Clown Main's Thoughts on 10.2.0 and 9.6.0 (Diminishing Returns on Haste)
Note: I consider this issue relevant, as the 10.2.0 perk changes were promised alongside the 9.6.0 diminishing return changes and the Clown is unable to use some of these perks.
In 9.6.0, Clown players lost access to the ability to use haste perks. Rapid Brutality, PWYF, Batteries Included, Machine Learning, Furtive Chase, etc. were no longer worth running with some being worse than individual addons. I made two lengthy posts at the time, and to broadly summarize what they said:
- Clown should be allowed to stack one haste perk with their power without being affected by diminishing returns. Stacking multiple perks was unhealthy, but the opportunity cost of using one perk to occasionally get a haste boost was fine.
- Clown's addon variety has suffered, as the only way to reasonably increase the haste number now is to run Cheap Gin Bottle or Sticky Soda Bottle. Those of us who liked to run other addons alongside perks like Rapid Brutality or PWYF to maintain a different playstyle while still accumulating higher haste could no longer do so.
- There was no realistic way to buff the Clown in compensation for these changes without lowering the skill ceiling, making him too oppressive, or ruining the rhythm of his gameplay.
- If Houndmaster and Singularity both received changes to the haste parts of their kit to instead make them basekit movement speed adjustments while in search or overclock, then it seems only reasonable that we should look at Clown, Trapper, Knight, and Skull Merchant receiving similar treatments (these killers all gain haste from their powers, as well as Jason who was not released at the time).
I don't see any of the 10.2.0 perk changes as being problematic for the Clown if he was still allowed to stack a singular haste or hinder perk. Clown suffers diminishing returns when using Game Afoot, Unbound, Machine Learning, Hex: Nothing But Misery, Knock Out, Ravenous, and Whispers. It is a shame that Clown can't use these shiny new perks to their fullest effect.
When we were first introduced to idea of dimishing returns, I asked myself why the developers would choose to not give proper care to the Clown or at least state that this power shift for his kit was intentional. It is entirely possible that the developers believe that Clown is a bottleneck for the design of haste perks in this game. Without designing with the Clown in mind, maybe we can have stronger haste perks with more noticeable effects. I do believe there is a portion of the community that believes this as well. The problem with this assumption is that a powerful haste perk that can be used by the Clown can also be used by other killers as well. Let's imagine that the developers thought that the new Unbound was unhealthy for the single haste-stacking Clown. I personally would disagree, given that I have a solid foundation of experience running 5% haste perks on the Clown, but I could definitely see an argument to be made. What makes it unhealthy for the Clown, but healthy for Blight, Billy, Kaneki, Dracula, Singularity, Spirit, Oni, and other oppressive high tier killers? Some of those killers, such as Billy and Kaneki, already use perks and addons that incentivize them to vault windows. I cannot conceive of a haste or hinder perk that is unhealthy on Clown but healthy on the rest of the killer roster.
I would like the developers to seriously consider giving exemptions to the diminishing returns on haste perks to allow the stacking of one haste perk to the Clown, the Skull Merchant, the Trapper, the Knight, and possibly the Slasher as well.
Comments
Clown was one of the main offenders of oppressive haste stacking and why diminishing returns was needed, and honestly, the buff Singularity got back then where the 3% haste was converted to a speed increase should not have happened at all, there's no good reason he's allowed to bypass it but other killers can't, none of them should be able to
It was very funny to see Clown moving at 140 % speed. Was meme, but now with buffed save the best for last I feel that Clown is in decent spot.
Theres actually afew cases of killer base speeds being boosted rather than applying haste. Animatronic for example constantly swaps between 110 and 115. You also have Myers doing similar speed swapping. Hag's waterlogged shoe similarly doesnt apply haste but rather changes the base speed. Point being… Singularity isnt a special exception and is in good company.
Clown/Spirit/Singularity/Freddy etc are all going to be broken this coming patch with all these m1 perk changes.
Clown does not need the ability to stack haste.
I agree on the Singularity and the multi-stacking Clown. My issue isn't with the Racecar Clown who stacks 4 haste perks. That is a "slop" way to play the killer and degrades his skill expression while being overly oppressive for survivors. I am glad Racecar Clown is gone. I was more concerned with running 1 haste perk alongside the power, which never felt overly oppressive to play as or against.
I do like STBFL before and after buff, but it has the obvious issue of requiring the building of stacks and careful play around the obsession which could change when eating a DS. Other perks like Zanshin and Coup are also nice, but Rapid Brutality specifically worked at the beginning of the match, gave a nice effect, and was reliable. It wasn't a stack system (STBFL, Coup) and it worked on every map (Zanshin is redundant on Midwich, RPD, and other maps with consistent pallet spawns). Of the Clown chase perks, I would argue that while Rapid had the lowest peak performance it was the most simple and consistent effect. Also, Clown players such as myself liked to run STBFL alongside a support perk (primarily PWYF) which is obviously not a playstyle anymore even with the introduction of new STBFL support in CelWit and Dark Arrogance.
I agree and disagree to an extent. Do the recent perk changes (ptb and STBFL buff) make m1 killer broken? You could say that and I would see your argument. But I don't think the straw that would break the camel's back would be Clown's singular perk haste stacking (please note that I'm referring to the stacking of only one perk, anything else should receive either dim returns or not be allowed). A x% basic attack cooldown is gross on Clown, but it is also just as if not more gross on those other killers you mentioned. He is not the bottleneck of design here. I would not say that running a perk to occasionally get +5% haste is more broken on Clown in these builds than Singu, Spirit, Freddy (who can also run that +5% haste perk with no haste dim returns).
To simplify:
Broken is a bit dramatic for 12% extra M1 recovery for sacrificing almost your entire perk slots, don't you think, you are gonna be fine
Oh no for sure, my statement is more to keep an eye on it mixed with mobility. The downside of STBFL is there was a counterplay to it, one of the old metas of the game was "Machinegun meta". M1 killers have the potential to be really strong, especially the ones I listed.
I also have to point you toward the dissolution and blood warden changes, Spirit being able to phase ontop of people and use these perks will just make people move over to her again. Blight etc have the downside of not being able to use it, but Spirit has always had that advantage over them all.
Singularity on the other hand has overclock mode and paired with m1 reduction he can just power through health states especially in lesser organised games.
Clown's strength is he is a disgusting tunneler, it's why pinky finger was nerfed back in the day and diminishing returns more recently
Basically, tunneling may become even easier with these perk changes, which might be being done because anti tunnel and slug is on the horizon for all we know, which if the case then fine, I'm okay with this.
Tbf, Blood Favor and Dissolution got nerfed, yeah M1 only so it doesn't matter for Spirit, but they also nerfed the duration and range for both
I agree that they have to keep an eye for it, if worst comes to worst, they could always change stbfl in a way where it doesn't work with other M1 recovery perks and that 40% is the max, so that it isn't too overwhelming
Exactly I'm not saying it as like omg its going to happen, just it might be something worth keeping an eye on.
I'm actually really happy we are giving perks more power like this, it's really needed.
Yeah same, haven't been that excited for something in DBD in a long time, I love it that the buffs also mainly help low tier killers, because M1 and not high tier ones even more