Entering the Era of Sabo Squad?
I haven't been following the discussion too closely, so sorry if this has been argued at length…
Between tunneling debuffs in the Tunneling Reduction Update and slugging debuffs in the Slugging Reduction Update, are we not pushing Survivors into an aggressive sabo meta?
By denying a Killer the ability to hook someone, Survivors can manufacture value out of the new Self-Recovery rules (think weaponizing DS, OTR, DH) WHILE ALSO denying killers the Unique Hook Bonuses AND potentially forcing value out of the Tunneling Penalties.
…on paper, I've never seen a 4-man squad better positioned to control the pace of a game than with this update.
Comments
Sabo has never been an issue and never will be.
I mean it was when hooks wouldn't respawn...
While the version of basekit Unbreakable we got in the recent PTB was nowhere near as bad...
https://youtu.be/4YylV9xqt9A?si=uFEzbgiOfLfqHlXDThe last time BHVR tried giving basekit Unbreakable (although far more powerful than the recent attempt) it resulted in more harm than good. Last time, a turbo version of the Finisher Mori (in which the game would instantly end on a Mori animation if everyone was slugged at once) came alongside it, it didn't fix anything and mostly created new issues.
Just like this time, almost the whole community showed and informed BHVR on how flawed it was, and it went back in the oven.
The Finisher Mori of today was first tried then before getting rejected by most, and I assume the anti-slug in the recent PTB is the 2nd try at a much tamer basekit Unbreakable, still sharing similar flaws but on a less obvious scale.
They can be huge issue if they are skilled players 4man swf and you play weaker killer which cant do much to sto them, I had even hard time against 5k above hours swf as singularity they were realy good at dennying me hooks and doing gens but missplayed in endgame because of their arogance and were super toxic in chatt as usualy they are only for few exeptions.
There isnt much killer kile ghostface can do against full antislug meta sabbo swf on strong map which favors more survivors, he cant stalk much either because sluged or hooked survivors can reveal you and stay under palett so other one can run around its loose loose situation where your only hope is they make mistake.
Hook abbo was supper slow and required good toolbox or saboteur from jake, agi+iron was meta not only because of this but because there werent any better perks like noed or whispers were good back then with brutal,endurending (countering ds) and perks like sloppy were trash. Super easy to tunnel someone,facecamping, no antitunnel exept strong borrowed time which was onetime use and not so many antislug perks, it was one side broken stuff vs other sides broken stuff and strategies nothing like nowdays and deffinitly almost nothing will be possible after the delayed changes hit live even in not so busted version.
Genrushing equels tunneling its just one side doing its objective fastest and easiest way which it can be done and its most effective way to do it.
Devs stated its viable strategy but they dont want it to be that abusable like tunneling one survivor on 4-5 gens and there arent no such things which could be compared in being busted as old mories,bnp or instaheals which were instant press of a button and survivor was killed, fully healed from gound or gen was don instantly.
Same as survivors forcing bodyblocks after unhook with ds abusing something that isnt meant to be for.
They put in a ptb that removed both, since you're going there.
I saw literally zero complaints about removing body blocking.
But they pulled the entire ptb test... early... because people melted down over the tunneling part.
So maybe, these aren't actually equivalent.
Its because the counter to that playstyle is slugging. If your going to have ways to deny hooking, you can't ALSO deny slugging.
What they did was tunneling was made much harder and not impossible but you have paid price for doing it which could hurt killers that didnt tunnuled or didnt do it directly and bodyblocking was made harder but not impossible with dbd hitboxes.
Still not disabling bodyblocking only making it harder same with buffing antitunnel so nothing was fixed only made harder.
DBD hitboxes are quite wild and its not inpossible to do bodyblocks just requires more thinking same as tunneling.
Even if they made it that way we all know how they hitboxes work and stay without any problems few patches.
You are bigger troll than I tbh but back to the topic I dont believe they would do some feature like this.
Not at all.
Same as your argument tuneling requires no skill but gens do dude get it straight.
Your argument rely on rng and calling everything you dissagree no skill or being trolls, what are you linguist? Not all Europe is having english as their first language.
What a shame to dissapoint you.
I can't go back and equip a perk if I find out the survivors decided to do a sabo approach. Your question comes across that I should just auto-lose if a team decides to do this and I dont have the perk to counter it.
depends on time spent. If you have 3 ppl following the chase the whole time, obviously no gens are getting done. As long as you leave at least 1 person on gens though... the killer is effectively stalled completely if they arnt allowed to hook or slug. You can't really be against slugging and call it boring, while ALSO allowing gameplay to deny hooking. Those go hand in hand.
If it was 90 seconds per down, you'd have a point. Its not though. It doesnt even have to be 90 seconds one go to unlock that. Slug someone for 60 seconds even and they'll pick themselves up next time by the time they fill their own recovery bar.
This is of course while ignoring the basekit tenacity. If you take your eyes off the slug to handle their teammates, they're not gonna be in the same place 15 seconds later. They're gonna be hiding in a bush while their 90 seconds total slug time is filling.
I tried in other disscussion to explain this dreamer that when killer doesnt get hooks he cant presure gens only with few weaker regression perks and basekit regression the strongest regression perks and genblocking perks are bound to hooks so no hooks means no painres,pop,grim embrace and ded mans they are countered and even if one survivor is doing gens this will still lead to powered gates with killer having few hooks and no one dead which is easy 3 man out maybe 4 if the killer is m1 with no mobility or lethality like some sort of working instadown (mayers,bubba,billy are goo exsample ghostface has easy counter which can do even the hooke or downed survivor and theres nothing ghostface can do just pray if they missplay) but explaining this to guy who thinks tunneling one survivor is same in time and effort consuming as original BNP has no point in arguing.
Im fine countering other playstyles... the counter though is being removed. The counter is slugging until you no longer have people hovering around preventing hooking. Slugging mind you already has a basekit counter, which is the same basekit counter to hooking. Your teammate gets off gens to come get you back to your feet.
This proofs that you dont play killer that much even more for me chase perks? They are great in chase builds on few killers with good addons that have synergy but alone all they do is get you down few seconds faster and gens fly +30% faster which still leads to loss if you dont have 30 seconds chases with no lost time in finding survivors and getting to the most progressed gens and chasing them off.
Its really not an and/or thing here. Thats like me saying which do you want, tunneling or slugging. I think its not unreasonable to expect a killer having counterplay options to the things survivors can do. I also am not a fan of stacking effects in perks and addons in general. The fact a survivor team can finish all 5 gens in the first 3 minutes isn't something I think should be possible because it really throws off all attempts at balance and requires no interaction with the killer to do it.
Here we go again calling people bad and unskilled because you have no more decent arguments just proofs my point more.
I could say the same with tunneling to you but Im not hypocritical as you and I play both sides more evenly unlike you.
That counterplay goes away entirely once you've reached the point of survivors picking themselves up after 30 seconds (or sooner depending on perks). The weakest part of the basekit unbreakable occurs essentially at the beginning of the game when survivors are at their strongest due to pallets and resources. After that... its quick pickups.
That doesnt make sense... Theres no way for the killer to track when hooks will respawn. That respawn time is determined by survivor addons and doesnt have a visible indicator or anything for the killer to know when its going to come back. That approach is ALSO dependent on the killer assuming things like flip flop and breakout isn't in play.
All of this of course while ignoring the obvious... sabo plays occur AFTER the killer has picked up the survivor and during the transport. Killers basekit are slower than survivors basekit while carrying. If a killer sees a survivor going for a sabo play... the counter is to slug.
Im pretty sure they'll be able to get away just fine... Please explain exactly how equipping the addon would change if they get away or not?
This is the 3rd time we've had a failed anti-slugging solution.
There was supposed to be a chaos shuffle this year with an anti-slugging solution, and the solution was so bad the entire event got cancelled.
I have 3k hours in DBD and this is my favorite role/build:
Does my post make sense now, or do you want to keep me in your box labeled "killer mains who are bad" and pretend like I simultaneously cry about gen rushing while denouncing any and all secondary objectives added to the game?
I could give two s---s if DBD goes down this path. The thought hit me last night, so I decided to ask here.
If it doesn't make sense, its because you're not trying to see the full picture. Think about that next time.
I don't play in squads and I know from experience that sabo builds are incredibly strong.
The biggest pitfall I see with sabo players is the same I see with flashlight players—they spend way too much time trying to force value out of their build. The other pitfall I see is looping over/around the slug after forcing a drop.
You don't need to communicate with other players. Working on gens in high-traffic areas/center of the map will frequently present you with opportunities and identifying Scourge Hooks/easily defendable hooks will tell you where the Killer wants to go.
It only takes 1 (maybe 2) well-timed sabos to give your team momentum.
…I don't need to convince you though. If the changes go through as-is, and less experienced players connect the dots, the cracks will show eventually.
I see we will end it here we got to the same part as before now you just dont call everyone skiless but bad at english quite poor arguments for someone I expect mature, your lgical part in your arguments is just calling everything you dont agree with unskilled which is ok from someone who playes only one side and you proofed my point when you called original BNP same as tunneling with required skill and effort this proofs further that you werent in old DBD if you were then you wouldnt say this nonsence. Chase perks can make chases fast and still hepl you win good exsample is hens video where he plays some build on spirit (+a-tier killer, she is in top 10 strongest killers even after many nerfs to her kit) which is from some of her main Idk the girls name but she was playing in his chucky vs spirit video as spirit, all that was about if he could have super fast chases withstrong killer which has solid mobility in her kit that you can win without slowdown or endgame perks but one or two longer chases against good survivors and some few other missplays such as not being able to locate survivors fast as your next target means gens will go super fast and there isnt much you can do to stop them maybe slug and tunnel to get upperhand but that wont be possible next patch (not with this 9.2. which should have these changes but they were delayed because of overtuned effects) so full chase build is just trying to stomp your opponent and if you dont get uppehand fast there isnt much you can do to come back compare to builds which have some gen deffence and endgame perks with synergy thats it. Im not so naive to call everyone who has problem with being tunneled skiless and bad to loop and teling them they need ds and other perks for their lack of skill as you, in DBD in fact its easier to play perkless and addonless (with item as survivor) survivor than perkless and addonless killer but your mmr (skill and experience of your opponents) with map rng and power of the killer you play are some factors which can change it ofcourse not all things arent always guarantee as you claim some things are but other things have chance of multiple outcomes.