2v8 is wacky
I don't love 2v8 and usually avoid it but I'm currently pretty unhappy with 1v4, so I decided to stay on 2v8 for the duration. I realize we just had an MMR reset, and I also realize the queue times mean matching is likely going to be loose, but this was just ridiculous. My killer outcomes looked like this:
Most of that 20% was hatch, some of which were intentional were mercy.
About half of these were duo matches, played with seven different people, all competent with at least 1k hours. Out of those, I recall only one where it felt like the matching was pretty even. That one was a tie. Otherwise, almost the only time the matches were ties or loses was if my random teammate was abysmally bad (or AKF). One of my last killer matches had a player with 30 hours who ran in straight lines without ever looking behind them. Even without the typical cheese of 1v4 this person ended with a 7k score. Someone like that being put in a lobby with two killers on comms with thousands of hours just shouldn't be possible.
Which brings me to my own survivor experience:
That ER is high for two reasons. The first is that survivors now start with items and I started almost all my matches with a key. The second is because, in 95% of my matches that were team loses, I was one of the last people standing. Not because I was good, but because everyone else was so terrible. Even the killers were often terrible. But if both the survivors and killers are bad it's almost always going to be killers who win. Every solo match had 1-4 people that barely participated. They opened chests, did invocations, cleansed totems and farmed the occasional unhook. They then went down in chase in 10s. Many were actively throwing, most likely abusing the priority queue to shorten their killer wait. The only consistent team wins I had were in 8mans, and even then a good duo could beat us here and there.
Pretty much all of my matches had lopsided leaderboards like these, with usually three or so survivors that appeared to do nothing but load in and die:
I don't know if this matchmaking can or will ever be fixed, but at the very least killer duos should be placed with partied up survivors, and 6k hour players shouldn't be going against 60 hour players.
Comments
You are correct. And 95% of 2v8 players stopped reading after the first sentence of your post.
They don't care. The devs don't either. 2v8 is branded as a casual mode and neither the balance nor the matchmaking will change substantially. Because it works. The mode is popular. With babys, but it's popular
Either change your mindset and start enjoying the unbalanced wackyness, mostly from the survivor side because of queue times, or don't play dbd for the duration of 2v8.
My mindset is fine, but the mode shouldn't be that you just lose if you load into solo survivor. It can have proper matchmaking.
No it can't. Because the mode is designed to be for casual players. Killers should have an advantage, because if matchmaking would actually work generators would need to take way more time
Hell, they even implemented a mechanic to make gens slower when more survivors are alive and faster when less survivors are alive. They want the outcome of a match to be as plain and acceptable for everyone as possible, because the majority of 2v8 players do not give a flying. They just load in, search 42 chests, do a random totem, do a ritual and maybe even run directly into the killer because they have spotify blasting on max (looking at you bill).
Why should you even try implementing matchmaking into that mess, when it would probably fck over queue times even more? BHVR will never even try that if i should guess.
You're probably right that loading into 2v8 as survivor is way more likely to net you a loss, especially when the devs essentially added a huge timewaster (salt) that also encouraged survivors to waste even more time opening dozens of chests.
However, I think part of this problem is also due to something you pointed out: people in killer queues that dgaf. And unfortunately there's not much to do about that. One thing I will say is maybe dull totems shouldn't spawn (although I am guilty of cleansing one or two, as survivors that don't have Escapist or a Medkit literally cannot get Survival points besides escaping) as it just encourages more wasted time. Perhaps chests should take a few seconds less to open. Maybe Invocations should take 30s instead of 40s.
I do wish there was some kind of very basic matchmaking in 2v8, but matchmaking doesn't even work in 1v4, and 2v8 killer queues are already astronomically high. I think the best you can do is, like I mentioned before, get rid of or tone down the time wasters so that casuals don't waste all their time, and perhaps BHVR could slightly increase the comeback mechanic to increase the number of close games.
I've said many times before that two competent Killers will roll over almost any 2V8 lobby (this is especially true if at least one Killer has a mobility power). That was my typical experience whenever I played 2V8 Killer, anyway. Anytime I would play Survivor in the evening when most of the KWFs were playing, it was an absolute bloodbath for the Survivor side. SBMM in 2V8 is impossible to implement when the queues are already hitting 50 minutes at times.
I don't think there is any way to seriously balance the mode, not should there be, because that was never the point in the first place. For the most part, both sides have ridiculously overpowered toys to play with. I still think they even could put Legion back in (with a few small changes) and the vast majority of 2V8 enjoyers wouldn't care one bit. They're all too busy enjoying the casual chaos to go whinging about this or that thing on social media like the more serious elements of the player base are prone to do. It's totally fine for there to be no balance and no match-making in this mode because I don't believe anybody who enjoys 2V8 cares about seeing either of these things "improved".
For what it's worth, my escape rate was a little lower than usual this time at around 35% (probably because I spent so many trials trying to get those invocation challenges done). But really not that different to previous 2V8s. For all the buffs the Survivor side has supposedly had, nothing they've done so far has made a blind bit of difference to my overall escape rate. For a mode with a reputation for being the most unbalanced, it has ironically given me my most balanced Killer/Survivor stats so far with a perfect 60/40 split. So from my point of view, it's a pretty good job so far despite (or maybe because of) all the wackiness.
You don't think maybe those long queue times for killer that keep growing and growing despite minimal changes to the role in what's supposed to be a survivor-sided event might indicate that not enough of those even casual survivors want to queue up to die? Even at my most new and casual I was never interested in being someone's punching bag.
Honestly they don't even have to be competent. I had several teammates that just randomly went AFK for a minute or two and we won. I had 100-500 hour abysmally bad teammates who mostly just whiffed and got bullied and we won. All you need is a few of those useless survivors that end up with scores below 10k and even two bad killers can probably win.
And I don't think it's as unbalanced as people think. If anything, it fixes many of 1v4s issues. Tunneling, slugging, and camping lack ease of use and value. Survivors can do strong stuff by coordinating classes in parties but killers are also buffed. Gen speeds are adjusted. There's aura read giving constant targets. It's more fast and wild than unbalanced. The stomp or be stomped nature of 1v4 usually feels more unbalanced for me. With better matchmaking I think 2v8 would prove to be better.
I also don't think the playerbase will just accept anything. They haven't put Ghoul in even though he'd probably be one of the easiest to implement because they know many people would stop playing survivor. There had to be a lot of complaints (and probably DCs) for Legion to be removed.
The throwing is a big problem and it's constant. I like the totems for keeping crows away when it becomes a rat-off, which is almost inevitable in this mode, but I agree the time wasters should be cut down. At the same time though, if they reduce the completion times for useless tasks, those people might do even more farming because it's faster. They could just max out points on chests at like 3 or something.
The issue with queue times is, that survivor feels incredibly ######### in 2v8. And that is a core issue of the mode that is not fixeable.
Any competent survivor team can easily win against killers of the same skill level, even if they KYF. The only thing holding back survivors from dominating every match is ######### matchmaking.
This 2v8 was really weird, aside the bugged out lobbies. In most other 2v8s I actually had close matches against survivors with matches often ending at 1-3 gens if we won, that was with my killer friend who understood this game. This 2v8 however, felt like everyone were headless chickens and a lot of matches were being won at around 4-6 gens with very few losses. We got so used to having to sweat to get the win before that we got pretty surprised this version had survivors performing so badly.
I don't think adding an MMR would help, because what would decide whether you're good for 2v8 or not when the mode is so different than 1v4? Time is not a good indicator of skill for a MMR either given there's plenty of examples of players with thousand of hours in the game still playing badly.
Yes, and the only thing keeping killers dominating every match is also the matchmaking. Bad matchmaking making killers win isn't somehow better than good matchmaking making survivors win.
They can just use your regular MMR. If you understand 1v4 you understahd 2v8. They've said before that MMR applies to events but I never knew if that included 2v8, but with how different this one felt and it happening after the reset I'm guessing there is some matching, even if it's loose.
And the primary issue with survivors in 1v4 is how useless some are. The new MMR system is supposed to account for things other than escapes and deaths, so it's perfect for 2v8.
I do agree, 2v8 is not fixeable. So lets stop having 2v8 shitfests every two months and actually embrace a better idea like 5v5...wait that wont happen ever.