Killer just to support one perk. It's one of the reasons that perks typically don't interact with powers, and the few that do are gradually moving away from that (e.g. Adrenaline waking up Survivors).
Don't get me wrong, it's a neat idea and the intention behind it is good, but it's way outside the scope for a single perk and could quickly turn into a confusing mess.
It sounds legit asking at this point: Is "tunneling" something the team aims at solving or something that is considered as part of the intended game design? Because even if DS doesn't "solve tunneling" it's gonna be the strongest answer to it (in my opinion: it already is), so it's gonna be played a lot, even more than now. Of course for "solving tunneling" it implies something that makes viable for killers to win consistently at higher levels without needing to go for these strategies.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3642219#Comment_3642219
What kind of use full addon do you aim for then? Because those mentioned are basically everything he s got? I mean this in the sense of what effects could use full addons for Hillbilly have that are not situational, meme like, or require you to change the normal curve playstyle completely.
The one point I agree on is lopro... I don't like the design of the addon, and basically already didn't like it before the change, because it puts players into lose lose situations...
But then again, what potential effects could addons for Hillbilly have? I would for example like some good brown addons like 5% speed (does not work in overdrive and 5% faster chainsaw Rev (does not work in overdrive) .... I mean sure we could slap status effects on chainsaw hits, but that is just really boring...
About turning rate, that simply doesn't work in Overdrive. Making it work like before is fine.
Cooldown is broken, missing a chainsaw is too rewarded, same for breaking a pallet.
Lopro, if these work only out of Overdrive, are fine.
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I think he's in a really good spot as base-kit, but his add-ons are really problematic:
- Cooldown add-ons have to go: not reduced numbers, not reduced conditions, they just have to go. Greased Throttle and Thompson Mix need changes.
- Turning rate add-ons have to be looked at: The turning offered by the combo is too much and allows to correct the trajectory mid-run too easily. Overdrive chainsaws are already hard to dodge if not with a predict, but turning add-ons make that close to impossible. Turning add-ons also allow weird interactions like going around a full Haddonfield building without ever stopping. This kind of interaction makes building up Overdrive too easy with no efforts.
- Lopro Chains have to still be a thing? I would suggest making these work only in normal saw and not in Overdrive. Overdrive is good enough by itself to counter a loop. His base-kit is solid enough now that extra-help feels unnecessary.
While the Turning rate should just be looked at for potential problems, cooldown add-ons are definitely problematic.
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I would revert his old flicks at the price of Scampering pallets outside of Slice & Dice. Honestly as high prestige Chucky since that change the killer feels a lot more stale and with a lot less skill expression, also the long cooldown doesn't help at feeling like attempting a fun play (and the game should be more about fun than being optimal, expecially in public lobbies).
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@UndeddJester said:
This is where I'm kinda in the middle.
While talking to @Xernoton, who explained the advanced flicks to me, the big issue that comes from the above changes are... you simply can't flick on console, it is not possible due to how the input works.
The skill expression is a big thing, and something I advocate for... I love facing a good Hillbilly, Oni and Wesker, I'm less enthused about the Blight, but I respect him, and the advanced tricks on these killers are out of reach on console. Chucky's limited turn arc for Slice and Dice + Scamper is really hard to use on console, there are a very select number of places you can use it and reasonably expect to score a hit, but PC players could subvert this limited turn arc and last massive flicks that console never could hope to do.
Having a killer who is basically locked out of controller use due to the nature of their power is not good. The scamper under pallet is possibly too easy on PC, but the current iteration where he cant flick makes him reasonably consistent across platforms.
If we get rid of scampering under pallets flat and are forced to use slice and dice, rather than flicks, I'd prefer his turn arc was increased instead, so the skill expression is more from him being able to position correctly and get his hits from his turn arc is there, but isn't such a huge disparity vs. console.
I do agree, that's why I shared the concern about that, but also about accessibility in general to not make it like "You need to move the mouse all around your desk", that would be a limit for who's physically not able to do it. Working on the base turn would be ideal.
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@Mandy said:
The 3 gen situation as a whole is being looked into, we are also going to revisit Skull Merchant, she has had some updates but we do want to address the 3 gen potential. Unfortunately neither of these things are quick fixes and with limited time and bandwidth it's not something that can be rushed out. However, we have not forgotten about these two things and they are actually being worked on.
This is a great thing to know. If I can give some tips for early changes, as Skull Merchant main, I think this stuff can help at making the experience less miserable against her in the short time. Also some of the changes I thought for her in general and other stuff I thought about after I made this document.
- Skillcheck Add-Ons have to go: Shotgun Speaker and Adi Valente are not healthy and make that playstyle too rewarding (Eternal, the best team in the world, admitted that skillchecks were the hardest part to manage during that showcase of 52 minutes). A fast fix can be increasing the possibility of having more skillchecks under the drone and decreasing the great skillcheck area for Adi Valente. In the long time I would suggest avoiding stuff that has effects on skillchecks at all.
- Brown Noise Generator: Oblivious is active for XX seconds (30?) after that a Clawtrap is deactivated. I think that Skull Merchant stealth potential should be applied from a correct use of her power and that add-on is too obnoxious as it is in its current status in indoor maps.
Of my suggested changes, longer clawtraps and unhackable status being removed are the most important and can be applied sooner than later. Unhackable is what makes her more oppressive, considering the time survivors have to wait to deactivate a drone safely and how she can just remove and replace the drone to restore the unhackable, making it kinda infinite. Removing unhackable would make the clawtrap gaming more effective and forcing the killer at taking choices based on the infos she gets, while getting some chasing buffs.
I know it takes time for a deeper rework, but maybe these tips can work while we wait for the more important changes, making the experience against Skull Merchant less problematic. Thank you for your time and patience <3
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As Skull Merchant I like to use the chasing add-ons to time and position these in the most effective way, adapting to the pathing of the survivors, also using the tracking offered by claw-traps and drones mid-chase and the macromanagement these tools offer to me for a playstyle I kinda made mine.
As survivor, Jane is... just important to me. Thanks to her being in game I can feel more myself, vent out and deal with dysphoria, but also celebrating my gender euphoria as trans woman. As gameplay, I enjoy the strategic aspect, the teamwork, trying to help my teammates as much as I can, translating Jane values in my playstyle :)
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Just discovered this thread and I love it.
I'm going to share all my stuff during one of these days, but I've a thousand of combos with all the cosmetics. As Jane Romero myself, I've to always look nice :3
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@CaulDrohn said:
Nice, finally a counter to slinger :D.
But jokes aside, how does this bug even happen in the first place? Astonishing :o
Edit: And how did you find that out?
Yeah, I really hope this will not become "a tech", but I had to report it ^^
I've no idea, but I tested it when I saw clips of "key techs" allowing to go through killers when they break doors and vault windows. Last time something similar happened it was with maps and I've seen clips of other people doing the same thing. I just thought it could happen again, but with keys now...aaaaand I was right
Also, it happens only with Slinger, other ranged killers are fine: I tested Plague, Huntress and Trickster
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I'm so happy you're discovering this project now and that you're appreciating it <3
With my friend and artist StaceyBlep we worked on this "recolor" of the recent Rockabilly set (also, pay attention to the med-kit as wel). Who knows...maybe this new interest towards these will be listened and welcomed by BHVR :3
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@Mooks said:
I always imagined that Jane is part of the LGBTQ+ community based on the „Head On“ perk being literally coming out of the closet :)
(And a new charity case DLC based on community inspired outfits would be really great!)
You literally got the same thing I always thought about too! <3
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@Madjura said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ebqbEYATAk
Additional video, the window seems to be considered solid for projectiles, as the clown bottles break when they hit the window, but you can walk through it.
The map was "Badham Preschool III" - I don't know if this happens on all variants of the map or only on this one.
Yes, the "wall" is solid for projectiles, but the blocked window has accurate hitboxes for the harpoon: it only goes through the small holes (and it's something new, they actually "opened" these with this update: I feel like something went wrong during the process)
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@Waveuh said:
what ? you have a blight addons on the deathslinger
Off-topic, but the explanation is: KYF mode, both Halloween add-ons are already on, we were curious to test these ^^
@Mandy said:
I can't access the link on We Transfer I'm afraid - do you have a youtube link or another link in which I can check this - thank you.
Sure, here it is:
https://youtu.be/OnIKzKS_f-U -
@Inji said:
I love pin up. Jane would look great in all of these.
Thank you!
Maybe Kate could have a pin-up skin as well, it would be cool :D