Hot Take on carrying survivors, basement and hooks.

IMO pick up, drop and carry speed all kind of suck right now, not to mention if a survivor plays smart and goes down under a pallet or in a corner with good teammates it can be lowkey impossible to hook.

I played a bunch of games with Krause using Agitation, Iron grasp, forever intertwined and mad grit and it makes me want to pick up every time, devs really should consider adding some of the perk affects base kit to encourage hooking.

With killers having much more agency over hooking I would also love to see basement removed as a mechanic, add four more normal hooks to the maps. I never feel good about a basement win lmao, the forced stair choke point you can also body block quite well is just outdated imo, not to mentioned how irritating watching the basement take up normal hook spawns I wanted to use.

Comments

  • Another killer who does not understand gameplay. Okay so I'll explain this, by removing playstyles for survivors like sabotage or in your case making it next to impossible to actually use all your doing is mandating that survivors gen rush more as there's very little for survivors to do besides generators. For survivors to get off their main objective the risk reward ratio needs to make sense, that's why the black buffet worked so well is that the payoff of doing tables was worth spending a minute to set up much of the time but not always if the killers knew what they were doing.

  • I'm not going to be as blunt as @esarraf , but his point is correct.

    A game where the killer always picks up is a bad game. The issue with slugging is not and has never been 'survivors never want to be left downed'. It's been when slugging becomes the norm or a totally different way to win the game.

    If a game is meant to have strategy elements, which DbD is supposed to, then players should frequently be faced with multiple courses of action, where deciding upon what is the right course of action is based on various risk/reward factors. What you're proposing isn't killer agency, its the opposite, its setting a clear, obvious path of what they should always do.

    Survivors have a few risk reward elements at play here. The survivor being chased has to decide whether its worth it to go down on a pallet, or gain more time by dropping it/running through. The rescuing survivor(s) has to decide whether its worth the lack of gen pressure (or healing, doing a totem, setting up a boon, etc.). The end result of making pickups easier and sabos less likely is that survivors don't even bother going for preventing a hook (which is usually a bad play anyway, its just a lot more fun), instead they just do gens.

    The killer also has risk/reward elements - she has to decide between a quick pickup, checking for rescuers, which hook to go to, etc. That's all agency. You're actually exhibiting a type of agency right now - choosing a build to make a particular course of action more effective.

    Basically, this is why making hooking easier is not the solution to slugging. The goal shouldn't be to take away those game elements, but to balance them in a way that makes for engaging gameplay.

  • @crogers271 said:

    I'm not going to be as blunt as @esarraf , but his point is correct.

    A game where the killer always picks up is a bad game. The issue with slugging is not and has never been 'survivors never want to be left downed'. It's been when slugging becomes the norm or a totally different way to win the game.

    If a game is meant to have strategy elements, which DbD is supposed to, then players should frequently be faced with multiple courses of action, where deciding upon what is the right course of action is based on various risk/reward factors. What you're proposing isn't killer agency, its the opposite, its setting a clear, obvious path of what they should always do.

    Survivors have a few risk reward elements at play here. The survivor being chased has to decide whether its worth it to go down on a pallet, or gain more time by dropping it/running through. The rescuing survivor(s) has to decide whether its worth the lack of gen pressure (or healing, doing a totem, setting up a boon, etc.). The end result of making pickups easier and sabos less likely is that survivors don't even bother going for preventing a hook (which is usually a bad play anyway, its just a lot more fun), instead they just do gens.

    The killer also has risk/reward elements - she has to decide between a quick pickup, checking for rescuers, which hook to go to, etc. That's all agency. You're actually exhibiting a type of agency right now - choosing a build to make a particular course of action more effective.

    Basically, this is why making hooking easier is not the solution to slugging. The goal shouldn't be to take away those game elements, but to balance them in a way that makes for engaging gameplay.

    Agreed, there need to be opportunities to save your teammates to make the game not completely hopeless for survivors. Pallet saves were already nerfed just recently and it took away part of the occasional opportunity to make a save. For me at least, I am rubbish at flashlights on controller.

    The reason perks like Fire Up and Forever Entwined are Perks, and build up their strength with tokens/gens is that very small number changes make a huge difference to the gameplay. If the possibility of a clutch flashlight save is permanently removed, it just means the teammates don't bother trying to save and instead sit on the generator. Which then leads to even less interaction, less time for the killer to get a hold on the match etc, etc.

    Also the basement is such an integral part of DbD, they could never remove it.

  • IMO pick up, drop and carry speed all kind of suck right now

    Compared to when exactly?

  • Have you never tried to get flashlight saves as survivor? They are hard to get and often near-impossible versus a good and aware killer. If they made basekit pick up speed any faster it would be that much harder.

    If you want to be able to insta-pick without worries keep running Agitation, Forever Entwined and Mad Grit.

    Killers should be encouraged to hook, but not like this.

  • @dangersmymidd1ename said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4103278#Comment_4103278

    Agreed, there need to be opportunities to save your teammates to make the game not completely hopeless for survivors. Pallet saves were already nerfed just recently and it took away part of the occasional opportunity to make a save. For me at least, I am rubbish at flashlights on controller.

    The reason perks like Fire Up and Forever Entwined are Perks, and build up their strength with tokens/gens is that very small number changes make a huge difference to the gameplay. If the possibility of a clutch flashlight save is permanently removed, it just means the teammates don't bother trying to save and instead sit on the generator. Which then leads to even less interaction, less time for the killer to get a hold on the match etc, etc.

    Also the basement is such an integral part of DbD, they could never remove it.

    How pallet saves where nerfed? They were only buffed with pallet density update.

  • @SpyUA said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4103303#Comment_4103303

    How pallet saves where nerfed? They were only buffed with pallet density update.

    The devs at some point made it that killers have priority on everything including stuns. So if the killer swings when they are stunned their swing will take priority over being stunned.

  • @esarraf said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4103364#Comment_4103364

    The devs at some point made it that killers have priority on everything including stuns. So if the killer swings when they are stunned their swing will take priority over being stunned.

    No, you just need to time the pallet stun, I have swinged out of the pallet stuns and sometimes the stun was timed well enough that I couldn't do anything about it.

  • @SpyUA said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4103490#Comment_4103490

    No, you just need to time the pallet stun, I have swinged out of the pallet stuns and sometimes the stun was timed well enough that I couldn't do anything about it.

    … Sure