PwnyFish
PwnyFish
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The idea that survivors have to pick up some parts or gas has been said so many times, but I doubt BHVR cares too much about something like that. Its unlikely that something like this will happen..
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@KillermainBTWm8 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/558457#Comment_558457
Most people don't know when to stop chasing a survivor this is clear with Freddy. A big portion of his potential is being able to put everyone to asleep while also using perks like "Overcharge" and Lullaby to make the survivors regress the gens big time. People for some reason also don't realize the mind game you can master at the start of the dream transition if you know the timing when Freddy goes in and out of the survivors vision you can mind game. Add-ons make him really strong. He isn't really high tier but he still is way better than people believe. This is why I think the rework is going to make him way worse he can be a great gen stopper if the Freddy has mastered his killer.
overcharge adds 4second more of worktime on a gen..
its worth more if they can work 8+ seconds on a gen while sleeping than getting the overcharge skillcheck.
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Yes, and survivors who get hit by a killer should instantly die
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@weirdkid5 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/552047#Comment_552047
I would disagree that they are the easiest to balance.
Changing up just one character's matchup with another one is enough to change the meta into different counter picks and such. When you adjust a character in a fighting game, you have to make sure that you adjust it correctly for the matchup you are balancing, without destroying the rest of the character.
Just changing a single frame on any animation is enough to make or break a character in certain instances.
I will say though I do like LoL's new balance philosophy.
I didnt say it was easy. I mean, you have the least factors which you have to consider while balancing the characters.
Its a 1v1 where you have 1 character vs 1 character.
So if you have 10 fighters. If you are adjusting 1. You only have to consider how that change affects the matchup with the other 9. (in different ranks as well, thought I believe balancing in low skill gameplay doesnt really matter too much in fighting games. But im not really expirienced in fighting games.)
In league as an example you have a lot more factors.(combination of champions, summoner spells, items, blabla)
Same in dbd. You have killer powers, perks, maps, lighting, sound, the SWF factor(which would be easy to minimize though..). Also items and addons. These are, in my opinin a lot more factors which make it quite harder.
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We all know that DbD isn't balanced on skill and the possibilities a characters (Killers & Survivors) have using their accordingly.
Fighting games are probably the easiest to balance of all genres..
Rather go take a look at that:
https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-gb/2019/05/dev-champion-balance-framework/
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Adrenaline and balanced landing.
Adrenaline probably being the best perk for survivors atm. If it wouldnt be run by 90% of survivors, it wouldnt be as annoying.
But I think the issue there is more that most survivor perks just suck ass. I wish behaviour would be balancing them a bit more frequently..
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/551336#Comment_551336
@PwnyFish that’s hardly a valid rebuttal. When i play solo survivor i never have trouble keeping count in my head of what dull totems i’ve cleansed and any cleansed ones i’ve spotted. It’s not that hard.
Lets say you cleansed 2 totems and have seen 1 cleansed by someone else. 3 totems, gj. Are you now gonna run around the map finding the last 2 totems because you dont know if they are already cleansed or not? Im sorry, but this is stupid.
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Not to be insulting, but this is top notch terrible gameplay.. Ofcourse you dont leave the hook if they are swarming it, but you didnt even try to chase another guy?? You dont need to defend hooks as a killer, you need to defend your gens.
And I dont see how they tried to make your life hell.. They had some flashlights and tried to safe their teammates with it, obviously? There is nothing toxic about that.
You got the last down because of noed and snowballed some kills off the survivors stupidity..
This game could have easily been a 0 kill game, if the survivors were more competent.
Again as a tip, you want to defend your gens, not the hooks.
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I often use: BBQ, Pop, Surveillance,M&A
I really like the combination of BBQ,Pop and Surveillance on mobile killers. It can give you a lot of momentum. BBQ lets you see what other gens are being worked on, you can then move there and use pop to regress it, and keep it regressing with surveillance. Surveillance can also be used to to some sneak attacks when they try to work on the gen behind your back. You can just phase back to it and get an easy hit.
I wrote quie a post before, but somehow it got deletet when I posted it. Couldnt be bothered to write it all again, so thats the short TLDR..
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What I use the most: BBQ, Pop, Surveillance and M&A
BBQ: for bloodpoints and to keep your momentum after a hook.
Pop: works really nice together with BBQ, since you see survivors who are working on a gen on the other side of the map. You get over there, regress it and chase after the survivors there.
Surveillance: Works really nice together with Pop. Once you regressed the gen and chase another survivor, you can keep looking on the gen and see if another survivor goes back to work on it. You can phase back mid chase to the other survivor and get a free hit.
M&A allows you to get closer to survivors without using your phasing. It might result in an easy first hit, which then can be quickly followed by a hit with phasing, to get a fast hook(I am mostly using a quicker power activation addon).
A lot of times the survivors spawn together and start working a single gen. If you manage to find them and hook 1 guy before they finish that gen, you can regress it with pop and snowball really nicely from there. BBQ will let you know what the other survivors are doing. Surveillance will let you know if they are trying to sneak back to that high progress gen.
If you are in a chase with another survivor, dont go back to the unhooked one. They will likely heal up and not work on a gen(except if you cant find anyone else to chase). Its a bit situational. Your goal is to keep as many survivors busy with something else than working on gens. And if they are working on gens, you have pop to nullify a lot of that work.
Dont stick too much to 1 chase, especially if you know they have selfcare and will heal themselves up. If you see another survivor mid chase, you can start phasing and switch survivor, since a lot of times they wont expect that, you can get an easy hit.
I honestly havent played in red ranks since a while, only in green and purple. I mostly let the survivors live at the end, so I dont pip a lot because of that. And then the reset comes too fast.
But honestly, you can run a lot of different perks on spirit, since her basekit is really strong. You just gotta find a playstyle that works for you.
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They should just fix up protection hits..
Protection Hit: If you get hit while you are within 8m of another survivor, you get a protection hit. If thats too easy:
-> If you get hit within 8m of another survivor in the injured or dying state, you get a protection hit.
On another note. Does anyone know how protection hits actually work?Should they work like I said aboce? Can a dev explain when or what counts as a protection hit?
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Are you guys considering increasing amount of information solo survivors get up to the SWF level? If so, what things do you have in mind?
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@se05239 said:
Your idea has been suggestion hundred thousand times by hundred thousand users and it has even been tried out in a PTB, where it was exploited by survivors and canned.
I believe what was testet is to completly stop the hook progress, without any requirements(not sure about that).
I fail to understand how it should not work with a slowdown, if the chaser emblem for killers works exactly that way..
Special condition:
- The Quality of this Emblem will slowly degrade if the Killer remains within 16 metres of a hooked Survivor 10 seconds after hooking the Survivor.
- Does not apply if another Survivor is inside that radius.
- Does not apply if the Killer is in a Chase.
- Does not apply if it is the last remaining Survivor.
- Does not apply if the Hook is on a different floor.
- The penalty greatly increases within a radius of 8 metres.
- The Quality of this Emblem will slowly degrade if the Killer remains within 16 metres of a hooked Survivor 10 seconds after hooking the Survivor.
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It really shouldnt be. It could be a nice perk, without the TR requirement if used well.
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/545646#Comment_545646
Anything that's based on proximity to the hook is fundamentally flawed because survivors can force killers into certain areas. Furthermore, just from a game balance PoV, it makes no sense that the killer should be forced to allow for free unhooks.
Try thinking of rewards for leaving the hook instead of punishments for staying close. Keep in mind, however, that no matter what you do, camping will never go away as long as survivors reward it.
Not really. The chaser emblem even works that way.
Special condition:
- The Quality of this Emblem will slowly degrade if the Killer remains within 16 metres of a hooked Survivor 10 seconds after hooking the Survivor.
- Does not apply if another Survivor is inside that radius.
- Does not apply if the Killer is in a Chase.
- Does not apply if it is the last remaining Survivor.
- Does not apply if the Hook is on a different floor.
- The penalty greatly increases within a radius of 8 metres.
I dont agree with the "push out" mechanic, its too complicated of a mechanic. I think slowing down the progress with the same criterias the chaser emblem has would be much better.
But apparantly it got tested once(like 1-2 years ago or something) with the hook completly stopping when the killer is close and that got abused by survivors(survivors being able to make the hook last infinitly). And since slowing down the progress with the top criterias is the same as just stopping the progress, it gets hated on.
Its better to just cry nerf/buff/remove in here than bringing suggestions. Gets more attention.
- The Quality of this Emblem will slowly degrade if the Killer remains within 16 metres of a hooked Survivor 10 seconds after hooking the Survivor.
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@SpaceCoconut said:
Are you playing so you have more fun than frustration or do you prioritize the fun of others over your own?
I use NoED so I don't have to worry about gens being finished quickly since I know that if they rush without doing totems then I get a chance to come back.
If I sacrifice them all before NoED becomes active then I successfully defeated them with a handicap of 3 perks.
If they activate the last gen and NoED doesn't activate then they thoroughly defeated me and it's a gg.
Worry about your own fun. Because no one else prioritizes your fun over their own.
Except the issue that survivors dont know how many totems have been done. Which kills that whole argument of "just do totems".
To the question itself, using Noed is obviously fine, but depending on what killer you play, I wouldnt recommend it. On killers like nurse, billy, hag,spirit, myers and others I wouldnt use it except if you are going for a full endgame build with noed,bloodwarden,bitter murmur or something like that.
You have to realise that with noed, you have quiet a disadvantage until the endgame.
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yes. They said they will bring that when the dedicated servers are here.
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@Eguzky said:
Eeehh..Then you get people being jumped because they are focusing on the scoreboard.
No real need to know your score until the match is over.
And Survivor states are already shown: The HUD shows if they are healthy or wounded, and you see their aura if they are downed or hooked (but not if they are being carried)
What? That doesnt make much sense. If you get jumped beause you are looking at your score, then thats your fault?
Yes, it would lead to players playing the "healthier" way which bhvr is trying to bring in with the ranking system. Being able to see when you get points or lose points is quite useful for improving yourself and the system.
With survivor states I mean if they are in a chase, on a gen, on a totem. Things like that.
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the issue is, if ghostface isnt a monkey. he can just hide and your stalk on him gets completly reset. That makes looking at him useless.
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killers abilty sounds are gone too. Or it seems like they get affected by occlusion, not sure.
No nurse blink sound, no billy chainsaw
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no, its fine how it is now
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Thats what I said, the killrate data doesnt show a killers strength, but you refered to somekind of data from the devs. You said "Billy over performs across all platforms according to dev data". Which data were you referring to? I just assumed it was the high killrate which was in the graphs you linked in your post.
Billy is strong and free2play, its obvious that he has a high popularity. If nurse would be as strong on consoles as she is on pc she would be first there as well. Also the popularity only shows which is the most popular, you dont see by how much. What if billy is played at 25% rate and then hag is at 24%? So again, not much information gained balance/strength wise from the popularity graph(in relation to other killers).
If you know about some other data that you havent linked in your post, please show me.
Cheers
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@ThePaleKing_ said:
@PwnyFish Thanks for the response bud! I don't assume I am right on everything. The first thing is admitting these are actual problems rather than never seeking to improve the game for BOTH sides. If the devs would just throw things on the PTB more often things might actually get fixed.
Billy over performs across all platforms according to dev data. He is the number 1 killer in the game while Nurse is at the top of PC. It is too easy to create pressure as Billy because chases can end too quickly. He punishes survivors for the slightest mistake when Billy can make several mistakes and not be punished. A lot of the community doesn't want to deal with Billy. Nurse at least requires micro intensive gameplay and a lot of muscle memory. Billy is just timing and spacing which can be developed on any killer.
Could be his add ons or it could be that he has too much mobility. He is the only killer that gets practically free insta downs at base. Mikey has to stalk and the others need add ons to get exposure. Billy just has it and its easy to get on someones booty and end the chase instantly. It may also help if they fix the chainsaw hitbox.
The articles aren't supposed to be the end all be all for what should or shouldn't happen, just to get peoples brains moving in a constructive way. <3 <3 <3
What data are you talking about exactly? Because most stats ive seen, are essentially useless to determine the "strength" of a killer. For every single killer you have addons, maps, ranks and SWF that heavily influence the "strength" of a killer. As long as we dont have the information on which addon with which killer on which map on which rank(ignoring SWF) was used, its not worth a lot(maybe they showed that and I missed it?).
Look at the data you showed. Do you really want to say that Hag and Trapper are as "OP" as billy? https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/398/4A494UUNC0WZ.jpg
Now that Data might even be more screwed, because of a quite flawed ranking system, which could mean uneven skill on the same rank for survivors and killers.
Thats why I said, generally speaking, I like your post. I just disagree with a lot of balancing issues you suggested. Its definitly a useful post, unlike so many other posts on this forum which give me a headache..
Something im curious about, is there a datasheet that shows the general rank distribution for survivors and killers? That might be something to start to look at. If its not something close to a Gaussian curve, you know its bad.
Nonetheless it would still have the issue of different killers having different powerlevels. Thats also a reason why I have high hopes for the dedicated servers and individual killer ranks. These 2 things will make it a lot easier for Behavior to gather actually useful data which they can then use to influence the balance.
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ok
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@NuclearBurrito said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/529502#Comment_529502
@PwnyFish please explain why. Just saying you don't like it isn't useful information
The scratch mark changes make no sense. They are the main tool of killers to find survivors. Without them it will be impossible to find any survivor.
Now you say there should still be scratch marks on objects. This will do 1 of 2 things. Either the change will do exactly nothing compared to now. Or it will make the killer role unplayable cause without scratch marks, there is no game to be played.
The movement speed changes seem to be super random. Increasing the killers movementspeed from 115% to 120% is way to strong.
The thing I wouldnt mind is increasing survivors crawling speed. It might make the slugging game a bit more interesting.
I mean, all these speed changes are just extremly random and its unlikely that will do any good. So at the end of the day, some of these changes might work out, but they completly change the current balance of the game to a rather unpredictable outcome. This means changing all this, would only be steps backwards, cause we would have to reevaluate everything again and start balancing from that new point again, essentially just giving more work and changing nothing.
There you have my explanation why I disagree with everything..
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no.
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Oof.. this has been talked over a lot. And people dont seem to get it.
The ONLY way is to bring up the information from solo survivors to SWF. And as far as I can tell, its what the devs mentioned in trying. I dont know how they want to do it or how fast they will do it.
Creating a 2nd queue where killer can chose to go up against SWF or not, is essentially the same as removing it.
More bloodpoints against SWF doesnt fix anything
Making the perks work differently in depending on SWF or not is stupid, since you would have to know in advance if you are up against SWF to pick accordingly. which brings us back to my first point.
End of story.
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I disagree with everything
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@ThePaleKing_ said:
@Ember_Hunter I mentioned Nurse balancing in my survivor post. I honestly don't want her nerfed or changed majorly. Shes fine as she is. I just want more obvious counterplay to her. Remove her ability to see scratch marks and make give her a darker screen when she ends her blinks a lot like they did to legion.
Regressing generators by itself would either be too strong or to weak. I agree that it shouldnt be possible for survivors to just tap the gen to remove the regression. A solution I would see more fit, would be. Kicking a gen initially regresses it by 5% followed by the current regression. Survivors need to work on the gen for 1-1.5s before it stops regressing and they can make progress again.
The "gen rush" thing is mostly just an issue at the start(at least thats how it seems to me), where all 4 survivors can work on generators. If survivors would have to "unlock" gens first at the start, it would give enough time for the killer to get into a chase before every survivor could make 25% progress on a gen. This could, as an example, simply be done by spawning a few gears on the map, which need to be found and collected,then put into a gen to "unlock" them.
The corn makes it harder to see, yes. I am not sure, but these maps tend to have less loops and are more open. I heard that killers chase sound and whatnot will get adjusted. That will already help with that. The only issue I have is with killers like myers. Trying to stalk survivors seems to be really.. odd in the corn. (I believe myers needs some QoL changes anyway. He is in an okey spot, not good. Definitly below spirit and hag)
I dont think nurse would be playable if she wouldnt see any scratch marks during the whole game. Completly blacking out her screen during the fatique time would be enough of a start alongside with reworking her addons. I agree that improving the counterplay of having to lose her fast would be the way to go, meaning, not reducing her strengths, but increasing her weakness.
Billy is not too strong either. The only argument could be made about his charge time reduction addons. Then again, he is also in need of an addon rework.
Billy, Spirit and Hag seem to be at a spot where killers should be, with billy being in need of an addon rework.(honestly dont know much about the hag, but the general consesus is that she is at that tier and I can see why.)
Trapper being able to carry more traps and longer disarm time, would be helpful. An issue I have with the traps are also their hitbox, they should be more generous. You should be able to re-arm a trap that got disarmed or trapped someone without having to pick them up. Grabbing someone out of the trap should just re-arm it again. They should as well get rid of the random escape and make it a progress bar the same as the jigsaw-boxes with skillchecks and whatnot.
I havent played much pig, but when I played her, it felt like actually just uncrouching was more useful than using the dash attack.. so idk about that.
Even though I dont agree with most balance suggestion from, I like your post format and most other critique points.
Thats all from me.
Thanks
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Hmm, I am not sure if tunneling is the killers fault or the stupidity of your teammates. Maybe both.
1 thing that can improve that, is giving survivors more information about other survivors. Like status symbols if someones on a gen, on a totem or being chased. If someones hooked it might be good if they can see the aura, maybe with some limitations, I am not sure. But 1 thing is sure, the available information for solo survivors needs to be increased.
I dont agree about billy. The only thing in question would be the charge time reduction addons. Also, Billy's addons need a rework anyway. I agree that it would be great, if the (pink and purple) addons would change a killers playstyle. Some do that already.
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Mmh, The only issue I see is with the perks. They are only available in the Shrine of Secret or if you buy it, which kinda sucks and is getting close to a pay2win.
I mean, I bought some of the latest DLCs like Pig, Clown, Legion and Plague just because I wanted the perks. The killers are rather weak and disappointing.
A better way to get to the teachable perks would actually be really nice(a non random way or at least less random)
Even 2 shrines, 1 for killers and 1 for survivors would be better.
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@No_Cluie_Louis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/522178#Comment_522178
Yes but in the most recent Q and A stream they confirmed they how now decided officially to make the snares a power given by addons to replace pallet traps
As far as I can tell, the snares are basekit and you can switch to pallets with addons.
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Saboteur+Sabotage Mechanic change
Saboteur perk change: Unlocks the ability to sabotage hooks without a toolbox. You can see the aura of hooks in a ~24m(dont know what a useful range would be) radius around you. Sabotaged hooks have a yellow aura. Normal hooks have a red aura.
Sabotaging mechanic change: Sabotaging a hook wont instantly break them when finished, instead they are "sabotaged" and can now be interacted with by any survivor to break the hook.
Sabotage progress gets lost when interrupted before finish. If a hook is fully sabotaged, it will give a notification to the killer(like it does now, when the hook drops).
I hope I could explain my idea so you guys can understand it. The basic idea behind it is to make 99%ing a hook the standard way.
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But how does it actually work? Do you constantly hear her if she is close to you. Or do you only hear her activate her spirit walk?
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/352986#Comment_352986
Mainly, survivors were upset that killers were playing for kills, and killers were bored of having to tunnel/camp every trial.
Really? Survivors were upset that killers were playing for kills? That doesnt make much sense.
I can see the issue with the tunneling, since its pretty effective for getting kills. Its honestly a tricky game for making a fair a proper ranking system.
But what I think is wrong is, that both sides can "win" a match and rank up(at least before the PTB change, dont know how it is there)
They should have a clear Win or Loss condition (or also a draw)
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@MysticalMagic92 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/352754#Comment_352754
That was the old ranking system for killers you know. It failed miserably.
really? Cant remember that. What was the reason it didnt work?
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Billy and the Spirit are in my opinion the balance bar where all other killers should be. Nurse should be nerfed a little bit, so she isnt that dominant on higher skill levels.
Nerfed in the sense something like, instead of having a bit worse vision during the fatique, take away all her vision during the fatique time. That would punish her harder for bad blinks.
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@Nea_Death_Experience said:
Hey man I love Myres but if you did this buf he would have alot of control on his Insta downs and it would suck to play a Myers who can't make a stalking Mistake. It is often the case that while stalking you will go too far and pop tier 3 early. This lets the survivors have more time to escape which is kinda of needed. With his insta kill addons this new mechanic would BREAK them beyond reasonable control. Unless this QoL had a balance like Loosing stalking charge over time or somthing. There is alot of balancing that would go with a change like this. Maybe expand your idea a bit more?
I dont see how it would break him with his addons. It wouldnt really change anything there, since you need to be on top of a survivor to kill him, so you will have line of sight anyway.
It would give him more control, thats exaclty the point. I dont think Myers is in a bad spot, but he is a killer that needs a small push upwards to be able to compete with good survivors.
The change would help a lot in higher ranks, while in lower ranks it wouldnt buff him too much.
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@Wolf74 said:
Myers close to Billy???
I do think so, yes.
I consider Billy A-Tier and Myers B-Tier. Why? What do you think?
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Spirit is fine..
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Ofcourse they can balance it towards SWF, #########?
You dont need an ingame voicechat, you can already do that and invite the people to a discord server in the lobby.You simply have to give survivors more information about whats happening in the game via the HUD. Its not that difficult to do...
Stuff like, is someone being chased. Is someone working on a Gen. Is someone working on a totem. Even if a survivor is in the terror radius of the killer could be shown via the HUD.
Getting a totem counter. Getting an ingame match timer. These are all things, that would actually make it soooo much easier for the devs to balance the game, since it would eliminate
(Obviously these things would buff survivors and killers would need to be buffed accordingly)But its unlikely that BEhaviour will do that. With the simple argument that it should stay "scary"...
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It seems like theres no edit button for the opening post(or i cant find it) so ill just make another post.
I wasnt sure if I should actually post this, since most ideas get downvoted and hated anyway, but i guess theres not much to lose by posting this.