Some perk changes for both sides

Comments

• Langweilig

  October 4, 2024

  @SoGo what do you think?
• Skillfulstone

  October 5, 2024

  Now THIS is how perks should be treated: Bad/too niche perks buffed/reworked to be useful without being utterly busted, which encourages variety instead of reducing it.
• CrossTheSholf

  October 5, 2024

  BHVR HIRE THIS MAN
• Xernoton

  October 5, 2024

  I'm not sure about Parental Guidance. You are not really supposed to escape a chase so easy. Combine this with Smash Hit and you can camp pallets and pretty always get away. It would also hurt weaker killers way more because they are usually the ones you can actually stun.

  Adrenaline's healing effect was nerfed because it incentivised slugging instead of hooking. That does not need to make a comeback. Buff the duration of the speed boost instead. Make it 6-7 seconds or 200% movement speed.

  I don't like the idea of Dark Theory applying hindered to the killer. Again, this wouldn't do much against any of the stronger killers (other than Plague) but it would hit M1 killers pretty hard. So it targets the wrong end if the tier list. These are also typically the killers that cannot spare the time to look for the totem.

  I'm on the fence about Shadow Step as well. On one hand it would be pretty neat to be that stealthy on the other hand it would mean that a killer has to break the totem each and every time before engaging in a chase. This would be pretty harsh on maps with multiple floors.

  I'm against the Any Means Necessary buff. It's already a decent perk and this would again do very little against stronger killers because you don't get to stun them, while allowing you to camp pallets and create resources out of nothing against weaker killers, who already struggled with actual pallet.

  I'm not sure about Breakout. I already consider it an unhealthy perk, so anything to buff the effect wouldn't be good in my opinion.

  The Finesse buff is probably fine but I would test it first before saying anything more. It's already a pretty good perk.

  I have a different idea for Distortion. Start the trial with 3 stacks but only recover stacks when hooked. You get 2-3 stacks for getting hooked and another for every 15 seconds (could be less but I would test it like this first) the killer spends within 20 metres of the hook. The idea is to make it impossible for that survivor to disappear the entire match (each hook you don't take means one more hook on someone else, so you can really screw over your team with this perk) while also making it more effective against camping killers.

  I'm pretty sure you mistyped the stun duration for Head On. 30 seconds would be a little much. 😅 Other than that I quite like it.

  I heavily disagree with the idea for MfT. The MfT situation was terrible and we do not need a repeat of that in any way, shape or form. I'd rather they gave MfT a completely different effect. Haste is simply too fickle to balance properly.

  I'm not a huge fan of permanently suppressing scratch marks even on No Mither. The killer role is already quite dependent on sound clues and this would only hit people that play without a headset or suffer any form of hearing disability.

  Wouldn't that be a pretty strong nerf to Poised? If your scratch marks were only invisible within a 9m range of the gen and only for 14 seconds (+ 3 seconds lingering) that would make it weaker than it is now since you get to keep it for the duration no matter where you run.

  I don't like your idea for Reassurance. Pausing struggle skill checks is fine but there is a reason it can only be used once per hook state. You're not supposed to be on that hook for so long no matter the reason. Increase the activation range so that you can use it without entering the basement instead. That should be fine.

  I can't put my finger on it but something about Repressed Alliance gaining a stack every 30 seconds sounds off to me. Make it 40 seconds and test it that way. Other than that I like the idea.

  Saboteur sounds nice except for the part about toolboxes. The sabo speed of toolboxes is already pretty fast, so buffing it would only lead to more situations like with Alex' toolbox where you can always sabo the hook without any issue. Sabo plays are supposed to be risky and situational because the payoff is so huge.

  I think Slippery Meat should have a completely different effect. It's only good for luck offering SWFs and that is pretty horrible to play against already. This buff wouldn't make it much better for normal use.

  I would rather not see a return of the vault speed build. So I don't think Spine Chill should get that part back. It would also lead to very awkward situations where a killer would try not to look in your direction during a chase.

  For Tenacity I'm not a huge fan of it making you completely silent. It's so damn confusing each time you down a survivor and they glitch around and end up being silent too (we already had that as a glitch and it seemed to make a return a few months ago). Activate the reduction of sound 5 seconds after the down and I'm fine with it being 100%. Or better yet BHVR fix this weird glitching around after a down (it has been in the game for 2+ years now).

  We'll Make It is already a great perk. It doesn't need a buff.

  I think Wicked should simply work on both hook stages. It's quite situational already so that should be fine.

  Wiretap should be activated after 33% and that's it. I'm not a fan of it having 2 stacks.

  The other survivor perks I didn't mention, I am completely fine with. I'll look over the killer perk changes later.
• Langweilig

  October 5, 2024

  @Skillfulstone said:

  Now THIS is how perks should be treated: Bad/too niche perks buffed/reworked to be useful without being utterly busted, which encourages variety instead of reducing it.

  @CrossTheSholf said:

  BHVR HIRE THIS MAN

  Thanks. I would if I could XD.
• UndeddJester

  October 5, 2024

  @Xernoton said:

  I'm not sure about Parental Guidance. You are not really supposed to escape a chase so easy. Combine this with Smash Hit and you can camp pallets and pretty always get away. It would also hurt weaker killers way more because they are usually the ones you can actually stun.

  Adrenaline's healing effect was nerfed because it incentivised slugging instead of hooking. That does not need to make a comeback. Buff the duration of the speed boost instead. Make it 6-7 seconds or 200% movement speed.

  I don't like the idea of Dark Theory applying hindered to the killer. Again, this wouldn't do much against any of the stronger killers (other than Plague) but it would hit M1 killers pretty hard. So it targets the wrong end if the tier list. These are also typically the killers that cannot spare the time to look for the totem.

  I'm on the fence about Shadow Step as well. On one hand it would be pretty neat to be that stealthy on the other hand it would mean that a killer has to break the totem each and every time before engaging in a chase. This would be pretty harsh on maps with multiple floors.

  I'm against the Any Means Necessary buff. It's already a decent perk and this would again do very little against stronger killers because you don't get to stun them, while allowing you to camp pallets and create resources out of nothing against weaker killers, who already struggled with actual pallet.

  I'm not sure about Breakout. I already consider it an unhealthy perk, so anything to buff the effect wouldn't be good in my opinion.

  The Finesse buff is probably fine but I would test it first before saying anything more. It's already a pretty good perk.

  I have a different idea for Distortion. Start the trial with 3 stacks but only recover stacks when hooked. You get 2-3 stacks for getting hooked and another for every 15 seconds (could be less but I would test it like this first) the killer spends within 20 metres of the hook. The idea is to make it impossible for that survivor to disappear the entire match (each hook you don't take means one more hook on someone else, so you can really screw over your team with this perk) while also making it more effective against camping killers.

  I'm pretty sure you mistyped the stun duration for Head On. 30 seconds would be a little much. 😅 Other than that I quite like it.

  I heavily disagree with the idea for MfT. The MfT situation was terrible and we do not need a repeat of that in any way, shape or form. I'd rather they gave MfT a completely different effect. Haste is simply too fickle to balance properly.

  I'm not a huge fan of permanently suppressing scratch marks even on No Mither. The killer role is already quite dependent on sound clues and this would only hit people that play without a headset or suffer any form of hearing disability.

  Wouldn't that be a pretty strong nerf to Poised? If your scratch marks were only invisible within a 9m range of the gen and only for 14 seconds (+ 3 seconds lingering) that would make it weaker than it is now since you get to keep it for the duration no matter where you run.

  I don't like your idea for Reassurance. Pausing struggle skill checks is fine but there is a reason it can only be used once per hook state. You're not supposed to be on that hook for so long no matter the reason. Increase the activation range so that you can use it without entering the basement instead. That should be fine.

  I can't put my finger on it but something about Repressed Alliance gaining a stack every 30 seconds sounds off to me. Make it 40 seconds and test it that way. Other than that I like the idea.

  Saboteur sounds nice except for the part about toolboxes. The sabo speed of toolboxes is already pretty fast, so buffing it would only lead to more situations like with Alex' toolbox where you can always sabo the hook without any issue. Sabo plays are supposed to be risky and situational because the payoff is so huge.

  I think Slippery Meat should have a completely different effect. It's only good for luck offering SWFs and that is pretty horrible to play against already. This buff wouldn't make it much better for normal use.

  I would rather not see a return of the vault speed build. So I don't think Spine Chill should get that part back. It would also lead to very awkward situations where a killer would try not to look in your direction during a chase.

  For Tenacity I'm not a huge fan of it making you completely silent. It's so damn confusing each time you down a survivor and they glitch around and end up being silent too (we already had that as a glitch and it seemed to make a return a few months ago). Activate the reduction of sound 5 seconds after the down and I'm fine with it being 100%. Or better yet BHVR fix this weird glitching around after a down (it has been in the game for 2+ years now).

  We'll Make It is already a great perk. It doesn't need a buff.

  I think Wicked should simply work on both hook stages. It's quite situational already so that should be fine.

  Wiretap should be activated after 33% and that's it. I'm not a fan of it having 2 stacks.

  The other survivor perks I didn't mention, I am completely fine with. I'll look over the killer perk changes later.

  Xernoton? Freddy avatar? What!?

  Regarding OP:

  There is so much there, it'd take me half a day to go through everything. Pretty much agree with Xernonton.

  Stand out to me is the Ace in the Hole Basekit buff. I like that suggestion a lot....

  For a new effect, maybe something like:

  Once per trial, you can trigger this perk while searching/rummaging a chest. The next item pulled from this chest will be ultra rare or have an ultra rare add-on. It's basically a guaranteed: -

  • Medkit: Gel Dressing or Syringe (Pharmacy buff)
  • Toolbox: Brand New Part (Scavenger buff)
  • Flashlight: Odd Bulb (Residual Manifest buff)
  • Map: Iri, gives that sweet totem tracking vs. Devour Hope and Pentimento.
  • Key: Iri, no more broken keys cucking you for hatch.

  I don't think any of this is too strong since you are having to go and find a chest and spend the time opening it.

  For medkits you can't guarantee a syringe, so that atill seems fine.

  For toolboxes with the BNP, it takes more time to find and open the chest and bring it back to the gen than it does to just keep repairing, and you're also running Scavenger which can hurt your repair timings.

  Other items aren't oppressive I feel. I feel this gives Ace in the Hole genuine usefulness in a looter build.
• Langweilig

  October 5, 2024

  @Xernoton said:

  I'm not sure about Parental Guidance. You are not really supposed to escape a chase so easy. Combine this with Smash Hit and you can camp pallets and pretty always get away. It would also hurt weaker killers way more because they are usually the ones you can actually stun.

  Adrenaline's healing effect was nerfed because it incentivised slugging instead of hooking. That does not need to make a comeback. Buff the duration of the speed boost instead. Make it 6-7 seconds or 200% movement speed.

  I don't like the idea of Dark Theory applying hindered to the killer. Again, this wouldn't do much against any of the stronger killers (other than Plague) but it would hit M1 killers pretty hard. So it targets the wrong end if the tier list. These are also typically the killers that cannot spare the time to look for the totem.

  I'm on the fence about Shadow Step as well. On one hand it would be pretty neat to be that stealthy on the other hand it would mean that a killer has to break the totem each and every time before engaging in a chase. This would be pretty harsh on maps with multiple floors.

  I'm against the Any Means Necessary buff. It's already a decent perk and this would again do very little against stronger killers because you don't get to stun them, while allowing you to camp pallets and create resources out of nothing against weaker killers, who already struggled with actual pallet.

  I'm not sure about Breakout. I already consider it an unhealthy perk, so anything to buff the effect wouldn't be good in my opinion.

  The Finesse buff is probably fine but I would test it first before saying anything more. It's already a pretty good perk.

  I have a different idea for Distortion. Start the trial with 3 stacks but only recover stacks when hooked. You get 2-3 stacks for getting hooked and another for every 15 seconds (could be less but I would test it like this first) the killer spends within 20 metres of the hook. The idea is to make it impossible for that survivor to disappear the entire match (each hook you don't take means one more hook on someone else, so you can really screw over your team with this perk) while also making it more effective against camping killers.

  I'm pretty sure you mistyped the stun duration for Head On. 30 seconds would be a little much. 😅 Other than that I quite like it.

  I heavily disagree with the idea for MfT. The MfT situation was terrible and we do not need a repeat of that in any way, shape or form. I'd rather they gave MfT a completely different effect. Haste is simply too fickle to balance properly.

  I'm not a huge fan of permanently suppressing scratch marks even on No Mither. The killer role is already quite dependent on sound clues and this would only hit people that play without a headset or suffer any form of hearing disability.

  Wouldn't that be a pretty strong nerf to Poised? If your scratch marks were only invisible within a 9m range of the gen and only for 14 seconds (+ 3 seconds lingering) that would make it weaker than it is now since you get to keep it for the duration no matter where you run.

  I don't like your idea for Reassurance. Pausing struggle skill checks is fine but there is a reason it can only be used once per hook state. You're not supposed to be on that hook for so long no matter the reason. Increase the activation range so that you can use it without entering the basement instead. That should be fine.

  I can't put my finger on it but something about Repressed Alliance gaining a stack every 30 seconds sounds off to me. Make it 40 seconds and test it that way. Other than that I like the idea.

  Saboteur sounds nice except for the part about toolboxes. The sabo speed of toolboxes is already pretty fast, so buffing it would only lead to more situations like with Alex' toolbox where you can always sabo the hook without any issue. Sabo plays are supposed to be risky and situational because the payoff is so huge.

  I think Slippery Meat should have a completely different effect. It's only good for luck offering SWFs and that is pretty horrible to play against already. This buff wouldn't make it much better for normal use.

  I would rather not see a return of the vault speed build. So I don't think Spine Chill should get that part back. It would also lead to very awkward situations where a killer would try not to look in your direction during a chase.

  For Tenacity I'm not a huge fan of it making you completely silent. It's so damn confusing each time you down a survivor and they glitch around and end up being silent too (we already had that as a glitch and it seemed to make a return a few months ago). Activate the reduction of sound 5 seconds after the down and I'm fine with it being 100%. Or better yet BHVR fix this weird glitching around after a down (it has been in the game for 2+ years now).

  We'll Make It is already a great perk. It doesn't need a buff.

  I think Wicked should simply work on both hook stages. It's quite situational already so that should be fine.

  Wiretap should be activated after 33% and that's it. I'm not a fan of it having 2 stacks.

  The other survivor perks I didn't mention, I am completely fine with. I'll look over the killer perk changes later.

  Thanks for the detailed feedback.

  About the weaker killer argument you bring a lot, shure you have to consider it, but not being able to buff anything because of them would mean you can never buff anything. This is a different problem and they should focus on buffing the weaker killers to make them all a lot more even to the stronger ones.

  Parental guidance: Stunning the killer is already very hard, so I think this one deserves to be better. I mostly play this perk with head on and either the killer sees me immediately again or hears my foot steps and when I finally manage to hide, then the perk runs out to too early. What do you think would be a fair number? (10s would be too little in my opinion)

  Adrenaline: I extremely disliked the adrenaline nerf. What logic is this; We have an endgame perk that activates only once and when you get there it doesn’t activate. Adrenaline was fair before the nerf, just the pick rate was a bit too high, which could make it frustrating sometimes (we also have so many killers perks that are frustrating too). When somebody reaches endgame they should get their heal, that’s the whole purpose of this perk.

  Shadow step: I can understand it, but you can still see pools of blood. I don’t think it hiding footsteps would be too much, but I can’t test it myself to find out, how it plays out. This is actually the only boon I would say that is in a good spot.

  Dark theory: I struggled between giving it more haste or giving the killer hindered and I found giving the killer hindered a lot more useful. So you think everything except of the hindered is fine? I think this perk needs to get tested to find out wether it’s to strong or still not good enough with it.

  Head on: Yeah I mistyped it to 30s, I actually meant 3s.

  Any means necessary: Do you really consider party pallets to be that good? Hitting them is quite hard and winning against pallet campers with party pallets was never really hard. With this perk you would have to set them up first and it is only one, that you get after being chased for a long time. You would probably also only get to use one of them per match, it does not sound that good to me to be honest.

  MFT: So let me start with boon dark theory, nobody plays it for 2 reasons the 2% haste is too low and it is a boon. Now we also have far more and more reliable anti exhaustion perks, which need to have some use. The thing is 3% wasn’t super strong either, but yeah there I actually also bring the weak killer argument, which only made them unfun. In my opinion the right nerf they should have been reducing the haste or removing the endurance, not making it almost impossible to get the effect. It was one of my favorite perks, because it made playing survivor less about bad ping and learning looping was more fun. Also having more exhaustion perks that aren’t just 50% speed for 3s would be cool.

  No mither: Well with this perk, when you are found, you are dead, so getting found more difficult means you are less likely dead (that’s my reason). I agree with you even tho l don’t want to.

  Breakout: I don’t consider it unhealthy to be fair, I tried to remove the frustration I have with this perk a bit, which is the range. I reduced the range from 7 to 6 so it still only 1m more than it is in live.

  Reassurance: “Pausing struggle skill checks is fine”- That was already part of the perk. “but there is a reason it can only be used once per hook state. You're not supposed to be on that hook for so long no matter the reason.”- Why not? It supposed to counter camping annd the killer can just keep chasing someone else if he sees the survivor glo and eventually the antiacmp would fill up the bar too. “Increase the activation range so that you can use it without entering the basement instead. That should be fine.”- I did increase the range.

  Repressed alliance: Maybe I made it a bit too fast to get. 40s would be fine, the stacks is the main part I wanted. I change it to 40s

  Saboteur: I can understand it. Just to make my reason a bit more clear; When playing it, it always feels like it should have some effect on toolboxes and I wanted a perk that increases sabo speeds for a long time.

  Poised: Maybe I need your help to write it right. My idea was making it work like chucky’s batteries included and keep the old effects like they were. This means whenever in a 9m radius of a completed generator you would be immune to aura reading, leave no scratch marks and leave no pools of blood. So to answer your question it should not be a nerf. The numbers of the new effect can be changed, I just needed something to start with.

  Wiretab: I wanted to place multiple ones and be ble to recharge it while another one is placed.

  We’ll make it does not need- true, but why not?

  Spine chill: Well there we both just want different things. I for my part did not play back then, where it was popular, but currently it is completly useless, more useless than calm spirit, which is difficult. I kept the current activation requirements and not the ones from the past, I think the major different things would be; it does not work through walls and when the killer is undetectable and I also didn’t make it as high (it was 10%→ 8%)

  Slippery meat: Shure, but thisway it could also be good in not swfs.

  Should I add to the status effect part luck. I would make luck affect chests for better items.

  Tenacity: I know what you mean and that it activates after some seconds would be a good idea. Would probably make it delay the silent effect by 2-3s, instead of 5s, but I’m also I shure wether or not this would kill this perk.

  Edit: I forgot distortion: Your idea seems better than what the devs are going to do, so I would take this one as well👍

  I’m looking forward to the killer changes feedback.
• Langweilig

  October 5, 2024

  @UndeddJester said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3812886#Comment_3812886

  Xernoton? Freddy avatar? What!?

  Regarding OP:

  There is so much there, it'd take me half a day to go through everything. Pretty much agree with Xernonton.

  Stand out to me is the Ace in the Hole Basekit buff. I like that suggestion a lot....

  For a new effect, maybe something like:

  Once per trial, you can trigger this perk while searching/rummaging a chest. The next item pulled from this chest will be ultra rare or have an ultra rare add-on. It's basically a guaranteed: -

  • Medkit: Gel Dressing or Syringe (Pharmacy buff)
  • Toolbox: Brand New Part (Scavenger buff)
  • Flashlight: Odd Bulb (Residual Manifest buff)
  • Map: Iri, gives that sweet totem tracking vs. Devour Hope and Pentimento.
  • Key: Iri, no more broken keys cucking you for hatch.

  I don't think any of this is too strong since you are having to go and find a chest and spend the time opening it.

  For medkits you can't guarantee a syringe, so that atill seems fine.

  For toolboxes with the BNP, it takes more time to find and open the chest and bring it back to the gen than it does to just keep repairing, and you're also running Scavenger which can hurt your repair timings.

  Other items aren't oppressive I feel. I feel this gives Ace in the Hole genuine usefulness in a looter build.

  Good idea! I agree with what you say. It would be funny if they introduced more iri items for this perk, but I would not like if it were just higher numbers, they would need to have something unique.
• Langweilig

  October 5, 2024

  @TinyTenzin said:

  Killer perk suggestions
  Insidious: agree!
  Monitor and abuse: I dont get this. Not your suggsetion, this perk in general. Where and when do you use this? what for? im really curious.
  Hex perks: I will skip all of these. Im sure you made good thoughts about this, but hex perks are just not for me so i can not talk about them. I dislike how they are so situational, most of time i use hex, survivors spawn right close to them. Only hex i sometimes use is undying&pentimento combo.
  Bloodhound : Nice one! good suggestion!

  Beast of prey: My former killer main in my inside love this! but i also play survivor alot, red stain is so important for loops, this would skyrocket killrates in a bad way.

  Call of Brine : I agree ofc, gen regression perks have been nerfed too hard, while we still install ways for gen speeds. It so unfair. this also count for overcharge

  Deerstalker: Giving it additional stealth affect? i like this! but a little worried about slug camping meta XD would need to see in some PTB

  Hangmans Trick: You say "again" is this how it was before? I think this is great!

  Shadowborn Im not from a DBD period where everything was dark and gritty, i start playing this game around 2021 may or april. I dont like looking at old videos for DBD because i really like graphic in this game, so polish and all that. So no for this from me.

  Batteries included: I dig it. I alredy like its initial buff after they nerfed it to ground, but could be little better, yes.

  Territorial Imperative: Again a little back and forth for this one.. New huntress players use this, right? because mid mmr and high mmr survivors alredy have their item, they dont use basement chest (at least i dont) so only new players will. It will probably negatively effect new player experience, where new player killers experience alredy easy matches. But i would be curios, for seeing if this changes people way of playing, maybe i underestimate how high mmr people go to basement. Basement perks are niche on both side.

  Whispers: GOOD!.. it not being directional does more confuse you than be useful, survivor being warned is fine too, as otherwise there is no way of knowing killer can "hear" your position.

  Undone: actually part yes and part no for this one. I again think of new players, 6 tokens is much. Like you said, survivors almost never miss skill checks. But the new survivors do, So it only used in low mmr. The cooldown is unneccessary though, i agree get rid of it.

  Septic touch: Little counter to windows, but not over top. I agree with this suggestion! Maybe 30 seconds a little mutch, but such numbers would be evaluate in PTB.

  Thrilling tremors: Oh this one i used A LOT when i was new player lol. It was my personal meta and i never get why people say it bad after i experience how the cooldown really feel. You can no longer wait it out before pick up in mid or high mmr lol. So yes, cooldown removal would make it perfect.

  Thanathaphobia: was this not how it was originally before it got nerf? I would agree but i dont see devs would do this.

  Merciless storm: Interesting suggestion, i like this alot.

  Overwhelming presence: I agree!

  Shattered hope: This would create so mutch trouble with survivor tome challenge, you alredy combat other survivor when having to cleanse or bless dull totem for challenge. Adding killer in competition will make this impossible. Even though it would be fun to do as killer aswell. I think shattered hope better remain as is.

  Unnerving presence: I agree about feeling, it actually do get easyer to hit skill checks lol. So good suggestion.

  STBFL: They nerf it and give special attack condition only because of demo, blight and idk who else. Not many others. While robbing from m1 killers that really need it. So yes, please make it basic attacks again @devs

  Gift of pain: Another case where i dont know enough, never use it, never go against it. But on behalf of sloppy, yes, i too thought it was overnerfed. But sloppy rise in use again recently and it really not that bad, so on behalf on sloppy no thanks. But this? again i dont know enough, could be try in PTB.

  Alien instinct I never understand perks that show auras for most far away survivor.. why?.. at least your suggestion give it some useful addition lol.

  Dissolution: Yes agree, it basicly random perk, not very usefull right now. 3 seconds so unneccessary.

  Ok so for thrill of the hunt and retribution you say they dont become hexes anymore? correct? i like this if so.

  Trail of torment: I will just quote you XD

  Does probably not need it, but it would also not hurt

  Tinkerer: For some reason i was first "no" but if i fine with trail why would this be issiue? i think because the feeling being interrupted by a sneaky killer when you almost done with gen is just worse. But it not really stronger than trail lol. So yes for gameplay purpose, no for feeling XD

  Status effect changes:

  • "Blindness hides the auras of killer objectives as well " > agree!
  • "Oblivious makes you unable to hear lullabies and you don’t see it in the visible heart beat sensor." TOTALLY agree!

  Took mutch time for response, some ideas i really like, some i dont. Just like i expected. Kudos for you for doing this, i hope at least some suggestion make it to developers tables. If you wish we can discuss some of these in DM, so this does not go out of bound for thread.

  Monitor & Abuse

  This perk is for making reading the terror radius more difficult and to confuse someone with that. Outside it decreases your terror radius by 8+(new 4m), which makes survivors think you are faster away than you are and it increases you terror radius by 8+4m in chase which makes you feel like the killer is closer than he really is.

  Beast of prey

  … would not be op in my opinion, but strong. On the other hand we have undetectable killers, addons and perk, that do the exact same thing which aren’t op either. Maybe it should have some sort of condition, if you have an idea for that let me now.

  Yes hangman’s trick once was all hooks, I can’t say wether or not it included scotch hooks so. Sadly it got nerfed for no good reason.

  Well shadowborn was just an idea; how it would be executed is up to the devs, but you could always get rid of it by finding and cleansing the hex so.

  Batteries included

  When did they buff it? I only remember they reverted the nerf. My idea would just give it some value near gens that are being worked on.

  Deerstalker

  Well the my idea was trying to find effects that synergies with its current effect and it already was a slugging perk, maybe permanent oblivious is a bit too much around a slugged survivor. How would you make it fairer?

  Territorial imperative

  I’m mixed what to answer. On one hand the conditions make an interesting and potentially good perk extremely bad, but it could also be frustrating to play against. I think a wait for a bit more feedback on this one.

  Undone

  I would argue that new players won’t even have access to this perk and the killer: Unknown. They probably also won’t know about this perk until they are no longer new and I don’t think they miss that many skill checks that this perk will become too good.

  Thanathaphobia

  This version that I suggest was one of its weaker forms like, but the stronger form which lead to this nerf was with 5,5% and making it 4% it probably be fine.

  Shattered hope

  Interesting perspective, but I don’t think this speaks against this perk. The major reason why I want to change it is, because I want killers to be able to break boon totems basekit to also buff boons, so now this perk would need a new effect.

  Gift of pain

  …is a scorche hook perk, which gives you those two effects after the unhook. I think it ending a scourge hook perk should make it better than sloppy, therefore permanent mangled and hemorrhage.

  Yes Thrill of the hunt and retribution no longer spawn a hex, but can still help them out.

  Thanks for the detailed feedback, I really appreciate it. If I forgot something I should have responded to please tell me. I respond to the survivor perks later.
• Langweilig

  October 5, 2024

  @TinyTenzin said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3813069#Comment_3813069

  Monitor & Abuse: Oh so it same style perk like that plague one that shifts your TR to survivor, just more consistent.
  

  Beast of prey: What add ons do hide red stain? Sometimes you have oblivious things yes, but they all have cooldown, ghostface can do hiding red stain on loops very well, but he only one. I think it need cooldown or activation condition, maybe for each first hook on survivor, when you START chase it activates for reasonable amount of time. Only on chase start, not before so it dont get waste. This encourage spreading hooks and make chase easyer.

  Shadowborn : Ijust dont like look of old DBD graphic very mutch and how dark everything was. If it like dredge darkness then it better imo

  Batteries included: oh maybe they only do revert it. I just remember shaking my head over how fast this got nerfed when compared to Dead hard and MFT.

  Deerstalker: i mean maybe there will not be slug camping meta, as people still can easyly do gens. bleedout even slower than hook timer when people get camp, so probably not real concern for that one. If still is, i would just slap set period on it. Not too low though, 40 or 50 second, but again people then can just do gens if they know. So maybe it dont need condition. Would be case for PTB to see.

  Territorial imperative: yes maybe concern is not so bad just like with deerstalker.

  Undone: When i first buy DBD, unknown was not here. I buy ultimate edition which gave all chapter (unlicensed) characters up to trickster and yun jin. (and somehow i also got pig, i dont remember i bought pig) So i have big collection to choose for. My first was drawn to Legion, which would be my main as low mmr new killer. But i think definitly possible for new players to start with unknown especcially when he also get included in Bundle later on. (if he not alredy)

  Thanathaphobia: Then i hope devs consider this, because thana actually encourage spread pressure instead of focusing on one. (just for record, i not belong to group that says tunneling should be punished, i find valid strategy. But i agree it bad gameplay design so anything encouraging to not tunnel should be pushed and not nerfed, just like they did with pain res.)

  Shattered hope : Tomes is main reason why i still play, my aim to complete all of them, i do still enjoy gameplay loop itself, but without "missions" i dont see point lol. And i really dont like these where you need to combat objective with other players, probably im minority here.

  Gift of pain: Well i know it scourge hook perk, i just never bother to use it when i read description 1 time. This probably with many other players because i never see it either. So buff is justified anyway. Permanent is a little mutch though.

  Thrill and Retribution no longer being Hex is so overdue. Hex alredy is bad perks for how high risk you have, these 2 dont even compare to some non-hex perk they so weak. But i know they will not do thrill, they dont want Bloodpoint perks, same reason why they nerf BBQ and the david perk.

  Gift of pain: Oh well I forgot to change the mangled and hemorrhage back in the right way, both would be permanent until you get healed fully healed. I have to figure out how to rewrite that.

  Shattered hope: I don’t think it will hinder you much, cause there are so many other quest that aren’t distroying totems and l doubt many people will play this perk.

  Monitor & Abuse is partly like the perk from plague, but also not. It does only make your own terror radius smaller and bigger depending on being in chase. It is just to confuse like the plague perk and to give you a bit of stealth.

  Shadowborn: I would make it different than old dbd and nightfall from dredge. It would make everything a bit darker and make that the further you look you see only outlines of structures and characters until you see nothing (just like real fog and not the clouds we have as fog).

  Beast of prey: We have perks like trail of tourment, tinkerer and many more, we have addons on killers like Wesker or was it nemesis ……where you become undetectable after using the syringe or deo, we have killer powers that make you undetectable like Ghosty, Chucky, Onryo, Myers … All the stuff with undetectable removes the red stain, but they also remove aura reading on the killer and remove the terror radius. I think this perk would be fair since you still hear the terror radius and in most cases you can see the killer over loops or they have sound clues.

  Deerstalker: I will limit the oblivious effect somehow, I have to find out how to rewrite it first.

  Undone: Well even when new players would have him, I wouldn’t say it would hurt new players much more than it does right now since it isn’t played right now at all, because survivors don’t miss many skill checks even when you play doctor it isn’t much (I tried that many times). I tried to keep the old effect in tact while making it less reliant on survivors missing by gaining tokens by normal skill checks.
• Ohyakno

  October 5, 2024

  Too much self healing and bad powercreep in general.
• Langweilig

  October 5, 2024

  @TinyTenzin said:

  (My first response was too big, so i split up survivor and killer perks)
  
  Survivor perk suggestions

  Technician: cool idea, sad devs combat stealth especcialy so i think this will not be considered, sadly.

  Weaving spiders: i dont like this one, loosing hook states open up for more perks of the same style. undoing killer work is really bad, even when limited to only 1. Same reason why dead hard was so broken.

  Parental guidance: I always find this one interesting and would like use it. But as you say very situational, i think this change is good, no op but also good enough.

  Bite the bullet: yes! i always find kinda useless when only work for others. You can pair with selfcare to hide around corners mid chase, but so niche build and not beneficial. 

  Adrenaline: disagree here, killer needs some win in endgame, if adrenaline can just boost off from hook then killer will loose 100% only because people have this perk. It very good alredy, i dont think it needs buffs.

  Selfcare: I agree that this hurts more than it does help for survivors. But there is a reason for harsh nerf, self heal meta was really bad for balance because game reccourses are managed where you need 2 people for heals so gens dont get done so fast but you get back your health states. I think some things are just community task to teach new players this is not as good as they think.

  Strenght in shadows: you buff survivor perk for compensate to survivor perk buff? did you mix up numbers? if this is true, then actually i have also to disagree, strenght in shadows is almost not used, nerf it does not help.

  Boon, COH: As i was talking about self heal meta, this was the bad one.. please not again XD

  Boon, Dark theory: I see bully squads abuse this, i dont think this is good idea. But i can agree dark theory is underpowered rn. It needs buff. Just not this.

  Boon, Exponential: I dont think this boon needs buff, is underused but not really underpowered. But your suggestions are just a convienient QOL type of buff so it does really not harm. I actually like this

  Boon, Shadow step: Love this! great suggestion!

  Calm spirit: I agree!! Stealth playstyle gets too mutch punishment.

  Empathetic connection: is main issiue this perk has is because it so similar to empathy from claudette, which is just better. You just make this even more simmilar. Not your fault, i think this perk suffer lack of design ideas.

  Any means: so i actually like using this one alot even though it not really strong. But creating pallets should never be a thing when they are broken, even only this party pallets. This is reason why i will not play 2v8 this time.

  Appraisal: Why infinite items? this does more harm than good, actually for both side. You have just people creating items from chests. Not playing the game actually, wasting time and maybe lagging server.

  Autodidact: i dont use this perk ever and never see it, so i dont can say alot about it (not enough experience). Some people like the gamble aspect of it though, but i dont see reason for why it should not recieve buff.

  Breakout: other perk i really like using some time (yes, yui main) Your suggsetion direct counter to this "backpack" build from killers. But very niche build so i dont see problem, creates fun little surprise element just like when killer and survivor actually bring coin offerings one time XD So it cancle each other out.

  Botany Knowledge : i think we just totally disagree on healing aspect at all. Which is fine, sometimes we can not agree. I think botany is in good spot personally. Having heals speed AND medkit is super strong, "we'll make it" with medkit i use all the time.

  Camaraderie: So you make this just map wide? This is way too strong if for whole map. And also only in wiggle face is needed limitation, we can agree on having more range to it though.

  Deception: i agree, i never use this in chase because killer is just close enough for timer to run out. Great for causing noise when you need to lure killer away though.

  Dance with me: same like deception, yes!

  Finesse: lol yes! i actually had struggle to learn this at start because most perks activate when injured, why is this just upside down? I agree it should be when injured.

  Distortion: i never understand why we nerf this at all. Stealth is so niche playstyle why combat it? if you ask me, i would say no nerf at all. But yes, your suggsetion is better than what we get with patch.

  Head on: Turning pure SWF perk into some perk that anyone can use? say less!

  Light footed: I dont think it would even need exhaustion. As i say, i like stealth, i dont know why we combat it. Not like it also hides scratch marks. And yes, you can pair with the one that does, then you use 2 perk slots which is fine.

  MFT: I neither against or for it, would need to see how it works in practice.

  Lucky break: You guess it! i agree XD it never works like it only works first chase. You can clearly see design vision was diffrent than what actually happen in the game.

  No mither: usually im for stealth but alot of overbuff here. From complete silence (we have iron will for this) to basekit UB basicly. I really dont like idea of survivors picking themself up from ground without help. I also dislike nicolas cage perk for that reason even though people dont use alot.

  Poised: I was back and forth about this one. But i find this actually good!

  Reassurence: no keep the downside. This is alredy perk that only is used by SWF, we dont need to buff SWF.

  Repressed alliance: I agree! i like stack perks lol XD

  Self preservation: I just now realize it says SPECIAL attacks, is that from you or is that actually in game? But shows how insignificant this perk is when i dont even know conditions lol. Buff is needed, i agree.

  Rookie spirit: GOOD! very well! it "noob" perk, dont mean it degarotory. But it really used by new players most of time, we all know which gens regress when killer kicks it, but it helps new players to even find the gens, i like this very mutch!

  Saboteur: I will say no to this one but not because i think this buff would be too strong, because i think it dont do anything. If you have saboteur you use it so you can have toolbox for gens. That will not change i think, so it stays same. So no time wasted in changing it (imo)

  Slippery meat: Yeah why not, i see no issiue here :)

  Spine chill: i never use this, even when it was meta. So i dont know enough about it, from your description i dont see issiue.

  Tenacity: i dont like plot twist. But your suggestion for tenacity is fine, even i have to agree tenacity is weak and only works in some swf builds

  We'll make it: Lol, i actually had a laugh. Not because of you though, pls dont get offended. But i imagine safing someone just so you can heal yourself fast.. you run to the survivor, unhook, even when its an unsafe unhook, and then you are gone again XD so you see why i would say this is issiue. I think it pretty strong alredy anyway. 

  Wicked: No, death hook is death hook. There is alredy enough chance the first time, survivors should not be able to unhook in both states. Killer cant have his work be undone all the time. At one point, sacrifice takes place.

  Wiretap: Was this nerfed??? why on earth? yeah give it that buff, lol!

  Weaving spiders

  I think you misunderstood this one, the survivors loose one hook state and when having 0 hooks they are on first hook after completing it and then this perk removes 10charges from each gen.

  Adrenaline - Well that is just an opinion thing, there isn’t much to discuss.

  strength in shadows

  I don’t get why you think I nerf this perk? I buffed the self healing speed from 70%→ 90% to make it twice as much as self care again.

  COH

  What people have to understand is that old COH was 100% or higher, before they removed the self healing part. It would be completly fine with only 45% of self healing. This is very slow and a lot slower than it has been. Also killers would have shattered hope basekit now.

  Empathic connection

  I don’t understand you here. The one from cloudat let’s you see injured survivors auras and yoichi’s let’s other survivors see your aura (now always instead of only when they are injured) and it now also let’s you heal yourself 30% faster, so how are they becoming more similar when they do completely different things?

  Any means necessary

  My idea is not to creat normal pallets rather party pallets from the anniversary. You know what they do?-They break after dropping them.

  Appraisal

  I don’t see the problem and I doubt that it will lead to lags.

  Camaraderie

  Please explain to me why this effect is so strong? I see it as extremely weak.

  No mither

  Well it is difficult to argue about liking and not liking something. I will probably remove the permanent scratch mark hidding from it after more feedback.

  Reassurance

  It is actually used quite a few times by ransoms, but the negatives make it bad. It wouldn’t hurt make it better. I kinda get the feeling you like camping a lot.

  Self preservation

  Sorry wrote that wrong, I have changed it now, thanks for showing it to me

  Wicked

  We just disagree here. I think this perk is far too conditional and that was the effect I suggested in the ptb from the unknown chapter. I don’t think it would be too strong so. It is an anti camping perk again, feels like you don’t want perks that counter camping buffed.

  Wiretap

  It was bugged and nerfed. They made the duration a lot longer, but increased the repair requirement from 33% to 50% to 40%, hopefully soon to 33% again
• Langweilig

  October 5, 2024

  @TinyTenzin said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3813116#Comment_3813116

  "Gift of pain:
  oh ok then its fine imo :D

  "Shattered hope:

  Still i want to do ALL challenges XD so i have to do totem ones also.
  
  

  "Shadowborn:

  oh now i get it, you alredy explain this in original post. I just misread it, my bad. This sounds interesting!
  

  Beast of prey: This is good arguments, you are totally right.

  Deerstalker: It will not be so down bad i think, alredy very good suggestion of yours.

  Undone: I see your reason, yes this make sense. honestly even if some perks get too strong they can still be nerfed later, what i dont like with BHVR right now is they nerf more than they buff. They only focus on perks that need nerf (according to data) rather than give us other perk overhaul. Like they say on the first one, they plan to do more overhauls more regular. Yet they dont. Your suggestions are good attempt at giving other perks some love.

  what i dont like with BHVR right now is they nerf more than they buff. They only focus on perks that need nerf (according to data) rather than give us other perk overhaul. Like they say on the first one, they plan to do more overhauls more regular. Yet they dont. Your suggestions are good attempt at giving other perks some love.

  Completely agree, I hope they change that direction. It is becoming more and more frustrating what and how they nerf things, that either don’t need it or they go way too far.
• Langweilig

  October 5, 2024

  @Ohyakno said:

  Too much self healing and bad powercreep in general.

  Do you want to be more specific if you want to discuss anything?

  To the self healing, they completly overnerfed it.
• Langweilig

  October 5, 2024

  @TinyTenzin said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3813142#Comment_3813142

  and sometimes when they buff, then noone asked for even. Remember huntress? but anyway other topic. And on the survivor perks i think we just strongly disagree

  Yes agree, often they make very questionable changes.

  Did you understand what I meant with weaving spiders?
• Langweilig

  October 5, 2024

  @TinyTenzin said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3813181#Comment_3813181

  I still find it too strong, 10 charges dont compare with whole hook state lossed. And i dont even want to open this pandora box of hook state loosing perks.

  Well I like the idea obviously, because I suggested it. I think to know whether or not it would be too strong, it would need to get tested. I think loosing a hook state is a big drawback, just not as bad as broken for the rest of the trial.
• Xernoton

  October 5, 2024

  @UndeddJester said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3812886#Comment_3812886

  Xernoton? Freddy avatar? What!?

  Regarding OP:

  There is so much there, it'd take me half a day to go through everything. Pretty much agree with Xernonton.

  Stand out to me is the Ace in the Hole Basekit buff. I like that suggestion a lot....

  For a new effect, maybe something like:

  Once per trial, you can trigger this perk while searching/rummaging a chest. The next item pulled from this chest will be ultra rare or have an ultra rare add-on. It's basically a guaranteed: -

  • Medkit: Gel Dressing or Syringe (Pharmacy buff)
  • Toolbox: Brand New Part (Scavenger buff)
  • Flashlight: Odd Bulb (Residual Manifest buff)
  • Map: Iri, gives that sweet totem tracking vs. Devour Hope and Pentimento.
  • Key: Iri, no more broken keys cucking you for hatch.

  I don't think any of this is too strong since you are having to go and find a chest and spend the time opening it.

  For medkits you can't guarantee a syringe, so that atill seems fine.

  For toolboxes with the BNP, it takes more time to find and open the chest and bring it back to the gen than it does to just keep repairing, and you're also running Scavenger which can hurt your repair timings.

  Other items aren't oppressive I feel. I feel this gives Ace in the Hole genuine usefulness in a looter build.

  I played a lot of Freddy recently (I'm taking a little break from the chainsaw-maniac) and we all know that this poor killer deserves a bit of love. I figured I might as well show a little solidarity. 😇

  @Langweilig said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3812886#Comment_3812886

  Thanks for the detailed feedback.

  About the weaker killer argument you bring a lot, shure you have to consider it, but not being able to buff anything because of them would mean you can never buff anything. This is a different problem and they should focus on buffing the weaker killers to make them all a lot more even to the stronger ones.

  Parental guidance: Stunning the killer is already very hard, so I think this one deserves to be better. I mostly play this perk with head on and either the killer sees me immediately again or hears my foot steps and when I finally manage to hide, then the perk runs out to too early. What do you think would be a fair number? (10s would be too little in my opinion)

  Adrenaline: I extremely disliked the adrenaline nerf. What logic is this; We have an endgame perk that activates only once and when you get there it doesn’t activate. Adrenaline was fair before the nerf, just the pick rate was a bit too high, which could make it frustrating sometimes (we also have so many killers perks that are frustrating too). When somebody reaches endgame they should get their heal, that’s the whole purpose of this perk.

  Shadow step: I can understand it, but you can still see pools of blood. I don’t think it hiding footsteps would be too much, but I can’t test it myself to find out, how it plays out.

  Dark theory: I struggled between giving it more haste or giving the killer hindered and I found giving the killer hindered a lot more useful. So you think everything except of the hindered is fine? I think this perk needs to get tested to find out wether it’s to strong or still not good enough with it.

  Head on: Yeah I mistyped it to 30s, I actually meant 3s.

  Any means necessary: Do you really consider party pallets to be that good? Hitting them is quite hard and winning against pallet campers with party pallets was never really hard. With this perk you would have to set them up first and it is only one, that you get after being chased for a long time. You would probably also only get to use one of them per match, it does not sound that good to me to be honest.

  MFT: So let me start with boon dark theory, nobody plays it for 2 reasons the 2% haste is too low and it is a boon. Now we also have far more and more reliable anti exhaustion perks, which need to have some use. The thing is 3% wasn’t super strong either, but yeah there I actually also bring the weak killer argument, which only gutted them. In my opinion the right nerf they should have been reducing the haste or removing the endurance, not making it almost impossible to get the effect. It was one of my favorite perks, because it made playing survivor less about bad ping and learning looping was more fun.

  No mither: Well with this perk, when you are found, you are dead, so getting found more difficult means you are less likely dead (that’s my reason). I agree with you even tho l don’t want to.

  Breakout: I don’t consider it unhealthy to be fair, I tried to remove the frustration I have with this perk a bit, which is the range.

  Reassurance: “Pausing struggle skill checks is fine”- That was already part of the perk. “but there is a reason it can only be used once per hook state. You're not supposed to be on that hook for so long no matter the reason.”- Why not? It supposed to counter camping annd the killer can just keep chasing someone else if he sees the survivor glo and eventually the antiacmp would fill up the bar too. “Increase the activation range so that you can use it without entering the basement instead. That should be fine.”- I did increase the range.

  Repressed alliance: Maybe I made it a bit too fast to get. 40s would be fine, the stacks is the main part I wanted.

  Saboteur: I can understand it. Just to make my reason a bit more clear; When playing it, it always feels like it should have some effect on toolboxes and I wanted a perk that increases sabo speeds for a long time.

  Poised: Maybe I need your help to write it right. My idea was making it work like chucky’s batteries included and keep the old effects like they were. This means whenever in a 9m radius of a completed generator you would be immune to aura reading, leave no scratch marks and leave no pools of blood. So to answer your question it should not be a nerf. The numbers of the new effect can be changed, I just needed something to start with.

  Wiretab: I wanted to place multiple ones and be ble to recharge it while another one is placed.

  We’ll make it does not need- true.

  Spine chill: Well there we both just want different things. I for my part did not play back then, where it was popular, but currently it is completly useless, more useless than calm spirit, which is difficult. I kept the current activation requirements and not the ones from the past, I think the major different things would be; it does not work through walls and when the killer is undetectable and I also didn’t make it as high (it was 10%→ 8%)

  Slippery meat: Shure, but thisway it could also be good in not swfs.

  Should I add to the status effect part luck. I would make luck affect chests for better items.

  Tenacity: I know what you mean and that it activates after some seconds would be a good idea.

  Edit: I forgot distortion: Your idea seems better than what the devs are going to do, so I would take this one as well👍

  I’m looking forward to the killer changes feedback.

  About the weaker killer argument you bring a lot, shure you have to consider it, but not being able to buff anything because of them would mean you can never buff anything.

  Good point. I guess I should have explained a little more thorough. What I meant was more that these perks don't help you as much against the killers that you really struggle with while providing a lot of value against killers that are in a rough spot anyway. I'm not a big fan of perks like that.

  For Parental Guidance I would probably go for 12 seconds. Maybe even only 10. It's a bit hard to predict how strong it would be without a test. 15 seconds just sounds like a little much too me.

  I understand where you're coming from with Adrenaline. But I disagree that the health state should be the main aspect because the counterplay is so awkward and no exactly the most fun for survivors either. Before the nerf you would basically sabotage yourself if you hooked that survivor instead of slugging. The speed boost is more consistent and that's why I would prefer that part to be buffed instead.

  For Dark Theory and Shadow Step I understand that I may be a bit overly cautious. I just thought of a different effect for Dark Theory that would make it stronger but without the extra hindered effect. You could recover your exhaustion while running for as long as you are in range. What do you think?

  Any Means Necessary: I don't consider party pallets to be super strong but one of the most important balancing aspect for killers that don't have very oppressive chase powers are finite resources for survivors. Against most M1 killers (Doctor is an exception) you can simply camp these pallets and play around that while against most S-tier and A-tier killers (Plague without power is another exception) it does nothing. That just doesn't sound good to me.

  The problem with MfT (or rather haste in general) is that it messes with a very core aspect that the game is built around; the speed difference between killer and survivor. 3% isn't much but considering that the killer is only 15% faster than you, that's 20% of this speed difference. So it did have a pretty strong impact. Balancing that will always be a headache, so I think it would be a better option to rework this perk altogether.

  No Mither: I get it. It's hard to think of something that would make this perk slightly less horrible, that would still keep the original effect.

  Breakout: The reason why I consider Breakout unhealthy is that it will never be good or decent if not in a build that is dedicated to make people unhookable. So the counterplay is slugging.

  Saboteur: Maybe it could make toolboxes more efficient instead of making them faster. So you would need like 20% less charges to sabo a hook.

  Reassurance: Whoops, I misread the part about Reassurance's range. My apologies. Maybe the effect could last 10 seconds longer but we saw some people pause their teammate's hook timer for a pretty long time when it was released, which unfortunately has a similar effect to being slugged. You're bored out of your mind because you don't get to play the game. With 70 seconds hook stages and the effect lasting 40 seconds you get quite some time out of that already. 110 seconds is enough for that survivor to get off the hook with no issue, if the killer is actually camping.

  Repressed Alliance: I see. I'm not completely against it having 2 stacks but I think it should come with more time to charge indeed. I can't quite put my finger on it but something tells me that might be a bit off otherwise.

  Poised: Ahh, I see. That would be pretty neat. Although on some maps it would be almost as if you didn't leave any scratch marks at all in end game. That is more of a problem with these maps of course but we could add that it only works when you are on the same floor as that gen.

  Wiretap: What always puts me off a little when it comes to this perk is that killers that kick every gen aren't really affected by it while those that focus more on chases instead of slowdown (such as myself) will be revealed for quite some time. So it's a perk that doesn't work very well against the killer meta but is all the better against off-meta killers, if you catch my drift. I would test it on a PTB to see how it would actually feel though.

  Spine Chill: It used to be 6% faster vaults and it would always be paired with Resilience (so 15% in total). I'll admit, it might be me being biased but I never want to see this return. It was fairly common and it limited perk variety quite a bit.

  For killer perks:

  Insidious: That's actually a pretty neat idea. Although I would add, that Insidious doesn't affect itself. Otherwise a killer would have a reliable way to remove their red stain in chase, which is a part of Ghostface's strength.

  M&A: The Doctor says "Thank you". 😈 I'd take it. It could be a little mean on Doc (escpecially after his most recent buff) but it should be fine.

  Hex: Two Can Play: I'd test it at 3 seconds first because it's a perk that affects less experienced survivors more and it could really mess with them. Kind of like Huntress Lullaby. Otherwise, a good change. I thought about your question and I'm not sure if it works when you use Power Struggle or DS or wiggle out. So my guess is that this might be the reason.

  Bloodhound: I like the aura vision part (although maybe it should slightly increase the time it takes for pools of blood to spawn while in chase, just so it doesn't work like budget wallhacks) but I'm not so sure about healthy survivors bleeding. It could mess with you when you chase someone and they run into a healthy teammate and it would also be a little weird.

  Beast of Prey: I'm not a big fan of removing the red stain permanently. It's part of the killer's skill expression to hide / use it.

  Hex: Ruin: The only reason I am not completely convinced is because that meta doesn't need to return. Then again, with 150% it would probably still remain more off-meta, so it should be fine. Although, personally I liked that it deactivated when a survivor died because that served as an in-built anti tunneling mechanic.

  Call of Brine: I discussed this recently in a different thread and I think regression over time affects solo queue players way more than SWFs because in a SWF someone can and will take over on your gen to stop the regression (except Ruin). So I'm a little on the fence about it.

  Overcharge: Same thing here.

  Deerstalker: My main issue with this perk is that it incentivises slugging, which is already an issue judging by the complaints on the forum. It might be better if that perk got a complete rework.

  Hangman's Trick: A 12 metres range around every hook would cover pretty much the entire map, wouldn't it? So it could end up replacing BBQ, which I'm not 100% sure is a good thing. It might be worth testing it though.

  Hex: Shadowborn: I like it but since the devs haven't figured out what to do with Freddy in Lights Out, I have my doubts this will ever be a thing.

  Batteries Included: Same thing as with MfT. I'm very cautious when it comes to haste. It only working on finished gens added a condition to it that made it more niche, which is why I don't have as much of an issue with it.

  Territorial Imperative: It should be fine in terms of balance but it is a camping perk, which I'm not sure is something that killers should have.

  Whispers: That is a very unique effect and it would definitely help. Since the timer is also quite noticeable it wouldn't work as an auto pilot to always find survivors without having to pit in any effort either, which is good. Although, we would need to discuss how it would work with multiple survivors in range. Would it lead you to the closest survivor or perhaps one survivor with the least hook stages?

  Undone: It's hard to say whether or not this would be a good change. Maybe the devs could provide us with stats for how many skill checks there are in an average game. Just to have an idea how many tokens you would get when nobody messes up a skill check. Also, how about making it 3 stacks on good skill checks and none for greats? I feel like that would allow survivors to counter this perk if they are good enough at hitting great skill checks.

  Septic Touch: That sounds great. That would make it a pretty strong perk. Maybe the exhaustion timer could be slightly lower than the blindness timer. No particular reason other than the fact that survivors couldn't really play around it.

  Thrilling Tremours: Sounds good to me. I can't think of any obvious issues.

  Thanatophobia: I wouldn't want to play against a Nurse or Blight with this perk. That said, I'm not a big fan of this perk either way. The red progress bar just has such a demoralising effect.

  Merciless Storm: This perk can currently only be activated once per gen. How would that work with your version? Would that secondary effect work independently or would it work once as well? Or would these effects be mutually exclusive?

  Overwhelming Presence: Technically survivors are affected by it any time they enter your TR, so this would reveal them each time for 8 seconds. Is this what you meant or did you mean that survivors are only revealed when they use their items? The latter would be fine, the first not so much. Especially if you were to combine it with Insidious.

  Shattered Hope: Sounds like a very good perk actually. I like it and I'm happy to see you considered Pentimento too. 👍🏻

  Unnerving Presence: No. Bad idea. Picture a Doctor or Wesker with Distressing and Unnerving Presence on a small map. Less experienced survivors would lose every game against this combination and it would be a pain on every killer (except Freddy, funnily enough) as well.

  STBFL: I still think it didn't need any nerf at all. The 5% per token were fine and the second condition wasn't an issue either in my opinion. But it seems we are in the minority.

  Gift of Pain: This would probably be fine but I honestly like the current version more. I'd rather the Mangled and Hemorrhage effects being temporary than only getting to use the other effect once per survivor.

  Alien Instinct: Apparently newer players struggle pretty hard with the oblivious status effect, so this would turn this perk into a noob stomper. I don't think that's a great idea.

  Dissolution: I see where you're coming from and I agree that it's quite situational but without the timer it would break pallets even when you hit a survivor during the vault animation. That's not ideal.

  I'm kind of indifferent about the Retribution and Thrill of the Hunt but there might be some nasty builds with these 2 no longer having the risk of being a hex. So I would need to test it to be sure.

  Haunted Grounds: That would make it pretty nasty. Maybe even slightly overtuned in some builds. If you combined it with Undying, this could activate Haunted Grounds up to 4 times. Slap on Devour Hope and your reworked version of Retributation (or Pentimento) as well and you have yourself a really disgusting build.

  Trail of Torment: Agreed. It's not really necessary but it also wouldn't hurt.

  Tinkerer: That would be pre 6.1.0 Tinkerer again. I'm fine with that in theory but the reason they nerfed it back then was to get it out of the meta, which I understand 100%. It had had a very high pick rate for years already. I'm not completely sure how it would hold up today, so I'm on the fence about it.

  For status effects:

  Blindness: That might be problematic on Pig and Pinhead. Other than that I think it would be fine.

  Oblivious: I don't necessarily dislike it but that would defeat the purpose lullabies, wouldn't it? The reason Huntress has a lullaby is because it might be pretty disgusting if she could approach you without warning.

  There are many good ideas in your post and I respect the time and effort you must have spent on this. Here is a cookie for you: 🍪
• CrossTheSholf

  October 5, 2024

  Honestly, Agree or disagree with balances and changes and how good or bad they are…..

  ALL OF THESE ARE INFINITELY MORE INTERESTING THAN ANY RECENT TWEAKS AND COULD SHAKE UP THE META

  Bro cooked
• Langweilig

  October 5, 2024

  @Xernoton said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3813024#Comment_3813024

  I played a lot of Freddy recently (I'm taking a little break from the chainsaw-maniac) and we all know that this poor killer deserves a bit of love. I figured I might as well show a little solidarity. 😇

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3813033#Comment_3813033

  About the weaker killer argument you bring a lot, shure you have to consider it, but not being able to buff anything because of them would mean you can never buff anything.

  Good point. I guess I should have explained a little more thorough. What I meant was more that these perks don't help you as much against the killers that you really struggle with while providing a lot of value against killers that are in a rough spot anyway. I'm not a big fan of perks like that.

  For Parental Guidance I would probably go for 12 seconds. Maybe even only 10. It's a bit hard to predict how strong it would be without a test. 15 seconds just sounds like a little much too me.

  I understand where you're coming from with Adrenaline. But I disagree that the health state should be the main aspect because the counterplay is so awkward and no exactly the most fun for survivors either. Before the nerf you would basically sabotage yourself if you hooked that survivor instead of slugging. The speed boost is more consistent and that's why I would prefer that part to be buffed instead.

  For Dark Theory and Shadow Step I understand that I may be a bit overly cautious. I just thought of a different effect for Dark Theory that would make it stronger but without the extra hindered effect. You could recover your exhaustion while running for as long as you are in range. What do you think?

  Any Means Necessary: I don't consider party pallets to be super strong but one of the most important balancing aspect for killers that don't have very oppressive chase powers are finite resources for survivors. Against most M1 killers (Doctor is an exception) you can simply camp these pallets and play around that while against most S-tier and A-tier killers (Plague without power is another exception) it does nothing. That just doesn't sound good to me.

  The problem with MfT (or rather haste in general) is that it messes with a very core aspect that the game is built around; the speed difference between killer and survivor. 3% isn't much but considering that the killer is only 15% faster than you, that's 20% of this speed difference. So it did have a pretty strong impact. Balancing that will always be a headache, so I think it would be a better option to rework this perk altogether.

  No Mither: I get it. It's hard to think of something that would make this perk slightly less horrible, that would still keep the original effect.

  Breakout: The reason why I consider Breakout unhealthy is that it will never be good or decent if not in a build that is dedicated to make people unhookable. So the counterplay is slugging.

  Saboteur: Maybe it could make toolboxes more efficient instead of making them faster. So you would need like 20% less charges to sabo a hook.

  Reassurance: Whoops, I misread the part about Reassurance's range. My apologies. Maybe the effect could last 10 seconds longer but we saw some people pause their teammate's hook timer for a pretty long time when it was released, which unfortunately has a similar effect to being slugged. You're bored out of your mind because you don't get to play the game. With 70 seconds hook stages and the effect lasting 40 seconds you get quite some time out of that already. 110 seconds is enough for that survivor to get off the hook with no issue, if the killer is actually camping.

  Repressed Alliance: I see. I'm not completely against it having 2 stacks but I think it should come with more time to charge indeed. I can't quite put my finger on it but something tells me that might be a bit off otherwise.

  Poised: Ahh, I see. That would be pretty neat. Although on some maps it would be almost as if you didn't leave any scratch marks at all in end game. That is more of a problem with these maps of course but we could add that it only works when you are on the same floor as that gen.

  Wiretap: What always puts me off a little when it comes to this perk is that killers that kick every gen aren't really affected by it while those that focus more on chases instead of slowdown (such as myself) will be revealed for quite some time. So it's a perk that doesn't work very well against the killer meta but is all the better against off-meta killers, if you catch my drift. I would test it on a PTB to see how it would actually feel though.

  Spine Chill: It used to be 6% faster vaults and it would always be paired with Resilience (so 15% in total). I'll admit, it might be me being biased but I never want to see this return. It was fairly common and it limited perk variety quite a bit.

  For killer perks:

  Insidious: That's actually a pretty neat idea. Although I would add, that Insidious doesn't affect itself. Otherwise a killer would have a reliable way to remove their red stain in chase, which is a part of Ghostface's strength.

  M&A: The Doctor says "Thank you". 😈 I'd take it. It could be a little mean on Doc (escpecially after his most recent buff) but it should be fine.

  Hex: Two Can Play: I'd test it at 3 seconds first because it's a perk that affects less experienced survivors more and it could really mess with them. Kind of like Huntress Lullaby. Otherwise, a good change. I thought about your question and I'm not sure if it works when you use Power Struggle or DS or wiggle out. So my guess is that this might be the reason.

  Bloodhound: I like the aura vision part (although maybe it should slightly increase the time it takes for pools of blood to spawn while in chase, just so it doesn't work like budget wallhacks) but I'm not so sure about healthy survivors bleeding. It could mess with you when you chase someone and they run into a healthy teammate and it would also be a little weird.

  Beast of Prey: I'm not a big fan of removing the red stain permanently. It's part of the killer's skill expression to hide / use it.

  Hex: Ruin: The only reason I am not completely convinced is because that meta doesn't need to return. Then again, with 150% it would probably still remain more off-meta, so it should be fine. Although, personally I liked that it deactivated when a survivor died because that served as an in-built anti tunneling mechanic.

  Call of Brine: I discussed this recently in a different thread and I think regression over time affects solo queue players way more than SWFs because in a SWF someone can and will take over on your gen to stop the regression (except Ruin). So I'm a little on the fence about it.

  Overcharge: Same thing here.

  Deerstalker: My main issue with this perk is that it incentivises slugging, which is already an issue judging by the complaints on the forum. It might be better if that perk got a complete rework.

  Hangman's Trick: A 12 metres range around every hook would cover pretty much the entire map, wouldn't it? So it could end up replacing BBQ, which I'm not 100% sure is a good thing. It might be worth testing it though.

  Hex: Shadowborn: I like it but since the devs haven't figured out what to do with Freddy in Lights Out, I have my doubts this will ever be a thing.

  Batteries Included: Same thing as with MfT. I'm very cautious when it comes to haste. It only working on finished gens added a condition to it that made it more niche, which is why I don't have as much of an issue with it.

  Territorial Imperative: It should be fine in terms of balance but it is a camping perk, which I'm not sure is something that killers should have.

  Whispers: That is a very unique effect and it would definitely help. Since the timer is also quite noticeable it wouldn't work as an auto pilot to always find survivors without having to pit in any effort either, which is good. Although, we would need to discuss how it would work with multiple survivors in range. Would it lead you to the closest survivor or perhaps one survivor with the least hook stages?

  Undone: It's hard to say whether or not this would be a good change. Maybe the devs could provide us with stats for how many skill checks there are in an average game. Just to have an idea how many tokens you would get when nobody messes up a skill check. Also, how about making it 3 stacks on good skill checks and none for greats? I feel like that would allow survivors to counter this perk if they are good enough at hitting great skill checks.

  Septic Touch: That sounds great. That would make it a pretty strong perk. Maybe the exhaustion timer could be slightly lower than the blindness timer. No particular reason other than the fact that survivors couldn't really play around it.

  Thrilling Tremours: Sounds good to me. I can't think of any obvious issues.

  Thanatophobia: I wouldn't want to play against a Nurse or Blight with this perk. That said, I'm not a big fan of this perk either way. The red progress bar just has such a demoralising effect.

  Merciless Storm: This perk can currently only be activated once per gen. How would that work with your version? Would that secondary effect work independently or would it work once as well? Or would these effects be mutually exclusive?

  Overwhelming Presence: Technically survivors are affected by it any time they enter your TR, so this would reveal them each time for 8 seconds. Is this what you meant or did you mean that survivors are only revealed when they use their items? The latter would be fine, the first not so much. Especially if you were to combine it with Insidious.

  Shattered Hope: Sounds like a very good perk actually. I like it and I'm happy to see you considered Pentimento too. 👍🏻

  Unnerving Presence: No. Bad idea. Picture a Doctor or Wesker with Distressing and Unnerving Presence on a small map. Less experienced survivors would lose every game against this combination and it would be a pain on every killer (except Freddy, funnily enough) as well.

  STBFL: I still think it didn't need any nerf at all. The 5% per token were fine and the second condition wasn't an issue either in my opinion. But it seems we are in the minority.

  Gift of Pain: This would probably be fine but I honestly like the current version more. I'd rather the Mangled and Hemorrhage effects being temporary than only getting to use the other effect once per survivor.

  Alien Instinct: Apparently newer players struggle pretty hard with the oblivious status effect, so this would turn this perk into a noob stomper. I don't think that's a great idea.

  Dissolution: I see where you're coming from and I agree that it's quite situational but without the timer it would break pallets even when you hit a survivor during the vault animation. That's not ideal.

  I'm kind of indifferent about the Retribution and Thrill of the Hunt but there might be some nasty builds with these 2 no longer having the risk of being a hex. So I would need to test it to be sure.

  Haunted Grounds: That would make it pretty nasty. Maybe even slightly overtuned in some builds. If you combined it with Undying, this could activate Haunted Grounds up to 4 times. Slap on Devour Hope and your reworked version of Retributation (or Pentimento) as well and you have yourself a really disgusting build.

  Trail of Torment: Agreed. It's not really necessary but it also wouldn't hurt.

  Tinkerer: That would be pre 6.1.0 Tinkerer again. I'm fine with that in theory but the reason they nerfed it back then was to get it out of the meta, which I understand 100%. It had had a very high pick rate for years already. I'm not completely sure how it would hold up today, so I'm on the fence about it.

  For status effects:

  Blindness: That might be problematic on Pig and Pinhead. Other than that I think it would be fine.

  Oblivious: I don't necessarily dislike it but that would defeat the purpose lullabies, wouldn't it? The reason Huntress has a lullaby is because it might be pretty disgusting if she could approach you without warning.

  There are many good ideas in your post and I respect the time and effort you must have spent on this. Here is a cookie for you: 🍪

  Thanks for the cookie. I took really long (a week), it feels good that the work is appreciated.

  Parental Guidance I change it to 12 seconds.

  Dark Theory and Shadow Step: I change the hindered to being able to recover from exhaustion while running. The funny thing is this seems stronger to me than the hindered.

  Any Means necessary: I think you make them look a lot stronger than they would be. Party pallets are really easy to deal with and only getting one after a long time getting chased would be fine.

  MFT: I think haste is difficult to discuss when we argue just about opinions. I for my part found MFT with 3% only on certain killers too much, but generally fine. With it being lower and easier to counter, because of more counter perks, it would be fine.

  No Mither: “I get it. It's hard to think of something that would make this perk slightly less horrible, that would still keep the original effect.” 😅

  Breakout: “The reason why I consider Breakout unhealthy is that it will never be good or decent if not in a build that is dedicated to make people unhookable. So the counterplay is slugging.”

  (Sorry, I can’t removes the lines, I don’t know why.) To the perk; So changing it to 6m would change nothing.

  
  Saboteur: “Maybe it could make toolboxes more efficient instead of making them faster. So you would need like 20% less charges to sabo a hook.” - I take that instead, how would I write that in the perk?

  Reassurance: I think I just leave it with the range buff for now even tho I don’t think hanging on the hook for a while would be that big of a problem.

  Repressed Alliance: “I see. I'm not completely against it having 2 stacks but I think it should come with more time to charge indeed.” - I’ve put it back to 40s like you suggested.

  Poised: “Ahh, I see. That would be pretty neat. Although on some maps it would be almost as if you didn't leave any scratch marks at all in end game. That is more of a problem with these maps of course but we could add that it only works when you are on the same floor as that gen.” - How should I write them.

  Wiretap: “What always puts me off a little when it comes to this perk is that killers that kick every gen aren't really affected by it while those that focus more on chases instead of slowdown (such as myself) will be revealed for quite some time. So it's a perk that doesn't work very well against the killer meta but is all the better against off-meta killers, if you catch my drift. I would test it on a PTB to see how it would actually feel though.” - Testing it first sounds good

  Spine Chill: “It used to be 6% faster vaults”- I change it down to 6% again, I read it wrong in the wiki. There it said something about 10%.

  For killer perks:

  Insidious: “That's actually a pretty neat idea. Although I would add, that Insidious doesn't affect itself.” -But I actually want that as buff.
  “Otherwise a killer would have a reliable way to remove their red stain in chase, which is a part of Ghostface's strength.” Understandable, but I think it would be fine.

  M&A:” The Doctor says "Thank you". 😈 I'd take it. It could be a little mean on Doc (escpecially after his most recent buff) but it should be fine.” - Why will this be mean on doctor. You would not be able to do something new with him.

  Hex: Two Can Play: “I'd test it at 3 seconds first because it's a perk that affects less experienced survivors more and it could really mess with them.” - I make it 3,5s so it is in the middle.
  “I thought about your question and I'm not sure if it works when you use Power Struggle or DS or wiggle out. So my guess is that this might be the reason.” - Should I remove this line would be funny if it works there.

  Bloodhound: “I like the aura vision part (although maybe it should slightly increase the time it takes for pools of blood to spawn while in chase, just so it doesn't work like budget wallhacks)” - Good Point, I will look how to write that.
  “but I'm not so sure about healthy survivors bleeding. It could mess with you when you chase someone and they run into a healthy teammate and it would also be a little weird.” - I think this is fine.

  Beast of Prey: “I'm not a big fan of removing the red stain permanently. It's part of the killer's skill expression to hide / use it.” - It would be a perk like windows, where it would just help out less experienced players and a waste of a perk slot when you just learn. Wasting a perk slot for something you don’t want to learn seems fair to me.

  Hex: Ruin/Overcharge/Call of brine: I think all of them should at least be 150%, then you would decide which one to take around the second effect. Lower than 150% is just too weak. To your points; Ruin: I’m not a fan giving a hex even more deactivation conditions (also when they are good), about soloq: That can be said about everything in this game.

  Deerstalker: “My main issue with this perk is that it incentivises slugging, which is already an issue judging by the complaints on the forum. It might be better if that perk got a complete rework.” - I’m already looking into making the oblivious not permanent, I will change that part, but l will keep it as slugging perk.

  Hangman's Trick: “A 12 metres range around every hook would cover pretty much the entire map, wouldn't it?” - I just wanted to revert it, forgot the range part. It would be 7m (before it got change was 6m)

  Hex: Shadowborn: “I like it but since the devs haven't figured out what to do with Freddy in Lights Out, I have my doubts this will ever be a thing.” - They can just write does not work in dream world into the discription, if they can’t figure it out.

  Batteries Included: Same as with MFT

  Territorial Imperative: camping: We have the anti camp now, so I don’t think it would be that big of a deal and we could just make it deactivate when someone is hooked in the basement

  Whispers: “Would it lead you to the closest survivor or perhaps one survivor with the least hook stages?” - I wanted it to lead you to all survivors at the same time, so the sounds Caine from 2/3/4 places if that is technically possible, which I think it is. If not, then the nearest, but I’m open for every type of prioritizing system.

  Undone: “It's hard to say whether or not this would be a good change. Maybe the devs could provide us with stats for how many skill checks there are in an average game. Just to have an idea how many tokens you would get when nobody messes up a skill check.”- Shure that would have to be considered, but I don’t think Mandy will give us those stats to discuss that.
  “Also, how about making it 3 stacks on good skill checks and none for greats?” - I will change it to only gives stacks on good skill checks.

  Septic Touch: “That sounds great. That would make it a pretty strong perk. Maybe the exhaustion timer could be slightly lower than the blindness timer. No particular reason other than the fact that survivors couldn't really play around it.” Is 25s better or should I go to 22s?

  Thanatophobia: “I wouldn't want to play against a Nurse or Blight with this perk. That said, I'm not a big fan of this perk either way. The red progress bar just has such a demoralising effect.” - Understandable, but since many considered this perk weak at 4,5%, I think it would be fine with 4%, which is 4% less than in live (live:20%;new:16%)

  Merciless Storm: I will probably have to rewrite it. It was meant to only work once when you reach 90% and then you get skill checks until 100% or missing. The new effect has no limit and can only be triggered before 90%, so it does not work against the normal effect, which blocks 10s longer. You can suggest an activation condition for the second effect, I’m currently not so happy about it triggering when sombody gets downed. After it gets activated survivors on generator get 3 continuous skill ckecks, when missed the gen is blocked for 10s.

  Overwhelming Presence: “Technically survivors are affected by it any time they enter your TR, so this would reveal them each time for 8 seconds. Is this what you meant or did you mean that survivors are only revealed when they use their items? The latter would be fine, the first not so much. Especially if you were to combine it with Insidious.” - It was meant when you use your items and when they suffer from the inefficiency, if both things apply it shows the aura, so you Se it affects somebody. How should I write that?

  Unnerving Presence: “No. Bad idea. Picture a Doctor or Wesker with Distressing and Unnerving Presence on a small map. Less experienced survivors would lose every game against this combination and it would be a pain on every killer (except Freddy, funnily enough) as well.” - Well it would now finally do what it is supposed to do. Are there medium difficult skill checks that are the same sice as overcharge, but a bit slower.

  STBFL: “I still think it didn't need any nerf at all. The 5% per token were fine and the second condition wasn't an issue either in my opinion. But it seems we are in the minority.” Agree, but I tried to solve the bigger issue I have with this perk. I can live with the 4%, but loosing tokens by special attacks is terrible.

  Gift of Pain: “This would probably be fine but I honestly like the current version more. I'd rather the Mangled and Hemorrhage effects being temporary than only getting to use the other effect once per survivor.” When reverting it I forgot the part, where the mengeld effect is gone when healed.

  Alien Instinct: “Apparently newer players struggle pretty hard with the oblivious status effect, so this would turn this perk into a noob stomper. I don't think that's a great idea.” - Well shure, but then we would need to remove oblivious completely. I think it would be fine.

  Dissolution: I think this would need to get tested and even when you vault and it breaks instantly, would probably be fine.

  Haunted Grounds: “That would make it pretty nasty. Maybe even slightly overtuned in some builds. If you combined it with Undying, this could activate Haunted Grounds up to 4 times. Slap on Devour Hope and your reworked version of Retributation (or Pentimento) as well and you have yourself a really disgusting build.” - Well it’s on the survivors, should I reduce it to 2 or would that be too bad again.

  For status effects:

  Blindness: “That might be problematic on Pig and Pinhead. Other than that I think it would be fine.” - Blindness is always on a very short timer, so it would be fine and third seal is a hex.

  Oblivious: I don't necessarily dislike it but that would defeat the purpose lullabies, wouldn't it? - It’s a horror game is my final argument and I very dislike that you have such a huge disadvantage with certain killers. Onryo is so negatively affected by it and I want a way to deal with it.
• Langweilig

  October 5, 2024

  @CrossTheSholf said:

  Honestly, Agree or disagree with balances and changes and how good or bad they are…..

  ALL OF THESE ARE INFINITELY MORE INTERESTING THAN ANY RECENT TWEAKS AND COULD SHAKE UP THE META

  Bro cooked

  Thank you
• Langweilig

  October 5, 2024

  @Xernoton I think I changed for the most part where I agreed with you and added a note to some where you and others disagree. I will add more notes and change more depending to feedback.
• Langweilig

  October 6, 2024

  @Xernoton I found stats for undone in a different discussion, where it is 70% Good skill checks, 7% missed, 23% great

  @adsads123123123123 said:

  In what world do you get survivors to miss enough skill checks to get decent value from this perk? Getting survivors to miss 5 skill checks is extremely unlikely and even if you do, you only get 15 percent/seconds of regression and gen block, which is nothing. Tthe perk is even anti-synergy with itself because it won't regress during the block.

  https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/A8Y60ZFKKZGC/image.png

  BHVR already released stats showing only 7% of skill checks are missed. Running skill check perks doesn't change this much. Knowing how few skill checks are missed, surely BHVR should know how useless this perk is?

  https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/HV0530D3PDDQ/image.png

  https://www.reddit.com/r/deadbydaylight/comments/1c29s2i/stats_march_2024/?rdt=37458
• Devil_hit11

  October 7, 2024

  @Langweilig said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3813343#Comment_3813343

  Thank you

  when reading the changes, the killer perk buffs are too good for bvhr for them to do it. strangely enough i don't have much disagree with survivor perk buffs except 1.

  Slippery meat. I am pretty sure that with 8% luck increase with salty jar of lips and up the ante, your nearly guaranteed to unhook yourself. idk how healthy of gameplay it is for a perk to completely invalidate hook timer. right now it is 100% chance to unhook yourself in swf but it only occurs on start of hook timer, so technically killer can still camp. with that change, i think you can unhook yourself in like 3 attempts meaning that killer has to wait at least 30 seconds of the hook timer before survivor even attempts to unhook themselves. i suspect it could be little problematic.

  going back to killer perk, i just don't think BVHR is competent in buffing killer perks beyond gen defence. I'd love to use monitor&abuse or battery included perk but BVHR just seems against any perk giving killer value. they're like… nerfing weave attunement in like next month so good luck on them buffing these suggested perk changes.
• Langweilig

  October 7, 2024

  @Devil_hit11 said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3813361#Comment_3813361

  when reading the changes, the killer perk buffs are too good for bvhr for them to do it. strangely enough i don't have much disagree with survivor perk buffs except 1.

  Slippery meat. I am pretty sure that with 8% luck increase with salty jar of lips and up the ante, your nearly guaranteed to unhook yourself. idk how healthy of gameplay it is for a perk to completely invalidate hook timer. right now it is 100% chance to unhook yourself in swf but it only occurs on start of hook timer, so technically killer can still camp. with that change, i think you can unhook yourself in like 3 attempts meaning that killer has to wait at least 30 seconds of the hook timer before survivor even attempts to unhook themselves. i suspect it could be little problematic.

  going back to killer perk, i just don't think BVHR is competent in buffing killer perks beyond gen defence. I'd love to use monitor&abuse or battery included perk but BVHR just seems against any perk giving killer value. they're like… nerfing weave attunement in like next month so good luck on them buffing these suggested perk changes.

  I’ve at least tried to suggest something. I don’t agree with behaviors way of balancing. In 90% of the cases they don’t even try to make fair changes, they just straight up make things useless and they already did this long before skull merchant.

  Slippery meat: How far do you think I should/could buff it? I want to make it better in soloq in swf it was already really good.

  My idea of balance is strong killer perks against strong survivor perks. Behaviors idea of balancing is weak killer perks against weak survivors perks. I find the second way boring. On the other hand I tried to not go over the top with my suggestions, so behavior would not consider my ideas terrible.

  I consider weave attunement already too weak is the funny thing. Played one match with it and lost because l wanted to get value from it. All survivors just dropped all their items into corners and woop I had 2 perks less.
• Devil_hit11

  October 7, 2024

  @Langweilig said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3814054#Comment_3814054

  I’ve at least tried to suggest something. I don’t agree with behaviors way of balancing. In 90% of the cases they don’t even try to make fair changes, they just straight up make things useless and they already did this long before skull merchant.

  Slippery meat: How far do you think I should/could buff it? I want to make it better in soloq in swf it was already really good.

  My idea of balance is strong killer perks against strong survivor perks. Behaviors idea of balancing is weak killer perks against weak survivors perks. I find the second way boring.

  i think strong perk vs strong perk can lead to unfair occurring situations but these unfair situation are only perceptions of unfairness. for example deliverence in end game, a lot of killer will go salty when you hook a survivor, 2 people escape and the last guy on hook deliverance out of the trial for 4 man escape. i think it is important give yourself wiggle room for what unfair situations you accept as normal gameplay vs unfair situations that are detested. In the other words, What do you enjoy losing against?

  Behaviors idea of balancing is weak killer perks against weak survivors perks. I find the second way boring.

  I think weak vs weak goes into another problem. I am going call this problem functional balance. This is where strong aspect of the game are those that functionally strong by rule and not by number. an example of what i mean by that is like exhaustion perks. exhaustion perk are not strong numerically speaking but they're strong because of the function they provide to the survivor which is making distance. this can be extended let say… second chance perk like endurance where the rule is that a killer that hits a survivor with endurance suffers blade wipe cooldown and speed boost. the strength is in the implicit rules of the game, not the numbers. there is a lot of other examples fall into that category like game-delay perks adding additional flat time which becomes universal metric that all killers can use.

  in my opinion, dumbing the game down by having weak perks makes the functional strong perk rise up and pushes away any numerical type perk to be relevant because any numerical perk becoming relevant will be weakened to not be numerically relevant. it is almost like hidden imbalance if that makes any sense. A lot of dbd is like that. nothing is explicitly imbalanced in your face, it is all like hidden strong. design strong.
• SoGo

  October 7, 2024

  @Langweilig said:

  @SoGo what do you think?

  Thanks for inviting me into this discussion!

  I'm kind of late to this, but these are my thoughts (keep in mind that if I don't mention something, I'm mostly fine with it)

  Appraisal:
  • The changes seem unnecessary. You don't need 20 items per game.

  Autodidact:
  • Yes please, this is great change! This one is good.

  Camaraderie:
  • So, if I understand correctly, you just get 30 extra seconds for doing nothing? The other changes are fine, but the presence of a survivor condition should stay (the range could be bigger though)

  Finesse:
  • I think the cooldown should be reduced slightly instead of removing the healthy condition.

  Distortion:
  • The upcomming effect seems good enough.

  Lightfooted:
  • YES.

  Made for This:
  • I don't think it's a good idea to reintroduce the original MfT, especially after the chaos it caused upon it's first arrival.

  Lucky Break:
  • Nice idea with the perk stopping while walking. I like it.

  Spine Chill:
  • I'd rather see the "killer has to have a clear line of sight" condition removed than reintroducing vaulting boosts.

  Wicked:
  • I like it.

  Insidious:
  • Yes, yes, yes, I want this. We need this in live.

  Bloodhound:
  • Seeing blood pools through walls seems a bit too much. The rest of the changes are great.

  Hex: Ruin/Call of Brine/Overcharge:
  • Yes, yes and yes.
  • For Overbrine, I'd even bump them up to 200% but make them not stack.

  Hex: Shadowborn:
  • A brilliant idea! I love it!

  Territorial Imperative:
  • Great buffs 👍

  Thrilling Tremors:
  • Very nice change!

  Merciless Storm:
  • I don't really get the new effect, nor do I think it's necessary.

  STBFL:
  • Great change, love it!

  Gift of Pain/Mangled:
  • Agree 100%

  Dissolution:
  • Yes, I like this change, this is nice.

  Tinkerer:
  • Oh nice, one of my favorite perks getting buffs! Like it!

  Status effect changes:
  • Uhhh.... I'm not sure here.

  Overall, a lot of nice changes, and a few questionable ones.
• Langweilig

  October 7, 2024

  @Devil_hit11 said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3814074#Comment_3814074

  i think strong perk vs strong perk can lead to unfair occurring situations but these unfair situation are only perceptions of unfairness. for example deliverence in end game, a lot of killer will go salty when you hook a survivor, 2 people escape and the last guy on hook deliverance out of the trial for 4 man escape. i think it is important give yourself wiggle room for what unfair situations you accept as normal gameplay vs unfair situations that are detested. In the other words, What do you enjoy losing against?

  Behaviors idea of balancing is weak killer perks against weak survivors perks. I find the second way boring.

  I think weak vs weak goes into another problem. I am going call this problem functional balance. This is where strong aspect of the game are those that functionally strong by rule and not by number. an example of what i mean by that is like exhaustion perks. exhaustion perk are not strong numerically speaking but they're strong because of the function they provide to the survivor which is making distance. this can be extended let say… second chance perk like endurance where the rule is that a killer that hits a survivor with endurance suffers blade wipe cooldown and speed boost. the strength is in the implicit rules of the game, not the numbers. there is a lot of other examples fall into that category like game-delay perks adding additional flat time which becomes universal metric that all killers can use.

  in my opinion, dumbing the game down by having weak perks makes the functional strong perk rise up and pushes away any numerical type perk to be relevant because any numerical perk becoming relevant will be weakened to not be numerically relevant. it is almost like hidden imbalance if that makes any sense. A lot of dbd is like that. nothing is explicitly imbalanced in your face, it is all like hidden strong. design strong.

  Well it’s on the killer when deliverance happens in the endgame. It’s not unfair if the killer played bad until then. The perk also can have 0 effect.

  I have no idea what to answer at the second part.

  I for my part want strong (not OP) perks that have cool and interesting abilities that are fun to use, currently we only get weak or completly niche perks, that are boring. I consider old DH for distance fun, but I found the invincibility stupid. It should have just been a dash with wich you dodge a hit or make fast a short distance.
• Langweilig

  October 7, 2024

  @SoGo said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3812810#Comment_3812810

  Thanks for inviting me into this discussion!

  I'm kind of late to this, but these are my thoughts (keep in mind that if I don't mention something, I'm mostly fine with it)

  Appraisal:
  • The changes seem unnecessary. You don't need 20 items per game.

  Autodidact:
  • Yes please, this is great change! This one is good.

  Camaraderie:
  • So, if I understand correctly, you just get 30 extra seconds for doing nothing? The other changes are fine, but the presence of a survivor condition should stay (the range could be bigger though)

  Finesse:
  • I think the cooldown should be reduced slightly instead of removing the healthy condition.

  Distortion:
  • The upcomming effect seems good enough.

  Lightfooted:
  • YES.

  Made for This:
  • I don't think it's a good idea to reintroduce the original MfT, especially after the chaos it caused upon it's first arrival.

  Lucky Break:
  • Nice idea with the perk stopping while walking. I like it.

  Spine Chill:
  • I'd rather see the "killer has to have a clear line of sight" condition removed than reintroducing vaulting boosts.

  Wicked:
  • I like it.

  Insidious:
  • Yes, yes, yes, I want this. We need this in live.

  Bloodhound:
  • Seeing blood pools through walls seems a bit too much. The rest of the changes are great.

  Hex: Ruin/Call of Brine/Overcharge:
  • Yes, yes and yes.
  • For Overbrine, I'd even bump them up to 200% but make them not stack.

  Hex: Shadowborn:
  • A brilliant idea! I love it!

  Territorial Imperative:
  • Great buffs 👍

  Thrilling Tremors:
  • Very nice change!

  Merciless Storm:
  • I don't really get the new effect, nor do I think it's necessary.

  STBFL:
  • Great change, love it!

  Gift of Pain/Mangled:
  • Agree 100%

  Dissolution:
  • Yes, I like this change, this is nice.

  Tinkerer:
  • Oh nice, one of my favorite perks getting buffs! Like it!

  Status effect changes:
  • Uhhh.... I'm not sure here.

  Overall, a lot of nice changes, and a few questionable ones.

  Appraisal: Yes but why not? I don’t see anything speaking against it.

  Cameraderie:

  Please explain to me why 30s on your own hook stages would be so strong? I consider this as super bad already and giving it conditions makes it useless.

  MFT:

  It’s not original MFT it is nerfed by 33% from 3% to 2% and now it works while healthy/injured but only when not exhausted. We also have a lot more anti exhaustion perks now than at its release which counter it.

  Bloodhound:

  Without seeing pools of blood through walls it would remain bad. I have made the aura appear delayed by 1s which I think would make it fair, don’t you think? Or should the aura range be smaller?

  Call of brine:

  I don’t think they will ever make perks not stack and they will definitely not return it to 200%, both would be something behavior has never done before.

  Merciless storm:

  My idea was that it blocks gens for 10s if you fail one of three appearing skill checks. Those appear after you down someone but only before a gen has 90% progress. I would like it trigger by something else, ideas?
• Devil_hit11

  October 8, 2024

  @Langweilig said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3814080#Comment_3814080

  Well it’s on the killer when deliverance happens in the endgame. It’s not unfair if the killer played bad until then. The perk also can have 0 effect.

  I have no idea what to answer at the second part.

  I for my part want strong (not OP) perks that have cool and interesting abilities that are fun to use, currently we only get weak or completly niche perks, that are boring. I consider old DH for distance fun, but I found the invincibility stupid. It should have just been a dash with wich you dodge a hit or make fast a short distance.

  Well it’s on the killer when deliverance happens in the endgame. It’s not unfair if the killer played bad until then. The perk also can have 0 effect.

  The problem is that they don't see themselves playing bad. they see as the perk being unfair because it had an impact on the outcome on the match.

  that is what all strong perk are. they're perk that impacted the match and consistently change results. Deliverance into base-kit BT into exit door escape is extremely obvious and very in your face value. You can have perk that silent and very difficult to spot and player might STILL complain because perceive perk gaining value. A great example was Made For This. I bet you over 90% of the player-base couldn't even notice a 3% haste bonus happening but people still complained every single time a survivor got minor value out of the perk because they made to a resource that they shouldn't have. So a perk does not need be showing its value directly for complaints.

  Just any reward at all is complained about. Like just few weeks ago, someone was complaining that Lightweight is overpowered…. because some survivor got value out of Lightweight. when you have player-base that sensitive to any perk value, it is no wonder why every perk is balanced to be have the near worst possible starting balance values. Often, only the functionally strong perks survive in that type of balance environment because they usually end up being strong at base-kit for game related reasons.
• Langweilig

  October 8, 2024

  @Devil_hit11 said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3814152#Comment_3814152

  Well it’s on the killer when deliverance happens in the endgame. It’s not unfair if the killer played bad until then. The perk also can have 0 effect.

  The problem is that they don't see themselves playing bad. they see as the perk being unfair because it had an impact on the outcome on the match.

  that is what all strong perk are. they're perk that impacted the match and consistently change results. Deliverance into base-kit BT into exit door escape is extremely obvious and very in your face value. You can have perk that silent and very difficult to spot and player might STILL complain because perceive perk gaining value. A great example was Made For This. I bet you over 90% of the player-base couldn't even notice a 3% haste bonus happening but people still complained every single time a survivor got minor value out of the perk because they made to a resource that they shouldn't have. So a perk does not need be showing its value directly for complaints.

  Just any reward at all is complained about. Like just few weeks ago, someone was complaining that Lightweight is overpowered…. because some survivor got value out of Lightweight. when you have player-base that sensitive to any perk value, it is no wonder why every perk is balanced to be have the near worst possible starting balance values. Often, only the functionally strong perks survive in that type of balance environment because they usually end up being strong at base-kit for game related reasons.

  Yeah it is a shame, but I blame Behavior for supporting this type of behavior.