So many killers "feel" incomplete from their flaws.
Pinhead feels harder to play than he should if you don't use impaling wire.
Plague has bugs that have been "Plaguing" her for years that make her feel clunky.
Onyro's Addons need to be rework and she needs a solution tapes being held hostage
Chucky is torn to shreds
Skull Merchant is torn to shreds (Although being worked on as we speak so that's lovely)
Hound master is riddled with bugs still and her addons need love. One of her addons is still completely useless.
Nemesis needs slight addon adjustments. Zombies are buggy. Large map zombies are useless. (I've sent video after video displaying this in the past to support, they need a little love)
Unknowns power is way too easy to cleanse off.
Ghostface can be revealed while survivors are on the hook which isn't fair. He also could use a few small buffs.
Twins is a mess right now with her bugs.
Pyramid Head needs a massive addon rework. You have 0 creativity to choose from with addons which makes me sad. Coming out of a cage survivors should get the same bt/haste they would get off a hook.
Alien is still not fun to go against. (Personal Opinion.) I feel like this chapter was a missed opportunity sadly.
Doctors Illusions are meaningless and do not fool anyone They need to have another function to them. He also needs some of his addons adjusted. They are "odd"
Hag needs love and her addons do to. There is no reason to play her in my opinion unless if you of course just genuinely love the character and that is totally understandable <3
Feel free to add anything to the list - but as you can see no matter really who you select you are going to have to deal with some flaw in one way or another. It just doesn't feel right.
My desire is that we tackle this a little more efficiently. I understand 100% that we are focused on Quality of Life, Health Updates, Bug fixes and new mechanics to support that, HOWEVER, I feel like a lot of this also should have been included.
Comments
I figured out with unknown the best way to keep the status effect on them is to play like a reverse trickster where you are constantly trying to stay in cover, popping out whenever your next shot is ready. And his ideal distance to shoot from is mid-long range as they cant run towards or away from you to avoid the shot like they can up close.
Currently the doctors illusions count as a tracking device through walls like the perk with the birds as he can see them through the walls and they look in the general direction of the survivor. They could get like a slight motion towards the survivor or an attack swing animation, maybe even switch between them to make them seem atleast convincing enough for a split second. (Along with aestris illusions could atleast have motion to them)
Ill admit with ghost face while playing him i feel lile you get broken out of stealth too easy, yet playing against him its like theres nothing you can do even staring at him point blank doesnt work fast enough. Hard to balance that.
Dracula is 1 of my 2 100 mains and his hellfire pillars can certainly feel the nerf even with 2 cooldown addons. And both his red addons are so useless that 1 of them makes it harder to land hits rather than easier (because it barely curves toward the survivor like it says it does while removing some range) and the other only gets seen if youve lost the round, and doesnt do anything unless you are right at the gate as it opens and people arent injured AND they don't dodge all the pillars lol so he could use a change or buff for those.
My first 100 main is xeno and ive never been excited to play against him as the turrets are such a "well that didnt work" mechanic that you are prettymuch guaranteed to go down quickly unless they can't aim well. And playing the xeno is somewhat annoying with the lower view, and survivors being able to pile turrets to make safezones where you will always lose chase or take twice as long to catch them so allot of people avoid playing the xeno. So i wouldnt mind a full rework of his power like they are trying to do with skull merchant, as there were quite a few ideas everyone had in mind on how it would likely play when the chapter released.
The one thing i notice with Pyramid head is i feel too slow. Everytime ive ever tried to chase someone from one end of the map to the gate i could run in a straight line behind them and still not catch up (even without the hope perk). And i don't know if the pyramid head mains would be mad but i would mind if the cages counted as hooks and gave endurance/hooking points towards perks etc, as the only reason to send someone to a cage is to either tunnel or you are surrounded by people trying to blind you etc. (And definitely the addons need changing lol)
Oh I like your idea with doctor 🤔 that’s kinda neat when you think about it!
Yeah, ghost face is ridiculously easy to break him out of his power. Big respect for the P100 ghost faces out there. I have tried him and could never. Way too frustrated to play. I only bought him for his perks.
Yeah Pyramid head I just wanna add BT/Haste. However I don’t want to change anything else about his cages.
@SoGo I thought of you when I wrote all of this out. 🥹
I think knight falls under this aswel bhvr wants to make the guards chase on their own but meanwhile theyre only 0.1ms faster (0.4ms for assassin) and we need about 4 fully basekit addons for the guards to achieve this (call to arms, dried horsemeat and map of the realm, and the torch addon) without these addons basekit the guards wil forever be unable to work on their own
Aww, thanks.
Yeah the guards are in a weird spot. If you get to close to a survivor while the guard is chasing he will end his chase really fast. I get it there has to be a balance of course but I am not sure what that would be. I do know he needs a bit more basekit when it comes to his addons. He is very addon reliant. @Blueberry is on a very impressive kill streak with him right now. Last I checked 165+ win streak hahaha.
Yeah we're doing well at 165 and still going, but with a caveat (recordings are still on my twitch atm). For Knight to be good atm it requires you playing in ways the survivors will not deem "fun" most of the time. If you play him how he's intended by the developers to be played, he's very bad and as @XDgamer018 mentioned he's very addon reliant still. I've backed off MotR and Dried Horsemeat some though. You can get away not using MotR since their changes and I don't want horsemeat base kit because while it would help the guards get hits, they need to have more player input involved for the hits as players will not just want AI's reliably getting hits without skill involved from the Knight. The goal is not just more reliable guard hits, it's more reliable guard hits that require skilled input from the Knight.
My circumvent for guards getting more reliable hits but making it require skill is adding a feature to his guards that make their speed scale based on proximity to the survivor when they're detected and the Hunt starts. So just normal Knight players throwing guards out will get no value from this, but if your hearing is really good (similar to Spirit) you can time your placements to be as close to on top of them as you can and be rewarded for it. This would allow the guards potential hits, but only if you're skilled enough. Knights needed a higher skill ceiling anyway. This also makes AI hits more reasonable to survivors as you know that if the guards were moving fast enough to hit you it's because their was player skill involved between you two, not free. This would also make people use the actual banners more as currently the guards are so bad/slow that most people just run out the timer instead of using the intended banner counterplay.
Now Town Watch's Torch and Call to Arms absolutely need to be base kit. Call to Arms should have been made base kit in his last rework, no idea why it wasn't. It's also the quintessential addon that enables the exact play style that they want you to be doing with him. Town Watch's Torch is the other component to enable the play style they want. They don't want you pincering, they want you doing macro play having a guard keep one busy while you chase another. Torch enables this play style. Without Torch you are keeping one survivor busy while you walk across the map as an m1 with realistically no mobility (the 5% haste is negligible) and no power to chase someone down…that is not viable or more importantly fun for that matter. You're just gonna get pre ran with hold W game play and looped to oblivion. Torch circumvents the hold W game play and gets you the hits as basically a stealth killer. It's kinda similar to Twins issue as far as fun is concerned, people don't like losing their power and having to play a bunch of the game as an m1 walking around chasing people with no power, it's boring.
These problems essentially leave your addon slots permanently locked down with no flexibility to use other things. Which I suppose isn't too bad in Knights current addon state as the vast majority of his addons are D tier useless anyway, but we're trying to be theorcrafting in a hypothetical world where his addons were improved and decent as well so we can have multiple options of things to run. You can see some ideas of what I'm talking about here:
A lot of his specific guards effects are way undertuned. Their power level hasn't taken into account that it's basically only activating every 3rd guard you send out since most the effects are only on 1 type of them. Also, effects that are applied on guard hits are utterly worthless unless guard hits are improved. Currently guard hits happen so rarely for these types of addons to have no purpose. This is why part of my supposed changes was making those affects be applied by the Knight on his m1's if he gets the hits while a guard is in chase. You could even add a stipulation that it only applies them on survivors hit that aren't in Hunt to discourage pincering if you want.
Also would it really be that big a deal if guards applied perks on gen kicks as well? I don't think so, and it would open up more unique builds.
Anyways I'm ranting, we can talk more about Knights issues further or what I'm doing to make him work atm if anyone's interested but that's enough for a single post lol.
Onryo we've already talked about plenty, but yeah, addon rework and she needs a tape counter play (I'd prefer tape destruction on hit but without giving condemn). Only rewards skilled play and doesn't strengthen bad Onryos.
Hag needs an addon pass and wiping her traps away should be the counter play, not how you can max range run through and trigger her traps without getting punished.
Chucky needs an addon pass and Jumprope base kit. Controversial change but I'd like if they emphasized what makes him unique which is his size and third person by giving him base kit no red stain for loop mind games.
Nemesis desperately needs an addon pass and I wish they'd stop focusing his improvements on his whip. We already have a dozen killers with an anti loop ranged hit, the whip is just another reskin of all the others. What makes him unique is his zombies and that's what should be improved. They need significantly faster move speed and detection so that they're actually decent map pressure and you can play around them. You can even make it scale on infected survivors to only reward skilled play.
Unknown is a very overrated killer imo. High Skill/High Risk/Low Reward is what I think of here, similar to Pinhead. You have to successfully land a ranged hit with no reward yet and then land another and within a short time frame or now you need two hits again. The time it takes to remove Weakened needs to literally be doubled, it is removed way too fast for the skill required applying it in the first place. Airborn hits should also apply the Weakened, not just the Hinder, this is just silly. You're being punished for skilled hits. Shorten the teleport cooldown some to allow hit and run play style more.
Ghostface similar to what you said, hooked and slugged survivors should not be able to reveal him, this is just silly. He's clunky enough already. The delay of being broken out 2 seconds later after breaking LoS is also very annoying. I'd push for Drop-leg Knife Sheath base kit as that's never leaving my loadout but maybe I'm asking too much. He relies on haste in the build to function.
Twins needs a massive addon overhaul. Movespeed addons are too good to never not take them. Add a little base kit and change them to something else. All of the "crushing victor while dormant" are useless. He is rarely ever dormant. "Crushing Victor while attached" also useless. You don't want Victor on that many healthy people as your power is getting taken hostage. All the Victor crushing addons need to be just "crushing Victor", point blank, done. That means while attached, while dormant, or after a victor pounce. Now they're actually getting triggered often enough to matter at all. Most of their durations are also way too short. Broken for 20 seconds or Blind for 30 is irrelevant. Make both like 60 seconds. Victor being taken hostage also needs to be addressed. I understand they don't want instant returns, but walking around as an m1 killer with no power for lots of the match isn't fun. This is why many people don't play her. Make it while Victor is attached she's Undetectable or she has some haste, something. Playing Charlotte needs to be fun too, it's not. It's also very boring with how limited they are on perk choices since so many don't work on Victor.
Deathslinger is the forgotten ranged killer that's just way worse than the rest. Needs a massive addon pass. Give him 24 meter terror radius. Longer range. More chain durability for pull arounds. Faster base kit reload. His spear hitbox has two detections, one of survivors and one for collision. Slightly shrink the collision one and slightly increase the survivor one to give a little more leniency on shooting through holes. This type of high skill/high risk game play should be rewarded.
Dredge needs maps to have significantly more lockers when he's the killer. He is way, way too map reliant. Too many maps have lockers no where near gens.
Pig needs to see her boxes again. I used to love Pig playing her as a macro killer similar to Onryo. Not seeing her boxes destroyed her macro play. Now her traps are just a place and forget while you run around as a bad stealth killer with a bad anti loop. She lost what made her unique.
Myers needs the stalk limit per survivor removed. He can literally run out of his power, this is bad design.
Artist, lockers shouldn't remove birds. This destroys the long range snipe game play. The skill is in dodging, not just fast vaulting lockers to remove the power. I'd improve her long range snipe game play which is what people enjoy and weaken her anti loop which is what everyone hates and finds boring.
Vecna needs shorter cooldowns again. He's just a worse Dracula in all aspects.
This is perfect thank you. I would like to add that if bhvr wants the guard the keep 1 busy the banner should be removed because with it currently in the game the survivor can just "distract" the guard via a window/pallet and then just grab the banner without any risk
Yeah so currently the guards are so weak that the banner shouldn't exist, it's counter play to something so weak that it doesn't need the counter play. Ideally though if they were to improve the guards capabilities how we're talking then the banner would be acceptable.
This really just comes off as forced nitpicking. Chucky is not "torn to shreds." Doctor hallucinations being buffed would make no sense because they require no input from the doctor player. Ghostface not being revealable by hooked survivors would make proxy camping even more of a nightmare for uncoordinated teams than it already is. Unknown you can literally counter the cleansing by breaking los and hitting another shot in time. Zombies being buffed would make no sense for the same reason as buffing doctor hallucinations. And I don't know what makes you say "no matter who you play you're gonna have to deal with some flaw" as if S tiers don't exist.
No offense but there is nothing "Forced" about this. These are genuine experiences I and many other killers are encountering daily. It can be very frustrating truthfully. I don't think you should be invalidating how I feel on the topic and what I am literally going through day in a day out on this game.
I would love to see improvements. I don't think there is anything wrong with that.
Also why should I have to play just an S tier killer? Blight/Nurse…If you main survivor that's fine but let's not ignore the issues that are currently existing.
Why do all these killer weaknesses and counters even exist when Blight is in the game virtually untouched aside from his addon reworks? Xenomorph without the flame turrets is still weaker than Blight. Vecna without the treasure chests is still weaker than Blight. If Nemesis didn't have the vaccines or could damage with tentacle without needing to infect survivors he'd still be weaker than Blight. If the Unknown could damage survivors immediately with UVX he'd still be weaker than Blight.
So why do all these killers have these clear weaknesses but Blight doesn't? Why can Blight see scratchmarks of survivors when using his power but Legion can't? Why can't Kaneki down survivors with his power but Blight can? The power disparity between Blight and the rest of the killer roster is massive and makes me question the design decisions behind the other killers.
There is something wrong with wanting to see "improvements" when a lot of them are actually just unwarranted buffs. You find it frustrating that doctor's hallucinations or zombies don't give more value without you having to do anything, or chucky being torn to shreds even tho he's A tier? Doesn't really sound like an issue with the game. And when did I say you should have to choose from the limited S tiers? All I did was point out your flawed point about how "no matter who you select something is wrong," but instead of admitting you're wrong you're twisting my words :/
You can feel however you want, doesn't mean bad changes should come to the game
All of what OP posted.
All of it. Make it so, BHVR. THEN you can look at buffing the Survivors' perks, which they also desperately need. Make the Killer side fair first, then start repairing the game so Survivors do not feel they have gotten the shaft!
You find it frustrating that doctor's hallucinations or zombies don't give more value without you having to do anything.
False. I didn't say that. I said Nemesis Zombies are extremely buggy in their current state. If you want I have TONS of videos showcasing too how awful his zombies are on large maps. As for doctor. I am not asking for his hallucinations to chase you and hook, so lets stop acting like I just don't want to play the game.
 chucky being torn to shreds even tho he's A tier?
I don't know who told you Chucky is A tier or what tier list you read but remember tier list are just opinion based much like the one I am about to give you. However, I will state a few facts. Chucky in the last few patches has gotten severe nerfs and the loss of an entire ability that isn't any stronger than what we already have in the game…let's be so for real.
We have 2 "S Tier Killers" I just don't vibe with them. I shouldn't have to play them or be forced to because other killers lack in other areas.
So far you only have complained about my points on Chucky and Nemesis so I will assume you agree that the other 12 killer's I have mentioned could use tweaks.
“Chucky is torn to shreds” bro hahaha
BHVR's goal is to keep killers at around 60% for their Kill Rates. As you can see that is just not happening. He has almost a 25% chance of just getting 0 kills in a game. I get these stats arent 100% accurate but their good enough.
Honestly, I feel most killers in dbd is meant to be "incomplete" in a way, even though they are strong enough to be a big threat
So kinda complicated about this
And by asking for the zombies bugs to be fixed you're asking for them to be stronger. And by asking for doctor's hallucinations to have another function you're asking for them to be stronger. Both of which are mechanics that get value from you doing nothing, so yes, you did say that.
All of chucky's nerfs were deserved, he was and still is a strong killer despite being the least skillful dash killer. So let's be so for real in not acting like he needs any more buffs.
Again, completely ignoring my actual point about S tiers, that you said no matter who you play you'll be missing something even though that's not the case. I never said or implied that you should have to play an S tier to deal with these issues, so why do you keep responding to a point I'm not making?
And still…I quite literally pointed out issues with your points on Doctor and Ghostface too, but that's not to say I agree with all the other points, but the points I'm talking about are good examples for showing how your frustration with the game seems to have little to do with a lack of game health.
I mean, aren't Killers intended to have a weakness? If Killers have no weaknesses Survivors can never win.
I’m aware, but I am not asking to correct that. There’s a difference between having a weakness and a long standing bug that’s been in and out of the game for years.
These issues should be fixed.
This isn’t a us vs them discussion. These are just my thoughts I have noticed and have discussed with various people.
For the record perks in general need love.