Jason isn't too strong but he is too forgiving
I think in a vacuum Jason's powers are all fine but after giving this enough time I'm realizing making mistakes on Jason basically doesn't matter. Miss a spear? Reload at a scrap pile or hook that are literally everywhere with a reload time that makes Huntress jealous while having more range than slinger while basically being 115% the whole time. Survivor make too much distance? Go back into mist form and catch right back up. Did they make too much distance again? Well your cooldown is 5 seconds so go right back into mist form. Didn't protect a 3 gen? Doesn't matter with his mobility. Survivors know the counterplay to mist form and you can't find them? Well you can basically just stay in mist form forever and force them to do something or else you're all stuck there forever.
I am okay with Jason being able to do everything he can do but this handholding is dumb and outplaying him doesn't feel good because any advantage you get is minimal because Jason can basically reset the situation anytime he wants. This feels like ghoul again but this time the skill floor is higher for sure but this time BHVR has provided an escalator for anyone that struggles reaching it.
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it feels unfair, for me at least, mostly because other ranged killers are 110% and Jason is 115%, 25 seconds haste effect that gives you 115%, and you can rebuff anytime you want, let's be real, he is 115%, with map mobility and long distance ranged attacks
if that's the case make ranged killers 115%, I don't think Jason needs a nerf.
Honestly, I'm glad. Most Killers are absolutely unforgiving, it's nice to have a Killer who gets equal representation in the second chance category. Though admittedly I am getting annoyed at people calling him a 'ranged' killer when his M2 is about as accurate as a Fox News editorial and clunkier than a pontiac.
I really do wish he was built around his spear throwing and pinning. Instead pinning is worthless, his M2 is meh. His OE is everything to him. But it's nice to play a killer with which I don't feel so punished, legitimately.
I think Jason can get away with being 115% due to his spikes potentially being unavailable and causing him to repath mid chase.
I think huntress should definitely be 115% when she’s out of hatchets similar to springtrap but I think making killers like slinger 115% would be a bit of an over buff to his chase power.
Yeah this is how I feel. I've had chases with Jasons zoning and just continuously picking up spears and chucking them 5+ times before finally getting lucky. The reload is too fast for me to get away, and even if I did, he'll just teleport to a 1000 possible Iocations and cut me off. It's like a combo of 5 different killer powers but all made much easier. The reload is fast and plentiful, the hitbox is big, the haste makes the 4.4 pointless, and the teleport is fast with the locations of return being almost on demand. And he gets KI on top—so he doesn't even have to think—and it makes hard tunneling by returning to hook very easy. He needs larger cooldowns on pretty much everything.
It doesn't feel great to lose every match to what feels like skillless spamming. I don't want to hear this community taking about skill expression if this is what they support.
Yeah dude I agree. killer doesn't have the right to play a chill relaxing game and win. they should be swimming in a pool of sweat to earn their win. only survivors are allowed to be handheld.
I'm struggling to tell if this post is satire or not.
I swear I've seen someone make an identical post to this but about Survivors having Sprint Burst, Finesse, too many resources, & aggro Endurance + DS about a month ago.
Even the formatting seems similar, this genuinely might be a copy pasted inversion of another post.
Also, I agree, specifically with Jason's infinite duration of Omnipresent Evil.
I mean, we have that post like every three days.
By that logic any discussion about balance is just people demanding the other side sweat harder. Which, to be fair it probably is. But it’s not as if these same kind of criticisms aren’t brought to survivor perks either.
It's not it's just a thought I had this morning. I don't think Jason needs to be mega nerfed or anything just there are some things about him that are questionable from a design perspective because outplaying really doesn't feel good because anything you do can be undone by him very quickly. If nothing else he shouldn't be allowed to stay in Omni forever just to keep the game moving.
I do escape against him but I basically have to blast gens as fast as I can which isn't that fun.
Honestly, I think Jason is mostly in a good spot design-wise. His power is cool, the fantasy fits, and I actually like strong killers. I just think, like with many new/licensed killers, he currently feels a bit overtuned so people stay interested in him and ofc buy the new dlc as usual.
The main thing I would change is Omnipresent Evil. I don’t think he should be able to stay in it forever. Most mobility/stealth powers in the game have some kind of duration limit or meaningful restriction, and Jason should have that too. Especially in endgame, if you are the last survivor and you don’t find hatch quickly, it can feel almost impossible because he can patrol exits extremely fast while staying in that form. The cooldown after leaving it can stay short, but there should be a maximum duration.
I also think Sauna Stone is problematic. In theory you can counter Omnipresent Evil by crouching, but in chase that is not realistic. If Jason uses Omnipresent Evil and immediately reappears through a window, pallet, or breakable wall, you don’t have enough time to crouch long enough to avoid the effect. So the Exhaustion feels basically guaranteed, with very little real counterplay. Either the Exhaustion duration should be lower, or there needs to be a more realistic way to avoid it.
His spears are also very forgiving because he can reload them so quickly and they are very hard to dodge compared to something like a Huntress hatchet. I don’t think Jason needs to be gutted, but some tuning is needed so outplaying him actually feels rewarding.
Right now many people are still learning him, but once very good players fully optimize him, I think his zoning, mobility, reload access, and chase reset potential will show how strong he really is. I like the killer, I just think a few numbers need to be adjusted so the counterplay feels fair for both sides.
My personal opinion on Jason is a bit of a mixed bag. I think his ability punishes him just fine, but using Omnipresent Evil during a chase isn't the best idea. You can easily lose the survivor and give them distance out of nowhere, especially if they're pulling away from where you might teleport.
I mean, if he uses up all spears, he have a risk to losing a survivor, and there are usually 3-4 of spears nerby to chase, and even then, it's random, since there might not even be any nearby.
The knockback after spear hit can actually give the survivor an advantage, for example, moving them closer to the shack, putting you as a main at a disadvantage as a killer. You have to think about when it's best to throw and when to try to catch the survivor with Omnipresent Evil.
Besides, I think his spears made slow enough so that his effective range isn't too big.
He has far too much with no drawbacks. His Omnipresent Evil has no time limit, a ridiculously short cooldown, an automatic Haste that completely removes the drawback of a ranged killer, an auto-Hook grab when he hooks a survivor (Makes no sense), A projectile that has insanely easy reload and can auto respawn at the drop of a hat with his OE, Anti-stealth and slowdown, Mobility with a teleport, extra teleport spawns that grant earlier mentioned detection
It's just too much all at once with waaaay too little counterplay. He is genuinely guaranteed a hit with nearly every teleport if a Survivor does not leave their objective it's just ridiculous.
Not really, hook density is already extremely high on most maps. Add in the scrap piles, the ability to go into omnipresent evil, quickly grab a hook and catch back up since you know where they are and Jason always has a spear whenever he wants and can easily reload in chase.
I think the game play is determined by how the jason killer plays. I've seen some Jason killers who know how to make the game interesting without spamming his OE and give enough pressure on survivors. Then I've seen some who just sit there spamming the OE constantly. Jason is a strong killer but like others have said there is countering his OE. You win some and you lose some.
So, the only thing in this post I agree with is the power complaint about him shifting too quickly. Everything else is down to your pathing/awareness. For instance, I agree with increasing his power cooldown by 5-15s depending on testing and finding the sweet spot.
However, him being able to pick up extra shots mid chase and you not gaining extra distance is down to how you path. His spikes are arguably a slightly stronger huntress hatchet, and she gets 7 of those. Being able to reload mid chase is nothing new.
Do you know what the good thing about mist form is for survivors? you can basically choose who takes chase and balance hooks that way, especially in the early game when he can only really pressure 1 survivor. Choosing who takes chases when is a huge advantage i dont see many posts acknowledging, since the others can crouch/not interact with gens and not get found.
The second paragraph seems like your advocating for hard counters, which im 90% certain your not because most people dont like it when either side can just shut down you doing something. Like if a killer could give infinite exhaustion ect. Hard counter's arent good for the game, because they just shut out one sides ability to do something. Crouching is currently a soft counter to jason, and it should stay that way
I mean I just want countering Jason to feel meaningful, I wanna say 95% of my frustration with Jason is the constant OE. The spears I think are fine for the most part it's just frustrating you can dodge spears all day long but still get run down because he's 115% for some reason.
I personally think its the other way around. His M2 is quite unforgiving: its a tiny hitbox and you need to go out of your way (most of the times) to reload your power in case you miss - hit, if its the first health stage. You can go on Omnipresent Evil mode to recharge but a smart survivor will double back, crouch walk and take turn so you don't spawn right at top of them. The most effective way to play Jason is to try your shots and give up the chase in case you don't land it, alternating between targets until you get someone out of position.
I don't think he is weak in anyway, but i don't think he is absurdly strong too.
There's a strange situation here; I seriously suspect Jason is dependent on ping.
When I play as him, I'm slow, I can't catch up, the spear takes too long to cock, and the slowdown with the spear is too severe.
Meanwhile, when I play against him as a survivor, I don't even have time to run halfway around the pallet before I get hit; the spear registers me down to the smallest voxel and his speed is insane.
But the fact is, his speed boost shouldn't last 20/25 seconds after he exits his ability, It should be 5/8 seconds max.
His mobility cooldown, compared to his 4.6 speed boost's 20/25 seconds, is pure joke.
Jason can AFK in his ability.
Your countering is meaningful, just not a hard counter my friend. As i said the stealth helps u if someone else actually decides to take chase. your issue is that everyone was unwilling to take chase. Everyone wanted someone else to take aggro so the game didnt progress because you all hid. this would happen vs any other killer, it just feels more prevalent because everyones being cowardly around jason and overestimating him