Ghoul is way too coddled
Ghoul's first hit is way too easy to get, like it is genuinely impressive if you somehow manage to mess it up. At least with Legion there is some meaningful counterplay (ignoring Iri Button + Julie's Mix Tape, which is another story entirely) and they don't rocket across the entire map in 2 seconds.
Not only is the attack a ranged attack that happens right after you can cover 14m in a split second leap, but it also is the only hitscan ability in the game. Not only that, just to make it easier, there's also auto aim! But just in case that was too hard, you also get 5 seconds to hit it, in which time you are moving almost as fast as a survivor! There is genuinely more skill represented in Legion trying to mindgame pallets than Ghoul.
There are some crazy things you can do with Ghoul that can be very skillful, but the majority of his player's don't need to have those skills especially because his first hit is so incredibly free.
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With legion you could potentially get 4 injuries+1 down while ghoul ability give you 1 hit and then you immediately become m1 killer with minor zoning potential, hope that helps
I cant wait for shot gun ghoul to become a thing with the changes made to unrelenting. 60% basic attack cool down on a high mobility killer.
You say that, but getting a quad Frenzy chain is not very common, and at any point Legion's power could either run out or be ended by getting stunned. In addition, after the first hit, Legion becomes a pure M1 killer, his power only really being useful to occasionally bodyblock a pallet. Ghoul retains his insane map mobility and has the ability to catch up to you in no time when you inevitably have to find another resource to rotate too, and he is not nearly as slowed down when canceling his power.
The issue with crayon eater is, that his first hit is free. If they simply removed his ability to injure you with his power, make the power cancel upon mistrigger (like legion) and give him permanent empowered with a few buffs to his leap he could be a great m1 killer, that uses his mobility to beam onto survivors.
The problem is, that 90% of the community seen to be satisfied with the current horrible design, so i guess it's time to munch on some crayons.
Mmmmmn what flavour of crayon do you think ghoul enjoys the most?
Tbh my issue with ghoul isn't the free hit. It's irritating sure but if he was pure m1 he'd be just as bad as legion. Problem with ghoul is the cooldown after his leap is so short. Once you're injured all he needs to do is jump at you, cancel the second leap and unless you're right on top of a pallet or quick vault you're going to get downed. Even legions feral frenzy cooldown gives you a chance when it's used just for catchup, unless you're in a proper deadzone.
Thank your for asking, i am actually doing a study concerning exactly that topic!
Most ghouls seem to favor red crayon, because it "tastes like strawberry" or they "know the color".
A minority of ghouls favor blue, because it reminds them of power.
And a tiny split portion of ghouls favor a random other color, i consider them "ascended".
Fair, his ability to literally appear right on top of you can feel so cheap sometimes. I just think in general it is way too easy to get value out of his power for such a strong killer. I picked him up in 2 games and already felt like I was decent with his power, even though at first look it seems like he might be really difficult to play. Out of the other top killers, I had to put more effort into getting good with Blight, Billy, even Nurse and Dracula than him.
Like I said in the original post, there are some insane things people can do with Ghoul, using geometry and "leap logic" as opposed to bounce logic similar to Blight to appear on top of survivors or do a crazy pallet block, but 99/100 Ghouls never learn to do that because they don't need to. The amount of p100 Ghouls I've run into that are hardly any better at the killer than me (someone who has played like 5 games total of Ghoul) is uncountable.
This might be something to also think about. When they made maps smaller some time ago they didnt have as many high mobility killers like they do now. And now as a result of this change high mobility killers get around so quickly and back on top of you so quickly.
I'd rather map size changed depending on the killer. Id rather not flat out nerf killers if it can be helped.
I think it would actually be better (and also easier) if map sizes were much more consistent, as it would make killers way easier to balance. Henry for example is insanely oppressive on smaller maps but probably B tier on large maps. Certain killers benefit way more from certain map sizes, and if they were all somewhat consistent in size then it would be a lot easier to balance them.
I'll be honest I used to be a Ghoul hater but these days I am happy to see him with killers like Jason and Judgment in the game.
Yeah he is incredibly easy to pick up. Tbh now we're having this conversation makes me think i haven't actually seen a ghoul in a hot minute. Killer winding me up at the minute is jason. Pickrate is still super high and he's a nightmare to play against.
what's crazy is that his design is so frustrating that most of the hate gets pushed onto his hitscan auto-deep wounds but everything about him is obscenely obnoxious, he falls under most of the negative feedback categories from a survivor standpoint: Dashslop, Extreme Mobility, Free Hit, Annoying Audio, and a general design that empowers the most disliked strategy in the game, tunneling.
I think largely the Ghoul represents a problem in BHVRs design choices that seems to get worse which is not considering survivor enjoyment when facing against a killer, and that should be kind of a big focus… obviously how good a killer feels to play is the biggest thing but what good is that for the game when everyone hates dealing with them?
I mean Kaneki actually has nothing interesting or unique about him at all, he's got an overloaded kit, and is remarkably easy to play well and checks most of the boxes killers look for "Fast, chase pressure, easy to pick up, versatile in perk build options, etc" BUT he's soulless, he feels equally bland, there's actually nothing to him, he's just "anime guy" that laughs maniacally and jumps around… IDK why killers with genuine character and individuality seem to be in very short supply…
Yeah honestly the only killer I enjoy going up against out of the last 6 killer releases is Springtrap. I think between the killer designs and the patches that have been releasing in the past half a year, it really seems BHVR has been prioritizing the killer’s experience and the survivor experience is an afterthought.
I will say, Ghoul’s kit is actually pretty simple when you think about it, which is the one thing I can appreciate about it. However, there’s just so much that he can do that’s just plain frustrating or feels cheap. I’m about to finish up the data roundup from the poll I made a while ago (it took way longer than I thought it would and it made it hard to motivate myself to get it done) and Ghoul was the bottom most killer to play against.
I think Jason can be fun when he's played normally, but he's an especially obvious case of the reality that if something can be abused it will… Hex defense Jason is really unenjoyable… thematically I appreciate him though
heaven forbid that killers want to actually put survivors into the Injured state. I could say that survivors who use Finesse+Lithe are coddled too.
I don't even know how those are remotely the same. One is base kit and one is perks. One is pretty much a guaranteed free hit, while the other has the possibility of delaying a hit. Any killer can injure a survivor, Ghoul can just do it with no thought, effort, or skill.
perks are basically the survivor equivalent of a killer power. you as the killer use your basekit(and addons, perks) to metagame and counter the survivor habits and play styles. Nobody plays perkless.
Ghouls kit encourages easy first injuries at the cost of having to "work" for the 2nd hit, which was designed to counter excessive pre running enabled by the likes of Finesse who want to never be injured, period. This play style is very boring, uninteractive and gives everybody little BP. And its the most popular in my lobbies because I always see triple Finesse in my lobbies. people just want me to chase scratch marks vs healthy people all game. This is why Ghoul exists