Let's fix Maps finally!
What should we try to do with Maps?
I believe that auras fundamentally are more helpful for new players and SoloQ. Maps are actually good, but should be made more accessible to the players who would benefit more with them!
The fact is if you're in a SWF or are highly skilled enough, maps are not something that is ever gonna offer you a lot of value... however for a newer player, these items are actually very useful at allowing them to scout quickly...
Why aren't they used?
Maps have some common problems that makes them unappealing to the newer players who would actually benefit from them.
- They are only available as green or higher items, do are hard to acquire.
- They are inconsistent in their behaviour between rarities, so fiddly to learn to use.
- They are add-on and perk dependent, notably Detective's Hunch which is locked behind a paywall.
The aim of the rework is to make maps more accessible and generally more useful for newer players across the board.
The Great Base Map Overhaul
Tattered Map - Brown Rarity
- Tracks 1 generator at the start of the trial
- Tracks any of the following items when coming within 8m: Generators, Gate Switches, Dull Totems
- Has 12 charges
Parchment Map - Green Rarity
- Tracks 2 generators at the start of the trial
- Tracks any of the following items when coming within 8m: Generators, Gate Switches, Dull Totems
- Has 16 charges
Rainbow Map - Iri Rarity
- Tracks 3 generators at the start of the trial
- Tracks any of the following items when coming within 8m: Generators, Gate Switches, Dull Totems
- Has 20 charges
The Great Map Add-On Overhaul
Map Addendum - Brown
- Add 6 charges to the usage of the map (was 5 charges)
Retardant Jelly - Brown (was Yellow)
- Reduces depletion rate by 20% when channeling the map
Unusual Stamp - Brown (was Yellow)
- Increases tracking range by 8m
Glass Bead - Yellow (Unchanged)
- Press the Secondary Action button while using the Map to use the Glass Bead to place a Pillar of Light at your current location that can be seen by all Survivors
Human Hair Cordage (Was Yellow Wire) - Yellow
- Allow tracking of hex totems at 50% of tracking range (was ability to track Gate Switches)
Red Twine - Yellow
- Allows tracking of killer hooks (was killer belongings)
Black Silk Cord - Green
- Allows tracking of windows and pallets (was Hatch)
Odd Stamp - Green (Unchanged)
- Increases tracking range by 12m
Glass Lens - Green (New)
- Reduces time to start channeling Map by 25%
Crystal Bead - Purple (Unchanged)
- Reveals auras to all survivors while channeling the Map.
Crystal Lens - Purple (New)
- Reduces time to start channeling Map by 50%
Discussion Points
My hope is the brown map makes the map a more appealing/accessible option for new players who would benefit from auras a lot more. By standardising all maps to have basekit Generators, Gate Switches and Dull Totems, it gives players help finding thing they commonly struggle with and make totem bases perks especially more viable.
With gate switches also basekit, I've instead changed the gate tracking add-on to allow hex totems to be tracked. Maps are the single best counter to Hex Builds though, so I've toned down their effective range to 4m at base and 10m at best with add-ons so that Hexes aren't completely nuked by maps.
I've also removed hatch tracking from maps, since this makes more sense to exist as an ability for keys, and I feel newer map users would benefit more from an add-on for tracking Windows and Pallets instead. This gives a genuine appealing use for maps for newer players, where they can instead use maps instead of WoO, which may bring that down in meta usage, while also giving a little more skillful option to use.
I also add add-ons to reduce the charge start up time for players who find the down time annoying.
See Also:
Full discussion on the issues with maps and keys here:
@UndeddJester said:
So I've been trying out Map and Keys more, and both of them can actually be comparably good to toolboxes and medkits (which for the sake of your reading time I'll highlight below)... but both of them suffer from the same problems:
- Their effects (unlike flashlights, medkits and toolboxes) are inconsistent between rarity.
- They are thus very add-on (even perk) reliant. Without certain add-ons their usefulness is greatly diminished.
- There is no cheap and cheerful variant (minimum of green for both).
- Their non iri variants are pretty bad, which makes the only useful versions of them the very rare iri items that you can't acquire easily... and all other versions are trash.
So to elucidate a little more:
Maps
The problem with all maps is the range is short at 8m, and there is this need to "discover" items.
However with add-ons and/or Detective's Hunch:
- Rubber/Odd Stamp - You NEED a stamp... increasing your range gets rid of the discovery problem, especially with 2 stamps... alternatively combined with Red Twine and these add-ons make maps amazing. As you roam around doing your regular business, you'll discover most auras without even trying... it's god tier info.
- Red Twine - This item is incredible... just because it gives you totems. For any totem build, this is by far the easiest method of finding them, and it makes hexes VERY easy to deal with.
- Crystal Bead - Pillar of Light, great for using the likes of Prove Thyself or as a budget Empathetic Connection. Fun but outclassed by other add-ons...
Iri maps are actually awesome. On top of gens you also get to track hatch, hooks and exit gate switches, which is equivalent to an immediately available combined Clairvoyance and Sabotuer. The bloodsense maps from the Bloodmoon event are even more amazing, with all these benefits and with a limited Empathy thrown in too...
The standard green maps however don't get any of these luxuries... they need the other add-ons to get just 1 of the things the iri maps get.... and without those add-ons you just get gens, which just isn't enough value alone, making them suck... you can shore up with add-ons, but you're losing out on something...
Keys
Keys Have a similar problem, without add-ons they almost do nothing.... the green key literally does nothing.
However with add-ons and/or Open Handed:
- Blood Amber - Of course… its wall hacks on the killer and is amazing at surviving mind games at loops. The duration debuff is a much needed and fair debuff but...
- Prayer Rope/Beeds - Gives you 10s/15s extra duration, basically a requirement for Blood Amber... and sadly both for Broken Key (10s) and Dull Key (5s)... compared to Skeleton keys (30s) 😑
- We've also got range add-ons, survivor aura addons and Key saving add-ons... however all points can be made without diving into this.
Basically is the iri key or bust. The 30s duration on these aura reads is what makes the key good. The base times for the broken key and especially the dull key are woefully pitiful, making their usage pointless...
Especially the green key... you'd think with it at least being unable to open the hatch it'd be good for aura reading, but nope... it's crap... and since hatch requires you to be last player standing the dull keybis basically crap as well...
Summary
So both Keys and Maps have the same issue... their iri forms/at their best they are great… but the non iri forms are basically useless without perks/add-ons, and usually even then are falling short.... and even the greens aren't common... the only versions worthwhile are the iri variations...
Meanwhile the cheapest medkits and yellow/green toolboxes are good or best variations of each... and far easier to attain.
Really they don't need a lot of buffs... just their lower tier variants need to be made to not completely suck imo 😒
Keys sister thread:
@UndeddJester said:
What should we try to do with Keys?
I believe that auras fundamentally are more helpful for new players and SoloQ. Keys are actually good, but should be made more accessible to the players who would benefit more with them!
The fact is if you're in a SWF or are highly skilled enough, keys are not something that is ever gonna offer you a lot of value... however for a newer player, these items are actually very useful. The ability to easily see what your teammates are doing, or quickly spy where a killer is looping/coming from is very useful info.
Why aren't they used?
Keys a number of problems that makes them unappealing to the newer/soloQ players who would actually benefit from them.
- They are only available as green or higher items making them hard to acquire.
- They are inconsistent in their behaviour between rarities, making them awkward to use.
- They are add-on and perk dependent, making them fiddly.
The aim of the rework is to make keys more accessible and generally more useful for newer/soloQ players across the board, and give keys a clear purpose.
The Great Base Key Overhaul
Broken Key - Brown Rarity
- Cannot open the Hatch
- Hatch aura is passively revealed within 12m without using Mind Channel
- Mind Channel reveals the aura of hatch within 24m
- Has 20 charges
Old Crooked Key - Green Rarity
- Can be consumed to open hatch in 8 seconds (no charge requirement)
- Hatch aura is passively revealed within 12m without using Mind Channel
- Mind Channel reveals the aura of hatch within 24m
- Has 10 charges
Dull Key - Purple Rarity
- Can be consumed to open hatch in 1 second (removed charge requirement)
- Hatch aura is passively revealed within 12m without using Mind Channel
- Mind Channel reveals the aura of hatch within 24m
- Has 15 charges
Skeleton Key - Iri Rarity
- Can be consumed to open hatch in 1 second (removed charge requirement)
- Hatch aura is passively revealed within 12m without using Mind Channel
- Mind Channel reveals the aura of hatch within 36m
- Has 20 charges
The Great Key Add-On Overhaul
Prayer Rope - Brown (Unchanged)
- Add 10 charges for the Mind Channel ability.
Scratched Pearl - Brown (was Yellow)
- Increase range of aura reading by 12m.
Eroded Token - Brown (was Yellow)
- Reveals survivor auras within 24m when using the Mind Channel ability.
Prayer Beads - Yellow (Unchanged)
- Adds 15 charges for the Mind Channel ability.
Silver Chain - Yellow (New)
- Reduces time to start Mind Channeling by 40%
Gold Token - Green (Unchanged)
- Reveals survivor auras within 48m when using the Mind Channel ability.
Blood Stone - Green (New)
- Reveals the killers aura with 8m when using the Mind Channel abililty.
- Consumption rate while revealing the killers aura using the Mind Channel ability is increased by 100%.
Milky Glass - Purple (Unchanged)
- When using the key to open a closed Hatch, consume this add-on instead of the key.
Unique Wedding Ring - Purple (Unchanged)
- Reveals the aura of the obsession at all times.
- Reduces chance of becoming the obsession by -100%.
Weaved Ring - Purple (Unchanged)
- Upon death this add-on is consumed instead of the Key.
Blood Amber - Iridescent (was Purple)
- Reveals the killers aura within 24m when using the Mind Channel ability. (Was 32m)
- Consumption rate while revealing the killers aura using the Mind Channel ability is increased by 100%. (Was all uses of the Mind Channel ability)
Discussion Points
The basic hatch auras are there as an appealing option for all levels of play. A newer player may prefer to take a key as a reasonable back up plan for if the game goes south, and for all players, finding a key in a chest is genuinely helpful in trying for a hatch escape.
Now I know what you're thinking, why nerf Skeleton Key when keys aren't popular already? We are buffing the lower keys and then bringing the iri more in line so there isn't such a huge iri jump. The goal here is to make aura reading of the key more common and popular for new players and soloQ, we dont want useful aura reading gated behind an iridescent that newer users can't easily get and are afraid to try. Lowering the differences between rarities gives easier access to a consistent level of aura reading, so would be a more appealing prospect for newer players and soloQ to bring.
Why nerf Blood Amber? Blood Amber tends to be a keys 1 trick, and is a very potent ability for new players vs. newer killers, and the main point here is to stress that the other abilities of the key are actually very good for soloQ. The Blood Stone has been added as a weaker variant; given that we are improving keys generally to be much better for hatch, we want to diminish killercaura reading as the only star of keys. Blood Amber is also a reason the Skeleton Key is getting nerfed as well. The ability to read the killers aura at tiles is strong, but it's also a diminishing returns deal, where once you know checkspots and have the experience, the ability to reveal the killer's aura doesn't really make a difference. As such we are making killer aura reveal less appealing overall, and removing Blood Amber as being keys 1 trick, and pushing other aura reading abilities as the keys focus.
The aim with providing the broken key as a pure aura key in conjunction with the basekit hatch auras is to make keys a viable option to genuinely try and escape. The more rare keys will obviously be more useful after the hatch is closed, but the aura reading helps massively when the hatch is no longer telegraphing its location via sound.
I've added some quality of life aspects to add-ons, such as making the Eroded Token and Scratched Pearl add-ons Brown to give some basic options to make even a Broken key a decent little tool. I've added the Silver Chain as a QoL add-on to make keys less timing reliant for players who want to avoid that.
With these changes I think keys become generally better for newer players to use.
See Also:
Full discussion on the issues with maps and keys here:
Maps sister thread:
Left Behind buff to accompany this set of changes:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/433006/left-behind-buff-to-be-anti-4k-slug
Comments
fixing maps makes killer totem builds more irrelevant than what they already are. you'd need to bring old undying back where hex takes 5 times to die. even than, map that detect totems around the map will decimate any hex build within 30 seconds of the match. maybe if a block effect is put where hex totems have protecting blocking effect for 30 seconds every time a hex gets cleansed.
toning down radius of maps makes detective hutch to 4 meters makes detective hutch stronger without changing anything related to it nuking hexes.
I think sole purpose of maps is to find hatch in late game because hatch was super strong before since you could finish 4/5 gens, have one person suicide and then just spam map to find hatch super quick. a key had no counter-play so everyone would instant jump through hatch in the killer face. now they're kinda bad because hatch is bad.
I agree that hex totems are a concern, and I've tried to add mechanics to address that issue.
It's already the case that maps are too good vs. Hexes, but it's not really a noticable issue cause no one uses maps. I dont think either of us would disagree that just because hexes exists and are not great, it doesn't make it a good idea to keep maps so they suck and no one uses them...
To address that issue, I have instead made all maps function the same at base in regards to what they track, they can track dull totems, but not hex totems at base. Map auras do not reveal hex totems unless: -
In this way, the maximum range you can get to track a hex totem in this arrangement is 10m if you take the odd stamp, and the beauty of this is this can be reduced further of its a problem. Maybe 40%, 30%, 25%, etc, etc.
This is why I feel it should have a new purpose, since they are good for helping new players find their way around.
Maps are actually good for new and soloQ players, and is one of the reasons why I added windows and pallets as an optional aura add-on.
This version would be a much healthier version of WoO that actually helps a player learn the game instead of having the auto pilot mode. Reduces WoO in the meta, since the user has another option to the same ability.
This is a terrible idea in every way, but the totem part is especially egregious considering how often they spawn literally next to generators and hooks.
Thanks for the insightful and informative feedback!
In respect to finding and tracking generators, maps are completely outclassed and made irrelevant by deja Vu, used frequently by all skill levels. It breaks 3gens and gives repair speed AND is always active, no charges needed.
For hex builds, it's pointless to bring a build with a map to counter totems because hexes are awful and the few good ones have built in tracking for survivors (noed, plaything, that one dracula hex). There's little more deflating than brining a map with anti totem perks just have it wasted by a killer bringing pain res, pop, corrupt, deadlock.
Even with these changes, it is not worth bringing any map in place of a good tool box or medkit for objective value, nor are maps as fun as bringing a flashlight.
I guess the brown map would be nice for finding a spot for a boon? A huge time waste in my opinion.
Hmm... fair enough, though I feel like you're looking at it through the lens of higher level player, which is not the target player for these changes. Auras fundamentally aren't good for high skilled survivors of SWFs... but for low level players a perk like Kindred is God tier.
I would personally think a map is quite good for newer players if you get the effects of: -
All of that to me seems a pretty good deal off a single item with 1 add-on for a newer player. It also frees up their perk slots to take stronger things like Lithe, Off The Record, Prove Thyself and We'll Make It, instead of having to take the equivalent aura perks.
Higher skilled players tend scoff at Hex's because they consider hex's easy to deal with. However even ones like Huntress Lullaby, Ruin and Third Seal can and do absolutely decimate a newbie team. Just Devour Hope with Undying is absolutely brutal for low level players to handle if they are unfamiliar with totems spawns... which is very common. I don't think you'll find too many new players that'll consider these easy to deal with.
So to be honest, I do think your assessment is looking at it from the wrong perspective.
I don’t think we should get a grey map. It would just be another trashy item, which nobody needs/wants.
Maps should work without charges and they should always show the auras without having to charge them. Then they would be good.
Killer belongings should be a part of all maps and not be split up into parts. I don’t think maps can be too good and there should be a reason to equip it over other items.
Do you always see the aura of 3 generators? The part with at the start the trial confuses me.
8 meter range is too small. What is the point of revealing the gates location in an 8m range? It should be something like 32m.
The hatch aura should be part of the map instead of keys, because maps always show structures and keys show auras of characters. Edit: After reading over your key suggestions, it should be part of both.
The WOO addon for maps is nice.
Thanks for the feedback!
I'm not convinced a map is trash myself. It offers some very good aura reading, especially for a newer player. The problem for me when I was new was I was unable to get them easily in the blood web. When I did, because they were a "rare" item, I didn't want to waste them, so I didn't really use them. If you can acquire a cheap map easily that you'd not really have to worry about losing it, I would have definitely used them more when I was learning DBD.
It'd also allow new players to try boons reliably rather than having to screw around with perks to let them even try…
I dunno... I find the channel quite engaging as a quick reminder ability. Having permanent auras makes the map uninteractive and pretty boring... my personal preference is without a perma aura, and an active use ability, especially with the WoO add on. I'd like this a lot as the non dumb version of WoO.
Just to check (and I'm genuinely asking), have you tried using the maps? Cause this makes it sound like you haven't? So just to clean up any confusion...
The range for maps is not the range the aura is revealed, it's the range at which the object is scouted. Once scouted it is always revealed whenever you Channel the map, so the aura is global once it is discovered.
This is why the range is 8m, cause once you pass by an object within 8m it is permanently known to you and revealed globally when you channel.
You're not wrong, but the reason I moved this to keys is having it on maps doesn't really serve much purpose. Remember you track the hatch when you are within 8m of it, so with that in mind: -
For these reasons I feel like the key with its straight AoE reveal around the survivor coupled with ots ability to open the hatch actually makes the hatch aura fit the key much better.
If that is how maps currently work, then this explains a lot and why the aura reveal was so lackluster whenever I used them. Still the range should be bigger in my opinion (at least 12m).
Thanks for explaining.
I have used them in boon builds, but they haven’t work that well. Often they only revealed one or two totems in a match.
I always thought, they reveal the aura of stuff in a certain range. I haven’t know, that you have to scout things first. The hatch should still be part of the map, but just get revealed map wide.
Alright, I see the case you're making here. Personally, I would love to see maps giga buffed to be made useful even in higher skill brackets, not just lower. I would take your buffs a step further and propose that your new maps don't require any charges nor need to be "channeled". They should always show all auras at set distance of 32 meters (synergizing with open handed) that they've tracked, as long as the map is held. I would make them always be dropped after any health state loss but can be picked back up.
It may seem strong at first until you realize how many perks outclass the current maps in every way, and these proposed changes would just make them an alternative to those perks, with the drawback being you cannot bring a toolbox medkit or flashlight.
Maps could be useful in further bridging the gap between the info shared with swf vs solo, it just sucks that they would have to sacrifice bringing in a stronger item.
I think your suggestions are great!
Your ideas to make it a more objective focused item are wonderful <3
Also those complaining aggressively about dull totems, bloodstained map is currently in full circulation on those who played frequently back then, they track them baseline and very easily. I always bring one if I'm doing a totem build, it's nothing new.
Thanking you!
I too like to play quirky builds, and agree using a map to find totems for a totem build beats the heck out of literally any perk you can take 😁
The blood map is plain GOATed. I have a bunch, and it's silly how good that map is 😅