Panduh
Panduh
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- Panduh
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Edit**
Oh wow I definitely just did a game and self care botany is 24s so the comment below is correct which is kinda amusing because that means they heavily nerfed Self-Care across the board, plus nerfed med-kit efficiency builds.
So the only thing benefitting from new botany is altruistic healing speed and med-kit self-heal speed(but med-kit efficiency is getting ditched)
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The Vigil idea is weird. Mori's are offerings and typically perks don't really affect offerings (even if Ebony is gg).
Vigil's problem is it doesn't interact with some of the strongest status effects in the game like the timed Broken and Exposed statused (MYC, H:HG, IM). It also has no interaction whatsoever with perks like Sloppy Butcher, and Hex: Third Seal, because they're infinite. (I'm aware TS isn't that strong, it's just an example. Changing TS by taking it away from Hex perks and making it a timed status on hit would make it both more consistently usable and also more interact-able IMO.)
Another major issue is it hardly is worth the perk slot for the things it does tangibly affect such as exhaustion(8 measly seconds for a whole slot) or status effect add-ons for killers. No, I will not suggest recovery while running lol. I will suggest Vigil's strength to be upped- and for Huntress, and Clown's EXH add-ons to be nerfed/changed because they're from a different time period in the game.
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Vigil's problem isn't that- "oh man I don't get faster double exhaustion anymore". The problem with Vigil is it's interaction is so niche and the few things is does tangibly effect are effected so little that it isn't worth the slot.
It: doesn't effect two of the biggest timed debuffs, Exposed and Broken. (IE Deliverance, Broken add-ons, Make Your Choice, Hex: Haunted Grounds. NOT Evil Within, Hex: NOED)
Not to mention one of the most popular status effects today is mangled via Sloppy Butcher. Sloppy Butcher isn't timed, it's forever until healed. Vigil cannot interact with this perk.
For the few effects that Vigil does touch, it doesn't really effect it enough to make a difference because the number difference is either too small for a perk slot, or the timed status effect in question was just so long the 20% didn't make much of a difference overall.
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@Slayer said:
If anything chests shouldnt spawn at all. Or let killers to get some addons during a game too
The survivors only get items from chests, would you like to go fetch your killer power from chests? Add-ons require a perk that works on RNG and most of which aren't nearly as impactful as killer add-ons. This post reeks of bias.
Point being is some of you guys sure like to boast about the game being asymmetrical when it suits your own biases but then come out and say things like these when it doesn't suit them.
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Lower CD, or 2 more seconds of active time would be great. There really is not enough well designed maps for mind games to encourage the perk to be significant with 3s. With 3s of use and 40s CD it also relies on combos and cannot stand on it's own IMO.
Also for Quality of Life just as Make Your Choice and Blood Warden got, I'd like to know via HUD how long it's active for when using it.
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@anarchy753 said:
I agree with you wholeheartedly on Vigil, it's a perk JUST to shorten bebuffs and it basically just doesn't affect anything you want it to.
As you said perfectly, set-duration exposed should be reduced by it.
The extreme amount of mangled/hindered effects that are endless should be made to be ~120 seconds max, refreshed on hit, reduced by Vigil. This either penalises healing or forces playing injured for a long time before healing. This is the most common debuff and Vigil has no effect at all.
Broken from Deliverance and add ons should also be reduced for consistency.
I don't agree with changing Third Seal, it's the same as exposed on DH and NOED, it's permanent with a different method of dealing with it. It's weak enough without being on a timer, blindness add ons prove that through their complete lack of use.
-To be clear- I was talking about removing it from Hex category and possibly having it as a debuff perk similar to Sloppy, just timed, not adding a timer on top of it being a Hex. I want to see it used more.
Understood about your point with TS. I like playing against the perk as a solo-duo player. So I'd love seeing it more and being able to interact with it, but it's a weird perk to balance. Especially considering 3-4man SWF.(Edit: weird to say but I dislike it being a hex perk because it's prone to being randomly cleansed so early and I want to play in chaos more haha)
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@List_of_concerns said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/494241#Comment_494241
To be clear, are you for or against buffing Vigil to include the Exposed Status Effect timers?
Thanks for the reply.
Buff Vigil LOL that perk is so bad
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*Longingly sighs at the thought of Vigil including exposed timers like MYC, H:HG, IM*
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@LastShoe said:
@SlinkyJinky How funny... right now its a situational perk that finds no use if you are facing the meta killers... and here you are, complaining that they are going to rework and make it a super situational perk...
I hope they will rework this perk somehow to make it viable against m2 killers without breaking it even more for m1 killers.
If they stick with the idea of the endurance being around while healthy too then it'll finally be worth taking for Billy/Endgame Leather camps. I just hope they make the protection scores actually work so earning tokens is real.
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@Madjura said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/480049#Comment_480049
>3. [...] Currently we need to make sure that anything affected by enduring lasts long enough that it doesn't render enduring completely useless.
Calm Spirit renders Spies From The Shadows useless
Iron WIll renders Stridor mostly useless
Aftercare, Empathy, playing SWF renders Knock Out useless
Why is Enduring being prioritized over those perks? Even if the stun times were shorter and Enduring was worse as a result of that then Enduring would still work on pallets which are in every game.
DS is a fail-able one-time use perk lol- relax. Enduring still works on pallets smarty! Better with the change, even. Also Stridor actually overrides Iron Will, so it's the other way around. So cut the circle jerk drama session, it's boring. Besides, rationally DS' stun will likely go down to 3 or 4s with this. So the only thing that will be very different is people getting Head On stuns, considering that stun is only 3s and very situational, I'd say it needs it.
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I'm definitely of the opinion they need to have a certain radius that they spawn away from generators specifically. Risky spots for risky perks are okay just not near generators, that always seemed silly that I could just hop right back on a gen next to me if I broke a totem while a killer was in chase.
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@Orion said:
Hangman's Trick helps with sabotage and makes it so you never have to worry about hook positioning ever again.
Hook positioning hasn't been much of a threat since the hook placement changes, funny enough. I can kill 4 people in the same area in the majority of the maps in the game. HT is just to sneeze on people's already niche team build tbh.
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Maybe we can finally make maps spooky and dark again if we just nerf Claudette's dark outfits >:^)
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@Dwight_Confusion said:
Survivors want you to play by their rules. Their own made up gentleman's rules.
It's made up and BS.
I play however I want. I play to win. They've already nerfed the crap out of slugging, made hook rescues even quicker and you always have SWF that can hurt a killer.
If I'm able to hunt down the unhooked person easily... yeah I do it.
Is it tunnelling? Not really. DS counters this. If I camp, I'm not going to pip more than likely.
Survivors play the victim card and act like things are completely in the killer's favor. More made up BS. If a killer is camping hardcore, 2 or 3 of you clowns don't need to be off gens and around the hook.
Maybe 1 person, 2 others on gens. If done right... 2 or 3 gens can be traded for a survivor's death on a camping killer.
He'll safety pip or depipped, but 1 person's fun was ruined. Okay? So what? It happens to me too, but I move on.
It happens on both sides. Easier to happen on survivor because of the odds, of course. I can't tell you how many times a killer has rage quite simply for my team doing well, whether that be losing the killer, doing gens correctly to not get 3gen'd, cleansing to deny noed, or when they get greedy and go for the BT rather than the rescuer. All situations that have seen plenty of quitters, and we don't get big bonuses for a killer cancelling the match. I say all this and I'm sure judging by the mentality in your post you're thinking "t0xic suhviv wif frens four man" but I only play solo or duo.
Do yourself a favor and ditch the "main" mentality. It plagues the community from discussing things that could help make the game more fun for both sides.
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Wake Up did not get buffed, I'd appreciate if you'd edit that. Pharmacy is actually the only good Quentin perk at the moment.
Vigil is not potent enough to have an affect on the FEW timed status affects such as Huntress and Clown add-ons, and ever since the exhaustion change, doesn't have a meaningful effect on your perk recovery either.
40->32s exhaustion perk CD when you aren't running, 30-> 24s off both of their lowest tier add-ons, 90s->72 on huntress' best one. It's only noticeable against the 90s add-on and similarly to the other lengthy de-buff add-ons, they're just so long it's not really worth it. To put it short, not all that helpful in these situations for a whole perk slot. 8 seconds less in a situation where you shouldn't be running or near danger isn't a noticable recovery for a whole perk.
Doesn't even include timed EXPOSED, and gets messed up by sloppy because sloppy is infinite until healed lol.
Don't get me started on Wake Up, exit gates are so easily to find on just about anything but Lery's, and 15% for 3 seconds is pretty much your entire perk slot. Leader helps people open it faster than WU at 25%.
If you'd like to see this Wake Up idea that got a lot of approval among other things I have a document I made from a while back.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/16TLOmqJTWkRyRB7SWiJtzCKEq2-MVLL68qHTeUeWlMU/edit?ts=5cb86000
TLDR: I don't think Pharmacy is that bad, an add-on would be nice, but I really just think there needs to be more chests in the trial naturally just so you don't have a chance of just -not- using your perk.
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@Kagrenac said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/456383#Comment_456383
I just don't know what besides an increase to it's percentage. Maybe make it 15/20/25% less consumption?
The problem is that you also indirectly buff flashlights and keys
So indirectly buff flashlights and keys, then. Flashlights have been on the weaker side since they got changed dramatically + the pickup speed buff(I won't say those weren't needed changes). Especially since the difference in blind duration with a purple + odd bulb + intense halogen from a regular one is abysmal (~3s -> ~3.25)
Keys also don't often get used more than opening the hatch, either.
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The way it activates is very weird. The killer needs to be in the range on the survivor's screen if I'm not mistaken (sorta favor the shooter like OW?) which is confusing. I say this because some killers get hit very far, and some watch the thing miss directly in front of the locker, so that's my guess.
IMO the best way to improve it would be the survivor -always- exiting out like they're using HO- and create a hitbox based on that, and if the survivor hits the stun(it'd have several active frames, so the killer can briefly walk into it) they get the cool-down. Please also give a teensy bit of Iframes too, not a lot. Being able to trade a hit with it seems just so silly and detrimental. (already the worst exhaust imo)
Feels bad to use and feels very bad to watch survivors who use it whiff in my face and get hit for it while I go "aw you poor thing."
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I just want more base chest spawns, so I get a chance to use builds in case I decide to be responsible and do a ruin gen while everyone runs around like chicken, stealing all the chests even while having an item of their own lol
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Fifty to sixty bloodwebs per character instead of 170-190? I'm swooning at the thought.
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Idea looks familiar ;)
It's probably the best direction we have to go, however.
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@Frozenscum said:
Changing run direction is huge part of Hag's gameplay, removing this part will take out a lot of mindgame and jukes on Hag's part. So, no, lets keep it same is now.
That's fair. I suppose I just want the game to feel less abysmal when I finally find a Hag and I'm not wearing Urban Evasion, since I usually like running more interesting stuff. Yanno? I think it'd really help incentivize more jukes/mindgames if survivors could move a tad faster in both walking and crouch walking(other speeds the same of course). Or if flashlights had longer uptime since they're really not as crazy as they were long ago.
However I know those are some big asks and dreams so I daydream on.
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@xllxENIGMAxllx said:
No mither should stay no mither there is many things they could do.
- No scratch mark.
- increase BP in all categories.
- put resiliance-like on the perk himself.
- same for this is not happening.
- Be immune to all aura-reading perks.
- have faster recovery.
- wiggle faster
But we SHOULDN'T start HEALTHY.
Okay okay, I really like the aura reading immunity. Kinda goes with that same design of no blood and less noise making NM harder to find. I'm curious what others might think.
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@Captain_Spaulding said:
She's working completely as intended. No need to nerf. Camera being pulled to trap is meant to be there. If something like that jumped out at you wouldn't you be terrified? She's one of the few that still make me jump when playing against.
"Working as intended" is kind of a lazy argument that promotes stagnant conversation. Old Decisive and Borrowed Time were working as intended, but they sure didn't feel good to play against.
Sure, it makes me jump too and all- and pulling the camera would be okay if it didn't also pull me to run toward the trap. Those are my controls, thanks. I'm not talking catastrophic nerfs, and even if this did largely hurt the Hag, then we could certainly talk about other things to help her out.
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@TheGameZpro3 said:
@Panduh said:
Wouldn't this just create more reason to not heal in this meta? Several killers force you to not heal + the negating MoM's downside by waiting for Adrenaline's heal rather than healing to expose yourself, etc.
What's wrong with not having a huge tell-tale to the killer that you can recover from dying anyway? Sure most killers instantly pick you up, but the Broken status gives them all the more reason not to try anything interesting.
Also your idea stacked with Vigil would make chases worse than the meta where we still could slightly recover from exhaustion in chase. You'd be recovering 15% faster than other people. Sure, while being one-hit down, but I don't think that excuses bringing back something we said we didn't want previously.
Ok, I understand that. and it's fair.
ok, what about this?
You are affected by the Broken status effect for the duration of the trial.
Your thick blood coagulates practically instantly
*You don't leave pools of blood.
*Grunts of pain cause by injuries are reduced by 0%/25%/50%
*Grants the ability to fully recover from the dying state.
*You can recover exhaustion while running, but at 35%/30%/25% less speed than not running. Vigil does not stack with this. You can't recover the last 10/8/6 seconds while running.
*When recovering from the dying state, you recover 5%/3%/1% slower.
I don't think the last thing (the recovering) will stop this from being OP, but it's better safe than sorry.
Anyway, @Panduh , is this any better?
I think making another perk specifically not work with another is a bit strange. The last bit about dying recovery would be unnecessary. I'm of the opinion recovering a strong exhaustion perk while running isn't something the team wants(it's alright if you aren't). If you were to say better recovery outside of running, maybe it would be worth having a look at. Or maybe look elsewhere. I just think the whole start the trial healthy and not showing Broken so the killer doesn't negate one of the biggest strengths of the perk thing would be the most simple solution.
I do like ambitious ideas and discussion however, so don't feel discouraged to think up new stuff.
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Update!
Added thoughts on Ashley J. Williams' perks. New suggestion for Solidarity, updated several texts, some thoughts about Luck(see: Up The Ante comment) Lots of feedback! Get in here and tell me what you think!
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I just wish the Phantasm Trap wouldn't pull my controls toward it lol
That and the fact that it tracks the survivor who trigger it with rotation while it's active leaves some counter-play to be desired. And no- "equip urban immersion or a flashlight every match just in case" is not counter-play.
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Wouldn't this just create more reason to not heal in this meta? Several killers force you to not heal + the negating MoM's downside by waiting for Adrenaline's heal rather than healing to expose yourself, etc.
What's wrong with not having a huge tell-tale to the killer that you can recover from dying anyway? Sure most killers instantly pick you up, but the Broken status gives them all the more reason not to try anything interesting.
Also your idea stacked with Vigil would make chases worse than the meta where we still could slightly recover from exhaustion in chase. You'd be recovering 15% faster than other people. Sure, while being one-hit down, but I don't think that excuses bringing back something we said we didn't want previously.
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A totem counter or pre-hit exposed notification would make the perk feel light-years better to play against.
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I would agree if it didn't inadvertently screw with Kindred! It'd make the perk usuable only twice instead of giving it to your teammates one last time on death hook. I think if they were still offerings while requiring 2 hooks would still be cool, we all like the animations n all- but getting a game cut short or pretty much being guarunteed a hatch game/lost match for an offering kinda blows! I know myself the "ultra rares" aren't as ultra rare as they sound.
Killing a survivor who needs to be transported to a death hook still saves some time depending on distance, and a hook! Or, maybe helps against someone who was saving an endgame DS. I do think Mori's are an issue atm and I'd love more discussion on them without being "remove them" or "just don't get downed lol"(or just don't play the game, essentially)
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@MhhBurgers said:
autodidact would've become the meta with the thanatophobiabuff but the devs don't want to change the survivor meta.
I love a good interesting healing perk, but they seem to keep falling short, as with AD and Solidarity.
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@Kind_Lemon said:
Can you make this a google doc so that individuals can comment directly on the document?
Apologies, was busy, but absolutely.
Good day! Lately I’ve had a lot on my mind in terms of the balance of Dead By Daylight and the potential we can bring for gameplay diversity with a little bit of structured communication with the developers and each other! So, to start my discussion I’m writing my opinion of each, and EVERY perk,...Hopefully this will make it more accessible and easier to directly discuss on, any other suggestions welcome. Added a more simple Autodidact suggestion as well.
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@aarongai said:
I shall bump once in hopes the devs see this idea since I like it that much.
It's certainly more exciting than the current version of Wake Up.
I like it! I'd love to see similar discussion from people like you, if you'd like to take a look at my document on this thread too!
IMO just over half the survivor perks in the game are unappealing/unattractive. Let's all get some discussion going on how to shake up meta/viability and perk usage by talking about the underpowered and niche ones.
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@Saint_Ukraine said:
Well, that took a while to read. I like your idea for Wake Up; suggesting that it reveals your aura to other survivors when interacting with things like generators and chests on top of gates.
I wish that Lightweight quieted your footsteps on top of the scratch marks disappearing faster.
I originally was excited about Autodidact, because I typically like to heal, and healing fast asf would be amazing. But like you said, it's typically not preferable over BK or WMI. Usually, on each heal you'll get 2 skill checks, maybe 3 if you're lucky. So, you have to heal 2 different survivors before Autodidact actually starts doing what it's meant to do.
I agree that Dance With Me should have the scratch marks disappear for a longer period of time.
Detective's Hunch should also have it's time increased. I feel like I barely get to look at anything while I'm running away from the generator before it all disappears.
Boil Over should definitely should get a buff of some sort. Someone was actually able to do some good with it on me the other day, but that was the first I've ever seen it work in general.
Left Behind and Sole Survivor are just trash perks. Yeah, they do what they're intended to do, but requiring people to die, (exactly what I want my fellow survivors NOT to do) makes them such undesirable perks.
I agree with the No Mither thing. Yeah, I have infinite recovery, but the killer knows that too, so why would they leave me on the floor? It's worked for me once, and that was when I was a beginner.
I feel like Slippery Meat actually reduces my chances to kobe. It doesn't, but it just seems like a perk that allows you to fail more. Maybe if it gave you luck as well? But then I suppose that would remove the purpose of Up the Ante..
I strongly agree with your thoughts on Technician. Yeah, sometimes it'll save you from that generator explosion, but the reduced repair noise is so pointless. Regardless of whether I hear repairing or not, I always check a generator that's making noise.
I've discussed We're Gonna Live Forever with others a few times, and most people agree that you should be able to get tokens for healing other survivors for the equivalence of 1 health state, or at least something along those lines.
Last thing I have to say, really, is that I think Lithe should have a passive ability like Balanced Landing. It oughta have a faster vaulting speed. It is a vaulting based perk after all..
Ah thank you! Fantastic feedback! I had actually thought similarly of Lithe, I just thought it would be too controversial to add. Maybe something small for the passive vault speed boost. I'm glad you liked a handful of ideas, and hope more people will agree :)
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@Saint_Ukraine said:
At the moment, the only good idea I can think of is a perk that allows survivors to pick up pallets for reuse. That, or a perk that allows pallets to be repaired, but I prefer the first one.
Thanks for the comment! I was hoping for some discussion on ideas in the document, as we need more variety and use in the perks we have currently.
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@Warlock_2020 said:
On killer side I'd like:
A perk to assist with slowing gens down other than Ruin. Ruin is over used
A perk to get a short burst of speed, similar to sprint burst, but only able to be used once or twice a match. This could really help with those long pallet loops (which you really should not follow - 30 seconds, pressure a gen).
A perk that protects hex totems for a short period, or maybe for x seconds after each hook, totems are immune to destruction.
On survivor:
I'd like to see more perks that give bonus bp, or maybe actions that do it so the bp perks are not "meta". The grind is real, and I find myself running WGLF and Prove Thyself in almost all matches, just for the bp. Would be nice to see that shaken up some.
A perk that lets the survivor phase through a solid object one time in a match. I know, sounds horrid, but it would only be useable once, and could end up harming the survivor more than helping them.
A perk that allows a survivor to rebuild a pallet that was destroyed. Seriously, take x seconds to assemble the pieces, but it breaks after hitting the killer, or in one hit (killer can break it 50% faster). Again, one time use.
I appreciate the added discussion! I was hoping this could be about the current perks and not ideas for new ones! We need more variety and viability in the perks we already have IMO.
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"Incorrect, the hooks don't spawn that close, idiot survivor main- us victimized intelligent killer mains would know that."
is shown photo evidence -vanishes-
"Toxic no brain survivor main, you are a fool, the killer 100% used offerings to add more hooks. If you weren't so feeble minded, you would use your own offerings that reduce it."
shown same match video evidence there was no offering -vanishes-Why can't we just petition to go figure out how maps get sparse hook spawns and how maps get abundant hook spawns and make them feel more balanced lmao.
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@Runiver said:
I've never seen it to happen even ONCE in 2 years.It only started coming up for me in this patch hence why I brought up the mandatory spin during the drop animation, I think the weird activation regions might have introduced a new bug. So there's a lot more delay from the survivor hitting the action and it ending. That or the infamous vacuum prevented us from seeing it before- good riddance lol. If you want a clip I can go look for it tonight, I think I have one or two saved. If not, my bad.
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@Runiver said:
@Panduh
About pallets : I think you kinda misunderstood what I meant. The slight "delay" due to the spin is mostly about people standing at pallets and not moving. Right ? So these people are usually trying to mindgame or bait for stun, trying to pull out by reflexes/prediction. Prediction is just fine, as it's a mindgame. However, being able to just react by reflexes and still not get wounded out of the process is just unfair, since the killer has to mindgame about it, while the survivor doesn't. That's just all I say. If you have time to stand at the pallet, you should be able to predict and not be able to fully react only, as mindgames should be part of the game, rather than being a pure survivor sided feature.
Most of weird hits, in these occasions, are due to latency. It's not due to mecanics. The fact is, it may fix some of the issues due to latency, but it will also make the game harder for people with proper ping for underserved reasons, especially when Dedicated servers could be a thing.About the invulnerability : Not sure where you noticed a "complaint", I just stated I'm not sure that buff is necessary. It's not like you should unhook in a killer's face anyway. That's exactly why they're saying they want to punish unsafe unhooks. So it's just a basic contradiction.
And yes, everyone asked for more LOS breaker and less loops for ages, including the supposed "circle jerks of killers". We just ask for more stealth and mindgames when it comes to juking and pallets, so juking isn't just SB to the nearby strong vaulting spot and drop a pallet once in a while to reset BL.
As stated several times, killers ASKED FOR THE MAPS TO GET REWORKED FOR AGES NOW. Especially to have more vision blockers so people could hide/would have to GUESS rather than just being able to see where the killer is at.Additionally, don't act like bugs are getting fixed for us. They just do the bare minimum.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjCOpo2Tqhs
We could talk about this one if you want, that is, imo, way more grevious than a few millisecond delay on a stun.And about your pallet stuns, I'll just drop this here, in case you wouldn't think pallets were already strong in the current state :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQbwmjvRfd8The point being that there are moments where bad or just toxic survivors do it anyway, and when the hookee gets punished for it, it's very unfair and feels bad, especially considering the killer made the effort to not hit the farming rescuer when the rescuer would either get pulled off or not receive the speed burst due to being rooted in the unhook animation.
My point about map discussion is I never see discussion about adding longer, more, or new LOS breakers, just the requests to make looping and pallets appear less, which is reasonable- but why stop there, instead of making maps and game play with more interesting with mind games and -actual- jukes, which we seem to be on the same page about. Maybe not never I suppose, but far less common. I did visit the steam forums often too.
Considering I have asked every time about the teleporting back and forward, and every time has been answered back with "it happened on my screen too" it's more than just latency, even if latency is partially at fault. Donno what the video has to do with "my pallet stuns" considering I'm speaking of a bug, being hit through them while getting a stun. Kinda off topic if you ask me. I'm not opposed to advocating for no stun collision on the side survivors threw it down from, however. You act is if I enjoy bugs that effect killers. Lets get together, spam the Q&A videos, Bug reports, and emails about it! It's good that you have a video for it.