Some tips to counter DH
Honestly this feels really pointless, but here i am gonna try and give some tips against DH, if other survivors or killers want to add stuff, pls do.
If you just want to complain and say DH is broken, i will guess that there will be other 7 threads on that topic today, so go fill those.
So, some tips:
- Be sure to always remember if the survivor has used other exhaustion perks, this seem obvious, but the amount of killers that play around DH while having clearly seen other exhaustion is kinda incredible
- Know the difference between a lunge and an instant M1 for pallets. Lunging has a longer starting animation, an instant M1 is faster and has a lingering hitbox. So on pallets, you can either, time a lunge to hit after the DH endurance ends or wait out the endurance and do an instant M1, because of the lingering hitbox you have a bigger chance of getting a pallet trade (you get the down and the pallet)
- You don't always need to wait out DH, instant M1s are impossible to react for survivors (if they don't cheat), this means that if you are "sniffing their butts" you are at an enormous advantage, you dictate when you hit and the survivor has to predict, be unpredictable
- Know your surroundings, if the survivor is in a dead zone or an unsafe pallet you don't need to make risky decisions, let them DH, even let them drop the pallet, they are stuck and can't get way from you, risking and getting stunned or DHd just gives the survivor chances to escape when you weren't in any danger if you just played it safe
- Perks like STBL reduce the distance gain from survivors by almost 25% depending on how many stacks you have, you can even get extra stacks by hitting their DH
- Faking attacks with your animations, survivors look for animation tells for timing DHs, doing some animation to fake them can make survivors try to DH earlier. This could be as simple as moving your camera up and down, faking powers like when predicting fake vaults or really desperate measures like lunging but walking backward just to not hit the survivor
In the end DH is a high risk/ high reward perk. The survivor has full control of the perk but you can dictate how advantageous the situation is, knowing when to play it safe or not. A survivor not being able to pull-off their DH means they got down way earlier than they would if they brought another exhaustion perk.
Hope this can help some people, if you have more tips to add or critique, be free to add. Again, if you just want to complain about DH, you have many other threads you can go to
Comments
Ok. What if I'm tired of trying to counter DH in 2/3 of my chases as killer? It's exhausting.
I already know full and well how to counter Dead Hard. I'm just tired of having to do it every single chase unless I know they're running another Exhaustion perk.
It's not fun.
Countering perks is a part of normal gameplay and most certainly won’t go away if DH is killed
For killers you’ll still have to counter SB (Which you can’t if it’s used effectively) and other exhaustion perks
For survivor they’ve had to counter totem builds (Ruindying) and PR DMS almost every game when they were the respective meta for killers. Even further back they had to play around spirit fury enduring when that was more popular or even getting into a locker/behind a gen vs BBQ
DH is annoying yes but it’s alternatives aren’t much more fun
They are more fun. Because they are not DH. The issue is DH. Not SB or Lithe or whatever else. It's always DH and it's been that way for years. I'm tired of playing around that one perk in particular every single game in a majority of chases. The 1 or 2 weeks where people switched to SB, Lithe and other exhaustion perks were a more than welcome break from DH. It was way more fun playing against these because it didn't feel like you were doing the exact same thing in every chase.
Also at least I can see, if the other perks are in the game. They will happen and I will notice. But DH? Even if it doesn't happen for 5 seconds that survivor could still be holding it. There are people that will time their DHs so well that will always get their 3rd health state. I can wait after them for 1 second, 5 seconds, 10 seconds and longer but they will succeed. I'm tired of that. I'd rather play around 4 perfectly timed SBs than 1 more DH at this point because at least then it would be something else.
I personally don't want the perk gutted, it's a fun concept, and feels reasonable in a lot of scenarios.
But breathing down a survivors neck for 5 seconds every down is not reasonable, it's boring and stupid. Let instant, non lunge m1 attacks ignore Dead Hard, I'll repeat this idea till we get midchapter patch notes.
One thing I'd like to add is that swinging into a Dead Hard isn't automatically going to lose you the game if it happens once and it happens early. By which I mean, if you absolutely detest playing around a Dead Hard that might not even be there... don't. You don't have to, just swing and check if they have it.
Lunging at an injured survivor in their first chase is technically a risk, but the downside isn't game-changing. Plenty of killers can swing into DH and still win, it might be kind of annoying sometimes but it's a perfectly reasonable risk to take if you personally hate the safer route. (Though, lunging in general isn't a great idea outside of pallets/windows.)
You can also take the extra step and bring something like Fearmonger to counter Dead Hard, if you likewise detest playing around it. That has the benefit of working against the other Exhaustion perks too, so it's honestly a pretty solid perk pick at the moment.
Not a bad idea actually and would help stop scripters from guaranteed 3rd health states
That would be enough for me to be happy as it would still work great against killers like nurse and blight were DH feels almost necessary
Actually, the alternatives are infinitely more fun to play against because they require fair setup & don't allow for the survivor to nullify literally any mind-game the killer tries...
The core aspect of Dead by Daylight's gameplay is based on mind-games. It's completely outside the scope of reason to expect people to not feel utterly cheated and flat out pissed off when they outplay a survivor at the core aspect of the game, but then still lose the chase just because the survivor pressed a single button on time.
Frankly, 'Dead Hard' is the same dumb bullshit as 'Armor Lock' was in 'Halo: Reach' and if Bungie couldn't make that nonsense fly then idk what makes BHVR think they can.
If you have to counter those perks every game, it indicates they need to be balanced down.
That is not true. You basically saying you need to nerf everything that is popular. Perks can be meta and not be touched
Say that to all the Meta Perks that Killers lost last year. Your untruths are not sunshine in my face.
So you’d agree that BBQ needs a nerf?
I'm not a douchebag for telling you tha yoru argument about perk changes are not true. Please say it more clear, bHVR is committed to dealing with the meta so that every match isn't the same. Which is good cause those perks are really annoying seeing every single match.
I didn't say it was your fault either. Stop. Please.
I'd like to see stats on how much BBQ is being used and even then, I dont think players have much of a problem with it.
Like I don't see at least 5 threads a day on BBQ, Dead Hard on the other hand... the people are not happy.
Ahh, i am sorry for calling you a douchebag. But saying that i am telling sweet lie really triggered me for some reason, i am sorry.
I don't think perks should be nerfed for being overused or popular, i would never ask for perks like Pain Res, Jolt, BBQ or lethal to be nerfed even tho they are on the top 5 most used perks for killers.
Either way, i shouldn't have reacted like that. I hope we can put this water under the bridge.
Fair enough, I should also have called your claim untrue instead to distance you from the discussion.
I think @Phasmamain wants BBQ nerfed tho. so those perks can get nerfed next patch for all we know right now.
This List is poor advice and it might work in writing, but not in reality and it wont make Killers like this perk or have fun.
In the end DH is a press a button, get server to validate, you get distance AND you take a hit and the Killer gets nothing is slowed, plus t-bags and death threats in post game chat. I think its absolutely horrific that bHVR would give such a Powerful Perk to Survivors who then get to use that min 8 or more times in a match with 4 Survivors. There is no other perk for Survivors that wastes the Killers time that much.
The best solution would be to cut the benefits and keep what Survivors like about the Perk, like I discussed here:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/366849/why-i-think-bhvr-should-cut-dh-in-two-again
How do you tell knights guards to do all that baiting and faking? How do you fake a demon strike as Oni?
List is fine for m1 plays, but there's more to the game than just basic m1's. Killers are having there whole powers negated at the click of a button.
I mean server validating can work in the survivor can also work in your favor, it happens a lot ping, lag or delay can create a lot of issues.
What do you want a survivor to do if the killer is laggy and they get hits while vaulting, dropping pallets or grabs that from your perspective were unfair?
Yeah, sure that might be bad. They can dodge the lobby if their ping is bad. but mine is always at like 37 but the Survivors have 4 people each with individual Server Validation shenanigans and favors and unfavors and it always ends up getting them out and away from me again and again. But despite this it still always happens even after the Survivor spins around 5 times as I try to bait it out. I'm tired of it. Please just give me an exhaustion TR I don't want to deal with this perk being so powerful every game anymore.
Never said i did. My point was that even when bbq was used nearly every match not many wanted nerfed even though you had to play around it every match
Yes and it got nerfed despite that and now you don't see it so often? Are you not happy about that? Then why complain?
Fearmonger
All i want is to have a small delay before you get endurance so that if i'm right behind them and i don't see the animation i can swing and know i'll hit them.
I don't care that dead hard would still work 100% on pallets, that's fine no different then Lithe always working on windows.
i just want to be able to swing when the survivor makes the mistake of letting me be in point blank range. Having to wait all the time can really kill the otherwise high speed tempo this game has
Just give killers a perk that turns any attack into Deep Wounds.
It's stupid as hell that Victor attaches himself to healthy survivors but if they're injured they can dodge his attack, force him into cooldown and kick him every 40s.
Quick and simple for the DH waiting Harolds over here. Just quick M1 without waiting, survivors can't even react. You'll be surprised for how effective it is.
I had a match against a 4 DH squad.
DH is annoying, but not really matter to me.
But 2 survivors body block, then double DH to force 4 weapon hit cool down when carrying a survivor to hook is another story, when old DH made weapon miss cool down which was shorter. Not that I want the old DH more though.
Feel like STBFL is a must to counter DH body block.
I'd sooner play a hundred games against SB/Lithe than one more against DH.
DH is worse than uncounterable; it actively takes away gameplay options from the Killer. Suddenly you can't lunge or use your power anymore for fear of triggering Schrodinger's Dead Hard.
If it was uncounterable, it'd be just another Exhaustion perk and the main complaint about it would be just how strong it can be at its job. But as it is now, the insidious thing about it being "counterable" is that it's arguably not even a good thing. Killers just wanna swing when they've caught the Survivor, not wait behind them sniffing their butt.
Yeah STBFL is a main stay in my builds so it doesn’t affect me. It is better at bodyblocking and altruism but if anything I like that. Those squads are fun to fight to me
You forgot the only REAL counter for that perk: hitting the unhooked survivor and tunnel him (deep wound = no dead hard)
Good God you are right, if I just tunnel more. Ill never have to deal with Dead Hard .(so much atleast)
My god, you're right. Why didn't I think of that sooner?
I'm sure survivors won't mind me tunneling out the first person I see every game.
I counter dh more way more often than I get hit by it. People don't have the patience to not press e when a blight brushes past them in a rush. The only time I get hit by it is when the survivor manages to make me flick for it. But it's become boring and tedious to play against again. I feel exactly how I did before 6.1.0 again, bored of going against the exact same perk on repeat. Also the whole sniffing the survivors neck thing shouldn't exist.
That's a reasonable statement if something hasn't been meta for 90% of the games lifespan. Meta shakeups at the cost of gutting the most popular perks will increase this games lifespan and player base retention. Although in any other game is just called a patch.
Don't see killers complain about sniffing survivors asses when they want a grab a healthy survivor while they are face camping, that mind is even more obnoxious and thats just a base kit feature of every killer.
So if DH goes because you don't want to sniff survivor's butts, then that stupid mind game also has to go
Wow...just wow. You Killers really just have an excuse for everything. I love that it's okay for Killers to make all these terrible suggestions for Survivors to try to counter their stuff, but when legitimately good advice is given to you, every excuse under the sun comes out. This game really just makes yall miserable people.
Ok I haven't done that in a year anyway lmao.
They are not excuses DH validation is just really bad.
Why don't you drop the "Us vs. Them" attitude, you don't hear Killers defending Eruption as fair or balanced.
Every time someone does this to me it’s always the obsession so I never even get my stacks :(
Hehehe. Yes we do.
Were a few counter suggestions killers gave.
And yet there is not even one such thread on the front page. The closest I could find to anyone decrying the Eruption nerf was in Feedback, and that was suggesting a less-harsh nerf, rather than a reversion. And that one got ratio'd hard.
We were talking about counters no? Not if said counter is funny for the killer or the survivor... this is (sadly) the best way to counter that perk, you like it or not...
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/360543/blight-and-dh-for-those-who-want-to-learn-blight-or-are-new-to-him#latest
Tips for playing blight vs dh
There were months of fighting about Eruption. Until Eruption was confirmed nerf, survivors success and gone silent since they dont need to complain anymore.
Front page topic are the newest post or the most recent comment. Topic usually has a life of a few days. Which of course those topics drown to later pages.
Eruption nerfed to oblivion, though because of Overcharge, Call of Brine were buffed, revert it to previous version still make Eruption greatly used.
Well that's where the argument ends. Don't make me pull up the topics please...
O no.
I think Eruption was fine as it was from both sides.
Fun to counter, and just barely passable at slowing down SWF that are determined to be annoying when used by a killer.
It absolutely destroyed players that refused to engage with it. And that was fun.
I also like Dead Hard as it is, but I'm not going to waste my time fighting with this community...
Both waiting for DH and waiting for an unhook grab are bad mechanics in my book.
And if someone mentions endgame, I don't care. If you hook the survivor too close to a gate, haven't gotten anyone killed, and don't even force any other survivors out, it's on you if they get a rescue and a 4 man out.