AGlassOfOJ
AGlassOfOJ
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- AGlassOfOJ
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It's funny, tons of FNaF DBD concept art of Springtrap would depict him holding a fire axe, despite him never using or even holding one in any of the games, books, or even the movie. People likely associate him with it because of the incredibly popular "Die in a Fire" FNaF song, where he uses it to destroy the animatronics. People would always correct the artists of the concept art, telling them that it's inaccurate for him to use a fire axe, and now they can't say anything about it being inaccurate.
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I get that combining Nemesis and Wesker's cure makes the game a lot simpler but this is seriously ridiculous. I love Nemesis, he's been my main for years now and learning the ins and outs of his kit has been extremely fun, but in 2v8 mode I find myself using my fists exclusively without even realizing it because my brain just knows using my whip is a terrible idea. Once you're in tier 2 using your tentacle will hurt you far more than it helps you. Knowing that the infection will be cured immediately after an unhook, there are extremely few scenarios in which using a tentacle mid chase is worth it. I think they either need to make the cure much more hard to come by (3 or 4 uses total at most, or even no cures at all) or change how his tentacle/infection works to allow him to actually deal damage with his tentacle somewhat consistently.
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@PortaI_2 said:
Nothing else says pay to win like having a power to catch up to a survivor 2 seconds later after hitting them.
With slow down / time wasters that constantly make them run around unlocking chests.
With extremely large grab hit boxes that makes missing survivors actually hard to do with the attack.
I played him about 3 times and decimated survivors, then never picked him up again it was no challenge what so ever.
And sometimes you throw them into a wall and you are still able to move so you can down them 2 seconds later if they are in a bad spot too!
Hope BHVR enjoys ruining the balance of the game just to rack in all those dollars.
I honestly don't even care that much about this game being "pay to win". Like yeah it sucks when you have to pay money for a better chance at winning, but when the game is $20 and most games these days are $60 I don't mind forking over a little extra.
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@Grigerbest said:
They need to make survivor matches be more fun, so people want to play that role.
IMHO: - The removal of pick ups and carry survivors to the hooks, also removed a HUGE chunk of skill expression and fun elements from the survivor gameplay in 2v8 mode.
Flashlight saves, Pallet saves was basically removed, while these ones actually fun to do. (If you do it right)
I think they need to bring this basic gameplay mechanic back and adapt it for 2v8, it will surely bump the interest of playing survivor in 2v8.
This is definitely true, but to me it's less that survivor is boring in 2v8 and more that killer is just WAY more fun. Like, survivor is very fun in 2v8, it's a chaotic mess and I love it for that, but boiling it down it's more or less the same game, just messier.
Killer on the other hand is a brand new and extremely engaging and fun experience for the simple fact that you finally get a teammate, and can finally play with your friends. This, understandably would clog up queue times from killer mains who want to play with their friends, returning killer players who felt killer was too stressful playing alone, newer killer players who felt it would be easier to learn with a friend, etc etc.
I think adding more incentive and fun gameplay mechanics to survivor will definitely make it more worth playing, but I feel like killer queue times are always gonna be pretty long because of how dynamic and unique the experience is and will always be compared to survivor.
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@SAWII said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3818322#Comment_3818322
More players sounds better in a vacuum, or for a symmetrical game. But DBD needs a 4:1 ratio, so it doesn’t do any good if tens of thousands of people come to the game but they all wanna play killer; queue times suffer game-wide. It’s a worse experience for almost everyone. That’s what they mean when they say it was unsuccessful.
Honestly I played 90% killer when 2v8 was active and I had a blast. Yeah the queue times sucked, sometimes up to 10-15 minutes long especially when the survivor bonus went away, but after 7 years of going it alone, finally being able to play killer with a friend was worth the wait.
If your main complaint about it is the long queue times, that's totally valid and should be their #1 priority to fix, but calling it "unsuccessful" is laughable when you consider the direct correlation between player numbers and revenue.
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@HolyDarky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3818143#Comment_3818143
True. This tome is longer due to holidays. It will end on January 28th (which means the Midchapter PTB might be on January 7th).
We can also assume that we will get a Bone Chill tome because we got one the last two years. If we really, really, really, lucky, we could also get a 2v8 tome but I kinda doubt it.
We got a 2v8 tome for the first iteration of 2v8 in July, so it's very likely we'll get another. I guess it is worth noting that we got a Chaos Shuffle tome for the first iteration of it but not the second, so it might be a little inconsistent, but that's probably just because of how vague the tome archives were.
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@crogers271 said:
Peanits mentioned about this on the forums as well.
I think this is likely a money issue for the license holders, more than an artistic or brand integrity. They own the license, BHVR's license does not permit them to use the character beyond the 1v4 situation, thus they want more money to expand the rights of the license. I'm, somewhat, hopeful that BHVR negotiated things like 2v8 in as a default when they worked out the license with more recent killers.
I'm, somewhat, hopeful that BHVR negotiated things like 2v8 in as a default when they worked out the license with more recent killers.
Oh yeah, for sure. The Dark Lord is probably one of the first licensed killers we're gonna get in 2v8, and every licensed killer who came out a year or so ago also has a good chance, since they did that player satisfaction survey that had all those potential future gamemodes on it including 2v8 about a year and a half ago now.
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It's definitely gonna suck, but it is what it is. I can't imagine many licenses would care when DBD has already made them a bunch of money, and the ones that might are few and far between. I really don't think more than 2-3 killers' license holders would refuse this, if any do at all, and that's a number I can live with tbh.
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"by far the most unsuccessful mode they have made"
DBD players crack me up. 2v8 brought on truckloads of new players, nearly doubling the player count from 2 months prior, almost peaking at 100k concurrent players on steam, numbers we haven't seen since the game peaked at 105k steam players when the first Resident Evil chapter came out in June of 2021, over 3 years ago, not even mentioning the console players whose numbers would be reflective and magnified, but because you didn't like it that means it was "by far the most unsuccessful mode they have made"
lol
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3816891#Comment_3816891
There's no way you're proxy camping at 32+ meters.
Bro it's 24 which is extremely feasible on most maps, like I can only think of a handful it wouldn't work on
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I regret nothing
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I know beggars can't be choosers, the blighted skin is nice, but I mean come on. Even Wesker has more skins than Nemi.
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where's nurse
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She needs a massive simplification. I didn't know what her drones did when she was released. I didn't know what her drones did when she got reworked. I still don't know what her drones do after her second rework.
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Man, looking at all of these is really reminding me how abysmal most original chapters are lol. They were all either riddled with bugs, had a horrible map, insufferable killer, or meta-breaking perk.
All Things Wicked wasn't an incredibly exceptional chapter, the map is horribly killer-sided and the killer was somewhat disappointing at the time when a lot of people expected a cryptid-type monster and instead got Mr. Grenade Launcher, but it definitely wasn't genuinely unenjoyable like most of these chapters were.
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3816721#Comment_3816721
In that case, if you have OoO and they have Rancor, the correct move is to be in a locker when the last gen pops. Even before the updated HUD and without OoO I would hide around the time I knew the last gen would pop. With the updated HUD, you know precisely when the last gen is about to pop. There are other ways to counter the aura read if you really can't be in a locker, like popping the gen and running one direction then turning around and going in the opposite direction, that kind of thing.
I can only remember dying unintentionally to Rancor once, and that was because I tried to heal a teammate so they could make a save, the killer had Bloodwarden, and my solo queue teammates body blocked me instead of the killer. It was on me for not leaving immediately, though, I accept that. In general, there's almost always some way to counter Rancor; back when Mettle of Man was released, the counter was to be injured when the last gen popped. I know I pissed some killers off with that lol.
… Mettle of Man was so much fun, but my god it was broken as hell.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3816828#Comment_3816828
BBQ has a large number of counters. The survivor has to be more than 40 meters away from the hook, for one thing. BBQ encourages the killer to leave the hook and get involved in a chase, which is good for the person on the hook: if the one on the hook is unhooked before the killer has found a new survivor, it's nearly guaranteed the killer will return to the hook.
I almost never see BBQ since the BP bonus was removed, though. Personally, I removed it from every build the moment that happened.
40 meters is really not that far, and with distortion being much less popular, it also indirectly gives you info by telling you that the survivors you don't see are within 40 meters of you. I don't think it needs a huge nerf, but completely cutting out the time it takes to find the next survivor by giving you the info exactly when you need it that you are rewarded with by doing something you'd do anyways feels a little strong to me, especially on very mobile killers like Blight, Billy and Xeno.
Also, I understand it is definitely healthy for the game and discourages camping but that has never been a super strong argument to me because perks being a band-aid for the core game mechanic's problems have always been a bad thing. We're seeing a lot of that recently with more and more killers opting to slug because of the massive amounts of anti-tunneling perks and bounceback perks like We'll Make It and Resurgence making hooking sometimes hurt you more than it helps you.
I don't know what the solution to these problems are, but I sure as hell know it isn't a pay-only perk.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3816828#Comment_3816828
Can we please not suggest nerfs to one of the few perks that actively prevents camping and tunneling please?
BBQ, Floods of Rage, Devour, Make Your Choice and Friends Til the End are some of the healthiest perks in the game.
The only killer aura perks thst could do with nerfs are Weave Attunement and maybe Nowhere to Hide. Weave needs a range reduction or maybe sone kind of time limit, Nowhere to Hide just needs to be centered on the gen instead of the killer.
BBQ is definitely one of the more healthy perks to discourage camping, but I feel like it does a little too much for just hooking survivors, which you'd be doing anyways. Not a huge nerf, just change the distance around a little or have it guarantee you see the furthest survivor or something. Idk, maybe it doesn't need a nerf, but it can be insanely strong in the right killer's hands and pretty annoying as survivor.
Also there's no way you just called Devour healthy for the game just because it slightly suggests you shouldn't facecamp lol. You can still somewhat proxy with it decently well and as soon as survivors realize you have it, it completely butchers the pacing of the game as every survivor is thrown into a tizzy trying to find it.
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I think an overhaul to legendary skins would be cool. Like, just separate them from skins and call them legendary characters you can only buy if you have the respective survivor. They would share the same bloodweb and inventory, but it would open the door for letting legendary characters have cosmetics.
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@Brightened said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3816808#Comment_3816808
Okay you're not even thinking about how those aura reading perks stack up though lol.
Let's just type out a typical game.Everyone loads in.
Survivors immediately (should) run to a generator.
OOP KILLER HAS LETHAL-
Killer is on someone and downs them.
Killer has Pain Res and BBQ. (That's 3 perks)
Killer gets gen block progress and sees the next victim.
Rinse and repeat.
In an absolute best case scenario, sure. If you're playing against 4 lobotomy patients I could totally see this happening. In reality survivors actually have the ability to run away from the killer, and the killer also unfortunately can't clone himself 3 times so every other survivor will be typically doing something useful like doing gens or unhooking/healing while the survivor runs away. There's actually this neat technique called "looping" which counters the strategy of standing still and letting the killer instantly down them like you seem to think happens every game.
Survivors also get 4 powerups called "perks" that allow them to play around the killer and not all instantly die. I could recommend some beginner survivor guides if you'd like.
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Honestly distortion deserved the nerf, 100%, but now that it's done, some killer perks should get nerfed too. BBQ and Nowhere to Hide are stupidly strong and give huge aura reads for doing things you'd usually be doing anyways.
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@upsideinsanity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3816790#Comment_3816790
Personally I dont play killer because its too easy. It plays itself and I get bored after just a few matches. Survivor offers an actual challenge and this comment just confirms my belief that those who play killer only do because they can't handle survivor.
The reason I said that is because you clearly don't play enough killer. I mean, I said that just as a simple solution of if you don't like it don't play it, but I also said that because you did play more killer you'd start to get it. Yeah, killer is really easy for the first matches. Like, the first 50 or 100 matches. You can go on such a massive winstreak and never even break a sweat for months, but when you crack into that higher MMR, killer is anything but free.
I mean, if you wanna talk perks and speed boosts, let's talk perks and speed boosts. Do you like being able to hit survivors? I sure do. Unfortunately survivors don't like being hit, but Dead Hard and Off the Record does the trick quite nicely. Maybe you're trying to play nice and not go for someone off hook, instead opting to chase an injured survivor you found. Nope, some guy with over a minute of free endurance just popped in behind them and there's nothing you can do about it because you're apparently tunnelling. A few minutes later that same Off the Record user heals up and its time for round two, you get a good first hit but 20 seconds later he uses Dead Hard right under a pallet. What could you have done about that? Absolutely nothing, you either get stunned, respect the pallet and have it be dropped or give the survivor a free speed boost. After a grueling chase, you hook him, then hook someone else, but that same guy comes right back for another bodyblock that you can't do anything about, but this time you decide to just brute force the endurance and get him down once more, but nope, you got stabbed by DS despite the fact that you hooked someone else in between hooking him. So you go through yet another grueling chase as gens are being done left and right, and because this guy has had about 4 second chances, his team has had enough time to get every gen finished and his adrenaline pops, giving him health and a speedboost right out the exit gates.
Now imagine having to deal with this kind of survivor 4 times in the same game.
I haven't even brought up the catch 22 Unbreakable - DS, can't pick em up, can't leave em down. What about flashlights and pallet stuns? Survivors can just dive right under and there's nothing you can do about it when Background Player exists and someone can hide 4 miles away. Well, maybe they're up against a wall with no pallet nearby, surely there's no way they can get an angle with a flashlight. Don't need one! Use a flashbang, if the killer is close enough there is no way to look away from it.
I am barely scratching the surface, dude. What about survivor perks in the past? MfT? FtP+Buckle Up? Old Mettle of Man? Killer's all fun and games now, but if you spent as much time raising your MMR as killer as you did survivor you'd learn what it's like to have to put in 4x as much effort for none of the reward when survivors have 12 different ways of screwing you over just for playing the objective.
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I think we're getting way too many killer aura reveal perks at once.
I get that we have a lot of survivor aura reading perks, but the killer's aura is at least 10 times more important because not only can 1 out of 16 brought survivor perks in the game be used to communicate to the whole team the most critical information in a given match, but the aura reads are just generally more useful to the survivor than the killer.
When you're playing survivor, all you're thinking about is yourself when you see the killer. Is he coming to me? How far is he? Do I have time to run or hide? All of these extremely important questions are answered when you see the killer aura. You know exactly how much time you have to spare doing whatever it is you're doing, because the only thing that could stop you no longer has the element of surprise.
When you see a survivor's aura as killer it can give you vital information as to where you need to go, but because there are four survivors whose location you need, it might not even be worth going for them. There are still 3 other survivors who you need to know what they're doing, and sometimes it doesn't even matter. It's all great to know where a survivor is and go after them, but there's still 3 other survivors who can be working on objectives all the while.
For killer, it's just information, simple as that. It's something that can give you a slight edge and clue you in on the survivors' plan. For survivor, there is literally 1 single thing in the match stopping you from winning, and it's the killer. Knowing where he is can make you almost unkillable because you know exactly where not to be.
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if killer is so easy and survivor is so boring, why don't you just play killer?
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because he's groovy
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Reading this thread has been bewildering. Watching people form coherent sentences and have an actual human discussion on a DbD board is giving me whiplash compared to the constant coping, screaming and complaining from the insane individuals on DbD twitter. My brain can't comprehend it, this is a DbD fan, but he's talking like an actual human and making sense?
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The game should be slightly killer-sided. Slightly.
When I saw DbD's kill rates for each killer, I was kind of confused when they said they wanted the kill rate of each killer to be somewhere around 60%, when 50% made more sense to me, but I think I get it now.
Think about every "DbD killer" that crashed and burned, didn't last more than a month, or was perpetually doomed to have a smaller player base than DbD throughout it's lifespan. Evil Dead, Friday the 13th, VHS, etc., the one thing they all had in common was how survivor-sided they were. This made sense to the developers, the larger portion of their playerbase wants to play survivor, we should make survivor more fun and easier to win with, what they barely took into account is how frustrating this made killer. But who cares? There'll always be someone playing killer, right? No, there won't be. A lot of complaints from players about why these games were bad (at least in Evil Dead and VHS' case) were the abysmal queue times, as well as how horrible playing killer felt. They didn't want to buff killer or nerf survivor, how could they turn their back on the majority of the playerbase by taking away their means of defense? Well, because they had these means of defense at their disposal, playing killer was incredibly difficult and many killer players opted for a different game, and thus the games died out, or at least have a much smaller player base than they used to.
The exception is DbD itself. Look at some footage of old DbD, it was ridiculously survivor sided, the only reason it was balanced is because this asymmetrical horror genre was very new at the time and people didn't exactly know how to abuse survivors' capabilities, but they quickly learned. This is also why new asymmetrical horror games are burned to the ground by the survivor role when they come out, DbD veterans know exactly how to exploit the killer role in these new games. DbD had the massive benefit of being the first and having the least experienced playerbase, so they were able to slowly tweak survivor and killer into being more balanced at the same rate players learned how to use them well.
Killer isn't necessarily harder to win with, but definitely takes a lot more focus and effort on the part of the killer. If that effort and focus doesn't feel rewarded, players will not hesitate to turn their backs on an experience that pushes them to their limit only to get nothing out of it. This is sometimes what killer felt like in the early days of DbD, and it's how killer feels in other asymmetricals now. Killer NEEDS to be overpowered. He NEEDS to have a massive advantage over survivors, because when it's a 4v1, the 1 will always have more on his mind and more to do. If survivors have too many ways of fighting back, if their chances are just as good as the killer's, then half of the game is about putting in 4x as much work as the other half and getting an equal, or sometimes worse reward.
Killer needs to have the advantage, even if just by a little bit. A 60% kill rate makes much more sense than I thought it did.
TL;DR, Killer takes much more effort and that effort needs to be disproportionally rewarded more than survivor, many other horror asymmetricals died out because killer was too weak.
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@GeneralV said:
-Wesker is a terribly designed killer that should have never been added to the game, and if he is to stay then he needs more nerfs.
-The EGC is a terrible and unnecessary mechanic.
-Old DBD was better than modern DBD in every way.
-Camping at the end game shouldn't be normalized.
-Not a single iteration of Freddy was weak enough to be considered the weakest killer in the game.
-Fun should take priority over actual balance.
-DBD isn't a competitive game and it never will be.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3816569#Comment_3816569
I agree.
-Wesker in my opinion is probably one of the best balanced killers in the entire game. This is a surprising take because he's a universally unhated killer, fun to play as and engaging to play against. He can be one of the best killers in the game in the right hands, but even then it doesn't feel too bad losing against him because of how engaging his chase power is to play against, it almost always feels like a misplay on your part.
-EGC (I'm pretty sure this is end-game chat abbreviated) I actually like a lot. Yeah, there's usually toxic people chatting ######### and being mean, but more often than not I see people sending their GGs and talking about something surprising or funny that happened in the game. I even get kind of annoyed when something super weird happens that I want to talk about and when I get to the EGC everyone's a console player so I can't talk to them. Toxic people will always find a way to make something fun into something negative, and that should never be cause for removing or never introducing a mechanic.
-Well, it is. Killers want kills and it is infinitely easier to camp a survivor on a hook than search through literally the entire map to hopefully find a probably healthy survivor, only to hit them once and they either have enough distance to escape or have people come in for bodyblocks. Killers really have no other option if they want a kill, and you really can't blame them for not wanting to throw.
-I agree with this, though mostly just because of how subjective "weakest" is. I don't think he was ever the weakest, but he was definitely usually ONE OF the weakest.
-Of course, but that's the thing. Fun and balance are inherently intertwined. People play games for fun, and generally balanced games are more fun, so balancing a game usually leads to more fun.
-I think the 5v5 gamemode teased I think a year and a half ago now would actually make a competitive mode viable for DBD as it would be a symmetrical experience. I don't agree with the people who say DBD is "just a party game" I mean, what other party game gets frequent balance changes and public test builds? But if people like a game enough, they will build a competitive scene around it. There may be balance changes and ramifications to the main game because of it, but it's inevitable.
You probably aren't going to read any of this and I'm well aware I massively over-responded but I accidentally took 2 adderall instead of 1 and had some energy to burn off.
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Dead Hard is still one of, if not the best survivor perk in the game. It can outperform almost every anti-tunnel perk in the game, grants a huge burst of distance, pairs extremely well with Made for This, and if used correctly can basically revert MfT's nerf. It being less common also makes it much less predictable, and all of the mechanical problems that DH had before its nerf are still there after the nerf, you just don't have to deal with them basically every chase. It can still be used to take hits for teammates even when injured, it can still be used out of the blue to take even the most experienced killers by surprise, and it can still make some hits literally impossible near pallets because the killer has to play a waiting game that he has a very slim chance of winning.
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@GlamourousLeviathan said:
Artist is better than Blight and therefore the second best killer in the game.
definitely disagree with this one.
Artist is really good at tunneling and can put survivors in bad situations by getting someone out early, but Blight has far higher map control, is far less predictable, and generally has a higher skill ceiling. Still, after hug-teching was removed I would agree they are definitely comparable and I think Artist is better than people say she is because of how difficult it can be to learn and how long it takes to master her.
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@LordGlint said:
If by anti-tunnel system, you mean the basekit endurance... only reason I'd see of it causing more tunneling is if ppl bodyblock with it. If you won't let me hit your healthy teammate without hitting you first... I'm better off just chasing you now.
not to mention the endurance off hook wasn't exactly an anti-tunneling change, just an anti-farming change.
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Completely different developer. We don't know if BHVR has any involvement in DBD Mobile at all, it's just a mobile game studio doing what they want with the game and probably just running some stuff like prophunt by BHVR to make sure they're cool with it.
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@Unequalmitten86 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3621330#Comment_3621330
This is what I don't understand about the mentality of some killer mains. I get that some people are hard to beat but seriously you are not meant to win every match. The fact is you need 3 times the amount of survivors than people playing killer. Given that there has been a bonus on survivor since Chucky came out says that they are lacking people wanting to play as survivor. The slugging in general has gotten out of control along with tunneling and camping. With killers constantly slugging at this rate Unbreakable will become basekit. Without survivors you don't have a game, they make cosmetics mostly for survivors, killers don't spend money on stuff like survivors.
I would really like to see some form of unbreakable basekit. Maybe a second bar above your recovery meter would fill once the first one is full, and once they're both full you can pick yourself up. An amount of time like 45 seconds would be good because being on the ground for 45 seconds is inexcusably slugging and keeping them on the ground for that long isn't required in any kind of strategy (besides slugging)
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They really have no reason, I guess they just like it like that. It's definitely really annoying though, for one I should totally be allowed the option to disable it but for whatever reason they don't let you. It's also really dumb because it malfunctions all the time. "Kate" gets censored like 60% of the time, and words like "when I hooked you" are I guess seen as a threat and censored even when I'm just trying to discuss what happened during the game lol.
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I mean, that's just kinda how asymmetrical games work. Killer is always a lot harder to play, win or lose, this doesn't necessarily mean he'll always lean towards one side of always winning or always losing. Don't be too frustrated when the first or second gen pops early, that's always going to happen. Also, I don't know why you think of a gen popping as being an instant 20% progress when gens literally have a progress bar lol.
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It wasn't to me but some guy yelled at a Dwight in post game chat for running Prove Thyself after they won